Re: Borrowing / Lending / Sharing / Copying / Copyright
--- Randy Hough <randy.hough@...> wrote:
BTW, I was - as a starting point - talking about books that are not on
sale anymore, and where they have no intention to print them again.
If I take a book from a library, scan it for my friend who can't come
to the library, and send the scan to him?
a) the printed work is still on sale
b) the music is not available in libraries
Books and articles in old magazines are different.
Stefan
>Well, the one who scans his books/magazines paid for his copy, too.
> The difference is that the library purchased the book.
> The publisher and author were paid.
BTW, I was - as a starting point - talking about books that are not on
sale anymore, and where they have no intention to print them again.
If I take a book from a library, scan it for my friend who can't come
to the library, and send the scan to him?
> I would be more than happy to pay the non-production costAgreed.
> of a book to be able to download it on-line.
> Production costs being printing, binding, warehousing, and shipping.
> Scanning and posting printed work on the net is the sameOnly, if
> as sharing music or video files. Think Napster.
a) the printed work is still on sale
b) the music is not available in libraries
Books and articles in old magazines are different.
Stefan
Clearly, we are allowed to reprint reasonable amounts of the
copyrighted material for the nonprofit purpose of studying and
critiquing the designs for educational and research purposes.
Photocopying a whole plan set and reselling? That is not allowed.
copyrighted material for the nonprofit purpose of studying and
critiquing the designs for educational and research purposes.
Photocopying a whole plan set and reselling? That is not allowed.
For instance, John Atkin bought back the rights to the Atkin plans
published in MoToR BoatinG from Hearst Publishing about 25 years ago --
after a nasty fight. He couldn't sell hundreds of plans by his father and
himself otherwise even though the magazine was dead and the plans were no
longer available from Hearst! MoToR BoatinG is long defunct, but I don't
think Hearst is...
published in MoToR BoatinG from Hearst Publishing about 25 years ago --
after a nasty fight. He couldn't sell hundreds of plans by his father and
himself otherwise even though the magazine was dead and the plans were no
longer available from Hearst! MoToR BoatinG is long defunct, but I don't
think Hearst is...
On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 03:41:00 -0800, COD wrote:
> Too long a discussion; copyright is a moving target these days and nor
> necessarily trending in favor of the public.
> ...
> With old pubs like Rudder from the 30s or MotorBoating, say from the 50s,
> the chances are that no one is going to come forward to enforce a
> copyright, since so many of those mags went under. But in the technical
> sense, if someone bought the assets of a bankrupt mag, they still own the
> copyrights.
--
John <jkohnen@...>
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. <Bertrand
Russell>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "proaconstrictor"
<proaconstrictor@...> wrote:
publisher of an old publication? The originator may have a view, but
no rights other than moral should they exist in the relevant
jurisdiction.
work that was copied.
passed to another, or to the public domain.
Presumably, if the designer had withdrawn them that would have been
by public notice in the relevant or similar publication. These
safety concerns could be seen to uphold a right to copy for purposes
of critique, study, education, and news.
Graeme
<proaconstrictor@...> wrote:
> I can see three or four ways where he is hurt:Yes, but what of the case where the copyright was passed to the
> 1) he may unrealistically believe his work is still viable, hasn't
>let go, but who is the poster of this work to claim a better
>vantage on that question than the person who was once viable in the
>business.
publisher of an old publication? The originator may have a view, but
no rights other than moral should they exist in the relevant
jurisdiction.
> 2) Maybe new work by him would be less viable if free earlyThe question of infringement would pertain only to the particular
>versions are heavily circulated
work that was copied.
> 3) Reputationally he may not feel he wants old work out there ifA good reason to keep copyright. A moot point if the copyright has
>it doesn't represent his current work.
passed to another, or to the public domain.
> 4) He may not want any of the liability, or support requests thatDitto.
> will arise if people use his work.
> Someday, someone is going to build a boat from online outed plansIt could be seen to be harmful in some ways, but not legally so.
>and get themselves killed, and their estate is going to have to
>consider whether to go after the designer who had withdrawn them
>from circulation or the good samaritan who had posted them for
>general use. Would the designer at least have the course to sue
>for keep of his liability insurance.
>
> I'm not really saying there is serious heat behind these concerns,
>but if one is asking about the rights and wrongs of it, these could
>be ways in which the action would be harmful.
Presumably, if the designer had withdrawn them that would have been
by public notice in the relevant or similar publication. These
safety concerns could be seen to uphold a right to copy for purposes
of critique, study, education, and news.
Graeme
>I can see three or four ways where he is hurt:
> The question is in this case the author.
> Again: Whether you re-publish in the Internet or not, makes no
> difference to him: Since the original is not sold anmyore, he does not
> loose income. If you publish for free in the Internet, you don't use
> his work to make money for yourself.
1) he may unrealistically believe his work is still viable, hasn't let
go, but who is the poster of this work to claim a better vantage on
that question than the person who was once viable in the business.
2) Maybe new work by him would be less viable if free early versions
are heavily circulated
3) Reputationally he may not feel he wants old work out there if it
doesn't represent his current work.
4) He may not want any of the liability, or support requests that will
arise if people use his work.
Someday, someone is going to build a boat from online outed plans and
get themselves killed, and their estate is going to have to consider
whether to go after the designer who had withdrawn them from
circulation or the good samaritan who had posted them for general use.
Would the designer at least have the course to sue for keep of his
liability insurance.
I'm not really saying there is serious heat behind these concerns, but
if one is asking about the rights and wrongs of it, these could be ways
in which the action would be harmful.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
If you re-publish an old article in the Internet, of an article (in
magazine or book) that is not sold anymore, where the original
printing house is pretty much unlikely to print it again, then there
is no damage done to that printing house.
The question is in this case the author.
Again: Whether you re-publish in the Internet or not, makes no
difference to him: Since the original is not sold anmyore, he does not
loose income. If you publish for free in the Internet, you don't use
his work to make money for yourself.
Bottom line: In such cases to re-publish in the Internet should be
"fair use". If you want to be on the safe side: Ask the publisher,
whether he intends to print a new issue within reasonable time. If
not: it's your game.
My 2 cents,
Stefan
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use"Fair Use" takes real or potential damage to the author into account.
If you re-publish an old article in the Internet, of an article (in
magazine or book) that is not sold anymore, where the original
printing house is pretty much unlikely to print it again, then there
is no damage done to that printing house.
The question is in this case the author.
Again: Whether you re-publish in the Internet or not, makes no
difference to him: Since the original is not sold anmyore, he does not
loose income. If you publish for free in the Internet, you don't use
his work to make money for yourself.
Bottom line: In such cases to re-publish in the Internet should be
"fair use". If you want to be on the safe side: Ask the publisher,
whether he intends to print a new issue within reasonable time. If
not: it's your game.
