Re: Black Skimmer
Golly, that's killing me - if I still lived in Texas I just couldn't resist.
But, yes, I'd paint it . . . .
But, yes, I'd paint it . . . .
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
>
> Incredible asking price. Yikes to the paint choice!
>
>http://sailingtexas.com/sbolgerskimmer25100.html
> <http://sailingtexas.com/sbolgerskimmer25100.html>
>
> Nels
>
Back up guys i sent the check for the boat today
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
--- Original Message ---
From: prairiedog2332 <arvent@...>
Sent: March 31, 2012 3/31/12
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Black Skimmer
The spars look really good and the sails look new. Sails alone are $1875 from Payson. Another $875 gets a pretty good OB. Includes trailer and 2nd set of unfinished leeboards.
Nels
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
--- Original Message ---
From: prairiedog2332 <arvent@...>
Sent: March 31, 2012 3/31/12
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Black Skimmer
The spars look really good and the sails look new. Sails alone are $1875 from Payson. Another $875 gets a pretty good OB. Includes trailer and 2nd set of unfinished leeboards.
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...> wrote:
>
> Aw c'mon. It's a "beautiful pea green boat".
>
> On 3/31/2012 7:47 AM, prairiedog2332 wrote:
> > Yikes to the paint choice!
>
TODAY(Beta) • Powered by Yahoo!How hoops coach once lost his eyebrows
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The spars look really good and the sails look new. Sails alone are $1875 from Payson. Another $875 gets a pretty good OB. Includes trailer and 2nd set of unfinished leeboards.
Nels
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...> wrote:
>
> Aw c'mon. It's a "beautiful pea green boat".
>
> On 3/31/2012 7:47 AM, prairiedog2332 wrote:
> > Yikes to the paint choice!
>
Aw c'mon. It's a "beautiful pea green boat".
On 3/31/2012 7:47 AM, prairiedog2332 wrote:Yikes to the paint choice!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <arvent@...> wrote:
>That's a great deal for somebody! It's a whole lot of boat for that money. I paid more than that for my outboard motor. My first Black Skimmer, Tashtego, cost $18,000 to build in 1983.
>
> Incredible asking price. Yikes to the paint choice!
>
>http://sailingtexas.com/sbolgerskimmer25100.html
> <http://sailingtexas.com/sbolgerskimmer25100.html>
>
> Nels
>
Incredible asking price. Yikes to the paint choice!
http://sailingtexas.com/sbolgerskimmer25100.html
Nels
I did not install the ballast until I sold the boat, I had a rule of DON"T
CLEAT THE SHEET!! That I occasionally broke in light air. The mast was the
most difficult part of launch and retrieve, I rented a Ryder truck to haul
her, cheaper than owning, I even hauled her to the gulf coast and back. Tim
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
graeme19121984
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:26 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Black Skimmer
Hi Tim,
how did you find Black Skimmer to be in the launch/retrieve &
trailer departments? Was the weight a problem at all?
Cheers
Graeme
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Tim
Anderson" <lebateautim@...>
wrote:
Behalf Of
CLEAT THE SHEET!! That I occasionally broke in light air. The mast was the
most difficult part of launch and retrieve, I rented a Ryder truck to haul
her, cheaper than owning, I even hauled her to the gulf coast and back. Tim
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
graeme19121984
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:26 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Black Skimmer
Hi Tim,
how did you find Black Skimmer to be in the launch/retrieve &
trailer departments? Was the weight a problem at all?
Cheers
Graeme
--- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Tim
Anderson" <lebateautim@...>
wrote:
>extensively on
> I built my Black Skimmer "Wood Wind" in 1983 and sailed it
> San Diego Bay and alongshore from Point Conception to Punta Banda,Mexico. A
> great fast sailer that would surf in the right conditions & it wasso cool
> to sail in 1 foot of water! I see that they went with a gunterrig, I built
> the mast as designed of clear fir, when beating the mast headwould bend 2
> feet off to leeward and the mizzen made her self-steering! I soldher in a
> divorce sale and miss her (The Boat) to this day. Tim P Anderson[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com] On
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com
Behalf Of
> Bruce HallmanBruce do
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:29 AM
> To: bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Black Skimmer
>
>
>
> On 10/15/07, Harry James <welshman@ptialaska.
> <mailto:welshman%40ptialaska.net> net> wrote:
> >
> > It is not a boat I would have expected to be built for SF Bay,
> > you have any thoughts on that.is
> >
> > HJ
>
> I do all of my sailing within fifteen miles of downtown SF, which
> deep water sailing. Yet vast stretches of the San Francisco BaySacramento
> (essentially all of the south bay), San Pablo Bay and the
> Delta can get shallow. Plus, the scarcity of available marinathe
> berths, where shallow berths can be more available. Shoal draft
> boats make a lot of sense. I recall PCB designed Black Gauntlet,
> big sister of Black Skimmer, specifically for sailing in San Pablo[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Bay.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Hi Tim,
how did you find Black Skimmer to be in the launch/retrieve &
trailer departments? Was the weight a problem at all?
Cheers
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Anderson" <lebateautim@...>
wrote:
how did you find Black Skimmer to be in the launch/retrieve &
trailer departments? Was the weight a problem at all?
Cheers
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Anderson" <lebateautim@...>
wrote:
>extensively on
> I built my Black Skimmer "Wood Wind" in 1983 and sailed it
> San Diego Bay and alongshore from Point Conception to Punta Banda,Mexico. A
> great fast sailer that would surf in the right conditions & it wasso cool
> to sail in 1 foot of water! I see that they went with a gunterrig, I built
> the mast as designed of clear fir, when beating the mast headwould bend 2
> feet off to leeward and the mizzen made her self-steering! I soldher in a
> divorce sale and miss her (The Boat) to this day. Tim P AndersonBehalf Of
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
> Bruce HallmanBruce do
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:29 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Black Skimmer
>
>
>
> On 10/15/07, Harry James <welshman@ptialaska.
> <mailto:welshman%40ptialaska.net> net> wrote:
> >
> > It is not a boat I would have expected to be built for SF Bay,
> > you have any thoughts on that.is
> >
> > HJ
>
> I do all of my sailing within fifteen miles of downtown SF, which
> deep water sailing. Yet vast stretches of the San Francisco BaySacramento
> (essentially all of the south bay), San Pablo Bay and the
> Delta can get shallow. Plus, the scarcity of available marinathe
> berths, where shallow berths can be more available. Shoal draft
> boats make a lot of sense. I recall PCB designed Black Gauntlet,
> big sister of Black Skimmer, specifically for sailing in San Pablo
> Bay.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
There's 22 answering to "Bob" on the group members' index. Perhaps
one of them is the owner and he'll chime in...
Meanwhile Nexus say to keep a lookout for more sailing pics at their
site...
Cheers
Graeme
one of them is the owner and he'll chime in...
Meanwhile Nexus say to keep a lookout for more sailing pics at their
site...
Cheers
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Kreamer" <kreamers@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the nice website! Really, really beautiful, and your
work is so
> nice. Tell us how it handles, asap. - Bill Kreamer
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> graeme19121984
> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 12:57 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Black Skimmer
>
>
>
>http://www.nexusmar<http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_home.html>
> ine.com/skimmer_home.html
>
> Finished! Launched! Sailing! Hooray!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I built my Black Skimmer "Wood Wind" in 1983 and sailed it extensively on
San Diego Bay and alongshore from Point Conception to Punta Banda, Mexico. A
great fast sailer that would surf in the right conditions & it was so cool
to sail in 1 foot of water! I see that they went with a gunter rig, I built
the mast as designed of clear fir, when beating the mast head would bend 2
feet off to leeward and the mizzen made her self-steering! I sold her in a
divorce sale and miss her (The Boat) to this day. Tim P Anderson
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:29 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Black Skimmer
On 10/15/07, Harry James <welshman@ptialaska.
<mailto:welshman%40ptialaska.net> net> wrote:
deep water sailing. Yet vast stretches of the San Francisco Bay
(essentially all of the south bay), San Pablo Bay and the Sacramento
Delta can get shallow. Plus, the scarcity of available marina
berths, where shallow berths can be more available. Shoal draft
boats make a lot of sense. I recall PCB designed Black Gauntlet, the
big sister of Black Skimmer, specifically for sailing in San Pablo
Bay.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
San Diego Bay and alongshore from Point Conception to Punta Banda, Mexico. A
great fast sailer that would surf in the right conditions & it was so cool
to sail in 1 foot of water! I see that they went with a gunter rig, I built
the mast as designed of clear fir, when beating the mast head would bend 2
feet off to leeward and the mizzen made her self-steering! I sold her in a
divorce sale and miss her (The Boat) to this day. Tim P Anderson
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 8:29 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Black Skimmer
On 10/15/07, Harry James <welshman@ptialaska.
<mailto:welshman%40ptialaska.net> net> wrote:
>I do all of my sailing within fifteen miles of downtown SF, which is
> It is not a boat I would have expected to be built for SF Bay, Bruce do
> you have any thoughts on that.
>
> HJ
deep water sailing. Yet vast stretches of the San Francisco Bay
(essentially all of the south bay), San Pablo Bay and the Sacramento
Delta can get shallow. Plus, the scarcity of available marina
berths, where shallow berths can be more available. Shoal draft
boats make a lot of sense. I recall PCB designed Black Gauntlet, the
big sister of Black Skimmer, specifically for sailing in San Pablo
Bay.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On 10/15/07, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
deep water sailing. Yet vast stretches of the San Francisco Bay
(essentially all of the south bay), San Pablo Bay and the Sacramento
Delta can get shallow. Plus, the scarcity of available marina
berths, where shallow berths can be more available. Shoal draft
boats make a lot of sense. I recall PCB designed Black Gauntlet, the
big sister of Black Skimmer, specifically for sailing in San Pablo
Bay.
>I do all of my sailing within fifteen miles of downtown SF, which is
> It is not a boat I would have expected to be built for SF Bay, Bruce do
> you have any thoughts on that.
>
> HJ
deep water sailing. Yet vast stretches of the San Francisco Bay
(essentially all of the south bay), San Pablo Bay and the Sacramento
Delta can get shallow. Plus, the scarcity of available marina
berths, where shallow berths can be more available. Shoal draft
boats make a lot of sense. I recall PCB designed Black Gauntlet, the
big sister of Black Skimmer, specifically for sailing in San Pablo
Bay.
I think this particular Skimmer was built without regard to cost. The
IPO in the name is probably a clue. From the building web site it was
done by professionals who did not cut a corner anywhere.
It is a beautiful boat beautifully executed, makes me want to get my
Black Skimmer plans out.
It is not a boat I would have expected to be built for SF Bay, Bruce do
you have any thoughts on that.
HJ
lancefgunderson wrote:
IPO in the name is probably a clue. From the building web site it was
done by professionals who did not cut a corner anywhere.
It is a beautiful boat beautifully executed, makes me want to get my
Black Skimmer plans out.
It is not a boat I would have expected to be built for SF Bay, Bruce do
you have any thoughts on that.
HJ
lancefgunderson wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Kreamer" <kreamers@...> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the nice website! Really, really beautiful, and your
>>
> work is so
>
>> nice. Tell us how it handles, asap. - Bill Kreamer
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
>>
> Behalf Of
>
>> graeme19121984
>> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 12:57 AM
>> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [bolger] Black Skimmer
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.nexusmar<http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_home.html>
>> ine.com/skimmer_home.html
>>
>> Finished! Launched! Sailing! Hooray!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> That's a great web site! Very informative. I especially like the
>>
> leeboard sheeting arrangement, and the little block to prevent the
> rudder from hitting the prop. You have built the Rolls Royce of Black
> Skimmers. Say....how much did she cost?
>
>>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Kreamer" <kreamers@...> wrote:
rudder from hitting the prop. You have built the Rolls Royce of Black
Skimmers. Say....how much did she cost?
>work is so
> Thanks for the nice website! Really, really beautiful, and your
> nice. Tell us how it handles, asap. - Bill KreamerBehalf Of
>
>
> _____
>
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On
> graeme19121984leeboard sheeting arrangement, and the little block to prevent the
> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 12:57 AM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [bolger] Black Skimmer
>
>
>
>http://www.nexusmar<http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_home.html>
> ine.com/skimmer_home.html
>
> Finished! Launched! Sailing! Hooray!!!
>
>
>
> That's a great web site! Very informative. I especially like the
rudder from hitting the prop. You have built the Rolls Royce of Black
Skimmers. Say....how much did she cost?
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Thanks for the nice website! Really, really beautiful, and your work is so
nice. Tell us how it handles, asap. - Bill Kreamer
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
graeme19121984
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 12:57 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Black Skimmer
http://www.nexusmar<http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_home.html>
ine.com/skimmer_home.html
Finished! Launched! Sailing! Hooray!!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nice. Tell us how it handles, asap. - Bill Kreamer
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
graeme19121984
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 12:57 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Black Skimmer
http://www.nexusmar<http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_home.html>
ine.com/skimmer_home.html
Finished! Launched! Sailing! Hooray!!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On 10/15/07, nsimms <nsimms@...> wrote:
the first on the WWW of which I am aware. Those 'side' seats look
especially comfortable. Pretty amazing accommodation for a compact 25
hull. I had to smile when you describe the rig as having the drive
advantages of a Marconi Rig, (thinking to myself, except of course,
without all the complexity of steel wire, shrouds, stays,
chainplates, turnbuckles, etc. found with most Marconi Rigs.)
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>I agree, and I am jealous! I really appreciate the interior photos,
> wrote:
> >
> >http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_home.html
> >
> > Finished! Launched! Sailing! Hooray!!!
> >
>
> Man she looks nice!
the first on the WWW of which I am aware. Those 'side' seats look
especially comfortable. Pretty amazing accommodation for a compact 25
hull. I had to smile when you describe the rig as having the drive
advantages of a Marconi Rig, (thinking to myself, except of course,
without all the complexity of steel wire, shrouds, stays,
chainplates, turnbuckles, etc. found with most Marconi Rigs.)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
Does that bulkhead in the middle of the v-berth dig into your midsides
when you're laying there, or are the cushions thick and firm enough
that you don't sink to that level?
Congrats!
Neil S.
wrote:
>Man she looks nice!
>http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_home.html
>
> Finished! Launched! Sailing! Hooray!!!
>
Does that bulkhead in the middle of the v-berth dig into your midsides
when you're laying there, or are the cushions thick and firm enough
that you don't sink to that level?
Congrats!
Neil S.
And a lovely lady she is. Looks like excellent work. Congrats!
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"The secret of joy in work is contained in one word - excellence. To
know how to do something well is to enjoy it" -- Pearl S. Buck
***********
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"The secret of joy in work is contained in one word - excellence. To
know how to do something well is to enjoy it" -- Pearl S. Buck
***********
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>
>http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_home.html
>
> Finished! Launched! Sailing! Hooray!!!
>
I would only skip ordering the plans if I had a real cash crunch or if
I had to start building tomorrow and the boat done 5 days from now. I
think, if you worked full time, you could do that, tho I bought my
Brick. As it happens, I bought my plans from PB&F just before a Brick
came on the market locally. I bought mine for $65 in 2000. They
include a sketch for a gaff rig. By now, they might include some other
goodies. You can get the plans legitimately from Payson
(instantboats.com) for $30, according to the site, but then you aren't
morally justified in asking PB&F any questions, IMHO. The plans are
nice and big and clear. When, or at least if, I build one I would
probably post them on the wall so as not to have to touch them.
Perhaps I'd put on one epoxy thumbprint for authenticity.
There's another option. I know where you can get complete, three
dimensional plans that show a kick up rudder and every building detail
exactly. They are full scale, too. Of course you'd expect to pay more,
and in this case that would be $300. But you could sail the "plans",
or use the sail from the "plan" on your own boat. (I don't have room
for my Brick right now and it's for sale.)
I had to start building tomorrow and the boat done 5 days from now. I
think, if you worked full time, you could do that, tho I bought my
Brick. As it happens, I bought my plans from PB&F just before a Brick
came on the market locally. I bought mine for $65 in 2000. They
include a sketch for a gaff rig. By now, they might include some other
goodies. You can get the plans legitimately from Payson
(instantboats.com) for $30, according to the site, but then you aren't
morally justified in asking PB&F any questions, IMHO. The plans are
nice and big and clear. When, or at least if, I build one I would
probably post them on the wall so as not to have to touch them.
Perhaps I'd put on one epoxy thumbprint for authenticity.
There's another option. I know where you can get complete, three
dimensional plans that show a kick up rudder and every building detail
exactly. They are full scale, too. Of course you'd expect to pay more,
and in this case that would be $300. But you could sail the "plans",
or use the sail from the "plan" on your own boat. (I don't have room
for my Brick right now and it's for sale.)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eric green" <ericgreen@...> wrote:
>
> I want to build a brick with my son. I have the plans from "Boats
with an
> Open Mind". Is there any reason to order full sized plans? I am
going to get
> anything not in the book? Anyone know how much it is to order plans from
> Phil Bolger & Friends?
