Re: [bolger] Re: Sail Rig

You can get sailcut from Carlson's website

http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Professional_Shareware

HJ

Steven DAntonio wrote:
> Hi Dennis,
>
> Have you considered a program called "saitcut" (it's free). You can
> design your own said there, make a prototype out of polytarp for a few
> dollars and then refine the design.
>
> Jim Michalak has several articles about designing,cutting and sewing
> your own sail from polytarp. From talking to others who have gone
> this rout they seem to last about 3 to 5 years if handled properly and
> their mot effected by UV like dacron. Their just not as decorative as
> the professionally made ones.
>
>http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/michalak/2005.htm
>
> I've also been told that tyvek works well for this too, but, like
> dacron, it is effected by UV.
>
> Polytarp is sewable on any decent machine with a zig-zag stitch (so
> the wife tells me), using sailmakers thread from duckworks or some
> other outlet.
>
> Steven
>
>
>
Hi Dennis,

Have you considered a program called "saitcut" (it's free). You can
design your own said there, make a prototype out of polytarp for a few
dollars and then refine the design.

Jim Michalak has several articles about designing,cutting and sewing
your own sail from polytarp. From talking to others who have gone
this rout they seem to last about 3 to 5 years if handled properly and
their mot effected by UV like dacron. Their just not as decorative as
the professionally made ones.

http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/michalak/2005.htm

I've also been told that tyvek works well for this too, but, like
dacron, it is effected by UV.

Polytarp is sewable on any decent machine with a zig-zag stitch (so
the wife tells me), using sailmakers thread from duckworks or some
other outlet.

Steven


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "lancasterdennis" <dlancast@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@> wrote:
> >
> Thank you Derek,
>
> That certainly clears the muddy waters with me. Yes, I have
> contacted NorthWest Sails in Port Townsend and they have been very
> kind and helpful. A bit steep on their pricing, but I believe they
> carry a good reputation. We will be visitng their loft in November.
> I have also contacted Sailrite and have had an excellent response and
> very fair quote for building the sails for me. I have had one
> unpleasent experience from a loft back East of which I won't mention
> a name, as it would serve no purpose, just could have been a
> misunderstanding.
>
> One question has surfaced that I'm not clear on: one sailmaker states
> that the main should not be cut flat, another says it should. Who is
> right?
>
> Regards,
>
> Dennis
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Tribulato" <scsbmsjoe@...> wrote:
>



Hi Joe,

Thanks for that input, I will pass it on to whoever I decide to go
with. Who was your sail maker, if I can ask? Sailrite has sure been
great to work with and so has Duckworks, Chuck has been more than
helpful and their prices beat them all! I was reminded that I'm not
building a racing machine. I just need good sails that will last.

Regards,

Dennis
Bellingham, WA
> The mizzen should be cut with no more fullness than can be tensioned
> out. The mizzen on my Oldshoe was too full and could not be
flattened
> by tension on the sprit boom. Go with a sailmaker who really knows
> these things. I made a poor choice.
>
> Joe T
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Dennis
> >
> > The main should absolutely NOT be cut flat. These boats will
likely
> benefit
> > from a main sail cut with a bit _more_ draft than would be usual
on
> a sloop
> > main. Unless there's a misunderstanding here, I'd back away from
the
> maker
> > who offered a flat main. The foot of both sails should be cut
uncommonly
> > straight, since the foot acts as a vang, but that's a different
> matter, eh?
> >
> > On the other hand, there is a school of thought which says that
> since the
> > mizzen offers little drive, it can usefully be cut flat. It's not
a
> school I
> > personally subscribe to :) The snotter will flatten out the sail
at
> need.
> >
> > cheers
> > Derek
> >
>
The best place to get "traditional" sails (and that includes sprit boomed
leg o' muttons) made is Carol Hasse's Port Townsend Sails -- but you pay a
lot for the best:

http://www.porttownsendsails.com/

My local sailmaker is experienced with traditional sails and loves to get
a break from making and repairing sails for the racers on our local
mudhole. She's only about 400 miles south of you:

Lynn Fabricant
541-338-9877
rlf@...

Don't consider any sailmaker who isn't familiar with traditional sails!
Even if they have a good reputation for modern style sails that doesn't
mean they know a thing about sprit boomed leg o' muttons. One of our local
boat nuts ordered a spritsail from North, or was it Hood? Anyway, the sail
was a complete mess and he had to have Lynn redo it.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 23:01:48 -0700, Derek wrote:

> ...
> You're in the PNW, eh? Perhaps someone around Port Townsend would be
> familiar with the requirements of this type of sail. The cut and
> construction are significantly different from other triangular sails.
> ...

--
John <jkohnen@...>
One of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen
these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding
fathers used in the great struggle for independence. <Charles A. Beard>
The mizzen should be cut with no more fullness than can be tensioned
out. The mizzen on my Oldshoe was too full and could not be flattened
by tension on the sprit boom. Go with a sailmaker who really knows
these things. I made a poor choice.