My 2 cents,
Stefan
Here, there is a finite time limit on copyright before it falls in
the public domain. It's probably only a matter of time however
before the "Disney" rollback issues are raised, but they aren't on
the radar as yet.There's fairly similar rules for fair dealing -
lending an original would be ok; copying for educational, personal,
&etc use is subject to a 10% limit without the copyright holder's
permission.
I think a lot of periodicals like newspapers and journals are
considered more or less public domain at lower thresholds. All these
old publications would be archived somewhere in private or public
collections, for example every publication including periodicals
must be, by law, archived in the relevant State or Commonwealth
library. Most of these archives are slowly being transferred from
microfiche to digital. Searches should be easier.
If an article in a periodical accounts for less than 10% of that
publication then, it occurs to me, that the article should be able
to be copied in its entireity and distributed for personal and/or
educational use without infringing copyright.
A bit of time in the right library might yeild a disk or two of old
PCB content that would be allowable to circulate. Perhaps it might
have to be made available free, or at cost recovery?
the public domain. It's probably only a matter of time however
before the "Disney" rollback issues are raised, but they aren't on
the radar as yet.There's fairly similar rules for fair dealing -
lending an original would be ok; copying for educational, personal,
&etc use is subject to a 10% limit without the copyright holder's
permission.
I think a lot of periodicals like newspapers and journals are
considered more or less public domain at lower thresholds. All these
old publications would be archived somewhere in private or public
collections, for example every publication including periodicals
must be, by law, archived in the relevant State or Commonwealth
library. Most of these archives are slowly being transferred from
microfiche to digital. Searches should be easier.
If an article in a periodical accounts for less than 10% of that
publication then, it occurs to me, that the article should be able
to be copied in its entireity and distributed for personal and/or
educational use without infringing copyright.
A bit of time in the right library might yeild a disk or two of old
PCB content that would be allowable to circulate. Perhaps it might
have to be made available free, or at cost recovery?
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, craig o'donnell <dadadata@...> wrote:
>
> Too long a discussion; copyright is a moving target these days and
> nornecessarily trending in favor of the public.
> -- for re-publishing, rule of thumb, 75-100 years, unless the
>copyright holder releases the material. Exception: stuff before
>about 1985, publishedin the USA, that does not have a copyright
>notice; stuff published by the US Gov't.Copying something for
>personal use is OK, lending something, is OK.
>
> With old pubs like Rudder from the 30s or MotorBoating, say from
>the 50s, the chances are that no one is going to come forward to
>enforce a copyright, since so many of those mags went under. But in
>the technical sense, if someone bought the assets of a bankrupt
>mag, they still own the copyrights.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/sets/72157594360723903/
See for pictures of a paper model of Bolger's Open Water Utility.
See for pictures of a paper model of Bolger's Open Water Utility.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
some of the other members actually stimulates the interest in Bolger's
work and adds to broaden the knowledge of his genius.
Personally I try to share enough info to get the juices flowing and
not enough to give others free plans.
Nels
>I also believe "intention" plays a part as well. The work of Bruce and
>
> Copyright is complex. In general, it prohibits commercial use, but
> encourages 'fair use/fair dealing' such as for educational purposes,
> study and is also more toleratant of non-profit uses and uses
> involving research and study; review and critique; news reportage.
>
some of the other members actually stimulates the interest in Bolger's
work and adds to broaden the knowledge of his genius.
Personally I try to share enough info to get the juices flowing and
not enough to give others free plans.
Nels
On 11/3/06, graeme19121984 wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
Just to be clear, my intentions with borrowing is to allow me to study
the material, not to viloate any copyright.
Copyright is complex. In general, it prohibits commercial use, but
encourages 'fair use/fair dealing' such as for educational purposes,
study and is also more toleratant of non-profit uses and uses
involving research and study; review and critique; news reportage.
>For a good summary of copyright see:
> >looking to borrow MAIB's from 1992, 1993, and early
> > 1994
>
> How long does copyright last for content in old periodicals?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
Just to be clear, my intentions with borrowing is to allow me to study
the material, not to viloate any copyright.
Copyright is complex. In general, it prohibits commercial use, but
encourages 'fair use/fair dealing' such as for educational purposes,
study and is also more toleratant of non-profit uses and uses
involving research and study; review and critique; news reportage.
>(From - Re: High mileage all weather commuter?)Too long a discussion; copyright is a moving target these days and nor
>>looking to borrow MAIB's from 1992, 1993, and early
>> 1994
>
>How long does copyright last for content in old periodicals? For
>instance the publications such as Nautical Quarterly, Small Boat
>Journal, Motorboating, old Boatbuilder, old National Fisherman and so
>on that PCB has contributed to. Can this content be digitally copied
>and passed around?
>
>Cheers
>Graeme
necessarily trending in favor of the public.
-- for re-publishing, rule of thumb, 75-100 years, unless the copyright
holder releases the material. Exception: stuff before about 1985, published
in the USA, that does not have a copyright notice; stuff published by the
US Gov't.
Copying something for personal use is OK, lending something, is OK.
With old pubs like Rudder from the 30s or MotorBoating, say from the 50s,
the chances are that no one is going to come forward to enforce a
copyright, since so many of those mags went under. But in the technical
sense, if someone bought the assets of a bankrupt mag, they still own the
copyrights.
--
Craig O'Donnell
Sinepuxent Ancestors & Boats
<http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~fassitt/>
The Proa FAQ <http://boat-links.com/proafaq.html>
The Cheap Pages <http://www.friend.ly.net/~dadadata/>
Sailing Canoes, Polytarp Sails, Bamboo, Chinese Junks,
American Proas, the Bolger Boat Honor Roll,
Plywood Boats, Bamboo Rafts, &c.
_________________________________
-- Professor of Boatology -- Junkomologist
-- Macintosh kinda guy
Friend of Wanda the Wonder Cat, 1991-1997.
_________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(From - Re: High mileage all weather commuter?)
instance the publications such as Nautical Quarterly, Small Boat
Journal, Motorboating, old Boatbuilder, old National Fisherman and so
on that PCB has contributed to. Can this content be digitally copied
and passed around?
Cheers
Graeme
>looking to borrow MAIB's from 1992, 1993, and earlyHow long does copyright last for content in old periodicals? For
> 1994
instance the publications such as Nautical Quarterly, Small Boat
Journal, Motorboating, old Boatbuilder, old National Fisherman and so
on that PCB has contributed to. Can this content be digitally copied
and passed around?
Cheers
Graeme
On 11/1/06, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
By the way, I am looking to borrow MAIB's from 1992, 1993, and early
1994 to be returned promptly. If anybody has these issues in their
collection, please contact me off list.
>Volume 12 Issue 2, from 1994
>
> Bruce
>
> What MAIB was this from?
