Re: Trailer for Diablo - long
Jon,
I HATE YOU . . . your big, flat shop floor, and your warm building !!
Not to mention that obscene stack of lumber & ply. Now, that that is out
of the way . . .
Looked at all the 'answers' so far . . . reminded me of an exercise I
went through about a year ago. It started out as a 'repair-or-buy'
decision for the trailer I got with a Potter P-15. The previous owner
had towed the rig quite a bit, at 'highway speeds' with little concern .
While the tires looked good, the frame was pretty rusted out . . . he
was a 'saltwater sailer' and didn't wash the rig after each use. It
would have been a simple thing to slather on a coat of 'Rustlock' and
some 'Rustoleum', but I NEEDED to know how much 'meat' was left under
the rust. To make it short - just sandblasting would have cost at least
a THIRD of the price of a new trailer.
The project then became a 'BUILD-or-buy' a new trailer. I went the
'Champion route' for the 'running gear' {the frame would be made of
wood}. THAT came out to almost as much as a NEW trailer would cost !!
{While the 'price' of the items may sound good {on an individual piece
basis}, it adds up quick, and the SHIPPING will KILL you !!}. After
doing some research {not many small trailer mfgs. left !!}I narrowed it
down to two brands with local dealers. Both in the 'under $500 category.
A visit proved that one was unsuitable for the modifications I wanted to
make. I made a 'deal' with the other {a 'Marine' dealer}, but the
smaller trailers were 'on order' so I would have to wait. . . no
problem. He then reneged when they came in - despite the written
paperwork !! Worked out just as well . . . a couple of months later I
got a NEW trailer {same make & model} from a 'Fishing & Hunting' dealer
. . . for even LESS then the 'deal' price !!
My 'build-or-buy' research didn't go to waste. I kept looking at the
'folding' utility trailer I've had for several years. Wide enough and
long enough for a '4x8' sheet to act as a 'floor' and 990 lbs Net
capacity. I needed {wanted ??} another trailer for 'quicker use' & easy
adaptability'. Fortunately {or unfortunately, as the case may be},
'Harbor Freight' opened a retail store a 30-minute ride away. Saves on
shipping - now that they are charging for it, but often 'disastrous' to
my budget !! Anyway, the stores have 'individual' flyers. They had a
'Heavy Duty Mini-Trailer' {12 in wheels & tires, over 1,000 lbs net
cap., 40in by 48in 'bed'}on sale . . . $159.oo !! The 'Standard Duty'
{8in wheels} was only $129.oo. I figured I'd just 'swap' the 12in axel
assembly with my '8 footer's 8in, but I fooled myself . . . the 40in was
the WIDTH . . . wouldn't fit.
BUT all was not lost. A} individual parts could be ordered, cheaply,
and B}I had the 'shorty' to play with . . . a LOT. Even if I trashed the
steel frame . . . the running gear was almost free - the relationship to
building a wood framed trailer. Plus it answered a LOT of assembly
questions I'd been wondering about. Lets not kid ourselves. ALL of these
'utility' trailers probably come from the same Chinese factory . . . no
matter from what retailer, or what name is on the paperwork. The stuff
is 'Tinker-Toy' assembly, with no welding. {Actually the same with
today's US Made production trailers. At least the 20- 25ft ones I've
looked at. I had really expected quality welded construction at the
prices asked}. A number of the Champion parts are for 'weld-on' use . .
. particularly the spring hangers. Looking at the 'Minis' parts &
assembly drawings, I now knew at least one solution to the 'bolt on'
problem. I have no fear about using these - they are ALL Federal D.O.T.
certified. Plus must be INSPECTED by local professionals before a State
Registration is issued.
My decision at this point is this . . . and it bears directly on your
problem. I've assembled the steel frame & running gear . . . however the
tongue is just laying there. This is going to be my 'delivery trailer'.