Joe T

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Dennis
>
> The main should absolutely NOT be cut flat. These boats will likely
benefit
> from a main sail cut with a bit _more_ draft than would be usual on
a sloop
> main. Unless there's a misunderstanding here, I'd back away from the
maker
> who offered a flat main. The foot of both sails should be cut uncommonly
> straight, since the foot acts as a vang, but that's a different
matter, eh?
>
> On the other hand, there is a school of thought which says that
since the
> mizzen offers little drive, it can usefully be cut flat. It's not a
school I
> personally subscribe to :) The snotter will flatten out the sail at
need.
>
> cheers
> Derek
>
Hi Dennis

The main should absolutely NOT be cut flat. These boats will likely benefit
from a main sail cut with a bit _more_ draft than would be usual on a sloop
main. Unless there's a misunderstanding here, I'd back away from the maker
who offered a flat main. The foot of both sails should be cut uncommonly
straight, since the foot acts as a vang, but that's a different matter, eh?

On the other hand, there is a school of thought which says that since the
mizzen offers little drive, it can usefully be cut flat. It's not a school I
personally subscribe to :) The snotter will flatten out the sail at need.

cheers
Derek
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Derek Waters" <dgw@...> wrote:
>
Thank you Derek,

That certainly clears the muddy waters with me. Yes, I have
contacted NorthWest Sails in Port Townsend and they have been very
kind and helpful. A bit steep on their pricing, but I believe they
carry a good reputation. We will be visitng their loft in November.
I have also contacted Sailrite and have had an excellent response and
very fair quote for building the sails for me. I have had one
unpleasent experience from a loft back East of which I won't mention
a name, as it would serve no purpose, just could have been a
misunderstanding.

One question has surfaced that I'm not clear on: one sailmaker states
that the main should not be cut flat, another says it should. Who is
right?

Regards,

Dennis


> Hi Dennis
>
> FWIW, I think you're wise to be leery of sailmakers who won't
discuss things
> like mast bend. That said, they may be working to a set of
assumptions based
> on prior experience with similar setups.
>
> As normally configured those boats are rigged as cat yawls, both
main and
> mizzen being sprit boomed 'leg of mutton' sails. Emphatically not
> spritsails - that's a different [four sided] sail.
>
> 'Cat' because the main is stepped well forward and to differentiate
the rig
> from a sloop which would have a jib or staysail set forward of the
main
> [let's not get into cat-sloops :) ]
>
> 'Yawl' because the cat's boom is docked for easier handling and
some of the
> area lost replaced by a small sail used for trim rather than for
drive. By
> Bolger's definition, a yawl rather than a ketch primarily because
of this
> trim versus drive distinction.
>
> You're in the PNW, eh? Perhaps someone around Port Townsend would be
> familiar with the requirements of this type of sail. The cut and
> construction are significantly different from other triangular
sails.
>
> I've been happy with sails I built from kits cut by the folk at
SailRite,
> and Chuck at Duckworks has an arrangement with a sailmaker. Chuck
is 'good
> people'.
>
> If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend checking Emiliano
Marino's
> 'Sailmaker's Apprentice' out of your local library and having a
good read to
> arm yourself for the fray.
>
> cheers
> Derek
>
Hi Dennis

FWIW, I think you're wise to be leery of sailmakers who won't discuss things
like mast bend. That said, they may be working to a set of assumptions based
on prior experience with similar setups.

As normally configured those boats are rigged as cat yawls, both main and
mizzen being sprit boomed 'leg of mutton' sails. Emphatically not
spritsails - that's a different [four sided] sail.

'Cat' because the main is stepped well forward and to differentiate the rig
from a sloop which would have a jib or staysail set forward of the main
[let's not get into cat-sloops :) ]

'Yawl' because the cat's boom is docked for easier handling and some of the
area lost replaced by a small sail used for trim rather than for drive. By
Bolger's definition, a yawl rather than a ketch primarily because of this
trim versus drive distinction.

You're in the PNW, eh? Perhaps someone around Port Townsend would be
familiar with the requirements of this type of sail. The cut and
construction are significantly different from other triangular sails.

I've been happy with sails I built from kits cut by the folk at SailRite,
and Chuck at Duckworks has an arrangement with a sailmaker. Chuck is 'good
people'.

If you haven't already done so, I'd recommend checking Emiliano Marino's
'Sailmaker's Apprentice' out of your local library and having a good read to
arm yourself for the fray.

cheers
Derek
Hi Folks,

Can anybody tell me what type of sail configuration or rig the Micro
and Old Shoe have? Are they rigged "Cat Yawl" or Sprit Boom sails
or Sprit sail Yawl or what?

I'm new to this sail design and handling charactoristics and I am
sure that when the time comes to splash my Old Shoe sometime next
summer, I am going to need some expert advice on how to sail her.

I am also looking for a good sail loft to build my new sails and as
I do that search, I am finding out things like: I need to know the
degree of mast bend before the sail can be built, but some
sailmakers don't even ask that question and seems like a reasonable
one to me.

Any help from those that have done that and been there would be much
appreciated.

Regards,

Dennis
Bellingham, WA