>
>
>
> Eric Green
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date:
2/17/2006
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date:
2/17/2006
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Thanks Gentlemen,
This was what I needed to know. I figured I would use the plans for the
PDracer and its ilk to add detail.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Nels
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 12:44 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger Brick Plans
This was what I needed to know. I figured I would use the plans for the
PDracer and its ilk to add detail.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Nels
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 12:44 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger Brick Plans
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "cosermann" <arielmiller@...> wrote:
> If you just want to build 1 brick, I think it's all there in the
book
> assuming you can read all the tiny dimensions.
>
It is all there, in both metric amd imperial measurements! There are
also several free plans for similar shapes all over the net.
Nels
Bolger rules!!!
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horses
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- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "cosermann" <arielmiller@...> wrote:
also several free plans for similar shapes all over the net.
Nels
> If you just want to build 1 brick, I think it's all there in thebook
> assuming you can read all the tiny dimensions.It is all there, in both metric amd imperial measurements! There are
>
also several free plans for similar shapes all over the net.
Nels
Last time I checked, Brick was $65, and I think you also got details
for "grout" which is a piece you can use to tie 2 bricks together into
a brickish schooner of sorts.
If you just want to build 1 brick, I think it's all there in the book
assuming you can read all the tiny dimensions.
for "grout" which is a piece you can use to tie 2 bricks together into
a brickish schooner of sorts.
If you just want to build 1 brick, I think it's all there in the book
assuming you can read all the tiny dimensions.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "eric green" <ericgreen@...> wrote:
>
> I want to build a brick with my son. I have the plans from "Boats
with an
> Open Mind". Is there any reason to order full sized plans? I am going
to get
> anything not in the book? Anyone know how much it is to order plans
from
> Phil Bolger & Friends?
I want to build a brick with my son. I have the plans from �Boats with an
Open Mind�. Is there any reason to order full sized plans? I am going to get
anything not in the book? Anyone know how much it is to order plans from
Phil Bolger & Friends?
Eric Green
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Open Mind�. Is there any reason to order full sized plans? I am going to get
anything not in the book? Anyone know how much it is to order plans from
Phil Bolger & Friends?
Eric Green
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Thanks!
It is sure a nice job they are doing at Nexus.
John Fitz
It is sure a nice job they are doing at Nexus.
John Fitz
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@...> wrote:
>
> For those who dont regularly check on this site, see link below,
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
>http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_construction.html
>
For those who dont regularly check on this site, see link below,
Cheers,
John
http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_construction.html
Cheers,
John
http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_construction.html
> > >> blamed for the inadequacies of sailmakers. If BS couldn'tsail to
> > >> windward or tack, I'd want to examine the sail cut first.This is precisely why I have been engaged in making my first sail.
> > >>
> > >> 2
I purchased a Sailrite kit for the old Enterprise Dinghy and have
been assembling it bit by bit in the workshop over the ping pong
table. These kits are put together remarkably well, and I can
assure you that the lessons learned are well worth the expense. I
now have first hand experience with broadseaming, basting seams,
sewing seams, making patches, and working the shape into a sail.
This kit in my inexperienced hands may never win a race
(particularly since I ordered a battenless sail with sail slugs for
the ease of hoisting and lowering. I also reduced the class legal
size to make the boat more child friendly).
Great company, great experience. yes, they have sail kits for most
Bolger boats.
David Jost
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
pictured in the Nautical Quarterly article on PCB, and in the Small
Boat Journal article on Key Largo Shoal Water Cruises. IMO Tashtego is
the prettiest BS I've seen so far; she was built exactly according to
the plans. Lance Gunderson
>reads
> This is the picture from the book sailing small, I don't believe it is
> Gunderson's (who will probably speak for him self soon.). The text
> "Black Skimmer like " his boat.belonged to Stan Grayson, as I know he once owned one. My Tashtego Is
> I don't know the BS pictured in "Sailing Small", but I suspect it
pictured in the Nautical Quarterly article on PCB, and in the Small
Boat Journal article on Key Largo Shoal Water Cruises. IMO Tashtego is
the prettiest BS I've seen so far; she was built exactly according to
the plans. Lance Gunderson
> HJwind,
>
> bluebirdfitz wrote:
> > I found a picture of Gunderson's boat online;
> >http://www.devereuxbooks.com/sailingsmall.htmshe does seem to be
> > riding high in the water. My skimmer has concrete ballast. I've never
> > seen my boat in the water, so my tales will have to wait until the
> > first warmth of spring. Thanks for all the feedback.
> >
> > John Fitz
> > Maynard MA--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Belenky"
> > <peter.belenky64@> wrote:
> >
> >> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I just ran across this bit in a chapter by Lance Gunderson
> >>> in the book "Sailing Small edited by Stan Grayson. ...
> >>> I hope there are some counter comments from others with Black
> >>> Skimmer experience, I found it discouraging.
> >>>
> >> I have no experience to counter Gunderson's but two thoughts:
> >>
> >> 1) As Bolger wrote (was it about Red Zinger?), designers are often
> >> blamed for the inadequacies of sailmakers. If BS couldn't sail to
> >> windward or tack, I'd want to examine the sail cut first.
> >>
> >> 2) BS was designed with substantial inside steel-plate ballast. Was
> >> Gunderson's boat adequately ballasted? If not, it may have had
> >> difficulty standing up to its sail to keep way on, close to the
> >> and it may have lacked momentum in tacking.
> >>
> >> -Peter Belenky
> >>
> >>
>
This is the picture from the book sailing small, I don't believe it is
Gunderson's (who will probably speak for him self soon.). The text reads
"Black Skimmer like " his boat.
HJ
bluebirdfitz wrote:
Gunderson's (who will probably speak for him self soon.). The text reads
"Black Skimmer like " his boat.
HJ
bluebirdfitz wrote:
> I found a picture of Gunderson's boat online;
>http://www.devereuxbooks.com/sailingsmall.htmshe does seem to be
> riding high in the water. My skimmer has concrete ballast. I've never
> seen my boat in the water, so my tales will have to wait until the
> first warmth of spring. Thanks for all the feedback.
>
> John Fitz
> Maynard MA--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Belenky"
> <peter.belenky64@...> wrote:
>
>> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@> wrote:
>>
>>> I just ran across this bit in a chapter by Lance Gunderson
>>> in the book "Sailing Small edited by Stan Grayson. ...
>>> I hope there are some counter comments from others with Black
>>> Skimmer experience, I found it discouraging.
>>>
>> I have no experience to counter Gunderson's but two thoughts:
>>
>> 1) As Bolger wrote (was it about Red Zinger?), designers are often
>> blamed for the inadequacies of sailmakers. If BS couldn't sail to
>> windward or tack, I'd want to examine the sail cut first.
>>
>> 2) BS was designed with substantial inside steel-plate ballast. Was
>> Gunderson's boat adequately ballasted? If not, it may have had
>> difficulty standing up to its sail to keep way on, close to the wind,
>> and it may have lacked momentum in tacking.
>>
>> -Peter Belenky
>>
>>
I found a picture of Gunderson's boat online;
http://www.devereuxbooks.com/sailingsmall.htmshe does seem to be
riding high in the water. My skimmer has concrete ballast. I've never
seen my boat in the water, so my tales will have to wait until the
first warmth of spring. Thanks for all the feedback.
John Fitz
Maynard MA--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Belenky"
<peter.belenky64@...> wrote:
http://www.devereuxbooks.com/sailingsmall.htmshe does seem to be
riding high in the water. My skimmer has concrete ballast. I've never
seen my boat in the water, so my tales will have to wait until the
first warmth of spring. Thanks for all the feedback.
John Fitz
Maynard MA--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Belenky"
<peter.belenky64@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@> wrote:
> >I just ran across this bit in a chapter by Lance Gunderson
> >in the book "Sailing Small edited by Stan Grayson. ...
> >I hope there are some counter comments from others with Black
> >Skimmer experience, I found it discouraging.
>
> I have no experience to counter Gunderson's but two thoughts:
>
> 1) As Bolger wrote (was it about Red Zinger?), designers are often
> blamed for the inadequacies of sailmakers. If BS couldn't sail to
> windward or tack, I'd want to examine the sail cut first.
>
> 2) BS was designed with substantial inside steel-plate ballast. Was
> Gunderson's boat adequately ballasted? If not, it may have had
> difficulty standing up to its sail to keep way on, close to the wind,
> and it may have lacked momentum in tacking.
>
> -Peter Belenky
>
I seem to have a lot to add to things today:
1- ref. to jamming jaws with the solent rig. The
yard here is vertical when hoisted. It will almost
certainly jam when lowered unless the peak is kept
well above the foot.
2- If you must have some attachment look at Polish
native fish boats for mast saddles which work much
better -- again provided you keep the peak well up
when lowering. You can handle it any old whoo on the
way up.
Mr. Bolger says don't and since none of the rigs
being discussed are really that large, I'm sure he's
right as usual. All of the cures are much worse than
the original problem.
Eric
__________________________________________________
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1- ref. to jamming jaws with the solent rig. The
yard here is vertical when hoisted. It will almost
certainly jam when lowered unless the peak is kept
well above the foot.
2- If you must have some attachment look at Polish
native fish boats for mast saddles which work much
better -- again provided you keep the peak well up
when lowering. You can handle it any old whoo on the
way up.
Mr. Bolger says don't and since none of the rigs
being discussed are really that large, I'm sure he's
right as usual. All of the cures are much worse than
the original problem.
Eric
__________________________________________________
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Thanks for those useful insights. Could I add from my
experience with reefing to a sprit boom that reeving
and extra outhaul and downhaul through the appropriate
cringles makes life easier a la the california reef
system. I just feed a lizard through the end of the
sprit and up to the clew of the reef. To use, ease
the halyard, grab the tail of the lizard and pull
taking the bitter end around the mast and back through
the clew and eyesplice. Take up on the halyard and set
the downhaul tension to suit and Bob's your uncle.
Eric
ps. Lizard is just a short piece of line with an
eyesplice so you've got an eye at one end and a tail
at the other. This may be the second oldest seagoing
joke in existence.
pps. Have you had any luck with rolling the sail
around the yard (which what I plan to do) instead of
bundling??
--- oarmandt <oarman89@...> wrote:
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experience with reefing to a sprit boom that reeving
and extra outhaul and downhaul through the appropriate
cringles makes life easier a la the california reef
system. I just feed a lizard through the end of the
sprit and up to the clew of the reef. To use, ease
the halyard, grab the tail of the lizard and pull
taking the bitter end around the mast and back through
the clew and eyesplice. Take up on the halyard and set
the downhaul tension to suit and Bob's your uncle.
Eric
ps. Lizard is just a short piece of line with an
eyesplice so you've got an eye at one end and a tail
at the other. This may be the second oldest seagoing
joke in existence.
pps. Have you had any luck with rolling the sail
around the yard (which what I plan to do) instead of
bundling??
--- oarmandt <oarman89@...> wrote:
> I have a Birdwatcher with the Solent lug rig. I__________________________________________________
> find it a reasonable
> compromise to get decent sail area on a short mast.
> This is most
> useful on a trailer boat where the mast has to be
> erected every
> outing. If the boat could stay on a mooring, it
> would be better to
> use the leg o mutton rig.
>
> The BW has a 144 square foot main on a 15' yard. It
> is not much
> trouble to hoist this, even with a dumb sheave up
> top. The yard
> behaves better in this rig than it does in a
> balanced or standing lug
> sail since the halyard attachment is higher on the
> yard than the
> center of gravity. My sail sets better than one
> might expect with no
> attachment to the mast and with the sprit boom
> trying to pull the luff
> aft.
>
> It is tedious to reef. The Birdwatcher is a natural
> for this rig
> though as the mess of sail and yard comes down
> through the slot top to
> be confined in the cabin. On deck in Black Skimmer,
> it may take some
> extra work to keep it all on board. I have gotten
> by well enough so
> far by heading out with a reef if at all in doubt.
> It is always
> easier to shake one out than the opposite.
>
> The sail permanently lashed to the yard can be a
> nuisance to stow.
> Mine has three battens that have to be removed and
> replaced. Then
> again, I forgot the battens once and it did not seem
> to suffer from it.
>
> Doug
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bluebirdfitz"
> <bluebirdfitz@...> wrote:
> >
> > I am now the owner of two Bolger boats. We just
> brought home our new
> > Black Skimmer to go along with our Bolger Dory.
> The Skimmer has two
> > rigs, including the Solent rig. My first concern
> was the size of the
> > stick that would be hanging over our heads with
> the solent rig. Does
> > anyone out there have experience with this rig,
> and any advice? I
> > must say I absolutely love the Black Skimmer. I
> will post photos as
> > soon as I get the chance.
> >
> > John Fitz
> > Maynard MA
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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I have a Birdwatcher with the Solent lug rig. I find it a reasonable
compromise to get decent sail area on a short mast. This is most
useful on a trailer boat where the mast has to be erected every
outing. If the boat could stay on a mooring, it would be better to
use the leg o mutton rig.
The BW has a 144 square foot main on a 15' yard. It is not much
trouble to hoist this, even with a dumb sheave up top. The yard
behaves better in this rig than it does in a balanced or standing lug
sail since the halyard attachment is higher on the yard than the
center of gravity. My sail sets better than one might expect with no
attachment to the mast and with the sprit boom trying to pull the luff
aft.
It is tedious to reef. The Birdwatcher is a natural for this rig
though as the mess of sail and yard comes down through the slot top to
be confined in the cabin. On deck in Black Skimmer, it may take some
extra work to keep it all on board. I have gotten by well enough so
far by heading out with a reef if at all in doubt. It is always
easier to shake one out than the opposite.
The sail permanently lashed to the yard can be a nuisance to stow.
Mine has three battens that have to be removed and replaced. Then
again, I forgot the battens once and it did not seem to suffer from it.
Doug
compromise to get decent sail area on a short mast. This is most
useful on a trailer boat where the mast has to be erected every
outing. If the boat could stay on a mooring, it would be better to
use the leg o mutton rig.
The BW has a 144 square foot main on a 15' yard. It is not much
trouble to hoist this, even with a dumb sheave up top. The yard
behaves better in this rig than it does in a balanced or standing lug
sail since the halyard attachment is higher on the yard than the
center of gravity. My sail sets better than one might expect with no
attachment to the mast and with the sprit boom trying to pull the luff
aft.
It is tedious to reef. The Birdwatcher is a natural for this rig
though as the mess of sail and yard comes down through the slot top to
be confined in the cabin. On deck in Black Skimmer, it may take some
extra work to keep it all on board. I have gotten by well enough so
far by heading out with a reef if at all in doubt. It is always
easier to shake one out than the opposite.
The sail permanently lashed to the yard can be a nuisance to stow.
Mine has three battens that have to be removed and replaced. Then
again, I forgot the battens once and it did not seem to suffer from it.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "bluebirdfitz" <bluebirdfitz@...> wrote:
>
> I am now the owner of two Bolger boats. We just brought home our new
> Black Skimmer to go along with our Bolger Dory. The Skimmer has two
> rigs, including the Solent rig. My first concern was the size of the
> stick that would be hanging over our heads with the solent rig. Does
> anyone out there have experience with this rig, and any advice? I
> must say I absolutely love the Black Skimmer. I will post photos as
> soon as I get the chance.
>
> John Fitz
> Maynard MA
>
Lance Gunderson sent me this follow-up on his Black Skimmer
experience.
-Peter Belenky
Hi Peter,
Black Skimmer is wide for her length; the outside chines don't help
any either, plus the leeboard(s) have considerable resistance,
especially if they have block and tackle attatched, which is
necessary if they are to be handled in a reasonable way (the
leeboards as designed are absurdly heavy). If you try to leave both
leeboards down as PCB suggests the weather board will float up and
erode the cabin top in short order, and the doubled resistance slows
the boat even more. Also the cat yawl rig, though great for cruising,
is not inherantly fast; the mizzen slows you down on most points,
though it is wonderful for anchoring, reefing and fine self-steering
adjustments. No one with any real sailing experience will find a
Black Skimmer fast in light air or to windward; best to motor in
those conditions. But on a cruise BS can be a fast passage maker for
her size provided there is no lengthly windward work. She's quite
fast off the wind and can be made to self-steer with patient
tinkering with the mizzen and leeboard. And she's fast under power; a
6hp motor is plenty powerful enough. Her great strength is in the
extreme shoal draft, which allows exploration of some of the best
places. She can dry out flat on her bottom in a quiet cove or up a
river. It's possible to cruise without a dinghy, though I towed a
Gloucester Gull dory behind my Tashtego. Below she is remarkably
comfortable for her type provided you don't expect headroom. There is
more sprawl space than in most 30 footers, and access to gear stowed
below is generally easy. These boats pound terribly at anchor in any
chop, which can make sleep impossible in some extreme conditions.
