Re: Design With Plywood - Viewing DFX files
Hello Everybody,
I have tried several of the DXF viewers and could not get any to
work. They all seemed to be teasers for paid products. The best
results I've had so far is with OpenOffice Draw available free from
www.OpenOffice.Org I need to work with it more. Started working with
Plyboats and then FreeShip.
Somehow I was able to make Plyboats work in XPpro and print to a
parallel laser printer. Even have an icon on the desktop that works.
From and Plyboats Email to Ray Clark:
I had some problems with the DEMO not accepting mouse and cursor
movement when I tried to run the program from the XP command promp.
I extracted the ZIP some other way in XP, maybe using XP's extractor
and an icon was placed on the desktop and the program now works.
This may help if someone else has the same problem
Plyboats running in whatever mysterious way actually takes much
more time to execute calculations than FreeShip.
Roger Van Arnam
Micanopy Beach Florida
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
I have tried several of the DXF viewers and could not get any to
work. They all seemed to be teasers for paid products. The best
results I've had so far is with OpenOffice Draw available free from
www.OpenOffice.Org I need to work with it more. Started working with
Plyboats and then FreeShip.
Somehow I was able to make Plyboats work in XPpro and print to a
parallel laser printer. Even have an icon on the desktop that works.
From and Plyboats Email to Ray Clark:
I had some problems with the DEMO not accepting mouse and cursor
movement when I tried to run the program from the XP command promp.
I extracted the ZIP some other way in XP, maybe using XP's extractor
and an icon was placed on the desktop and the program now works.
This may help if someone else has the same problem
Plyboats running in whatever mysterious way actually takes much
more time to execute calculations than FreeShip.
Roger Van Arnam
Micanopy Beach Florida
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
>to
> Hi Bruce,
>
> ...snip...
> > I also agree that hull.exe is nice. Though, FreeShip
> > has hull.exe beat ten times over when it comes to modeling and
> > visualization, key features when prototyping.
>
> Several years ago I used Plyboats, but it never ported quite right
> W2K, and since it has a lot of limitations (only two chines, amongprint
> others), I gave up on it. I've just downloaded Free!ship and look
> forward to giving it a try. One question for you, though, is how
> expanded panel dimensions are output from the program. Do I need
> some other application that can read .dxf files, or can I just
> out the panel dimensions from Free!ship? Will it translatebulkhead
> locations onto the panels?and
>
> I was thinking of starting with the offsets for Cartoon 40, scaling
> the length at 125% per PCB's suggestion, and getting panel shapes
> dimensions from the application. Think this will work? If itdoes,
> it would allow me to assemble the sides and bulkheads, then use ajig
> to hold everything square, rather than making critical measurementsdifferent
> on the jig, erecting the bulkheads, then spiling the panel shapes.
>
> > I have the personal theory that to get a boat design 'right' you
> > need to go through many many itierations by trial and error.
> ...snip...
>
> I agree, and think it's true even using the software tools
> available. Using Plyboats, I made many cardboard models of
> hull shapes, including a lot of sharpies and box-keel designs. Itin
> was always interesting to see just how bad a model could look when
> the wire-frame in the software looked so good. Slab-side sharpies
> particular can look fine on the screen, but not so great in "the
> flesh." Part of the problem was Plyboats' limitation of fixing the
> lowest point of the sheer at the point of maximum beam.
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
Chris,
I've had some pretty interesting results using arcs or arches. Arcs can
be manipulated geometrically because their explicit mathematical
expression is relatively simple compared to NURBS. Arcs are simple to
loft. All you need to know is the radius of curvature and the
vertual center of radius. Using a compass or a string, you can draw
your arc.
I started using arcs as a means of analyzing other designers' work. For
example, looking at Phil Bolger's Tortis and Brick in the profile and
using the waterline as the chord, you see an approximate arc with a
camber of about 10% of the chord below the water line. I reduced this
arc to a single number, expressed as the arc Tan ( Camber/ (1/2
chord)). By looking at several designs, I found that an arc of about 10
degrees in the profile of the canoe body is characteristic of a
relatively slow boat capable of carrying a large load.
If chord is 10.7639 units in length, camber is 1.0, then I would call
this a 10.5258 degree arc. By naming it in degrees it is easier to
visuallize, since the angle is close to the entry angle.
