Re: [bolger] Robertson (Square drive) Screws
Where are you getting torx stainless?
HJ
Bill Kreamer wrote:
HJ
Bill Kreamer wrote:
> Okay guys you got me. I guess I have to limit what I said to the situation
> where one is re-using a screw, as I am wont to do. You can strip a long
> Robertson screw on the second shot, whereas a similar Torx screw will go in
> and out many times, no problem. Both Robertson and Torx screws are
> available as stainless deck screws. You often get a free Torx bit in the
> box of screws. It's at the bottom, I guess to prevent guys like me from
> filching them. Yeah, I need to get a clutch drill soon. Seen any deals?
> What's your model preference?
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
really use it themselves!
Talk about your boat porn. How about tool porn? This one has me
drooling:-)
http://www.mcfeelys.com/product.asp?ProductID=MK-X400
Nels
>but
> Last year I bought a 14.4 Makita hammer driver from McFeeley's and
> Makita threw in a 3/8 drill motor, 2 batteries and charger. Not free
> I've been very happy and driving drywall screws into very dry, 5 yrold
> framing in the housed that never gets done. ClydeI like the way McFeeley's talk about their stuff - like they actually
>
really use it themselves!
Talk about your boat porn. How about tool porn? This one has me
drooling:-)
http://www.mcfeelys.com/product.asp?ProductID=MK-X400
Nels
Last year I bought a 14.4 Makita hammer driver from McFeeley's and
Makita threw in a 3/8 drill motor, 2 batteries and charger. Not free but
I've been very happy and driving drywall screws into very dry, 5 yr old
framing in the housed that never gets done. Clyde
Nels wrote:
Makita threw in a 3/8 drill motor, 2 batteries and charger. Not free but
I've been very happy and driving drywall screws into very dry, 5 yr old
framing in the housed that never gets done. Clyde
Nels wrote:
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>>Wicked Bill,
>>
>>We use our Makita 14.4 volt drill drivers & impact drivers every
>>
>>
>day.
>
>
>>There are many good brands out there. Bosch, Panasonic, DeWalt,
>>PorterCable, etc. Some are even having good luck with the lower-
>>
>>
>priced
>
>
>>Ryobi (for lighter or less frequent use, I'd imagine).
>>
>>
>
>
>
>Dang David...
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
Once again I have to agree;-) I have tried several cordless drills
over the years and my original Makita was the most reliable and user
friendly in my experience.
If buying new be sure to purchase one with Ni-MH batteries.They
don't tend to develop internal shorts like the old Ni-Cads.
"Nickel Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) do not contain any heavy metals such
as lead, mercury, or cadmium, and they can be recharged about 1,000
times. Ni-MH batteries having high mAh (milliamp hour) ratings will
last longest. Rechargeable batteries will save you money over time
and can help to reduce household waste."
The best boatbuilding robertson screws are sold by McFeely's for
reasons given at their website:
http://www.mcfeelys.com/subcat.asp?subcat=20.1.5.8
They also have cordless driver kits.
I have no affiliation whatsoever with McFeely's just sharing what I
have heard. I am a Lee Valley fan myself:-)
Nels
>day.
> Wicked Bill,
>
> We use our Makita 14.4 volt drill drivers & impact drivers every
> There are many good brands out there. Bosch, Panasonic, DeWalt,priced
> PorterCable, etc. Some are even having good luck with the lower-
> Ryobi (for lighter or less frequent use, I'd imagine).Dang David...
>
Once again I have to agree;-) I have tried several cordless drills
over the years and my original Makita was the most reliable and user
friendly in my experience.
If buying new be sure to purchase one with Ni-MH batteries.They
don't tend to develop internal shorts like the old Ni-Cads.
"Nickel Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) do not contain any heavy metals such
as lead, mercury, or cadmium, and they can be recharged about 1,000
times. Ni-MH batteries having high mAh (milliamp hour) ratings will
last longest. Rechargeable batteries will save you money over time
and can help to reduce household waste."
The best boatbuilding robertson screws are sold by McFeely's for
reasons given at their website:
http://www.mcfeelys.com/subcat.asp?subcat=20.1.5.8
They also have cordless driver kits.
I have no affiliation whatsoever with McFeely's just sharing what I
have heard. I am a Lee Valley fan myself:-)
Nels
I really like my 18 volt Ryobi now that they offer replacement batteries at
a reasonable price. That said, my wife's 9.6 volt Ryobi is much lighter and
easier to handle, and my 18 volt Harbor Freight unit does the job despite
its rough looks.
