Re: BW-Amherst-WJD
Hello Greg
I get the message about a motor on AG.
Also had similar thoughts on interior of WDJ but will check
it out again.
Thanks - Darrell
a boat that can be used with a motor I think the intergrity of the
design may be compromised to some extent. My point there is that if
this is the case, it may be better to go for the WDJ design, from the
outset, rather than trying to adapt AG.
The article that I mentioned was in Wooden Boat No. 157 of Dec 2000. I
have recently seen a video of a WDJ and there doesn't seem to be a
sense of a clear and open interior ; it looks quite broken up with
bulkheads which detracts from the Birdwatcher concept, I feel. But
that is a rather superficial opinion based solely on a video and the
drawings ; I guess you would need to see the real thing before being
able to make a decision about that. But on paper, the AG doesn't seem
to suffer from those problems.
I think the AG would be a fine boat for protected waters with a large
crew of around 8-10 people, and in that context I don't think
stability would be an issue, at all.
No, AG seems a great boat to me, it appears to have real integrity.
Greg F
I get the message about a motor on AG.
Also had similar thoughts on interior of WDJ but will check
it out again.
Thanks - Darrell
> Actually, I am very keen on AG, but I think that boat is at it'sbest as a group boat, just as it was designed ; when people see it as
a boat that can be used with a motor I think the intergrity of the
design may be compromised to some extent. My point there is that if
this is the case, it may be better to go for the WDJ design, from the
outset, rather than trying to adapt AG.
The article that I mentioned was in Wooden Boat No. 157 of Dec 2000. I
have recently seen a video of a WDJ and there doesn't seem to be a
sense of a clear and open interior ; it looks quite broken up with
bulkheads which detracts from the Birdwatcher concept, I feel. But
that is a rather superficial opinion based solely on a video and the
drawings ; I guess you would need to see the real thing before being
able to make a decision about that. But on paper, the AG doesn't seem
to suffer from those problems.
I think the AG would be a fine boat for protected waters with a large
crew of around 8-10 people, and in that context I don't think
stability would be an issue, at all.
No, AG seems a great boat to me, it appears to have real integrity.
Greg F
Hello Darrell,
Actually, I am very keen on AG, but I think that boat is at it's best
as a group boat, just as it was designed ; when people see it as a
boat that can be used with a motor I think the intergrity of the
design may be compromised to some extent. My point there is that if
this is the case, it may be better to go for the WDJ design, from the
outset, rather than trying to adapt AG.
The article that I mentioned was in Wooden Boat No. 157 of Dec 2000. I
have recently seen a video of a WDJ and there doesn't seem to be a
sense of a clear and open interior ; it looks quite broken up with
bulkheads which detracts from the Birdwatcher concept, I feel. But
that is a rather superficial opinion based solely on a video and the
drawings ; I guess you would need to see the real thing before being
able to make a decision about that. But on paper, the AG doesn't seem
to suffer from those problems.
I think the AG would be a fine boat for protected waters with a large
crew of around 8-10 people, and in that context I don't think
stability would be an issue, at all.
No, AG seems a great boat to me, it appears to have real integrity.
Greg F
Actually, I am very keen on AG, but I think that boat is at it's best
as a group boat, just as it was designed ; when people see it as a
boat that can be used with a motor I think the intergrity of the
design may be compromised to some extent. My point there is that if
this is the case, it may be better to go for the WDJ design, from the
outset, rather than trying to adapt AG.
The article that I mentioned was in Wooden Boat No. 157 of Dec 2000. I
have recently seen a video of a WDJ and there doesn't seem to be a
sense of a clear and open interior ; it looks quite broken up with
bulkheads which detracts from the Birdwatcher concept, I feel. But
that is a rather superficial opinion based solely on a video and the
drawings ; I guess you would need to see the real thing before being
able to make a decision about that. But on paper, the AG doesn't seem
to suffer from those problems.
I think the AG would be a fine boat for protected waters with a large
crew of around 8-10 people, and in that context I don't think
stability would be an issue, at all.
No, AG seems a great boat to me, it appears to have real integrity.