>
> HJ
By the way, I am looking to borrow MAIB's from 1992, 1993, and early
1994 to be returned promptly. If anybody has these issues in their
collection, please contact me off list.
Bruce
What MAIB was this from?
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
What MAIB was this from?
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> This has been nagging my memory for a few days, and of course now I remember,
>
> Bolger designed exactly this boat. See design #566 "Commuter"
>
> She looks easy and cheap to build with plywood, with the addition of
> some strip planking to make the hollow entry lines at the bow. Fast,
> safe, dry, all-weather and economical.
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566lines.png
>http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566article.png
>
> and the Freeship file
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566.fbm
>
>
>
Thank you!
That is almost exactly what I had in my mind's eye.
I like the look almost as much as the Sneakeasy and there is no doubt which
boat would be a better choice for semi-open water.
Thanks again ... off do some searching!
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:01 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: High mileage all weather commuter?
This has been nagging my memory for a few days, and of course now I
remember,
Bolger designed exactly this boat. See design #566 "Commuter"
She looks easy and cheap to build with plywood, with the addition of
some strip planking to make the hollow entry lines at the bow. Fast,
safe, dry, all-weather and economical.
http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566lines.png
http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566article.png
and the Freeship file
http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566.fbm
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/509 - Release Date: 10/31/2006
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That is almost exactly what I had in my mind's eye.
I like the look almost as much as the Sneakeasy and there is no doubt which
boat would be a better choice for semi-open water.
Thanks again ... off do some searching!
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Bruce Hallman
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:01 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: High mileage all weather commuter?
This has been nagging my memory for a few days, and of course now I
remember,
Bolger designed exactly this boat. See design #566 "Commuter"
She looks easy and cheap to build with plywood, with the addition of
some strip planking to make the hollow entry lines at the bow. Fast,
safe, dry, all-weather and economical.
http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566lines.png
http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566article.png
and the Freeship file
http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566.fbm
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/509 - Release Date: 10/31/2006
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This has been nagging my memory for a few days, and of course now I remember,
Bolger designed exactly this boat. See design #566 "Commuter"
She looks easy and cheap to build with plywood, with the addition of
some strip planking to make the hollow entry lines at the bow. Fast,
safe, dry, all-weather and economical.
http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566lines.png
http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566article.png
and the Freeship file
http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566.fbm
Bolger designed exactly this boat. See design #566 "Commuter"
She looks easy and cheap to build with plywood, with the addition of
some strip planking to make the hollow entry lines at the bow. Fast,
safe, dry, all-weather and economical.
http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566lines.png
http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566article.png
and the Freeship file
http://hallman.org/bolger/566/566.fbm
I think Joe T is on the money. Dorado is light, fast, and will
handle the range of conditions I perceive you could possibly see in a
commute as described. A good hard covered fore hatch instead of the
slot, and a pilot house for seated steering and you've got a fast
commuter w' even 25 hp for one person.
Yep, I'd build Dorado, and wouldn't worry 'bout a boxkeel. Just
build the multi-chine hull as designed, and build some light
superstructure for weather protection w/o adding unecessary windage.
If you're just dying for a box keel, build a Microtrawler hull,
decked over as a runabout adding a covered steering area, to keep the
profile low like Dorado. IMO the Microtrawler hull is easier to
build than the Hawkeye, though the Hawkeye builds up a bit lighter.
Don Schultz
handle the range of conditions I perceive you could possibly see in a
commute as described. A good hard covered fore hatch instead of the
slot, and a pilot house for seated steering and you've got a fast
commuter w' even 25 hp for one person.
Yep, I'd build Dorado, and wouldn't worry 'bout a boxkeel. Just
build the multi-chine hull as designed, and build some light
superstructure for weather protection w/o adding unecessary windage.
If you're just dying for a box keel, build a Microtrawler hull,
decked over as a runabout adding a covered steering area, to keep the
profile low like Dorado. IMO the Microtrawler hull is easier to
build than the Hawkeye, though the Hawkeye builds up a bit lighter.
Don Schultz
>http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/dorado/index.htm
> > However, I can't resist my sugestion. Look at
> > Michalak's Dorado:
> >
> > The hull looks to be ideal for your needs but would
> > need a steering
> > shelter. Maybe Jim could add that change for you.
> >
> > Joe T
On Saturday 28 October 2006 08:30, graeme19121984 wrote:
references to the Flying Splinter and the flooding tunnel hull?
Sincerely,
Kenneth Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> A sailing club rescue boat I've used was a RIB with the HuntThis is interesting but I don't have the books. Do you know of any online
> flooding/draining keel tunnel like Bolger mentions for Flying
> Splinter. Excellent performance under way, but also very
> stable as the tunnel flooded after stopping.
references to the Flying Splinter and the flooding tunnel hull?
Sincerely,
Kenneth Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
On Friday 27 October 2006 21:46, Kristine Bennett wrote:
When the waves are up I can move a lot faster in a 30 footer than a 15 footer
using the same HP. The longer hull of a 30' boat bridges the wave crests and
allows me to continue to run at planing speeds, whereas the shorter hull of
the 15' boat will force me to slow down and run at semi-planing or maybe even
displacement speeds.
I would think that a commuter should have as one of its primary goals the
ability to keep moving at relatively high speed in nearly all conditions,
thus my suggestion for Slicer (with a small weather enclosure).
Sincerely,
Kenneth Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> For speed it all comes down to one thing Lbs over HPAssuming all else is equal this may be true, but ...
> when dealing with a planing hull form. The lighter the
> boat is the faster it will be for a given HP.
When the waves are up I can move a lot faster in a 30 footer than a 15 footer
using the same HP. The longer hull of a 30' boat bridges the wave crests and
allows me to continue to run at planing speeds, whereas the shorter hull of
the 15' boat will force me to slow down and run at semi-planing or maybe even
displacement speeds.
I would think that a commuter should have as one of its primary goals the
ability to keep moving at relatively high speed in nearly all conditions,
thus my suggestion for Slicer (with a small weather enclosure).
Sincerely,
Kenneth Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> > > Randy, you may want to consider Slicer,I would think so. Bolger says he thinks of it as a 15' skiff with a 15'
>
> I also like Slicer. I have imagined that she could be fitted with
> hinges borrowed from the Folding Schooner design, to fold up and ride
> on a trailer too.
fairing on the front. It would probably be easy to hinge it in the middle and
fold the front on top of the back. Is this the way the Folding Schooner is
done?
Sincerely,
Kenneth Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
Krissie,
a lot of Bolgerados will be in sympathy with your thoughts on this.
I am. If you take the time there is a lot in the files and photos
sections of the various bolgergroups as you have probably seen, and
you will come across many sites to bookmark, thanks to the many who
have contributed to the Bolgerverse. I've not that long ago finally
obtained the most necessary (I think) 5 of the 7 actual Bolger
design books. Yippee! There's others like Payson's and the books
that PCB has been influenced by and cites from time to time - quite
a few really, and all good books too, I think.
