Re: Black Skimmer rig?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
with more shear forwards). It was done for Mike O'Brien, now of
WoodenBoat magazine, back in the '70s. Apparently the keth rig was
bigger, but Boler felt that the yawl had enough sail area and better
balance. The first Boat Design Quarterly, still available through
www.woodenboat.com, has the details.
Bill
>Actually the original cartoon had a cat-ketch rig (and a higher bow,
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bcd5194" <reenbrad@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Anyone know if a Black Skimmer has ever been rigged as a cat-ketch?
with more shear forwards). It was done for Mike O'Brien, now of
WoodenBoat magazine, back in the '70s. Apparently the keth rig was
bigger, but Boler felt that the yawl had enough sail area and better
balance. The first Boat Design Quarterly, still available through
www.woodenboat.com, has the details.
Bill
> > Curious because it seems this rig is very popular with boats of this
> > type, such as the Norwalk Island boats, B & B Princess series,
> Munroe's
> > famous Egret, etc. Seems with the shorter masts and very little
> > rigging required it would be easier to trailer, set up, and take
> down,
> > though probably not as fast, I guess? Just a thought as I'm
> > considering this boat as my first full size build.
> >
> > Thought and comments appreciated,
> > Brad
> >
>
> Hi Brad,
>
> The best thing to do is send a fax to PCB&F and get their
> recommendations but I am sure you already know that and are doing some
> preliminary enquiries.
>
> A second source of information is "103 Small Boat Rigs" which gives
> details on the different rigs. Seems Phil is not a huge fan of the
> ketch rig, but prefers the schooner, for reasons he discusses. He is
> not crazy about the mast and associated lines in the middle of the
> cockpit. The advantage of the yawl is that the mizzen can be off-set
> and out of the way as well as act as an air rudder. An advantage for
> the schooner rig is that the mast is further foreward and the
> mainsail gives more drive than a ketch mizzen would.
>
> I expect the option PCB&F prefers is Martha Jane with the wonderful
> lugsail on a short mast that folds up easily for transport. Nice big
> open cockpit and a pilothouse option with much more room inside, than
> Skimmer.
>
> Also consider Seabird 86. If you can get by with the 3 ft draft. I
> love the looks of that boat and there are three choices of rig too!
> (Four with the junk - not a favorite of PCB either:-)
>
>http://ca.geocities.com/nohnpages/original.html
>
> I would also love to see a smaller simpler version of Le Cabotin, with
> the single off-centerboard rather than leeboards.
>
> Nels
>
My boat Wolftrap had the same rig as Black skimmer. I liked the rig for
week ending and such but because Wolftrap had a very large rig it was a
handful for cruising. I changed it over to what everyone called a
schooner but it was actually a ketch rig The shorter mast was the for
mast as in a schooner but was gaff rigged and was the larger sail area.
The mizzen was a Bermuda shape and though taller was smaller in area. So
I'd say it was really a ketch. It had the same sail area as the original
rig but was slower to windward by a fair amount. Beam reach and off the
wind she would pick up her skirts and go. The real bonus came in when I
set the mizzen staysail. At six knots she would jump to seven and in a
good breeze would stagger along at nine knots. The mizzen stay sail can
be handled from the cock pit even when single handing. The schooner or
ketch rig can be balanced on all points of sail in all conditions and is
I feel the best rigs going for single handing. Most who sail sloops or
catboats will make a claim that they are simpler and there fore easier
to handle. I say the only reason to go to a more complicated ketch or
schooner is the complication makes her easer to handle. Otherwise why
use the rig it's not faster over all ??
Doug
Nels wrote:
week ending and such but because Wolftrap had a very large rig it was a
handful for cruising. I changed it over to what everyone called a
schooner but it was actually a ketch rig The shorter mast was the for
mast as in a schooner but was gaff rigged and was the larger sail area.
The mizzen was a Bermuda shape and though taller was smaller in area. So
I'd say it was really a ketch. It had the same sail area as the original
rig but was slower to windward by a fair amount. Beam reach and off the
wind she would pick up her skirts and go. The real bonus came in when I
set the mizzen staysail. At six knots she would jump to seven and in a
good breeze would stagger along at nine knots. The mizzen stay sail can
be handled from the cock pit even when single handing. The schooner or
ketch rig can be balanced on all points of sail in all conditions and is
I feel the best rigs going for single handing. Most who sail sloops or
catboats will make a claim that they are simpler and there fore easier
to handle. I say the only reason to go to a more complicated ketch or
schooner is the complication makes her easer to handle. Otherwise why
use the rig it's not faster over all ??
Doug
Nels wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bcd5194" <reenbrad@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Anyone know if a Black Skimmer has ever been rigged as a cat-ketch?
> > Curious because it seems this rig is very popular with boats of this
> > type, such as the Norwalk Island boats, B & B Princess series,
> Munroe's
> > famous Egret, etc. Seems with the shorter masts and very little
> > rigging required it would be easier to trailer, set up, and take
> down,
> > though probably not as fast, I guess? Just a thought as I'm
> > considering this boat as my first full size build.
> >
> > Thought and comments appreciated,
> > Brad
> >
>
> Hi Brad,
>
> The best thing to do is send a fax to PCB&F and get their
> recommendations but I am sure you already know that and are doing some
> preliminary enquiries.
>
> A second source of information is "103 Small Boat Rigs" which gives
> details on the different rigs. Seems Phil is not a huge fan of the
> ketch rig, but prefers the schooner, for reasons he discusses. He is
> not crazy about the mast and associated lines in the middle of the
> cockpit. The advantage of the yawl is that the mizzen can be off-set
> and out of the way as well as act as an air rudder. An advantage for
> the schooner rig is that the mast is further foreward and the
> mainsail gives more drive than a ketch mizzen would.
>
> I expect the option PCB&F prefers is Martha Jane with the wonderful
> lugsail on a short mast that folds up easily for transport. Nice big
> open cockpit and a pilothouse option with much more room inside, than
> Skimmer.
>
> Also consider Seabird 86. If you can get by with the 3 ft draft. I
> love the looks of that boat and there are three choices of rig too!
> (Four with the junk - not a favorite of PCB either:-)
>
>http://ca.geocities.com/nohnpages/original.html
>
> I would also love to see a smaller simpler version of Le Cabotin, with
> the single off-centerboard rather than leeboards.
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
>
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bcd5194" <reenbrad@...> wrote:
The best thing to do is send a fax to PCB&F and get their
recommendations but I am sure you already know that and are doing some
preliminary enquiries.
A second source of information is "103 Small Boat Rigs" which gives
details on the different rigs. Seems Phil is not a huge fan of the
ketch rig, but prefers the schooner, for reasons he discusses. He is
not crazy about the mast and associated lines in the middle of the
cockpit. The advantage of the yawl is that the mizzen can be off-set
and out of the way as well as act as an air rudder. An advantage for
the schooner rig is that the mast is further foreward and the
mainsail gives more drive than a ketch mizzen would.
I expect the option PCB&F prefers is Martha Jane with the wonderful
lugsail on a short mast that folds up easily for transport. Nice big
open cockpit and a pilothouse option with much more room inside, than
Skimmer.
Also consider Seabird 86. If you can get by with the 3 ft draft. I
love the looks of that boat and there are three choices of rig too!
(Four with the junk - not a favorite of PCB either:-)
http://ca.geocities.com/nohnpages/original.html
I would also love to see a smaller simpler version of Le Cabotin, with
the single off-centerboard rather than leeboards.
Nels
>Munroe's
> Hi all,
>
> Anyone know if a Black Skimmer has ever been rigged as a cat-ketch?
> Curious because it seems this rig is very popular with boats of this
> type, such as the Norwalk Island boats, B & B Princess series,
> famous Egret, etc. Seems with the shorter masts and very littledown,
> rigging required it would be easier to trailer, set up, and take
> though probably not as fast, I guess? Just a thought as I'mHi Brad,
> considering this boat as my first full size build.
>
> Thought and comments appreciated,
> Brad
>
The best thing to do is send a fax to PCB&F and get their
recommendations but I am sure you already know that and are doing some
preliminary enquiries.
A second source of information is "103 Small Boat Rigs" which gives
details on the different rigs. Seems Phil is not a huge fan of the
ketch rig, but prefers the schooner, for reasons he discusses. He is
not crazy about the mast and associated lines in the middle of the
cockpit. The advantage of the yawl is that the mizzen can be off-set
and out of the way as well as act as an air rudder. An advantage for
the schooner rig is that the mast is further foreward and the
mainsail gives more drive than a ketch mizzen would.
I expect the option PCB&F prefers is Martha Jane with the wonderful
lugsail on a short mast that folds up easily for transport. Nice big
open cockpit and a pilothouse option with much more room inside, than
Skimmer.
Also consider Seabird 86. If you can get by with the 3 ft draft. I
love the looks of that boat and there are three choices of rig too!
(Four with the junk - not a favorite of PCB either:-)
http://ca.geocities.com/nohnpages/original.html
I would also love to see a smaller simpler version of Le Cabotin, with
the single off-centerboard rather than leeboards.
Nels
Hi all,
Anyone know if a Black Skimmer has ever been rigged as a cat-ketch?
Curious because it seems this rig is very popular with boats of this
type, such as the Norwalk Island boats, B & B Princess series, Munroe's
famous Egret, etc. Seems with the shorter masts and very little
rigging required it would be easier to trailer, set up, and take down,
though probably not as fast, I guess? Just a thought as I'm
considering this boat as my first full size build.
Thought and comments appreciated,
Brad
Anyone know if a Black Skimmer has ever been rigged as a cat-ketch?
Curious because it seems this rig is very popular with boats of this
type, such as the Norwalk Island boats, B & B Princess series, Munroe's
famous Egret, etc. Seems with the shorter masts and very little
rigging required it would be easier to trailer, set up, and take down,
though probably not as fast, I guess? Just a thought as I'm
considering this boat as my first full size build.
Thought and comments appreciated,
Brad