Re: OT: Honda "Power Thrust" Outboards - UPDATE
I had been considering between the Honda and Yamaha, in a small 4 stroke
unit, it looks like this incident will close this deal for me. I had
used the Yamaha before and had been really happy with it, so it only
took a nudge. I really hate the deception they are attempting.
William S. Davis
Assistant Director Physical Plant, Utilities
The University of Oklahoma
(405)325-3780
(405)325-5462 fax
sdavis@...<mailto:sdavis@...>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unit, it looks like this incident will close this deal for me. I had
used the Yamaha before and had been really happy with it, so it only
took a nudge. I really hate the deception they are attempting.
William S. Davis
Assistant Director Physical Plant, Utilities
The University of Oklahoma
(405)325-3780
(405)325-5462 fax
sdavis@...<mailto:sdavis@...>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Speaking of the Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke, we have one (long shaft, a bit
too long!) but! that motor is very impressive ; starts every time,
runs very smoothly and no problems at all with the trottle response.
Refined, you might say.
Shame it's a long shaft, but Yamahas have gone up in my estimation
after having this motor.
Greg F
too long!) but! that motor is very impressive ; starts every time,
runs very smoothly and no problems at all with the trottle response.
Refined, you might say.
Shame it's a long shaft, but Yamahas have gone up in my estimation
after having this motor.
Greg F
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mikeboatman@...> wrote:
>
> I had a Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke and found it very heavy. Also, the
throttle did not seem to be full variable speed. It seems to have a
slow, medium and fast. Quite often I was going flat out without
realising it, because I had the throttle set just below full but that
was full.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Waldo F. Odonahue
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:11 AM
> Subject: [bolger] Re: OT: Honda "Power Thrust" Outboards - Bolger
Recommends Yamaha
>
>
> I know Bolger recommends a Yamaha 4 stroke for the Windermere
Trawler - what does he recommend a Hondas?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
For what it's worth, my experience with my Honda four stroke has
been very good. It's a 1985 5hp model, weighs 60 pounds dry
according to the book -- on the heavy side, but only by 10 or 15
pounds, I think. More importantly, though, it is very reliable. It
starts on the first pull, even after sitting unused all winter. It
took me a little while to figure out the amount of choke to use when
it's been running and is about half-cooled, but now I can start it
first pull then too.
I had to replace the plastic (nylon?) gear wheel on the starter, but
other than that I've done nothing to it.
The newer 5 hp engines appear identical to mine, but do appear to be
a little quieter. The paint job, of course, is different.
If I was going to buy new, I would probably buy another Honda, but
the final decision would depend on the dealer as much as the engine -
- whether he's someone I want to keep dealing with. I would
definitely get a four stroke again.
Jamie Orr
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Waldo F. Odonahue" <waldofo@...>
wrote:
speed. It seems to have a slow, medium and fast. Quite >often I was
going flat out without realising it, because I had the throttle set
just >below full but that was full.
last yearâs study, Yamahaâs four-stroke outboards were awarded,
and the year before that both Yamahaâs two- and four-strokes were
ranked highest. "
been very good. It's a 1985 5hp model, weighs 60 pounds dry
according to the book -- on the heavy side, but only by 10 or 15
pounds, I think. More importantly, though, it is very reliable. It
starts on the first pull, even after sitting unused all winter. It
took me a little while to figure out the amount of choke to use when
it's been running and is about half-cooled, but now I can start it
first pull then too.
I had to replace the plastic (nylon?) gear wheel on the starter, but
other than that I've done nothing to it.
The newer 5 hp engines appear identical to mine, but do appear to be
a little quieter. The paint job, of course, is different.
If I was going to buy new, I would probably buy another Honda, but
the final decision would depend on the dealer as much as the engine -
- whether he's someone I want to keep dealing with. I would
definitely get a four stroke again.
Jamie Orr
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Waldo F. Odonahue" <waldofo@...>
wrote:
>it very heavy. Also, the throttle did not >seem to be full variable
> >I had a Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke and found
speed. It seems to have a slow, medium and fast. Quite >often I was
going flat out without realising it, because I had the throttle set
just >below full but that was full.
>âHighest in Customer Satisfaction for Two-Stroke Outboards.â In
>
>
>
> "In this latest study, J.D. Power and Associates ranked Yamaha
last yearâs study, Yamahaâs four-stroke outboards were awarded,
and the year before that both Yamahaâs two- and four-strokes were
ranked highest. "
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>I had a Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke and found it very heavy. Also, the throttle did not >seem to be full variable speed. It seems to have a slow, medium and fast. Quite >often I was going flat out without realising it, because I had the throttle set just >below full but that was full."In this latest study, J.D. Power and Associates ranked Yamaha “Highest in Customer Satisfaction for Two-Stroke Outboards.” In last year’s study, Yamaha’s four-stroke outboards were awarded, and the year before that both Yamaha’s two- and four-strokes were ranked highest. "
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I had a Yamaha 4hp 4 stroke and found it very heavy. Also, the throttle did not seem to be full variable speed. It seems to have a slow, medium and fast. Quite often I was going flat out without realising it, because I had the throttle set just below full but that was full.
