Re: long term plywood test
I have many scrap peices of ply laying out by the fence some for 7-8
years and the only one that is no worse for wear is the MDO two sided.
It is still togather and the only sings on it are sun bleaching and
water stains but it is solid with no paint ever. The other types of ply
are falling apart and rotting away in the same time. That is why I am
useing MDO it pased the test in the real world.
Jon
years and the only one that is no worse for wear is the MDO two sided.
It is still togather and the only sings on it are sun bleaching and
water stains but it is solid with no paint ever. The other types of ply
are falling apart and rotting away in the same time. That is why I am
useing MDO it pased the test in the real world.
Jon
There are plans for a PVC boat dolly in the "files" section of the
Sunfish group here on Yahoo (Sunfish Sailors?). I think it is sized
for a Laser, but could be adapted.
Rob
Sunfish group here on Yahoo (Sunfish Sailors?). I think it is sized
for a Laser, but could be adapted.
Rob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
> <jon@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi David,
> > I made something similar for Long Dory using a 4x4 tongue, but
it's
> too
> > long and heavy, so I'm planning to shorten and lighten it.
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I came across an amateur boating enthusiast's web site awhile ago
that
> had plans for a wheeled boat launcher constructed using PVC pipe
and
> fittings for the framing. Can't find the URL at the moment but will
> keep searching as I want to make one for myself. Seemed it might be
> what you are looking for.
>
> Nels
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
I came across an amateur boating enthusiast's web site awhile ago that
had plans for a wheeled boat launcher constructed using PVC pipe and
fittings for the framing. Can't find the URL at the moment but will
keep searching as I want to make one for myself. Seemed it might be
what you are looking for.
Nels
<jon@...> wrote:
>too
> Hi David,
> I made something similar for Long Dory using a 4x4 tongue, but it's
> long and heavy, so I'm planning to shorten and lighten it.Hi guys,
I came across an amateur boating enthusiast's web site awhile ago that
had plans for a wheeled boat launcher constructed using PVC pipe and
fittings for the framing. Can't find the URL at the moment but will
keep searching as I want to make one for myself. Seemed it might be
what you are looking for.
Nels
Hi David,
long and heavy, so I'm planning to shorten and lighten it.
Nevertheless, it works. I also found Big Tortoise difficult to carry
more than a few yards, partly due to the straight sheer, which puts all
the weight off-center when on its side.
Thanks for the info on this and the Diablo problems. My plan to store
Diablo indoors or at least covered should help things, it seems.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> The beam of Pointy Skiff makes carrying it difficult. I triedcarrier
> wheels...but met a dismal failure. I am now working on a skiff
> that is to be built of old bicycle wheels and 2X4's.I made something similar for Long Dory using a 4x4 tongue, but it's too
long and heavy, so I'm planning to shorten and lighten it.
Nevertheless, it works. I also found Big Tortoise difficult to carry
more than a few yards, partly due to the straight sheer, which puts all
the weight off-center when on its side.
Thanks for the info on this and the Diablo problems. My plan to store
Diablo indoors or at least covered should help things, it seems.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
The beam of Pointy Skiff makes carrying it difficult. I tried
wheels...but met a dismal failure. I am now working on a skiff carrier
that is to be built of old bicycle wheels and 2X4's.
David
wheels...but met a dismal failure. I am now working on a skiff carrier
that is to be built of old bicycle wheels and 2X4's.
David
John -
I built my Diablo using ac ply and covered the exterior with dynel
cloth set in WEST epoxy.
The boat has lived most of it's life in a salt marsh collection
rainwater and such. Eventually the transom rotted out and needed
replacing. This was due to water seeping in around a drain plug I
had installed in the transom (not on the plans). I now know that I
should overdrill the hole, fill with putty, then install the drain
plug.
The aft portion of the bottom also developed similar issues. The
problem appears to be that the fiberglass cloth is not as porous as
the paint on the opposite side and therefore retains water in the
plywood that causes eventual delamination and invites rot like a
magnet.
I have used the wood eraser (7" disc grinder) and removed the plywood
right down to the glass cloth and then done a lamination of 7 layers
of 6 oz cloth leveled off with fairing compound. The boat should
last another couple of years.
If I stored the boat upside down, I would not have had the issue.
David
I built my Diablo using ac ply and covered the exterior with dynel
cloth set in WEST epoxy.