Then there are the periodicals going back a long time, and here
access does become a real challenge. And that altogether would
still only cover a fraction of PCB's designs, and his thoughts on
things that have been put on paper.
In a way it's kinda good to only have this drip feeding of Bolger's
stuff as one is always hungry for more and anticipating the next
discovery. It seems to lift the interest levels, hopefully not to a
distressing level as it maybe somewhat erratic. But if there was
that catalogue of collected works, I'd rush to it in a flash. I
don't know how it was that I never came across the work of Phil
Bolger years ago, and even now I don't really understand why he is
not fantastically well known in the wider community. More puzzles
for wishing solved. More things to wish learned. More boats!
Cheers
Graeme
a lot of Bolgerados will be in sympathy with your thoughts on this.
I am. If you take the time there is a lot in the files and photos
sections of the various bolgergroups as you have probably seen, and
you will come across many sites to bookmark, thanks to the many who
have contributed to the Bolgerverse. I've not that long ago finally
obtained the most necessary (I think) 5 of the 7 actual Bolger
design books. Yippee! There's others like Payson's and the books
that PCB has been influenced by and cites from time to time - quite
a few really, and all good books too, I think.
Then there are the periodicals going back a long time, and here
access does become a real challenge. And that altogether would
still only cover a fraction of PCB's designs, and his thoughts on
things that have been put on paper.
In a way it's kinda good to only have this drip feeding of Bolger's
stuff as one is always hungry for more and anticipating the next
discovery. It seems to lift the interest levels, hopefully not to a
distressing level as it maybe somewhat erratic. But if there was
that catalogue of collected works, I'd rush to it in a flash. I
don't know how it was that I never came across the work of Phil
Bolger years ago, and even now I don't really understand why he is
not fantastically well known in the wider community. More puzzles
for wishing solved. More things to wish learned. More boats!
Cheers
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> I have been looking at a number of boats to think
> about building and with so many choices it's hard to
> settle on just one!
>
> I like the ride of a Catamaran, they also tend to be
> faster for a given HP, then a monohull. About the only
> power catamaran that PCB has is the Fishcat. Or am I
> wrong?
>
> I do eveny you guys that pull these Bolger designs out
> of thin air that I have not seen and didn't know were
> there! I do wish there was a catalog with photos or
> drawings of all the boats he as put on paper.
I have been looking at a number of boats to think
about building and with so many choices it's hard to
settle on just one!
I like the ride of a Catamaran, they also tend to be
faster for a given HP, then a monohull. About the only
power catamaran that PCB has is the Fishcat. Or am I
wrong?
I do eveny you guys that pull these Bolger designs out
of thin air that I have not seen and didn't know were
there! I do wish there was a catalog with photos or
drawings of all the boats he as put on paper.
If Phil crossed the Fast Motorsailer (BWAOM pg. 324)
and the Hawkeye (BWAOM pg. 77) and kept the box keel
and the size of the Hawkeye you would have a good boat
for just about anywhere the water is over 3 feet deep.
But he has not done that so I keep looking at the
Dorado and wonder how hard it would be to add a box
keel to her? Or would you want to? I know for beaching
I would want more of a keel under her.
Blessings All
Krissie
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business
(http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com)
about building and with so many choices it's hard to
settle on just one!
I like the ride of a Catamaran, they also tend to be
faster for a given HP, then a monohull. About the only
power catamaran that PCB has is the Fishcat. Or am I
wrong?
I do eveny you guys that pull these Bolger designs out
of thin air that I have not seen and didn't know were
there! I do wish there was a catalog with photos or
drawings of all the boats he as put on paper.
If Phil crossed the Fast Motorsailer (BWAOM pg. 324)
and the Hawkeye (BWAOM pg. 77) and kept the box keel
and the size of the Hawkeye you would have a good boat
for just about anywhere the water is over 3 feet deep.
But he has not done that so I keep looking at the
Dorado and wonder how hard it would be to add a box
keel to her? Or would you want to? I know for beaching
I would want more of a keel under her.
Blessings All
Krissie
> However, I can't resist my sugestion. Look athttp://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/dorado/index.htm
> Michalak's Dorado:
>
> The hull looks to be ideal for your needs but would____________________________________________________________________________________
> need a steering
> shelter. Maybe Jim could add that change for you.
>
> Joe T
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business
(http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com)
Randy
Your best bet would be to mail or fax bolger with your inquiry. Give
him info on your needs, skills, usage, location, etc.
However, I can't resist my sugestion. Look at Michalak's Dorado:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/dorado/index.htm
The hull looks to be ideal for your needs but would need a steering
shelter. Maybe Jim could add that change for you.
Joe T
Your best bet would be to mail or fax bolger with your inquiry. Give
him info on your needs, skills, usage, location, etc.
However, I can't resist my sugestion. Look at Michalak's Dorado:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/dorado/index.htm
The hull looks to be ideal for your needs but would need a steering
shelter. Maybe Jim could add that change for you.
Joe T
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hough <randy.hough@...> wrote:
>
> What a great group!
>
> I've been lurking for awhile and looking through the archives and
files. It
> seems that Phil Bolger has a design for almost everyone! I love the
passion
> for boats that is shown in every post.
>
> I have a chance to commute to work on the water. The distance is
about 8 nm
> each way.
>
> I'm looking for a fuel efficient boat that will cruise at 15-20
knots. That
> speed will keep the commute time at about 30 minutes, which is
better than I
> can manage in a car during rush hours.
>
> I like the looks of the Sneakeasy, but I wonder about adding an enclosed
> steering station for the 6 months of rain we get up here. :) I'd
also like
> to hear how the boat handles in less than calm water.
>
> The Hawkeye looks pretty good too. I'd like to read more on the handling
> characteristics of the "step sharpie" hull form. The cabin looks
warm and
> cozy, that would be a plus when the temp is 2-8C. :)
>
> I think I should be able to do this on 25HP or less.
>
> 25HP should be about 1.66 gal/hr? At 20 knot cruise, that works out
to about
> 12 NM per gallon?
>
> Is it possible? Can I do better?
>
> What boat would you pick?
>
> Thanks for any advice,
>
> Randy
>
> there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing
as simply
> messing about in boats.
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.14/501 - Release Date:
10/26/2006
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
Fishcat shared much in common. That is, apart from originating in
the same designer's mind. Yet it seems that mind was envisioning how
a shared problem might be dealt with, and as ever seeing flowing
fluids.
Re Open Water Utility #488 - MAIB 1999.