These arcs' geometry can be easily manipulated with a calculator - Easy
to design with and loft in cardstock or plywood. I use a spreadsheet
and a caculator for complex designs. The camber of an arc in a plywood
pannel can be established from the arc in the profile and the angle of
the pannel from the vertical. For example, say you choose the arc for
the profile view, yet the topside is flared out 6 degrees. The profile
arc can then be rotated through 6 degrees using triginometry to find the
camber of the arc required on the plywood pannel. Now, you need to
know the chord for the arc in the plywood pannel.
Say you have a plan view with an arch for the side of a scow. This
waterline arc effects the same pannel we were just discussing. This
time we rotate the plan view arc until it's camber is perpendicular to
the camber of the arc we just rotated from the profile. The length of
the perimeter of the plan view arch rotated will give you the length of
the chord you would need to loft the pannel for the topside.
Sorry if this is confusing. It seems a bit complex to be describing by
text. Hopefully it gives you some idea about the concept of designing
with arcs. I'll try answering questions about the technique if you have
any.
Michael Collins
Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:
I've had some pretty interesting results using arcs or arches. Arcs can
be manipulated geometrically because their explicit mathematical
expression is relatively simple compared to NURBS. Arcs are simple to
loft. All you need to know is the radius of curvature and the
vertual center of radius. Using a compass or a string, you can draw
your arc.
I started using arcs as a means of analyzing other designers' work. For
example, looking at Phil Bolger's Tortis and Brick in the profile and
using the waterline as the chord, you see an approximate arc with a
camber of about 10% of the chord below the water line. I reduced this
arc to a single number, expressed as the arc Tan ( Camber/ (1/2
chord)). By looking at several designs, I found that an arc of about 10
degrees in the profile of the canoe body is characteristic of a
relatively slow boat capable of carrying a large load.
If chord is 10.7639 units in length, camber is 1.0, then I would call
this a 10.5258 degree arc. By naming it in degrees it is easier to
visuallize, since the angle is close to the entry angle.
These arcs' geometry can be easily manipulated with a calculator - Easy
to design with and loft in cardstock or plywood. I use a spreadsheet
and a caculator for complex designs. The camber of an arc in a plywood
pannel can be established from the arc in the profile and the angle of
the pannel from the vertical. For example, say you choose the arc for
the profile view, yet the topside is flared out 6 degrees. The profile
arc can then be rotated through 6 degrees using triginometry to find the
camber of the arc required on the plywood pannel. Now, you need to
know the chord for the arc in the plywood pannel.
Say you have a plan view with an arch for the side of a scow. This
waterline arc effects the same pannel we were just discussing. This
time we rotate the plan view arc until it's camber is perpendicular to
the camber of the arc we just rotated from the profile. The length of
the perimeter of the plan view arch rotated will give you the length of
the chord you would need to loft the pannel for the topside.
Sorry if this is confusing. It seems a bit complex to be describing by
text. Hopefully it gives you some idea about the concept of designing
with arcs. I'll try answering questions about the technique if you have
any.
Michael Collins
Christopher C. Wetherill wrote:
> I am looking for ways to do it with pencil and paper. I have been playing
> with hull.exe for a while and it's nice, but I like being able to do
> things
> the non-electric way.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> Bruce Hallman
> Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:51 PM
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
>
>
> > From: "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...>
> > Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
>
> There are two issues,
>
> (1) the strength/durability of plywood materials, and
> (2) the topology of developed shapes / the curvature of plywood.
>
> For (2), the development of curved shapes by bending flat sheets,
> you can skip the book theory altogether and experiment directly
> with computer programs that automatically take care of the mathatics
> of bending flat plates.
>
> I especially like the opensource software FreeShip.
> [Also, I like the Hulls.exe software.] Both of these
> allow you to easily experiment with the bending of flat plates
> into curved surfaces.
>
> My personal favorite is to print the experimental hulls onto
> thin cardboard, and use sissors and tape to make models.
>
> After just a little practice you can get from an idea in your head
> to a 3D scale model in about one hour.
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/71601266/
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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Chris,
I've had some pretty interesting results using arcs or arches. Arcs can
be manipulated geometrically because their explicit mathematical
expression is relatively simple compared to NURBS. Arcs are simple to
loft. All you need to know is the radius of curvature and the
vertual center of radius. Using a compass or a string, you can draw
your arc.