Mike
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Waldo F. Odonahue
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:11 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: OT: Honda "Power Thrust" Outboards - Bolger Recommends Yamaha
I know Bolger recommends a Yamaha 4 stroke for the Windermere Trawler - what does he recommend a Hondas?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Anthony aka Magsman <magsman999@...>
wrote:
was very disappointed with it and went back to dealer several times
and got no satisfaction. His 40 year old Evinrude had more power, and
started better he said. And the Honda was not as quiet as advertised
and a lot heavier.
He said if I wanted a deal on one to see another fellow he knew who
was about ready to throw his into the lake due to it not starting.
Several other things he mentioned as well, like it has to be laid
down just so, or the oil leaks out.
Nels
wrote:
>principal.
> Excellent advice!
>
> I was considering a 2hp Honda-4 for my dinghy, but I won't now on
>I talked to a fellow awhile ago who has a Honda 9.9 4-stroke and he
> Tony.
>
was very disappointed with it and went back to dealer several times
and got no satisfaction. His 40 year old Evinrude had more power, and
started better he said. And the Honda was not as quiet as advertised
and a lot heavier.
He said if I wanted a deal on one to see another fellow he knew who
was about ready to throw his into the lake due to it not starting.
Several other things he mentioned as well, like it has to be laid
down just so, or the oil leaks out.
Nels
I know Bolger recommends a Yamaha 4 stroke for the Windermere Trawler - what does he recommend a Hondas?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Excellent advice!
I was considering a 2hp Honda-4 for my dinghy, but I won't now on principal.
Tony.
sals_dad <sals_dad@...> wrote:
Make sure that you post a full account, with clear contact information
and various keywords, in several newsgroups, not just on Yahoo. That
way, anyone googling this motor in the future will be able to read
your full account.
A few years ago, I had a terrible time with a new Honda 5hp; I believe
that only my insistence on copying all correspondence to public
newsgroups and state/federal regulators forced the company to offer me
a full refund. Make sure you let the company know that your
experience will be shared with potential customers, for years to come!
(Just look up "Honda outboard 5hp" on Google Groups, even 5 years
later, to read about my travails)
Curtis
If, with mindfulness' rope,
The elephant of the mind is tethered all around,
Our fears will come to nothing,
Every virtue drop into our hands.
---------------------------------
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was considering a 2hp Honda-4 for my dinghy, but I won't now on principal.
Tony.
sals_dad <sals_dad@...> wrote:
Make sure that you post a full account, with clear contact information
and various keywords, in several newsgroups, not just on Yahoo. That
way, anyone googling this motor in the future will be able to read
your full account.
A few years ago, I had a terrible time with a new Honda 5hp; I believe
that only my insistence on copying all correspondence to public
newsgroups and state/federal regulators forced the company to offer me
a full refund. Make sure you let the company know that your
experience will be shared with potential customers, for years to come!
(Just look up "Honda outboard 5hp" on Google Groups, even 5 years
later, to read about my travails)
Curtis
If, with mindfulness' rope,
The elephant of the mind is tethered all around,
Our fears will come to nothing,
Every virtue drop into our hands.
---------------------------------
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I like Honda, too, but they haven't always had the best track record.
Accords in the mid '90s had a major problem. The front crankshaft oil
seal wasn't well secured. It would pop loose toward the inside of the
engine without warning, dumping all the engine oil quickly and the motor
would seize ($$$). I found reports of crappy responsibility on the part
of Honda for the financial losses incurred by customers by doing web
searches. A company is only as good as its management, which changes
over time.
dbaldnz wrote:
Accords in the mid '90s had a major problem. The front crankshaft oil
seal wasn't well secured. It would pop loose toward the inside of the
engine without warning, dumping all the engine oil quickly and the motor
would seize ($$$). I found reports of crappy responsibility on the part
of Honda for the financial losses incurred by customers by doing web
searches. A company is only as good as its management, which changes
over time.
dbaldnz wrote:
>I am shocked by this story, having had a high regard of Honda, dating
>back to when their first motorcycles started appearing.
>How short-sighted they are. They will be the loser in this small episode.
>Don
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I am shocked by this story, having had a high regard of Honda, dating
back to when their first motorcycles started appearing.
How short-sighted they are. They will be the loser in this small episode.
Don
back to when their first motorcycles started appearing.
How short-sighted they are. They will be the loser in this small episode.
Don
Jon,
Put the decal on Ebay.
After all it's worth $41.
Good luck with the launch.
I intend to launch my center console,
modified Diablo this weekend.
Kevin
Put the decal on Ebay.
After all it's worth $41.
Good luck with the launch.
I intend to launch my center console,
modified Diablo this weekend.