A 'cradle' for the boat {either adjustable, or individualized} will be
bolted to the frame or a ply floor. I am going to build a 10-12 foot
laminated extension. There is nothing illegal about this. It is simply
that the 'trailer parts suppliers' only have steel extensions up to 10ft
and want over $100 for them. The length is so that I can get the boats
further forward. While the 'rule' is that tongue weight should equal
10-15 percent of the load, this is typically only to keep the connector
from 'bouncing' on the ball hitch. {My P19 -1200lbs+ - only has a 55lb
tongue weight . . . by design!! When we used to tow her to the
Chesapeake, we would stop and get a 100lb sack of potatoes to put inside
the cabin, up against the compression post, to ADD weight !! } Also, I
like to lesson the amount of rear overhang when on the road. Any weight,
or additional gear {ex. an Outboard} would be well padded & secured in
the bottom of the boat and either directly over the axel, or just
forward of it. {I.E. - your Diablo}
So there is my 'answer' and experience. I have hauled a 15ft Dory on the
'4x8' . She was pulled up to within a foot of the Rodeo {Get a 'Class 3'
square receiver hitch. NOT because you will need the strength, but
because so meant things are available to fit it . . . or can easily be
made}. There was still more rear overhang then I liked, but a RED RAG
made me feel more comfortable. A couple of 2x4's nailed to the 3/4 ply
floor took care of the bottom rocker & protected the skeg. A pair of 2in
straps & four 'Eye' bolts held her down. The trip was about 2-3 hours on
I-95 & the PA Turnpike from Harve de Grace to the Philly suburbs. At
those speeds, and over SEVERAL well-known bad bumps, I'm fully confident
of my recommendation, the trailer, & the concept.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{PS - Know what you mean about the dog . . . our Malamutes draw'em from
miles around. I keep threatening to take Trooper to a Hooters with an
outdoor deck to see what I can 'turn up'}
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:10:54 -0000
From: "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...>
Subject: Trailer for Diablo
My Diablo rendition is so close to being done that I can already smell
the fish. And from my shop I can see that the ice is off the lake
early this year. She still needs a name, my wife having apparently
vetoed "Salacious" for some reason having to do with "trolling" with my
chick-magnet dog on board.
SNIP
Used boat trailers without boats on them are almost unheard of
SNIP
The Shoreland'r dealer recommends the SLB14ATM for the princely sum of
$1236.00.
SNIP
I priced components to weld one up myself and came out at almost
$1000.00 for a similar
capacity NOT counting the steel for the frame. The second dealer also
has some unassembled frames/tongues/running gear for a 44" wide (frame)
trailer that has a capacity of 1200 lbs. that he'll let go for $600.00
without a spare tire.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
I HATE YOU . . . your big, flat shop floor, and your warm building !!
Not to mention that obscene stack of lumber & ply. Now, that that is out
of the way . . .
Looked at all the 'answers' so far . . . reminded me of an exercise I
went through about a year ago. It started out as a 'repair-or-buy'
decision for the trailer I got with a Potter P-15. The previous owner
had towed the rig quite a bit, at 'highway speeds' with little concern .
While the tires looked good, the frame was pretty rusted out . . . he
was a 'saltwater sailer' and didn't wash the rig after each use. It
would have been a simple thing to slather on a coat of 'Rustlock' and
some 'Rustoleum', but I NEEDED to know how much 'meat' was left under
the rust. To make it short - just sandblasting would have cost at least
a THIRD of the price of a new trailer.
The project then became a 'BUILD-or-buy' a new trailer. I went the
'Champion route' for the 'running gear' {the frame would be made of
wood}. THAT came out to almost as much as a NEW trailer would cost !!
{While the 'price' of the items may sound good {on an individual piece
basis}, it adds up quick, and the SHIPPING will KILL you !!}. After
doing some research {not many small trailer mfgs. left !!}I narrowed it
down to two brands with local dealers. Both in the 'under $500 category.
A visit proved that one was unsuitable for the modifications I wanted to
make. I made a 'deal' with the other {a 'Marine' dealer}, but the
smaller trailers were 'on order' so I would have to wait. . . no
problem. He then reneged when they came in - despite the written
paperwork !! Worked out just as well . . . a couple of months later I
got a NEW trailer {same make & model} from a 'Fishing & Hunting' dealer
. . . for even LESS then the 'deal' price !!
My 'build-or-buy' research didn't go to waste. I kept looking at the
'folding' utility trailer I've had for several years. Wide enough and
long enough for a '4x8' sheet to act as a 'floor' and 990 lbs Net
capacity. I needed {wanted ??} another trailer for 'quicker use' & easy
adaptability'. Fortunately {or unfortunately, as the case may be},
'Harbor Freight' opened a retail store a 30-minute ride away. Saves on
shipping - now that they are charging for it, but often 'disastrous' to
my budget !! Anyway, the stores have 'individual' flyers. They had a
'Heavy Duty Mini-Trailer' {12 in wheels & tires, over 1,000 lbs net
cap., 40in by 48in 'bed'}on sale . . . $159.oo !! The 'Standard Duty'
{8in wheels} was only $129.oo. I figured I'd just 'swap' the 12in axel
assembly with my '8 footer's 8in, but I fooled myself . . . the 40in was
the WIDTH . . . wouldn't fit.
