trapezoidal air mattress (Re: Bob Larkin's Birdwatcher II is launched!)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarman89@...> wrote:
> One of my issues yet to resolve is how to make a comfortable bed inMaddog MacBride did:http://nauticalfollies.com/airbed.htm
> this thing. Anyone make a trapezoidal air mattress?
I am going to go with 6'6", I will shape the stocks a couple of blank
oars I have and cut them to length.
HJ
GarthAB wrote:
oars I have and cut them to length.
HJ
GarthAB wrote:
> I have an Elegant Punt and row it with 6'6" oars just fine. They
> happened to be on hand. 7-footers would work as well or better and
> still stow within the length of the boat. If you decided you wanted
> 8-footers, you could make cutout lifting slots / oar stowage slots in
> the transom . . .
>
> Garth
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
>> How long should the oars on an Elegant Punt be?
>>
>> HJ
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
inch or two narrower than the punt but I think 6 ft is good. I have
used the same 6' oars on our 12' aluminum boat and they work well
there also. On the canal where we boat 6' is the most popular length
of all our neighbors.
>I use 6' oars on a teal and they seem perfect to me. The teal is a
> How long should the oars on an Elegant Punt be?
>
> HJ
>
inch or two narrower than the punt but I think 6 ft is good. I have
used the same 6' oars on our 12' aluminum boat and they work well
there also. On the canal where we boat 6' is the most popular length
of all our neighbors.
Try www.shawandtenney.com for a formula for calculating oar length.
John T
John T
----- Original Message -----
From: Harry James
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:20 PM
Subject: [bolger] Oar length
How long should the oars on an Elegant Punt be?
HJ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have an Elegant Punt and row it with 6'6" oars just fine. They
happened to be on hand. 7-footers would work as well or better and
still stow within the length of the boat. If you decided you wanted
8-footers, you could make cutout lifting slots / oar stowage slots in
the transom . . .
Garth
happened to be on hand. 7-footers would work as well or better and
still stow within the length of the boat. If you decided you wanted
8-footers, you could make cutout lifting slots / oar stowage slots in
the transom . . .
Garth
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> How long should the oars on an Elegant Punt be?
>
> HJ
>
On 9/10/06, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
the boat with some pieces of scrap wood and experiment to find what
'feels right'.
>There are a lot of variables, and personally, I prefer to just sit in
> How long should the oars on an Elegant Punt be?
>
> HJ
the boat with some pieces of scrap wood and experiment to find what
'feels right'.
From the "Boatmans Manual", Carl D. Lane.
"Twice the width of the thwart plus the freeboard at the oarlock"
which seems long, otherwise for dinghys: 7'overall 6'oar, 9'overall
6'6", 11'overall 7'oar. 13'overall 7' 6" oar.
"Twice the width of the thwart plus the freeboard at the oarlock"
which seems long, otherwise for dinghys: 7'overall 6'oar, 9'overall
6'6", 11'overall 7'oar. 13'overall 7' 6" oar.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> How long should the oars on an Elegant Punt be?
>
> HJ
>
How long should the oars on an Elegant Punt be?
HJ
HJ
Yea, that was my first thought. Turns out that the corners of the
rectanular air mattress turn up at the foot of the berth, severely
impairing the space. That's okay for solo sleeping, but for the most
enjoyable cruise, something better is needed.
Doug.
rectanular air mattress turn up at the foot of the berth, severely
impairing the space. That's okay for solo sleeping, but for the most
enjoyable cruise, something better is needed.
Doug.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis <ccurtis@...> wrote:
>
> Quoting oarmandt <oarman89@...>:
>
> This may be a lame idea (that NEVER stops me!), but I'd go with a cheap
> inflatable mattress. You should be able to pick one up at wal-mart
for $15.00
> US on up. I find they will inflate in whatever space you have.
They don't
> generally last very long, but at that price you can buy a spare.
There is also
> patch material with the beds that works well, unless you have a seam
tear.
> My wife, kids, and I just returned from the Oregon Star Party, and
used the air
> mattress exclusively. Wife and I on one, and the kids on another.
Even with
> the kids using them as trampoline, they held up. Very comfortable
also.
>
> Chris Curtis
>
>
>
Hi Jason,
PCB defines seaworthiness as "the ability to keep the sea in all
weather in reasonable safety". There's a book on yacht design and
use, by John Vigor I think, that begins with and then ends every
chapter by asking the reader to consider the ramifications of being
inverted. Moreover there's the washing machine thing.
Birdwatcher will resist inversion from wind knockdown, but where
there's wind there's waves, and they are sometimes steep and
breaking. Birdwatcher may have to do the "corked-bottle act" for a
long time. I think you would want very good pre-planning, fit out,
back-up, and luck to attempt the Tasman in Birdwatcher.
Coastal cruising means with prudent seamanship you should have
reached a safe haven before weather conditions can turn too nasty. I
think the near offshore reefs of the northern GBR are within the
reach of Birdwatcher, but even inside the reef the seas are often
very short, steep, and rough. Likewise the bar crossings beyond the
southern influence of the GBR. Consider what Birdwatcher could
reasonably ride out at sea, and for how long. Consider how a
seaworthy open dinghy may sometimes be handled after capsizing in
the surf associated with a rough bar crossing, and whether
Birdwatcher could be. As the dinghy is righted most of the water
drains away. In Birdwatcher, if the slot covers are knocked off,
what then?