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: adventures_in_astrophotography<mailto:jon@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: OT: Honda "Power Thrust" Outboards - UPDATE
Just off the phone with the dealer. It turns out that prior to this
incident, the dealer and his salesman genuinely thought the motor had
mechanical differences, and that the prop and decal, shipped
separately, were in addition to those differences. This helps to
explain why he was so nonplussed when I first got mad at him - he
really thought I was just upset that he didn't put the prop on for me
and didn't realize at that moment it was such a ripoff.
Once we both independently confirmed with Honda that the prop is in
fact the only difference (plus the decal), the dealer finally
understood why I'm so PO'd. I proposed that the dealer refund the
difference (with tax) between the two models, and that I simply
purchase the other prop from him. Unfortunately, Honda actually
charged him more for that model, too. Apparently the dealer then went
to bat for me and had it out with Honda, attempting to get them to
refund him the difference so he could refund it to me. Honda basically
told him TFB - "that's how we package it and price it," to paraphrase.
So, ultimately it's really Honda that's the problem here, although if
the dealer knew his product line like he should, I would not have been
ripped off in the first place.
Honda will not refund the dealer, who therefore will not refund me, but
the dealer has agreed to let me keep the low-pitch prop, meaning that
I'll have both props and only be out an additional $41.00 over what it
would have cost to buy the $80 prop separately. In other words, I have
a $41 Power Thrust decal. Still, $41 is better than $121, but I plan
to write a letter of complaint to Honda, and perhaps to others as well,
since the product is so deceptively marketed in the Honda literature.
At least the mess is over with for now, and I can get on with launching
my Diablo this weekend! Having a choice of props, I think I'll go with
the low thrust and see if it will plane me and the dog with only 10HP.
Next time, it's going to be Yamaha.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jon,
I too hate to hear of such stories about generally reputable firms. My
impression is that Honda makes a good motor, and is generally a good
company to do business with. I hope, however, that you will not accept
this BS without raisin' a ruckus. As someone said, you don't want to
overdramatize and open youself up to libel or slander claims, but I
would let Honda know that you intend to publicise this little bit of
questionable business - to the full extent possible. You have not only
your own website, but letters to the editor to a variety of boating
magazines. Duckworks might be willing to print an article detailing
your dealings with Honda & their local dealer. If you lay out for them
- in detail - exactly what your beef is, and the steps you intend to
take to expose the issue... and provide them with a firm deadline in
which to forestall such publicity, they may well decide that the small
$ value isn't worth the stink. And, for me at least, the satisfaction
of forcing them to an honorable outcome would be priceless. None of us
are perfect, and sometimes we need our feet held to the fire to remind
us of our best interests & better selves.
Good Luck,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"Advertising (n.): the science of arresting the human intelligence
long enough to extract money from it" -- anon.
******************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
I too hate to hear of such stories about generally reputable firms. My
impression is that Honda makes a good motor, and is generally a good
company to do business with. I hope, however, that you will not accept
this BS without raisin' a ruckus. As someone said, you don't want to
overdramatize and open youself up to libel or slander claims, but I
would let Honda know that you intend to publicise this little bit of
questionable business - to the full extent possible. You have not only
your own website, but letters to the editor to a variety of boating
magazines. Duckworks might be willing to print an article detailing
your dealings with Honda & their local dealer. If you lay out for them
- in detail - exactly what your beef is, and the steps you intend to
take to expose the issue... and provide them with a firm deadline in
which to forestall such publicity, they may well decide that the small
$ value isn't worth the stink. And, for me at least, the satisfaction
of forcing them to an honorable outcome would be priceless. None of us
are perfect, and sometimes we need our feet held to the fire to remind
us of our best interests & better selves.
Good Luck,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"Advertising (n.): the science of arresting the human intelligence
long enough to extract money from it" -- anon.
******************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
>
> Just off the phone with the dealer. It turns out that prior to this
> incident, the dealer and his salesman genuinely thought the motor had
> mechanical differences, and that the prop and decal, shipped
> separately, were in addition to those differences. This helps to
> explain why he was so nonplussed when I first got mad at him - he
> really thought I was just upset that he didn't put the prop on for me
> and didn't realize at that moment it was such a ripoff.
>
> Once we both independently confirmed with Honda that the prop is in
> fact the only difference (plus the decal), the dealer finally
> understood why I'm so PO'd. I proposed that the dealer refund the
> difference (with tax) between the two models, and that I simply
> purchase the other prop from him. Unfortunately, Honda actually
> charged him more for that model, too. Apparently the dealer then went
> to bat for me and had it out with Honda, attempting to get them to
> refund him the difference so he could refund it to me. Honda basically
> told him TFB - "that's how we package it and price it," to paraphrase.
> So, ultimately it's really Honda that's the problem here, although if
> the dealer knew his product line like he should, I would not have been
> ripped off in the first place.
>
> Honda will not refund the dealer, who therefore will not refund me, but
> the dealer has agreed to let me keep the low-pitch prop, meaning that
> I'll have both props and only be out an additional $41.00 over what it
> would have cost to buy the $80 prop separately. In other words, I have
> a $41 Power Thrust decal. Still, $41 is better than $121, but I plan
> to write a letter of complaint to Honda, and perhaps to others as well,
> since the product is so deceptively marketed in the Honda literature.