BUT all was not lost. A} individual parts could be ordered, cheaply,
and B}I had the 'shorty' to play with . . . a LOT. Even if I trashed the
steel frame . . . the running gear was almost free - the relationship to
building a wood framed trailer. Plus it answered a LOT of assembly
questions I'd been wondering about. Lets not kid ourselves. ALL of these
'utility' trailers probably come from the same Chinese factory . . . no
matter from what retailer, or what name is on the paperwork. The stuff
is 'Tinker-Toy' assembly, with no welding. {Actually the same with
today's US Made production trailers. At least the 20- 25ft ones I've
looked at. I had really expected quality welded construction at the
prices asked}. A number of the Champion parts are for 'weld-on' use . .
. particularly the spring hangers. Looking at the 'Minis' parts &
assembly drawings, I now knew at least one solution to the 'bolt on'
problem. I have no fear about using these - they are ALL Federal D.O.T.
certified. Plus must be INSPECTED by local professionals before a State
Registration is issued.
My decision at this point is this . . . and it bears directly on your
problem. I've assembled the steel frame & running gear . . . however the
tongue is just laying there. This is going to be my 'delivery trailer'.
A 'cradle' for the boat {either adjustable, or individualized} will be
bolted to the frame or a ply floor. I am going to build a 10-12 foot
laminated extension. There is nothing illegal about this. It is simply
that the 'trailer parts suppliers' only have steel extensions up to 10ft
and want over $100 for them. The length is so that I can get the boats
further forward. While the 'rule' is that tongue weight should equal
10-15 percent of the load, this is typically only to keep the connector
from 'bouncing' on the ball hitch. {My P19 -1200lbs+ - only has a 55lb
tongue weight . . . by design!! When we used to tow her to the
Chesapeake, we would stop and get a 100lb sack of potatoes to put inside
the cabin, up against the compression post, to ADD weight !! } Also, I
like to lesson the amount of rear overhang when on the road. Any weight,
or additional gear {ex. an Outboard} would be well padded & secured in
the bottom of the boat and either directly over the axel, or just
forward of it. {I.E. - your Diablo}
So there is my 'answer' and experience. I have hauled a 15ft Dory on the
'4x8' . She was pulled up to within a foot of the Rodeo {Get a 'Class 3'
square receiver hitch. NOT because you will need the strength, but
because so meant things are available to fit it . . . or can easily be
made}. There was still more rear overhang then I liked, but a RED RAG
made me feel more comfortable. A couple of 2x4's nailed to the 3/4 ply
floor took care of the bottom rocker & protected the skeg. A pair of 2in
straps & four 'Eye' bolts held her down. The trip was about 2-3 hours on
I-95 & the PA Turnpike from Harve de Grace to the Philly suburbs. At
those speeds, and over SEVERAL well-known bad bumps, I'm fully confident
of my recommendation, the trailer, & the concept.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
{PS - Know what you mean about the dog . . . our Malamutes draw'em from
miles around. I keep threatening to take Trooper to a Hooters with an
outdoor deck to see what I can 'turn up'}
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:10:54 -0000
From: "adventures_in_astrophotography" <jon@...>
Subject: Trailer for Diablo
My Diablo rendition is so close to being done that I can already smell
the fish. And from my shop I can see that the ice is off the lake
early this year. She still needs a name, my wife having apparently
vetoed "Salacious" for some reason having to do with "trolling" with my
chick-magnet dog on board.
SNIP
Used boat trailers without boats on them are almost unheard of
SNIP
The Shoreland'r dealer recommends the SLB14ATM for the princely sum of
$1236.00.
SNIP
I priced components to weld one up myself and came out at almost
$1000.00 for a similar
capacity NOT counting the steel for the frame. The second dealer also
has some unassembled frames/tongues/running gear for a 44" wide (frame)
trailer that has a capacity of 1200 lbs. that he'll let go for $600.00
without a spare tire.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm