Re:Steel ASharpies/Lions Paw update/Weston Martyr

ps Chesterfield canal 'cuckoos' were 72ft long which
makes WM look relatively fat.Unfortunately the last
original one fell apart under the tender care of the
British Waterways museum so the Canal Trust is on with
constructing a replica
Cheers
Andy Airey

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I know a number of hobbiest woodworkers here on the
island and they are more then happy to do the milling
I need done. The last time it cost me two sets of
planer blades and two new saw blades. And he still
thinks he owes me for the all the blades.....

All the milling we did would have cost me about 2
grand to have a commercal shop do it. Hey it was also
a nice way to spend a weekend with a friend!

The funny thing is every thing we milled fit!

Blessings all Krissie

>
> One can also get these units custom fabricated to
> your design (in whatever wood you wish) at the same
> costs of units found in lumber yards. You have to
> find the hobbiest cabinet maker in your neighborhood
> to do the work - not a commerical shop. The hobbiest
> likely has $20,000 in equipment sitting in the
> garage - be happy to make stuff for you with your
> money - rather than making yet another piece that
> gets stored .... until someday.
> The above is what I advise people who take my
> housebuilding workshops.
>
>
>
>

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I've helped outfit both steel and fiberglass boats...

With steel you need to plan ahead and KNOW where you
want things put so all the tabs and mounting plates
are in the right place. Then make sure there are no
changes and prime and paint every thing and then spray
in the foam or glue in the foam or maybe both. Then
comes the wood.

The outfitting just takes a bit more time is all and a
lot more planing!

Building the hull out of steel is not that hard with
the right tools. It just takes more time to do all the
welding. But with the new epoxy paints the boat should
be around for a long time to come!

Blessings Krissie

> On 12/1/06, Waldo F. Odonahue wrote:
>
> > Is there a difference between finshing a wood
> versus steel hull?
>
> Perhaps it is only my imagination, but I know how to
> deal with wood,
> and not with steel.
>
> I know how to drive a nail into wood, but not steel.
> Also, I know how
> to shape wood with a chisel, or with my belt sander.
> I know now to
> glue wood to wood, but am not sure about wood to
> steel.
>

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I wrote to PCB some time ago about Weston Martyr and
never received a reply either,which was a pity because
it fitted my requirements for universality.The thing
to remember about WM was that the constraining
dimension was the 6'10" width of the locks on the
British narrow canals so that a 8ft width would be
rather pointless for it's intended purpose.A steel
AS39 would be quite nice though,the thing to remember
about canal use being that there are a lot more things
to bash about in canals and locks than a sailing boat
might normally be expected to encounter.Some narrow
boats were sailed,although perhaps not as a matter of
course.For example,the Chesterfield canal
'cuckoos'were occasionally sailed on the
Trent,although in the last couple of decades of
operation it was probably more common practise for
them to drift with the incoming tide,or to pick up a
tow when working upstream towards Newark
cheers
Andy Airey

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>>In terms of finishing the interior Bolger often recommends Ikea/Home
>>Depot units for seating/shelving/ counters/ sitting/sleeping .

>Are you being serious about this one?
>I thought about it too and how extremely convinient, cheap AND good
>loking that would be but felt it might be a bad idea because IKEA
>certainly wasn't designed for a marine (= damp if not down right wet)
>environment. They're mainly made of chipboard which isn't waterproof
>at all (come and see my kitchen!).

No I am not kidding. In material that Bolger faxed me for the Windermere (Trawler version) - that exactly what he says. There are different levels of quality and different materials used in these units - and differing costs to buy.

Consumer Reports magazine (within the last couple of years or so) evaluated all the systems available in North America. Ikea came second at about one tenth the cost of the company that came first in quality!

One can also get these units custom fabricated to your design (in whatever wood you wish) at the same costs of units found in lumber yards. You have to find the hobbiest cabinet maker in your neighborhood to do the work - not a commerical shop. The hobbiest likely has $20,000 in equipment sitting in the garage - be happy to make stuff for you with your money - rather than making yet another piece that gets stored .... until someday.
The above is what I advise people who take my housebuilding workshops.