>
> At least the mess is over with for now, and I can get on with launching
> my Diablo this weekend! Having a choice of props, I think I'll go with
> the low thrust and see if it will plane me and the dog with only 10HP.
> Next time, it's going to be Yamaha.
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
Just off the phone with the dealer. It turns out that prior to this
incident, the dealer and his salesman genuinely thought the motor had
mechanical differences, and that the prop and decal, shipped
separately, were in addition to those differences. This helps to
explain why he was so nonplussed when I first got mad at him - he
really thought I was just upset that he didn't put the prop on for me
and didn't realize at that moment it was such a ripoff.
Once we both independently confirmed with Honda that the prop is in
fact the only difference (plus the decal), the dealer finally
understood why I'm so PO'd. I proposed that the dealer refund the
difference (with tax) between the two models, and that I simply
purchase the other prop from him. Unfortunately, Honda actually
charged him more for that model, too. Apparently the dealer then went
to bat for me and had it out with Honda, attempting to get them to
refund him the difference so he could refund it to me. Honda basically
told him TFB - "that's how we package it and price it," to paraphrase.
So, ultimately it's really Honda that's the problem here, although if
the dealer knew his product line like he should, I would not have been
ripped off in the first place.
Honda will not refund the dealer, who therefore will not refund me, but
the dealer has agreed to let me keep the low-pitch prop, meaning that
I'll have both props and only be out an additional $41.00 over what it
would have cost to buy the $80 prop separately. In other words, I have
a $41 Power Thrust decal. Still, $41 is better than $121, but I plan
to write a letter of complaint to Honda, and perhaps to others as well,
since the product is so deceptively marketed in the Honda literature.
At least the mess is over with for now, and I can get on with launching
my Diablo this weekend! Having a choice of props, I think I'll go with
the low thrust and see if it will plane me and the dog with only 10HP.
Next time, it's going to be Yamaha.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
incident, the dealer and his salesman genuinely thought the motor had
mechanical differences, and that the prop and decal, shipped
separately, were in addition to those differences. This helps to
explain why he was so nonplussed when I first got mad at him - he
really thought I was just upset that he didn't put the prop on for me
and didn't realize at that moment it was such a ripoff.
Once we both independently confirmed with Honda that the prop is in
fact the only difference (plus the decal), the dealer finally
understood why I'm so PO'd. I proposed that the dealer refund the
difference (with tax) between the two models, and that I simply
purchase the other prop from him. Unfortunately, Honda actually
charged him more for that model, too. Apparently the dealer then went
to bat for me and had it out with Honda, attempting to get them to
refund him the difference so he could refund it to me. Honda basically
told him TFB - "that's how we package it and price it," to paraphrase.
So, ultimately it's really Honda that's the problem here, although if
the dealer knew his product line like he should, I would not have been
ripped off in the first place.
Honda will not refund the dealer, who therefore will not refund me, but
the dealer has agreed to let me keep the low-pitch prop, meaning that
I'll have both props and only be out an additional $41.00 over what it
would have cost to buy the $80 prop separately. In other words, I have
a $41 Power Thrust decal. Still, $41 is better than $121, but I plan
to write a letter of complaint to Honda, and perhaps to others as well,
since the product is so deceptively marketed in the Honda literature.
At least the mess is over with for now, and I can get on with launching
my Diablo this weekend! Having a choice of props, I think I'll go with
the low thrust and see if it will plane me and the dog with only 10HP.
Next time, it's going to be Yamaha.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>This looks like classical Marketing prevarication. The Honda websiteWould the attorney general in your state classify the above as misleading and/or false advertising - when added to the prop issue?
>lists the Power Thrust features as including a "lower" ratio, but it is
>the same ratio as standard as listed on the specification sheet. When
>you look at the comparison page, it is revealed that the ratio is lower
>than the competitive motors.
If you paid with a credit card - then I would simply go to the credit card company and make a written formal complaint about the business ethics surrounding your purchase.
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This looks like classical Marketing prevarication. The Honda website
lists the Power Thrust features as including a "lower" ratio, but it is
the same ratio as standard as listed on the specification sheet. When
you look at the comparison page, it is revealed that the ratio is lower
than the competitive motors.
Chris
adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
lists the Power Thrust features as including a "lower" ratio, but it is
the same ratio as standard as listed on the specification sheet. When
you look at the comparison page, it is revealed that the ratio is lower
than the competitive motors.
Chris
adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
> Snip... The only differences between these and the standard models are a
> higher pitch prop and a decal. However, the price is considerably
> higher than the standard model ($121 in my case for the 9.9). Not
> only that, but the dealer (supposedly) installs the higher pitch prop
> and keeps the original one. For less money, you can buy the standard
> model and a separate higher pitch prop and wind up having both props
> for various purposes.