The boat has lived most of it's life in a salt marsh collection
rainwater and such. Eventually the transom rotted out and needed
replacing. This was due to water seeping in around a drain plug I
had installed in the transom (not on the plans). I now know that I
should overdrill the hole, fill with putty, then install the drain
plug.
The aft portion of the bottom also developed similar issues. The
problem appears to be that the fiberglass cloth is not as porous as
the paint on the opposite side and therefore retains water in the
plywood that causes eventual delamination and invites rot like a
magnet.
I have used the wood eraser (7" disc grinder) and removed the plywood
right down to the glass cloth and then done a lamination of 7 layers
of 6 oz cloth leveled off with fairing compound. The boat should
last another couple of years.
If I stored the boat upside down, I would not have had the issue.
David
Hello again, David,
so yards from the back of a pickup to the water? Some of the mountain
lakes I'd like to fish at don't allow trailers and don't have ramps -
you need to hand launch, sometimes over rocks. Thanks,
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> Model of Birdwatcher II is coming along with the actual building atHow light is a Pointy Skiff? Can it be carried by one man a dozen or
> least a year away. June Bug may be this summer's project as we need
> a slightly bigger rowboat than Pointy Skiff.
so yards from the back of a pickup to the water? Some of the mountain
lakes I'd like to fish at don't allow trailers and don't have ramps -
you need to hand launch, sometimes over rocks. Thanks,
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
Hi David,
version is going to be launched in two weeks, so I've got a little time
to consider additional attention to possible trouble spots before then.
I used AC throughout, epoxy/wood flour fillets and tape for the chines,
sheathed the outside in 10 oz. fiberglass cloth set in epoxy, epoxy
coated the interior, and used Doug fir for all the solid wood parts.
The whole thing then got two coats of Kilz II primer and three coats of
latex house paint. Mine will likely be stored inside to avoid having
to and remove the motor every time I use it. Based on your experience,
do you see any potential problems I should be wary of?
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> I am wondering the same. My first boat I built was a Nymph skiff.Can you elaborate on the problems you encountered with Diablo? My
> It was built with AC ply, covered with cloth in polyester resin,
> polyester resin coating inside and then painted. That boat is still
> going strong 25 years later! (I don't think it is subject to the
> abuse and neglect I put Diablo through.) That boat has polyester
> chines and putty. Cheap. albeit a little heavy. Epoxy may be way
> over rated. I know if I had put a coating of polyester on Diablo I
> would not have had half the problems with rot that I have
> encountered. Mahogany would have worked much better for the rails and
> chines.
version is going to be launched in two weeks, so I've got a little time
to consider additional attention to possible trouble spots before then.
I used AC throughout, epoxy/wood flour fillets and tape for the chines,
sheathed the outside in 10 oz. fiberglass cloth set in epoxy, epoxy
coated the interior, and used Doug fir for all the solid wood parts.
The whole thing then got two coats of Kilz II primer and three coats of
latex house paint. Mine will likely be stored inside to avoid having
to and remove the motor every time I use it. Based on your experience,
do you see any potential problems I should be wary of?
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
Fir is pretty resistant to rot -- certainly as resistant as the fir
sheathing on AC plywood, I would think. Yellow pine, too. On the other
hand, the spruce that is the most common wood sold as SPF (at least here
in central North Carolina) is very prone to rot. It's like it teleports
rot spores from another universe into itself.
Patrick
Nels wrote:
sheathing on AC plywood, I would think. Yellow pine, too. On the other
hand, the spruce that is the most common wood sold as SPF (at least here
in central North Carolina) is very prone to rot. It's like it teleports
rot spores from another universe into itself.
Patrick
Nels wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
>> Here is some unscientific data based upon actual useage of 1/2" AC
>> exterior grade plywood in the sandbox built 20 years ago.
>>
>> The bottom of the sandbox was painted and put in contact with the
>> soil, and filled with sand over 20 years ago in termite infested
>> territory. The chines (yes, the sandbox was actually an 8'
>> flatbottom rowboat looking thing) were of spf lumber and had
>>
> rotted
>
>> away and the termites had their fill of the chine + the plywood
>> immediately adjacent to the chine. However, the middle section of
>> the ply was pristine and could have been used for another project
>>
> if
>
>> I so chose. Not a scratch!
>>
>> I don't know what data people could take from this other than,
>>
> keep
>
>> those edges painted, use good rot resistant wood for the chine
>>
> logs
>
>> and shear clamps, and maybe don't overdo the fiberglass which in
>>
> some
>
>> cases may only serve to hold the water in rather than let the area
>> drain and dry (as in my Diablo).
