Re: Schooners
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "pvanderwaart" <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
galley. The sail controls all lead into the center cockpit, but the
wheel is in the galley slash pilothouse, which is the one spot on
board with full standing headroom.
-- Sue --
(a big BDS fan; I might have built one were it not for the I60)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>No. It's a pilothouse design, with the pilothouse doubling as a
> > In one of the photos it looks like nobody
> > is at the wheel as he is louging in the center cockpit -
> > but maybe the boat is ghosting at that time?
>
> Tiller is in the mid-ship cockpit, no?
galley. The sail controls all lead into the center cockpit, but the
wheel is in the galley slash pilothouse, which is the one spot on
board with full standing headroom.
-- Sue --
(a big BDS fan; I might have built one were it not for the I60)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Pasted below is my take-off estimate of what it would take to build a
Breakdown Schooner
[sorry about the clunky formating]
900 manhours labor, 100 sheets of plywood, $12,000 of cash
A remarkable boat, built in a reasonable shop with reasonable tools.
+/- depending on 'things' of course.
=============================================
906 93 755.25 $11,716.75
manhours Ply sheets BF lumber misc$
======================
Aft piece
======================
16 5 40 Bottom
6 20 ...piece 50
16 8 40 Sides
4 ...butt straps
24 800 ...windows
-
4 1 Transom
16 3 ...afterdeck & hatch
4 2 Bulkhead 'G'
4 1 ...tiller box
12 1 ...rudder tiller
8 1 20 ...motor mount
4 3000 ...motor 25hp?
8 2 Bulkhead ''F'
12 3 ...transom berths
8 60 ...floorboards
8 1 ...table
40 500 ...upholstry
8 2 Bulkhead 'E'
16 Bulkhead 'D'
16 ...door & frame
16 3 100 ...icebox
24 2 20 100 ...sink & cabinet
4 250 ...stove
24 200 ...wheel and linkage
8 1 ...shelves
40 4 Roof/ceiling
8 30 Mast partner
4 16 tender storage chocks
12 200 Bits, cleats
-
-
==================
Center piece
==================-
8 2 Bulkhead 'D'
8 2 Bulkhead 'C'
16 200 ribs
16 4 bottom
24 4 sides
16 2 footwell
16 4 bin sides
16 2 bin hatches
16 2 centerboard well
16 3 centerboard
8 mast step
16 200 floorboards
16 300 steel bolt assemblies
=====================
Forward piece
=====================
12 2 100 Bulkhead 'C'
12 2 Bulkhead 'B'
12 2 Bulkhead 'A'
16 5 Bottom
24 5 Sides
40 5 top
4 step
12 2 WC door
24 2 shelfs
16 2 berth top
40 500 mattress/upholstry
12 1 vent box
-
-
=====================
Rigging
=====================
- 651 sf 4.25 2766.75 Sails
500 1 500 Lines
40 500 bf 4 2000 Mainmast
36 Foremast
40 booms & gaffs
500 pulleys, cleats
Breakdown Schooner
[sorry about the clunky formating]
900 manhours labor, 100 sheets of plywood, $12,000 of cash
A remarkable boat, built in a reasonable shop with reasonable tools.
+/- depending on 'things' of course.
=============================================
906 93 755.25 $11,716.75
manhours Ply sheets BF lumber misc$
======================
Aft piece
======================
16 5 40 Bottom
6 20 ...piece 50
16 8 40 Sides
4 ...butt straps
24 800 ...windows
-
4 1 Transom
16 3 ...afterdeck & hatch
4 2 Bulkhead 'G'
4 1 ...tiller box
12 1 ...rudder tiller
8 1 20 ...motor mount
4 3000 ...motor 25hp?