>
> Snip...
Wesley and all,
problem. The reason for my post was to alert others so they wouldn't
get the same bad deal.
Yesterday I proposed a solution to the dealer where he would refund
the difference between the standard and Power Thrust motors, and I'd
buy the Power Thrust prop from him. He's still thinking about it,
probably because he needs to see if Honda will let him do it, and
because Honda may have charged him more for the unit I ordered.
Interestingly, the salesman I worked with told me yesterday that he
thought all along that the Power Thrust model had different gearing -
when he finally realized why I'm so unhappy, he agreed that it's a
bad deal. Too bad he doesn't know his own product line.
In the meantime, my letter to Honda is just about ready to mail, as
soon as I see what actions the dealer is willing to take. The BBB
and other avenues will be evaluated after the dust settles.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> It isn't clear to me, Jon, to what extent you've tried tosatisfactorily
> settle things with Honda directly. The BBB will want to know thatparties
> you've tried everything on your own to work things out with both
> before they intervene.I've only just started trying get a positive resolution to the
problem. The reason for my post was to alert others so they wouldn't
get the same bad deal.
Yesterday I proposed a solution to the dealer where he would refund
the difference between the standard and Power Thrust motors, and I'd
buy the Power Thrust prop from him. He's still thinking about it,
probably because he needs to see if Honda will let him do it, and
because Honda may have charged him more for the unit I ordered.
Interestingly, the salesman I worked with told me yesterday that he
thought all along that the Power Thrust model had different gearing -
when he finally realized why I'm so unhappy, he agreed that it's a
bad deal. Too bad he doesn't know his own product line.
In the meantime, my letter to Honda is just about ready to mail, as
soon as I see what actions the dealer is willing to take. The BBB
and other avenues will be evaluated after the dust settles.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
He does say he already contacted Honda and got no satisfaction. I have
received great results by contacting the Better Business Bureau twice in
the past when dealing with shady characters. The second time wasn't
even exactly a request for reparations. It was simply a question. Is a
$29 late fee on a credit card account (for a payment that was
questionably late, no less) of a $4 total balance usury? I promptly
received a refund of the late fee and apology from (then) Citibank,
although the "agreement" clearly states I owed the fee. In today's
political environment of rob from the poor and give to the rich, you may
not get the same results, but were it me I would try. Personally, I
would mention both the dealer and Honda in my letter to the BBB.
It isn't clear to me, Jon, to what extent you've tried to satisfactorily
settle things with Honda directly. The BBB will want to know that
you've tried everything on your own to work things out with both parties
before they intervene.
my 2 cents only
Chester Young wrote:
received great results by contacting the Better Business Bureau twice in
the past when dealing with shady characters. The second time wasn't
even exactly a request for reparations. It was simply a question. Is a
$29 late fee on a credit card account (for a payment that was
questionably late, no less) of a $4 total balance usury? I promptly
received a refund of the late fee and apology from (then) Citibank,
although the "agreement" clearly states I owed the fee. In today's
political environment of rob from the poor and give to the rich, you may
not get the same results, but were it me I would try. Personally, I
would mention both the dealer and Honda in my letter to the BBB.
It isn't clear to me, Jon, to what extent you've tried to satisfactorily
settle things with Honda directly. The BBB will want to know that
you've tried everything on your own to work things out with both parties
before they intervene.
my 2 cents only
Chester Young wrote:
>Skip your dealer, go straight to Honda and inform them. No one wants the
>light of truth shined onto their dark side.
>
>Honda Power Equipment
>Attn: Customer Relations
>4900 Marconi Drive
>Alpharetta, GA 30005-8847
>
>Then continue to post this issue in multiple formats so that it gets out
>there. Interestingly enough, Honda does not post an email address that is
>readily accessible, I suspect that it exists, just not easy to find. I do
>not see what you are doing as blackmail in any form, your notifying
>potential buyers (of which I will not be one when and if I need to re-power)
>is a public service. If some finds an email let the rest of know, I would
>gladly forward the original comment and let Honda know that I find such
>behavior unacceptable.
>
>Caloosarat
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
>Wesley Cox
>Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 4:38 PM
>To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [bolger] OT: Honda "Power Thrust" Outboards
>
>
>
>Good advice. Be careful to only state the facts in any public forum.
>Any subjective comments could get you a libel suit.
>
>Mike Stockstill wrote:
>
>
>
>>when you go to the dealer show him your web site and let him know
>>that hundreds of people see it regularly. tell him that if he works
>>with you on this, you will make note of it, and that if he doesn't,
>>then you will make note of that too - along with his name and
>>business address. anyone who does a web search on the name of his
>>business will see the comments. put the words 'better business
>>bureau" and BBB on the web page too -- that way anyone who tries to
>>search for him and BBB will get a hit. maybe a letter to the editor
>>of MAIB and to Woodenboat and to Boatbuilder and to Practical Sailor
>>warning of the problem would get Honda motivated to correct the issue.
>>
>>just a thought.
