Re: A family motor/sail cruiser?

Thanks for the tip, Bruce!

If anyone else, like me, was a little confused by Bruce's links, here is a direct link to his
Abbondanza 24 scans from MAIB:

http://hallman.org/bolger/652/

Those scans are exactly what Phil sent me, though of course the drawings that I received
are clearer.

As for the letter, this is what Phil wrote me, dated 5/13/06:

"Dear Mr. Long,

Thanks for yours of May 9. The enclosed study material is as close as we can come
with an extant design to your wish list. With an awning over the cockpit and perhaps a
longer helm shelter, it looks as though it might just do it if the costing works out. We can
not undertake any modifications to it at this time.

Plans of Abbondanza 24, our Design #652, are available for $300.00 to build one boat,
sent priority mail, rolled in a tube.

Sincerely,

Phil Bolger"

I am intrigued by the design, which might well fit our needs. The bulwarks and rails aft
and high rails forward are appealing to me with three little kids to keep out of harm's way.
I'll keep thinking, and follow up once I get to Tunis.

Cheers all,

Matthew
> If anyone has this issue and wouldn't mind scanning and posting the
> article to one of the shadow groups, I will sit down to type up Phil's
> comments when I get a chance.

I really would like to read Phil's comments, please share them when
you get a chance.

I am not a big fan of the 'shadow groups' mostly because the indexing
is so primative as to be essentially unusable, social bookmarking is
much more versitile, I like:

http://del.icio.us/tag/bolger

and also

http://flickr.com/groups/bolgerboats/pool/
http://flickr.com/photos/tags/bolger/

Scans of the Abbondanza article have been online since 2004.

http://del.icio.us/tag/bolger+Abbondanza
All,

I received a manila envelope from Phil and Suzanne today with a short
note and what appears to be the text and illustrations sent to Messing
About in Boats for Volume 16, Issue 12, p. 28, "Abbondanza 24: Design
#652 for Stephen Young." This is a 24' x 8'3" x 1'11" steel fishing
boat with self-bailing aft deck, a small center-mounted pilot house
and forward raised deck with a cuddy under and high railings.

If anyone has this issue and wouldn't mind scanning and posting the
article to one of the shadow groups, I will sit down to type up Phil's
comments when I get a chance.

More to come...

Cheers,

Matthew
I sent the fax to Phil and Suzanne moments ago, repeating my laundry
list as described earlier in this thread and referencing three
designs for inspiration: Bolger's Merlin/Marina Cruiser, Buehler's
Julian Adderly and Atkin's Liza Jane.

My (probably unrealistic) budget is $10,000 for a bare boat, $20,000
with spartan fitting out (motor but no electronics), keeping in mind
this is at low labour rates and with low-tech solutions. I am not
looking to commission a design, only for a suggestion of an existing
design, published or unpublished, that might work.

I'll let you know what the man (and woman) say!

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
<owlnmole@...> wrote:
>
> Lion's Paw is lovely, but I think a little too much boat for me.
As
> someone suggested earlier, I will write Phil and Suzanne and ask
them
> if anything springs to mind.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@> wrote:
> >
> > I believe the sharpie schooner, Lions Paw was designed for steel
> > construction? Sleeps five. I bet a charter company might be
> interested
> > in it too!
> >
> > See the cartoon here:
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerCartoons/files
> >
> > Nels
>
Lion's Paw is lovely, but I think a little too much boat for me. As
someone suggested earlier, I will write Phil and Suzanne and ask them
if anything springs to mind.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> I believe the sharpie schooner, Lions Paw was designed for steel
> construction? Sleeps five. I bet a charter company might be
interested
> in it too!
>
> See the cartoon here:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerCartoons/files
>
> Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Michael Collins <boats@...> wrote:
>
>
I believe the sharpie schooner, Lions Paw was designed for steel
construction? Sleeps five. I bet a charter company might be interested
in it too!

See the cartoon here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerCartoons/files

Nels
Sam Glasscock wrote:

> Anyone with access to Boats with an Open Mind could
> tell you the name of the steel passagemeker/cruiser

Shady Lady










> there, which was built and was, I believe, a very
> successful design, as I recall about a forty-footer
> with simple box keel construction and modest diesel
> power. It was recently for sale, and looked really
> nice, with a very workable engine room and nice
> accomodations. Sorry I can't remeber the name.
>
> --- The Peillet-Long Family <owlnmole@...>
> wrote:
>
> > I have located a professional shipyard in Tunisia
> > that does
> > commercial and yacht-type boats in steel. Any
> > suggestions for a
> > simple steel design, Bolger or other, that might fit
> > the bill--
> > modest diesel power, with or without sails, somewhat
> > traditional
> > looks (for resale) and overnight accommodations for
> > an adult and
> > three small children (call it four adults)?
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long
> > Family"
> > <owlnmole@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Greetings, all!
> > >
> > > I've been away from this group for a long time,
> > but some of you
> > may
> > > remember me from the past or have seen my
> > long-neglected web site
> > > <http://www.geocities.com/owlnmole> on building
> > Brick and Yellow
> > > Leaf. Lincoln Ross, if you're out there, still
> > have Tetard?
> > >
> > > In any case, my family and I are continuing our
> > gypsy lifestyle
> > with
> > > a move to Tunisia for three years this summer and
> > I am thinking of
> > > tackling a modest family cruiser project, or
> > perhaps having it
> > built.
> > >
> > > We have three small children, ages 1-7, so I am
> > looking for
> > > something large enough for safe (read hard to fall
> > overboard) day
> > > trips and the occasional overnight adventure.
> > Some could sleep
> > > under a tent for the overnight part, but I would
> > want bunks for at
> > > least two people, a small galley and a chemical
> > toilet.
> > >
> > > Performance needs are modest--straight motor or
> > motor/sail
> > > auxiliary, probably a small diesel engine.
> > >
> > > My first thought is Bolger Marina Cruiser/Merlin
> > design, with or
> > > without the auxiliary lug sail, but I'd love to
> > hear other
> > > suggestions. Low cost and fast, easy building are
> > critical, since
> > > who knows where our next assignment will take us.
> > >
> > > Thanks and regards to all,
> > >
> > > Matthew
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
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> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
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> Fax: (978) 282-1349
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>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shady Lady is the design I had in mind. Thanks,
Stefan.

--- Stefan Probst <stefan.probst@opticom.v-nam.net>
wrote:

> --- Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
> >
> > Anyone with access to Boats with an Open Mind
> could
> > tell you the name of the steel
> passagemeker/cruiser
> > there, which was built and was, I believe, a very
> > successful design, as I recall about a
> forty-footer
> > with simple box keel construction and modest
> diesel
> > power. It was recently for sale, and looked
> really
> > nice, with a very workable engine room and nice
> > accomodations. Sorry I can't remeber the name.
>
> You can see the table of content on Amazon.
>
> Was it "Shady Lady"?
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
> First, I suggest emailing PCB ...