8 2 Bulkhead ''F'
12 3 ...transom berths
8 60 ...floorboards
8 1 ...table
40 500 ...upholstry
8 2 Bulkhead 'E'
16 Bulkhead 'D'
16 ...door & frame
16 3 100 ...icebox
24 2 20 100 ...sink & cabinet
4 250 ...stove
24 200 ...wheel and linkage
8 1 ...shelves
40 4 Roof/ceiling
8 30 Mast partner
4 16 tender storage chocks
12 200 Bits, cleats
-
-
==================
Center piece
==================-
8 2 Bulkhead 'D'
8 2 Bulkhead 'C'
16 200 ribs
16 4 bottom
24 4 sides
16 2 footwell
16 4 bin sides
16 2 bin hatches
16 2 centerboard well
16 3 centerboard
8 mast step
16 200 floorboards
16 300 steel bolt assemblies
=====================
Forward piece
=====================
12 2 100 Bulkhead 'C'
12 2 Bulkhead 'B'
12 2 Bulkhead 'A'
16 5 Bottom
24 5 Sides
40 5 top
4 step
12 2 WC door
24 2 shelfs
16 2 berth top
40 500 mattress/upholstry
12 1 vent box
-
-
=====================
Rigging
=====================
- 651 sf 4.25 2766.75 Sails
500 1 500 Lines
40 500 bf 4 2000 Mainmast
36 Foremast
40 booms & gaffs
500 pulleys, cleats
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
The Breakdown Schooner.
Bolger mentions in BWAOM that it would not take much heavier
scantlings to make it off-shore capable either. Would be interesting
how it might be upgraded now.
Certainly an anti-slap bow fillet. Perhaps a steel bottom plate and
a end plate on the rudder. I wonder if a winged-centerboard would be
considered or has that concept turned out to be just too complicated
for the average builder? No doubt a larger high-thrust 4-stroke
engine if heavier scantlings. Perhaps a wind generator and/or a
solar array on the forward deck.
Reading Jamie Orr's article about cruising the coast of Vancouver
Island and the lower B.C. coast would fit in with the fantasy.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/outings/scott/index.htm
I wonder where the one built by Bill Mckibben is now? That was the
area where he sailed I believe.
Nels
> There is a wheel on the front bulkhead inside the main cabin.Can't help but fantacize what the view might be like at the wheel of
>
The Breakdown Schooner.
Bolger mentions in BWAOM that it would not take much heavier
scantlings to make it off-shore capable either. Would be interesting
how it might be upgraded now.
Certainly an anti-slap bow fillet. Perhaps a steel bottom plate and
a end plate on the rudder. I wonder if a winged-centerboard would be
considered or has that concept turned out to be just too complicated
for the average builder? No doubt a larger high-thrust 4-stroke
engine if heavier scantlings. Perhaps a wind generator and/or a
solar array on the forward deck.
Reading Jamie Orr's article about cruising the coast of Vancouver
Island and the lower B.C. coast would fit in with the fantasy.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/outings/scott/index.htm
I wonder where the one built by Bill Mckibben is now? That was the
area where he sailed I believe.
Nels
On 4/14/06, pvanderwaart <pvanderwaart@...> wrote:
> > boat is ghosting at that time?There is a wheel on the front bulkhead inside the main cabin.
>
> Tiller is in the mid-ship cockpit, no?
> It's also extremely convenient for handling by yourself.Gee, maybe this PCB guy knows what he's doing.
Peter
> In one of the photos it looks like nobodyTiller is in the mid-ship cockpit, no?
> is at the wheel as he is louging in the center cockpit -
> but maybe the
> boat is ghosting at that time?
I am trying to avoid a "bicycle built for two" scenario with SWMBO and
I am looking for something singlehandable in the 20 to 25 foot range
with enough flat area somewhere for a double mattress.
Chris
I am looking for something singlehandable in the 20 to 25 foot range
with enough flat area somewhere for a double mattress.
Chris
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Lincoln Ross" <lincolnr@...> wrote:
>
> You're all spoiled. Even a Brick is comfortable for two for several
> hours! Buy mine and see. (New s.o. doesn't like to sail, likes to row.)
>
> Lincoln
> shamelessly promoting himself in hopes the IRS will leave him with a
> larger barrel to wear
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@> wrote:
> >
> > > My impression is that the singlehand schooner might be quick to
build,
> > > and a fun platform for learning the vagaries of gaff schooner
sailing,
> > > but that it would be too cramped for two people all day.
> > > Conversely might be too big for sailing alone.
> >
> > It's very comfortable for two for a daysail of many hours. You can't
> > comfortably cram two into the aft cockpit, but one can sail the boat
> > from the aft cockpit, and the other has a comfy seat in the
forward one.