Tashtego's mizzen would rattle annoyingly if it was left up in a
stiff breeze; I usually took it down to avoid this, though then she
had nothing to hold her up into the wind and charged around her
mooring wildly. I thought a fully battened mizzen might have been
worth the cost. Tashtego was well ballasted and relatively stiff for
a sharpie. I sailed her in some god awful weather and she always did
fine provided I tucked in a reef early; sometimes I sailed her double-
reefed. I added a topping lift on the main and a block atop the
mizzen so the latter could be lowered easily; the dumb sheave PCB
shows on the plans was unworkable. Stowing the sails in their bags at
day's end was a nuisance; sometimes I left the main furled on it's
boom, but it was exposed to dirt and sunlight like that; a sail cover
could be made after a fashion but it would likely be ugly. For the
Dutch lacing to work easily the mast must be slick, either painted or
varnished, or made of carbon fiber or aluminum. Some BS's had sail
track, but I doubt it worked well because of the bendy mast. Tashtego
had a Sitka spruce tree for a main mast. It was badly checked when I
bought the boat and I always worried about it breaking. It never did
under my watch, but after I sold her to Bill Blatter it broke off
clean at the partners when she was out under charter. Some of Bill's
customers complained that Tashtego was tender, but I suspect they
failed to reef early enough. Mait Edey and I thought she was plenty
stiff enough. No one in their right mind would want to cross oceans
or be out in gales in a boat like this anyway; BS's are coastal
cruisers and marsh crawlers, not blue water boats. I think they are
remarkably safe actually, given their flotation and high freeboard
amidships; and if it gets really bad you can run them up on the beach
and walk ashore. I did not build Tashtego and I wondered just how
strong she really was. I feared she might pound her bottom off in way
of the ballast; she never leaked after I rebuilt her, but she did
develope a leak after I sold her to Bill, and I'll bet it was around
the chines at the lowest point. If I was to own another one I'd
strengthen the bottom in that area.
I've run on enough for one post. Let me know if there is more you
want to know about BS. I tried to post this to the PCB group but it
wouldn't go through; you can post it if you want.
Fair winds, Lance Gunderson
P.S. The secret to happy boat ownership is to focus on the things the
boat does well and avoid the things she does poorly; boats like
Martha Jane, BS and the AS types are not going to be outstanding
sailors. They can however, make fine cruising boats provided you take
advantage of what they do well.
experience.
-Peter Belenky
Hi Peter,
Black Skimmer is wide for her length; the outside chines don't help
any either, plus the leeboard(s) have considerable resistance,
especially if they have block and tackle attatched, which is
necessary if they are to be handled in a reasonable way (the
leeboards as designed are absurdly heavy). If you try to leave both
leeboards down as PCB suggests the weather board will float up and
erode the cabin top in short order, and the doubled resistance slows
the boat even more. Also the cat yawl rig, though great for cruising,
is not inherantly fast; the mizzen slows you down on most points,
though it is wonderful for anchoring, reefing and fine self-steering
adjustments. No one with any real sailing experience will find a
Black Skimmer fast in light air or to windward; best to motor in
those conditions. But on a cruise BS can be a fast passage maker for
her size provided there is no lengthly windward work. She's quite
fast off the wind and can be made to self-steer with patient
tinkering with the mizzen and leeboard. And she's fast under power; a
6hp motor is plenty powerful enough. Her great strength is in the
extreme shoal draft, which allows exploration of some of the best
places. She can dry out flat on her bottom in a quiet cove or up a
river. It's possible to cruise without a dinghy, though I towed a
Gloucester Gull dory behind my Tashtego. Below she is remarkably
comfortable for her type provided you don't expect headroom. There is
more sprawl space than in most 30 footers, and access to gear stowed
below is generally easy. These boats pound terribly at anchor in any
chop, which can make sleep impossible in some extreme conditions.
Tashtego's mizzen would rattle annoyingly if it was left up in a
stiff breeze; I usually took it down to avoid this, though then she
had nothing to hold her up into the wind and charged around her
mooring wildly. I thought a fully battened mizzen might have been
worth the cost. Tashtego was well ballasted and relatively stiff for
a sharpie. I sailed her in some god awful weather and she always did
fine provided I tucked in a reef early; sometimes I sailed her double-
reefed. I added a topping lift on the main and a block atop the
mizzen so the latter could be lowered easily; the dumb sheave PCB
shows on the plans was unworkable. Stowing the sails in their bags at
day's end was a nuisance; sometimes I left the main furled on it's
boom, but it was exposed to dirt and sunlight like that; a sail cover
could be made after a fashion but it would likely be ugly. For the
Dutch lacing to work easily the mast must be slick, either painted or
varnished, or made of carbon fiber or aluminum. Some BS's had sail
track, but I doubt it worked well because of the bendy mast. Tashtego
had a Sitka spruce tree for a main mast. It was badly checked when I
bought the boat and I always worried about it breaking. It never did
under my watch, but after I sold her to Bill Blatter it broke off
clean at the partners when she was out under charter. Some of Bill's
customers complained that Tashtego was tender, but I suspect they
failed to reef early enough. Mait Edey and I thought she was plenty
stiff enough. No one in their right mind would want to cross oceans
or be out in gales in a boat like this anyway; BS's are coastal
cruisers and marsh crawlers, not blue water boats. I think they are
remarkably safe actually, given their flotation and high freeboard
amidships; and if it gets really bad you can run them up on the beach
and walk ashore. I did not build Tashtego and I wondered just how
strong she really was. I feared she might pound her bottom off in way
of the ballast; she never leaked after I rebuilt her, but she did
develope a leak after I sold her to Bill, and I'll bet it was around
the chines at the lowest point. If I was to own another one I'd
strengthen the bottom in that area.
I've run on enough for one post. Let me know if there is more you
want to know about BS. I tried to post this to the PCB group but it
wouldn't go through; you can post it if you want.
Fair winds, Lance Gunderson
P.S. The secret to happy boat ownership is to focus on the things the
boat does well and avoid the things she does poorly; boats like
Martha Jane, BS and the AS types are not going to be outstanding
sailors. They can however, make fine cruising boats provided you take
advantage of what they do well.
I'll be sure to post the reality of my experience sailing the BlacK
Skimmer. My two previous boats: a 17 foot Wittholz keelcat (which is
for sale--or soon will be) and a 30 foot sharpie ketch didn't exactly
turn on a dime, but we figured them both out and it never really
bothered us. I was kind of hoping the yawl rig on the skimmer would
help me get her around. If anybody is interested in a sail, we'll be
in Brewster MA for a lot of the summer. I'll also post some pictures
as soon as I can find the camera. Thanks much for all the feedback.
John Fitz
Skimmer. My two previous boats: a 17 foot Wittholz keelcat (which is
for sale--or soon will be) and a 30 foot sharpie ketch didn't exactly
turn on a dime, but we figured them both out and it never really
bothered us. I was kind of hoping the yawl rig on the skimmer would
help me get her around. If anybody is interested in a sail, we'll be
in Brewster MA for a lot of the summer. I'll also post some pictures
as soon as I can find the camera. Thanks much for all the feedback.
John Fitz
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, James Pope <james.pope1@...> wrote:
>
> Harry James wrote:
>
> > I have been Black Skimmer admirer for decades, own the plans and have
> > given serious consideration to building one in retirement, there
is room
> > in the shop. I just ran across this bit in a chapter by Lance
Gunderson
> > in the book "Sailing Small edited by Stan Grayson. It is long, I hope
> > there are some counter comments from others with Black Skimmer
> > experience, I found it discouraging. There may be some errors as it is
> > scanned text and I haven't edited it.
> > ---------
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> I owned a Black Skimmer for about three years. I kept her on a mooring
> up a short narrow creek in Hingham, Mass. I never had any problem at
all
> with her hanging in irons when I asked her to come about. I was often
> able to beat my way back up that creek at low tide which narrowed the
> way quite dramatically. I did leave both boards down when doing so,
> however, and she would sometimes fetch up rather smartly on the new
> leeward board.
>
> As to the sail lacing hanging up when you wanted to let it down, mine
> didn't. My mast wasn't oiled, it was varnished. The first few inches of
> release on the halyard slacked the whole thing and down it came.
>
> The boards were, in fact , heavy. To bring them the last few inches
> upward into their rests, I had A long S/S rod bent into a hook, like a
> small shepherd's crook, and put a Tee handle on the upper end. When it
> came time to lift the board out of the water I brought it up to almost
> horizontal with its lifting line and then hooked it and brought it up
> the rest of the way by simply standing up. That worked well.
>
> I'm sorry that fellow down on the Cape had such a bad time with his.
> After the boat left me she went down to the Cape and her new owner has
> regaled me with stories of some fast neat sails down South of Cape Cod.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> I have no experience to counter Gunderson's but two thoughts:Ditto those two. And a third: The Black Skimmer charter in Florida
routinely rented out to many customers including plenty of novices,
so I wonder why the trouble with tacking through stays is not
well known in the common knowledge?
Thanks for posting the scan of the 'first hand' Black Skimmer
report, I *really* appreciate reading first hand reports like that.
Why not contact Mike O'Brien at Wooden Boat and Boat Design Journal. Clyde
Peter Belenky wrote:
Peter Belenky wrote:
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>>I just ran across this bit in a chapter by Lance Gunderson
>>in the book "Sailing Small edited by Stan Grayson. ...
>>I hope there are some counter comments from others with Black
>>Skimmer experience, I found it discouraging.
>>
>>
>
>I have no experience to counter Gunderson's but two thoughts:
>
>1) As Bolger wrote (was it about Red Zinger?), designers are often
>blamed for the inadequacies of sailmakers. If BS couldn't sail to
>windward or tack, I'd want to examine the sail cut first.
>
>2) BS was designed with substantial inside steel-plate ballast. Was
>Gunderson's boat adequately ballasted? If not, it may have had
>difficulty standing up to its sail to keep way on, close to the wind,
>and it may have lacked momentum in tacking.
>
>-Peter Belenky
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
1) As Bolger wrote (was it about Red Zinger?), designers are often
blamed for the inadequacies of sailmakers. If BS couldn't sail to
windward or tack, I'd want to examine the sail cut first.
2) BS was designed with substantial inside steel-plate ballast. Was
Gunderson's boat adequately ballasted? If not, it may have had
difficulty standing up to its sail to keep way on, close to the wind,
and it may have lacked momentum in tacking.
-Peter Belenky
>I just ran across this bit in a chapter by Lance GundersonI have no experience to counter Gunderson's but two thoughts:
>in the book "Sailing Small edited by Stan Grayson. ...
>I hope there are some counter comments from others with Black
>Skimmer experience, I found it discouraging.
1) As Bolger wrote (was it about Red Zinger?), designers are often
blamed for the inadequacies of sailmakers. If BS couldn't sail to
windward or tack, I'd want to examine the sail cut first.
2) BS was designed with substantial inside steel-plate ballast. Was
Gunderson's boat adequately ballasted? If not, it may have had
difficulty standing up to its sail to keep way on, close to the wind,
and it may have lacked momentum in tacking.
-Peter Belenky
Harry James wrote:
up a short narrow creek in Hingham, Mass. I never had any problem at all
with her hanging in irons when I asked her to come about. I was often
able to beat my way back up that creek at low tide which narrowed the
way quite dramatically. I did leave both boards down when doing so,
however, and she would sometimes fetch up rather smartly on the new
leeward board.
As to the sail lacing hanging up when you wanted to let it down, mine
didn't. My mast wasn't oiled, it was varnished. The first few inches of
release on the halyard slacked the whole thing and down it came.
The boards were, in fact , heavy. To bring them the last few inches
upward into their rests, I had A long S/S rod bent into a hook, like a
small shepherd's crook, and put a Tee handle on the upper end. When it
came time to lift the board out of the water I brought it up to almost
horizontal with its lifting line and then hooked it and brought it up
the rest of the way by simply standing up. That worked well.
I'm sorry that fellow down on the Cape had such a bad time with his.
After the boat left me she went down to the Cape and her new owner has
regaled me with stories of some fast neat sails down South of Cape Cod.
Jim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I have been Black Skimmer admirer for decades, own the plans and haveI owned a Black Skimmer for about three years. I kept her on a mooring
> given serious consideration to building one in retirement, there is room
> in the shop. I just ran across this bit in a chapter by Lance Gunderson
> in the book "Sailing Small edited by Stan Grayson. It is long, I hope
> there are some counter comments from others with Black Skimmer
> experience, I found it discouraging. There may be some errors as it is
> scanned text and I haven't edited it.
> ---------
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
up a short narrow creek in Hingham, Mass. I never had any problem at all
with her hanging in irons when I asked her to come about. I was often
able to beat my way back up that creek at low tide which narrowed the
way quite dramatically. I did leave both boards down when doing so,
however, and she would sometimes fetch up rather smartly on the new
leeward board.
As to the sail lacing hanging up when you wanted to let it down, mine
didn't. My mast wasn't oiled, it was varnished. The first few inches of
release on the halyard slacked the whole thing and down it came.
The boards were, in fact , heavy. To bring them the last few inches
upward into their rests, I had A long S/S rod bent into a hook, like a
small shepherd's crook, and put a Tee handle on the upper end. When it
came time to lift the board out of the water I brought it up to almost
horizontal with its lifting line and then hooked it and brought it up
the rest of the way by simply standing up. That worked well.
I'm sorry that fellow down on the Cape had such a bad time with his.
After the boat left me she went down to the Cape and her new owner has
regaled me with stories of some fast neat sails down South of Cape Cod.
Jim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have been Black Skimmer admirer for decades, own the plans and have
given serious consideration to building one in retirement, there is room
in the shop. I just ran across this bit in a chapter by Lance Gunderson
in the book "Sailing Small edited by Stan Grayson. It is long, I hope
there are some counter comments from others with Black Skimmer
experience, I found it discouraging. There may be some errors as it is
scanned text and I haven't edited it.
---------
But I had the urge to do some serious cruising and my little knockabout
just wasn't big enough. I studied plans, hobnobbed with other boaters,
and watched the classified ads. Mait urged me to consider shoal draft as a
requisite. I'd fallen in love with Phil Bolger's Black Skimmer design
when I first laid eyes on her plans in the book, /The Folding Schooner,
/which also had been where the /Surf /had caught my eye. Black Skimmer
was like a larger version of my /Surf. /She had two leeboards and a
one-foot draft. She had plenty of sprawl space below, a big double
berth, floatation, and a simple cat yawl rig. Outboard power was plenty
enough to move her in a calm. I thought perhaps she could be rowed or
sculled. I took imaginary cruises in her in my easy chair, plans in
hand. Then I heard that Walter Barron of Well fleet was building a Black
Skimmer for a client. Mait and I went to Walter's shop to inspect it.
She looked big to me, and Mait approved of her, but she was too
expensive! Out of my league then and now. But good things come to those
who wait patiently, and in 1984, /Tashtego, /the very same Black Skimmer
Walter had built, came up for sale. With a bit ofluck I managed to buy
her. She was stored uncovered at a boatyard in Orleans, Massachusetts,
and needed some TLC, which I gave her between February and her launch in
late April. I installed a Lunenberg Foundry "Gift" cast iron solid fuel
stove in her and slept aboard her in the boatyard several cold weekends
so I could get more work done. Painting her topsides took longer than
expected; I'd finish too late in the day. That night there was a frost
on the Cape, and when I returned to my boat her topsides were no longer
clean, bright Interlux Sea Green, but were an ugly mass of ice crystal
patterns. I had to sand it all off and begin again. Don't paint late in
the day!
I had /Tashtego /more or less ready for her late April launch date at
Meetinghouse Pond. All went as planned, except the Chrysler outboard
motor wouldn't start. It would be a thorn in my side as long as I owned
the boat. We stepped the mast easily with a front-end loader. Once out
on the mooring I commenced bending on saiL I'd oiled the spruce spars as
directed, but the oil had not dried sufficiently, and I couldn't raise
the Dutch-laced mainsail until it had thoroughly dried, which took
several days, but eventually the big main went up and especially down
slick as a whistle. I became fond of DUtch lacing. I slept aboard
/Tashtego /weekends during May with the stove glowing. I was getting
used to her gradually. Our relationship deepened when I had my first
sail in her one brisk afternoon in early May. She proved to be quite
different from what I'd expected and hoped. She wouldn't tack! She'd
look up into the eye of the wind and stop, then fall back on the
previous tack. I almost lost her on a lee shore, but for once the motor
started, and I was able to power her around at the last moment. Bolger
recommended sailing her to windward with both leeboards down when
short-handed, but I found that despite the fresh breeze she had far too
much drag with both boards down. Her leeboards were unworkably heavy,
and I had to haul one of them every tack, which proved vexing and
exhausting. Even with diligent leeboard tending, /Tashtego /still
wouldn't tack. Eventually I learned to smartly back the main or mizzen;
it didn't seem to matter which, and she would briefly sail backward and
then usually manage to falloff on the desired tack.
A wide, flat bottom with eddying outside chines, coupled with big
leeboards and a high-windage rig do not for good windward performance
make. I eventually made it safely to a designated mooring in Pleasant
Bay, got things squared away, and collapsed below exhausted and rather
disappointed with my new boat's maiden voyage. In fact, I was downright
depressed. What had looked like my dream boat on paper had proved
something of a nightmare in reality. /Tashtego /hated to tack, and for
an inveterate singlehander who rather enjoys sailing to windward, that
was anathema. I'd learned she could be unreliable in stays, and
difficult to control in a breeze
III shoal waters when her leeboards had to be up. She could, in fact, be
a dangerous boat in some circumstances. I wondered if I would be able to
single-hand her and realize my cruising dreams. I called Mait on the
Vineyard and asked his advice. He'd chartered a Black Skimmer from Key
Largo Shoal Water Cruises in Florida and had experience sailing the
type. He kindly offered to come to Pleasant Bay and sail with me to the
Vineyard to see what could be done to improve /Tashtego's /performance.