I should have said "faxing". They don't do email.
--- Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
>
> Anyone with access to Boats with an Open Mind could
> tell you the name of the steel passagemeker/cruiser
> there, which was built and was, I believe, a very
> successful design, as I recall about a forty-footer
> with simple box keel construction and modest diesel
> power. It was recently for sale, and looked really
> nice, with a very workable engine room and nice
> accomodations. Sorry I can't remeber the name.

You can see the table of content on Amazon.

Was it "Shady Lady"?

Stefan
Anyone with access to Boats with an Open Mind could
tell you the name of the steel passagemeker/cruiser
there, which was built and was, I believe, a very
successful design, as I recall about a forty-footer
with simple box keel construction and modest diesel
power. It was recently for sale, and looked really
nice, with a very workable engine room and nice
accomodations. Sorry I can't remeber the name.

--- The Peillet-Long Family <owlnmole@...>
wrote:

> I have located a professional shipyard in Tunisia
> that does
> commercial and yacht-type boats in steel. Any
> suggestions for a
> simple steel design, Bolger or other, that might fit
> the bill--
> modest diesel power, with or without sails, somewhat
> traditional
> looks (for resale) and overnight accommodations for
> an adult and
> three small children (call it four adults)?
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long
> Family"
> <owlnmole@...> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings, all!
> >
> > I've been away from this group for a long time,
> but some of you
> may
> > remember me from the past or have seen my
> long-neglected web site
> > <http://www.geocities.com/owlnmole> on building
> Brick and Yellow
> > Leaf. Lincoln Ross, if you're out there, still
> have Tetard?
> >
> > In any case, my family and I are continuing our
> gypsy lifestyle
> with
> > a move to Tunisia for three years this summer and
> I am thinking of
> > tackling a modest family cruiser project, or
> perhaps having it
> built.
> >
> > We have three small children, ages 1-7, so I am
> looking for
> > something large enough for safe (read hard to fall
> overboard) day
> > trips and the occasional overnight adventure.
> Some could sleep
> > under a tent for the overnight part, but I would
> want bunks for at
> > least two people, a small galley and a chemical
> toilet.
> >
> > Performance needs are modest--straight motor or
> motor/sail
> > auxiliary, probably a small diesel engine.
> >
> > My first thought is Bolger Marina Cruiser/Merlin
> design, with or
> > without the auxiliary lug sail, but I'd love to
> hear other
> > suggestions. Low cost and fast, easy building are
> critical, since
> > who knows where our next assignment will take us.
> >
> > Thanks and regards to all,
> >
> > Matthew
> >
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
> I have located a professional shipyard in Tunisia that does
> commercial and yacht-type boats in steel. Any suggestions for a
> simple steel design, Bolger or other, that might fit the bill--
> modest diesel power, with or without sails, somewhat traditional
> looks (for resale) and overnight accommodations for an adult and
> three small children (call it four adults)?


First, I suggest emailing PCB to see what he suggests. He does not
consider all his designs suitable for display to the general public. I
think I remember that he did a piece in MAIB about a powerboat in the
mid 20's of length that he designed in steel in the 1950's, or
thereabouts.

Second, I suggest you look through the catalog at
www.tantonyachts.com. YM Tanton has designed a lot of steel vessels,
including several very commodious sailboats of around 30 feet.
Greenpeace (love the boat, hate the name) is a good one. Tanton has
had some boats built in Turkey in wood.

Third, check out www.dixdesign.com. Dudley Dix has done several boats
in steel.

Fourth, check out the Brent Swain boats at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/origamiboats/Swain has a very down and
dirty approach.

Finally,http://www.dickzaalyachtdesign.nl/There are probably lots of
other Dutch designers that I don't know about, but wish I did.

Peter
I have located a professional shipyard in Tunisia that does
commercial and yacht-type boats in steel. Any suggestions for a
simple steel design, Bolger or other, that might fit the bill--
modest diesel power, with or without sails, somewhat traditional
looks (for resale) and overnight accommodations for an adult and
three small children (call it four adults)?

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
<owlnmole@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings, all!
>
> I've been away from this group for a long time, but some of you
may
> remember me from the past or have seen my long-neglected web site
> <http://www.geocities.com/owlnmole> on building Brick and Yellow
> Leaf. Lincoln Ross, if you're out there, still have Tetard?
>
> In any case, my family and I are continuing our gypsy lifestyle
with
> a move to Tunisia for three years this summer and I am thinking of
> tackling a modest family cruiser project, or perhaps having it
built.
>
> We have three small children, ages 1-7, so I am looking for
> something large enough for safe (read hard to fall overboard) day
> trips and the occasional overnight adventure. Some could sleep
> under a tent for the overnight part, but I would want bunks for at
> least two people, a small galley and a chemical toilet.
>
> Performance needs are modest--straight motor or motor/sail
> auxiliary, probably a small diesel engine.
>
> My first thought is Bolger Marina Cruiser/Merlin design, with or
> without the auxiliary lug sail, but I'd love to hear other
> suggestions. Low cost and fast, easy building are critical, since
> who knows where our next assignment will take us.
>
> Thanks and regards to all,
>
> Matthew
>
Ok. That makes sense. I don't mind the cost, worth every penny to
me. Wish I could get both the pdf (for posterity) and the printed
version for $32......



On 4/11/06, John Kohnen <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
> More expensive, if you print it out. But it's cheaper if you live outside
> the US of A, and that's its reason for existence...
>
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:22:31 -0700, Bill Turnbull wrote:
>
> > Here I think:
> >
> >http://www.duckworksbbs.com/media/maibonline/index.htm
> >
> > But, does not appear cheaper to me....... $32/year, same as print.
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
> Love is the delightful interval between meeting a beautiful girl and
> discovering she looks like a haddock. <John Barrymore>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
More expensive, if you print it out. But it's cheaper if you live outside
the US of A, and that's its reason for existence...

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:22:31 -0700, Bill Turnbull wrote:

> Here I think:
>
>http://www.duckworksbbs.com/media/maibonline/index.htm
>
> But, does not appear cheaper to me....... $32/year, same as print.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Love is the delightful interval between meeting a beautiful girl and
discovering she looks like a haddock. <John Barrymore>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> On 4/10/06, Bill Turnbull <BillTurnbull@...> wrote:
> > Here I think:
> >
> >http://www.duckworksbbs.com/media/maibonline/index.htm
> >
> > But, does not appear cheaper to me....... $32/year, same as print.
>
> Regardless, still a bargain. Where else can you read such
entertainment?
>
It's cheaper for those that would have to pay for postage outside USA.

Nels
On 4/10/06, Bill Turnbull <BillTurnbull@...> wrote:
> Here I think:
>
>http://www.duckworksbbs.com/media/maibonline/index.htm
>
> But, does not appear cheaper to me....... $32/year, same as print.

Regardless, still a bargain. Where else can you read such entertainment?
Here I think:

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/media/maibonline/index.htm

But, does not appear cheaper to me....... $32/year, same as print.