>>
>>sign a petition to Honda?
>>
>>:)
>>
>>On Jun 21, 2006, at 2:05 PM, adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Don't make the same mistake I did by ordering a Power Thrust model
>>>Honda outboard.
>>>
>>>The only differences between these and the standard models are a
>>>higher pitch prop and a decal. However, the price is considerably
>>>higher than the standard model ($121 in my case for the 9.9). Not
>>>only that, but the dealer (supposedly) installs the higher pitch prop
>>>and keeps the original one. For less money, you can buy the standard
>>>model and a separate higher pitch prop and wind up having both props
>>>for various purposes.
>>>
>>>My dealer originally told me that there were internal mechanical
>>>differences between the Power Thrust and standard models (similar to
>>>Yamaha, which claims to have different gearing), and that's why I
>>>ordered one in the first place. I would not have discovered I was
>>>ripped off if the dealer hadn't forgotten to install the high pitch
>>>prop. He then told me that's the only difference I paid extra for,
>>>and told me to come over and get the prop and install it (and the
>>>tiny decal) myself, leaving the original prop with him. This led me
>>>to call Honda and confirm that the prop is the only difference and
>>>that I'd been ripped off. Honda knows it's a bad deal to order it
>>>this way, but confirmed I have to give the original prop back to the
>>>dealer. I'm steamed, but see little recourse besides a letter to
>>>Honda.
>>>
>>>I am going to try and get the dealer to take the "Power Thrust
>>>conversion kit" (i.e. the prop and decal) back and credit me for it
>>>today, but since he's already got my money, I doubt he'll do it.
>>>He's been a jerk on the whole deal anyway. Live and learn, I
>>>suppose, but I absolutely hate the fact that both Honda and the
>>>dealer know it's a rip-off and just shrug.
>>>
>>>Jon Kolb
>>>www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Mike Stockstill
>>mkstocks@bellsouth. <mailto:mkstocks%40bellsouth.net> net
>>http://mkstocks. <http://mkstocks.tripod.com/> tripod.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Bolger rules!!!
>>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
>>
>>
>horses
>
>
>>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
>>
>>
>(978) 282-1349
>
>
>>- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@
>>
>>
><mailto:bolger-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
>
>
>>- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_
>>
>>
><mailto:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
>lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Skip your dealer, go straight to Honda and inform them. No one wants the
light of truth shined onto their dark side.
Honda Power Equipment
Attn: Customer Relations
4900 Marconi Drive
Alpharetta, GA 30005-8847
Then continue to post this issue in multiple formats so that it gets out
there. Interestingly enough, Honda does not post an email address that is
readily accessible, I suspect that it exists, just not easy to find. I do
not see what you are doing as blackmail in any form, your notifying
potential buyers (of which I will not be one when and if I need to re-power)
is a public service. If some finds an email let the rest of know, I would
gladly forward the original comment and let Honda know that I find such
behavior unacceptable.
Caloosarat
_____
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Wesley Cox
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 4:38 PM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] OT: Honda "Power Thrust" Outboards
Good advice. Be careful to only state the facts in any public forum.
Any subjective comments could get you a libel suit.
Mike Stockstill wrote:
lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
light of truth shined onto their dark side.
Honda Power Equipment
Attn: Customer Relations
4900 Marconi Drive
Alpharetta, GA 30005-8847
Then continue to post this issue in multiple formats so that it gets out
there. Interestingly enough, Honda does not post an email address that is
readily accessible, I suspect that it exists, just not easy to find. I do
not see what you are doing as blackmail in any form, your notifying
potential buyers (of which I will not be one when and if I need to re-power)
is a public service. If some finds an email let the rest of know, I would
gladly forward the original comment and let Honda know that I find such
behavior unacceptable.
Caloosarat
_____
From: bolger@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Wesley Cox
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 4:38 PM
To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] OT: Honda "Power Thrust" Outboards
Good advice. Be careful to only state the facts in any public forum.
Any subjective comments could get you a libel suit.
Mike Stockstill wrote:
>when you go to the dealer show him your web site and let him knowhorses
>that hundreds of people see it regularly. tell him that if he works
>with you on this, you will make note of it, and that if he doesn't,
>then you will make note of that too - along with his name and
>business address. anyone who does a web search on the name of his
>business will see the comments. put the words 'better business
>bureau" and BBB on the web page too -- that way anyone who tries to
>search for him and BBB will get a hit. maybe a letter to the editor
>of MAIB and to Woodenboat and to Boatbuilder and to Practical Sailor
>warning of the problem would get Honda motivated to correct the issue.
>
>just a thought.
>
>sign a petition to Honda?
>
>:)
>
>On Jun 21, 2006, at 2:05 PM, adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
>
>
>
>>Don't make the same mistake I did by ordering a Power Thrust model
>>Honda outboard.
>>
>>The only differences between these and the standard models are a
>>higher pitch prop and a decal. However, the price is considerably
>>higher than the standard model ($121 in my case for the 9.9). Not
>>only that, but the dealer (supposedly) installs the higher pitch prop
>>and keeps the original one. For less money, you can buy the standard
>>model and a separate higher pitch prop and wind up having both props
>>for various purposes.
>>
>>My dealer originally told me that there were internal mechanical
>>differences between the Power Thrust and standard models (similar to
>>Yamaha, which claims to have different gearing), and that's why I
>>ordered one in the first place. I would not have discovered I was
>>ripped off if the dealer hadn't forgotten to install the high pitch
>>prop. He then told me that's the only difference I paid extra for,
>>and told me to come over and get the prop and install it (and the
>>tiny decal) myself, leaving the original prop with him. This led me
>>to call Honda and confirm that the prop is the only difference and
>>that I'd been ripped off. Honda knows it's a bad deal to order it
>>this way, but confirmed I have to give the original prop back to the
>>dealer. I'm steamed, but see little recourse besides a letter to
>>Honda.
>>
>>I am going to try and get the dealer to take the "Power Thrust
>>conversion kit" (i.e. the prop and decal) back and credit me for it
>>today, but since he's already got my money, I doubt he'll do it.
>>He's been a jerk on the whole deal anyway. Live and learn, I
>>suppose, but I absolutely hate the fact that both Honda and the
>>dealer know it's a rip-off and just shrug.
>>
>>Jon Kolb
>>www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Mike Stockstill
>mkstocks@bellsouth. <mailto:mkstocks%40bellsouth.net> net
>http://mkstocks. <http://mkstocks.tripod.com/> tripod.com/
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts(978) 282-1349
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
>- Unsubscribe: bolger-unsubscribe@<mailto:bolger-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion: bolger_coffee_<mailto:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Good advice. Be careful to only state the facts in any public forum.
Any subjective comments could get you a libel suit.
Mike Stockstill wrote:
Any subjective comments could get you a libel suit.
Mike Stockstill wrote:
>when you go to the dealer show him your web site and let him know
>that hundreds of people see it regularly. tell him that if he works
>with you on this, you will make note of it, and that if he doesn't,
>then you will make note of that too - along with his name and
>business address. anyone who does a web search on the name of his
>business will see the comments. put the words 'better business
>bureau" and BBB on the web page too -- that way anyone who tries to
>search for him and BBB will get a hit. maybe a letter to the editor
>of MAIB and to Woodenboat and to Boatbuilder and to Practical Sailor
>warning of the problem would get Honda motivated to correct the issue.
>
>just a thought.
>
>sign a petition to Honda?
>
>:)
>
>On Jun 21, 2006, at 2:05 PM, adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
>
>
>
>>Don't make the same mistake I did by ordering a Power Thrust model
>>Honda outboard.
>>
>>The only differences between these and the standard models are a
>>higher pitch prop and a decal. However, the price is considerably
>>higher than the standard model ($121 in my case for the 9.9). Not
>>only that, but the dealer (supposedly) installs the higher pitch prop
>>and keeps the original one. For less money, you can buy the standard
>>model and a separate higher pitch prop and wind up having both props
>>for various purposes.
>>
>>My dealer originally told me that there were internal mechanical
>>differences between the Power Thrust and standard models (similar to
>>Yamaha, which claims to have different gearing), and that's why I
>>ordered one in the first place. I would not have discovered I was
>>ripped off if the dealer hadn't forgotten to install the high pitch
>>prop. He then told me that's the only difference I paid extra for,
>>and told me to come over and get the prop and install it (and the
>>tiny decal) myself, leaving the original prop with him. This led me
>>to call Honda and confirm that the prop is the only difference and
>>that I'd been ripped off. Honda knows it's a bad deal to order it
>>this way, but confirmed I have to give the original prop back to the
>>dealer. I'm steamed, but see little recourse besides a letter to
>>Honda.
>>
>>I am going to try and get the dealer to take the "Power Thrust
>>conversion kit" (i.e. the prop and decal) back and credit me for it
>>today, but since he's already got my money, I doubt he'll do it.
>>He's been a jerk on the whole deal anyway. Live and learn, I
>>suppose, but I absolutely hate the fact that both Honda and the
>>dealer know it's a rip-off and just shrug.
>>
>>Jon Kolb
>>www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Mike Stockstill
>mkstocks@...
>http://mkstocks.tripod.com/
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Bolger rules!!!
>- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
>- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
>- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
>- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
>- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
>- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
when you go to the dealer show him your web site and let him know
that hundreds of people see it regularly. tell him that if he works
with you on this, you will make note of it, and that if he doesn't,
then you will make note of that too - along with his name and
business address. anyone who does a web search on the name of his
business will see the comments. put the words 'better business
bureau" and BBB on the web page too -- that way anyone who tries to
search for him and BBB will get a hit. maybe a letter to the editor
of MAIB and to Woodenboat and to Boatbuilder and to Practical Sailor
warning of the problem would get Honda motivated to correct the issue.
just a thought.
sign a petition to Honda?