> >
> > It's also extremely convenient for handling by yourself.
> >
> > --
> > Susan Davis <futabachan@>
> >
>
That depends. You don't tell us enough to know. I suspect it would cause
a lot of drag, but there are probably a gazillion configurations to
match what you wrote. Some of them are probably low drag.
a lot of drag, but there are probably a gazillion configurations to
match what you wrote. Some of them are probably low drag.
>I notice that no word has been said about the Folding Schooner, Can that be sailed single handed. The only weakness in this design seems to be the latch
>arrangement holding both bits together, but time has moved on, and now we have things called tie downs [Ratchet buckles] that would work ok.
>I am just starting building my one and was going to modify the outboard mount to copy the light scooner ,but after seeing what has been said I will
>give up that idea. next experiment would be-in the winter months to fit a swing keel [you are now thinking but it has twin dagger boards because of
>the mast, I would mount the keel using the slots used by the dagger boards , the keel would span between these two, would this give a lot of drag?
> Alex
>
> Would be a great boatNot to mention that it is home buildable in a small shop, and can be
hauled around on a small trailer!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Heywood" <alex.heywood@...> wrote:
Nor the Breakdown Schooner that Bill McKibben sailed single-handed
much of the time I believe. In one of the photos it looks like nobody
is at the wheel as he is louging in the center cockpit - but maybe the
boat is ghosting at that time?
http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/Page.html
This design has lots of advantages. with the big centerboard that is
outside the living area. Nice bedroom forward with double berth and
head. Big open central cockpit and stand-up headroom in the aft
section with berths for two guests. A good location for the dingy and
an enclosed motor on the centerline f'word of the rudder.
The booms are interesting in that they function a bit like sprit booms
and therefor a somewhat self-vanging and yet do not extend forward to
interfere with the jib and staysail.
Would be a great boat for a family of four or one or two couples.
Could probably handle 8or 10 guests on a day cruise.
A 50 footer that can sail right up to the beach or dry out flat on the
shoreline is rather a special beast. Looks good with just the tyvek
sails too!
Nels
>that be sailed single handed.
> I notice that no word has been said about the Folding Schooner, Can
Nor the Breakdown Schooner that Bill McKibben sailed single-handed
much of the time I believe. In one of the photos it looks like nobody
is at the wheel as he is louging in the center cockpit - but maybe the
boat is ghosting at that time?
http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/Page.html
This design has lots of advantages. with the big centerboard that is
outside the living area. Nice bedroom forward with double berth and
head. Big open central cockpit and stand-up headroom in the aft
section with berths for two guests. A good location for the dingy and
an enclosed motor on the centerline f'word of the rudder.
The booms are interesting in that they function a bit like sprit booms
and therefor a somewhat self-vanging and yet do not extend forward to
interfere with the jib and staysail.
Would be a great boat for a family of four or one or two couples.
Could probably handle 8or 10 guests on a day cruise.
A 50 footer that can sail right up to the beach or dry out flat on the
shoreline is rather a special beast. Looks good with just the tyvek
sails too!
Nels
I notice that no word has been said about the Folding Schooner, Can that be sailed single handed. The only weakness in this design seems to be the latch
arrangement holding both bits together, but time has moved on, and now we have things called tie downs [Ratchet buckles] that would work ok.
I am just starting building my one and was going to modify the outboard mount to copy the light scooner ,but after seeing what has been said I will
give up that idea. next experiment would be-in the winter months to fit a swing keel [you are now thinking but it has twin dagger boards because of
the mast, I would mount the keel using the slots used by the dagger boards , the keel would span between these two, would this give a lot of drag?
Alex
arrangement holding both bits together, but time has moved on, and now we have things called tie downs [Ratchet buckles] that would work ok.
I am just starting building my one and was going to modify the outboard mount to copy the light scooner ,but after seeing what has been said I will
give up that idea. next experiment would be-in the winter months to fit a swing keel [you are now thinking but it has twin dagger boards because of
the mast, I would mount the keel using the slots used by the dagger boards , the keel would span between these two, would this give a lot of drag?
