Re: Chebacco Outboard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@...> wrote:
taken the time to figure that one out.
either inline or opposed. That is why several four cylinder designs
have counterbalance shafts. The shaft acts as an extra four pistons.
The technical reasons are complicated - has to do with something
called unresolved force couples.
Even this is a partial patch because it resolves the mechanical
balance but not the coefficient of fluctuation caused by the time
delay between cylinder firings.
The surprising thing is that an inline six is a near perfect balance.
Large truck diesels are all inline six for this reason. It crams the
biggest displacement into the least number of cylinders. Diesels,
unlike petrol engines, improve in efficiency with larger piston
displacements.
Doug
> I notice that at least one of the modern automotive four cylindersactually has a second "balance shaft" to mitigate this, but I've not
taken the time to figure that one out.
>A four cylinder engine is actually a very poorly balanced design,
either inline or opposed. That is why several four cylinder designs
have counterbalance shafts. The shaft acts as an extra four pistons.
The technical reasons are complicated - has to do with something
called unresolved force couples.
Even this is a partial patch because it resolves the mechanical
balance but not the coefficient of fluctuation caused by the time
delay between cylinder firings.
The surprising thing is that an inline six is a near perfect balance.
Large truck diesels are all inline six for this reason. It crams the
biggest displacement into the least number of cylinders. Diesels,
unlike petrol engines, improve in efficiency with larger piston
displacements.
Doug
Had a Dodge Mighty Max PU with a motor made by Isuzu that was set up
that way one more thing to go wrong and funky as hoh you set the
timeing of it.
Jon
that way one more thing to go wrong and funky as hoh you set the
timeing of it.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@...> wrote:
>
> Just stumbled on this thread. Back in High School when I was car
crazy, I
> was taught that for smoothness, one needed a 60 degree V8, an
inline six, or
> a horizontal four -- four strokes of course. We're talking about
the
> overlap of the power strokes, not a mechanical balance issue, but
there's
> also the economics of how the crankshaft is forged. I notice that
at least
> one of the modern automotive four cylinders actually has a
second "balance
> shaft" to mitigate this, but I've not taken the time to figure that
one out.
> Anyway, none of the fixes go with lightness and economy.
>
> Roger
> derbyrm@...
>http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
Just stumbled on this thread. Back in High School when I was car crazy, I
was taught that for smoothness, one needed a 60 degree V8, an inline six, or
a horizontal four -- four strokes of course. We're talking about the
overlap of the power strokes, not a mechanical balance issue, but there's
also the economics of how the crankshaft is forged. I notice that at least
one of the modern automotive four cylinders actually has a second "balance
shaft" to mitigate this, but I've not taken the time to figure that one out.
Anyway, none of the fixes go with lightness and economy.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
was taught that for smoothness, one needed a 60 degree V8, an inline six, or
a horizontal four -- four strokes of course. We're talking about the
overlap of the power strokes, not a mechanical balance issue, but there's
also the economics of how the crankshaft is forged. I notice that at least
one of the modern automotive four cylinders actually has a second "balance
shaft" to mitigate this, but I've not taken the time to figure that one out.
Anyway, none of the fixes go with lightness and economy.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...>
>A single cylinder four-stroke engine fires once every other revolution, a
> two cylinder two-stroke fires twice each revolution. The two cylinder
> two-stroke wins the smoothness prize hands down. Four-strokes have more
> mechanical noise because of the valve train, but exhaust noise isn't any
> louder than a two-stroke, and can be quieter -- they just have different
> exhaust notes, two-strokes sound buzzier. I've been real happy with the
> two four-stroke outboards I own -- an air-cooled Honda 2 horse and a
> Nissan/Tohatsu five horse. I've come to love the Honda for it's
> dependability, economy and the way it will chug along sweetly at near idle
> speeds. The sound and vibration from that little honey at low speeds are
> really quite endearing. :o)
>
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:42:33 -0800, Paul Lefebvrewrote:
>
>> ...
>> about the 'Evinrude weedless Lightwin' - his 1953 was a horizontally
>> opposed
>> twin (in a 3hp!)- weighed 32 lbs or something. He goes on about how
>> superior
>> it is to the modern 4strokes in terms of smoothness, but later says how
>> embarassed he is to take it out in public cuz of the pollution factor...
>>
>> Before reading that, I just assumed the 4strokes were pretty smooth and
>> quiet.
>> ...
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
> I cannot help thinking that the people with motor boats miss a great deal.
> If they would only keep to rowboats or canoes, and use oar or paddle...
> they would get infinitely more benefit than by having their work done for
> them by gasoline. <Theodore Roosevelt>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
I'm not an engine guy. I don't even think about them, except to marvel
that they start when supplied with fuel, air and a pull on the cord. I
was interested in Robb White's comment in the last MAIB that there are
complications in designing a two cylinder, four stroke engine. The
geometry does not work out well for the two cylinders to fire at a
regular interval. Or, if the cylinders do fire evenly, then the
geometry and balance of the engine and crankshaft is weird.
Apparently, some of these engines fire with sort of one, two, pause,
one, two, pause rhythm.
So for small engines, accepting the vibration of one cylinder makes
sense for a 4-stroke.
that they start when supplied with fuel, air and a pull on the cord. I
was interested in Robb White's comment in the last MAIB that there are
complications in designing a two cylinder, four stroke engine. The
geometry does not work out well for the two cylinders to fire at a
regular interval. Or, if the cylinders do fire evenly, then the
geometry and balance of the engine and crankshaft is weird.
Apparently, some of these engines fire with sort of one, two, pause,
one, two, pause rhythm.
So for small engines, accepting the vibration of one cylinder makes
sense for a 4-stroke.
A single cylinder four-stroke engine fires once every other revolution, a
two cylinder two-stroke fires twice each revolution. The two cylinder
two-stroke wins the smoothness prize hands down. Four-strokes have more
mechanical noise because of the valve train, but exhaust noise isn't any
louder than a two-stroke, and can be quieter -- they just have different
exhaust notes, two-strokes sound buzzier. I've been real happy with the
two four-stroke outboards I own -- an air-cooled Honda 2 horse and a
Nissan/Tohatsu five horse. I've come to love the Honda for it's
dependability, economy and the way it will chug along sweetly at near idle
speeds. The sound and vibration from that little honey at low speeds are
really quite endearing. :o)
two cylinder two-stroke fires twice each revolution. The two cylinder
two-stroke wins the smoothness prize hands down. Four-strokes have more
mechanical noise because of the valve train, but exhaust noise isn't any
louder than a two-stroke, and can be quieter -- they just have different
exhaust notes, two-strokes sound buzzier. I've been real happy with the
two four-stroke outboards I own -- an air-cooled Honda 2 horse and a
Nissan/Tohatsu five horse. I've come to love the Honda for it's
dependability, economy and the way it will chug along sweetly at near idle
speeds. The sound and vibration from that little honey at low speeds are
really quite endearing. :o)
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:42:33 -0800, Paul Lefebvrewrote:
> ...
> about the 'Evinrude weedless Lightwin' - his 1953 was a horizontally
> opposed
> twin (in a 3hp!)- weighed 32 lbs or something. He goes on about how
> superior
> it is to the modern 4strokes in terms of smoothness, but later says how
> embarassed he is to take it out in public cuz of the pollution factor...
>
> Before reading that, I just assumed the 4strokes were pretty smooth and
> quiet.
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
I cannot help thinking that the people with motor boats miss a great deal.
If they would only keep to rowboats or canoes, and use oar or paddle...
they would get infinitely more benefit than by having their work done for
them by gasoline. <Theodore Roosevelt>
I'm very happy with the Nissan - reasonably quiet, always starts on
the 1st or 2nd pull, etc. It does induce a vibration at a certain
throttle setting, but going a little faster or slower smooths it right
out. Of course a 1 cylinder design will never be as smooth as a boxer
twin, but as far as I know they are not available outside of the
motorcycle world so it really is a moot point.
Bill
the 1st or 2nd pull, etc. It does induce a vibration at a certain
throttle setting, but going a little faster or slower smooths it right
out. Of course a 1 cylinder design will never be as smooth as a boxer
twin, but as far as I know they are not available outside of the
motorcycle world so it really is a moot point.
Bill
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...> wrote:
>
> from the latest MAIB Robb White rant about his 1953 Evinrude, I
deduce that
> all these modern 4-stroke outboards are 1-cylinder? Are folks happy
with how
> they run, i.e. are they smooth, reliable, quiet, etc.?
>
> Paul L., shopping for a Micro motor...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> Bill
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:16 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco Outboard
>
>
> 6hp Nissan 4 stroke, short shaft. 5hp would be plenty, but the dealer
> had the 6 in stock and made me a deal.
>
> Bill
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "s4a9m8" <sammi13@> wrote:
> >
> > What size outboard are the Chebacco owners using? Long or short
shaft?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ron
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>>No, no mention of the rainbow... The story is in the April 1 issue of MAIB,
>> from the latest MAIB Robb White rant about his 1953 Evinrude....
>I don't think I've seen the rant. Did he mention the lovely two
>stroke rainbow?
about the 'Evinrude weedless Lightwin' - his 1953 was a horizontally opposed
twin (in a 3hp!)- weighed 32 lbs or something. He goes on about how superior
it is to the modern 4strokes in terms of smoothness, but later says how
embarassed he is to take it out in public cuz of the pollution factor...
Before reading that, I just assumed the 4strokes were pretty smooth and
quiet. I was given a 1974 2hp Evinrude but environmental issues aside I just
don't think it'll push the boat against the tidal currents around here with
the narrow, engineered channels into the bays... suspect I'm gonna need all
the horses I can squeeze onto that transom. If it weren't for those channels
I'd probably try a yuloh or something...
thanks
Paul
All those things. My 5 horse Honda is a single, reasonably quiet,
but noisy compared to a new one. (Mine's a 1985) Randy Wheating
bought his new and I was surprised how much quieter it ran --
neither has much vibration, but I suspect Randy's was smoother too.
His engine looked the same, just a different paint job, but there
must be something that makes the difference.