Bill



On 4/10/06, Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> And where is the URL to subscribe to MAIB by email?
> Not here:
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/books_cds/maib/index.htm
> Or here:
>http://www.messingaboutinboats.com/
>
> On 4/10/06, Eric OHiggins <chaemeocyparis@...> wrote:
> > Just started my email subscription to MAIB -- snail
> > mail is not so hot if you're Moving About In Boats,
> > right?
> > Anyway, works great and records onto a CDR flawlessly
>
>
And where is the URL to subscribe to MAIB by email?
Not here:
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/store/books_cds/maib/index.htm
Or here:
http://www.messingaboutinboats.com/

On 4/10/06, Eric OHiggins <chaemeocyparis@...> wrote:
> Just started my email subscription to MAIB -- snail
> mail is not so hot if you're Moving About In Boats,
> right?
> Anyway, works great and records onto a CDR flawlessly
Just started my email subscription to MAIB -- snail
mail is not so hot if you're Moving About In Boats,
right?
Anyway, works great and records onto a CDR flawlessly
and the CD works on both OSX and DOS machines. I use
MacOS 10.4.2 and had to switch to the Firefox 1.0
browser (not the first website too require it, so I
had it handy). Obviously I have nothing useful to say
to people working in Windows.
Great service and considerably cheaper, too!
Eric

__________________________________________________
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http://mail.yahoo.com
John, thanks for the good advice and the link to the
Michalak article--very helpful. The boat is
"Tortuga", a Cheoy Lee Monterrey Clipper, built of
yacal, teak and mahogany in Hong Kong in the early
'60s. she was used on the west coast, homeport San
Diego, between '63 and the late seventies or early
eighties. She was then trucked to Michigan and used
on the Great Lakes. I am going to pull her home to
Delaware this weekend, so she is pretty well traveled.
A survey showed the hull sound, but the deck and
cabin need work. A pretty boat, I think, built as a
yacht in the salmon troller style.

--- John Kohnen <jhkohnen@...> wrote:

> No spreaders, good! <g> Any rig that requires
> spreaders is getting too
> complicated and expensive for its own good. A
> standing lugsail like
> Periwinkl's or Little Silver's would make a good
> "get-home" sail. It's
> awfully simple, and very easy to get rigged when you
> need it. When you
> don't need it, the furled sail and yard can be
> easily stored on deck, it
> doesn't need to be attached to the mast all the
> time. But for a steadying
> sail a small jib-headed trysail laced to the mast
> would be better, IMO. It
> doesn't need a boom. There's no reason you can't
> have both -- I would if I
> were in your shoes. Most of the details in this
> article by Jim Michalak
> about rigging a balanced lugsail also apply to a
> standing lug:
>
>http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/15feb06.htm
>
> To really learn the ropes about lugsails see if your
> local library can get
> their hands on Spritsail and Lugsail by John
> Leather. It's a wonderful
> book that goes into a great deal of depth about its
> subject. I wish I'd
> bought one for myself when it first came out,
> nowadays it's quite
> expensive and hard to find. :o(
>
> Don't relegate the sail to just emergency use. As
> Billy Atkin says, "One
> halyard and one sheet controls the lug sail and
> while it is hardly
> expected that Periwinkl will dash up to windward she
> will move along with
> a free breeze and a lot of fun and rest can be taken
> with the motor shut
> off and the sail spread."
>
> A troller/cruiser -- you must be on the West Coast.
> Where do you keep her?
>
> On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 18:53:58 -0700, Sam Glasscock
> wrote:
>
> > ...
> > I now have a 30' salmon
> > troller/cruiser with a 20' mast stepped on deck,
> about
> > 10' from the bow....
> > The mast I
> > have has no boom or spreader, just shouds and a
> > forestay. A big jib came with the boat but no
> other
> > sails. I would like to come up with a rig for a
> more
> > balanced steadying sail and for an emergency
> get-home
> > rig. The lug in these Atkins designs looks
> suitable,
> > is it? Any idea how to design something like
> this,
> > how the yard of the lug is attached, size of sail,
> > etc?
> > ...
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
> Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes.
> <Henry David Thoreau>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming,
> respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
> and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>


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> Phil and Suzanne might be. I haven't heard from them in month, so I
> guess the I60 won't happen.

I'm not ready to panic quite yet -- it is a hard problem, and they've
been pretty swamped from what I hear. And I still have a few
logistical problems to iron out before I could start construction,
anyway. (Building a boat shop, for one.)

Besides, if the I60 did turn out to be unfeasible, I'd just build a
Fiji instead. It wouldn't solve the "floating cottage at Chautauqua"
problem, but the I60 doesn't solve the "circumnavigation boat"
problem, either, or the "liveaboard" problem....

--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
I think that he is himself guilty of saying
> something that he does not mean in his last post because I'm sure he
> hopes to enjoy Windemere before all that is left of his mortality
(and
> vitality) is "remains". Me, too.
>
> Peter V.

ROTFALMAO! Indeed!!!!Glad you caught it!

I "remain",

Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David Ryan <david@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone!
>
> I'm not dead!
>
> Phil and Suzanne might be. I haven't heard from them in month, so I
> guess the I60 won't happen.
>
> It's starting to get warm and I'll be back in my boats soon. Later
> this SpringI'm going to build some Klamyack (tm) for my daughter
and
> a few of her friends.
>
> YIBB,
>
> David


Hi David,

Good to hear that you are not dead,not that anyone would have
thought such a thing(!),and that Winters' death grip has finally left
us ready for yet another happy boating season.
It must indeed be darned frustrating for you (and Susan!) to be
waiting so long for such an inspired and unique craft, the much talked
about I60 design, to be finally completed.The teaser study plans
already posted here are suggestive of some brilliant on-the-water
performance not to mention a construction period filled with amazement
as wood becomes assembled into such a bold vessel.
And,speaking of construction,what exactly is a Klamyack(tm)
anyway? I Googled it but came up empty.

At anyrate,happy boating season to you and may you enjoy some
safe fun times with your daughter and her new Klamyack(tm).Looking
forward to reading some of your adventures with her too!


Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan, slowly shaking off the multiple layers of winter work
clothes and preparing for shorts-T-shirts-and-sandle weather,from
along the shores of the warming St.Lawrence..........
Hello Everyone!

I'm not dead!

Phil and Suzanne might be. I haven't heard from them in month, so I
guess the I60 won't happen.

It's starting to get warm and I'll be back in my boats soon. Later
this SpringI'm going to build some Klamyack (tm) for my daughter and
a few of her friends.

YIBB,

David
Yes, those FAO boats have possibilities. I've occasionally given some
thought to using the 6.3 meter one as the basis for a camp cruiser -- with
a standing lug auxiliary rig. <g> You've got to understand that the FAO
hulls are designed for low power and displacement speeds, putting a big
engine into one won't make it go much faster, it'll just dig a hole in the
water.