Greg F
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dproasit" <knic0014@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Greg
> Don't worry, if you're half way thru building you probably know a lot
> more than most. Particularly "HOW TO MAKE A DECISION."
> Why are you not keen on the AG? - Is it the lack of ballast without a
> large crew? If so do you think extra fuel/water/batteries and stuff
> down low for cruising would be sufficient.
> On WJD is conventional cockpit integral or could the raised deck be
> run fully aft? What reservations?
> If you can find that article it would be great to see. Give us a yell
> as to where you are hiding it on site.
> Thank you - Darrell
>
Hello Garth
Checked out Caprice and Cormorant but at the moment am stuck on the BW
type raised decks. Especially when run from stem to stern. Been stuck
up enough insect ridden creeks and wet weather to want to avoid both,
by design, if possible.
Mentioned in previous post about extra ballast (fuel, water, batteries
and stuff down low) for longer cruising in AG. Do you reckon this
would do the job?
Thank you - Darrell
Checked out Caprice and Cormorant but at the moment am stuck on the BW
type raised decks. Especially when run from stem to stern. Been stuck
up enough insect ridden creeks and wet weather to want to avoid both,
by design, if possible.
Mentioned in previous post about extra ballast (fuel, water, batteries
and stuff down low) for longer cruising in AG. Do you reckon this
would do the job?
Thank you - Darrell
Hello Greg
Don't worry, if you're half way thru building you probably know a lot
more than most. Particularly "HOW TO MAKE A DECISION."
Why are you not keen on the AG? - Is it the lack of ballast without a
large crew? If so do you think extra fuel/water/batteries and stuff
down low for cruising would be sufficient.
On WJD is conventional cockpit integral or could the raised deck be
run fully aft? What reservations?
If you can find that article it would be great to see. Give us a yell
as to where you are hiding it on site.
Thank you - Darrell
Don't worry, if you're half way thru building you probably know a lot
more than most. Particularly "HOW TO MAKE A DECISION."
Why are you not keen on the AG? - Is it the lack of ballast without a
large crew? If so do you think extra fuel/water/batteries and stuff
down low for cruising would be sufficient.
On WJD is conventional cockpit integral or could the raised deck be
run fully aft? What reservations?
If you can find that article it would be great to see. Give us a yell
as to where you are hiding it on site.
Thank you - Darrell
Thanks Graham
Yeah there's heaps of stuff on BW we've found onsite. Enough to get a
real good understanding. There's a reasonable bit of info on WJD/WW
but I have'nt been able to find anything on loading capacity. Very
little info on AG.
As for Top End, timing would be important. I lived there for 3 years
and really developed an appreciation for a good breeze. I think that
when it came to sprawling there's a lot of vacant coastline available
up there and from the comments and readings it aseems that there is
plenty of air circulation on BW types whilst sailing.
Still looking for comparisons/% between the three with regard to cost,
complexity, build time.
Have found a BW about 4 hours drive from here which am trying to
organize a look at. Bound to be a decider.
Thanks again - Darrell
Yeah there's heaps of stuff on BW we've found onsite. Enough to get a
real good understanding. There's a reasonable bit of info on WJD/WW
but I have'nt been able to find anything on loading capacity. Very
little info on AG.
As for Top End, timing would be important. I lived there for 3 years
and really developed an appreciation for a good breeze. I think that
when it came to sprawling there's a lot of vacant coastline available
up there and from the comments and readings it aseems that there is
plenty of air circulation on BW types whilst sailing.
Still looking for comparisons/% between the three with regard to cost,
complexity, build time.
Have found a BW about 4 hours drive from here which am trying to
organize a look at. Bound to be a decider.
Thanks again - Darrell
Also take a gander at Michalak's Caprice and Cormorant. I like them
for their water ballast, where the Amherst Galley, I think I recall,
has none -- it is designed to use crew weight inside as ballast. That
only works to a point -- say, 50 degrees of roll, whereupon the crew
slides downhill, loses all value as ballast, and makes the former
"side" the new "bottom."
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/sail.htm
Garth
(happy Cormorant owner)
for their water ballast, where the Amherst Galley, I think I recall,
has none -- it is designed to use crew weight inside as ballast. That
only works to a point -- say, 50 degrees of roll, whereupon the crew
slides downhill, loses all value as ballast, and makes the former
"side" the new "bottom."
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/sail.htm
Garth
(happy Cormorant owner)
Hello Darrell,
Well I didn't reply because I felt that I didn't know enough about
the subject, even though I am a good way through building a
Birdwatcher spin-off - a Michalak Scram Pram. There were quite a few
questions in your post ; many of which I certainly just can't
comment on because I just don't know. But that may explain why
there wasn't too much a response from Group members??
I am, however, very keen on the Amherst Galley, but as a larger
group boat, rather than as a camping boat for a smaller family group
(or whatever). AG would not seem to be the way to go for that use
but the WDJ would. I have a reservation about that boat - the
conventional cockpit, but in the light of Graeme's comments I guess
WDJ would be the best of both worlds!
WDJ is still a very interesting boat with water ballast and a motor
well - neither of which are on AG and therefore, why not go for that
with no need to modify the boat for your purposes? By the way, there
is an article in a Wooden Boat by Mr Bolger about water ballast and
WDJ and St Valery (another great boat!) ; now that article is very
imformative and interesting (can't remember the issue No - I have it
at work so will add that when I get back to that office on Friday.
I guess WW is a bigger boat but WDJ maybe a much better overall
design? Mr Bolger seems to feel that it represents his latest
thinking on the type - well, later that WW, anyway.
Greg F
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
Well I didn't reply because I felt that I didn't know enough about
the subject, even though I am a good way through building a
Birdwatcher spin-off - a Michalak Scram Pram. There were quite a few
questions in your post ; many of which I certainly just can't
comment on because I just don't know. But that may explain why
there wasn't too much a response from Group members??
I am, however, very keen on the Amherst Galley, but as a larger
group boat, rather than as a camping boat for a smaller family group
(or whatever). AG would not seem to be the way to go for that use
but the WDJ would. I have a reservation about that boat - the
conventional cockpit, but in the light of Graeme's comments I guess
WDJ would be the best of both worlds!
WDJ is still a very interesting boat with water ballast and a motor
well - neither of which are on AG and therefore, why not go for that
with no need to modify the boat for your purposes? By the way, there
is an article in a Wooden Boat by Mr Bolger about water ballast and
WDJ and St Valery (another great boat!) ; now that article is very
imformative and interesting (can't remember the issue No - I have it
at work so will add that when I get back to that office on Friday.
I guess WW is a bigger boat but WDJ maybe a much better overall
design? Mr Bolger seems to feel that it represents his latest
thinking on the type - well, later that WW, anyway.
Greg F
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>or
> Hi Darrell,
>
> here's my 2 cents:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dproasit" <knic0014@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all
> > We're after some thoughts from those who are into the type (BW)
> arefinished
> > handy at interpreting the cartoons etc.
> > Things like relative - cost, build complexity, build time,
> > weight, and loading capacity for the above.stints
>
> Some of the Birdwatcher builders, past and present have offered
> breakdowns and logs of their experience. Have you seen these?
>
>
> > Or should we attack the problem from the intended use end?
> > -[Trailerable sailing camp cruiser for a couple for 7-10 day
> > with occasional kids(grand) and dog for Protected watersgenerally
> > East coast Aust. even top end and gulf, bay, estuary, river .Camp
> inproof
> > while travelling, outboard to handlle strong currents, insect
> > for up the creek]-do.
>
> For protected waters the BW1&2, WJD, AG, and WW etc. would all
> Probably, for your intended cruises the BW would suffice in size.breeze
> However, you mention the top end and I'm not conviced that BW type
> cabins are the most comfortable for the humid tropics. Sprawling
> under a good sun-shade on an open deck exposed to any cooling
> may be more comfortable. Another top end consideration is the
> temptation provided by all the coral reefs and islands to venture
> offshore and coastwise . Most times a BW would be safe enough, or
> would it? Bolger wrote he would not be much bothered if he found
> himself way offshore in a Martha Jane. Long Micro also might suit.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme
>
Hi Darrell,
here's my 2 cents:
here's my 2 cents:
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dproasit" <knic0014@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all
> We're after some thoughts from those who are into the type (BW) or
are
> handy at interpreting the cartoons etc.
> Things like relative - cost, build complexity, build time, finished
> weight, and loading capacity for the above.
Some of the Birdwatcher builders, past and present have offered
breakdowns and logs of their experience. Have you seen these?
> Or should we attack the problem from the intended use end?
> -[Trailerable sailing camp cruiser for a couple for 7-10 day stints
> with occasional kids(grand) and dog for Protected waters generally
> East coast Aust. even top end and gulf, bay, estuary, river . Camp
in
> while travelling, outboard to handlle strong currents, insect proof
> for up the creek]-
For protected waters the BW1&2, WJD, AG, and WW etc. would all do.
Probably, for your intended cruises the BW would suffice in size.
However, you mention the top end and I'm not conviced that BW type
cabins are the most comfortable for the humid tropics. Sprawling
under a good sun-shade on an open deck exposed to any cooling breeze
may be more comfortable. Another top end consideration is the
temptation provided by all the coral reefs and islands to venture
offshore and coastwise . Most times a BW would be safe enough, or
would it? Bolger wrote he would not be much bothered if he found
himself way offshore in a Martha Jane. Long Micro also might suit.
Cheers
Graeme
-Thanks Phil
- May have to resort to your suggestion. I;ve posted a few times but
don't seem to get many replies from those who have been there and done
that. - Praps it's my communication style or lack thereof.
Or do I have to big note myself to gain some credibility like letting
the mob know that I've actually built a few boats (5) over the period
88 - 02 and bought a couple of others. Haven't mentioned them b/c not
Bolger, although 4 are very similiar ( 16 Ft. Pirouge, ply, epoxy, fg
with spritsails. All were just tiddlers - 13-16Ft.
The 1st was an old 60's fg ski boat found in a shed out the scrub.
Only thing left was the hull and motor. Redecked it with ply, epoxy,
fg as a cuddy cab fishing boat with split pvc pipe gunwhales fg
over.Great for nets and boarding. Pulled the motor down and found it
in better nick than most newer jobs a few months old (good steel in
them there days-1966 60hp merc) Built a single axle trailer for it
[*note - built, not got built] and used it for about 3 years before
flogging it off and replacing with tinny.
The 16 Ft Pirougues I built over a couple of years for the local louts
to use to to try and keep them occupied and off the streets for a
while with varying degrees of success. Even got them to do some
artwork on the sails and hulls before they got to sail them.
The boats now live at the local TAFE college as I do a bit of part
time teaching in ag, hort and trying to to look after the rabble that
nobody else want's to deal with.
Probably in a couple of weeks we'll take them (boats) out west 200 odd
k's and do a bit of work with one of the blackfella mobs (murris) on a
few good sized lagoons they've got. Of course they'll have to do a bit
of maintenance before they earn the right to play.
Enough of the rot. See you later
Darrell
Inbolger@yahoogroups.com,
Philip Smith <pbs@...> wrote:
- May have to resort to your suggestion. I;ve posted a few times but
don't seem to get many replies from those who have been there and done
that. - Praps it's my communication style or lack thereof.
Or do I have to big note myself to gain some credibility like letting
the mob know that I've actually built a few boats (5) over the period
88 - 02 and bought a couple of others. Haven't mentioned them b/c not
Bolger, although 4 are very similiar ( 16 Ft. Pirouge, ply, epoxy, fg
with spritsails. All were just tiddlers - 13-16Ft.
The 1st was an old 60's fg ski boat found in a shed out the scrub.
Only thing left was the hull and motor. Redecked it with ply, epoxy,
fg as a cuddy cab fishing boat with split pvc pipe gunwhales fg
over.Great for nets and boarding. Pulled the motor down and found it
in better nick than most newer jobs a few months old (good steel in
them there days-1966 60hp merc) Built a single axle trailer for it
[*note - built, not got built] and used it for about 3 years before
flogging it off and replacing with tinny.
The 16 Ft Pirougues I built over a couple of years for the local louts
to use to to try and keep them occupied and off the streets for a
while with varying degrees of success. Even got them to do some
artwork on the sails and hulls before they got to sail them.
The boats now live at the local TAFE college as I do a bit of part
time teaching in ag, hort and trying to to look after the rabble that
nobody else want's to deal with.
Probably in a couple of weeks we'll take them (boats) out west 200 odd
k's and do a bit of work with one of the blackfella mobs (murris) on a
few good sized lagoons they've got. Of course they'll have to do a bit
of maintenance before they earn the right to play.
Enough of the rot. See you later
Darrell
Inbolger@yahoogroups.com,
Philip Smith <pbs@...> wrote:
>
> The WhaleWatcher is bigger than the BirdWatcher and is
> along the same lines and functionality.
>
> Someone will be along shortly with a pointer to more
> WhaleWatcher information...
>
> In addition a short (or lengthy) note MAILED to Phil
> Bolger & Friends will result in a well considered
> reply from our hero, usually by return post the day of
> receipt.
>
> Phil Smith
>
The WhaleWatcher is bigger than the BirdWatcher and is
along the same lines and functionality.
Someone will be along shortly with a pointer to more
WhaleWatcher information...
In addition a short (or lengthy) note MAILED to Phil
Bolger & Friends will result in a well considered
reply from our hero, usually by return post the day of
receipt.
Phil Smith
-
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
along the same lines and functionality.
Someone will be along shortly with a pointer to more
WhaleWatcher information...
In addition a short (or lengthy) note MAILED to Phil
Bolger & Friends will result in a well considered
reply from our hero, usually by return post the day of
receipt.
Phil Smith
-
> We really like the BW (plenty of info on site) but__________________________________________________
> are concerned that
> it may be a whisker small. Keep in mind I'm a couple
> of metres long
> and getting older a lot more quickly of late. Found
> a reasonable bit
> of info on WJD, but didn't know Amherst existed
> until saw recent
> posts-thanks Nels- and am now leaning towards it!
> Though there's still
> plenty of room for procrastinating and changing ones
> mind.
> Thoughts, guidance, even leading us up the creek
> will be appreciated.
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Hello all
We're after some thoughts from those who are into the type (BW) or are
handy at interpreting the cartoons etc.
Things like relative - cost, build complexity, build time, finished
weight, and loading capacity for the above.
Or should we attack the problem from the intended use end?
-[Trailerable sailing camp cruiser for a couple for 7-10 day stints
with occasional kids(grand) and dog for Protected waters generally
East coast Aust. even top end and gulf, bay, estuary, river . Camp in
while travelling, outboard to handlle strong currents, insect proof
for up the creek]-
We really like the BW (plenty of info on site) but are concerned that
it may be a whisker small. Keep in mind I'm a couple of metres long
and getting older a lot more quickly of late. Found a reasonable bit
of info on WJD, but didn't know Amherst existed until saw recent
posts-thanks Nels- and am now leaning towards it! Though there's still
plenty of room for procrastinating and changing ones mind.
Thoughts, guidance, even leading us up the creek will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance - Darrell
We're after some thoughts from those who are into the type (BW) or are
handy at interpreting the cartoons etc.
Things like relative - cost, build complexity, build time, finished
weight, and loading capacity for the above.
Or should we attack the problem from the intended use end?
-[Trailerable sailing camp cruiser for a couple for 7-10 day stints
with occasional kids(grand) and dog for Protected waters generally
East coast Aust. even top end and gulf, bay, estuary, river . Camp in
while travelling, outboard to handlle strong currents, insect proof
for up the creek]-
We really like the BW (plenty of info on site) but are concerned that
it may be a whisker small. Keep in mind I'm a couple of metres long
and getting older a lot more quickly of late. Found a reasonable bit
of info on WJD, but didn't know Amherst existed until saw recent
posts-thanks Nels- and am now leaning towards it! Though there's still
plenty of room for procrastinating and changing ones mind.
Thoughts, guidance, even leading us up the creek will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance - Darrell