I started using arcs as a means of analyzing other designers' work. For
example, looking at Phil Bolger's Tortis and Brick in the profile and
using the waterline as the chord, you see an approximate arc with a
camber of about 10% of the chord below the water line. I reduced this
arc to a single number, expressed as the arc Tan ( Camber/ (1/2
chord)). By looking at several designs, I found that an arc of about 10
degrees in the profile of the canoe body is characteristic of a
relatively slow boat capable of carrying a large load.
If chord is 10.7639 units in length, camber is 1.0, then I would call
this a 10.5258 degree arc. By naming it in degrees it is easier to
visuallize, since the angle is close to the entry angle.
These arcs' geometry can be easily manipulated with a calculator - Easy
to design with and loft in cardstock or plywood. I use a spreadsheet
and a caculator for complex designs. The camber of an arc in a plywood
pannel can be established from the arc in the profile and the angle of
the pannel from the vertical. For example, say you choose the arc for
the profile view, yet the topside is flared out 6 degrees. The profile
arc can then be rotated through 6 degrees using triginometry to find the
camber of the arc required on the plywood pannel. Now, you need to
know the chord for the arc in the plywood pannel.
Say you have a plan view with an arch for the side of a scow. This
waterline arc effects the same pannel we were just discussing. This
time we rotate the plan view arc until it's camber is perpendicular to
the camber of the arc we just rotated from the profile. The length of
the perimeter of the plan view arch rotated will give you the length of
the chord you would need to loft the pannel for the topside.
Sorry if this is confusing. It seems a bit complex to be describing by
text. Hopefully it gives you some idea about the concept of designing
with arcs. I'll try answering questions about the technique if you have
any.
Michael Collins
I've had some pretty interesting results using arcs or arches. Arcs can
be manipulated geometrically because their explicit mathematical
expression is relatively simple compared to NURBS. Arcs are simple to
loft. All you need to know is the radius of curvature and the
vertual center of radius. Using a compass or a string, you can draw
your arc.
I started using arcs as a means of analyzing other designers' work. For
example, looking at Phil Bolger's Tortis and Brick in the profile and
using the waterline as the chord, you see an approximate arc with a
camber of about 10% of the chord below the water line. I reduced this
arc to a single number, expressed as the arc Tan ( Camber/ (1/2
chord)). By looking at several designs, I found that an arc of about 10
degrees in the profile of the canoe body is characteristic of a
relatively slow boat capable of carrying a large load.
If chord is 10.7639 units in length, camber is 1.0, then I would call
this a 10.5258 degree arc. By naming it in degrees it is easier to
visuallize, since the angle is close to the entry angle.
These arcs' geometry can be easily manipulated with a calculator - Easy
to design with and loft in cardstock or plywood. I use a spreadsheet
and a caculator for complex designs. The camber of an arc in a plywood
pannel can be established from the arc in the profile and the angle of
the pannel from the vertical. For example, say you choose the arc for
the profile view, yet the topside is flared out 6 degrees. The profile
arc can then be rotated through 6 degrees using triginometry to find the
camber of the arc required on the plywood pannel. Now, you need to
know the chord for the arc in the plywood pannel.
Say you have a plan view with an arch for the side of a scow. This
waterline arc effects the same pannel we were just discussing. This
time we rotate the plan view arc until it's camber is perpendicular to
the camber of the arc we just rotated from the profile. The length of
the perimeter of the plan view arch rotated will give you the length of
the chord you would need to loft the pannel for the topside.
Sorry if this is confusing. It seems a bit complex to be describing by
text. Hopefully it gives you some idea about the concept of designing
with arcs. I'll try answering questions about the technique if you have
any.
Michael Collins
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > forward to giving it a try. One question for you, though, is howI should have looked before clicking 'send' but the new version of
> > expanded panel dimensions are output from the program.
Freeship, according to the website, has the new feature
"Export boundary coordinates of developed plates to textfile"
Which seems to fit the bill.
http://www.freeship.org/
> forward to giving it a try. One question for you, though, is howI am not the best person to answer that question, as I have not kept
> expanded panel dimensions are output from the program.
up with Freeship since November of 2005. At that point in time, the
expanded panel & bulkhead dimensions was 'wishlisted' for software
development, and exporting to Autocad and a plotter was the best choice.