Mait and I had an exciting and varied sail from Chatham to Hyannis, then
on to Vineyard Haven. We tucked in reefs and shook them out. For a while
we were double- reefed. Mait decided /Tashtego /needed a topping lift
and block and tackle on the leeboards to make them less of an ordeal to
tend. These improvements were promptly made once we arrived in Vineyard
Haven, and
they indeed made /Tashtego /easier to single-hand. We also found that
with a crew of two she could sometimes be made to tack if the leeboard
was tended smartly and the main quickly and radically backed. But when
single-handed,
I was never able to get her through the eye of the wind, not even once!
During the course of that pleasant summer season, I did eventually
become better acquainted with /Tashtego's /many vices and virtues. I
sailed her all around Vineyard Sound, taking advantage of her extreme
shoal draft. We put into Cuttyhunk, Quick's Hole, Robinson's Hole,
Tarpaulin Cove, Menemsha, Lake Tashmoo, Edgartown, Cape Pogue,
Nantucket, Wauwinet, Polpis Harbor, back to Vineyard Haven and
eventually home to Maine via Red Brook Harbor, Scituate, Gloucester, and
Kittery Point. Later I sailed /r/her Down East as far as Somes Sound,
putting in at Kennebunkport,Jewell Island, Harpswell, Cape Newagen,
Boothbay Harbor, Round Pond, Harbor Island, Allen Island, Carver's
Harbor, Seal Bay, Perry Creek, Pulpit Harbor, Brooklin, Bass Harbor, and
no doubt a few other places now forgotten. I learned to sail her on her
side when possible, as is recommended for sharpie types when attempting
to go to windward. I learned to take advantage of her self-steering
capabilities and sailed her from Mark Island Light in Deer Isle
Thoroughfare to Winter Harbor in Vinalhaven without touching the tiller;
ditto from Nubble Light in York to Kittery Point. /Tashtego /was fine
downwind; wing and wing with lee boards up, she flew. But to windward
and in light air she was far too slow for me. I put her on the market
and she quickly sold by October. I subsequently sailed her in Florida
Bay where her new owners kept her. She was really in her element there
and is ideally suited for those shoal waters.
Today, many years later, I sometimes miss the Black Skimmer, and all the
things that only a extremely shoal draft boat like her can do. I suspect
Bolger's Skillegallee design would be an improvement on Black Skimmer.
Skillegallee's lengthened water line should make her faster to windward,
and her off-centerboard would make her much easier to tack while
preserving most of the desirable sprawl space below. In fact, I almost
bought the original Skillegallee; I really wanted her and the price was
right, but she was on the West Coast and to get her east would have cost
too much, so I had to let her go. But I still dream of her. I very much
like the cat yawl rig and sprit booms for cruising, and the wet wells
fore and aft prove handy and workable. The simplicity of sharpies makes
them easy to maintain and keep clean. Just don't expect head room. In a
chop, nights aboard can be like trying to sleep inside Gene Krupa's bass
drum. Bolger admits it is best to hunt up some shoal creek for a quiet
night. That said, a sharpie may be the most boat for the money. For
running and reaching they perform exceptionally well and can often be
made to self-steer with a patient adjustment of board and sail trim, and
in the /Surf's /case, crew weight.
bluebirdfitz wrote:
given serious consideration to building one in retirement, there is room
in the shop. I just ran across this bit in a chapter by Lance Gunderson
in the book "Sailing Small edited by Stan Grayson. It is long, I hope
there are some counter comments from others with Black Skimmer
experience, I found it discouraging. There may be some errors as it is
scanned text and I haven't edited it.
---------
But I had the urge to do some serious cruising and my little knockabout
just wasn't big enough. I studied plans, hobnobbed with other boaters,
and watched the classified ads. Mait urged me to consider shoal draft as a
requisite. I'd fallen in love with Phil Bolger's Black Skimmer design
when I first laid eyes on her plans in the book, /The Folding Schooner,
/which also had been where the /Surf /had caught my eye. Black Skimmer
was like a larger version of my /Surf. /She had two leeboards and a
one-foot draft. She had plenty of sprawl space below, a big double
berth, floatation, and a simple cat yawl rig. Outboard power was plenty
enough to move her in a calm. I thought perhaps she could be rowed or
sculled. I took imaginary cruises in her in my easy chair, plans in
hand. Then I heard that Walter Barron of Well fleet was building a Black
Skimmer for a client. Mait and I went to Walter's shop to inspect it.
She looked big to me, and Mait approved of her, but she was too
expensive! Out of my league then and now. But good things come to those
who wait patiently, and in 1984, /Tashtego, /the very same Black Skimmer
Walter had built, came up for sale. With a bit ofluck I managed to buy
her. She was stored uncovered at a boatyard in Orleans, Massachusetts,
and needed some TLC, which I gave her between February and her launch in
late April. I installed a Lunenberg Foundry "Gift" cast iron solid fuel
stove in her and slept aboard her in the boatyard several cold weekends
so I could get more work done. Painting her topsides took longer than
expected; I'd finish too late in the day. That night there was a frost
on the Cape, and when I returned to my boat her topsides were no longer
clean, bright Interlux Sea Green, but were an ugly mass of ice crystal
patterns. I had to sand it all off and begin again. Don't paint late in
the day!
I had /Tashtego /more or less ready for her late April launch date at
Meetinghouse Pond. All went as planned, except the Chrysler outboard
motor wouldn't start. It would be a thorn in my side as long as I owned
the boat. We stepped the mast easily with a front-end loader. Once out
on the mooring I commenced bending on saiL I'd oiled the spruce spars as
directed, but the oil had not dried sufficiently, and I couldn't raise
the Dutch-laced mainsail until it had thoroughly dried, which took
several days, but eventually the big main went up and especially down
slick as a whistle. I became fond of DUtch lacing. I slept aboard
/Tashtego /weekends during May with the stove glowing. I was getting
used to her gradually. Our relationship deepened when I had my first
sail in her one brisk afternoon in early May. She proved to be quite
different from what I'd expected and hoped. She wouldn't tack! She'd
look up into the eye of the wind and stop, then fall back on the
previous tack. I almost lost her on a lee shore, but for once the motor
started, and I was able to power her around at the last moment. Bolger
recommended sailing her to windward with both leeboards down when
short-handed, but I found that despite the fresh breeze she had far too
much drag with both boards down. Her leeboards were unworkably heavy,
and I had to haul one of them every tack, which proved vexing and
exhausting. Even with diligent leeboard tending, /Tashtego /still
wouldn't tack. Eventually I learned to smartly back the main or mizzen;
it didn't seem to matter which, and she would briefly sail backward and
then usually manage to falloff on the desired tack.
A wide, flat bottom with eddying outside chines, coupled with big
leeboards and a high-windage rig do not for good windward performance
make. I eventually made it safely to a designated mooring in Pleasant
Bay, got things squared away, and collapsed below exhausted and rather
disappointed with my new boat's maiden voyage. In fact, I was downright
depressed. What had looked like my dream boat on paper had proved
something of a nightmare in reality. /Tashtego /hated to tack, and for
an inveterate singlehander who rather enjoys sailing to windward, that
was anathema. I'd learned she could be unreliable in stays, and
difficult to control in a breeze
III shoal waters when her leeboards had to be up. She could, in fact, be
a dangerous boat in some circumstances. I wondered if I would be able to
single-hand her and realize my cruising dreams. I called Mait on the
Vineyard and asked his advice. He'd chartered a Black Skimmer from Key
Largo Shoal Water Cruises in Florida and had experience sailing the
type. He kindly offered to come to Pleasant Bay and sail with me to the
Vineyard to see what could be done to improve /Tashtego's /performance.
Mait and I had an exciting and varied sail from Chatham to Hyannis, then
on to Vineyard Haven. We tucked in reefs and shook them out. For a while
we were double- reefed. Mait decided /Tashtego /needed a topping lift
and block and tackle on the leeboards to make them less of an ordeal to
tend. These improvements were promptly made once we arrived in Vineyard
Haven, and
they indeed made /Tashtego /easier to single-hand. We also found that
with a crew of two she could sometimes be made to tack if the leeboard
was tended smartly and the main quickly and radically backed. But when
single-handed,
I was never able to get her through the eye of the wind, not even once!
During the course of that pleasant summer season, I did eventually
become better acquainted with /Tashtego's /many vices and virtues. I
sailed her all around Vineyard Sound, taking advantage of her extreme
shoal draft. We put into Cuttyhunk, Quick's Hole, Robinson's Hole,
Tarpaulin Cove, Menemsha, Lake Tashmoo, Edgartown, Cape Pogue,
Nantucket, Wauwinet, Polpis Harbor, back to Vineyard Haven and
eventually home to Maine via Red Brook Harbor, Scituate, Gloucester, and
Kittery Point. Later I sailed /r/her Down East as far as Somes Sound,
putting in at Kennebunkport,Jewell Island, Harpswell, Cape Newagen,
Boothbay Harbor, Round Pond, Harbor Island, Allen Island, Carver's
Harbor, Seal Bay, Perry Creek, Pulpit Harbor, Brooklin, Bass Harbor, and
no doubt a few other places now forgotten. I learned to sail her on her
side when possible, as is recommended for sharpie types when attempting
to go to windward. I learned to take advantage of her self-steering
capabilities and sailed her from Mark Island Light in Deer Isle
Thoroughfare to Winter Harbor in Vinalhaven without touching the tiller;
ditto from Nubble Light in York to Kittery Point. /Tashtego /was fine
downwind; wing and wing with lee boards up, she flew. But to windward
and in light air she was far too slow for me. I put her on the market
and she quickly sold by October. I subsequently sailed her in Florida
Bay where her new owners kept her. She was really in her element there
and is ideally suited for those shoal waters.
Today, many years later, I sometimes miss the Black Skimmer, and all the
things that only a extremely shoal draft boat like her can do. I suspect
Bolger's Skillegallee design would be an improvement on Black Skimmer.
Skillegallee's lengthened water line should make her faster to windward,
and her off-centerboard would make her much easier to tack while
preserving most of the desirable sprawl space below. In fact, I almost
bought the original Skillegallee; I really wanted her and the price was
right, but she was on the West Coast and to get her east would have cost
too much, so I had to let her go. But I still dream of her. I very much
like the cat yawl rig and sprit booms for cruising, and the wet wells
fore and aft prove handy and workable. The simplicity of sharpies makes
them easy to maintain and keep clean. Just don't expect head room. In a
chop, nights aboard can be like trying to sleep inside Gene Krupa's bass
drum. Bolger admits it is best to hunt up some shoal creek for a quiet
night. That said, a sharpie may be the most boat for the money. For
running and reaching they perform exceptionally well and can often be
made to self-steer with a patient adjustment of board and sail trim, and
in the /Surf's /case, crew weight.
bluebirdfitz wrote:
> I am now the owner of two Bolger boats. We just brought home our new[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Black Skimmer to go along with our Bolger Dory. The Skimmer has two
> rigs, including the Solent rig. My first concern was the size of the
> stick that would be hanging over our heads with the solent rig. Does
> anyone out there have experience with this rig, and any advice? I
> must say I absolutely love the Black Skimmer. I will post photos as
> soon as I get the chance.
>
> John Fitz
> Maynard MA
>
>
>
>
Thanks for the links, I especially enjoyed the cruising story on Bruce Hallman's web site!
James Greene
James Greene
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 18:37:26 -0000, pvanderwaart wrote:
>> Okay I have to ask ... where can I see some online photos of this one?
>
> Did you mean the design, or the particular hull?
>
>http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/pages/Skimmer.htm
>http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/Page.html(see Raven, mid-page)
>http://www.hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
Seems to work well on Lysander17's,a Percy Blandford
design from the mid60's
Cheers
Andy Airey
The most obvious "improvement" is the gunter rig which
is quite
similar except that the heel of the yard is held to
the mast with some
sort of jaws. PCB holds that all gunters have problems
with jamming,
and clearly it's a bit of a trick to have jaws that
work well while
the yard passes ninety degrees from horizontal to
vertical. Ian
Oughtred is the guy to look to for details on a
gunter; he's used them
a fair amount.
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming,
or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:
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design from the mid60's
Cheers
Andy Airey
The most obvious "improvement" is the gunter rig which
is quite
similar except that the heel of the yard is held to
the mast with some
sort of jaws. PCB holds that all gunters have problems
with jamming,
and clearly it's a bit of a trick to have jaws that
work well while
the yard passes ninety degrees from horizontal to
vertical. Ian
Oughtred is the guy to look to for details on a
gunter; he's used them
a fair amount.
Peter
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> Okay I have to ask ... where can I see some online photos of this one?Did you mean the design, or the particular hull?
http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/pages/Skimmer.htm
http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/Page.html(see Raven, mid-page)
http://www.hallman.org/bolger/BlackSkimmer/
> I suspect that Bolger would never specify the use of a solent lug rigWell, he did specify it on the 30' Wolf Trap. The first one was built
> on a boat that did not require, [or greatly benefit from] this virtue
> of shorter spars. And, I think that Bolger is the first to criticise
> the problems with the rig.
that way, and is pictured on the cover of Different Boats, but it was
soon changed, eventually to a schooner, I believe. Bolger likes (or
liked) the fact that once a reef was tied in, it could be very neat
without exposed masthead above the sail, but even he noted that the
only way to reef is to drop the entire sail into the boat. Now that I
think of it, he once quoted that it was popular in its home waters
(the Solent, after all!) in racing boats. Usually, he discounts what's
faddish in racing, and maybe he had a bit of a blind spot on this one.
The most obvious "improvement" is the gunter rig which is quite
similar except that the heel of the yard is held to the mast with some
sort of jaws. PCB holds that all gunters have problems with jamming,
and clearly it's a bit of a trick to have jaws that work well while
the yard passes ninety degrees from horizontal to vertical. Ian
Oughtred is the guy to look to for details on a gunter; he's used them
a fair amount.
Peter
> On the positive side, the spars were short enough to fit in theI suspect that Bolger would never specify the use of a solent lug rig
> length of the boat, and the mast was a snap to step.
on a boat that did not require, [or greatly benefit from] this virtue
of shorter spars. And, I think that Bolger is the first to criticise
the problems with the rig.
Just for fun, here is a scan of Bernie Wolfard's writeup:
http://hallman.org/bolger/CommonSenseSkiff.gif
Hi John,
Sense Skiff (design #571 or 572, I believe)and it had the Solent Lug
rig. The boat sailed great, especially with the jib set, but I did
not care for this rig, and would not go out of my way to use it
again. Granted, I was new to sailing at the time, but here are the
problems I saw with it:
1) As others have mentioned, you've got the yard flying around sort
of semi-horizontal or even inverted while hoisting sail. In any kind
of breeze, the yard and sail thrash around until you get it all the
way up and the downhaul tight. Fixing the downhaul first does
nothing, since it's the heel of the yard that's the problem. A
downhaul on the heel would probably help, but now you need another
hand.
2) Reefing was a big pain. To do it called for lowering the sail
completely, and thus having a sea of sailcloth in the cockpit. Then
you find the foot of the sail and tie in the reef points. After that,
you have to move the halyard to a higher position on the yard. Next,
the sprit must be fixed to the new clew of the sail, and then
positioned in its snotter. Lastly, hoist away. All the while, the
boat is blowing to leeward across the lake, usually into some rocks
you don't have time to pay attention to, and can't maneuver to avoid
anyway.
On the positive side, the spars were short enough to fit in the
length of the boat, and the mast was a snap to step. She sailed fast
and of course the sprit boom is self-vanging. But in the end, it's
really not a good rig for the small lakes we have here in CO if you
need to reef. Fortunately, we found that just dropping the jib was
enough in most cases. With two of us aboard, she could handle a lot
of wind with the full mainsail, so we never reefed again. Out in
open water where Black Skimmer should be might be a different story,
but I don't see myself ever using this rig again.
Jon Kolb
http://www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> I am now the owner of two Bolger boats. We just brought home ournew
> Black Skimmer to go along with our Bolger Dory. The Skimmer has twothe
> rigs, including the Solent rig. My first concern was the size of
> stick that would be hanging over our heads with the solent rig.Does
> anyone out there have experience with this rig, and any advice? ICongratulations on the new boat! My first boat was a Bolger Common
> must say I absolutely love the Black Skimmer. I will post photos as
> soon as I get the chance.
Sense Skiff (design #571 or 572, I believe)and it had the Solent Lug
rig. The boat sailed great, especially with the jib set, but I did
not care for this rig, and would not go out of my way to use it
again. Granted, I was new to sailing at the time, but here are the
problems I saw with it:
1) As others have mentioned, you've got the yard flying around sort
of semi-horizontal or even inverted while hoisting sail. In any kind
of breeze, the yard and sail thrash around until you get it all the
way up and the downhaul tight. Fixing the downhaul first does
nothing, since it's the heel of the yard that's the problem. A
downhaul on the heel would probably help, but now you need another
hand.
2) Reefing was a big pain. To do it called for lowering the sail
completely, and thus having a sea of sailcloth in the cockpit. Then
you find the foot of the sail and tie in the reef points. After that,
you have to move the halyard to a higher position on the yard. Next,
the sprit must be fixed to the new clew of the sail, and then
positioned in its snotter. Lastly, hoist away. All the while, the
boat is blowing to leeward across the lake, usually into some rocks
you don't have time to pay attention to, and can't maneuver to avoid
anyway.
On the positive side, the spars were short enough to fit in the
length of the boat, and the mast was a snap to step. She sailed fast
and of course the sprit boom is self-vanging. But in the end, it's
really not a good rig for the small lakes we have here in CO if you
need to reef. Fortunately, we found that just dropping the jib was
enough in most cases. With two of us aboard, she could handle a lot
of wind with the full mainsail, so we never reefed again. Out in
open water where Black Skimmer should be might be a different story,
but I don't see myself ever using this rig again.
Jon Kolb
http://www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
Okay I have to ask ... where can I see some online photos of this one?
James Greene
James Greene
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 15:10:01 -0000, pvanderwaart wrote:
>> Wow, the elite club of Black Skimmer owners.
>> There cannot be more than a handful ever made.
>
> Wouldn't it be interesting to know how many! I've had a set of plans
> since about 1973, and never built the boat. My guess would be in the
> range of a dozen. I'm sure I've heard of at least six, so if the
> actual number was two or three dozen, I would not be really surprised.
> Wow, the elite club of Black Skimmer owners.Wouldn't it be interesting to know how many! I've had a set of plans
> There cannot be more than a handful ever made.
since about 1973, and never built the boat. My guess would be in the
range of a dozen. I'm sure I've heard of at least six, so if the
actual number was two or three dozen, I would not be really surprised.
As for the yard on the Solent Lug rig, I can see the need for caution
since it flies pretty free when being lowered. There are comments by
Bolger about these things here and there including 103 Boat Rigs and
various MAIB articles. I would seriously consider a downhaul on the
heel of the yard and/or some sort of lazyjack arrangement.
And use good line for the halyard!!
Peter
Interesting that a year or so ago the UK magazine Classic Boat asked
some higher profile British designers what their 10 top designs of all
time (any design )were and Ian Oughtred mentioned Black Skimmer in his
top ten.
some higher profile British designers what their 10 top designs of all
time (any design )were and Ian Oughtred mentioned Black Skimmer in his
top ten.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> > Black Skimmer
>
> Wow, the elite club of Black Skimmer owners.
> There cannot be more than a handful ever made.
>
> Black SkimmerWow, the elite club of Black Skimmer owners.
There cannot be more than a handful ever made.
I am now the owner of two Bolger boats. We just brought home our new
Black Skimmer to go along with our Bolger Dory. The Skimmer has two
rigs, including the Solent rig. My first concern was the size of the
stick that would be hanging over our heads with the solent rig. Does
anyone out there have experience with this rig, and any advice? I
must say I absolutely love the Black Skimmer. I will post photos as
soon as I get the chance.
John Fitz
Maynard MA
Black Skimmer to go along with our Bolger Dory. The Skimmer has two
rigs, including the Solent rig. My first concern was the size of the
stick that would be hanging over our heads with the solent rig. Does
anyone out there have experience with this rig, and any advice? I
must say I absolutely love the Black Skimmer. I will post photos as
soon as I get the chance.
John Fitz
Maynard MA
Check out Seven Stars in Bolger 2 Files for a couple of pics of an
unfinished 50' box in Nome.
HJ
Ron Badley wrote:
unfinished 50' box in Nome.
HJ
Ron Badley wrote:
> I have a soft spot for the really big box boats. The Sir Joseph Banks
>is one of the few I have seen. Any study plans out there for more?
>
>RonB.
>
>
>
>On 13-Oct-05, at 7:02 PM, Philip Smith wrote:
>
>
>>I seriously investigated doing an 80' PB&F vessel. (It
>>never got out of the concept stage due to a lack of
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Thanks, Bruce.
There is a drawing I did of the 55 with a different look in one of the
files someplace. Great boat.
Haven't seen the 'Martyr before. Looks very neat. Outrageously skinny.
I love it. Living inside an uninsulated tin can would be awful at best.
Build it out of plywood, add an outrigger off one side and you'd
really have something. The outrigger would come off for canal travel of
course but the boat would sail pretty much level at all times. The rig
looks good but I doubt the little fore and aft sails would do much of
anything. I'd do a cat ketch with both rigs the same. That may make it
cat schooner, I could never figure that out. The interior looks very
comfortable. That forward berth would be a bit of a test in any kind of
a chop. Good place for young ones that can sleep through anything, as
most of them can.
Getting carried away.... Adding the outrigger and building out of
plywood would probably knock the displacement down 10,000 pounds or
more to 7,000 pounds. The rig would only need to be a total of 500 sqft
for really good performance.
RonB.
There is a drawing I did of the 55 with a different look in one of the
files someplace. Great boat.
Haven't seen the 'Martyr before. Looks very neat. Outrageously skinny.
I love it. Living inside an uninsulated tin can would be awful at best.
Build it out of plywood, add an outrigger off one side and you'd
really have something. The outrigger would come off for canal travel of
course but the boat would sail pretty much level at all times. The rig
looks good but I doubt the little fore and aft sails would do much of
anything. I'd do a cat ketch with both rigs the same. That may make it
cat schooner, I could never figure that out. The interior looks very
comfortable. That forward berth would be a bit of a test in any kind of
a chop. Good place for young ones that can sleep through anything, as
most of them can.
Getting carried away.... Adding the outrigger and building out of
plywood would probably knock the displacement down 10,000 pounds or
more to 7,000 pounds. The rig would only need to be a total of 500 sqft
for really good performance.
RonB.
On 14-Oct-05, at 10:18 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
>http://hallman.org/bolger/487/487.gif
>
> And, of course, there is #487 _Weston Martyr_
When we built the three light dories we used this technique on one of
them. I could not tell the difference in bending the panels on assembly.
Definitely a labor saver on getting a smooth panel, you have mean old Mr
Gravity working for you.
HJ
Philip Smith wrote:
them. I could not tell the difference in bending the panels on assembly.
Definitely a labor saver on getting a smooth panel, you have mean old Mr
Gravity working for you.
HJ
Philip Smith wrote:
>That's how PB&F usually spec out building hulls,
>especially big ones. Four or five (if the stern is a
>separate panel) or six (if the bow...) large panels
>which are joined together to form the hull and,
>usually, a box girder. There's been at least one
>extensive side bar in MAIB from PB& F about this
>technique.
>
>I seriously investigated doing an 80' PB&F vessel. (It
>never got out of the concept stage due to a lack of
>sufficient funds.) I spoke with Steve Smith (no
>relation) at Smith Epoxies in Richmond, CA about
>formulating an epoxy with a very long pot life to
>facilitate assembly and the potential that things
>might go wrong.
>
>Smith said that he could give me 18-20 hours. I
>figured that was plenty long enough to either get it
>to work right or to clean everything up.
>
>Phil Smith
>
>
>
>>I thought it was interesting that they epoxied and
>>glassed the hull panels while they
>>were flat. Is there a downside to this? Obviously
>>they didn't have any problems flexing
>>to proper shape afterwards.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "urbanrocket" <urbanrocket@e...>
wrote:
Windermere) PCB&F's recommended sanding and glassing right up to the
primer stage while the panels(8' X 32') were laying flat and THEN
raising them to assemble the hull.I did not feel comfortable with
this approach as I anticipated many occassions to pierce that slick
finish later on while attaching various interior framing bits etc...
Beyond that,I had(still do!) an un-supported/un-proven/un-scientific
notion that it is somehow better to glass the hull sides after the
curve is put into her rather then putting the 'glass under a load of
tension by forcing it to wrap around the stations later.
I haven't 'glassed her yet but I can tell you that those hull sides
have seen their fair share of screws driven through them to secure
numerous bits of interior joinery(all screws removed after epoxy
cured ;-) )
Like you, I would be most interested in hearing(reading) a
definitive exposé on this subject from some of our more experienced
engineer types :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who today assembled and installed
13 temporary"thermo-pane storm windows" and 2 "storm doors" on
Windermere for the purpose of furthering the R factor of her living
quarters and in anticipation of some wonderfully cold winter days
working in shorts and t-shirt inside a heated cabin.....from along
the darkened shores of the St.Lawrence...........
wrote:
>hull panels while they
> I thought it was interesting that they epoxied and glassed the
> were flat. Is there a downside to this? Obviously they didn't haveany problems flexing
> to proper shape afterwards.Interesting question Bill......With the boat I'm building(a Bolger
>
> Any comments from the general group wisdom?
> Bill
Windermere) PCB&F's recommended sanding and glassing right up to the
primer stage while the panels(8' X 32') were laying flat and THEN
raising them to assemble the hull.I did not feel comfortable with
this approach as I anticipated many occassions to pierce that slick
finish later on while attaching various interior framing bits etc...
Beyond that,I had(still do!) an un-supported/un-proven/un-scientific
notion that it is somehow better to glass the hull sides after the
curve is put into her rather then putting the 'glass under a load of
tension by forcing it to wrap around the stations later.
I haven't 'glassed her yet but I can tell you that those hull sides
have seen their fair share of screws driven through them to secure
numerous bits of interior joinery(all screws removed after epoxy
cured ;-) )
Like you, I would be most interested in hearing(reading) a
definitive exposé on this subject from some of our more experienced
engineer types :-)
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan,who today assembled and installed
13 temporary"thermo-pane storm windows" and 2 "storm doors" on
Windermere for the purpose of furthering the R factor of her living
quarters and in anticipation of some wonderfully cold winter days
working in shorts and t-shirt inside a heated cabin.....from along
the darkened shores of the St.Lawrence...........
Have you seen the 55 foot
Keel Sharpie Family Live-On-Board Concept?
http://hallman.org/bolger/55footSharpie.gif
http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif
Keel Sharpie Family Live-On-Board Concept?
http://hallman.org/bolger/55footSharpie.gif
http://hallman.org/bolger/55footer.gif
On 10/14/05, Ron Badley <badley@...> wrote:
> I have a soft spot for the really big box boats. The Sir Joseph Banks
> is one of the few I have seen. Any study plans out there for more?
>
> RonB.
> I have a soft spot for the really big box boats. The Sir JosephWell, there's Bruce's aircraft carrier....
> Banks is one of the few I have seen. Any study plans out there for
> more?
-- Sue --
(who blames Bruce for getting her worked up about the Zenair 701)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
I have a soft spot for the really big box boats. The Sir Joseph Banks
is one of the few I have seen. Any study plans out there for more?
RonB.
is one of the few I have seen. Any study plans out there for more?
RonB.
On 13-Oct-05, at 7:02 PM, Philip Smith wrote:
>
> I seriously investigated doing an 80' PB&F vessel. (It
> never got out of the concept stage due to a lack of
> epoxied and glassed the hull panels while they were flat.I am right in the middle of doing exactly that, for my
Topaz Spyder. The Bolger 'building key' specifically
instructs to do it this way.
>>I thought it was interesting that they epoxied and glassed the hull panels while theywere flat. Is there a downside to this? Obviously they didn't have any problems flexing
to proper shape afterwards.>>
I did this when I was building my Chebacco, remembering to leave the edges of panels uncoated where they were to be taped together. I read somewhere that fresh epoxy sticks better to bare wood than to an existing coat of epoxy, though I expect that roughing up would have been as effective.
Advantages? Lack of runs and sags when flat. It saves a LOT of sanding.
Bill S.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That's how PB&F usually spec out building hulls,
especially big ones. Four or five (if the stern is a
separate panel) or six (if the bow...) large panels
which are joined together to form the hull and,
usually, a box girder. There's been at least one
extensive side bar in MAIB from PB& F about this
technique.
I seriously investigated doing an 80' PB&F vessel. (It
never got out of the concept stage due to a lack of
sufficient funds.) I spoke with Steve Smith (no
relation) at Smith Epoxies in Richmond, CA about
formulating an epoxy with a very long pot life to
facilitate assembly and the potential that things
might go wrong.
Smith said that he could give me 18-20 hours. I
figured that was plenty long enough to either get it
to work right or to clean everything up.
Phil Smith
especially big ones. Four or five (if the stern is a
separate panel) or six (if the bow...) large panels
which are joined together to form the hull and,
usually, a box girder. There's been at least one
extensive side bar in MAIB from PB& F about this
technique.
I seriously investigated doing an 80' PB&F vessel. (It
never got out of the concept stage due to a lack of
sufficient funds.) I spoke with Steve Smith (no
relation) at Smith Epoxies in Richmond, CA about
formulating an epoxy with a very long pot life to
facilitate assembly and the potential that things
might go wrong.
Smith said that he could give me 18-20 hours. I
figured that was plenty long enough to either get it
to work right or to clean everything up.
Phil Smith
> I thought it was interesting that they epoxied and
> glassed the hull panels while they
> were flat. Is there a downside to this? Obviously
> they didn't have any problems flexing
> to proper shape afterwards.
I thought it was interesting that they epoxied and glassed the hull panels while they
were flat. Is there a downside to this? Obviously they didn't have any problems flexing
to proper shape afterwards.
Any comments from the general group wisdom?
Bill
were flat. Is there a downside to this? Obviously they didn't have any problems flexing
to proper shape afterwards.
Any comments from the general group wisdom?
Bill
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@i...> wrote:
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> The site below shows construction of a Black Skimmer (posted here
> previously). I emailed David Roberts complementing him of the site
> and asking when there will be more pics:
>
> David Roberts wrote:
>
> >John,
> >New Skimmer photos up today. We now have her rolled over and are
> working on
> >the interior. Photos of that in another couple of weeks.
> >David
> >
> This will be a very interesting site to visit,
>
> Cheers,
>
> John Mann
>http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_construction.html
>
Greetings,
The site below shows construction of a Black Skimmer (posted here
previously). I emailed David Roberts complementing him of the site
and asking when there will be more pics:
David Roberts wrote:
Cheers,
John Mann
http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_construction.html
The site below shows construction of a Black Skimmer (posted here
previously). I emailed David Roberts complementing him of the site
and asking when there will be more pics:
David Roberts wrote:
>John,working on
>New Skimmer photos up today. We now have her rolled over and are
>the interior. Photos of that in another couple of weeks.This will be a very interesting site to visit,
>David
>
Cheers,
John Mann
http://www.nexusmarine.com/skimmer_construction.html
Here's a "Black Skimmer" owner chiming in:
1) I'll have to refer to plans at home for answer what these "trail knees" are.... don't remember....
2) My boat has a hollow box-mast of fir, approx 3/4" and 1/2" walls, rather than the solid-laminated mast called for in plans. It's actually the mast from first build of Bolger's "Red Zinger" plan (see BWAOM).
However, I DID reinforce the area at the mast-partners by incorporating a pivot (a "tabernacle" of sorts) made of 3/16" steel totally surrounding the mast, nearly a foot long -- so I've distributed the (significant!!!) point-loads from the mast-partner jaws over a larger area of the mast.
Another area requiring reinforcement would be the heel -- to reinforce BOTH, maybe you could order the mast a few feet too long, and (if sufficiently tapered) cut off a four-foot section and slip it over the remaining, now actual-length mast... a bit of epoxy between the two cylinders.... might still be great strengthening even if the reinforcing piece had to be split and expanded to fit over the mast...
Those tapered light poles aren't infallible: I had one in a 18' Marshall Catboat some thirty years ago; in a fit of silly racing (!) an encounter with another larger sailboat's lee rail actually dismasted me! His stanchion hooked my forestay, and pulled that mast right over (she FOLDED at the mast partners, then of course broke at the fold)
3) somewhere in Bolger's commentaries, I've read him stating that the sail as sketched is an idea "better not to be executed...." Nonetheless, looks fascinating to play with. A spinnaker with a "built-in" pole? neat-o! Yeah, I've been tempted, at least for the light-air conditions prevalent on Puget Sound in the summer.... A good place to try PolyTarp or Tyvek. But: Note that by the time you've wung-out main and mizzen, you've possibly blanketed most of that foresail anyway. Also, Richard Zapf found, on "Red Zinger", he had to go to a very stout tubular aluminum NON-tapered mast in order to "take" spinnaker loads without bending the mast and thereby totally distorting the mainsail-shape. It was courtesy of this finding that I ended up with Dr. Zapf's mast and mainsail for my Black Skimmer.....
4) on my boat (over-outfitted with random rigging bits found at used-ship chandleries, so no longer in the "KISS" philosophy as originally drawn) the mizzen sheet is led thru a plastic fairlead bolted to the top-surface of the boomkin at its tip, (I'd go for one with a sstl ferrule inside it, as per Ronstan's #082615, to avoid eventual wear in the plastic...) thence to a Harken Cam-Matic jamming cleat (or other cam-cleat, whatever's available, even a Clam-Cleat would do...) mounted toward centerline from the mizzenmast on that little triangular aft-deck. If you put Harken's special fairlead part, or even just a u-shaped eye-strap, across the top of the cam-cleat opening, the sheet is always right over the jaws ready to jam back in, and can be released and re-fastened from anywhere in the cockpit! But once in a while, during a wild jibe, I'd get a wrap of the sheet around the tip of the boomkin behind the fairlead -- for this reason, be SURE the fairlead is mounted all the way to the VERY end of the boomkin!
Yeah, yeah, eventually I'll post a photo-essay showing all the details how I've over-rigged my Black Skimmer -- have patience. She's still under her winter tarp.
Regards,
Wayne Gilham, CPYB
Associate Broker
Gig Harbor Yacht Sales
253 / 851-2674
cell: 253 / 318-9873
personal e-mail: wgilham@...
---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1) I'll have to refer to plans at home for answer what these "trail knees" are.... don't remember....
2) My boat has a hollow box-mast of fir, approx 3/4" and 1/2" walls, rather than the solid-laminated mast called for in plans. It's actually the mast from first build of Bolger's "Red Zinger" plan (see BWAOM).
However, I DID reinforce the area at the mast-partners by incorporating a pivot (a "tabernacle" of sorts) made of 3/16" steel totally surrounding the mast, nearly a foot long -- so I've distributed the (significant!!!) point-loads from the mast-partner jaws over a larger area of the mast.
Another area requiring reinforcement would be the heel -- to reinforce BOTH, maybe you could order the mast a few feet too long, and (if sufficiently tapered) cut off a four-foot section and slip it over the remaining, now actual-length mast... a bit of epoxy between the two cylinders.... might still be great strengthening even if the reinforcing piece had to be split and expanded to fit over the mast...
Those tapered light poles aren't infallible: I had one in a 18' Marshall Catboat some thirty years ago; in a fit of silly racing (!) an encounter with another larger sailboat's lee rail actually dismasted me! His stanchion hooked my forestay, and pulled that mast right over (she FOLDED at the mast partners, then of course broke at the fold)
3) somewhere in Bolger's commentaries, I've read him stating that the sail as sketched is an idea "better not to be executed...." Nonetheless, looks fascinating to play with. A spinnaker with a "built-in" pole? neat-o! Yeah, I've been tempted, at least for the light-air conditions prevalent on Puget Sound in the summer.... A good place to try PolyTarp or Tyvek. But: Note that by the time you've wung-out main and mizzen, you've possibly blanketed most of that foresail anyway. Also, Richard Zapf found, on "Red Zinger", he had to go to a very stout tubular aluminum NON-tapered mast in order to "take" spinnaker loads without bending the mast and thereby totally distorting the mainsail-shape. It was courtesy of this finding that I ended up with Dr. Zapf's mast and mainsail for my Black Skimmer.....
4) on my boat (over-outfitted with random rigging bits found at used-ship chandleries, so no longer in the "KISS" philosophy as originally drawn) the mizzen sheet is led thru a plastic fairlead bolted to the top-surface of the boomkin at its tip, (I'd go for one with a sstl ferrule inside it, as per Ronstan's #082615, to avoid eventual wear in the plastic...) thence to a Harken Cam-Matic jamming cleat (or other cam-cleat, whatever's available, even a Clam-Cleat would do...) mounted toward centerline from the mizzenmast on that little triangular aft-deck. If you put Harken's special fairlead part, or even just a u-shaped eye-strap, across the top of the cam-cleat opening, the sheet is always right over the jaws ready to jam back in, and can be released and re-fastened from anywhere in the cockpit! But once in a while, during a wild jibe, I'd get a wrap of the sheet around the tip of the boomkin behind the fairlead -- for this reason, be SURE the fairlead is mounted all the way to the VERY end of the boomkin!
Yeah, yeah, eventually I'll post a photo-essay showing all the details how I've over-rigged my Black Skimmer -- have patience. She's still under her winter tarp.
Regards,
Wayne Gilham, CPYB
Associate Broker
Gig Harbor Yacht Sales
253 / 851-2674
cell: 253 / 318-9873
personal e-mail: wgilham@...
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> 2)Has anyone substituted aluminum or fiberglass flagpoles for theGreg Carlsson used off-the-shelf aluminum flagpoles for his light
> wooden masts called for in the plans?
schooner, and years ago, I think Chuck Paine has a list of suppliers
of aluminum light poles (road-side lighting type) that he though
suitable for his smaller boats. I'm a little wary because I think the
Black Skimmer mast may be designed light in order to be flexible. I
don't know.
It was noted just a few days ago that the original wooden mast from
Red Zinger was adapted to a Black Skimmer when 'Zinger got an
Aluminum mast. That suggests that an Al mast is feasible.
In your place, I would make a direct inquiry to Bolger. However, he
has said in print that he feels a wood is as good or better than the
more industrial alternatives for an unstayed mast. What would be the
motivation for the change: cost, time/energy, performance?
Peter
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "savannahguy992000" <wils7415@b...>
wrote:
FG/Polyester mast and 420 sq. ft of sail with a wishbone. I think the
mast was wound on a mandrel and then gelcoated and bagged on the
outside. Anyway 30 glass masts across NA were replaced NC that year
with an Aluminum version after the brittle gelcoat cracked the first
time the masts bent under a significent load.
Mike
wrote:
> 2)Has anyone substituted aluminum or fiberglass flagpoles for theIn 1982 I had a new Nonsuch 26 cruising cat boat with 45 foot
> wooden masts called for in the plans? I built a Gazelle years ago
> and used 8 inch flagpoles unstayed and they were fine. These were
> extruded and tapered to 4 inches at the top, btw.
FG/Polyester mast and 420 sq. ft of sail with a wishbone. I think the
mast was wound on a mandrel and then gelcoated and bagged on the
outside. Anyway 30 glass masts across NA were replaced NC that year
with an Aluminum version after the brittle gelcoat cracked the first
time the masts bent under a significent load.
Mike
I am planning to build a Black Skimmer and have enjoyed perusing the
plans, but I have a few questions I thought someone on here might be
able to answer so I don't have to bother PCB or Harold Payson:
1)Do the "trail knees" shown at the bow (item 19 in the plans) serve
any purpose other than aesthetics?
2)Has anyone substituted aluminum or fiberglass flagpoles for the
wooden masts called for in the plans? I built a Gazelle years ago
and used 8 inch flagpoles unstayed and they were fine. These were
extruded and tapered to 4 inches at the top, btw.
3)Does anyone know of a Black Skimmer that used the very odd
headsail drawn in the plans? All the pictures I've seen were
of 'Skimmers sailing under main and mizzen only.
4)The plans do not address how sheets are to be handled for the
mizzen and headsail, if used. What do most 'Skimmer sailors do?
Thanks in advance for any information.
plans, but I have a few questions I thought someone on here might be
able to answer so I don't have to bother PCB or Harold Payson:
1)Do the "trail knees" shown at the bow (item 19 in the plans) serve
any purpose other than aesthetics?
2)Has anyone substituted aluminum or fiberglass flagpoles for the
wooden masts called for in the plans? I built a Gazelle years ago
and used 8 inch flagpoles unstayed and they were fine. These were
extruded and tapered to 4 inches at the top, btw.
3)Does anyone know of a Black Skimmer that used the very odd
headsail drawn in the plans? All the pictures I've seen were
of 'Skimmers sailing under main and mizzen only.
4)The plans do not address how sheets are to be handled for the
mizzen and headsail, if used. What do most 'Skimmer sailors do?
Thanks in advance for any information.
(Is this "correspondence too bulky?")
Wayne
This is great stuff!!!! Its just what I was after. Dont worry about being
wordy, the more you put, the more I learn. If the group gets tired of it we
can move it private.
After looking at the big main, and thinking for a long time I had come to
the conclusion that the only way to reef single handed in rough conditions
would be to use some sort of track arrangement and Jiffy reefing. The sprit
would not go forward. I then read the same conclusion in Michalaks article
on reefing sprit rigs and now you further confirm it. I will have to give
some thought to the wishbone idea.
Do you have any of the photo's in digital format? I would like every
picture you have, go ahead and send them to me at home, if you could, those
you want to post I could post also.
I am looking forward to discription of raising, and more unlikely, lowering
of the laced sail.
Next question, Leeboards. Does it have the original leeboards, with the
tensioning line as it lowers? If another set up then describe please and if
you could comment on whatever set up you have, good and bad.
Thanks again for a great reply
Harry James
Juneau
(snip)
Somehow -- MAIB classified ad, I vaguely remember -- I found out that
Richard Zapf, original builder of Red Zinger, had his mainmast and mainsail
for sale. As he was racing the boat competitively - and quite
successfully! - he'd decided to go to a less-bendy aluminum-tube mast
exactly so he could fly a spinnaker without distorting the mainsail-shape --
his original mast is distinctly tapered, and deliberately bendy, unloads the
gusts quite effectively, thank you, but not a good mount for his spinnaker
halyard!
(snip)
For the "tabernackle", upon asking, Bolger sent me a note and a sketch
suggesting a fabbed-up then hot-dipped galvanized steel collar around the
mast (remember to "flare" the upper & lower edges to avoid
stress-concentration / pinching of the mast-fibers as the mast flexes, he
admonished) with aft-facing "ears" either side about 4" above cabin-top
level, to take a pivot-bolt thru galv-steel stands mounted to the upper
surface of the fore-aft partner pieces on the cabin-top. It turns out
there IS exactly enough room for the mast-butt to JUST clear the stem AND
the triangular deck-piece joining the hull-sides -- Bolger was so kind to
have already laid out the geometry in his sketch to me, just to be sure....
AHA! could I fabricate it up out of pre-galvanized off-the-shelf
trailer-parts? yep. There's a type of roller-support, 3/16" steel plate
maybe a foot long bent in an ell-shape with - AHA! - one ear off the top
edge, already drilled for the trailer-roller-axle (my pivot-bolt!!) -- Yeah,
I had to make a few cuts here & there, and a few holes drilled -- but
Pettit's "TrailerCote" (amazing stuff - isocyanate-based aluminum paint--
"superglue" in a can!) sealed up the raw-steel surfaces (and hasn't even
started to "bleed" rust in over a dozen years around salt water!!) I
hose-clamp-banded two or four (can't remember - tarp's still on my boat!) of
these ells around the mast, bolted a couple more onto the deck, and VIOLA! a
pivoting mast-tabernackle! Note that sideways strains are still taken by the
stout wood fore-aft pieces of the original mast-partner.
OK, OK, too many words. Sometime when I figure out how to post photos,
you'll see the contraption...
Now, this ain't no MICRO mast to raise -- the "counterweight" end of the
mast below the pivot is waaaay too short to give any balance-help to raise
it. I take along a ten-foot-long piece of steel c-channel with a block at
the top -- slip it into the hollow-square-tube on the trailer that supports
the trailer-winch, and there's a "tower" some dozen feet up in the air...
trailer winch's line goes up thru that block (oops, forgot to reeve it thru
that block before raising the c-channel -- again! expletive, down comes the
pole, back up again, another two minutes lost toward the "record-fast"
launch....), then pull the winch-line from the top of that pole back to the
loop on the mast where the snotter will attach, and I can slowly crank the
mast up with the trailer winch! I still prefer this to be a two-person job:
it helps to physically heft from under the mast to get it out of the
boom-crutch and up as high as I can reach from the cockpit, as the angle of
the trailer-winch line is miserable till the mast is up to about 20
degrees -- and when the mast comes close to vertical, on windy days it's
essential to have one, sometimes two halyards off the tip of the mast, held
by helpers WAY off to the sides, to be sure the mast doesn't go sideways and
the mast-heel really DOES go between those fore-aft cheeks down in the
forward bilge... But then I'm VERY conservative, never yet gotten into a
parts-breaking "oops" during many mast-raisings.
More photos necessary, I bet.
Reefing:
Red Zinger's main is not simply laced onto the mast, but rides up on a
screwed-on sstl sail-track (the "hat-shaped" type so common on '50's and
'60's wooden marconi-rigged masts.) Therefore, it's easy to lower the sail
down... I have a sstl "reefing hook" bolted to the end of the sprit; it's a
bit of a juggle to unhook the lowermost clew-ring, then re-hook the
first-reef clew-ring... can get to be a handful holding onto the sprit-boom
AND leech when she's trying to snap away from you... I suppose I could rig
up "jiffy-reefing" lines to pull her down to the sprit, eh? The hollow-box
straight sprit just goes further forward (my "snotter" is a three-part
tackle between end-of-sprit and the mast loop, control-line led to deck and
thence to cockpit, so no problem to ease the sprit waaay forward). By the
way, with a laced-on mainsail, It's darned complicated to keep the
snotter-attachment to the mast as you drop the main down to a reefed
position, I never could figure out how to do it... glad mine's on sailtrack,
even if such affectations of so much "hardware" may not be in the Bolger
spirit...
The ineffective sail below the reef is rolled up and tied off with typical
reef-points -- 1/4" lines strung thru grommets in the sail's surface, left
there permanently. That's the only time I need to go forward (and by then
the sail's drawing again, so everything's relatively stable).
I have a second reef-point even higher: this one needs to be lashed to the
mid-point of the sprit-boom, not hooked to the hook at the end of the sprit,
as the sprit doesn't set too well when it's eased THAT far forward from the
snotter....
Red Zinger played with a wishbone-sprit a la Nonsuch Catboats; I have
Richard's elegant wooden version -- haven't gotten around to rigging it yet.
With a "basket" of lines hanging below the foot of the sail, when reefing
there'd be no need to tie-off the dropped sail; it would be trapped by the
hanging basket of lines. The wishbone also would give verry effective
tie-down points, each side of the wishbone-frame, for jiffy-reefing lines to
the various clew cringles, which lines (I believe) could be led forward
along the wishbone, down-to-deck at the mast, and back to cockpit,
eliminating the struggle to grab & control that flailing clew as I now must
do...
Oh yes, one of the handiest sail-shaping tackles I have, is a six!-part
downhaul, it's a standard windsurfer-part: they need incredible power to
pull their sails taut along the luff, so have an ingenious aluminum
(nowadays, 'glass-reinforced plastic) casting, a big hook (perfect size for
my sail's tack-ring) on one end, three tiny sheaves on the other end.... and
a "matching" mast-mounted three-sheave bracket... strung up with 3/16" line
(again led to cockpit), this device plus snotter allow absolut control on
the shape of that big main! I'm constantly twiddling with these to get just
the right fullness for the wind.... (more fun by far than "tuning" my main
on my big Irwin 43 marconi-rigged sloop)
On another post I'll tell of a neat little modification that makes it
POSSIBLE to raise & lower laced-on sails without the lacing binding up on
tapered masts (my mizzen IS laced-on).
Regards,
Wayne Gilham
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http://mail2web.com/.
Wayne
This is great stuff!!!! Its just what I was after. Dont worry about being
wordy, the more you put, the more I learn. If the group gets tired of it we
can move it private.
After looking at the big main, and thinking for a long time I had come to
the conclusion that the only way to reef single handed in rough conditions
would be to use some sort of track arrangement and Jiffy reefing. The sprit
would not go forward. I then read the same conclusion in Michalaks article
on reefing sprit rigs and now you further confirm it. I will have to give
some thought to the wishbone idea.
Do you have any of the photo's in digital format? I would like every
picture you have, go ahead and send them to me at home, if you could, those
you want to post I could post also.
I am looking forward to discription of raising, and more unlikely, lowering
of the laced sail.
Next question, Leeboards. Does it have the original leeboards, with the
tensioning line as it lowers? If another set up then describe please and if
you could comment on whatever set up you have, good and bad.
Thanks again for a great reply
Harry James
Juneau
(snip)
Somehow -- MAIB classified ad, I vaguely remember -- I found out that
Richard Zapf, original builder of Red Zinger, had his mainmast and mainsail
for sale. As he was racing the boat competitively - and quite
successfully! - he'd decided to go to a less-bendy aluminum-tube mast
exactly so he could fly a spinnaker without distorting the mainsail-shape --
his original mast is distinctly tapered, and deliberately bendy, unloads the
gusts quite effectively, thank you, but not a good mount for his spinnaker
halyard!
(snip)
For the "tabernackle", upon asking, Bolger sent me a note and a sketch
suggesting a fabbed-up then hot-dipped galvanized steel collar around the
mast (remember to "flare" the upper & lower edges to avoid
stress-concentration / pinching of the mast-fibers as the mast flexes, he
admonished) with aft-facing "ears" either side about 4" above cabin-top
level, to take a pivot-bolt thru galv-steel stands mounted to the upper
surface of the fore-aft partner pieces on the cabin-top. It turns out
there IS exactly enough room for the mast-butt to JUST clear the stem AND
the triangular deck-piece joining the hull-sides -- Bolger was so kind to
have already laid out the geometry in his sketch to me, just to be sure....
AHA! could I fabricate it up out of pre-galvanized off-the-shelf
trailer-parts? yep. There's a type of roller-support, 3/16" steel plate
maybe a foot long bent in an ell-shape with - AHA! - one ear off the top
edge, already drilled for the trailer-roller-axle (my pivot-bolt!!) -- Yeah,
I had to make a few cuts here & there, and a few holes drilled -- but
Pettit's "TrailerCote" (amazing stuff - isocyanate-based aluminum paint--
"superglue" in a can!) sealed up the raw-steel surfaces (and hasn't even
started to "bleed" rust in over a dozen years around salt water!!) I
hose-clamp-banded two or four (can't remember - tarp's still on my boat!) of
these ells around the mast, bolted a couple more onto the deck, and VIOLA! a
pivoting mast-tabernackle! Note that sideways strains are still taken by the
stout wood fore-aft pieces of the original mast-partner.
OK, OK, too many words. Sometime when I figure out how to post photos,
you'll see the contraption...
Now, this ain't no MICRO mast to raise -- the "counterweight" end of the
mast below the pivot is waaaay too short to give any balance-help to raise
it. I take along a ten-foot-long piece of steel c-channel with a block at
the top -- slip it into the hollow-square-tube on the trailer that supports
the trailer-winch, and there's a "tower" some dozen feet up in the air...
trailer winch's line goes up thru that block (oops, forgot to reeve it thru
that block before raising the c-channel -- again! expletive, down comes the
pole, back up again, another two minutes lost toward the "record-fast"
launch....), then pull the winch-line from the top of that pole back to the
loop on the mast where the snotter will attach, and I can slowly crank the
mast up with the trailer winch! I still prefer this to be a two-person job:
it helps to physically heft from under the mast to get it out of the
boom-crutch and up as high as I can reach from the cockpit, as the angle of
the trailer-winch line is miserable till the mast is up to about 20
degrees -- and when the mast comes close to vertical, on windy days it's
essential to have one, sometimes two halyards off the tip of the mast, held
by helpers WAY off to the sides, to be sure the mast doesn't go sideways and
the mast-heel really DOES go between those fore-aft cheeks down in the
forward bilge... But then I'm VERY conservative, never yet gotten into a
parts-breaking "oops" during many mast-raisings.
More photos necessary, I bet.
Reefing:
Red Zinger's main is not simply laced onto the mast, but rides up on a
screwed-on sstl sail-track (the "hat-shaped" type so common on '50's and
'60's wooden marconi-rigged masts.) Therefore, it's easy to lower the sail
down... I have a sstl "reefing hook" bolted to the end of the sprit; it's a
bit of a juggle to unhook the lowermost clew-ring, then re-hook the
first-reef clew-ring... can get to be a handful holding onto the sprit-boom
AND leech when she's trying to snap away from you... I suppose I could rig
up "jiffy-reefing" lines to pull her down to the sprit, eh? The hollow-box
straight sprit just goes further forward (my "snotter" is a three-part
tackle between end-of-sprit and the mast loop, control-line led to deck and
thence to cockpit, so no problem to ease the sprit waaay forward). By the
way, with a laced-on mainsail, It's darned complicated to keep the
snotter-attachment to the mast as you drop the main down to a reefed
position, I never could figure out how to do it... glad mine's on sailtrack,
even if such affectations of so much "hardware" may not be in the Bolger
spirit...
The ineffective sail below the reef is rolled up and tied off with typical
reef-points -- 1/4" lines strung thru grommets in the sail's surface, left
there permanently. That's the only time I need to go forward (and by then
the sail's drawing again, so everything's relatively stable).
I have a second reef-point even higher: this one needs to be lashed to the
mid-point of the sprit-boom, not hooked to the hook at the end of the sprit,
as the sprit doesn't set too well when it's eased THAT far forward from the
snotter....
Red Zinger played with a wishbone-sprit a la Nonsuch Catboats; I have
Richard's elegant wooden version -- haven't gotten around to rigging it yet.
With a "basket" of lines hanging below the foot of the sail, when reefing
there'd be no need to tie-off the dropped sail; it would be trapped by the
hanging basket of lines. The wishbone also would give verry effective
tie-down points, each side of the wishbone-frame, for jiffy-reefing lines to
the various clew cringles, which lines (I believe) could be led forward
along the wishbone, down-to-deck at the mast, and back to cockpit,
eliminating the struggle to grab & control that flailing clew as I now must
do...
Oh yes, one of the handiest sail-shaping tackles I have, is a six!-part
downhaul, it's a standard windsurfer-part: they need incredible power to
pull their sails taut along the luff, so have an ingenious aluminum
(nowadays, 'glass-reinforced plastic) casting, a big hook (perfect size for
my sail's tack-ring) on one end, three tiny sheaves on the other end.... and
a "matching" mast-mounted three-sheave bracket... strung up with 3/16" line
(again led to cockpit), this device plus snotter allow absolut control on
the shape of that big main! I'm constantly twiddling with these to get just
the right fullness for the wind.... (more fun by far than "tuning" my main
on my big Irwin 43 marconi-rigged sloop)
On another post I'll tell of a neat little modification that makes it
POSSIBLE to raise & lower laced-on sails without the lacing binding up on
tapered masts (my mizzen IS laced-on).
Regards,
Wayne Gilham
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/.
(Is this "correspondence too bulky?")
HJ: Guess what happens when a solid 5" round mast made up of laminated fir
1x6's is stored on the ground? Little mushrooms sprout out of the
end-grain... (I SAID she was "tired & beat" when I got her....). As one,
maybe two, of the laminations was pulp -- and in the way of the mast
partners at that -- I felt the original mast was best used to stoke the
fireplace that winter. Now, do I REALLY want to build that big spar from
scratch?, naw, I'm inherently shy of BIG projects... (remember I BOUGHT my
bolger-boat already finished -- and almost finished-off.... in retrospect,
might have been easier to build from scratch, compared to some of the nasty
rebuilds I endured...)
Somehow -- MAIB classified ad, I vaguely remember -- I found out that
Richard Zapf, original builder of Red Zinger, had his mainmast and mainsail
for sale. As he was racing the boat competitively - and quite
successfully! - he'd decided to go to a less-bendy aluminum-tube mast
exactly so he could fly a spinnaker without distorting the mainsail-shape --
his original mast is distinctly tapered, and deliberately bendy, unloads the
gusts quite effectively, thank you, but not a good mount for his spinnaker
halyard!
Quick measurements plan-to-plan told me this rig was close-enough, so a
bouncy-empty-boattrailer trip Philly to Boston, then a
many-red-flags-on-that-mast-tip-waaaaaaay-back-there trip back.... and I had
a square-section mast to put into a round-section mast-partner....hmmmm.....
Retaining the fore-aft partner cheeks both at cabin-top level and down at
the mast-step level, I cut away the forward 'thwartship pieces, and squared
out the remaining throats.
For the forward-opening (!) mast-step, I built a wacky plywood u-shaped box
that fits in from forward, reaching around the mast butt, and hooks onto the
aft edges of the fore-aft pieces. This removable box was originally held
down with just pivoting cupboard-hooks; I later got nervous/chicken and now
bolt the box down with lag-screws after raising the mast...
For the "tabernackle", upon asking, Bolger sent me a note and a sketch
suggesting a fabbed-up then hot-dipped galvanized steel collar around the
mast (remember to "flare" the upper & lower edges to avoid
stress-concentration / pinching of the mast-fibers as the mast flexes, he
admonished) with aft-facing "ears" either side about 4" above cabin-top
level, to take a pivot-bolt thru galv-steel stands mounted to the upper
surface of the fore-aft partner pieces on the cabin-top. It turns out
there IS exactly enough room for the mast-butt to JUST clear the stem AND
the triangular deck-piece joining the hull-sides -- Bolger was so kind to
have already laid out the geometry in his sketch to me, just to be sure....
It's eay enough to find a welder to whip up such a fabrication, but d'ya
know, I searched IN VAIN for any shop in the Philly area that would be
willing to hot-dip-galvanize just three relatively small pieces -- every
shop contacted would be glad to do it for their minimum charge of, oh say,
around $300.... back to the moaning chair.
AHA! could I fabricate it up out of pre-galvanized off-the-shelf
trailer-parts? yep. There's a type of roller-support, 3/16" steel plate
maybe a foot long bent in an ell-shape with - AHA! - one ear off the top
edge, already drilled for the trailer-roller-axle (my pivot-bolt!!) -- Yeah,
I had to make a few cuts here & there, and a few holes drilled -- but
Pettit's "TrailerCote" (amazing stuff - isocyanate-based aluminum paint--
"superglue" in a can!) sealed up the raw-steel surfaces (and hasn't even
started to "bleed" rust in over a dozen years around salt water!!) I
hose-clamp-banded two or four (can't remember - tarp's still on my boat!) of
these ells around the mast, bolted a couple more onto the deck, and VIOLA! a
pivoting mast-tabernackle! Note that sideways strains are still taken by the
stout wood fore-aft pieces of the original mast-partner.
OK, OK, too many words. Sometime when I figure out how to post photos,
you'll see the contraption...
Now, this ain't no MICRO mast to raise -- the "counterweight" end of the
mast below the pivot is waaaay too short to give any balance-help to raise
it. I take along a ten-foot-long piece of steel c-channel with a block at
the top -- slip it into the hollow-square-tube on the trailer that supports
the trailer-winch, and there's a "tower" some dozen feet up in the air...
trailer winch's line goes up thru that block (oops, forgot to reeve it thru
that block before raising the c-channel -- again! expletive, down comes the
pole, back up again, another two minutes lost toward the "record-fast"
launch....), then pull the winch-line from the top of that pole back to the
loop on the mast where the snotter will attach, and I can slowly crank the
mast up with the trailer winch! I still prefer this to be a two-person job:
it helps to physically heft from under the mast to get it out of the
boom-crutch and up as high as I can reach from the cockpit, as the angle of
the trailer-winch line is miserable till the mast is up to about 20
degrees -- and when the mast comes close to vertical, on windy days it's
essential to have one, sometimes two halyards off the tip of the mast, held
by helpers WAY off to the sides, to be sure the mast doesn't go sideways and
the mast-heel really DOES go between those fore-aft cheeks down in the
forward bilge... But then I'm VERY conservative, never yet gotten into a
parts-breaking "oops" during many mast-raisings.
More photos necessary, I bet.
Reefing:
Red Zinger's main is not simply laced onto the mast, but rides up on a
screwed-on sstl sail-track (the "hat-shaped" type so common on '50's and
'60's wooden marconi-rigged masts.) Therefore, it's easy to lower the sail
down... I have a sstl "reefing hook" bolted to the end of the sprit; it's a
bit of a juggle to unhook the lowermost clew-ring, then re-hook the
first-reef clew-ring... can get to be a handful holding onto the sprit-boom
AND leech when she's trying to snap away from you... I suppose I could rig
up "jiffy-reefing" lines to pull her down to the sprit, eh? The hollow-box
straight sprit just goes further forward (my "snotter" is a three-part
tackle between end-of-sprit and the mast loop, control-line led to deck and
thence to cockpit, so no problem to ease the sprit waaay forward). By the
way, with a laced-on mainsail, It's darned complicated to keep the
snotter-attachment to the mast as you drop the main down to a reefed
position, I never could figure out how to do it... glad mine's on sailtrack,
even if such affectations of so much "hardware" may not be in the Bolger
spirit...
The ineffective sail below the reef is rolled up and tied off with typical
reef-points -- 1/4" lines strung thru grommets in the sail's surface, left
there permanently. That's the only time I need to go forward (and by then
the sail's drawing again, so everything's relatively stable).
I have a second reef-point even higher: this one needs to be lashed to the
mid-point of the sprit-boom, not hooked to the hook at the end of the sprit,
as the sprit doesn't set too well when it's eased THAT far forward from the
snotter....
Red Zinger played with a wishbone-sprit a la Nonsuch Catboats; I have
Richard's elegant wooden version -- haven't gotten around to rigging it yet.
With a "basket" of lines hanging below the foot of the sail, when reefing
there'd be no need to tie-off the dropped sail; it would be trapped by the
hanging basket of lines. The wishbone also would give verry effective
tie-down points, each side of the wishbone-frame, for jiffy-reefing lines to
the various clew cringles, which lines (I believe) could be led forward
along the wishbone, down-to-deck at the mast, and back to cockpit,
eliminating the struggle to grab & control that flailing clew as I now must
do...
Oh yes, one of the handiest sail-shaping tackles I have, is a six!-part
downhaul, it's a standard windsurfer-part: they need incredible power to
pull their sails taut along the luff, so have an ingenious aluminum
(nowadays, 'glass-reinforced plastic) casting, a big hook (perfect size for
my sail's tack-ring) on one end, three tiny sheaves on the other end.... and
a "matching" mast-mounted three-sheave bracket... strung up with 3/16" line
(again led to cockpit), this device plus snotter allow absolut control on
the shape of that big main! I'm constantly twiddling with these to get just
the right fullness for the wind.... (more fun by far than "tuning" my main
on my big Irwin 43 marconi-rigged sloop)
On another post I'll tell of a neat little modification that makes it
POSSIBLE to raise & lower laced-on sails without the lacing binding up on
tapered masts (my mizzen IS laced-on).
Regards,
Wayne Gilham
HJ: Guess what happens when a solid 5" round mast made up of laminated fir
1x6's is stored on the ground? Little mushrooms sprout out of the
end-grain... (I SAID she was "tired & beat" when I got her....). As one,
maybe two, of the laminations was pulp -- and in the way of the mast
partners at that -- I felt the original mast was best used to stoke the
fireplace that winter. Now, do I REALLY want to build that big spar from
scratch?, naw, I'm inherently shy of BIG projects... (remember I BOUGHT my
bolger-boat already finished -- and almost finished-off.... in retrospect,
might have been easier to build from scratch, compared to some of the nasty
rebuilds I endured...)
Somehow -- MAIB classified ad, I vaguely remember -- I found out that
Richard Zapf, original builder of Red Zinger, had his mainmast and mainsail
for sale. As he was racing the boat competitively - and quite
successfully! - he'd decided to go to a less-bendy aluminum-tube mast
exactly so he could fly a spinnaker without distorting the mainsail-shape --
his original mast is distinctly tapered, and deliberately bendy, unloads the
gusts quite effectively, thank you, but not a good mount for his spinnaker
halyard!
Quick measurements plan-to-plan told me this rig was close-enough, so a
bouncy-empty-boattrailer trip Philly to Boston, then a
many-red-flags-on-that-mast-tip-waaaaaaay-back-there trip back.... and I had
a square-section mast to put into a round-section mast-partner....hmmmm.....
Retaining the fore-aft partner cheeks both at cabin-top level and down at
the mast-step level, I cut away the forward 'thwartship pieces, and squared
out the remaining throats.
For the forward-opening (!) mast-step, I built a wacky plywood u-shaped box
that fits in from forward, reaching around the mast butt, and hooks onto the
aft edges of the fore-aft pieces. This removable box was originally held
down with just pivoting cupboard-hooks; I later got nervous/chicken and now
bolt the box down with lag-screws after raising the mast...
For the "tabernackle", upon asking, Bolger sent me a note and a sketch
suggesting a fabbed-up then hot-dipped galvanized steel collar around the
mast (remember to "flare" the upper & lower edges to avoid
stress-concentration / pinching of the mast-fibers as the mast flexes, he
admonished) with aft-facing "ears" either side about 4" above cabin-top
level, to take a pivot-bolt thru galv-steel stands mounted to the upper
surface of the fore-aft partner pieces on the cabin-top. It turns out
there IS exactly enough room for the mast-butt to JUST clear the stem AND
the triangular deck-piece joining the hull-sides -- Bolger was so kind to
have already laid out the geometry in his sketch to me, just to be sure....
It's eay enough to find a welder to whip up such a fabrication, but d'ya
know, I searched IN VAIN for any shop in the Philly area that would be
willing to hot-dip-galvanize just three relatively small pieces -- every
shop contacted would be glad to do it for their minimum charge of, oh say,
around $300.... back to the moaning chair.
AHA! could I fabricate it up out of pre-galvanized off-the-shelf
trailer-parts? yep. There's a type of roller-support, 3/16" steel plate
maybe a foot long bent in an ell-shape with - AHA! - one ear off the top
edge, already drilled for the trailer-roller-axle (my pivot-bolt!!) -- Yeah,
I had to make a few cuts here & there, and a few holes drilled -- but
Pettit's "TrailerCote" (amazing stuff - isocyanate-based aluminum paint--
"superglue" in a can!) sealed up the raw-steel surfaces (and hasn't even
started to "bleed" rust in over a dozen years around salt water!!) I
hose-clamp-banded two or four (can't remember - tarp's still on my boat!) of
these ells around the mast, bolted a couple more onto the deck, and VIOLA! a
pivoting mast-tabernackle! Note that sideways strains are still taken by the
stout wood fore-aft pieces of the original mast-partner.
OK, OK, too many words. Sometime when I figure out how to post photos,
you'll see the contraption...
Now, this ain't no MICRO mast to raise -- the "counterweight" end of the
mast below the pivot is waaaay too short to give any balance-help to raise
it. I take along a ten-foot-long piece of steel c-channel with a block at
the top -- slip it into the hollow-square-tube on the trailer that supports
the trailer-winch, and there's a "tower" some dozen feet up in the air...
trailer winch's line goes up thru that block (oops, forgot to reeve it thru
that block before raising the c-channel -- again! expletive, down comes the
pole, back up again, another two minutes lost toward the "record-fast"
launch....), then pull the winch-line from the top of that pole back to the
loop on the mast where the snotter will attach, and I can slowly crank the
mast up with the trailer winch! I still prefer this to be a two-person job:
it helps to physically heft from under the mast to get it out of the
boom-crutch and up as high as I can reach from the cockpit, as the angle of
the trailer-winch line is miserable till the mast is up to about 20
degrees -- and when the mast comes close to vertical, on windy days it's
essential to have one, sometimes two halyards off the tip of the mast, held
by helpers WAY off to the sides, to be sure the mast doesn't go sideways and
the mast-heel really DOES go between those fore-aft cheeks down in the
forward bilge... But then I'm VERY conservative, never yet gotten into a
parts-breaking "oops" during many mast-raisings.
More photos necessary, I bet.
Reefing:
Red Zinger's main is not simply laced onto the mast, but rides up on a
screwed-on sstl sail-track (the "hat-shaped" type so common on '50's and
'60's wooden marconi-rigged masts.) Therefore, it's easy to lower the sail
down... I have a sstl "reefing hook" bolted to the end of the sprit; it's a
bit of a juggle to unhook the lowermost clew-ring, then re-hook the
first-reef clew-ring... can get to be a handful holding onto the sprit-boom
AND leech when she's trying to snap away from you... I suppose I could rig
up "jiffy-reefing" lines to pull her down to the sprit, eh? The hollow-box
straight sprit just goes further forward (my "snotter" is a three-part
tackle between end-of-sprit and the mast loop, control-line led to deck and
thence to cockpit, so no problem to ease the sprit waaay forward). By the
way, with a laced-on mainsail, It's darned complicated to keep the
snotter-attachment to the mast as you drop the main down to a reefed
position, I never could figure out how to do it... glad mine's on sailtrack,
even if such affectations of so much "hardware" may not be in the Bolger
spirit...
The ineffective sail below the reef is rolled up and tied off with typical
reef-points -- 1/4" lines strung thru grommets in the sail's surface, left
there permanently. That's the only time I need to go forward (and by then
the sail's drawing again, so everything's relatively stable).
I have a second reef-point even higher: this one needs to be lashed to the
mid-point of the sprit-boom, not hooked to the hook at the end of the sprit,
as the sprit doesn't set too well when it's eased THAT far forward from the
snotter....
Red Zinger played with a wishbone-sprit a la Nonsuch Catboats; I have
Richard's elegant wooden version -- haven't gotten around to rigging it yet.
With a "basket" of lines hanging below the foot of the sail, when reefing
there'd be no need to tie-off the dropped sail; it would be trapped by the
hanging basket of lines. The wishbone also would give verry effective
tie-down points, each side of the wishbone-frame, for jiffy-reefing lines to
the various clew cringles, which lines (I believe) could be led forward
along the wishbone, down-to-deck at the mast, and back to cockpit,
eliminating the struggle to grab & control that flailing clew as I now must
do...
Oh yes, one of the handiest sail-shaping tackles I have, is a six!-part
downhaul, it's a standard windsurfer-part: they need incredible power to
pull their sails taut along the luff, so have an ingenious aluminum
(nowadays, 'glass-reinforced plastic) casting, a big hook (perfect size for
my sail's tack-ring) on one end, three tiny sheaves on the other end.... and
a "matching" mast-mounted three-sheave bracket... strung up with 3/16" line
(again led to cockpit), this device plus snotter allow absolut control on
the shape of that big main! I'm constantly twiddling with these to get just
the right fullness for the wind.... (more fun by far than "tuning" my main
on my big Irwin 43 marconi-rigged sloop)
On another post I'll tell of a neat little modification that makes it
POSSIBLE to raise & lower laced-on sails without the lacing binding up on
tapered masts (my mizzen IS laced-on).
Regards,
Wayne Gilham
----- Original Message -----
From: <welshman@...>
To: <wgilham@...>
Cc: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: Black Skimmer
> Wayne
>
> I will toss out just some of the questions here rather than tire you out
> with writing a book at one sitting. A chapter at a time.
>
> First, the Red Zinger rig. What is the story behind that? Does your boat
> have the original Red Zinger rig? If so, why? As published in BWAOM the
> luff is the same, the foot is longer and the mizzen is about 15 sq. ft
less
> for a total of 317 sq. ft vice 304 for the Black Skimmer rig. It sounds
> like the rig is changed since you bought the boat, an exposition on what
> and why would be appreciated.
>
> Do you have pictures of your tabernacle? I am thinking that a way to deal
> with the mast trailering is make a removable A Frame mount on the trailer
> for putting it up like some of the Thunderbird people do. The Black
Skimmer
> is not a boat you would trailer for a day sail. In an out for a weekend or
> a season.
>
> How about reefing, have you done it when you really needed it, how
> difficult was it. How was sail set afterwards. Any other comments on the
> sails, rigging, sheeting, modifications you did or thought of and haven't
> done.
>
> This completes the questions on the rig. Next "THE HULL", prepare
yourself.
>
> I will CC this to the Bolger Group and we can continue there unless the
> correspondence gets too bulky.
>
> Thank you for your help, I really appreciated your comments on actual
> weight. Real experience is so much better than opinion.
>
> HJ
Wayne
I will toss out just some of the questions here rather than tire you out
with writing a book at one sitting. A chapter at a time.
First, the Red Zinger rig. What is the story behind that? Does your boat
have the original Red Zinger rig? If so, why? As published in BWAOM the
luff is the same, the foot is longer and the mizzen is about 15 sq. ft less
for a total of 317 sq. ft vice 304 for the Black Skimmer rig. It sounds
like the rig is changed since you bought the boat, an exposition on what
and why would be appreciated.
Do you have pictures of your tabernacle? I am thinking that a way to deal
with the mast trailering is make a removable A Frame mount on the trailer
for putting it up like some of the Thunderbird people do. The Black Skimmer
is not a boat you would trailer for a day sail. In an out for a weekend or
a season.
How about reefing, have you done it when you really needed it, how
difficult was it. How was sail set afterwards. Any other comments on the
sails, rigging, sheeting, modifications you did or thought of and haven't
done.
This completes the questions on the rig. Next "THE HULL", prepare yourself.
I will CC this to the Bolger Group and we can continue there unless the
correspondence gets too bulky.
Thank you for your help, I really appreciated your comments on actual
weight. Real experience is so much better than opinion.
HJ
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Black Skimmer
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 20:25:06 -0700
From: "Wayne Gilham" <wgilham@...>
To: "Harry James" <welshman@...>
References: <3EC7AD8C.8010302@...>
I'll do what I can... it's been a few years since I've sailed her (she's on
her trailer in the driveway, but work and my other boat - Irwin 43 - take up
too much itme to slap 'nother coat of paint at "rayador & get her launched)
Please understand: I did not build her (bought her already tired and beat, I
believe she was built in the early '80's) so I cannot advise on any of the
construction sequences. But I've done a few modifications that I think make
her easier to sail; glad to share these, you might choose to incorporate
them as you build...
Fire away with your questions, I'll see what I can contribute.
Shall we put subsequent correspondences on the group?
Regards, Wayne Gilham
I will toss out just some of the questions here rather than tire you out
with writing a book at one sitting. A chapter at a time.
First, the Red Zinger rig. What is the story behind that? Does your boat
have the original Red Zinger rig? If so, why? As published in BWAOM the
luff is the same, the foot is longer and the mizzen is about 15 sq. ft less
for a total of 317 sq. ft vice 304 for the Black Skimmer rig. It sounds
like the rig is changed since you bought the boat, an exposition on what
and why would be appreciated.
Do you have pictures of your tabernacle? I am thinking that a way to deal
with the mast trailering is make a removable A Frame mount on the trailer
for putting it up like some of the Thunderbird people do. The Black Skimmer
is not a boat you would trailer for a day sail. In an out for a weekend or
a season.
How about reefing, have you done it when you really needed it, how
difficult was it. How was sail set afterwards. Any other comments on the
sails, rigging, sheeting, modifications you did or thought of and haven't
done.
This completes the questions on the rig. Next "THE HULL", prepare yourself.
I will CC this to the Bolger Group and we can continue there unless the
correspondence gets too bulky.
Thank you for your help, I really appreciated your comments on actual
weight. Real experience is so much better than opinion.
HJ
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Black Skimmer
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 20:25:06 -0700
From: "Wayne Gilham" <wgilham@...>
To: "Harry James" <welshman@...>
References: <3EC7AD8C.8010302@...>
I'll do what I can... it's been a few years since I've sailed her (she's on
her trailer in the driveway, but work and my other boat - Irwin 43 - take up
too much itme to slap 'nother coat of paint at "rayador & get her launched)
Please understand: I did not build her (bought her already tired and beat, I
believe she was built in the early '80's) so I cannot advise on any of the
construction sequences. But I've done a few modifications that I think make
her easier to sail; glad to share these, you might choose to incorporate
them as you build...
Fire away with your questions, I'll see what I can contribute.
Shall we put subsequent correspondences on the group?
Regards, Wayne Gilham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry James"
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2003 8:58 AM
Subject: Black Skimmer
> Wayne
>
> Thank you for your reply to the Bolger group on your Black Skimmer's
> displacement.
>
> I recently bought the plans from Payson. I don't know yet if I will
> build one, I have several projects to finish up first. If I do, I would
> probably start next winter.
>
> I have a whole list of questions, if you wouldn't mind corresponding
> with me about your boat.
>
> Harry James
> Juneau AK.
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/.
I won't suggest that my long suffering spouse muttered anything
like "What, not ANOTHER bloody boat! You haven't finished the two
you're..." because she didn't. Lord knoiws why. The main reason, is I
don't have time or trailler. I'm leaving for Mexico and the West
Coast on Tuesday, and can't fit in an expedition to pick up a ton of
boat in time.
But I can't take it on, no matter how much I'd love to. Ned Asplundh
is going to try for it. I hope he, or somelse on the group gets it,
I'd love to cadge a ride someday..
Bruce Hector
Shipwreck Art, I posted some of my watercolours of Kingston's many
shipwrecks at
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/freeboatexchange/lst
like "What, not ANOTHER bloody boat! You haven't finished the two
you're..." because she didn't. Lord knoiws why. The main reason, is I
don't have time or trailler. I'm leaving for Mexico and the West
Coast on Tuesday, and can't fit in an expedition to pick up a ton of
boat in time.
But I can't take it on, no matter how much I'd love to. Ned Asplundh
is going to try for it. I hope he, or somelse on the group gets it,
I'd love to cadge a ride someday..
Bruce Hector
Shipwreck Art, I posted some of my watercolours of Kingston's many
shipwrecks at
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/freeboatexchange/lst
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "rdchamberland <cha62759@t...>"
<cha62759@t...> wrote:
s.w. arkansas? or n.w. Louisiana? i live in n.e.texas and within 2-3
hours for these areas. also for you guys that have "boat stuff" or
car,motorcycle,aircraft,farm stuff that you need to get rid of,,,or
the wife says you go if it doesn't,,,i can come get it. i may need
gas money just depends,but i might could put a "material storage
facility" together(if my wife will let me;). it might could be a swap-
a-part site. got 80 acres for,,, stuff,i don't think the cows will
mind. we'll see. what do you think of it? your opinions please. robby
<cha62759@t...> wrote:
> I have just received the latest issue of "Woodenboat". In the "BoatsSkimmer"
> for Free" section in the classifieds there is listed a "Black
> The boat is located in eastern PA.did they happen to mention any free boats in the texas? s.e.oklahoma?
> Bob Chamberland
s.w. arkansas? or n.w. Louisiana? i live in n.e.texas and within 2-3
hours for these areas. also for you guys that have "boat stuff" or
car,motorcycle,aircraft,farm stuff that you need to get rid of,,,or
the wife says you go if it doesn't,,,i can come get it. i may need
gas money just depends,but i might could put a "material storage
facility" together(if my wife will let me;). it might could be a swap-
a-part site. got 80 acres for,,, stuff,i don't think the cows will
mind. we'll see. what do you think of it? your opinions please. robby
Now I will have to wait until tomorrow night's emailing to find out the rest
of the story. From the first time I read folding schooner I have lusted to
sail a Black Skimmer.
Go get em Bruce!
HJ
of the story. From the first time I read folding schooner I have lusted to
sail a Black Skimmer.
Go get em Bruce!
HJ
> Free! Free! Free? Did you say a Free Black Skimmer in PA?
> Do you have the phone number? Wow! I don't want to sound like Eyore
> when he found his tail but, ..... did you say Free!
>
> Are you sure it said FREE? PA is only 4 hours away and I have a truck.
>
> The Canadian version of WB won't arrive for weeks, if you can post
> any details, (such as a phone number) please do. I only have this
> coming weekend to do a recovery before we head south to where they're
> not speaking English. Thanks.
>
> Bruce HEctor
>http://www.brucesboats.com
> Wondering what the %$&* I'm doing building a Micro from scratch when
> deals like this are about.
>
Bruce; the add reads...
25' BOLGER BLACK SKIMMER leeboard cat-ketch sharpie. CB
trunk conversion, 75% complete, WEST system. Sound but in
need TLC, no known rot, mizzen and sprits included, but no main
mast or sails. 10" draft. Eastern PA, 215-348-0596,
<pce02@...>
As to why the %$&* you are building, isn't it for the joy of it?
Good luck,
Vance
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector
<bruce_hector@h...>" <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
25' BOLGER BLACK SKIMMER leeboard cat-ketch sharpie. CB
trunk conversion, 75% complete, WEST system. Sound but in
need TLC, no known rot, mizzen and sprits included, but no main
mast or sails. 10" draft. Eastern PA, 215-348-0596,
<pce02@...>
As to why the %$&* you are building, isn't it for the joy of it?
Good luck,
Vance
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector
<bruce_hector@h...>" <bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
> The Canadian version of WB won't arrive for weeks, if you canpost
> any details, (such as a phone number) please do.scratch when
>
> Bruce HEctor
>http://www.brucesboats.com
> Wondering what the %$&* I'm doing building a Micro from
> deals like this are about.
25' Bolger Black Skimmer, leeboardcat-ketch sharpie. CB trunck
conversion75% completed. WEST systems, Sound but in need of TLC. No
known rot. Mizzen and sprits but no main mast or sails. 10" draft.
Eastern PA. 215-348-0596 <pcc02@...>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@h...>"
<bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
conversion75% completed. WEST systems, Sound but in need of TLC. No
known rot. Mizzen and sprits but no main mast or sails. 10" draft.
Eastern PA. 215-348-0596 <pcc02@...>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hector <bruce_hector@h...>"
<bruce_hector@h...> wrote:
> Free! Free! Free? Did you say a Free Black Skimmer in PA?truck.
> Do you have the phone number? Wow! I don't want to sound like Eyore
> when he found his tail but, ..... did you say Free!
>
> Are you sure it said FREE? PA is only 4 hours away and I have a
>they're
> The Canadian version of WB won't arrive for weeks, if you can post
> any details, (such as a phone number) please do. I only have this
> coming weekend to do a recovery before we head south to where
> not speaking English. Thanks.when
>
> Bruce HEctor
>http://www.brucesboats.com
> Wondering what the %$&* I'm doing building a Micro from scratch
> deals like this are about.
Free! Free! Free? Did you say a Free Black Skimmer in PA?
Do you have the phone number? Wow! I don't want to sound like Eyore
when he found his tail but, ..... did you say Free!
Are you sure it said FREE? PA is only 4 hours away and I have a truck.
The Canadian version of WB won't arrive for weeks, if you can post
any details, (such as a phone number) please do. I only have this
coming weekend to do a recovery before we head south to where they're
not speaking English. Thanks.
Bruce HEctor
http://www.brucesboats.com
Wondering what the %$&* I'm doing building a Micro from scratch when
deals like this are about.
Do you have the phone number? Wow! I don't want to sound like Eyore
when he found his tail but, ..... did you say Free!
Are you sure it said FREE? PA is only 4 hours away and I have a truck.
The Canadian version of WB won't arrive for weeks, if you can post
any details, (such as a phone number) please do. I only have this
coming weekend to do a recovery before we head south to where they're
not speaking English. Thanks.
Bruce HEctor
http://www.brucesboats.com
Wondering what the %$&* I'm doing building a Micro from scratch when
deals like this are about.
I have just received the latest issue of "Woodenboat". In the "Boats
for Free" section in the classifieds there is listed a "Black Skimmer"
The boat is located in eastern PA.
Bob Chamberland
for Free" section in the classifieds there is listed a "Black Skimmer"
The boat is located in eastern PA.
Bob Chamberland
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "george marousek"
<marousek@e...> wrote:
http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/merrellc1/
this shows the original design.
and this, with many other Bolger boats, Black Skimmer is under
"Bed and Breakfast..." and shows a more trailerable option.
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sites2.htm
Vance
<marousek@e...> wrote:
> does anyone have a pix of this boat design? Would appreciateTry this, Essay No. 12
> receiving one.
http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/merrellc1/
this shows the original design.
and this, with many other Bolger boats, Black Skimmer is under
"Bed and Breakfast..." and shows a more trailerable option.
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/sites2.htm
Vance
does anyone have a pix of this boat design? Would appreciate
receiving one.
receiving one.