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: Lincoln Ross
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:55 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Schooners
You're all spoiled. Even a Brick is comfortable for two for several
hours! Buy mine and see. (New s.o. doesn't like to sail, likes to row.)
Lincoln
shamelessly promoting himself in hopes the IRS will leave him with a
larger barrel to wear
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@...> wrote:
>
> > My impression is that the singlehand schooner might be quick to build,
> > and a fun platform for learning the vagaries of gaff schooner sailing,
> > but that it would be too cramped for two people all day.
> > Conversely might be too big for sailing alone.
>
> It's very comfortable for two for a daysail of many hours. You can't
> comfortably cram two into the aft cockpit, but one can sail the boat
> from the aft cockpit, and the other has a comfy seat in the forward one.
>
> It's also extremely convenient for handling by yourself.
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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You're all spoiled. Even a Brick is comfortable for two for several
hours! Buy mine and see. (New s.o. doesn't like to sail, likes to row.)
Lincoln
shamelessly promoting himself in hopes the IRS will leave him with a
larger barrel to wear
hours! Buy mine and see. (New s.o. doesn't like to sail, likes to row.)
Lincoln
shamelessly promoting himself in hopes the IRS will leave him with a
larger barrel to wear
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Davis" <futabachan@...> wrote:
>
> > My impression is that the singlehand schooner might be quick to build,
> > and a fun platform for learning the vagaries of gaff schooner sailing,
> > but that it would be too cramped for two people all day.
> > Conversely might be too big for sailing alone.
>
> It's very comfortable for two for a daysail of many hours. You can't
> comfortably cram two into the aft cockpit, but one can sail the boat
> from the aft cockpit, and the other has a comfy seat in the forward one.
>
> It's also extremely convenient for handling by yourself.
>
> --
> Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>
>http://hallman.org/webcam/FWIW, live this evening!
> My impression is that the singlehand schooner might be quick to build,It's very comfortable for two for a daysail of many hours. You can't
> and a fun platform for learning the vagaries of gaff schooner sailing,
> but that it would be too cramped for two people all day.
> Conversely might be too big for sailing alone.
comfortably cram two into the aft cockpit, but one can sail the boat
from the aft cockpit, and the other has a comfy seat in the forward one.
It's also extremely convenient for handling by yourself.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Chris,
I'd agree that you could singlehand the LS on a fair day, but it's a
handful, and you'd better plan on getting wet. It's basically a huge
dinghy in my opinion.
The reason I sealed the rear wells, center and bow was to mitigate the
amount of water shipped when you right it. Basically, with the
slightest wave action, we couldn't pump it as it floated awash - we
had a tow to the shore. And this was with lots of 4" foam under the
decks. I think it's a flaw (having those open).
"Allison Might", which was later burned, included vertical walls in
the wells, which might also help. I might also recommend a breakwater
on the foredeck - we poked the bowsprit right through waves more than
once.
The LS's a gas - very fast. A lot of the fun is having a crew in each
cockpit, each with a line to pull. When the wind pipes up, there's
plenty of yelling, as any when of them could take you over.
I still haven't found a good solution for the well, though I really
think notching the transom out might work (you could bridge the gap
with special gudgeons). Or, maybe you could build a forward-slanting
wall just inside the transon to knock the water back down.
Gregg Carlson
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Wetherill <wetherillc@...>
I'd agree that you could singlehand the LS on a fair day, but it's a
handful, and you'd better plan on getting wet. It's basically a huge
dinghy in my opinion.
The reason I sealed the rear wells, center and bow was to mitigate the
amount of water shipped when you right it. Basically, with the
slightest wave action, we couldn't pump it as it floated awash - we
had a tow to the shore. And this was with lots of 4" foam under the
decks. I think it's a flaw (having those open).
"Allison Might", which was later burned, included vertical walls in
the wells, which might also help. I might also recommend a breakwater
on the foredeck - we poked the bowsprit right through waves more than
once.
The LS's a gas - very fast. A lot of the fun is having a crew in each
cockpit, each with a line to pull. When the wind pipes up, there's
plenty of yelling, as any when of them could take you over.