Check here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freeship_HTandT_Group
or the Sourceforge Freeship pages.
Hi Bruce,
...snip...
W2K, and since it has a lot of limitations (only two chines, among
others), I gave up on it. I've just downloaded Free!ship and look
forward to giving it a try. One question for you, though, is how
expanded panel dimensions are output from the program. Do I need
some other application that can read .dxf files, or can I just print
out the panel dimensions from Free!ship? Will it translate bulkhead
locations onto the panels?
I was thinking of starting with the offsets for Cartoon 40, scaling
the length at 125% per PCB's suggestion, and getting panel shapes and
dimensions from the application. Think this will work? If it does,
it would allow me to assemble the sides and bulkheads, then use a jig
to hold everything square, rather than making critical measurements
on the jig, erecting the bulkheads, then spiling the panel shapes.
I agree, and think it's true even using the software tools
available. Using Plyboats, I made many cardboard models of different
hull shapes, including a lot of sharpies and box-keel designs. It
was always interesting to see just how bad a model could look when
the wire-frame in the software looked so good. Slab-side sharpies in
particular can look fine on the screen, but not so great in "the
flesh." Part of the problem was Plyboats' limitation of fixing the
lowest point of the sheer at the point of maximum beam.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
...snip...
> I also agree that hull.exe is nice. Though, FreeShipSeveral years ago I used Plyboats, but it never ported quite right to
> has hull.exe beat ten times over when it comes to modeling and
> visualization, key features when prototyping.
W2K, and since it has a lot of limitations (only two chines, among
others), I gave up on it. I've just downloaded Free!ship and look
forward to giving it a try. One question for you, though, is how
expanded panel dimensions are output from the program. Do I need
some other application that can read .dxf files, or can I just print
out the panel dimensions from Free!ship? Will it translate bulkhead
locations onto the panels?
I was thinking of starting with the offsets for Cartoon 40, scaling
the length at 125% per PCB's suggestion, and getting panel shapes and
dimensions from the application. Think this will work? If it does,
it would allow me to assemble the sides and bulkheads, then use a jig
to hold everything square, rather than making critical measurements
on the jig, erecting the bulkheads, then spiling the panel shapes.
> I have the personal theory that to get a boat design 'right' you...snip...
> need to go through many many itierations by trial and error.
I agree, and think it's true even using the software tools
available. Using Plyboats, I made many cardboard models of different
hull shapes, including a lot of sharpies and box-keel designs. It
was always interesting to see just how bad a model could look when
the wire-frame in the software looked so good. Slab-side sharpies in
particular can look fine on the screen, but not so great in "the
flesh." Part of the problem was Plyboats' limitation of fixing the
lowest point of the sheer at the point of maximum beam.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
A piece of stiff paper of thin cardboard enforces its own "just like
plywood" rules. You can maintain a certain bottom-centerline profile (which
curve would be planar in the vertical orientation) and a certain planar
chine curve (with its plane vertical, horizontal, and fore-and-aft, or at
any other orientation), by fixing (gluing) in the workspace a thin planar
piece of heavy cardboard with the curve of your choice cut in its edge.
Then force the paper or cardboard against the rigid card-edge with fingers,
glue or complementary curves cut in other card-edges. The only rules being
enforced in this little system are that the paper will (must) act like
plywood, and the two card-edge curves will be maintained. The edges of the
paper (representing the plywood) can then be trimmed to a pleasing or
functional curve. The starting curves, alternatively, can be the shear and
chine. - Bill
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Christopher C. Wetherill
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 4:41 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
I am looking for ways to do it with pencil and paper. I have been playing
with hull.exe for a while and it's nice, but I like being able to do things
the non-electric way.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:51 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
(1) the strength/durability of plywood materials, and
(2) the topology of developed shapes / the curvature of plywood.
For (2), the development of curved shapes by bending flat sheets,
you can skip the book theory altogether and experiment directly
with computer programs that automatically take care of the mathatics
of bending flat plates.
I especially like the opensource software FreeShip.
[Also, I like the Hulls.exe software.] Both of these
allow you to easily experiment with the bending of flat plates
into curved surfaces.