I like the versatility too. Really attracted by it. I just think an
open boat for offshore should largely float high when flooded and be
largely self draining as it rights, and a decked boat should be
water tight. If monohulls, both should be unstable when inverted. I
don't know, but I've a feeling Birdwatcher falls between two stools;
just as it brilliantly sits upon them in other respects.
Cheers
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, jason barnes <mootexperience@...>
wrote:
shallow draft to go up the many rivers as well. The many islands up
by the GBReef, being able to just pull it up on the beach. Maybe
even cross the Tasman?
PCB defines seaworthiness as "the ability to keep the sea in all
weather in reasonable safety". There's a book on yacht design and
use, by John Vigor I think, that begins with and then ends every
chapter by asking the reader to consider the ramifications of being
inverted. Moreover there's the washing machine thing.
Birdwatcher will resist inversion from wind knockdown, but where
there's wind there's waves, and they are sometimes steep and
breaking. Birdwatcher may have to do the "corked-bottle act" for a
long time. I think you would want very good pre-planning, fit out,
back-up, and luck to attempt the Tasman in Birdwatcher.
Coastal cruising means with prudent seamanship you should have
reached a safe haven before weather conditions can turn too nasty. I
think the near offshore reefs of the northern GBR are within the
reach of Birdwatcher, but even inside the reef the seas are often
very short, steep, and rough. Likewise the bar crossings beyond the
southern influence of the GBR. Consider what Birdwatcher could
reasonably ride out at sea, and for how long. Consider how a
seaworthy open dinghy may sometimes be handled after capsizing in
the surf associated with a rough bar crossing, and whether
Birdwatcher could be. As the dinghy is righted most of the water
drains away. In Birdwatcher, if the slot covers are knocked off,
what then?
I like the versatility too. Really attracted by it. I just think an
open boat for offshore should largely float high when flooded and be
largely self draining as it rights, and a decked boat should be
water tight. If monohulls, both should be unstable when inverted. I
don't know, but I've a feeling Birdwatcher falls between two stools;
just as it brilliantly sits upon them in other respects.
Cheers
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, jason barnes <mootexperience@...>
wrote:
>plenty of sandy beaches.
>
> It is all very interesting, I live in Australia so theres
>like to sail it on the ocean but would love to make use of the
> Its the versatility of the BWII that apeals to me. Mostly I'd
shallow draft to go up the many rivers as well. The many islands up
by the GBReef, being able to just pull it up on the beach. Maybe
even cross the Tasman?
>
> Jason
Quoting oarmandt <oarman89@...>:
This may be a lame idea (that NEVER stops me!), but I'd go with a cheap
inflatable mattress. You should be able to pick one up at wal-mart for $15.00
US on up. I find they will inflate in whatever space you have. They don't
generally last very long, but at that price you can buy a spare. There is also
patch material with the beds that works well, unless you have a seam tear.
My wife, kids, and I just returned from the Oregon Star Party, and used the air
mattress exclusively. Wife and I on one, and the kids on another. Even with
the kids using them as trampoline, they held up. Very comfortable also.
Chris Curtis
This may be a lame idea (that NEVER stops me!), but I'd go with a cheap
inflatable mattress. You should be able to pick one up at wal-mart for $15.00
US on up. I find they will inflate in whatever space you have. They don't
generally last very long, but at that price you can buy a spare. There is also
patch material with the beds that works well, unless you have a seam tear.
My wife, kids, and I just returned from the Oregon Star Party, and used the air
mattress exclusively. Wife and I on one, and the kids on another. Even with
the kids using them as trampoline, they held up. Very comfortable also.
Chris Curtis
> My Birdwatcher 1.5 got a few overnighters and a few daysails before
> the summer weather shut me down. In the Florida summer you generally
> have two choices of sailing weather, dead calm in the morning and
> thunderstorms in the afternoon. There is a brief window of sailable
> sea breeze between calm and chaos. I am very happy with the boat so
> far. My last outing was the first singlehanded and all of that went
> well including trailer launch and retrieval and reefing the solent
> lug. I am finding that I can't be bothered to put up the jib. Mine
> is the smaller version from the BW I alternate rig. The mast flexes
> too much to make it useful to windward. Downwind, it is blanketed by
> the main. Where I want to go is never a reach.
>
> My boat has the BW II rudder/tiller with the BW I cabin. This means
> my tiller disk is under the aft deck, further aft than in BW II. This
> makes the aft cabin roomier but makes the tiller longer. I had used
> the gate hinge for the tiller to disk connection as drawn. Maybe this
> is okay in BW II, but with my longer tiller, it was possible to put
> way too much torque on the hinge. The hinge bent badly on an early
> outing. My fix was to bolt two 2" angle irons fore and aft on the
> underside of the disk, the width of a 2x4 apart, legs outward. They
> extend almost 3" forward of the disk's flat edge. There is a 1/4"
> bolt in the forward lower corner going from angle to angle. A tiller
> carved from a 2x4 rests between the angles and on top of the bolt.
> Very robust, simple, and usable from seated to standing. The tiller
> is free to hinge up and down between the angles with small blocks to
> locate it fore and aft on the bolt. The tiller lifts right out to
> clear the cabin. Bolger's hinge was a shortcoming in this regard, one
> of the awkward parts of making the cabin and the cockpit the same space.