I still haven't found a good solution for the well, though I really
think notching the transom out might work (you could bridge the gap
with special gudgeons). Or, maybe you could build a forward-slanting
wall just inside the transon to knock the water back down.
Gregg Carlson
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Wetherill <wetherillc@...>
> I was especially hoping to hear from you as your site and pictures of
> your work look so thorough. I figured you would have a simple and
> workable plug arrangement. Do you have problems with stinkpot wakes?
>
> btw, others have boxed in the side wells and forepeak to enhance
> flotation. Check outhttp://www.carlsondesign.com/lscooner.html
>
> V/R
> Chris
Hi Chris,
reservoir in central Colorado, so that's where we sail now. The lake
is at 8600 feet and is cold enough year round that jet skis,
waterskiing, tubing, and swimming are prohibited. There are plenty of
boats, but nearly all of the power boats are only moving from fishing
spot to fishing spot and the wakes are not a problem at all. It's a
good lake to sail on, since there is always wind, and the long axis of
the lake (some 5-6 miles, perhaps more) is perpendicular to the
direction of the prevailing wind. The downside is that the wind can
increase dramatically to 40-50 mph in just a few minutes, usually as a
precursor to the afternoon thunderstorm train. We usually just lower
sail and head in instead of reefing, since having the tallest wooden
stick on the lake never seemed like a good idea once the lightning
starts, and hail is always possible. This is the only place we've
sailed where most of the boats have right of way over us (vessels
anchored or engaged in fishing). It's a good rowboat/canoe/kayak lake,
too, as long you do it early in the morning before the wind pipes up,
or in the evening after the thunderstorm train passes. Lots of rock
formations and small canyons to explore this way.
done the stern compartments the same way. I'll try to get some photos
of my plug solution up on my web site in the next week or so - I've got
plenty of Diablo, Robote, and FastBrick photos to get posted as well.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> I was especially hoping to hear from you as your site and pictures ofThe land where our shop is situated is only a few miles from a large
> your work look so thorough. I figured you would have a simple and
> workable plug arrangement. Do you have problems with stinkpot wakes?
reservoir in central Colorado, so that's where we sail now. The lake
is at 8600 feet and is cold enough year round that jet skis,
waterskiing, tubing, and swimming are prohibited. There are plenty of
boats, but nearly all of the power boats are only moving from fishing
spot to fishing spot and the wakes are not a problem at all. It's a
good lake to sail on, since there is always wind, and the long axis of
the lake (some 5-6 miles, perhaps more) is perpendicular to the
direction of the prevailing wind. The downside is that the wind can
increase dramatically to 40-50 mph in just a few minutes, usually as a
precursor to the afternoon thunderstorm train. We usually just lower
sail and head in instead of reefing, since having the tallest wooden
stick on the lake never seemed like a good idea once the lightning
starts, and hail is always possible. This is the only place we've
sailed where most of the boats have right of way over us (vessels
anchored or engaged in fishing). It's a good rowboat/canoe/kayak lake,
too, as long you do it early in the morning before the wind pipes up,
or in the evening after the thunderstorm train passes. Lots of rock
formations and small canyons to explore this way.
> btw, others have boxed in the side wells and forepeak to enhanceI had seen this one before I started building mine, and should have
> flotation. Check outhttp://www.carlsondesign.com/lscooner.html
done the stern compartments the same way. I'll try to get some photos
of my plug solution up on my web site in the next week or so - I've got
plenty of Diablo, Robote, and FastBrick photos to get posted as well.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
Yes, between bouts of 'real life' I am still building Topaz Spyder,
the next task involves finish sanding of the prime painted bottom,
then 'bottom paint', then the flip.
http://hallman.org/webcam/
the next task involves finish sanding of the prime painted bottom,
then 'bottom paint', then the flip.
http://hallman.org/webcam/
On 4/11/06, ravenouspi <ravenous@...> wrote:
> Hey Bruce,
> you still got that web cam or pictures of your topaz build going?
>
> I was enjoying that for a while, but I got busy and lost track of the
> link.
>
> Rhett
Hey Bruce,
you still got that web cam or pictures of your topaz build going?
I was enjoying that for a while, but I got busy and lost track of the
link.
Rhett
you still got that web cam or pictures of your topaz build going?