On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 07:01:57 -0700, denis wrote:

> I never new the UN FAO designs existed. Neat! Thanks so much for
> posting this link. I've only done a quick scan of the boats there
> are some real possibilities.
>>
>>http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W7260E/W7260E00.HTM

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Only two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity, and I’m
not sure of the former. <Albert Einstein>
No spreaders, good! <g> Any rig that requires spreaders is getting too
complicated and expensive for its own good. A standing lugsail like
Periwinkl's or Little Silver's would make a good "get-home" sail. It's
awfully simple, and very easy to get rigged when you need it. When you
don't need it, the furled sail and yard can be easily stored on deck, it
doesn't need to be attached to the mast all the time. But for a steadying
sail a small jib-headed trysail laced to the mast would be better, IMO. It
doesn't need a boom. There's no reason you can't have both -- I would if I
were in your shoes. Most of the details in this article by Jim Michalak
about rigging a balanced lugsail also apply to a standing lug:

http://homepages.apci.net/~michalak/15feb06.htm

To really learn the ropes about lugsails see if your local library can get
their hands on Spritsail and Lugsail by John Leather. It's a wonderful
book that goes into a great deal of depth about its subject. I wish I'd
bought one for myself when it first came out, nowadays it's quite
expensive and hard to find. :o(

Don't relegate the sail to just emergency use. As Billy Atkin says, "One
halyard and one sheet controls the lug sail and while it is hardly
expected that Periwinkl will dash up to windward she will move along with
a free breeze and a lot of fun and rest can be taken with the motor shut
off and the sail spread."

A troller/cruiser -- you must be on the West Coast. Where do you keep her?

On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 18:53:58 -0700, Sam Glasscock wrote:

> ...
> I now have a 30' salmon
> troller/cruiser with a 20' mast stepped on deck, about
> 10' from the bow....
> The mast I
> have has no boom or spreader, just shouds and a
> forestay. A big jib came with the boat but no other
> sails. I would like to come up with a rig for a more
> balanced steadying sail and for an emergency get-home
> rig. The lug in these Atkins designs looks suitable,
> is it? Any idea how to design something like this,
> how the yard of the lug is attached, size of sail,
> etc?
> ...

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes. <Henry David Thoreau>
Thanks for that neat response, John:
I do agree fully with the need for correct nautical
terminalogy -- we had until recently a gaff schooner
with sprit booms which had 17 bits of running rigging
-- four each to each of four pin rails plus another on
the bowsprit for the Dyarchy rig we used to set the
jib.
Getting crew to adjust things was hopeless unless they
knew the name of each line, which in fact most people
cottoned onto very quickly-- fores'l throat halyard is
self explanatory pretty quickly.
My point was only that people have to get through a
learning curve, given a little friendly and discreet
guidance.,\
Finally, and why I got all excited, I had an occasion
to make a passage with two total neophytes in nasty
conditions. They were getting thrown around the boat
in a highly dangerous way and it took some time to
explain to them that they needed to lie down on the
cabin sole and not on the deck where I was sure they
would go over the side. Trying to get them shifted,
timed to happen between sets of rogue waves, took more
of my attention from the helm than was really safe.
That day made a believer out of me.
Eric

--- John and Kathy Trussell <jtrussell2@...>
wrote:

> Eric,
> One of the interesting challenges in communicating
> about boats is the diversity of language. In many
> parts of England and certainly on the East Coast of
> the US, Coastal communities were pretty much
> isolated. Local language evolved with different
> words being used for the same things or with the
> same word being used for different things. To add
> to the fun, local pronunciations vary widely. Some
> examples:
>
> The English language does not have a plural form of
> the word "you". Different parts of the country
> resolve this shortcoming with "you'all", "youse",
> "youens", or "yin".
>
> The bottom of the inside of a cabin may be called a
> floor, a deck, or a sole (and probably some other
> things I don't know about).
>
> I won't even go into the absurdities involved in the
> distinctions between a ketch and a yawl; I think I
> prefer the term dandy. And shouldn't a cat ketch be
> called a periauger?
>
> My father is active in a society of military
> historians, and I was once drafted into attending
> one of its meetings. As nearly as i could tell, it
> was made up of a bunch of old guys who spent there
> time telling each other, "I know more than you do!"
> I hope we don't start to resemble them. At least
> not too much ;<)
>
> JohnT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eric OHiggins
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 1:20 PM
> Subject: [bolger] Are you flamers or just purists?
>
>
> We're getting perilously close to bad manners with
> this stuff, I think. If the guy wanted to make
> his
> meaning clear, he did so quite adequately; if he
> wanted to be picky with his language, he could buy
> a
> maritime encyclopaedia!
> If you want headroom below decks, you'd lower the
> floors which are the athwartships structure on
> which
> the cabin sole sits. Maybe someday in a hard
> chance
> at sea these distinctions may be important, not
> not
> today from the smug comfort of your armchairs!
> Eric the Picky
>
> --- Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...>
> wrote:
>
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart"
> > <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
> > This boat was built with some small
> > > alterations (lowering of the deck to give
> > headroom, I think) that
> > > would be worthwhile to know about. I believe
> PCB
> > approved.
> >
> >
> > Must be an April Fools sorta joke.....lowering
> the
> > deck to get
> > headroom.....:-D
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming,
> > respamming, or flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no
> 'Ed,
> > thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your
> posts,
> > and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> > Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion:
> >bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
> Bolger rules!!!
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> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming,
> respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no
> 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your
> posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
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>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming,
> respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
> and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>


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I never new the UN FAO designs existed. Neat! Thanks so much for
posting this link. I've only done a quick scan of the boats there
are some real possibilities.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> The UN FAO boat designs are here:
>
>http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W7260E/W7260E00.HTM
>
> William Atkin designed several motorboats with auxiliary sails.
It's a
> good idea if you keep the rig simple. Wm. favored a single
standing
> lugsail:
>
>http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/Periwinkl.html
>
>http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/LittleSilver.html
>
> But got more complicated for one of my favorites (John's influence?
<g>):
>
>http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Surprise.html
>
> On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:35:18 -0700, Lincoln Ross wrote:
>
> > ...
> > Also, if you can do without sails, I think it was some UN agency
that
> > had some neat looking low powered low tech fishing boats for
> > construction locally in the third world. But I don't rembember the
> > URL.
> > ...
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
> He could do anything he put his mind to, except put on a white
shirt and
> tie. <said of Clifford James Dickson by his daughter>
>
> Sorry if you did not see the humour and I apologize to Peter V.
> if he was in any way taken aback by my sense of humour. I know Peter
> usually doesn't make "mistakes" in his posts which tend to be very
> thoughtful and considerate replies/queries.I trust too that he is
> perhaps a wee bit familiar with some of my crazier posts to not take
> that one to heart :-)

Let me say for the record that I saw at once Peter L.'s remark was due
to a simple misunderstanding and took no offense whatever. The truth
is, if Peter had flamed me outrageously, I still would have taken
little or no offense since he has a track record of helpful and
entertaining posts. I think that he is himself guilty of saying
something that he does not mean in his last post because I'm sure he
hopes to enjoy Windemere before all that is left of his mortality (and
vitality) is "remains". Me, too.

Peter V.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Eric OHiggins <chaemeocyparis@...>
wrote:
>
> We're getting perilously close to bad manners with
> this stuff, I think. If the guy wanted to make his
> meaning clear, he did so quite adequately; if he
> wanted to be picky with his language, he could buy a
> maritime encyclopaedia!
> If you want headroom below decks, you'd lower the
> floors which are the athwartships structure on which
> the cabin sole sits. Maybe someday in a hard chance
> at sea these distinctions may be important, not not
> today from the smug comfort of your armchairs!
> Eric the Picky
>
> --- Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
>
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart"
> > <pvanderwaart@> wrote:
> > This boat was built with some small
> > > alterations (lowering of the deck to give
> > headroom, I think) that
> > > would be worthwhile to know about. I believe PCB
> > approved.
> >
> >
> > Must be an April Fools sorta joke.....lowering the
> > deck to get
> > headroom.....:-D

Hi Eric,

Sorry if you did not see the humour and I apologize to Peter V.
if he was in any way taken aback by my sense of humour. I know Peter
usually doesn't make "mistakes" in his posts which tend to be very
thoughtful and considerate replies/queries.I trust too that he is
perhaps a wee bit familiar with some of my crazier posts to not take
that one to heart :-)
In reply to your subject line;I am neither a purist nor a flamer
(whatever that is) but rather pride myself in being a nutcase(some
would say certifiable) and general boatbum bon vivant. I do not know
if I can score further points by also claiming to be a young
apprentice to the master pirate Big Bad Bruce Hector or an
afficinado of deep dark red Ports or even being part of the booted
and infamous group of 6 which had our benevolent moderator in such a
fury as to boot us off the group a few years back.Trust me,
somewhere inside I do have something akin to a sterling character
despite various bits of stubborn tarnish(off damned spot! Off with
ye!)
At any rate,I truly hope no harm was done and that the general
good spirit of this group is preserved.

Sincerely,

Peter"who me?" Lenihan,presently working toward launching his third
Bolger boat(31' Windermere) and longs for the day he too can have a
comfortable armchair to repose my mortal remains while gently
continuing the pickling process begun years ago thanks to a generous
Italian girl and her fathers' red wine,from along the shores of the
mighty St.Lawrence..............
Hi Sam

Bolger's book [103 Rigs], excellent as it is, doesn't go into the sort of
depth you are looking for. He addresses the relative merits of different
rigs in essays of roughly a page or so, often pointing out merits or flaws
which would not have occurred to me otherwise [not that _that's_ saying much
:) ], matching rigs to hull forms and so on. It's fascinating reading, and I
would recommend you have a look at a copy to see what he has to say which
might impact on your scenario, but for the detail you are seeking I'd look
to Brion Toss's comprehensive and well written "Rigger's Apprentice".

cheers
Derek
These little Atkins motor cruisers with the standing
lug are pretty neat. I now have a 30' salmon
troller/cruiser with a 20' mast stepped on deck, about
10' from the bow. This is an old Cheoy Lee design,
and was available as a true motorsailer with a
fractional sloop rig, and as a cruiser. The mast I
have has no boom or spreader, just shouds and a
forestay. A big jib came with the boat but no other
sails. I would like to come up with a rig for a more
balanced steadying sail and for an emergency get-home
rig. The lug in these Atkins designs looks suitable,
is it? Any idea how to design something like this,
how the yard of the lug is attached, size of sail,
etc? Does Bolger's book on rigs go into this stuff?
I am completely innnocent of any knowlege at this
point. Thanks. Sam

--- John Kohnen <jhkohnen@...> wrote:


> William Atkin designed several motorboats with
> auxiliary sails. It's a
> good idea if you keep the rig simple. Wm. favored a
> single standing
> lugsail:
>
>
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/Periwinkl.html
>
>
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/LittleSilver.html
>

__________________________________________________
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Eric,
One of the interesting challenges in communicating about boats is the diversity of language. In many parts of England and certainly on the East Coast of the US, Coastal communities were pretty much isolated. Local language evolved with different words being used for the same things or with the same word being used for different things. To add to the fun, local pronunciations vary widely. Some examples:

The English language does not have a plural form of the word "you". Different parts of the country resolve this shortcoming with "you'all", "youse", "youens", or "yin".

The bottom of the inside of a cabin may be called a floor, a deck, or a sole (and probably some other things I don't know about).

I won't even go into the absurdities involved in the distinctions between a ketch and a yawl; I think I prefer the term dandy. And shouldn't a cat ketch be called a periauger?

My father is active in a society of military historians, and I was once drafted into attending one of its meetings. As nearly as i could tell, it was made up of a bunch of old guys who spent there time telling each other, "I know more than you do!" I hope we don't start to resemble them. At least not too much ;<)

JohnT
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric OHiggins
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 1:20 PM
Subject: [bolger] Are you flamers or just purists?


We're getting perilously close to bad manners with
this stuff, I think. If the guy wanted to make his
meaning clear, he did so quite adequately; if he
wanted to be picky with his language, he could buy a
maritime encyclopaedia!
If you want headroom below decks, you'd lower the
floors which are the athwartships structure on which
the cabin sole sits. Maybe someday in a hard chance
at sea these distinctions may be important, not not
today from the smug comfort of your armchairs!
Eric the Picky

--- Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...> wrote:

> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart"
> <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
> This boat was built with some small
> > alterations (lowering of the deck to give
> headroom, I think) that
> > would be worthwhile to know about. I believe PCB
> approved.
>
>
> Must be an April Fools sorta joke.....lowering the
> deck to get
> headroom.....:-D
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming,
> respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
> and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



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b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Eric OHiggins <chaemeocyparis@...> wrote:
>
> We're getting perilously close to bad manners with
> this stuff, I think.
You must not belong to the Yahoo Microcruising Group if you think this
forum is approaching bad manners! :~)
I don't think any of the posts or people here are flamers or "purists".
The vocabulary of boat parts is succinct for a reason: to avoid any
confusion, hence no "right" or "left" but starboard and port. And one
need not even be on the water to suffer the consequences of
mis-speaking. If I wrote to a designer asking for an alteration to
increase headroom and he/she told me to lower the decks, I'd start
looking for a different designer and boat. If I asked the boat yard
(which is hypothetical since I suffer from the "boatbuilding disease")
to lower the decks, while thinking that I'm communicating a desire for
a lower cabin sole for more haedroom, I'd have no one to blame but
myself when I returned to find they had changed my cruiser to an open
day boat with nice wide, low side decks and tall bulwarks.
It has been my experience that the folks on this forum, whose members
are spread round the globe, are most generous with their knowledge and
experience and gracious with their communications.
It is my impression that the occasional histrionics on the
Microcruising forum tend to be from designers or other profeesionals
in the biz. It's a lot of fun none the less, taken with the right
attitude.
Cheers, David
We're getting perilously close to bad manners with
this stuff, I think. If the guy wanted to make his
meaning clear, he did so quite adequately; if he
wanted to be picky with his language, he could buy a
maritime encyclopaedia!
If you want headroom below decks, you'd lower the
floors which are the athwartships structure on which
the cabin sole sits. Maybe someday in a hard chance
at sea these distinctions may be important, not not
today from the smug comfort of your armchairs!
Eric the Picky

--- Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...> wrote:

> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart"
> <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
> This boat was built with some small
> > alterations (lowering of the deck to give
> headroom, I think) that
> > would be worthwhile to know about. I believe PCB
> approved.
>
>
> Must be an April Fools sorta joke.....lowering the
> deck to get
> headroom.....:-D
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming,
> respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
> and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>


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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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not forgeting that in england you have upper deck
----- Original Message -----
From: Hugo Tyson
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: A family motor/sail cruiser?