My personal favorite is to print the experimental hulls onto
thin cardboard, and use sissors and tape to make models.
After just a little practice you can get from an idea in your head
to a 3D scale model in about one hour.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/71601266/
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plywood" rules. You can maintain a certain bottom-centerline profile (which
curve would be planar in the vertical orientation) and a certain planar
chine curve (with its plane vertical, horizontal, and fore-and-aft, or at
any other orientation), by fixing (gluing) in the workspace a thin planar
piece of heavy cardboard with the curve of your choice cut in its edge.
Then force the paper or cardboard against the rigid card-edge with fingers,
glue or complementary curves cut in other card-edges. The only rules being
enforced in this little system are that the paper will (must) act like
plywood, and the two card-edge curves will be maintained. The edges of the
paper (representing the plywood) can then be trimmed to a pleasing or
functional curve. The starting curves, alternatively, can be the shear and
chine. - Bill
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Christopher C. Wetherill
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 4:41 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
I am looking for ways to do it with pencil and paper. I have been playing
with hull.exe for a while and it's nice, but I like being able to do things
the non-electric way.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:51 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
> From: "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...>There are two issues,
> Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
(1) the strength/durability of plywood materials, and
(2) the topology of developed shapes / the curvature of plywood.
For (2), the development of curved shapes by bending flat sheets,
you can skip the book theory altogether and experiment directly
with computer programs that automatically take care of the mathatics
of bending flat plates.
I especially like the opensource software FreeShip.
[Also, I like the Hulls.exe software.] Both of these
allow you to easily experiment with the bending of flat plates
into curved surfaces.
My personal favorite is to print the experimental hulls onto
thin cardboard, and use sissors and tape to make models.
After just a little practice you can get from an idea in your head
to a 3D scale model in about one hour.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/71601266/
Bolger rules!!!
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On 5/3/06, Christopher C. Wetherill <wetherillc@...> wrote:
using pencil and paper. I also agree that hull.exe is nice. Though, FreeShip
has hull.exe beat ten times over when it comes to modeling and visualization,
key features when prototyping.
I have the personal theory that to get a boat design 'right' you need to go
through many many itierations by trial and error. This is possible in one's head
(but only if you are a genius like Bolger or Herreshoff), or with
computers (though
not with pencil + paper). Quick 'trial and error' prototyping is
practical now for
ordinary people for the first time in the history because of this software.
> I am looking for ways to do it with pencil and paper. I have been playingCan't argue with you there, as I too have worked to develop expanding panels
> with hull.exe for a while and it's nice, but I like being able to do things
> the non-electric way.
using pencil and paper. I also agree that hull.exe is nice. Though, FreeShip
has hull.exe beat ten times over when it comes to modeling and visualization,
key features when prototyping.
I have the personal theory that to get a boat design 'right' you need to go
through many many itierations by trial and error. This is possible in one's head
(but only if you are a genius like Bolger or Herreshoff), or with
computers (though
not with pencil + paper). Quick 'trial and error' prototyping is
practical now for
ordinary people for the first time in the history because of this software.
I am looking for ways to do it with pencil and paper. I have been playing
with hull.exe for a while and it's nice, but I like being able to do things
the non-electric way.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:51 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
(1) the strength/durability of plywood materials, and
(2) the topology of developed shapes / the curvature of plywood.
For (2), the development of curved shapes by bending flat sheets,
you can skip the book theory altogether and experiment directly
with computer programs that automatically take care of the mathatics
of bending flat plates.
I especially like the opensource software FreeShip.
[Also, I like the Hulls.exe software.] Both of these
allow you to easily experiment with the bending of flat plates
into curved surfaces.
My personal favorite is to print the experimental hulls onto
thin cardboard, and use sissors and tape to make models.
After just a little practice you can get from an idea in your head
to a 3D scale model in about one hour.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/71601266/
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
with hull.exe for a while and it's nice, but I like being able to do things
the non-electric way.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:51 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
> From: "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...>There are two issues,
> Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
(1) the strength/durability of plywood materials, and
(2) the topology of developed shapes / the curvature of plywood.
For (2), the development of curved shapes by bending flat sheets,
you can skip the book theory altogether and experiment directly
with computer programs that automatically take care of the mathatics
of bending flat plates.