I was enjoying that for a while, but I got busy and lost track of the
link.
Rhett
Chris--I built my "Scooner" (now called Light Schooner) in the late 80's. I built her outside, covering up the work with a tarp when I wasn't working on it. The hull goes together quickly, but there are a lot of bits and pieces (2 masts, two gaffs, three booms, a tiller, a rudder and a daggerboard to fabricate and finish). I hinged the plate on the motor well and held it down with a barrell lock.
The Light Scooner carries a lot of sail. PCB claims that he "piled the sail area on". You can single hand it in very light air (say up to 5 mph). However, there are a couple of strings to tend and some "rail meat" comes in handy if the wind pcks up. Given enough crew (say 4 adults) and enough wind (say 10 to 15), the boat will fly.
It is possible to sail under main alone with a noticeable weather helm. I used to wow the locals with this trick sailing between the launch dock and the rigging dock at the local sailing club.
Although these boats will take off when sailing off the wind, they are not close winded.
Mine perished when a tree blew down on it during a microburst. If you decide to build one, I have a set of tanbark sails that I would be happy to let go cheap.
John T
The Light Scooner carries a lot of sail. PCB claims that he "piled the sail area on". You can single hand it in very light air (say up to 5 mph). However, there are a couple of strings to tend and some "rail meat" comes in handy if the wind pcks up. Given enough crew (say 4 adults) and enough wind (say 10 to 15), the boat will fly.
It is possible to sail under main alone with a noticeable weather helm. I used to wow the locals with this trick sailing between the launch dock and the rigging dock at the local sailing club.
Although these boats will take off when sailing off the wind, they are not close winded.
Mine perished when a tree blew down on it during a microburst. If you decide to build one, I have a set of tanbark sails that I would be happy to let go cheap.
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Wetherill
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:13 PM
Subject: [bolger] Schooners
I have been looking through the bolger groups for info on Light
Schooner and Singlehand Schooner. I have gone to several offsite
references. I would like to know more about the experiences of
building and sailing these two types. In particular, I wonder if the
light schooner can be singlehanded effectively, how builders resolved
the engine well door puzzle, how many hours they took to build and
their general sailing characteristics.
My impression is that the singlehand schooner might be quick to build,
and a fun platform for learning the vagaries of gaff schooner sailing,
but that it would be too cramped for two people all day.
Converselymight be too big for sailing alone.
Chris
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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Thanks Jon,
I was especially hoping to hear from you as your site and pictures of
your work look so thorough. I figured you would have a simple and
workable plug arrangement. Do you have problems with stinkpot wakes?
btw, others have boxed in the side wells and forepeak to enhance
flotation. Check outhttp://www.carlsondesign.com/lscooner.html
V/R
Chris
I was especially hoping to hear from you as your site and pictures of
your work look so thorough. I figured you would have a simple and
workable plug arrangement. Do you have problems with stinkpot wakes?
btw, others have boxed in the side wells and forepeak to enhance
flotation. Check outhttp://www.carlsondesign.com/lscooner.html
V/R
Chris
Hi Chris,
schooner rig with two identical gaff sails for us. The point of that
rig was two-fold: 1) Our big cruiser design that PB&F are (hopefully
someday) working on for us has two identical sails, and 2) my garage,
where I was building at the time, is too small to get the boat inside
with the bowsprit of the original. This sailplan also included a
kick-up rudder. I have yet to find and post all of the construction
and sailing photos on my website, but there are a few in one of the
Bolger groups file sections and one on my boatbuilding page.
Mine took about 200 hours to build, but with PB&F's permission, I
boxed in the cockpits and gave her wider side decks to make dry (even
watertight if hatches are used) stowage for camping gear. I also
tricked her out with pinrails and nice coamings, which added still
more building time. You could build the stock design much more
quickly, perhaps 100 hours or so.