Get two batteries and the charger.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
a reasonable price. That said, my wife's 9.6 volt Ryobi is much lighter and
easier to handle, and my 18 volt Harbor Freight unit does the job despite
its rough looks.
Get two batteries and the charger.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...>
<snip>
>Yeah, I need to get a clutch drill soon. Seen any deals?
> What's your model preference?
> Full Tilt Bill <wicked grin>
Wicked Bill,
We use our Makita 14.4 volt drill drivers & impact drivers every day.
There are many good brands out there. Bosch, Panasonic, DeWalt,
PorterCable, etc. Some are even having good luck with the lower-priced
Ryobi (for lighter or less frequent use, I'd imagine).
Since you're presumably buying for your personal use, there's one
thing I'd highly recommend. Heft the dang thing... with a battery in
it. There are several perfectly good ones out there that felt either
too fat, or too skinny to me... or too heavy, or badly balanced,. Look
for good balance, and a good fit in your hand. Keep in mind that a
minor feeling of misfit, or too much weight, will multiply
exponentially as you drive larger quantities of fasteners. Hello sore
muscles, achy arms, and/or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
I've been happy, so far, with the stuff I've gotten from McFeely's.
BTW, keep in mind that Stainless screws are gonna be softer, and strip
out easier than your typical hardened steel screw. Silicon Bronze,
even more so. Solid Brass, more than that. Also, folks are gonna find
much easier access to square drives, in a much larger selection, than
either torx or butterfly drives. For those, one has to track down your
own local industrial fasteners distributor. Some of them won't sell
retail, or in smaller (small boat) quantities.
Happy Shopping (and screwing),
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"It's much easier to be critical than to be correct" -- Benjamin Disraeli
*************
We use our Makita 14.4 volt drill drivers & impact drivers every day.
There are many good brands out there. Bosch, Panasonic, DeWalt,
PorterCable, etc. Some are even having good luck with the lower-priced
Ryobi (for lighter or less frequent use, I'd imagine).
Since you're presumably buying for your personal use, there's one
thing I'd highly recommend. Heft the dang thing... with a battery in
it. There are several perfectly good ones out there that felt either
too fat, or too skinny to me... or too heavy, or badly balanced,. Look
for good balance, and a good fit in your hand. Keep in mind that a
minor feeling of misfit, or too much weight, will multiply
exponentially as you drive larger quantities of fasteners. Hello sore
muscles, achy arms, and/or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
I've been happy, so far, with the stuff I've gotten from McFeely's.
BTW, keep in mind that Stainless screws are gonna be softer, and strip
out easier than your typical hardened steel screw. Silicon Bronze,
even more so. Solid Brass, more than that. Also, folks are gonna find
much easier access to square drives, in a much larger selection, than
either torx or butterfly drives. For those, one has to track down your
own local industrial fasteners distributor. Some of them won't sell
retail, or in smaller (small boat) quantities.
Happy Shopping (and screwing),
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"It's much easier to be critical than to be correct" -- Benjamin Disraeli
*************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...> wrote:
>
> Harry, Robertson and Torx screws are available as stainless deck screws.
> You often get a free Torx bit in the box of screws. It's at the
bottom, I guess to prevent guys like me from filching them. Yeah, I
need to get a clutch drill soon. Seen any deals? What's your model
preference?
>
> Full Tilt Bill <wicked grin>
Harry, Robertson and Torx screws are available as stainless deck screws.
You often get a free Torx bit in the box of screws. It's at the bottom, I
guess to prevent guys like me from filching them. Yeah, I need to get a
clutch drill soon. Seen any deals? What's your model preference?
Full Tilt Bill <wicked grin>
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Harry James
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 1:37 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
I have had better luck with the square drives over phillips and I have
had very good results with the torx drives. The smaller ones will last
through a couple hundred screws, the larger ones seem to never fail. The
problem is finding marine grade screws with torx heads. You got a source?
HJ
Bill Kreamer wrote:
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You often get a free Torx bit in the box of screws. It's at the bottom, I
guess to prevent guys like me from filching them. Yeah, I need to get a
clutch drill soon. Seen any deals? What's your model preference?