PB&F referring to an earlier MAIB write-up on the 'Shivaree model'
(#518, #648) in the 'Open Water Utility' MAIB article Bruce
posted: "The photos with that article showed how this shape, with
the turn of the bilge faired up into the flare of the bow in full
curves, sets up lines of flow in both air and water that carry the
bow spray low and close alongside without any need for chine or
spray rails."
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=280636111&size=s
Re Fishcat #469 - IBb 1988
Lines of flow. Drop in on a continued discussion here ('Instant
Boatbuilder #3' p7) 11 years before writing of the 'Shivaree model'
flow lines. PB first refers to designed weight generally, by
instancing Fishcat, then the hydro/aero-dynamic hull
effects: "...Bernie has a point about my tendency to use over-thin
plywood, but I protest (1) that rigidity is not the same as strength
(how does he feel about the flapping wings of the Boeng B-52?) and
(2) that it's partly a defense against builders who double
everything as a reflex. I once saw a man do this on a Tahiti Ketch!
I can't help feeling that if (Bernie's) Fishcat had been as light as
it was supposed to be, it might not have spit so much spray on first
trial, though I admit that the trouble was really an aerodynamic
effect I should have forseen and didn't."
http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/pages/instantbb.htm
Fishcat #464 is said to take rough water (Oregon river bars),
claimed to be 20-30% more efficient than a monohull, needs no more
than 25 HP (probably less for the purpose), and the cabined one that
Nels mentioned would be very comfy in inclement weather. "..for
those who.. have a lot of water they want to cover in a hurry
without spending a fortune." (91 CSD catalogue). Ask PB&F.
Flying Splinter #319 (Chapter 22, 30-Odd Boats) is around the same
size as OWU and Slicer (#?). FS is maybe less expensive than OWU,
and maybe more capable than Slicer. FS is shown with a 135 HP
outboard for an eye-watering 40 knots; less engine than OWU, but
still more than would seem wanted. The motor could be scaled down
very considerably for 15 - 20 knots; more so if not commuting with
a heavy sailing crew aboard ;-) Hmmm - though it does have that
weekend recreational option of the dipping lug sail if ever wanted.
All-weather helm protection shouldn't be hard to arrange.
A sailing club rescue boat I've used was a RIB with the Hunt
flooding/draining keel tunnel like Bolger mentions for FS. Excellent
performance under way, but also very stable as the tunnel flooded
after stopping.
cheers
Graeme
- who's wondered from time to time, about wondering from time to
time "is the Bolger Flying Splinter/Ocean-Crossing Rowboat sides-
swapping, mast-stepping, dipping lugs'l on a Fishcat" so crazy,
merely certifiable, or double the fun?
(See what gains Ross Turner claims for his catamaran genoa tack
track and sheeting, for down wind and pointing.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/rhturner1/cc29.htmlImproved
pointing performance for a sides-swapping mast dipping lug sail
might be most similar to Turner's genoa if sheeted to the same side
as the tack??)
Then again: "Usual problem of the amateur designers is that they
have an uncanny way of selecting the toughest problems for their
maiden efforts; hence some very bad multihulls, for instance."
Bolger 1988. (Instant Boatbuilder #4, p3) Oh me. Oh my.
> Plus, you want a boat that REALLY handles the spray.I wouldn't have thought that two boats like Open Water Utility and
Fishcat shared much in common. That is, apart from originating in
the same designer's mind. Yet it seems that mind was envisioning how
a shared problem might be dealt with, and as ever seeing flowing
fluids.
Re Open Water Utility #488 - MAIB 1999.
PB&F referring to an earlier MAIB write-up on the 'Shivaree model'
(#518, #648) in the 'Open Water Utility' MAIB article Bruce
posted: "The photos with that article showed how this shape, with
the turn of the bilge faired up into the flare of the bow in full
curves, sets up lines of flow in both air and water that carry the
bow spray low and close alongside without any need for chine or
spray rails."
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=280636111&size=s
Re Fishcat #469 - IBb 1988
Lines of flow. Drop in on a continued discussion here ('Instant
Boatbuilder #3' p7) 11 years before writing of the 'Shivaree model'
flow lines. PB first refers to designed weight generally, by
instancing Fishcat, then the hydro/aero-dynamic hull
effects: "...Bernie has a point about my tendency to use over-thin
plywood, but I protest (1) that rigidity is not the same as strength
(how does he feel about the flapping wings of the Boeng B-52?) and
(2) that it's partly a defense against builders who double
everything as a reflex. I once saw a man do this on a Tahiti Ketch!
I can't help feeling that if (Bernie's) Fishcat had been as light as
it was supposed to be, it might not have spit so much spray on first
trial, though I admit that the trouble was really an aerodynamic
effect I should have forseen and didn't."
http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/pages/instantbb.htm
Fishcat #464 is said to take rough water (Oregon river bars),
claimed to be 20-30% more efficient than a monohull, needs no more
than 25 HP (probably less for the purpose), and the cabined one that
Nels mentioned would be very comfy in inclement weather. "..for
those who.. have a lot of water they want to cover in a hurry
without spending a fortune." (91 CSD catalogue). Ask PB&F.
Flying Splinter #319 (Chapter 22, 30-Odd Boats) is around the same
size as OWU and Slicer (#?). FS is maybe less expensive than OWU,
and maybe more capable than Slicer. FS is shown with a 135 HP
outboard for an eye-watering 40 knots; less engine than OWU, but
still more than would seem wanted. The motor could be scaled down
very considerably for 15 - 20 knots; more so if not commuting with
a heavy sailing crew aboard ;-) Hmmm - though it does have that
weekend recreational option of the dipping lug sail if ever wanted.
All-weather helm protection shouldn't be hard to arrange.
A sailing club rescue boat I've used was a RIB with the Hunt
flooding/draining keel tunnel like Bolger mentions for FS. Excellent
performance under way, but also very stable as the tunnel flooded
after stopping.
cheers
Graeme
- who's wondered from time to time, about wondering from time to
time "is the Bolger Flying Splinter/Ocean-Crossing Rowboat sides-
swapping, mast-stepping, dipping lugs'l on a Fishcat" so crazy,
merely certifiable, or double the fun?
(See what gains Ross Turner claims for his catamaran genoa tack
track and sheeting, for down wind and pointing.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/rhturner1/cc29.htmlImproved
pointing performance for a sides-swapping mast dipping lug sail
might be most similar to Turner's genoa if sheeted to the same side
as the tack??)
Then again: "Usual problem of the amateur designers is that they
have an uncanny way of selecting the toughest problems for their
maiden efforts; hence some very bad multihulls, for instance."
Bolger 1988. (Instant Boatbuilder #4, p3) Oh me. Oh my.
You may want to look at the Fishcat and just enlarge
it to meet your needs.