>>
>> Model of Birdwatcher II is coming along with the actual building
>>
> at
>
>> least a year away. June Bug may be this summer's project as we
>>
> need
>
>> a slightly bigger rowboat than Pointy Skiff.
>>
>> Happy building,
>> David Jost
>>
>>
>
> Very interesting! Some comments:
>
> I wonder what is the preferable rot-resistant wood for chines and
> stringers? How does mahogany, or the tropical variants fare in that
> regard?
>
> I wonder if epoxy encapsulation and two-part paints are then
> worthwhile? Or do they not really rot-proof the chines etc.?
>
> Or are expoxy putty and fiberglas joints the way to go?
>
> Also what material are you using for your model David? And are you
> building BWII at the plan scale?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
As I recall I pointed out that the way he used the Epoxy was not in the
way purscribed for use in boat building and he didn't do tests in the
real world or long term so I dismised his resalts for what has proven
to work in boat building.
Jon
way purscribed for use in boat building and he didn't do tests in the
real world or long term so I dismised his resalts for what has proven
to work in boat building.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, echo172@... wrote:
>
> I recall reading test results written by Dave Carnell. If I am
accurate he mentioned epoxy allows water in. His suggestion was latex
paint. I don't have his url but a search should find him.
>
> > I wonder what is the preferable rot-resistant wood for chines and
> > stringers? How does mahogany, or the tropical variants fare in that
> > regard?
> >
> > I wonder if epoxy encapsulation and two-part paints are then
> > worthwhile? Or do they not really rot-proof the chines etc.?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I would suggest that you refer to the Forest Service Wood Handbook.
You will find that almost all (if not all) of the plywoods available
for boat building have litte or no rot resistance. Lumber with rot
resistence is pretty much limited. Notwithstanding Dave Carnell's
rants about epoxy encapsulation it is probably the best strategy where
wood is in water for extended periods of time. Glass sheathing with
epoxy coatings are for all practical purposes waterproof. Latex paint
is fine but you will not have protection with latex paint over raw
wood (again, for wood subjected to prolonged submersion). Remember,
for rot you need the right temperature, moisture content and the
presence of the fungus.
This is a theological issue on boat building sites. I don't suggest
you buy WEST system products but they have done the most realistic
tests to date in my opinion. Here is Dave Carnell's website.
http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/davecarnell/
Bob Chamberland
You will find that almost all (if not all) of the plywoods available
for boat building have litte or no rot resistance. Lumber with rot
resistence is pretty much limited. Notwithstanding Dave Carnell's
rants about epoxy encapsulation it is probably the best strategy where
wood is in water for extended periods of time. Glass sheathing with
epoxy coatings are for all practical purposes waterproof. Latex paint
is fine but you will not have protection with latex paint over raw
wood (again, for wood subjected to prolonged submersion). Remember,
for rot you need the right temperature, moisture content and the
presence of the fungus.
This is a theological issue on boat building sites. I don't suggest
you buy WEST system products but they have done the most realistic
tests to date in my opinion. Here is Dave Carnell's website.
http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/davecarnell/
Bob Chamberland
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, echo172@... wrote:
>
> I recall reading test results written by Dave Carnell. If I am
accurate he mentioned epoxy allows water in. His suggestion was latex
paint. I don't have his url but a search should find him.
>
> > I wonder what is the preferable rot-resistant wood for chines and
> > stringers? How does mahogany, or the tropical variants fare in that
> > regard?
> >
> > I wonder if epoxy encapsulation and two-part paints are then
> > worthwhile? Or do they not really rot-proof the chines etc.?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I recall reading test results written by Dave Carnell. If I am accurate he mentioned epoxy allows water in. His suggestion was latex paint. I don't have his url but a search should find him.
> I wonder what is the preferable rot-resistant wood for chines and[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> stringers? How does mahogany, or the tropical variants fare in that
> regard?
>
> I wonder if epoxy encapsulation and two-part paints are then
> worthwhile? Or do they not really rot-proof the chines etc.?
> I wonder what is the preferable rot-resistant wood for chines andNels,
> stringers? How does mahogany, or the tropical variants fare in that
> regard?
>
> I wonder if epoxy encapsulation and two-part paints are then
> worthwhile? Or do they not really rot-proof the chines etc.?
>
> Or are expoxy putty and fiberglas joints the way to go?