I especially like the opensource software FreeShip.
[Also, I like the Hulls.exe software.] Both of these
allow you to easily experiment with the bending of flat plates
into curved surfaces.
My personal favorite is to print the experimental hulls onto
thin cardboard, and use sissors and tape to make models.
After just a little practice you can get from an idea in your head
to a 3D scale model in about one hour.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/71601266/
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
> From: "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...>There are two issues,
> Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
(1) the strength/durability of plywood materials, and
(2) the topology of developed shapes / the curvature of plywood.
For (2), the development of curved shapes by bending flat sheets,
you can skip the book theory altogether and experiment directly
with computer programs that automatically take care of the mathatics
of bending flat plates.
I especially like the opensource software FreeShip.
[Also, I like the Hulls.exe software.] Both of these
allow you to easily experiment with the bending of flat plates
into curved surfaces.
My personal favorite is to print the experimental hulls onto
thin cardboard, and use sissors and tape to make models.
After just a little practice you can get from an idea in your head
to a 3D scale model in about one hour.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/71601266/
Looked it up on boofinder and got this one interesting comment
The best introduction to working with and from boat lines ever printed." John Gardner, curator, Mystic Seaport Museum.
HJ
The best introduction to working with and from boat lines ever printed." John Gardner, curator, Mystic Seaport Museum.
HJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...>
Date: Wednesday, May 3, 2006 9:40 am
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
> This title by Rabl is in print: "Ship and aircraft fairing and
> development,for draftsmen and loftsmen and sheet metal workers".
> I do not know if it
> answers my questions. I have it on order at my local book shop.
> Anothertitle, "Practical Principles of Naval Architecture" is out
> of print, but
> some editions are on the used market.
>
> Chris
>
This title by Rabl is in print: "Ship and aircraft fairing and development,
for draftsmen and loftsmen and sheet metal workers". I do not know if it
answers my questions. I have it on order at my local book shop. Another
title, "Practical Principles of Naval Architecture" is out of print, but
some editions are on the used market.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
pvanderwaart
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 11:25 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
following due to being a prolific and amusing writer. He knew what he
was doing as a designer since he earned his living in the big ship
design/building business. His best-known book is Boatbuilding In Your
Own Backyard, published 50 years ago or so, and somewhat out of date.
It's about building, though, and not design.
I think that Rabl may have published a design book, but if so, I've
never seen it, nor do I know the title. It would be a great thing to find.
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
for draftsmen and loftsmen and sheet metal workers". I do not know if it
answers my questions. I have it on order at my local book shop. Another
title, "Practical Principles of Naval Architecture" is out of print, but
some editions are on the used market.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
pvanderwaart
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 11:25 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Design With Plywood
> Isn't there supposed to be a pertinent book by a guy named Rabl?The late Sam Rabl was one of those enthusiasts who drew a huge
following due to being a prolific and amusing writer. He knew what he
was doing as a designer since he earned his living in the big ship
design/building business. His best-known book is Boatbuilding In Your
Own Backyard, published 50 years ago or so, and somewhat out of date.
It's about building, though, and not design.
I think that Rabl may have published a design book, but if so, I've
never seen it, nor do I know the title. It would be a great thing to find.
Peter
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
> Isn't there supposed to be a pertinent book by a guy named Rabl?The late Sam Rabl was one of those enthusiasts who drew a huge
following due to being a prolific and amusing writer. He knew what he
was doing as a designer since he earned his living in the big ship
design/building business. His best-known book is Boatbuilding In Your
Own Backyard, published 50 years ago or so, and somewhat out of date.
It's about building, though, and not design.
I think that Rabl may have published a design book, but if so, I've
never seen it, nor do I know the title. It would be a great thing to find.
Peter
Isn't there supposed to be a pertinent book by a guy named Rabl? Of
course, Michalak covers it too, in his "Secret...." book.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Wetherill"
<wetherillc@...> wrote:
course, Michalak covers it too, in his "Secret...." book.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Wetherill"
<wetherillc@...> wrote:
>
> Over the years, I have seen various oblique references to the method
> necessary to properly design a boat fo plywood construction. The jist
> is that one should use the surface of a cone in order for the plywood
> to lay properly. Does anyone know of a book that describes the
> drafting technique to accomplish this?