After three seasons, I don't think it's feasible to sail the boat
single-handed unless it was double reefed at the dock and I ran the
foresail halyards back to the aft cockpit. Even then, it would be a
dicey proposition if the wind piped up suddenly. The lake I sail on
is very cold, and if I ever get out of the boat, it's going to be
very difficult to get back in, if I can even catch her. Even with
the sheets slack, this long, narrow hull will forereach surprisingly
fast, and if you have enough wind to knock it over, you will not
catch the boat unless you were tethered to it or managed to keep hold
of some rigging, unless it stays on its side and doesn't drift away
in that condition. Part of the problem, and will apply to the
original rig as well, is that the mainsail is so close to the center
of effort that the boat will not weathercock under mainsail alone.
She just takes off no matter how much slack you give the sheet. It
really makes reefing an adventure, since even with the sails down she
lies ahull and before you know it you've drifted pretty far since the
windage of the rig is high compared to the mass of the boat.
Thankfully, we haven't dumped her over yet, and we mean not to.
Based on my experience, the boat should be manageable with just the
mainsail, despite it's aft center of effort. The rudder can take a
lot of the lateral load. I have yet to try this, however.
This boat really shines with three total crew, although I've sailed
her with just my wife or my neighbor aboard and did fine in moderate
weather. Two people is enough to hold her up much of the time, but
three is best and four still better in a good breeze unless you
reef. With the right number of crew aboard, or the right sail
combination/reefs this boat absolutely flies across the lake, and is
the most exhilirating sailing experience I've ever had.
It is certainly not crowded for two at all, since you each get your
own individual 6'-6" or 7' cockpit. It's a 24' boat after all. The
only space problem we have is that with the narrower cockpits I built
(about 25" wide) two people ducking the boom when coming about can
get in each other's way until you get practiced at it.
I hate the motor well, but the plug I made fits well, and is held
down by cams mounted on either side of the interior of the well
sides. This works fine, but very strong turn buttons would do the
job - I just couldn't get that to work out without boring right
through the bottom for the fasteners. You will still have some water
in the well most of the time, and if you ever lose the plug (as I did
on her maiden voyage by forgetting to tether it to the boat), the
whole stern will fill with water. If I were doing it again, I'd deck
over the stern compartments outboard of the well top and put
deckplates into those compartments. It can be awkward to get the
plug in and out of the aperture, and it's certainly not a design
where you can instantly bring the motor into play - just make sure to
get the sails down and the motor going well before you really need it.
Don't let any of this discourage you from building this boat - it's a
blast to sail, but like all boats it requires experience and prudence
to handle it safely. You will not forget sailing a craft this fast,
and it will really turn heads, especially if you sail it where few
traditional boats ply the water, as we do in Colorado. They really
go agog when we've got her "reading both pages," but we only do that
in light wind since the booms are so long and low (an accidental jibe
could be quite destructive, if not downright dangerous to one's
head). Be sure to fly large flags for maximum effect.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> In particular, I wonder if theresolved
> light schooner can be singlehanded effectively, how builders
> the engine well door puzzle, how many hours they took to build andFour years ago I built the Light Schooner and Phil drew a nice cat-
> their general sailing characteristics.
schooner rig with two identical gaff sails for us. The point of that
rig was two-fold: 1) Our big cruiser design that PB&F are (hopefully
someday) working on for us has two identical sails, and 2) my garage,
where I was building at the time, is too small to get the boat inside
with the bowsprit of the original. This sailplan also included a
kick-up rudder. I have yet to find and post all of the construction
and sailing photos on my website, but there are a few in one of the
Bolger groups file sections and one on my boatbuilding page.
Mine took about 200 hours to build, but with PB&F's permission, I
boxed in the cockpits and gave her wider side decks to make dry (even
watertight if hatches are used) stowage for camping gear. I also
tricked her out with pinrails and nice coamings, which added still
more building time. You could build the stock design much more
quickly, perhaps 100 hours or so.
After three seasons, I don't think it's feasible to sail the boat
single-handed unless it was double reefed at the dock and I ran the
foresail halyards back to the aft cockpit. Even then, it would be a
dicey proposition if the wind piped up suddenly. The lake I sail on
is very cold, and if I ever get out of the boat, it's going to be
very difficult to get back in, if I can even catch her. Even with
the sheets slack, this long, narrow hull will forereach surprisingly
fast, and if you have enough wind to knock it over, you will not
catch the boat unless you were tethered to it or managed to keep hold
of some rigging, unless it stays on its side and doesn't drift away
in that condition. Part of the problem, and will apply to the
original rig as well, is that the mainsail is so close to the center
of effort that the boat will not weathercock under mainsail alone.