:)
that hundreds of people see it regularly. tell him that if he works
with you on this, you will make note of it, and that if he doesn't,
then you will make note of that too - along with his name and
business address. anyone who does a web search on the name of his
business will see the comments. put the words 'better business
bureau" and BBB on the web page too -- that way anyone who tries to
search for him and BBB will get a hit. maybe a letter to the editor
of MAIB and to Woodenboat and to Boatbuilder and to Practical Sailor
warning of the problem would get Honda motivated to correct the issue.
just a thought.
sign a petition to Honda?
:)
On Jun 21, 2006, at 2:05 PM, adventures_in_astrophotography wrote:
> Don't make the same mistake I did by ordering a Power Thrust model
> Honda outboard.
>
> The only differences between these and the standard models are a
> higher pitch prop and a decal. However, the price is considerably
> higher than the standard model ($121 in my case for the 9.9). Not
> only that, but the dealer (supposedly) installs the higher pitch prop
> and keeps the original one. For less money, you can buy the standard
> model and a separate higher pitch prop and wind up having both props
> for various purposes.
>
> My dealer originally told me that there were internal mechanical
> differences between the Power Thrust and standard models (similar to
> Yamaha, which claims to have different gearing), and that's why I
> ordered one in the first place. I would not have discovered I was
> ripped off if the dealer hadn't forgotten to install the high pitch
> prop. He then told me that's the only difference I paid extra for,
> and told me to come over and get the prop and install it (and the
> tiny decal) myself, leaving the original prop with him. This led me
> to call Honda and confirm that the prop is the only difference and
> that I'd been ripped off. Honda knows it's a bad deal to order it
> this way, but confirmed I have to give the original prop back to the
> dealer. I'm steamed, but see little recourse besides a letter to
> Honda.
>
> I am going to try and get the dealer to take the "Power Thrust
> conversion kit" (i.e. the prop and decal) back and credit me for it
> today, but since he's already got my money, I doubt he'll do it.
> He's been a jerk on the whole deal anyway. Live and learn, I
> suppose, but I absolutely hate the fact that both Honda and the
> dealer know it's a rip-off and just shrug.
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
>
>
Mike Stockstill
mkstocks@...
http://mkstocks.tripod.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Don't make the same mistake I did by ordering a Power Thrust model
Honda outboard.
The only differences between these and the standard models are a
higher pitch prop and a decal. However, the price is considerably
higher than the standard model ($121 in my case for the 9.9). Not
only that, but the dealer (supposedly) installs the higher pitch prop
and keeps the original one. For less money, you can buy the standard
model and a separate higher pitch prop and wind up having both props
for various purposes.
My dealer originally told me that there were internal mechanical
differences between the Power Thrust and standard models (similar to
Yamaha, which claims to have different gearing), and that's why I
ordered one in the first place. I would not have discovered I was
ripped off if the dealer hadn't forgotten to install the high pitch
prop. He then told me that's the only difference I paid extra for,
and told me to come over and get the prop and install it (and the
tiny decal) myself, leaving the original prop with him. This led me
to call Honda and confirm that the prop is the only difference and
that I'd been ripped off. Honda knows it's a bad deal to order it
this way, but confirmed I have to give the original prop back to the
dealer. I'm steamed, but see little recourse besides a letter to
Honda.
I am going to try and get the dealer to take the "Power Thrust
conversion kit" (i.e. the prop and decal) back and credit me for it
today, but since he's already got my money, I doubt he'll do it.
He's been a jerk on the whole deal anyway. Live and learn, I
suppose, but I absolutely hate the fact that both Honda and the
dealer know it's a rip-off and just shrug.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
Honda outboard.
The only differences between these and the standard models are a
higher pitch prop and a decal. However, the price is considerably
higher than the standard model ($121 in my case for the 9.9). Not
only that, but the dealer (supposedly) installs the higher pitch prop
and keeps the original one. For less money, you can buy the standard
model and a separate higher pitch prop and wind up having both props
for various purposes.
My dealer originally told me that there were internal mechanical
differences between the Power Thrust and standard models (similar to
Yamaha, which claims to have different gearing), and that's why I
ordered one in the first place. I would not have discovered I was
ripped off if the dealer hadn't forgotten to install the high pitch
prop. He then told me that's the only difference I paid extra for,
and told me to come over and get the prop and install it (and the
tiny decal) myself, leaving the original prop with him. This led me
to call Honda and confirm that the prop is the only difference and
that I'd been ripped off. Honda knows it's a bad deal to order it
this way, but confirmed I have to give the original prop back to the
dealer. I'm steamed, but see little recourse besides a letter to
Honda.
I am going to try and get the dealer to take the "Power Thrust
conversion kit" (i.e. the prop and decal) back and credit me for it
today, but since he's already got my money, I doubt he'll do it.
He's been a jerk on the whole deal anyway. Live and learn, I
suppose, but I absolutely hate the fact that both Honda and the
dealer know it's a rip-off and just shrug.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm