Re: Brick Schooner (Skimmer)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
Build a deeper Skimmer with a bow that would fit the regular Grout:-D
Fast Brick Motorsailer?
Nels
wrote:
>>If you already have a Brick Schooner combo then...
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarman89@> wrote:
> >
> > It seems if you attached half a Grout, to eliminate the rocker
> aft,
> > it should plane easily. Or attach it forward, as the design is
> > intended to motor backwards. Where to put the registration
> numbers?
> >
> > Sealing the Half Grout to Brick joint at Half Grout's forward edge
> > might be a problem.
>
Build a deeper Skimmer with a bow that would fit the regular Grout:-D
Fast Brick Motorsailer?
Nels
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
(http://hometown.aol.com/polysail/HTML/boatnote.htm)
in the link Nels gave in the "Skimmer" thread brought to mind the
great suggestions on the Brick Schooner thread of hinging it, or
adding the aft half of a "Grout" to the bow of a "Brick" to achieve
planing with an outboard. I'd guess the stresses invoved, especially
when skipping over waves, would mean that the "half-Grout", and
the means of attachement, would have to be heavily built, and of
industrial strength for safety. Also what then to do with the "half-
Grout" if your out on the water and want to raise sail? The motor
end would dig in, or bulldoze a big wave when sailing, and it would
likely be too big and heavy to disconnect and bring on board.
Things wouldn't have to be so industrial for better sailing/rowing
of "Skimmer", or "Hot Tub lll", at displacement speeds. To reduce
drag from the stern transom at these speeds two sponsons (canard?)
at each side of the outboard, having an upward curving run, hinged
from the transom, and secured by catches would fair the water flow
and cut the drag. When sailing the weatherside one will hardly touch
the water, and the immersed leeside one would provide more bouyancy
to carry sail. They would only have to take the stresses involved in
sailing so could be quite lightly built. Come time to start the iron
sail and plane under power, the short, light sponsons would be
easily unlatched and rotate on the hinges inboard over the transom
to rest snugly up against it on the floor, where they might make do
as inclined backrests.
It maybe easier to get a casually acceptable sailing performance
from "Skimmer' than to go the other way and try "Brick' at speed-
boating.
PCB mentions that the aft rocker to the run on "Brick" could be done
away with, and wondered on the increase in benefits of the bouyancy
gained outweighing the disadvantage of the increased drag. I'm
not sure if he was thinking of shifting the motor position to the
stern too (and he made other changes to develop "Fast Brick").
In the case of "Skimmer", it's already a proven performer on the
plane under small horsepower, and should not be too hard to improve
its sailing performance. David Gray said "Hot Tub lll" didn't beat
too well. Apart from it rounding up to weather, water threatened to
come over the bow, and it wouldn't make progeress up wind. Changes
to the sail size and position of the leeboard will no doubt help as
he mentioned. A slight raising of the freeboard all round will stop
the water over the bow. As for progress to weather, PCB said
that "Brick" sails so well in this regard due to its relatively
extremely long foils providing lots of lift, and it maybe that the
foils on "Hot Tub lll" were too short. David knows his stuff, but
his concern that wind under the hull when heeled by sail might cause
capsize should only be a trouble when the winds are too extreme
anyhow.
Graeme
> Then there is this choice:-)Looking at the "Hot Tub lll" motor/row/sail version sailing photos
>http://members.aol.com/sredcon/4x8boat.htm
(http://hometown.aol.com/polysail/HTML/boatnote.htm)
in the link Nels gave in the "Skimmer" thread brought to mind the
great suggestions on the Brick Schooner thread of hinging it, or
adding the aft half of a "Grout" to the bow of a "Brick" to achieve
planing with an outboard. I'd guess the stresses invoved, especially
when skipping over waves, would mean that the "half-Grout", and
the means of attachement, would have to be heavily built, and of
industrial strength for safety. Also what then to do with the "half-
Grout" if your out on the water and want to raise sail? The motor
end would dig in, or bulldoze a big wave when sailing, and it would
likely be too big and heavy to disconnect and bring on board.