>
> Also what material are you using for your model David? And are you
> building BWII at the plan scale?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nels
I am wondering the same. My first boat I built was a Nymph skiff.
It was built with AC ply, covered with cloth in polyester resin,
polyester resin coating inside and then painted. That boat is still
going strong 25 years later! (I don't think it is subject to the
abuse and neglect I put Diablo through.) That boat has polyester
chines and putty. Cheap. albeit a little heavy. Epoxy may be way
over rated. I know if I had put a coating of polyester on Diablo I
would not have had half the problems with rot that I have
encountered. Mahogany would have worked much better for the rails and
chines.
ON the BWII,
I am using bass wood for the model. It is a 24" model at 1" to a
foot.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
I wonder what is the preferable rot-resistant wood for chines and
stringers? How does mahogany, or the tropical variants fare in that
regard?
I wonder if epoxy encapsulation and two-part paints are then
worthwhile? Or do they not really rot-proof the chines etc.?
Or are expoxy putty and fiberglas joints the way to go?
Also what material are you using for your model David? And are you
building BWII at the plan scale?
Thanks,
Nels
>rotted
> Here is some unscientific data based upon actual useage of 1/2" AC
> exterior grade plywood in the sandbox built 20 years ago.
>
> The bottom of the sandbox was painted and put in contact with the
> soil, and filled with sand over 20 years ago in termite infested
> territory. The chines (yes, the sandbox was actually an 8'
> flatbottom rowboat looking thing) were of spf lumber and had
> away and the termites had their fill of the chine + the plywoodif
> immediately adjacent to the chine. However, the middle section of
> the ply was pristine and could have been used for another project
> I so chose. Not a scratch!keep
>
> I don't know what data people could take from this other than,
> those edges painted, use good rot resistant wood for the chinelogs
> and shear clamps, and maybe don't overdo the fiberglass which insome
> cases may only serve to hold the water in rather than let the areaat
> drain and dry (as in my Diablo).
>
> Model of Birdwatcher II is coming along with the actual building
> least a year away. June Bug may be this summer's project as weneed
> a slightly bigger rowboat than Pointy Skiff.Very interesting! Some comments:
>
> Happy building,
> David Jost
>
I wonder what is the preferable rot-resistant wood for chines and
stringers? How does mahogany, or the tropical variants fare in that
regard?
I wonder if epoxy encapsulation and two-part paints are then
worthwhile? Or do they not really rot-proof the chines etc.?
Or are expoxy putty and fiberglas joints the way to go?
Also what material are you using for your model David? And are you
building BWII at the plan scale?
Thanks,
Nels
Here is some unscientific data based upon actual useage of 1/2" AC
exterior grade plywood in the sandbox built 20 years ago.
The bottom of the sandbox was painted and put in contact with the
soil, and filled with sand over 20 years ago in termite infested
territory. The chines (yes, the sandbox was actually an 8'
flatbottom rowboat looking thing) were of spf lumber and had rotted
away and the termites had their fill of the chine + the plywood
immediately adjacent to the chine. However, the middle section of
the ply was pristine and could have been used for another project if
I so chose. Not a scratch!
I don't know what data people could take from this other than, keep
those edges painted, use good rot resistant wood for the chine logs
and shear clamps, and maybe don't overdo the fiberglass which in some
cases may only serve to hold the water in rather than let the area
drain and dry (as in my Diablo).
Model of Birdwatcher II is coming along with the actual building at
least a year away. June Bug may be this summer's project as we need
a slightly bigger rowboat than Pointy Skiff.
Happy building,
David Jost
exterior grade plywood in the sandbox built 20 years ago.
The bottom of the sandbox was painted and put in contact with the
soil, and filled with sand over 20 years ago in termite infested
territory. The chines (yes, the sandbox was actually an 8'
flatbottom rowboat looking thing) were of spf lumber and had rotted
away and the termites had their fill of the chine + the plywood
immediately adjacent to the chine. However, the middle section of
the ply was pristine and could have been used for another project if
I so chose. Not a scratch!
I don't know what data people could take from this other than, keep
those edges painted, use good rot resistant wood for the chine logs
and shear clamps, and maybe don't overdo the fiberglass which in some
cases may only serve to hold the water in rather than let the area
drain and dry (as in my Diablo).
Model of Birdwatcher II is coming along with the actual building at
least a year away. June Bug may be this summer's project as we need
a slightly bigger rowboat than Pointy Skiff.
Happy building,
David Jost