She just takes off no matter how much slack you give the sheet. It
really makes reefing an adventure, since even with the sails down she
lies ahull and before you know it you've drifted pretty far since the
windage of the rig is high compared to the mass of the boat.
Thankfully, we haven't dumped her over yet, and we mean not to.
Based on my experience, the boat should be manageable with just the
mainsail, despite it's aft center of effort. The rudder can take a
lot of the lateral load. I have yet to try this, however.
This boat really shines with three total crew, although I've sailed
her with just my wife or my neighbor aboard and did fine in moderate
weather. Two people is enough to hold her up much of the time, but
three is best and four still better in a good breeze unless you
reef. With the right number of crew aboard, or the right sail
combination/reefs this boat absolutely flies across the lake, and is
the most exhilirating sailing experience I've ever had.
It is certainly not crowded for two at all, since you each get your
own individual 6'-6" or 7' cockpit. It's a 24' boat after all. The
only space problem we have is that with the narrower cockpits I built
(about 25" wide) two people ducking the boom when coming about can
get in each other's way until you get practiced at it.
I hate the motor well, but the plug I made fits well, and is held
down by cams mounted on either side of the interior of the well
sides. This works fine, but very strong turn buttons would do the
job - I just couldn't get that to work out without boring right
through the bottom for the fasteners. You will still have some water
in the well most of the time, and if you ever lose the plug (as I did
on her maiden voyage by forgetting to tether it to the boat), the
whole stern will fill with water. If I were doing it again, I'd deck
over the stern compartments outboard of the well top and put
deckplates into those compartments. It can be awkward to get the
plug in and out of the aperture, and it's certainly not a design
where you can instantly bring the motor into play - just make sure to
get the sails down and the motor going well before you really need it.
Don't let any of this discourage you from building this boat - it's a
blast to sail, but like all boats it requires experience and prudence
to handle it safely. You will not forget sailing a craft this fast,
and it will really turn heads, especially if you sail it where few
traditional boats ply the water, as we do in Colorado. They really
go agog when we've got her "reading both pages," but we only do that
in light wind since the booms are so long and low (an accidental jibe
could be quite destructive, if not downright dangerous to one's
head). Be sure to fly large flags for maximum effect.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> info on Light Schooner and Singlehand Schooner.Of course, I have no clue, but should that stop me from spouting my opinion? :)
I would bet that the Light Schooner could be sailed singlehanded, but
only in very light air or only with a partial set of its sails. By
defintion, the Singlehanded can be sailed singlehanded.
Building time could vary by a huge factor, depending on quality of
workmanship and finish.
Omiting the fiberglass (and even paint), with shop grade finish and
airpowered nails or staples I bet I could build either in less than a
week. 'Museum quality' craftmanship could take a lifetime.
A big difference between the Light Schooner and the Single Handed
Schooner is the ballast. Both can be knocked down, but the SHS is
much more prone to pop quickly back up.
Of course, considering Bolger schooners, you shouldn't neglect the
Folding Schooner!
I have been looking through the bolger groups for info on Light
Schooner and Singlehand Schooner. I have gone to several offsite
references. I would like to know more about the experiences of
building and sailing these two types. In particular, I wonder if the
light schooner can be singlehanded effectively, how builders resolved
the engine well door puzzle, how many hours they took to build and
their general sailing characteristics.
My impression is that the singlehand schooner might be quick to build,
and a fun platform for learning the vagaries of gaff schooner sailing,
but that it would be too cramped for two people all day.
Converselymight be too big for sailing alone.
Chris
Schooner and Singlehand Schooner. I have gone to several offsite
references. I would like to know more about the experiences of
building and sailing these two types. In particular, I wonder if the
light schooner can be singlehanded effectively, how builders resolved
the engine well door puzzle, how many hours they took to build and
their general sailing characteristics.
My impression is that the singlehand schooner might be quick to build,
and a fun platform for learning the vagaries of gaff schooner sailing,
but that it would be too cramped for two people all day.
Converselymight be too big for sailing alone.
Chris