>
> One of my issues yet to resolve is how to make a comfortable bed in
> this thing. Anyone make a trapezoidal air mattress? I find that
> closed cell foam is too stiff for comfort, but I do not care to sleep
> on an open cell foam as it is too likely to become a soggy sponge.
> Whatever is used has to stow out of the way. I bought from Defender a
> 1.5" closed cell sheet to cover the whole floor of the aft section.
> This was a great addition for sailing, being comfortable enough to sit
> on, easy on the knees when crawling around on tacking, but tough
> enough to walk on. It's just too stiff to sleep on.
>
> Doug
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob larkin" <boblark@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Doug-
> >
> > Bolger drew almost the same foam sandwich for the BW2 covers as the
> > boat walls (1/8-inch ply outside. 1-inch foam, 1/8-inch ply inside).
> > If constructed this way, they should both be strong and be difficult
> > to stow!! Supporting your point, the forward cover might benefit
> > from 1/4-inch ply on the outside. The sandwich is a whole bunch
> > stronger than the plys by themselves.
> >
> > The choice of latches ise left to the builder.
> >
> > What have you been doing in your BW? I know you had some rudder
> > questions, as well---how is all that?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarman89@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I would add that in rough water you will want very sturdy slot
> > covers
> > > and latches. I am not so sure that BWII covers as designed are up
> > to
> > > potential solid green water duty. I think they are intended for
> > rain
> > > and spray only.
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
My Birdwatcher 1.5 got a few overnighters and a few daysails before
the summer weather shut me down. In the Florida summer you generally
have two choices of sailing weather, dead calm in the morning and
thunderstorms in the afternoon. There is a brief window of sailable
sea breeze between calm and chaos. I am very happy with the boat so
far. My last outing was the first singlehanded and all of that went
well including trailer launch and retrieval and reefing the solent
lug. I am finding that I can't be bothered to put up the jib. Mine
is the smaller version from the BW I alternate rig. The mast flexes
too much to make it useful to windward. Downwind, it is blanketed by
the main. Where I want to go is never a reach.
My boat has the BW II rudder/tiller with the BW I cabin. This means
my tiller disk is under the aft deck, further aft than in BW II. This
makes the aft cabin roomier but makes the tiller longer. I had used
the gate hinge for the tiller to disk connection as drawn. Maybe this
is okay in BW II, but with my longer tiller, it was possible to put
way too much torque on the hinge. The hinge bent badly on an early
outing. My fix was to bolt two 2" angle irons fore and aft on the
underside of the disk, the width of a 2x4 apart, legs outward. They
extend almost 3" forward of the disk's flat edge. There is a 1/4"
bolt in the forward lower corner going from angle to angle. A tiller
carved from a 2x4 rests between the angles and on top of the bolt.
Very robust, simple, and usable from seated to standing. The tiller
is free to hinge up and down between the angles with small blocks to
locate it fore and aft on the bolt. The tiller lifts right out to
clear the cabin. Bolger's hinge was a shortcoming in this regard, one
of the awkward parts of making the cabin and the cockpit the same space.
One of my issues yet to resolve is how to make a comfortable bed in
this thing. Anyone make a trapezoidal air mattress? I find that
closed cell foam is too stiff for comfort, but I do not care to sleep
on an open cell foam as it is too likely to become a soggy sponge.
Whatever is used has to stow out of the way. I bought from Defender a
1.5" closed cell sheet to cover the whole floor of the aft section.
This was a great addition for sailing, being comfortable enough to sit
on, easy on the knees when crawling around on tacking, but tough
enough to walk on. It's just too stiff to sleep on.
Doug
the summer weather shut me down. In the Florida summer you generally
have two choices of sailing weather, dead calm in the morning and
thunderstorms in the afternoon. There is a brief window of sailable
sea breeze between calm and chaos. I am very happy with the boat so
far. My last outing was the first singlehanded and all of that went
well including trailer launch and retrieval and reefing the solent
lug. I am finding that I can't be bothered to put up the jib. Mine
is the smaller version from the BW I alternate rig. The mast flexes
too much to make it useful to windward. Downwind, it is blanketed by
the main. Where I want to go is never a reach.
My boat has the BW II rudder/tiller with the BW I cabin. This means
my tiller disk is under the aft deck, further aft than in BW II. This
makes the aft cabin roomier but makes the tiller longer. I had used
the gate hinge for the tiller to disk connection as drawn. Maybe this
is okay in BW II, but with my longer tiller, it was possible to put
way too much torque on the hinge. The hinge bent badly on an early
outing. My fix was to bolt two 2" angle irons fore and aft on the
underside of the disk, the width of a 2x4 apart, legs outward. They
extend almost 3" forward of the disk's flat edge. There is a 1/4"
bolt in the forward lower corner going from angle to angle. A tiller
carved from a 2x4 rests between the angles and on top of the bolt.
Very robust, simple, and usable from seated to standing. The tiller
is free to hinge up and down between the angles with small blocks to
locate it fore and aft on the bolt. The tiller lifts right out to
clear the cabin. Bolger's hinge was a shortcoming in this regard, one
of the awkward parts of making the cabin and the cockpit the same space.
One of my issues yet to resolve is how to make a comfortable bed in
this thing. Anyone make a trapezoidal air mattress? I find that
closed cell foam is too stiff for comfort, but I do not care to sleep
on an open cell foam as it is too likely to become a soggy sponge.
Whatever is used has to stow out of the way. I bought from Defender a
1.5" closed cell sheet to cover the whole floor of the aft section.
This was a great addition for sailing, being comfortable enough to sit
on, easy on the knees when crawling around on tacking, but tough
enough to walk on. It's just too stiff to sleep on.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob larkin" <boblark@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Doug-
>
> Bolger drew almost the same foam sandwich for the BW2 covers as the
> boat walls (1/8-inch ply outside. 1-inch foam, 1/8-inch ply inside).
> If constructed this way, they should both be strong and be difficult
> to stow!! Supporting your point, the forward cover might benefit
> from 1/4-inch ply on the outside. The sandwich is a whole bunch
> stronger than the plys by themselves.
>
> The choice of latches ise left to the builder.
>
> What have you been doing in your BW? I know you had some rudder
> questions, as well---how is all that?
>
> Bob
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarman89@> wrote:
> >
> > I would add that in rough water you will want very sturdy slot
> covers
> > and latches. I am not so sure that BWII covers as designed are up
> to
> > potential solid green water duty. I think they are intended for
> rain
> > and spray only.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ghartc" <gregg.carlson@...> wrote:
The BW2 has a longer, deeper center board than BW1 with 110 lbs of
steel ballast, and a larger, more weatherly rig.
The BW2 , I'm hoping, will be fairly adept at moving upwind off a lee
shore, though seamanship will dictate to try and avoid that situation
to begin with.FWIW, Rather than be stuck on my side in the surf in a
keel boat, I'd still rather try to make an emergency landing on a
beach ( a la Commodore Munroe in Egret)of any type by raising the
board, sailing/surfing in and letting the 1" thick flat, glass/epoxy
coated bottom sheild my rather thinner bottom.
Just my armchair musings,
David
>- seamanship and weatherliness.
> I have to disagree. People end up on the lee shore when the
> winds blow, and so do the waves (end up on the lee shore). Not to
> mention rocks - lots of people drown that way. Besides, a
> 6-foot-draft sailboat will end up on the beach almost as fast. It's a
> little bit like arguing airbags are a good solution to driving
> with your eyes closed.
>
The BW2 has a longer, deeper center board than BW1 with 110 lbs of
steel ballast, and a larger, more weatherly rig.
The BW2 , I'm hoping, will be fairly adept at moving upwind off a lee
shore, though seamanship will dictate to try and avoid that situation
to begin with.FWIW, Rather than be stuck on my side in the surf in a
keel boat, I'd still rather try to make an emergency landing on a
beach ( a la Commodore Munroe in Egret)of any type by raising the
board, sailing/surfing in and letting the 1" thick flat, glass/epoxy
coated bottom sheild my rather thinner bottom.
Just my armchair musings,
David
I have to disagree. People end up on the lee shore when the
winds blow, and so do the waves (end up on the lee shore). Not to
mention rocks - lots of people drown that way. Besides, a
6-foot-draft sailboat will end up on the beach almost as fast. It's a
little bit like arguing airbags are a good solution to driving
with your eyes closed.
There are only two solutions - seamanship and weatherliness.
Seamanship of course encompasses all manner of common sense and
skill, but a weatherly boat is a function of design and the builder's
attention to detail.
All high-sailing boats have two things in common - deep keels and tall
(high aspect) rigs. Boat like the micro offer a lot of advantages (I
built one), but the price paid is quite low sailing angles - and a lot
more attention to trim to get what might be gotten. Unfortunately,
some builders exacerbate the problem further by crowning their
creation with sails of trash bags and duct tape.
Gregg Carlson
winds blow, and so do the waves (end up on the lee shore). Not to
mention rocks - lots of people drown that way. Besides, a
6-foot-draft sailboat will end up on the beach almost as fast. It's a
little bit like arguing airbags are a good solution to driving
with your eyes closed.
There are only two solutions - seamanship and weatherliness.
Seamanship of course encompasses all manner of common sense and
skill, but a weatherly boat is a function of design and the builder's
attention to detail.
All high-sailing boats have two things in common - deep keels and tall
(high aspect) rigs. Boat like the micro offer a lot of advantages (I
built one), but the price paid is quite low sailing angles - and a lot
more attention to trim to get what might be gotten. Unfortunately,
some builders exacerbate the problem further by crowning their
creation with sails of trash bags and duct tape.
Gregg Carlson
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
> > Isn't a good defense to the 'lee shore' problem: Shallow draft?
> >
> > In other words, (except for the hardest chance), in a Birdwatcher
> > blown up on a lee shore, you step out of the boat and walk away.
> >
> Certainly I agree 100%. The shallow draft would be an advantage if one
> decided to land on a lee shore. The lack of power to choose your
> location might be a concern. Rocks, cliffs, surf, mud banks, private
> land - even some parks do not allow boats to land.
>
> That seems also the concern with PCB&F regarding Micro use off-shore,
> but it would be interesting to see if it applied to Birdwatcher. I
> know they consider WDJ schooner capable of off-shore passages and it
> is a bigger sister to BWII.
>
> Nels
>
It is all very interesting, I live in Australia so theres plenty of sandy beaches.
Its the versatility of the BWII that apeals to me. Mostly I'd like to sail it on the ocean but would love to make use of the shallow draft to go up the many rivers as well. The many islands up by the GBReef, being able to just pull it up on the beach. Maybe even cross the Tasman?
Jason
---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Its the versatility of the BWII that apeals to me. Mostly I'd like to sail it on the ocean but would love to make use of the shallow draft to go up the many rivers as well. The many islands up by the GBReef, being able to just pull it up on the beach. Maybe even cross the Tasman?
Jason
---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Wesley Cox <inspirfe@...> wrote:
My original point was that I don't think the 2 Horse motor is big
enough for that kind of thing and not sure if it flips up easily
enough either, in that enclosure.
The strategy is you run the motor in reverse and ride a big wave
into shore and then shut off the motor and raise it out of the water
before it hits the hard. Then you jump out, grab the gunnel and run
with it. Two guys can run a small boat up above the high water mark
if you time it right and not ship a drop. If timed wrong the next
wave will likely come in over the stern.
This of course is with a small open boat.
Another option with a larger motor is that you can hold station
offshore, and by quartering the waves move away from the lee shore -
which I doubt you could do with the 2 hp tiny prop on a 25 foot
boat. You would be at the mercy of the wind as well as the waves.
Nels
>several
> Is shoal draft an advantage in a crash landing if the boat drops
> feet from a wave top to a rock bottom? There are many shore lineson
> the big lake here where I would definitely not want to be forcedto land
> in a crashing surf.I have found it works if the bottom is strong enough:-)
>
My original point was that I don't think the 2 Horse motor is big
enough for that kind of thing and not sure if it flips up easily
enough either, in that enclosure.
The strategy is you run the motor in reverse and ride a big wave
into shore and then shut off the motor and raise it out of the water
before it hits the hard. Then you jump out, grab the gunnel and run
with it. Two guys can run a small boat up above the high water mark
if you time it right and not ship a drop. If timed wrong the next
wave will likely come in over the stern.
This of course is with a small open boat.
Another option with a larger motor is that you can hold station
offshore, and by quartering the waves move away from the lee shore -
which I doubt you could do with the 2 hp tiny prop on a 25 foot
boat. You would be at the mercy of the wind as well as the waves.
Nels
Hi Doug-
Bolger drew almost the same foam sandwich for the BW2 covers as the
boat walls (1/8-inch ply outside. 1-inch foam, 1/8-inch ply inside).
If constructed this way, they should both be strong and be difficult
to stow!! Supporting your point, the forward cover might benefit
from 1/4-inch ply on the outside. The sandwich is a whole bunch
stronger than the plys by themselves.
The choice of latches ise left to the builder.
What have you been doing in your BW? I know you had some rudder
questions, as well---how is all that?
Bob
Bolger drew almost the same foam sandwich for the BW2 covers as the
boat walls (1/8-inch ply outside. 1-inch foam, 1/8-inch ply inside).
If constructed this way, they should both be strong and be difficult
to stow!! Supporting your point, the forward cover might benefit
from 1/4-inch ply on the outside. The sandwich is a whole bunch
stronger than the plys by themselves.
The choice of latches ise left to the builder.
What have you been doing in your BW? I know you had some rudder
questions, as well---how is all that?
Bob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarman89@...> wrote:
>
> I would add that in rough water you will want very sturdy slot
covers
> and latches. I am not so sure that BWII covers as designed are up
to
> potential solid green water duty. I think they are intended for
rain
> and spray only.
>
> Doug
>
>
> In other words, (except for the hardest chance), in a BirdwatcherTo paraphrase PCB, people who make this arguement live on shelving
> blown up on a lee shore, you step out of the boat and walk away.
coasts.
If the coast comprises jagged rock walls, a different approach is
required.
I would add that in rough water you will want very sturdy slot covers
and latches. I am not so sure that BWII covers as designed are up to
potential solid green water duty. I think they are intended for rain
and spray only.
Doug
and latches. I am not so sure that BWII covers as designed are up to
potential solid green water duty. I think they are intended for rain
and spray only.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob larkin" <boblark@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks to all for the comments, and the interesting discussion on
> oceans and BW's. BW is not my boat of choice for ocean travel, but
> the real question would seem to be the ability to deal with heavy
> weather, mostly unplanned! Allowing that this may be uncomfortable, I
> am left with two concerns for BW when the going gets rough.
>
> 1-The rudder linkage is too complicated. There are two big pulleys,
> four small ones, some Spectra line, two turnbuckles, a foldup rudder
> with more lines (near the prop) and generally a lot of things to go
> wrong. I plan to make an emergency tiller that wraps around the aft
> edge of the deck.
>
> 2-The Solent lug rig has a yard that looks like it could be very wild
> with things being tossed about. Mine is Sitka Spruce and weighs 11
> pounds, not a lot but several times that of a baseball bat. I am
> looking at a storm main that would use only the mast, no yard. Even
> so, a helmut with teeth protection, for getting the yard down looks
> like needed gear!
>
> These are the items that leap out as being potential big-weather
> trouble.
>
> Keep the comments coming! I have the main rigged and am adding
> latches to the oar-port covers in preparation for a sail!
>
> Cheers, Bob Larkin
> Corvallis, Oregon
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jason barnes" <mootexperience@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Looks great. I'm very interested in building one myself
> > just one question, how would it go on the ocean.
> >
>
Thanks to all for the comments, and the interesting discussion on
oceans and BW's. BW is not my boat of choice for ocean travel, but
the real question would seem to be the ability to deal with heavy
weather, mostly unplanned! Allowing that this may be uncomfortable, I
am left with two concerns for BW when the going gets rough.
1-The rudder linkage is too complicated. There are two big pulleys,
four small ones, some Spectra line, two turnbuckles, a foldup rudder
with more lines (near the prop) and generally a lot of things to go
wrong. I plan to make an emergency tiller that wraps around the aft
edge of the deck.
2-The Solent lug rig has a yard that looks like it could be very wild
with things being tossed about. Mine is Sitka Spruce and weighs 11
pounds, not a lot but several times that of a baseball bat. I am
looking at a storm main that would use only the mast, no yard. Even
so, a helmut with teeth protection, for getting the yard down looks
like needed gear!
These are the items that leap out as being potential big-weather
trouble.
Keep the comments coming! I have the main rigged and am adding
latches to the oar-port covers in preparation for a sail!
Cheers, Bob Larkin
Corvallis, Oregon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jason barnes" <mootexperience@...>
wrote:
oceans and BW's. BW is not my boat of choice for ocean travel, but
the real question would seem to be the ability to deal with heavy
weather, mostly unplanned! Allowing that this may be uncomfortable, I
am left with two concerns for BW when the going gets rough.
1-The rudder linkage is too complicated. There are two big pulleys,
four small ones, some Spectra line, two turnbuckles, a foldup rudder
with more lines (near the prop) and generally a lot of things to go
wrong. I plan to make an emergency tiller that wraps around the aft
edge of the deck.
2-The Solent lug rig has a yard that looks like it could be very wild
with things being tossed about. Mine is Sitka Spruce and weighs 11
pounds, not a lot but several times that of a baseball bat. I am
looking at a storm main that would use only the mast, no yard. Even
so, a helmut with teeth protection, for getting the yard down looks
like needed gear!
These are the items that leap out as being potential big-weather
trouble.
Keep the comments coming! I have the main rigged and am adding
latches to the oar-port covers in preparation for a sail!
Cheers, Bob Larkin
Corvallis, Oregon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "jason barnes" <mootexperience@...>
wrote:
>
> Looks great. I'm very interested in building one myself
> just one question, how would it go on the ocean.
>
Is shoal draft an advantage in a crash landing if the boat drops several
feet from a wave top to a rock bottom? There are many shore lines on
the big lake here where I would definitely not want to be forced to land
in a crashing surf.
Nels wrote:
feet from a wave top to a rock bottom? There are many shore lines on
the big lake here where I would definitely not want to be forced to land
in a crashing surf.
Nels wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
> > Isn't a good defense to the 'lee shore' problem: Shallow draft?
> >
> > In other words, (except for the hardest chance), in a Birdwatcher
> > blown up on a lee shore, you step out of the boat and walk away.
> >
> Certainly I agree 100%. The shallow draft would be an advantage if one
> decided to land on a lee shore. The lack of power to choose your
> location might be a concern. Rocks, cliffs, surf, mud banks, private
> land - even some parks do not allow boats to land.
>
> That seems also the concern with PCB&F regarding Micro use off-shore,
> but it would be interesting to see if it applied to Birdwatcher. I
> know they consider WDJ schooner capable of off-shore passages and it
> is a bigger sister to BWII.
>
> Nels
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
decided to land on a lee shore. The lack of power to choose your
location might be a concern. Rocks, cliffs, surf, mud banks, private
land - even some parks do not allow boats to land.
That seems also the concern with PCB&F regarding Micro use off-shore,
but it would be interesting to see if it applied to Birdwatcher. I
know they consider WDJ schooner capable of off-shore passages and it
is a bigger sister to BWII.
Nels
> Isn't a good defense to the 'lee shore' problem: Shallow draft?Certainly I agree 100%. The shallow draft would be an advantage if one
>
> In other words, (except for the hardest chance), in a Birdwatcher
> blown up on a lee shore, you step out of the boat and walk away.
>
decided to land on a lee shore. The lack of power to choose your
location might be a concern. Rocks, cliffs, surf, mud banks, private
land - even some parks do not allow boats to land.
That seems also the concern with PCB&F regarding Micro use off-shore,
but it would be interesting to see if it applied to Birdwatcher. I
know they consider WDJ schooner capable of off-shore passages and it
is a bigger sister to BWII.
Nels
On 9/7/06, Nels <arvent@...> wrote:
In other words, (except for the hardest chance), in a Birdwatcher
blown up on a lee shore, you step out of the boat and walk away.
> ye old "clawing off a lee shore scenario"Isn't a good defense to the 'lee shore' problem: Shallow draft?
In other words, (except for the hardest chance), in a Birdwatcher
blown up on a lee shore, you step out of the boat and walk away.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
due to liablility concerns and ye old "clawing off a lee shore
scenario". 2 HP is simply not adequate and the engine could get
severely doused as well.
However I would prefer a BirdwatcherII compared to your average dory.
But then I would not go to sea in a dory either:-)
For coastal cruising and occasional bay jumps I would feel safer in a
BWII than a lot of other small boats like a WW Potter for example -
which has made it to Hawaii and up the inside passage to Alaska, one
from England to Denmark (where it crashed).
Nels
> Actually, I think the skipper is more important element than the boatocean
> when determining seaworthiness.
>
> Birdwatcher, with the ability to float on it's side, making it very
> difficult to swamp, is a good thing. The most scary, dangerous,
> moment I have personally experience involved crawling around exposedI expect that if you enquired with the designers they would say no,
> on the foredeck of a sloop at 3AM to handle the jib.
> Birdwatcher, with the ability to do all the sail handling from inside
> the boat, is a good thing.
due to liablility concerns and ye old "clawing off a lee shore
scenario". 2 HP is simply not adequate and the engine could get
severely doused as well.
However I would prefer a BirdwatcherII compared to your average dory.
But then I would not go to sea in a dory either:-)
For coastal cruising and occasional bay jumps I would feel safer in a
BWII than a lot of other small boats like a WW Potter for example -
which has made it to Hawaii and up the inside passage to Alaska, one
from England to Denmark (where it crashed).
Nels
On 9/7/06, Susan Davis <futabachan@...> wrote:
==
Actually, I think the skipper is more important element than the boat
when determining seaworthiness.
Birdwatcher, with the ability to float on it's side, making it very
difficult to swamp, is a good thing. The most scary, dangerous, ocean
moment I have personally experience involved crawling around exposed
on the foredeck of a sloop at 3AM to handle the jib.
Birdwatcher, with the ability to do all the sail handling from inside
the boat, is a good thing.
>Funny Sue. ;)
> > just one question, how would it go on the ocean.
> 5) If the boat doesn't float off, remember to disconnect the tie-down
> straps.
>
> -- Sue --
==
Actually, I think the skipper is more important element than the boat
when determining seaworthiness.
Birdwatcher, with the ability to float on it's side, making it very
difficult to swamp, is a good thing. The most scary, dangerous, ocean
moment I have personally experience involved crawling around exposed
on the foredeck of a sloop at 3AM to handle the jib.
Birdwatcher, with the ability to do all the sail handling from inside
the boat, is a good thing.
"jason barnes" <mootexperience@...> wrote:
2) Back your trailer down the ramp.
3) The boat should automatically float off.
4) Voila! She's on the ocean.
5) If the boat doesn't float off, remember to disconnect the tie-down
straps.
-- Sue --
(ducking and running)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>1) Drive to the ocean.
> Looks great. I'm very interested in building one myself
> just one question, how would it go on the ocean.
2) Back your trailer down the ramp.
3) The boat should automatically float off.
4) Voila! She's on the ocean.
5) If the boat doesn't float off, remember to disconnect the tie-down
straps.
-- Sue --
(ducking and running)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Looks great. I'm very interested in building one myself
just one question, how would it go on the ocean.
just one question, how would it go on the ocean.
That's Fern Ridge Reservoir west of Eugene. It's an excellent sailing lake
and has some places to go exploring in a canoe as well:
http://www.boat-links.com/messabout/Map.gif
http://www.eugeneyachtclub.org/
and has some places to go exploring in a canoe as well:
http://www.boat-links.com/messabout/Map.gif
http://www.eugeneyachtclub.org/
On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:54:54 -0700, Paul L wrote:
> Congratulations Bob! What a gem.
> ...
> That's quite a
> beautiful looking lake you have there too. Is that near Corvalis? We
> might have to make a weekend trip down there with the canoe.
>
--
John <jkohnen@...>
The way to fight a woman is with your hat. Grab it and run. <John
Barrymore>
Congratulations Bob! What a gem.
It's amazing how all those complicated angles at the stern seem to
resolve themselves with a nice coat of white paint. That's quite a
beautiful looking lake you have there too. Is that near Corvalis? We
might have to make a weekend trip down there with the canoe. I just
remembered that the Wooden Boat Festival in Port Townsend is coming up
this weekend. Do you plan to attend? It looks like we might be back to
rain on Friday and Saturday, although Sunday is looking sunny. Can't
wait to see Wave Watcher with her sails "full and bye".
Cheers,
Paul L.
Seattle, WA
It's amazing how all those complicated angles at the stern seem to
resolve themselves with a nice coat of white paint. That's quite a
beautiful looking lake you have there too. Is that near Corvalis? We
might have to make a weekend trip down there with the canoe. I just
remembered that the Wooden Boat Festival in Port Townsend is coming up
this weekend. Do you plan to attend? It looks like we might be back to
rain on Friday and Saturday, although Sunday is looking sunny. Can't
wait to see Wave Watcher with her sails "full and bye".
Cheers,
Paul L.
Seattle, WA
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> Bob Larkin launched his Birdwatcher II today, probably the first true
> Birdwatcher II to touch water. He didn't have her ready to sail, but
she
> performed very well under power and showed promise of rowing well,
when
> she gets some longer and better oars. She's a beauty too! :o) Here
are
> some photos:
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594264491186/
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
> A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought.
> <Lord Peter Wimsey>
>
First, Thanks to John K. for the great pictures and to the whole group
of fine supporters, locally and over the net. Also, in picture 2 of
John's series is my dear wife, Janet, christening Wave Watcher with a
bottle of Full Sail Ale. She has put up with a lot for this project,
always with a smile.
Jon, I rowed using a set of 6-1/2 foot oars, borrowed from my 8-ft
Acorn. The motor was tilted up and I raised the CB (with the CB down,
there is no such thing as turning!). I rowed at a sustainable pace in
the sheltered part of the lake where wind was minimal, and the GPS
showed 1.8 knots. I also do not have the foot braces in yet, so I would
really expect to see 2 knots steady and 2.5 for a burst. I am in decent
shape, but 67, so young kids would do better!
Here's some more data. Bolger added the 2 HP Honda when going from BW
to BW-2. He is adament about nothing bigger, and indeed it would be a
challenge to find room for a bigger motor, without making major
changes. I ran the motor full speed in 4 directions to cancel the wind,
and the average speed was 5.7 kt. It moves very well with the 2 HP! I
set the throttle for a level that would be "pleasant" for long periods,
and it showed 4.5 knots. If the wind was not blowing, and I wanted to
get some where, this would probably be my speed of choice, and the
efficiency should be quite good.
A couple of initial thougts. The CB hoisting needs some changes. I can
get it up and down, but it is one tough pull. The CB weighs 160 lb and
the 4:1 tugging at about a 2-ft lever arm is not enough mechanical
advantage. The boat seems to balance up and sit well as drawn. I have a
12V abattery, six gallons of water and 40 lb of temporary ballast
opposite the mast and off-center-board. The complicated rudder cabling
all worked fine. I use Spectra line for this and moved the turnbuckles
from inside the boat to above the rudder pulley. This linkage needs to
be tight and this was a concern. Trailering looks to be easy, a major
feature for us.
I have the main sail made by Lynn Fabricant, and she is now finishing
the jib. Spars are all built and I am presently getting the mast
rigged, so sailing is not far away. This looks interesting. The 213
square feet of sail looks huge to me!!
This is all great fun, and again thanks to all that have made getting
to this point possible.
Bob Larkin
Corvallis, Oregon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
of fine supporters, locally and over the net. Also, in picture 2 of
John's series is my dear wife, Janet, christening Wave Watcher with a
bottle of Full Sail Ale. She has put up with a lot for this project,
always with a smile.
Jon, I rowed using a set of 6-1/2 foot oars, borrowed from my 8-ft
Acorn. The motor was tilted up and I raised the CB (with the CB down,
there is no such thing as turning!). I rowed at a sustainable pace in
the sheltered part of the lake where wind was minimal, and the GPS
showed 1.8 knots. I also do not have the foot braces in yet, so I would
really expect to see 2 knots steady and 2.5 for a burst. I am in decent
shape, but 67, so young kids would do better!
Here's some more data. Bolger added the 2 HP Honda when going from BW
to BW-2. He is adament about nothing bigger, and indeed it would be a
challenge to find room for a bigger motor, without making major
changes. I ran the motor full speed in 4 directions to cancel the wind,
and the average speed was 5.7 kt. It moves very well with the 2 HP! I
set the throttle for a level that would be "pleasant" for long periods,
and it showed 4.5 knots. If the wind was not blowing, and I wanted to
get some where, this would probably be my speed of choice, and the
efficiency should be quite good.
A couple of initial thougts. The CB hoisting needs some changes. I can
get it up and down, but it is one tough pull. The CB weighs 160 lb and
the 4:1 tugging at about a 2-ft lever arm is not enough mechanical
advantage. The boat seems to balance up and sit well as drawn. I have a
12V abattery, six gallons of water and 40 lb of temporary ballast
opposite the mast and off-center-board. The complicated rudder cabling
all worked fine. I use Spectra line for this and moved the turnbuckles
from inside the boat to above the rudder pulley. This linkage needs to
be tight and this was a concern. Trailering looks to be easy, a major
feature for us.
I have the main sail made by Lynn Fabricant, and she is now finishing
the jib. Spars are all built and I am presently getting the mast
rigged, so sailing is not far away. This looks interesting. The 213
square feet of sail looks huge to me!!
This is all great fun, and again thanks to all that have made getting
to this point possible.
Bob Larkin
Corvallis, Oregon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "adventures_in_astrophotography"
<jon@...> wrote:
> Was she being rowed with the motor in the run position?
>
> Jon Kolb
> www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
>
Hi John,
she being rowed with the motor in the run position?
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> Bob Larkin launched his Birdwatcher II today, probably the first trueshe
> Birdwatcher II to touch water. He didn't have her ready to sail, but
> performed very well under power and showed promise of rowing well,when
> she gets some longer and better oars. She's a beauty too! :o) Here areWow, that's a beauty! Fit and finish look absolutely first rate. Was
> some photos:
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594264491186/
she being rowed with the motor in the run position?
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
to the original plans yet! Well done!
David
>ALLRIGHT!! Bob did an amazing job, and like you said, probably closest
> Bob Larkin launched his Birdwatcher II today, probably the first true
> Birdwatcher II to touch water.
to the original plans yet! Well done!
David
Lovely, lovely, lovely. Great job, Bob. Thanks for the pics, John,
Gary
Gary
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> Bob Larkin launched his Birdwatcher II today, probably the first true
> Birdwatcher II to touch water. He didn't have her ready to sail, but
she
> performed very well under power and showed promise of rowing well,
when
> she gets some longer and better oars. She's a beauty too! :o) Here are
> some photos:
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594264491186/
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
> A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought.
> <Lord Peter Wimsey>
>
Bob Larkin launched his Birdwatcher II today, probably the first true
Birdwatcher II to touch water. He didn't have her ready to sail, but she
performed very well under power and showed promise of rowing well, when
she gets some longer and better oars. She's a beauty too! :o) Here are
some photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594264491186/
--
John <jkohnen@...>
A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought.
<Lord Peter Wimsey>
Birdwatcher II to touch water. He didn't have her ready to sail, but she
performed very well under power and showed promise of rowing well, when
she gets some longer and better oars. She's a beauty too! :o) Here are
some photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594264491186/
--
John <jkohnen@...>
A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought.
<Lord Peter Wimsey>