For speed it all comes down to one thing Lbs over HP
when dealing with a planing hull form. The lighter the
boat is the faster it will be for a given HP. So to
get say 25kts on 25 HP you are going to have to keep
the all up weight to about 750 to 875 lbs. The truth
is speed takes HP. But if you bumped to say 50 Hp you
could have more boat and not push the motor as hard to
make your speed.
On a power cat you also need to look at how much
bridge deck clearance you have as well. If you are
going to be running in an 12 to 18 inch chop you are
going to want at least that much.
An idea I have played with is to take the Sneakeasy
with the box keel and make her about 24 inches of beam
and use that hull form for a power cat. I would think
it would also work well to keep the wake down as well.
Blessings all
Krissie
--- Randy Hough <randy.hough@...> wrote:
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited
(http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited)
it to meet your needs.
For speed it all comes down to one thing Lbs over HP
when dealing with a planing hull form. The lighter the
boat is the faster it will be for a given HP. So to
get say 25kts on 25 HP you are going to have to keep
the all up weight to about 750 to 875 lbs. The truth
is speed takes HP. But if you bumped to say 50 Hp you
could have more boat and not push the motor as hard to
make your speed.
On a power cat you also need to look at how much
bridge deck clearance you have as well. If you are
going to be running in an 12 to 18 inch chop you are
going to want at least that much.
An idea I have played with is to take the Sneakeasy
with the box keel and make her about 24 inches of beam
and use that hull form for a power cat. I would think
it would also work well to keep the wake down as well.
Blessings all
Krissie
--- Randy Hough <randy.hough@...> wrote:
> :)____________________________________________________________________________________
>
> I'd like to keep it well inside the 26 x 8 limits
> for easy towing (and cheap
> slips). I'll probably have to lease a slip at the
> marina to "park" it while
> I'm at work, so size matters.
>
> I really like the lines of the Sneakeasy, but it
> would cost much more to
> rent space for it.
>
> Glen-L's Cabin Skiff at 16 ft comes pretty close to
> what I have in mind, but
> Bolger's boats have much more soul.
>
> A powercat in the 16-18 foot range might be a good
> idea too.
>
> Randy
>
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited
(http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited)
Randy, you may want to consider Slicer, it's a long narrow boat that should be
great for smooth motoring and efficiency.
It seems to me that a boat like Slicer would be an ideal commuter if you put a
little enclosure on it to keep yourself warm and dry in cold or bad weather.
BWAOM page 87.
Sincerely,
Kenneth Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
great for smooth motoring and efficiency.
It seems to me that a boat like Slicer would be an ideal commuter if you put a
little enclosure on it to keep yourself warm and dry in cold or bad weather.
BWAOM page 87.
Sincerely,
Kenneth Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
On Friday 27 October 2006 00:11, Randy Hough wrote:
> What a great group!
>
> I've been lurking for awhile and looking through the archives and files. It
> seems that Phil Bolger has a design for almost everyone! I love the passion
> for boats that is shown in every post.
>
> I have a chance to commute to work on the water. The distance is about 8 nm
> each way.
>
> I'm looking for a fuel efficient boat that will cruise at 15-20 knots. That
> speed will keep the commute time at about 30 minutes, which is better than I
> can manage in a car during rush hours.
>
> I like the looks of the Sneakeasy, but I wonder about adding an enclosed
> steering station for the 6 months of rain we get up here. :) I'd also like
> to hear how the boat handles in less than calm water.
>
> The Hawkeye looks pretty good too. I'd like to read more on the handling
> characteristics of the "step sharpie" hull form. The cabin looks warm and
> cozy, that would be a plus when the temp is 2-8C. :)
>
> I think I should be able to do this on 25HP or less.
>
> 25HP should be about 1.66 gal/hr? At 20 knot cruise, that works out to about
> 12 NM per gallon?
>
> Is it possible? Can I do better?
>
> What boat would you pick?
>
> Thanks for any advice,
>
> Randy
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Chamberland" <chamberlands@...> wrote:
I notice there is a Hawkeye for sale in Florida that has a 40 hp
Honda. The asking price is very reasonable I would say.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger4Sale/message/446
Bob, did you build the enclosed cabin version of Chebacco? I think
that would make a nice commuter if one was happy with a slower speed.
Could it handle a 9.9 Yam I wonder?
Then you could add the sailing rig and go sailing on weekends or when
coming home and celebrating TGIF.
While others are stuck in traffic, you are having a cool one out on
the water.
Nels
> A Honda 4 cycle 25 hp engine will give you around 13-14 mph max inHi Bob,
> calm waters. You will not like the ride at that speed in a chop. Most
> of the "go fast" Microtrawlers that I've read about had 40 hp engines
> but I don't know what speed that gave them. In retrospect I should
> have used a 40 for my Hawkeye.
I notice there is a Hawkeye for sale in Florida that has a 40 hp
Honda. The asking price is very reasonable I would say.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger4Sale/message/446
Bob, did you build the enclosed cabin version of Chebacco? I think
that would make a nice commuter if one was happy with a slower speed.
Could it handle a 9.9 Yam I wonder?
Then you could add the sailing rig and go sailing on weekends or when
coming home and celebrating TGIF.
While others are stuck in traffic, you are having a cool one out on
the water.
Nels
Here are a couple of notes on Hawkeye that probably apply to
Microtrawler also. My experience is with Hawkeye. My Hawkeye is
probably a little heavier than the standard version. It is posted
under Photos in Bolger2. Look for Hawkeye Variant.
A Honda 4 cycle 25 hp engine will give you around 13-14 mph max in
calm waters. You will not like the ride at that speed in a chop. Most
of the "go fast" Microtrawlers that I've read about had 40 hp engines
but I don't know what speed that gave them. In retrospect I should
have used a 40 for my Hawkeye. I worked up a MTlike cabin for Hawkeye
but decided on the form of the Variant. The MT cabin form would be a
good bit heavier and leave no cockpit/deck space. My inclination,
again in retrospect, would be to eliminate the engine well and hang
the engine as done on the MT. This would give you more deck space and
would have given my version a little better balance by moving the CG
back a little bit.
Bob Chamberland
Microtrawler also. My experience is with Hawkeye. My Hawkeye is
probably a little heavier than the standard version. It is posted
under Photos in Bolger2. Look for Hawkeye Variant.
A Honda 4 cycle 25 hp engine will give you around 13-14 mph max in
calm waters. You will not like the ride at that speed in a chop. Most
of the "go fast" Microtrawlers that I've read about had 40 hp engines
but I don't know what speed that gave them. In retrospect I should
have used a 40 for my Hawkeye. I worked up a MTlike cabin for Hawkeye
but decided on the form of the Variant. The MT cabin form would be a
good bit heavier and leave no cockpit/deck space. My inclination,
again in retrospect, would be to eliminate the engine well and hang
the engine as done on the MT. This would give you more deck space and
would have given my version a little better balance by moving the CG
back a little bit.