Full Tilt Bill <wicked grin>
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Harry James
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 1:37 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
I have had better luck with the square drives over phillips and I have
had very good results with the torx drives. The smaller ones will last
through a couple hundred screws, the larger ones seem to never fail. The
problem is finding marine grade screws with torx heads. You got a source?
HJ
Bill Kreamer wrote:
> Has anyone stripped Robertson square drive screws as often as me? Iswitched
> to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.Bolger rules!!!
>
> - Bill
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Nels
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:28 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
>> My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
>> learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
>> screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
>> are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
>> Micro you are building.
>>
>>
> With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter
> learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
> screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
>
> I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
> advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
> the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
> old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.
>
>http://www.mcfeelys.com/
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
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Okay guys you got me. I guess I have to limit what I said to the situation
where one is re-using a screw, as I am wont to do. You can strip a long
Robertson screw on the second shot, whereas a similar Torx screw will go in
and out many times, no problem. Both Robertson and Torx screws are
available as stainless deck screws. You often get a free Torx bit in the
box of screws. It's at the bottom, I guess to prevent guys like me from
filching them. Yeah, I need to get a clutch drill soon. Seen any deals?
What's your model preference?
Full Tilt Bill <wicked grin>
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Nels
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:14 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Robertson (Square drive) Screws
where one is re-using a screw, as I am wont to do. You can strip a long
Robertson screw on the second shot, whereas a similar Torx screw will go in
and out many times, no problem. Both Robertson and Torx screws are
available as stainless deck screws. You often get a free Torx bit in the
box of screws. It's at the bottom, I guess to prevent guys like me from
filching them. Yeah, I need to get a clutch drill soon. Seen any deals?
What's your model preference?
Full Tilt Bill <wicked grin>
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Nels
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:14 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Robertson (Square drive) Screws
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I own an Architectural Millwork firm. We use predominantly #2
> Robertson drive screws. I've never seen anyone strip one out. I
have
> to say, that would take a bit of talent (did you ever have the
> nickname FullTiltBill?) <Grin>. We do use mostly cordless drills
with
> adjustable clutch settings to avoid such mishaps. I've never used
Torx
> screws in any quantity - are they (as they appear) significantly
more
> resistant to stripping out the heads?
>
> Cheers,
> David Graybeal
> Portland, OR.
>
> "Moderation in all things, especially moderation"
>
> *********************
I have never had the experience of ever stripping out a Robertson
screw when driving it by hand in over 30 years of using them.
I highly recommend your method David, in using a driver with an
adjustable clutch, because it is possible if driving into hardwood,
with no pilot hole, to strip out the head - or twist it off - with a
powerful driver.
Two other possible errors I have witnessed, is using a smaller size
bit to drive a size larger screw and using a driver bit that is worn
out so the edges are rounded. If the bit won't hold the screw by
itself it is either the wrong bit or it is worn out.
I have only seen torx screws that are meant for metal work. Was not
aware of them being available for use in woodwork. Not that I see
any advantage in them.
Nels
Bolger rules!!!
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- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
not imagine ever wanting to go back to any other type of screw
head.To add to what Nels mentions about over head screw driving with
one hand,it is important to use the correct sized Robertson screw
driver and genuine Robertson screws not just some generic square
head screw driver and square headed screws.The real
Robertsons have nice deep pockets with crisp corners which makes for
authorative driving and backing out of these screws,especially
those one-handed-out-stretched-on-your-belly-with-arms-bent-down-
into-some-hell-hole-of-a-tight-engine-compartment-with-no-light-to-
see-the-phukin-screw-while-the-crew-asks-whether-it-is-noraml-for-so-
much-water-to-be-in-the-engine-compartment-in-the-first-place-and-
can-you-fix-it-before-we-drift-into-the-rocks-just-over-there-while-
the-crews-pet-Beagle-keeps-trying-to-get-between-your-legs-to-sniff-
your-crotch screws.
What? You've never had that type of screw before? You ain't lived
yet my friend!