OK then, I call it the cabin floor, or cabin sole!

pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote: > Not the deck(lowering), that's absurd and totally wrong!

I'll defend my use of the word "deck". Decks are things you walk on:
promenade deck, gun deck, spar deck, orlop deck, etc.






Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



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OK then, I call it the cabin floor, or cabin sole!

pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote: > Not the deck(lowering), that's absurd and totally wrong!

I'll defend my use of the word "deck". Decks are things you walk on:
promenade deck, gun deck, spar deck, orlop deck, etc.






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Not the deck(lowering), that's absurd and totally wrong!

I'll defend my use of the word "deck". Decks are things you walk on:
promenade deck, gun deck, spar deck, orlop deck, etc.
> Must be an April Fools sorta joke.....lowering the deck to get
> headroom.....:-D

Actually not. The deck at issue is the one you would be standing on.
Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...> wrote:

"something along the lines of Windermere" enlarged by 50% maybe!!

Though I do like Illinois, the 62' mobile house boat that looks like a real ship! I also like the 12 knot trailerable Diesel Launch, which at 40' maybe a fit small for full headroom in the cabins, but enlarged by 25 -50%, she'd be a really interesting boat, as is "Bell's Puffer", but unfortunately she's built from steel!

Hugo Tyson, Launceston, Tasmania, Australia. ...now cooling down and slowly heading into Winter! We've already had some snow, which is a bit early this year!








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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...> wrote:
>
to gain a bit of headroom so that my mother could actually stand
inside the cabin! No onesles in the family can, we're all too tall!.


Hmmmmmm.....sounds like yet another boat in the future to add to the
Tyson fleet Hugo.One with full standing headroom for the whole
gang...something along the lines of Windermere :-)

Keep a good thought!

Sincerely,

Peter Lenihan,slowly feeling the creep of summertime warmth along the
mighty St.Lawrence..........
Not the deck(lowering), that's absurd and totally wrong! The cabin floor was lowered an inch or two to gain a bit of headroom so that my mother could actually stand inside the cabin! No onesles in the family can, we're all too tall!.

Hugo Tyson. Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.

Peter Lenihan <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
This boat was built with some small
> alterations (lowering of the deck to give headroom, I think) that
> would be worthwhile to know about. I believe PCB approved.


Must be an April Fools sorta joke.....lowering the deck to get
headroom.....:-D





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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
This boat was built with some small
> alterations (lowering of the deck to give headroom, I think) that
> would be worthwhile to know about. I believe PCB approved.


Must be an April Fools sorta joke.....lowering the deck to get
headroom.....:-D
The UN FAO boat designs are here:

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W7260E/W7260E00.HTM

William Atkin designed several motorboats with auxiliary sails. It's a
good idea if you keep the rig simple. Wm. favored a single standing
lugsail:

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/Periwinkl.html

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Cruisers/LittleSilver.html

But got more complicated for one of my favorites (John's influence? <g>):

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Sail/Surprise.html

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:35:18 -0700, Lincoln Ross wrote:

> ...
> Also, if you can do without sails, I think it was some UN agency that
> had some neat looking low powered low tech fishing boats for
> construction locally in the third world. But I don't rembember the
> URL.
> ...

--
John <jkohnen@...>
He could do anything he put his mind to, except put on a white shirt and
tie. <said of Clifford James Dickson by his daughter>
I wonder if you won't find some old boat already there that is really
cool? Seems like a possibility.

Also, if you can do without sails, I think it was some UN agency that
had some neat looking low powered low tech fishing boats for
construction locally in the third world. But I don't rembember the
URL. As I recall, Bolger says sails are a lot of extra trouble.

Seems to me, if you are going to cruise around, Birdwatcher, or a
simplified Birdwatcher derivative,possibly from Michalak, might make
more sense. Unless you want to get done building about the time you
leave! I can't imagine "cruising" in Zephyr. Or sailing it in much
more than a Zephyr, tho I haven't sailed one, or even seen one.

Good luck with the project.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
<owlnmole@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Nels, Kenneth, Puck & Bill for your thoughts.
>
> I would be building there or having it built, depending on time and
what kind of wood/
> plywood/etc. is available locally. If building myself, I should
probably just go with one of
> the many small boat plans I already have--Zephyr for a light,
unballasted sailboat, or
> Storm Petrel with railings added all around using the same sail, or
a Micro.
>
> A couple of you mentioned the 2nd generation Fast Motorcruiser,
which would be practical
> but require a larger engine than I want and, honestly, I don't like
the look of the cutwater
> hull shape.
>
> If I have to have it built, then I suspect a more traditional design
is likely to suit local
> workshops better. I already have plans for a Phil's Mouser/Garfield
catboat, one of his
> early designs. Among other tradional designs, I don't think I could
go wrong with an Atkin
> Shoreliner, though I am still tempted by Phil's Merlin (Marina
Cruiser) design.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Matthew
> Luxembourg City, Luxembourg
>
I trust you have seen the pictures of the Tyson's Merlin that in the
files section of Bolger3. This boat was built with some small
alterations (lowering of the deck to give headroom, I think) that
would be worthwhile to know about. I believe PCB approved. It would be
a good design for pottering about, but not big enough, I think, for
any cruising with your family.

As to alternates, the Navigator version of Seabird comes to mind,
especially if an outboard turns out to be better than an inboard. I do
wonder if it's possible to obtain marine ply in a country where the
market would be small. It's hard enough to get in some parts of the
US. I'm sure it's best to see what technology the local craftsmen
know, then tailor the design and construction plan to suit. My guess
is that sawn frames and strip construction are more likely than bent
frames and carvel planking, or ply planking.

If you go to www.tantonyachts.com, and look toward the bottom of page
6 of the gallery, you'll find pictures of his design #936 being built
in Turkey. (Yes, I know Turkey is not Tunesia.) It seems to be striped
with two layers of veneer.

Peter
You may just find that once you get there you can buy a locally made boat and be sailing almost immediately ... and probably for cheaper than building a new one.

Kenneth Grome
Bagacay Boat Works






On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:00:39 -0500, John and Kathy Trussell wrote:
> Mathew--I confess ignorance, but most of the suggestions so far are
> for plywood and epoxy boats. Both materials are readily available in
> the US, Australia, or most of Europe; I simply don't know what is
> available in Tunesia. If I were building a boat overseas, my first
> consideration would be available materials; my second would be what
> materials and construction techniques are used locally. Then I could
> figure out what sort of boat might be feasible.
>
> Good luck.
>
> John T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Puck III
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 8:13 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: A family motor/sail cruiser?
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
> <owlnmole@...> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings, all!
> >
> > I've been away from this group for a long time, but some of you may
> > remember me from the past or have seen my long-neglected web site
> > <http://www.geocities.com/owlnmole> on building Brick and Yellow
> > Leaf. Lincoln Ross, if you're out there, still have Tetard?
> >
> > In any case, my family and I are continuing our gypsy lifestyle
> with
> > a move to Tunisia for three years this summer and I am thinking of
> > tackling a modest family cruiser project, or perhaps having it
> built.
> >
> > We have three small children, ages 1-7, so I am looking for
> > something large enough for safe (read hard to fall overboard) day
> > trips and the occasional overnight adventure. Some could sleep
> > under a tent for the overnight part, but I would want bunks for at
> > least two people, a small galley and a chemical toilet.
> >
> > Performance needs are modest--straight motor or motor/sail
> > auxiliary, probably a small diesel engine.
> >
> > My first thought is Bolger Marina Cruiser/Merlin design, with or
> > without the auxiliary lug sail, but I'd love to hear other
> > suggestions. Low cost and fast, easy building are critical, since
> > who knows where our next assignment will take us.
> >
> > Thanks and regards to all,
> >
> > Matthew
> -----------------
>
> Sabah el Chir, Matthew , Tunesia is a fine country , you will enjoy.
> The cheapest and easyest way to have a good boat there ,
> will be to have one build for you there , the laborcost
> is realy a fraction of what you can imagine .
>
> Once you have a nice , good boat , you could sell her
> right away , and have another one build in no time .
>
> 2 weeks is what it takes to bang a Simmons SeaSkiff together
> cost grosso modo $ 3000 if you know how to negociate :-)
> ever been to North Africa before ?
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DoryBoat/
> is an interesting Yahoo Group where you will find some pics
> Diesel Dory waterlines in the Ben's stuff photoalbum.
>
> Simmons SeaSkiff album to see pics how whe build them
> the classic way in North Africa :-)
>
> My personal experience in North Africa ,
> there in no wind , or much wind :-)
>
> If I had to have a boat built for my own use ,
> I would seriously consider a fast Bartender Motorsailor option
> you find a plan and some pics in the album :
> 'Small Dory accomodation option'
>
> More seaworthy ,small , fast & cheap to build dory is gone be
> realy hard to find . Like the Simmon's that boat has a forefoot,
> the best in bad weather , sailing or playing with the waves
> can be real fun , sailing silently with an easy rig as shown
> the max ! I would replace the centerboard with 2 sideboards.
>
> you find plans and pics how to do that in the photoalbum
> 'Genevieve's Dory '
>
> I hope you enjoy the pics and plans .
> Feel free to ask any question .
>
> Ke te kellem swia tounsi ?? inch allah :-)
>
> Sherf Ben :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
> 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Boating magazine Boating safety Alaska outdoors
> Great outdoors
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> a.. Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> Service.
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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>
>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/298 - Release Date: 3/30/2006
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Mathew--I confess ignorance, but most of the suggestions so far are for plywood and epoxy boats. Both materials are readily available in the US, Australia, or most of Europe; I simply don't know what is available in Tunesia. If I were building a boat overseas, my first consideration would be available materials; my second would be what materials and construction techniques are used locally. Then I could figure out what sort of boat might be feasible.

Good luck.

John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Puck III
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 8:13 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: A family motor/sail cruiser?


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
<owlnmole@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings, all!
>
> I've been away from this group for a long time, but some of you may
> remember me from the past or have seen my long-neglected web site
> <http://www.geocities.com/owlnmole> on building Brick and Yellow
> Leaf. Lincoln Ross, if you're out there, still have Tetard?
>
> In any case, my family and I are continuing our gypsy lifestyle
with
> a move to Tunisia for three years this summer and I am thinking of
> tackling a modest family cruiser project, or perhaps having it
built.
>
> We have three small children, ages 1-7, so I am looking for
> something large enough for safe (read hard to fall overboard) day
> trips and the occasional overnight adventure. Some could sleep
> under a tent for the overnight part, but I would want bunks for at
> least two people, a small galley and a chemical toilet.
>
> Performance needs are modest--straight motor or motor/sail
> auxiliary, probably a small diesel engine.
>
> My first thought is Bolger Marina Cruiser/Merlin design, with or
> without the auxiliary lug sail, but I'd love to hear other
> suggestions. Low cost and fast, easy building are critical, since
> who knows where our next assignment will take us.
>
> Thanks and regards to all,
>
> Matthew
-----------------

Sabah el Chir, Matthew , Tunesia is a fine country , you will enjoy.
The cheapest and easyest way to have a good boat there ,
will be to have one build for you there , the laborcost
is realy a fraction of what you can imagine .

Once you have a nice , good boat , you could sell her
right away , and have another one build in no time .

2 weeks is what it takes to bang a Simmons SeaSkiff together
cost grosso modo $ 3000 if you know how to negociate :-)
ever been to North Africa before ?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DoryBoat/
is an interesting Yahoo Group where you will find some pics
Diesel Dory waterlines in the Ben's stuff photoalbum.

Simmons SeaSkiff album to see pics how whe build them
the classic way in North Africa :-)

My personal experience in North Africa ,
there in no wind , or much wind :-)

If I had to have a boat built for my own use ,
I would seriously consider a fast Bartender Motorsailor option
you find a plan and some pics in the album :
'Small Dory accomodation option'

More seaworthy ,small , fast & cheap to build dory is gone be
realy hard to find . Like the Simmon's that boat has a forefoot,
the best in bad weather , sailing or playing with the waves
can be real fun , sailing silently with an easy rig as shown
the max ! I would replace the centerboard with 2 sideboards.

you find plans and pics how to do that in the photoalbum
'Genevieve's Dory '

I hope you enjoy the pics and plans .
Feel free to ask any question .

Ke te kellem swia tounsi ?? inch allah :-)

Sherf Ben :-)









Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com



SPONSORED LINKS Boating magazine Boating safety Alaska outdoors
Great outdoors


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks, Nels, Kenneth, Puck & Bill for your thoughts.

I would be building there or having it built, depending on time and what kind of wood/
plywood/etc. is available locally. If building myself, I should probably just go with one of
the many small boat plans I already have--Zephyr for a light, unballasted sailboat, or
Storm Petrel with railings added all around using the same sail, or a Micro.

A couple of you mentioned the 2nd generation Fast Motorcruiser, which would be practical
but require a larger engine than I want and, honestly, I don't like the look of the cutwater
hull shape.