Things wouldn't have to be so industrial for better sailing/rowing
of "Skimmer", or "Hot Tub lll", at displacement speeds. To reduce
drag from the stern transom at these speeds two sponsons (canard?)
at each side of the outboard, having an upward curving run, hinged
from the transom, and secured by catches would fair the water flow
and cut the drag. When sailing the weatherside one will hardly touch
the water, and the immersed leeside one would provide more bouyancy
to carry sail. They would only have to take the stresses involved in
sailing so could be quite lightly built. Come time to start the iron
sail and plane under power, the short, light sponsons would be
easily unlatched and rotate on the hinges inboard over the transom
to rest snugly up against it on the floor, where they might make do
as inclined backrests.
It maybe easier to get a casually acceptable sailing performance
from "Skimmer' than to go the other way and try "Brick' at speed-
boating.
PCB mentions that the aft rocker to the run on "Brick" could be done
away with, and wondered on the increase in benefits of the bouyancy
gained outweighing the disadvantage of the increased drag. I'm
not sure if he was thinking of shifting the motor position to the
stern too (and he made other changes to develop "Fast Brick").
In the case of "Skimmer", it's already a proven performer on the
plane under small horsepower, and should not be too hard to improve
its sailing performance. David Gray said "Hot Tub lll" didn't beat
too well. Apart from it rounding up to weather, water threatened to
come over the bow, and it wouldn't make progeress up wind. Changes
to the sail size and position of the leeboard will no doubt help as
he mentioned. A slight raising of the freeboard all round will stop
the water over the bow. As for progress to weather, PCB said
that "Brick" sails so well in this regard due to its relatively
extremely long foils providing lots of lift, and it maybe that the
foils on "Hot Tub lll" were too short. David knows his stuff, but
his concern that wind under the hull when heeled by sail might cause
capsize should only be a trouble when the winds are too extreme
anyhow.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarman89@...> wrote:
>
> It seems if you attached half a Grout, to eliminate the rocker
aft,
> it should plane easily. Or attach it forward, as the design is
> intended to motor backwards. Where to put the registration
numbers?
>
> Sealing the Half Grout to Brick joint at Half Grout's forward edge
> might be a problem.
At 9:55 AM -0400 8/25/06, Clyde Wisner wrote:
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Trex type skids on the bottom making also bilge keels of say 2-inch depth.
>pickup truck Shouldn't be too heavy to wrestle up a wooden ramp to the
>truck, no wheels. There is something "not right" about wheels on a boat.
>Clyde
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I like the grout motor mount idea and wish somebody had thought of it
before I modified my foam brick. With a honda 2, I could just keep the
bow down at idle. The grout not withstanding, how about making a 16ft
brick with a little side framing, two masts, one dagger board. Even make
it fold in the middle like the FS, and haul it folded in the back of a
pickup truck Shouldn't be too heavy to wrestle up a wooden ramp to the
truck, no wheels. There is something "not right" about wheels on a boat.
Clyde
graeme19121984 wrote:
before I modified my foam brick. With a honda 2, I could just keep the
bow down at idle. The grout not withstanding, how about making a 16ft
brick with a little side framing, two masts, one dagger board. Even make
it fold in the middle like the FS, and haul it folded in the back of a
pickup truck Shouldn't be too heavy to wrestle up a wooden ramp to the
truck, no wheels. There is something "not right" about wheels on a boat.
Clyde
graeme19121984 wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> "oarmandt" <oarman89@...> wrote:
> > Where to put the registration numbers?
>
> Now that will really have officialdom stumped ;)
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarman89@...> wrote:
> Where to put the registration numbers?Now that will really have officialdom stumped ;)
It seems if you attached half a Grout, to eliminate the rocker aft,
it should plane easily. Or attach it forward, as the design is
intended to motor backwards. Where to put the registration numbers?
Sealing the Half Grout to Brick joint at Half Grout's forward edge
might be a problem.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
it should plane easily. Or attach it forward, as the design is
intended to motor backwards. Where to put the registration numbers?
Sealing the Half Grout to Brick joint at Half Grout's forward edge
might be a problem.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>take
> Hi,
>
> a question anyone.
>
> If powered sufficiently (5-10HP?), and built strong enough to take
> it, would a Brick 'n Grout (Brick garvey-schooner?) get up and
> off on the plane?schooner
>
> It would have an 8ft or so flat bottom amidships, kind'a like the
> Brick derived Puddle Duck Racer, and they plane under sail! (The
> mind boggles at the multi-combination fun possibilities of such a
> flying schooner.)
>
> It strikes me that, with due allowance made, the hull would be
> similar to Jim Michalak's planing 'Campjon' (long enough to
> rig ;-))may
>
>http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/campjon/index.htm
>
> and there is Fritz Funk's elegant demonstration of how a Jonboat
> sailya
>
>http://209.193.28.16/Boats/sailflat/jonsail.htm
>
> So, would it? A Cheap Breakdown Schooner Fast Motor Sailer? What
> reckon?
>
> Graeme
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
Double Brick paddlewheeler? Is epoxy dust hallucenogenic?
wrote:
>How 'bout a Brick Grouted to a Fast Brick? Grout as a motor module?
> Hi,
>
> a question anyone.
>
> If powered sufficiently (5-10HP?), and built strong enough to take
> it, would a Brick 'n Grout (Brick garvey-schooner?) get up and take
> off on the plane?
Double Brick paddlewheeler? Is epoxy dust hallucenogenic?
Hi,
a question anyone.
If powered sufficiently (5-10HP?), and built strong enough to take
it, would a Brick 'n Grout (Brick garvey-schooner?) get up and take
off on the plane?
It would have an 8ft or so flat bottom amidships, kind'a like the
Brick derived Puddle Duck Racer, and they plane under sail! (The
mind boggles at the multi-combination fun possibilities of such a
flying schooner.)
It strikes me that, with due allowance made, the hull would be
similar to Jim Michalak's planing 'Campjon' (long enough to schooner
rig ;-))
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/campjon/index.htm
and there is Fritz Funk's elegant demonstration of how a Jonboat may
sail
http://209.193.28.16/Boats/sailflat/jonsail.htm
So, would it? A Cheap Breakdown Schooner Fast Motor Sailer? What ya
reckon?
Graeme
a question anyone.
If powered sufficiently (5-10HP?), and built strong enough to take
it, would a Brick 'n Grout (Brick garvey-schooner?) get up and take
off on the plane?
It would have an 8ft or so flat bottom amidships, kind'a like the
Brick derived Puddle Duck Racer, and they plane under sail! (The
mind boggles at the multi-combination fun possibilities of such a
flying schooner.)
It strikes me that, with due allowance made, the hull would be
similar to Jim Michalak's planing 'Campjon' (long enough to schooner
rig ;-))
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/campjon/index.htm
and there is Fritz Funk's elegant demonstration of how a Jonboat may
sail
http://209.193.28.16/Boats/sailflat/jonsail.htm
So, would it? A Cheap Breakdown Schooner Fast Motor Sailer? What ya
reckon?
Graeme
Some photos of those also here at one of Jeff Blunck's messabout pages:
http://4dw.net/cosailor/ontario/misc.htm
http://4dw.net/cosailor/messabout.htm
Graeme
http://4dw.net/cosailor/ontario/misc.htm
http://4dw.net/cosailor/messabout.htm
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Two photos from the Kingston Messabout can be viewed here.
>
> Just over half-way down the album
>
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/gatherings/kingston/index.cfm
>
> Nels
>
Two photos from the Kingston Messabout can be viewed here.
Just over half-way down the album
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/gatherings/kingston/index.cfm
Nels
Just over half-way down the album
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/gatherings/kingston/index.cfm
Nels