Sincerely,
Peter"I'll take an even 13" Lenihan, who can't say or sing enough
the praises for Robertson drive
>> With all due respect David, I think it is about time yourdaughter
> learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat andphillips
> screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".With a robbie you can drive a screw into
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
> the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with thoseother
> old fashioned kind:-)Hear!Hear! I have used these exclusively on several boats and can
not imagine ever wanting to go back to any other type of screw
head.To add to what Nels mentions about over head screw driving with
one hand,it is important to use the correct sized Robertson screw
driver and genuine Robertson screws not just some generic square
head screw driver and square headed screws.The real
Robertsons have nice deep pockets with crisp corners which makes for
authorative driving and backing out of these screws,especially
those one-handed-out-stretched-on-your-belly-with-arms-bent-down-
into-some-hell-hole-of-a-tight-engine-compartment-with-no-light-to-
see-the-phukin-screw-while-the-crew-asks-whether-it-is-noraml-for-so-
much-water-to-be-in-the-engine-compartment-in-the-first-place-and-
can-you-fix-it-before-we-drift-into-the-rocks-just-over-there-while-
the-crews-pet-Beagle-keeps-trying-to-get-between-your-legs-to-sniff-
your-crotch screws.
What? You've never had that type of screw before? You ain't lived
yet my friend!
Sincerely,
Peter"I'll take an even 13" Lenihan, who can't say or sing enough
the praises for Robertson drive
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
not imagine ever wanting to go back to any other type of screw
head.To add to what Nels mentions about over head screw driving with
one hand,it is important to use the correct sized Robertson screw
driver and genuine Robertson screws not just some generic square
head screw driver and square headed screws.The real
Robertsons have nice deep pockets with crisp corners which makes for
authorative driving and backing out of these screws,especially
those one-handed-out-stretched-on-your-belly-with-arms-bent-down-
into-some-hell-hole-of-a-tight-engine-compartment-with-no-light-to-
see-the-phukin-screw-while-the-crew-asks-whether-it-is-noraml-for-so-
much-water-to-be-in-the-engine-compartment-in-the-first-place-and-
can-you-fix-it-before-we-drift-into-the-rocks-just-over-there-while-
the-crews-pet-Beagle-keeps-trying-to-get-between-your-legs-to-sniff-
your-crotch screws.
What? You've never had that type of screw before? You ain't lived
yet my friend!
Sincerely,
Peter"I'll take an even 13" Lenihan, who can't say or sing enough
the praises for Robertson drive
>> With all due respect David, I think it is about time yourdaughter
> learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat andphillips
> screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".With a robbie you can drive a screw into
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
> the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with thoseother
> old fashioned kind:-)Hear!Hear! I have used these exclusively on several boats and can
not imagine ever wanting to go back to any other type of screw
head.To add to what Nels mentions about over head screw driving with
one hand,it is important to use the correct sized Robertson screw
driver and genuine Robertson screws not just some generic square
head screw driver and square headed screws.The real
Robertsons have nice deep pockets with crisp corners which makes for
authorative driving and backing out of these screws,especially
those one-handed-out-stretched-on-your-belly-with-arms-bent-down-
into-some-hell-hole-of-a-tight-engine-compartment-with-no-light-to-
see-the-phukin-screw-while-the-crew-asks-whether-it-is-noraml-for-so-
much-water-to-be-in-the-engine-compartment-in-the-first-place-and-
can-you-fix-it-before-we-drift-into-the-rocks-just-over-there-while-
the-crews-pet-Beagle-keeps-trying-to-get-between-your-legs-to-sniff-
your-crotch screws.
What? You've never had that type of screw before? You ain't lived
yet my friend!
Sincerely,
Peter"I'll take an even 13" Lenihan, who can't say or sing enough
the praises for Robertson drive
I have had better luck with the square drives over phillips and I have
had very good results with the torx drives. The smaller ones will last
through a couple hundred screws, the larger ones seem to never fail. The
problem is finding marine grade screws with torx heads. You got a source?
HJ
Bill Kreamer wrote:
had very good results with the torx drives. The smaller ones will last
through a couple hundred screws, the larger ones seem to never fail. The
problem is finding marine grade screws with torx heads. You got a source?
HJ
Bill Kreamer wrote:
> Has anyone stripped Robertson square drive screws as often as me? I switched
> to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.
>
> - Bill
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Nels
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:28 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
>> My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
>> learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
>> screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
>> are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
>> Micro you are building.
>>
>>
> With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter
> learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
> screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
>
> I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
> advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
> the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
> old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.
>
>http://www.mcfeelys.com/
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I'm presuming you're talking about the head. I've stripped enough to
say some things.
1. type and quality of the material used for the screw i.e. bronze
obviously strips easier than stainless. Also consider the metalurgical
aspect of the screw - some are "softer" than others.
2. size/shape of screw head opening vs size/shape of screwdriver head.
3. material you're using the screw in e.g. screw into a knot that
stops the screw from turning.
4. how much "wheaties" you and your cordless are using.
All things considered, when I've matched the right screw to the right
job and used the right head, used pilots or some other pre-drilling
and watched the feed and speed I've never stripped one.
Bryant - who sometimes doesn't know his own strength.
say some things.
1. type and quality of the material used for the screw i.e. bronze
obviously strips easier than stainless. Also consider the metalurgical
aspect of the screw - some are "softer" than others.
2. size/shape of screw head opening vs size/shape of screwdriver head.
3. material you're using the screw in e.g. screw into a knot that
stops the screw from turning.
4. how much "wheaties" you and your cordless are using.
All things considered, when I've matched the right screw to the right
job and used the right head, used pilots or some other pre-drilling
and watched the feed and speed I've never stripped one.
Bryant - who sometimes doesn't know his own strength.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone stripped Robertson square drive screws as often as me? I
switched
> to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.
>
> - Bill
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> Nels
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:28 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@> wrote:
> >
> > My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
> > learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
> > screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
> > are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
> > Micro you are building.
> >
> With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter
> learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
> screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
>
> I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
> advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
> the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
> old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.
>
>http://www.mcfeelys.com/
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
I have an idea, it depends on the maker or supplier of the square drive
screws. I've had some stainless ones that striped so fast that I
probably threw half away and then another batch from McFeeley wich
worked pretty well in putting down decking and assorted chores. If they
fail the first time try another supplir. Clyde
David wrote:
screws. I've had some stainless ones that striped so fast that I
probably threw half away and then another batch from McFeeley wich
worked pretty well in putting down decking and assorted chores. If they
fail the first time try another supplir. Clyde
David wrote:
>>to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>- Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "David" <arbordg@...> wrote:
screw when driving it by hand in over 30 years of using them.
I highly recommend your method David, in using a driver with an
adjustable clutch, because it is possible if driving into hardwood,
with no pilot hole, to strip out the head - or twist it off - with a
powerful driver.
Two other possible errors I have witnessed, is using a smaller size
bit to drive a size larger screw and using a driver bit that is worn
out so the edges are rounded. If the bit won't hold the screw by
itself it is either the wrong bit or it is worn out.
I have only seen torx screws that are meant for metal work. Was not
aware of them being available for use in woodwork. Not that I see
any advantage in them.
Nels
>have
> Bill,
>
> I own an Architectural Millwork firm. We use predominantly #2
> Robertson drive screws. I've never seen anyone strip one out. I
> to say, that would take a bit of talent (did you ever have thewith
> nickname FullTiltBill?) <Grin>. We do use mostly cordless drills
> adjustable clutch settings to avoid such mishaps. I've never usedTorx
> screws in any quantity - are they (as they appear) significantlymore
> resistant to stripping out the heads?I have never had the experience of ever stripping out a Robertson
>
> Cheers,
> David Graybeal
> Portland, OR.
>
> "Moderation in all things, especially moderation"
>
> *********************
screw when driving it by hand in over 30 years of using them.
I highly recommend your method David, in using a driver with an
adjustable clutch, because it is possible if driving into hardwood,
with no pilot hole, to strip out the head - or twist it off - with a
powerful driver.
Two other possible errors I have witnessed, is using a smaller size
bit to drive a size larger screw and using a driver bit that is worn
out so the edges are rounded. If the bit won't hold the screw by
itself it is either the wrong bit or it is worn out.
I have only seen torx screws that are meant for metal work. Was not
aware of them being available for use in woodwork. Not that I see
any advantage in them.
Nels
Bill,
I own an Architectural Millwork firm. We use predominantly #2
Robertson drive screws. I've never seen anyone strip one out. I have
to say, that would take a bit of talent (did you ever have the
nickname FullTiltBill?) <Grin>. We do use mostly cordless drills with
adjustable clutch settings to avoid such mishaps. I've never used Torx
screws in any quantity - are they (as they appear) significantly more
resistant to stripping out the heads?
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Moderation in all things, especially moderation"
*********************
I own an Architectural Millwork firm. We use predominantly #2
Robertson drive screws. I've never seen anyone strip one out. I have
to say, that would take a bit of talent (did you ever have the
nickname FullTiltBill?) <Grin>. We do use mostly cordless drills with
adjustable clutch settings to avoid such mishaps. I've never used Torx
screws in any quantity - are they (as they appear) significantly more
resistant to stripping out the heads?
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR.
"Moderation in all things, especially moderation"
*********************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Kreamer" <kreamer@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone stripped Robertson square drive screws as often as me? I
switched
> to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.
>
> - Bill
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> Nels
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:28 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@> wrote:
> >
> > My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
> > learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
> > screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
> > are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
> > Micro you are building.
> >
> With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter
> learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
> screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
>
> I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
> advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
> the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
> old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.
>
>http://www.mcfeelys.com/
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
>
>
> Boating
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Boating+safety&w1=Boating+safety&w2=Boa
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> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "bolger
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger> "
> on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
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> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Has anyone stripped Robertson square drive screws as often as me? I switched
to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.
- Bill
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Nels
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:28 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
to Torx ("star drive") and I am now a happy camper.
- Bill
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Nels
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:28 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
> learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
> screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
> are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
> Micro you are building.
>
With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter
learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.
http://www.mcfeelys.com/
Nels
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.
http://www.mcfeelys.com/
Nels
>With all due respect David, I think it is about time your daughter
> My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
> learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
> screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
> are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
> Micro you are building.
>
learned "the facts of life". Put away those silly flat and phillips
screwdrivers and instead get her a set of "Robbies".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver
I believe they are called "square head" screws in the States and often
advertised through McFeely's. With a robbie you can drive a screw into
the ceiling, or at an angle, using one hand. Try that with those other
old fashioned kind:-) Also work perfectly when using a cordless drill.
http://www.mcfeelys.com/
Nels
My daughter is my boatbuilding partner. She is now 11 years old and
learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
Micro you are building.
Our most recent project is the construction of a cruising sail for
our 13' 6" Holt Enterprise! We ordered a kit from Sailrite, and have
been having a ball putting it together. So far, we have learned:
Patience, practice, sail shape, sewing machine maintenance, how to
recover from mistakes, and the joy and essential nature of teamwork
and cooperation. I really recommend working with Sailrite, they are
a fantastic company.
She is just as excited as I am about our upcoming order for
Birdwather II plans. We know that we can build every single
component of this boat. (well, maybe not the trailer, or motor. we
will leave that to the experts).
Happy building, include your kids.
David Jost
learned the difference between a phillips head and a flat head
screwdriver by assisting with the Micro. This is essential when you
are hanging upside down and inside out under the cockpit deck of the
Micro you are building.
Our most recent project is the construction of a cruising sail for
our 13' 6" Holt Enterprise! We ordered a kit from Sailrite, and have
been having a ball putting it together. So far, we have learned:
Patience, practice, sail shape, sewing machine maintenance, how to
recover from mistakes, and the joy and essential nature of teamwork
and cooperation. I really recommend working with Sailrite, they are
a fantastic company.
She is just as excited as I am about our upcoming order for
Birdwather II plans. We know that we can build every single
component of this boat. (well, maybe not the trailer, or motor. we
will leave that to the experts).
Happy building, include your kids.
David Jost
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
etc, and maybe a lot more women would be boatbuilders.
I suspect nature is at work as well as nurture, however, as anyone who
has a son and a daughter both can probably attest.
I recall that in grade 7 you could choose shop class or home economics
(cooking etc). In shop the male/female split was about 85/15; the
reverse in home ec. I still remember being kind of surprised at how
many girls wanted to take shop...I guess I assumed they would just all
go to home ec. I took shop, but I learned to cook too, later on!
Mike T
>Why not a daughter? Dad can teach her all about tools and woodworking
> I've read that every man should do three things in his life:
>
> Have a son.
etc, and maybe a lot more women would be boatbuilders.
I suspect nature is at work as well as nurture, however, as anyone who
has a son and a daughter both can probably attest.
I recall that in grade 7 you could choose shop class or home economics
(cooking etc). In shop the male/female split was about 85/15; the
reverse in home ec. I still remember being kind of surprised at how
many girls wanted to take shop...I guess I assumed they would just all
go to home ec. I took shop, but I learned to cook too, later on!
Mike T
> Build a house.
> Build a boat.
>
>[snip]
> Patrick
>
> I'm not sure that interest, per se, is the limiting factor. ManyI think part of the problem (well, it's problem for me, see below) is
> women who I've spoken with have just never had it occur to them that
> they could successfully build a boat in a reasonable amount of time,
> effort, and skill.
that women just don't get trained in taking things apart, or putting
things together, as kids. When I was growing up, my Dad was always
either fixing or building something, and I got the idea that that was
what I should do too, though it took me a while to get to building
anything besides models.
I've tried to interest my girlfriend in building boats, but even
though she's got a kayak kit about halfway done, with my help, she
just can't sustain interest in it and the thing has been languishing.
She's supportive of my interests though, and has been just as
interested as me in finding a house with decent workshop space
(nothing kills a project faster than freezing your $%#$ off under a
leaky carport roof in Portland, OR).
In fact though I've known a fair number of crafty women, I've really
only known one who would work on larger-scale projects (bigger than
paintings or jewelry) for fun.
Bill
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@...> wrote:
>
> Patrick Crockett:
> > It appears that it may be the case that men are slightly
> > more likely to be interested in some other creative endeavors
> > (artists, authors, musicians)
>
> Not in my experience -- the artsy people I know are overwhelmingly
> skewed toward women.
>
> > The difference in
> > interest in boatbuilding is way too large to be due to culture, I
> > think.
>
> I'm not so sure about that. Interest in building boats seems fairly
> similar between men and women among people who are interested and
> willing to work with power tools, but there's a strong sense in the
> dominant culture that power tools are a "guy thing" and that women who
> use them are weird and vaguely threatening. Interest in owning boats
> or other vehicles for recreation -- especially in owning more than
> one! -- does seem to skew more toward men, which may further
> contribute to the phenomenon.
>
> There also may be a generational factor at work: many boatbuilding
> people I've met have tended to skew older than the median, and younger
> women are a bit less hamstrung by pre-feminist gender roles.
>
> > So -- what gives? What is it about building boats that interests
> > men but not women?
>
> I'm not sure that interest, per se, is the limiting factor. Many
> women who I've spoken with have just never had it occur to them that
> they could successfully build a boat in a reasonable amount of time,
> effort, and skill. I've gotten several female friends involved in
> building boats of their own (or repairing existing boats) simply by
> describing how easy instant boat and stitch-and-glue building methods
> can be.
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>
Patrick Crockett:
skewed toward women.
similar between men and women among people who are interested and
willing to work with power tools, but there's a strong sense in the
dominant culture that power tools are a "guy thing" and that women who
use them are weird and vaguely threatening. Interest in owning boats
or other vehicles for recreation -- especially in owning more than
one! -- does seem to skew more toward men, which may further
contribute to the phenomenon.
There also may be a generational factor at work: many boatbuilding
people I've met have tended to skew older than the median, and younger
women are a bit less hamstrung by pre-feminist gender roles.
women who I've spoken with have just never had it occur to them that
they could successfully build a boat in a reasonable amount of time,
effort, and skill. I've gotten several female friends involved in
building boats of their own (or repairing existing boats) simply by
describing how easy instant boat and stitch-and-glue building methods
can be.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> It appears that it may be the case that men are slightlyNot in my experience -- the artsy people I know are overwhelmingly
> more likely to be interested in some other creative endeavors
> (artists, authors, musicians)
skewed toward women.
> The difference inI'm not so sure about that. Interest in building boats seems fairly
> interest in boatbuilding is way too large to be due to culture, I
> think.
similar between men and women among people who are interested and
willing to work with power tools, but there's a strong sense in the
dominant culture that power tools are a "guy thing" and that women who
use them are weird and vaguely threatening. Interest in owning boats
or other vehicles for recreation -- especially in owning more than
one! -- does seem to skew more toward men, which may further
contribute to the phenomenon.
There also may be a generational factor at work: many boatbuilding
people I've met have tended to skew older than the median, and younger
women are a bit less hamstrung by pre-feminist gender roles.
> So -- what gives? What is it about building boats that interestsI'm not sure that interest, per se, is the limiting factor. Many
> men but not women?
women who I've spoken with have just never had it occur to them that
they could successfully build a boat in a reasonable amount of time,
effort, and skill. I've gotten several female friends involved in
building boats of their own (or repairing existing boats) simply by
describing how easy instant boat and stitch-and-glue building methods
can be.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Hi Susan, been waiting for you to get into this discussion!
Comboat
Comboat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Davis" <futabachan@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:36 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: psychology of boatbuilding
> Craig:
> > >So -- what gives? What is it about building boats that interests
> > >men but not women?
> >
> > The possibilty of (a) getting wet and (b) tilting, if it's a sail
> > boat.
>
> FWIW, I've encountered that reaction from more men that I have women.
> And if that were a valid reason, it would just push construction of
> paddling or power boats instead of sailboats....
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Craig:
And if that were a valid reason, it would just push construction of
paddling or power boats instead of sailboats....
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
> >So -- what gives? What is it about building boats that interestsFWIW, I've encountered that reaction from more men that I have women.
> >men but not women?
>
> The possibilty of (a) getting wet and (b) tilting, if it's a sail
> boat.
And if that were a valid reason, it would just push construction of
paddling or power boats instead of sailboats....
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
I don't know, maybe its a Pacific NW thing, but I know a lot of women
boatbuilders. Granted I know more male ones but not at the ratios you gave.
HJ
James Greene wrote:
boatbuilders. Granted I know more male ones but not at the ratios you gave.
HJ
James Greene wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:26:26 -0500, Patrick Crockett wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>> So -- what gives? What is it about building boats that interests men but
>> not women?
>>
>
> It gives us a place to get away from them, both in the workshop and on the water ... :)
>
> James Greene
>
>
>
>
>
>
Very well said, Peter. You're a philosopher at heart? Or maybe your
new first mate has been teaching you about the wonderful mysteries of
women that most men can't begin to understand because it isn't beer,
sports or fishing? :=)
Peter Lenihan wrote:
new first mate has been teaching you about the wonderful mysteries of
women that most men can't begin to understand because it isn't beer,
sports or fishing? :=)
Peter Lenihan wrote:
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@n...> wrote:
>
>
>>>So -- what gives? What is it about building boats that interests
>>>
>>>
>men but
>
>
>>not women?
>>
>>Patrick
>>
>>
>
>We are doers,builders and self actualize from the outside in.Women,God
>bless them all,are recievers,caregivers and self actualize from the
>inside out.
>
>My knee jerk .02 cents worth..............
>
>
>
>Sincerely,
>
>
>Peter Lenihan,who is mighty darned pleased that there are NOT too many
>women boatbuilders out there for fear that I would not be able to
>impress them any longer with my own crazy building projects :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>So -- what gives? What is it about building boats that interests men butThe possibilty of (a) getting wet and (b) tilting, if it's a sail boat.
>not women?
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@n...> wrote:
bless them all,are recievers,caregivers and self actualize from the
inside out.
My knee jerk .02 cents worth..............
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who is mighty darned pleased that there are NOT too many
women boatbuilders out there for fear that I would not be able to
impress them any longer with my own crazy building projects :-)
>> So -- what gives? What is it about building boats that interestsmen but
> not women?We are doers,builders and self actualize from the outside in.Women,God
>
> Patrick
bless them all,are recievers,caregivers and self actualize from the
inside out.
My knee jerk .02 cents worth..............
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who is mighty darned pleased that there are NOT too many
women boatbuilders out there for fear that I would not be able to
impress them any longer with my own crazy building projects :-)
>
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:26:26 -0500, Patrick Crockett wrote:
James Greene
> So -- what gives? What is it about building boats that interests men butIt gives us a place to get away from them, both in the workshop and on the water ... :)
> not women?
James Greene
I've read that every man should do three things in his life:
Have a son.
Build a house.
Build a boat.
I have observed that perhaps 1/3 of all men have deramed about building
a boat someday. OTOH, it seems that very few women are even slightly
interested. It appears that it may be the case that men are slightly
more likely to be interested in some other creative endeavors (artists,
authors, musicians) but if these differences exist, they are small
enough to potentially be due to cultural influences. The difference in
interest in boatbuilding is way too large to be due to culture, I think.
So -- what gives? What is it about building boats that interests men but
not women?
Patrick
Have a son.
Build a house.
Build a boat.
I have observed that perhaps 1/3 of all men have deramed about building
a boat someday. OTOH, it seems that very few women are even slightly
interested. It appears that it may be the case that men are slightly
more likely to be interested in some other creative endeavors (artists,
authors, musicians) but if these differences exist, they are small
enough to potentially be due to cultural influences. The difference in
interest in boatbuilding is way too large to be due to culture, I think.
So -- what gives? What is it about building boats that interests men but
not women?
Patrick