Bob Chamberland
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hough <randy.hough@...> wrote:
>
> What a great group!
>
> I've been lurking for awhile and looking through the archives and
files. It
> seems that Phil Bolger has a design for almost everyone! I love the
passion
> for boats that is shown in every post.
>
> I have a chance to commute to work on the water. The distance is
about 8 nm
> each way.
>
> I'm looking for a fuel efficient boat that will cruise at 15-20
knots. That
> speed will keep the commute time at about 30 minutes, which is
better than I
> can manage in a car during rush hours.
>
> I like the looks of the Sneakeasy, but I wonder about adding an enclosed
> steering station for the 6 months of rain we get up here. :) I'd
also like
> to hear how the boat handles in less than calm water.
>
> The Hawkeye looks pretty good too. I'd like to read more on the handling
> characteristics of the "step sharpie" hull form. The cabin looks
warm and
> cozy, that would be a plus when the temp is 2-8C. :)
>
> I think I should be able to do this on 25HP or less.
>
> 25HP should be about 1.66 gal/hr? At 20 knot cruise, that works out
to about
> 12 NM per gallon?
>
> Is it possible? Can I do better?
>
> What boat would you pick?
>
> Thanks for any advice,
>
> Randy
>
> there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing
as simply
> messing about in boats.
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.14/501 - Release Date:
10/26/2006
>
Hawkeye will do the job. The plans include a Microtrawler like cabin
addition that would make occasional overnights comfy. IMO the
Microtrawler would also do the job, and at 14' will be very easy to
park during the day.
Lastly, you wouldn't need to include the berth areas on either boat.
A 25hp 4stroke should push either boat, though the Hawkeye is a bit
lighter than the smaller Microtrawler thus will do better on the
25hp.
Hmmm, thinking about it, the Hawkeye's lower weight is without the
extended cabin w' berths. A Microtrawler built with a Hawkeye
wheelhouse only, should be very light.
The the Microtrawler/Hawkeye/Retriever hull (14', 18', 22') has a
reputation as being rugged, and excellent handling in a range of
conditions.
Don Schultz
addition that would make occasional overnights comfy. IMO the
Microtrawler would also do the job, and at 14' will be very easy to
park during the day.
Lastly, you wouldn't need to include the berth areas on either boat.
A 25hp 4stroke should push either boat, though the Hawkeye is a bit
lighter than the smaller Microtrawler thus will do better on the
25hp.
Hmmm, thinking about it, the Hawkeye's lower weight is without the
extended cabin w' berths. A Microtrawler built with a Hawkeye
wheelhouse only, should be very light.
The the Microtrawler/Hawkeye/Retriever hull (14', 18', 22') has a
reputation as being rugged, and excellent handling in a range of
conditions.
Don Schultz
Hawkeye will do the job. The plans include a Microtrawler like cabin
addition that would make occasional overnights comfy. IMO the
Microtrawler would also do the job, and at 14' will be very easy to
park during the day.
Lastly, you wouldn't need to include the berth areas on either boat.
A 25hp 4stroke should push either boat, though the Hawkeye is a bit
lighter than the smaller Microtrawler thus will do better on the
25hp.
Hmmm, thinking about it, the Hawkeye's lower weight is without the
extended cabin w' berths. A Microtrawler built with a Hawkeye
wheelhouse only, should be very light.
The the Microtrawler/Hawkeye/Retriever hull (14', 18', 22') has a
reputation as being rugged, and excellent handling in a range of
conditions.
Don Schultz
addition that would make occasional overnights comfy. IMO the
Microtrawler would also do the job, and at 14' will be very easy to
park during the day.
Lastly, you wouldn't need to include the berth areas on either boat.
A 25hp 4stroke should push either boat, though the Hawkeye is a bit
lighter than the smaller Microtrawler thus will do better on the
25hp.
Hmmm, thinking about it, the Hawkeye's lower weight is without the
extended cabin w' berths. A Microtrawler built with a Hawkeye
wheelhouse only, should be very light.
The the Microtrawler/Hawkeye/Retriever hull (14', 18', 22') has a
reputation as being rugged, and excellent handling in a range of
conditions.
Don Schultz
> > Randy, you may want to consider Slicer,I also like Slicer. I have imagined that she could be fitted with
hinges borrowed from the Folding Schooner design, to fold up and ride
on a trailer too.
Just so. Here's another look.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/excerpts/maib/1/index.cfm
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/excerpts/maib/1/index.cfm
On Oct 27, 2006, at 4:28 PM, Kenneth Grome wrote:
> Randy, you may want to consider Slicer, it's a long narrow boat
> that should be
> great for smooth motoring and efficiency.
>
>
On 10/26/06, Randy Hough wrote:
various conditions (including the worst) that are certain to crop up.
Plus, you want a boat that REALLY handles the spray.
I recommend design #488, Open Water Utility.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/280636111/
>For daily commuting you need a 'real boat' capable of handling the
> I have a chance to commute to work on the water.
various conditions (including the worst) that are certain to crop up.
Plus, you want a boat that REALLY handles the spray.
I recommend design #488, Open Water Utility.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hallman/280636111/
I am curious, since water front property is at such a premium here in south
west Florida, a lot of the newer and renovated marinas are reluctant to rent
a slip to anything less than a 30' boat. Some even require a rate equal to
a 50' regardless of the size below 50'. Have you checked into the marinas
in the area you are considering?
Caloosarat
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Randy Hough
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 3:06 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: High mileage all weather commuter?
:)
I'd like to keep it well inside the 26 x 8 limits for easy towing (and cheap
slips). I'll probably have to lease a slip at the marina to "park" it while
I'm at work, so size matters.
.
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1194369/grpspId=1705065791/msgId
=51312/stime=1161933317/nc1=4044349/nc2=2/nc3=3>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
west Florida, a lot of the newer and renovated marinas are reluctant to rent
a slip to anything less than a 30' boat. Some even require a rate equal to
a 50' regardless of the size below 50'. Have you checked into the marinas
in the area you are considering?
Caloosarat
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Randy Hough
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 3:06 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [bolger] Re: High mileage all weather commuter?
:)
I'd like to keep it well inside the 26 x 8 limits for easy towing (and cheap
slips). I'll probably have to lease a slip at the marina to "park" it while
I'm at work, so size matters.
.
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1194369/grpspId=1705065791/msgId
=51312/stime=1161933317/nc1=4044349/nc2=2/nc3=3>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Following on Proa's multihull idea, the Bolger "Fishcat" is sized for
25 hp.
http://www.common-sense-boats.com/fish_cat.htm
(Philp Bolger himself will offer you fresh blueprints rolled in a
tube for about the same amount of money remember.)
An enclosed version is pictured about fourth boat down in the
Duckworks 2006 Tampa Bay meet coverage.
http://tinyurl.com/ybnaqp
Not sure how fast that travels, but <25 pounds per hp is very good.
25 hp.
http://www.common-sense-boats.com/fish_cat.htm
(Philp Bolger himself will offer you fresh blueprints rolled in a
tube for about the same amount of money remember.)
An enclosed version is pictured about fourth boat down in the
Duckworks 2006 Tampa Bay meet coverage.
http://tinyurl.com/ybnaqp
Not sure how fast that travels, but <25 pounds per hp is very good.
On Oct 26, 2006, at 10:11 PM, Randy Hough wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a fuel efficient boat that will cruise at 15-20
> knots. That
> speed will keep the commute time at about 30 minutes, which is
> better than I
> can manage in a car during rush hours.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hough <randy.hough@...> wrote:
had an enclosed cabin, which looked pretty seaworthy and fast.
Then there is Watervan and a smaller version which I can't recall the
name of now. Fiddler?
Nels
>You can search the posts here for "Fishcat". There was one build that
>
> A powercat in the 16-18 foot range might be a good idea too.
>
> Randy
>
had an enclosed cabin, which looked pretty seaworthy and fast.
Then there is Watervan and a smaller version which I can't recall the
name of now. Fiddler?
Nels
:)
I'd like to keep it well inside the 26 x 8 limits for easy towing (and cheap
slips). I'll probably have to lease a slip at the marina to "park" it while
I'm at work, so size matters.
I really like the lines of the Sneakeasy, but it would cost much more to
rent space for it.
Glen-L's Cabin Skiff at 16 ft comes pretty close to what I have in mind, but
Bolger's boats have much more soul.
A powercat in the 16-18 foot range might be a good idea too.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
proaconstrictor
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:11 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: High mileage all weather commuter?
What you need is a cat or tri, it's a semi-displacement hull and so you
don't have to lift the boat out of the water before going anywhere and
when the weather stinks you don't have to crash over the top of it.
More comfort, and more economy. Like this, though it seems wider than
need be:
http://catamaranconstruction.com/powercat.htm
However, Bolger has done a number of these, and they work probably even
better than square box monos where square boxes are concerned. I built
one to my own desing for fishing. I don't know if he has built a
comuter...
Another good bet would be the Sneakeasy with the box keel, like Carlson
built. Though even there it seems like a pretty sheltered water deal.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'd like to keep it well inside the 26 x 8 limits for easy towing (and cheap
slips). I'll probably have to lease a slip at the marina to "park" it while
I'm at work, so size matters.
I really like the lines of the Sneakeasy, but it would cost much more to
rent space for it.
Glen-L's Cabin Skiff at 16 ft comes pretty close to what I have in mind, but
Bolger's boats have much more soul.
A powercat in the 16-18 foot range might be a good idea too.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
proaconstrictor
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:11 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: High mileage all weather commuter?
What you need is a cat or tri, it's a semi-displacement hull and so you
don't have to lift the boat out of the water before going anywhere and
when the weather stinks you don't have to crash over the top of it.
More comfort, and more economy. Like this, though it seems wider than
need be:
http://catamaranconstruction.com/powercat.htm
However, Bolger has done a number of these, and they work probably even
better than square box monos where square boxes are concerned. I built
one to my own desing for fishing. I don't know if he has built a
comuter...
Another good bet would be the Sneakeasy with the box keel, like Carlson
built. Though even there it seems like a pretty sheltered water deal.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.14/501 - Release Date: 10/26/2006
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What you need is a cat or tri, it's a semi-displacement hull and so you
don't have to lift the boat out of the water before going anywhere and
when the weather stinks you don't have to crash over the top of it.
More comfort, and more economy. Like this, though it seems wider than
need be:
http://catamaranconstruction.com/powercat.htm
However, Bolger has done a number of these, and they work probably even
better than square box monos where square boxes are concerned. I built
one to my own desing for fishing. I don't know if he has built a
comuter...
Another good bet would be the Sneakeasy with the box keel, like Carlson
built. Though even there it seems like a pretty sheltered water deal.
don't have to lift the boat out of the water before going anywhere and
when the weather stinks you don't have to crash over the top of it.
More comfort, and more economy. Like this, though it seems wider than
need be:
http://catamaranconstruction.com/powercat.htm
However, Bolger has done a number of these, and they work probably even
better than square box monos where square boxes are concerned. I built
one to my own desing for fishing. I don't know if he has built a
comuter...
Another good bet would be the Sneakeasy with the box keel, like Carlson
built. Though even there it seems like a pretty sheltered water deal.
What a great group!
I've been lurking for awhile and looking through the archives and files. It
seems that Phil Bolger has a design for almost everyone! I love the passion
for boats that is shown in every post.
I have a chance to commute to work on the water. The distance is about 8 nm
each way.
I'm looking for a fuel efficient boat that will cruise at 15-20 knots. That
speed will keep the commute time at about 30 minutes, which is better than I
can manage in a car during rush hours.
I like the looks of the Sneakeasy, but I wonder about adding an enclosed
steering station for the 6 months of rain we get up here. :) I'd also like
to hear how the boat handles in less than calm water.
The Hawkeye looks pretty good too. I'd like to read more on the handling
characteristics of the "step sharpie" hull form. The cabin looks warm and
cozy, that would be a plus when the temp is 2-8C. :)
I think I should be able to do this on 25HP or less.
25HP should be about 1.66 gal/hr? At 20 knot cruise, that works out to about
12 NM per gallon?
Is it possible? Can I do better?
What boat would you pick?
Thanks for any advice,
Randy
there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply
messing about in boats.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.14/501 - Release Date: 10/26/2006
I've been lurking for awhile and looking through the archives and files. It
seems that Phil Bolger has a design for almost everyone! I love the passion
for boats that is shown in every post.
I have a chance to commute to work on the water. The distance is about 8 nm
each way.
I'm looking for a fuel efficient boat that will cruise at 15-20 knots. That
speed will keep the commute time at about 30 minutes, which is better than I
can manage in a car during rush hours.
I like the looks of the Sneakeasy, but I wonder about adding an enclosed
steering station for the 6 months of rain we get up here. :) I'd also like
to hear how the boat handles in less than calm water.
The Hawkeye looks pretty good too. I'd like to read more on the handling
characteristics of the "step sharpie" hull form. The cabin looks warm and
cozy, that would be a plus when the temp is 2-8C. :)
I think I should be able to do this on 25HP or less.
25HP should be about 1.66 gal/hr? At 20 knot cruise, that works out to about
12 NM per gallon?
Is it possible? Can I do better?
What boat would you pick?
Thanks for any advice,
Randy
there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply
messing about in boats.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.14/501 - Release Date: 10/26/2006