Re: cost of boatbuilding

gravediggerjames:

you are a troll.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)
troll. troll. troll.
please go away.

bhmildy

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gravedigger20032003"
<gravediggerjames@...> wrote:

>
> Bolger Friend,
> Let me point out that my post was not addressed to anyone in
> particular, nor to you fine sir specifically. It's a general post.
> Indeed, to each his own.
> However, let me clarify a few points. First of all, "Different
> Boats" is a book by Bolger in which many plans are included.
> Secondly, some of your response seems, to say the least, a bit of a
> non-sequiter, or, perhaps, not pertinent to my post. Some of it
> might be better left to a discussion group on world economic

history.

>
>
> > Maybe the Chinese copies would exist if Kern and the Gougeon
> brothers had
> > not made the effort, but maybe not. Maybe your boat would have
> been
> > designed without PCB. Then again, maybe we'd still be driving
> Model A Fords
> > and using abaci. Oh, I forgot, Henry Ford went out on a limb too.
>
> Thirdly, I am unsure if your comments regarding the impetus to save
> a few bucks is directed at me, or at everyone wishing to save a few
> bucks. Either way, it's quite a generalization and a stretch. My
> motive for saving money has nothing to do with SUVs (my car gets
> 33mpg--its a good thing I don't go with your logic and drive a

Model

> A!). As for beer, that's not a bad idea, but what if I really save
> money to buy crack? Or what if I want to save money for my kid's
> college? What if I save money for my next boat project? In fact,
> it doesn't matter why some people want to save money and is,
> therefore, entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
> >
> > Saving a few bucks so I could drive an SUV or buy a few more

cases

> of beer
> > just doesn't seem like the thing to do.
> >
> As far as I know, there are only two or three major manufacturers

of

> epoxy. This then gets repackaged and sold by our various brand

name

> people. The epoxy I use doesn't come from China, it comes from Dow
> Chemical.
>
> Finally, lest more mistake my post for an attack or moral
> commentary, I make no judgment on people's motives or costs. I
> think it's super cool that we're building boats with our bare
> hands. That's all. Spend as much or as little as you want or need
> to. Cool. For those who may wish, for whatever reasons, to spend
> less on epoxy that works well, you might check out the suppliers I
> mentioned. Again, do as you wish, I'm impressed by everyone's
> efforts and make no judgment in any way on their methods or choices.
> Build on, Bolger boat friends...
> Tim
>

>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gravedigger20032003"

<gravediggerjames@...> wrote:

> Bolger Friend,...
>First of all, "Different Boats" is a book by Bolger in which many
>plans are included...

>>... Finally, lest more mistake my post for an attack or moral
> commentary, I make no judgment on people's motives or costs. I
> think it's super cool that we're building boats with our bare
> hands. That's all. Spend as much or as little as you want or
>need to. Cool....

I think it reasonable to conclude from the first two pararaphs of
Otter ll in "Different Boats" (Chap 13) that Mr Bolger was not put
out, and perhaps was quite pleased if people built from the plans in
his books. In part: "In my first book, Small Boats, there's a design
for a cuddy-cabin sharpie called Otter that I wish I could get back.
It's a good basic shape (many just love it); in fact, the boats
built from it go pretty well, but it's not well laid out for
efficient assembly... ... The presentation is not elegant...."

Point is; he published the plan and building key in full, knowing
some would be built from the book, (even though it's not to scale).
He's not saying that people shouldn't have built from the book, only
that later he would set the plan out differently/better.

His feelings about this building practice may have changed and would
apply to later publications; though there is the caveat on building
the Minimum Proa in BWAOM, albeit an invitation to join yet another
adventure in design. Later he made plans freely available for peero;
only asking for US$25 if one were actually built. You can't change
what you did in the past, but you can chuckle.

Cheers
Graeme -who is so enjoying Different Boats

Bolger Friend,
Let me point out that my post was not addressed to anyone in
particular, nor to you fine sir specifically. It's a general post.
Indeed, to each his own.
However, let me clarify a few points. First of all, "Different
Boats" is a book by Bolger in which many plans are included.
Secondly, some of your response seems, to say the least, a bit of a
non-sequiter, or, perhaps, not pertinent to my post. Some of it
might be better left to a discussion group on world economic history.

> Maybe the Chinese copies would exist if Kern and the Gougeon

brothers had

> not made the effort, but maybe not. Maybe your boat would have

been

> designed without PCB. Then again, maybe we'd still be driving

Model A Fords

> and using abaci. Oh, I forgot, Henry Ford went out on a limb too.

Thirdly, I am unsure if your comments regarding the impetus to save
a few bucks is directed at me, or at everyone wishing to save a few
bucks. Either way, it's quite a generalization and a stretch. My
motive for saving money has nothing to do with SUVs (my car gets
33mpg--its a good thing I don't go with your logic and drive a Model
A!). As for beer, that's not a bad idea, but what if I really save
money to buy crack? Or what if I want to save money for my kid's
college? What if I save money for my next boat project? In fact,
it doesn't matter why some people want to save money and is,
therefore, entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

>
> Saving a few bucks so I could drive an SUV or buy a few more cases

of beer

> just doesn't seem like the thing to do.
>

As far as I know, there are only two or three major manufacturers of
epoxy. This then gets repackaged and sold by our various brand name
people. The epoxy I use doesn't come from China, it comes from Dow
Chemical.

Finally, lest more mistake my post for an attack or moral
commentary, I make no judgment on people's motives or costs. I
think it's super cool that we're building boats with our bare
hands. That's all. Spend as much or as little as you want or need
to. Cool. For those who may wish, for whatever reasons, to spend
less on epoxy that works well, you might check out the suppliers I
mentioned. Again, do as you wish, I'm impressed by everyone's
efforts and make no judgment in any way on their methods or choices.
Build on, Bolger boat friends...
Tim

Each to his own. I bought my plans from Bolger, I've profited from Kern
Hendricks advice, I've been in the R&D side of things, I'm not on a budget.
(Kern is THE System Three chemist.)

Maybe the Chinese copies would exist if Kern and the Gougeon brothers had
not made the effort, but maybe not. Maybe your boat would have been
designed without PCB. Then again, maybe we'd still be driving Model A Fords
and using abaci. Oh, I forgot, Henry Ford went out on a limb too.

Saving a few bucks so I could drive an SUV or buy a few more cases of beer
just doesn't seem like the thing to do.

Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm

----- Original Message -----
From: "gravedigger20032003" <gravediggerjames@...>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 11:23 PM
Subject: [bolger] cost of boatbuilding


> Greetings Bolger Boat Group Friends,
>
> I feel compelled to comment on costs. I'm building a Tennessee. I
> got the plans from a book called "Different Boats." I made a few
> minor changes. My budget for everything--marine ply, epoxy, motor,
> hardware, paint, etc, is $5,000. So far so good, as of last total.
> I still need a trailer, though.
<snip>
> I've used System Three and also West. I see no practical advantage
> to paying more--I think it funds elaborate advertising campaigns!

Greetings Bolger Boat Group Friends,

I feel compelled to comment on costs. I'm building a Tennessee. I
got the plans from a book called "Different Boats." I made a few
minor changes. My budget for everything--marine ply, epoxy, motor,
hardware, paint, etc, is $5,000. So far so good, as of last total.
I still need a trailer, though.

I thought I would pass along some epoxy sources which I have used
and found most excellent. I've used 13 gallons of thin epoxy with
slow hardener from U.S. composites. They have a three gallon kit
for something like 104$ and a seven gallon kit for 215$. No blush,
2:1 ratio, easy to use, forgiving, predictable. Check out their
website. I recently got a three gallon kit of thick resin from an
ebay source. It works well for making glues, etc. It cost $70 for
three gallons! Search "epoxy resin" on ebay and check out Orion's
Pyramid for this epoxy. I haven't used more than 1/2 gallon of it
yet, but it works very well.

Orion's Pyramid is in Utah, shipping is reasonable, and U.S.
Composites is in Florida, I think. So, depending upon where you
might happen to live, shipping will be a factor to consider. I
personally can't see why anyone would pay twice as much for epoxy.
I've used System Three and also West. I see no practical advantage
to paying more--I think it funds elaborate advertising campaigns!

Well, we're all being taken advantage of by a Government that
debases our currency daily. Why not get the most of it while it
still has value?

I will try to post some pictures of a model I built, and later some
of the boat itself. I meant to do so last month, but my wife got
Chicken pox and some sort of complications from that--and she's got
the digital camera! If all goes well (read: money flows,work lets
up, and kids stop being so messy) I hope to have this puppy finished
by early July.
Timothy James