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Glassed chip board would solve any ballast problems you might have!
Perhaps he was referring to their table tops of glued strips?

V/R
Chris

Patric Albutat wrote:

> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Waldo F. Odonahue" <waldofo@...> wrote:
> snip.. They're mainly made of chipboard which isn't waterproof
> at all (come and see my kitchen!). Perhaps glassing it all over would be possible?
>
> just curious,
> Patric
>
>
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Waldo F. Odonahue" <waldofo@...> wrote:

In terms of finishing the interior Bolger often recommends Ikea/Home
Depot units for seating/shelving/counters/sitting/sleeping.

Are you being serious about this one?
I thought about it too and how extremely convinient, cheap AND good
loking that would be but felt it might be a bad idea because IKEA
certainly wasn't designed for a marine (= damp if not down right wet)
environment. They're mainly made of chipboard which isn't waterproof
at all (come and see my kitchen!).
Perhaps glassing it all over would be possible?

just curious,
Patric

On 12/1/06, Waldo F. Odonahue wrote:

> Is there a difference between finshing a wood versus steel hull?

Perhaps it is only my imagination, but I know how to deal with wood,
and not with steel.

I know how to drive a nail into wood, but not steel. Also, I know how
to shape wood with a chisel, or with my belt sander. I know now to
glue wood to wood, but am not sure about wood to steel.

> I see no reason a AS39 couldn't be steel

>A steel hull makes gobs of sense in my mind, quick, cheap,
>strong...for the bare hull. Though, building the bare hull is the
>easy part of the job. I begin to lose interest when I think of the
>interior fit out work. Indeed, the finish 'fit-out' work in a boat

>like that is the biggest part of the task, at least 2/3rds of the
>total work.

Is there a difference between finshing a wood versus steel hull? If one is going to insulate the hull then there is essentially no difference (steel+foam+wood/ply) versus (wood/ply+foam+wood/ply). Depending on whether anyone who owns a AS39 will be cruising in climates that are either very warm and/or cool. In terms of finishing the interior Bolger often recommends Ikea/Home Depot units for seating/shelving/counters/sitting/sleeping.

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On 12/1/06, goadarama wrote:

> I see no reason a AS39 couldn't be steel.

A steel hull makes gobs of sense in my mind, quick, cheap,
strong...for the bare hull. Though, building the bare hull is the
easy part of the job. I begin to lose interest when I think of the
interior fit out work. Indeed, the finish 'fit-out' work in a boat
like that is the biggest part of the task, at least 2/3rds of the
total work. In my imagination, building the interior of a wooden
boat seems quicker and easier that the same interior work in a steel
boat (with steel's unique thermal, corrosion and acoustic problems).

Appreciate the feedback on steel sharpies. A bud here in NW Florida
knows ABostick, who built Lions Paw, and saw the finished box.
That's as far as it got: it's still rusting up in Quincy (Fl).
I wrote PBolger asking if WMartyr was ever designed in a 8' width
and got no answer so I assume that's a no (PBs gotta be inundated
with such trivia mail). I see no reason a AS39 couldn't be steel.

The same local bud asked me yesterday why a AS29 or 39 couldn't be
built with a ALL STEEL bottom portion, rather than wood bottom with
multiple piercings, 5200 donuts, bolts, and epoxy.... then the
topsides strip planked or with the usual ply. He's a strip planking
enthusiast and experienced stripper.

Bad idea due to thermal expansion at the join line? Seems the best
of both worlds>>> great thermal and maintenance qualities above the
waterline (actually about 12" or so above it) and all the neat
bennies of steel underneath. Maybe hoop frames 3' OC or so?

Any devils advocates on this one? This is not mild speculation. My
first boat was a instant boat 12 meter motor shorey of plywood. Our
current boat disappoints us as a classic 4.5' draft clorox boat, and
our NEXT boat (and hopefully the final one since we're getting well
into middle age) will be a tough 12 meter sharpie.

Thanks from Apalachicola, Florida. BoBG living aboard S/V "Plan A"
(junk rigged Pearson Vanguard 32)