BTW, the Honda is 60 lbs, and has a 3 gallon(US) remote tank. When
the tank is full they add up to all the weight I want in the stern,
but I like the combination. It has shown enough power to go to
windward against strong wind (est 25 -30 knots) and waves when it
had to and I estimate the range at 50 miles when not running flat
out. Motoring she squats a little, but once I shut it off the
transom comes up again.
Jamie
PS I don't think I've seen the rant. Did he mention the lovely two
stroke rainbow?
but noisy compared to a new one. (Mine's a 1985) Randy Wheating
bought his new and I was surprised how much quieter it ran --
neither has much vibration, but I suspect Randy's was smoother too.
His engine looked the same, just a different paint job, but there
must be something that makes the difference.
BTW, the Honda is 60 lbs, and has a 3 gallon(US) remote tank. When
the tank is full they add up to all the weight I want in the stern,
but I like the combination. It has shown enough power to go to
windward against strong wind (est 25 -30 knots) and waves when it
had to and I estimate the range at 50 miles when not running flat
out. Motoring she squats a little, but once I shut it off the
transom comes up again.
Jamie
PS I don't think I've seen the rant. Did he mention the lovely two
stroke rainbow?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lefebvre" <paul@...> wrote:
>
> from the latest MAIB Robb White rant about his 1953 Evinrude, I
deduce that
> all these modern 4-stroke outboards are 1-cylinder? Are folks
happy with how
> they run, i.e. are they smooth, reliable, quiet, etc.?
>
> Paul L., shopping for a Micro motor...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of
> Bill
> Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:16 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco Outboard
>
>
> 6hp Nissan 4 stroke, short shaft. 5hp would be plenty, but the
dealer
> had the 6 in stock and made me a deal.
>
> Bill
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "s4a9m8" <sammi13@> wrote:
> >
> > What size outboard are the Chebacco owners using? Long or short
shaft?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ron
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred'
posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
from the latest MAIB Robb White rant about his 1953 Evinrude, I deduce that
all these modern 4-stroke outboards are 1-cylinder? Are folks happy with how
they run, i.e. are they smooth, reliable, quiet, etc.?
Paul L., shopping for a Micro motor...
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bill
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco Outboard
6hp Nissan 4 stroke, short shaft. 5hp would be plenty, but the dealer
had the 6 in stock and made me a deal.
Bill
all these modern 4-stroke outboards are 1-cylinder? Are folks happy with how
they run, i.e. are they smooth, reliable, quiet, etc.?
Paul L., shopping for a Micro motor...
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bill
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:16 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Chebacco Outboard
6hp Nissan 4 stroke, short shaft. 5hp would be plenty, but the dealer
had the 6 in stock and made me a deal.
Bill
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "s4a9m8" <sammi13@...> wrote:
>
> What size outboard are the Chebacco owners using? Long or short shaft?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron
>
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
6hp Nissan 4 stroke, short shaft. 5hp would be plenty, but the dealer
had the 6 in stock and made me a deal.
Bill
had the 6 in stock and made me a deal.
Bill
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "s4a9m8" <sammi13@...> wrote:
>
> What size outboard are the Chebacco owners using? Long or short shaft?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron
>
I used a 6 hp Tohatsu 4 stroke on mine - it was more than enough. I would have bought the 4 hp or 5 hp version if the dealer had had it in stock. I rarely used more than half throttle and that would get me around 4 knots. Short shaft is what the boat is designed for.
Paul
s4a9m8 <sammi13@...> wrote: What size outboard are the Chebacco owners using? Long or short shaft?
Thanks,
Ron
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Paul
s4a9m8 <sammi13@...> wrote: What size outboard are the Chebacco owners using? Long or short shaft?
Thanks,
Ron
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In this part of the world, we all chose 5hp Honda four strokes,
short shafts. That's three of us, 2 in BC and 1 from Oregon.
Everyone has been very happy with them. A long shaft would hang
below the skeg, spoiling your shallow draft and limiting where you
can go. Sales people will tell you you want a long shaft because a
short shaft will come out of the water when the boat pitches in
waves. I use my short shaft in the ocean all the time, including
rough weather -- I've also crossed Juan de Fuca Strait (30 miles in
open water) several times -- and the prop has never come out of the
water.
Of course, if you run into a really cheap long shaft....
Jamie Orr
---- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "s4a9m8" <sammi13@...> wrote:
short shafts. That's three of us, 2 in BC and 1 from Oregon.
Everyone has been very happy with them. A long shaft would hang
below the skeg, spoiling your shallow draft and limiting where you
can go. Sales people will tell you you want a long shaft because a
short shaft will come out of the water when the boat pitches in
waves. I use my short shaft in the ocean all the time, including
rough weather -- I've also crossed Juan de Fuca Strait (30 miles in
open water) several times -- and the prop has never come out of the
water.
Of course, if you run into a really cheap long shaft....
Jamie Orr
---- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "s4a9m8" <sammi13@...> wrote:
>shaft?
> What size outboard are the Chebacco owners using? Long or short
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron
>
What size outboard are the Chebacco owners using? Long or short shaft?
Thanks,
Ron
Thanks,
Ron