If I have to have it built, then I suspect a more traditional design is likely to suit local
workshops better. I already have plans for a Phil's Mouser/Garfield catboat, one of his
early designs. Among other tradional designs, I don't think I could go wrong with an Atkin
Shoreliner, though I am still tempted by Phil's Merlin (Marina Cruiser) design.

Cheers!

Matthew
Luxembourg City, Luxembourg
Have you considered Bolger's Fast Motorsailer?
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/fms.htm

I seem to remember a MAIB article in the last year or so by Bolger
updating this design.


Bill
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
<owlnmole@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings, all!
>
> I've been away from this group for a long time, but some of you may
> remember me from the past or have seen my long-neglected web site
> <http://www.geocities.com/owlnmole> on building Brick and Yellow
> Leaf. Lincoln Ross, if you're out there, still have Tetard?
>
> In any case, my family and I are continuing our gypsy lifestyle
with
> a move to Tunisia for three years this summer and I am thinking of
> tackling a modest family cruiser project, or perhaps having it
built.
>
> We have three small children, ages 1-7, so I am looking for
> something large enough for safe (read hard to fall overboard) day
> trips and the occasional overnight adventure. Some could sleep
> under a tent for the overnight part, but I would want bunks for at
> least two people, a small galley and a chemical toilet.
>
> Performance needs are modest--straight motor or motor/sail
> auxiliary, probably a small diesel engine.
>
> My first thought is Bolger Marina Cruiser/Merlin design, with or
> without the auxiliary lug sail, but I'd love to hear other
> suggestions. Low cost and fast, easy building are critical, since
> who knows where our next assignment will take us.
>
> Thanks and regards to all,
>
> Matthew
-----------------

Sabah el Chir, Matthew , Tunesia is a fine country , you will enjoy.
The cheapest and easyest way to have a good boat there ,
will be to have one build for you there , the laborcost
is realy a fraction of what you can imagine .

Once you have a nice , good boat , you could sell her
right away , and have another one build in no time .

2 weeks is what it takes to bang a Simmons SeaSkiff together
cost grosso modo $ 3000 if you know how to negociate :-)
ever been to North Africa before ?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DoryBoat/
is an interesting Yahoo Group where you will find some pics
Diesel Dory waterlines in the Ben's stuff photoalbum.

Simmons SeaSkiff album to see pics how whe build them
the classic way in North Africa :-)

My personal experience in North Africa ,
there in no wind , or much wind :-)

If I had to have a boat built for my own use ,
I would seriously consider a fast Bartender Motorsailor option
you find a plan and some pics in the album :
'Small Dory accomodation option'

More seaworthy ,small , fast & cheap to build dory is gone be
realy hard to find . Like the Simmon's that boat has a forefoot,
the best in bad weather , sailing or playing with the waves
can be real fun , sailing silently with an easy rig as shown
the max ! I would replace the centerboard with 2 sideboards.

you find plans and pics how to do that in the photoalbum
'Genevieve's Dory '

I hope you enjoy the pics and plans .
Feel free to ask any question .

Ke te kellem swia tounsi ?? inch allah :-)

Sherf Ben :-)
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:15:10 -0000, Nels wrote:
> from a family point of view the "Jochems Family
> Schooner #639" is hard to beat ...

Jim Michalak has several smaller birdwatcher cabin boats if Jochems is too big for you:

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/michalak.htm

I like Scram Pram myself, but several of Jim's boats should work just fine ... :)

Kenneth Grome
Bagacay Boat Works
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
<owlnmole@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings, all!
>
> I've been away from this group for a long time, but some of you
may
> remember me from the past or have seen my long-neglected web site
> <http://www.geocities.com/owlnmole> on building Brick and Yellow
> Leaf. Lincoln Ross, if you're out there, still have Tetard?
>
> In any case, my family and I are continuing our gypsy lifestyle
with
> a move to Tunisia for three years this summer and I am thinking of
> tackling a modest family cruiser project, or perhaps having it
built.
>
> We have three small children, ages 1-7, so I am looking for
> something large enough for safe (read hard to fall overboard) day
> trips and the occasional overnight adventure. Some could sleep
> under a tent for the overnight part, but I would want bunks for at
> least two people, a small galley and a chemical toilet.
>
> Performance needs are modest--straight motor or motor/sail
> auxiliary, probably a small diesel engine.
>
> My first thought is Bolger Marina Cruiser/Merlin design, with or
> without the auxiliary lug sail, but I'd love to hear other
> suggestions. Low cost and fast, easy building are critical, since
> who knows where our next assignment will take us.
>
> Thanks and regards to all,
>
> Matthew
>


Hi Matthew,

So are you planning to build when you get to Tunisia or before and
take it with you?

Low cost and fast easy building are relative terms, and also where
you plan to sail and how portable you want the boat to be are
factors to consider.

But from a family point of view the "Jochems Family Schooner #639"
is hard to beat. Bjorn Harbo, who lives in Oslo has one as well as a
young family and he has shared some video shots with us and it looks
like one big playpen inside! Also it has four good sized bunks.

To see the cartoons you might have to join this group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/

You can contact Bjorn also if you want further information or
perhaps to view the boat at Oslo:-)

Another family style boat that comes to mind is the updated Martha
Jane with larger cabin and higher bulkheads around the cockpit I
believe.

A third design that I think would meet your needs is the full cabin
version of Chebacco, especially if leeboards don't turn you on.

Both of these are written up in "Boats With An Open Mind" but I
would contact Bolger for the latest upgrades.

There are also several similar designs, with the walk-through
Birdwatcher-style cabins sold by Jim Michalak.

BirdwatcherII would be my personal first choice for fast build and
low cost, but it has neither bunks nor galley.

What a dream that would be to cruise the European canals in a
Jochems Schooner then follow the coast down to the toe of Italy and
hop across to Tunis.

Keep us in mind if you build one and decide to sell it later:-)

Nels
Greetings, all!

I've been away from this group for a long time, but some of you may
remember me from the past or have seen my long-neglected web site
<http://www.geocities.com/owlnmole> on building Brick and Yellow
Leaf. Lincoln Ross, if you're out there, still have Tetard?

In any case, my family and I are continuing our gypsy lifestyle with
a move to Tunisia for three years this summer and I am thinking of
tackling a modest family cruiser project, or perhaps having it built.

We have three small children, ages 1-7, so I am looking for
something large enough for safe (read hard to fall overboard) day
trips and the occasional overnight adventure. Some could sleep
under a tent for the overnight part, but I would want bunks for at
least two people, a small galley and a chemical toilet.

Performance needs are modest--straight motor or motor/sail
auxiliary, probably a small diesel engine.

My first thought is Bolger Marina Cruiser/Merlin design, with or
without the auxiliary lug sail, but I'd love to hear other
suggestions. Low cost and fast, easy building are critical, since
who knows where our next assignment will take us.

Thanks and regards to all,

Matthew