>
> Chris
>
Not just newsletters, Jim has a neat book called "The Secret Guide to Plywood Boat Design"
that explains it all in laymans terms suitable for simple designs. My edition ©1997
includes complete plans for a 14' sailing sneakbox called Bookie. Ask him about it!
that explains it all in laymans terms suitable for simple designs. My edition ©1997
includes complete plans for a 14' sailing sneakbox called Bookie. Ask him about it!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, William Page <billybouy2@...> wrote:
>
> Chris:
>
> I'd check out Jim Michalak's newletters on the internet - from 11/15/04 to 10/15/05
he did a 10 part series on drawing boat plans that I think probably covers much of what
you are looking for. I haven't actually studied the material or put it to use, just saved it for
future reference, along with a bunch of other of Michalak's stuff, which goes into the
design process in more accessible detail than any other source this dilettante has found to
date:http://homepages.cpci.net/~michalak/
>
> Ciao for Niao,
> Bill in MN
>
> Christopher Wetherill <wetherillc@...> wrote:
> Over the years, I have seen various oblique references to the method
> necessary to properly design a boat fo plywood construction. The jist
> is that one should use the surface of a cone in order for the plywood
> to lay properly. Does anyone know of a book that describes the
> drafting technique to accomplish this?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282
-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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>bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Chris:
I'd check out Jim Michalak's newletters on the internet - from 11/15/04 to 10/15/05 he did a 10 part series on drawing boat plans that I think probably covers much of what you are looking for. I haven't actually studied the material or put it to use, just saved it for future reference, along with a bunch of other of Michalak's stuff, which goes into the design process in more accessible detail than any other source this dilettante has found to date:http://homepages.cpci.net/~michalak/
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
Christopher Wetherill <wetherillc@...> wrote:
Over the years, I have seen various oblique references to the method
necessary to properly design a boat fo plywood construction. The jist
is that one should use the surface of a cone in order for the plywood
to lay properly. Does anyone know of a book that describes the
drafting technique to accomplish this?
Chris
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
Boating magazine Boating safety Alaska outdoors Great outdoors
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Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'd check out Jim Michalak's newletters on the internet - from 11/15/04 to 10/15/05 he did a 10 part series on drawing boat plans that I think probably covers much of what you are looking for. I haven't actually studied the material or put it to use, just saved it for future reference, along with a bunch of other of Michalak's stuff, which goes into the design process in more accessible detail than any other source this dilettante has found to date:http://homepages.cpci.net/~michalak/
Ciao for Niao,
Bill in MN
Christopher Wetherill <wetherillc@...> wrote:
Over the years, I have seen various oblique references to the method
necessary to properly design a boat fo plywood construction. The jist
is that one should use the surface of a cone in order for the plywood
to lay properly. Does anyone know of a book that describes the
drafting technique to accomplish this?
Chris
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
SPONSORED LINKS
Boating magazine Boating safety Alaska outdoors Great outdoors
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Visit your group "bolger" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Chris,
A designer named BAREND MIGCHELSEN has written two or more small books on
this topic. They are listed at very modest prices in the Duckworks
Magazine.
They explain things very well , although I found that I had to read, and
re-read them for the ideas to sink in.
Alvan.
A designer named BAREND MIGCHELSEN has written two or more small books on
this topic. They are listed at very modest prices in the Duckworks
Magazine.
They explain things very well , although I found that I had to read, and
re-read them for the ideas to sink in.
Alvan.
> Over the years, I have seen various oblique references to the methodThe design books by John Teale deal with it, though I must say the
> necessary to properly design a boat fo plywood construction. The jist
> is that one should use the surface of a cone in order for the plywood
> to lay properly. Does anyone know of a book that describes the
> drafting technique to accomplish this?
treatment is pretty brief.
Over the years, I have seen various oblique references to the method
necessary to properly design a boat fo plywood construction. The jist
is that one should use the surface of a cone in order for the plywood
to lay properly. Does anyone know of a book that describes the
drafting technique to accomplish this?
Chris
necessary to properly design a boat fo plywood construction. The jist
is that one should use the surface of a cone in order for the plywood
to lay properly. Does anyone know of a book that describes the
drafting technique to accomplish this?
Chris