Re: My recent 38 Lions Paw visit/viewing/our liveaboard heresy
> We're goingThe master of sharpiedom has designed various other boats that would
> back to a sharpie though because 4.5 foot draft is not for us.
be easier to live on than Lion's Paw which, among other things, lacks
standing headroom. You could, for example, take a look at Alert,
presently for sale, as far as I know. Not expensive and ready to go.
Also originally low inside; I don't know how much headroom there is in
present form.
The ultimate liveaboard would be the 35' scow schooner. It has
sharpie-type draft and plenty of room. With a litte patience, you
might be able to buy an AS-29. And there is the 39' plywood
centerboard yawl.
Peter
Allan Bostick mentioned that the crane he used to move his Lions Paw
hull from one pasture to another showed his bare hull (with 1/2" ply
decks in place) to be just around 11000 pounds. He said he'd have to
add steel bars amidships, at that bulkhead, to bring it to PBolgers
designed displacement. So.... I reckon you could even go a bit
thicker on the bottom plating as long as it's symmetrical. Probably
iffy on a hull that's not a pure double ender and totally
symmetrical.
hull from one pasture to another showed his bare hull (with 1/2" ply
decks in place) to be just around 11000 pounds. He said he'd have to
add steel bars amidships, at that bulkhead, to bring it to PBolgers
designed displacement. So.... I reckon you could even go a bit
thicker on the bottom plating as long as it's symmetrical. Probably
iffy on a hull that's not a pure double ender and totally
symmetrical.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@...> wrote:
>
> Horses for courses.PCB shows half inch plate for the
> bottom plate of Weston Martyr but I assume that this
> replaces all,or most,of the ballast.Dutch barges seem
> to have been something like 6mm all round,with a
> rebottoming every 20 years or so.3mm seems to be about
> the minimum to get a fair weld,with reasonable
> corrosion resistance.Canada Goose,a 35yr old
> narrowboat I have a share in,was originally built with
> 1/4" bottom and 3/16" sides but since the bottom
> appears to be down to about 2mm in places we're
> looking at overplating with 6mm steel.Current
> narrowboat standards are 10/6/5/4mm -
> bottom/sides/cabin/roof.Don't forget that a reasonable
> size boat like the AS39 or LP has to displace a lot of
> water to keep the propellor covered so you might as
> well put the weight into the boat as into the
> ballast.I've been theorizing about a 42' Aak type
> sailing barge (think extended Schuyt Houseboat) and
> you're looking about 10 tons per foot of displacement,
> so for a 2'draft - you need some boat under the water
> - you've got to find a lot of weight from somewhere
> cheers
> Andy Airey
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its
simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine
>http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>
Sorry..... we live aboard a Pearson 32, junk rigged. We're going
back to a sharpie though because 4.5 foot draft is not for us. And
the master of sharpiedom, to my tastes and aesthetics, is Mr. PB.
Thus my querying the group on potential stock plans for a robust 12
meter steel sharpie. Best wishes from the USA gulf coast and happy
holidays. BGoad...... S/V "Plan A"
back to a sharpie though because 4.5 foot draft is not for us. And
the master of sharpiedom, to my tastes and aesthetics, is Mr. PB.
Thus my querying the group on potential stock plans for a robust 12
meter steel sharpie. Best wishes from the USA gulf coast and happy
holidays. BGoad...... S/V "Plan A"
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "GarthAB" <garth@...> wrote:
>
> Bob --
>
> You're living out my dream and perhaps that of half the Bolger list
> members. What boat are you going to be living aboard? Please send
as
> much detail as possible for us housebound, snowbound,
> school-and-kids-and-job-bound northerners.
>
> I don't have answers about the parking, but in my long dreaming on
> such matters, I've often imagined I could call a few marinas and
see
> if they would quote me a monthly parking rate. . . )
>
> Fair winds,
> Garth
> (whose big trailer sailer is currently becalmed, up on blocks,
under a
> blue tarp, in a barn amid the snow in the Catskills . . .)
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bob Slimak <otter55806@> wrote:
> > I have bought two guide books, The Gunkholer's Guide to the West
> Coast of Florida, and Cruising Florida's Big Bend. Both good
books,
> but I have never seen a guide book that tells you where the heck
you
> can park you car and trailer while gone, and I mean gone. I'm not
> heading back to this cold Northland (Duluth, MN) until Spring
appears
> :) !
>
More at:
http://www.churchward.com/cw/steelcraft/1.html
and
http://www.steelcruisers.com/intro.html
Howard
http://www.churchward.com/cw/steelcraft/1.html
and
http://www.steelcruisers.com/intro.html
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Most people don't know that there were a number of
> shops that built steel runabouts and cabincrusers in
> the 50s and 60s here in the USA. One of them was
> called Steelcraft.
One problem with steel or aluminum is that metal prices have tripled
in the last four years, whereas wood has not quite doubled in price.
in the last four years, whereas wood has not quite doubled in price.
Most people don't know that there were a number of
shops that built steel runabouts and cabincrusers in
the 50s and 60s here in the USA. One of them was
called Steelcraft. Every now and them you will find
one for sale. They were useing corten steel for their
hulls and decks and they also had some nice lines as
well
Blessings Krissie
--- ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@...> wrote:
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Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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shops that built steel runabouts and cabincrusers in
the 50s and 60s here in the USA. One of them was
called Steelcraft. Every now and them you will find
one for sale. They were useing corten steel for their
hulls and decks and they also had some nice lines as
well
Blessings Krissie
--- ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@...> wrote:
> I think what might put me off is that welding____________________________________________________________________________________
> aluminium is a bit more technical than welding
> steel,so that getting repairs done would be more of
> a
> problem,but the link certainly gives food for
> thought.Don't forget that nobody told the Dutch that
> you couldn't build small boats in steel,so they
> do.Or
> PCB either come to that,since 'Colonel Hassler'is a
> 20footer in steel
> cheers
> Andy Airey
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends
>http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gravelyrider" <ddvorak@...> wrote:
Thanks for the link.
Bill
>Great information but I now think I'm ready to go back to good old plywood.
>
> Here;s a good place to start
>
>http://www.kastenmarine.com/aluminum.htm
>
Thanks for the link.
Bill
Hi Bob,
Several years ago I left my car and trailer at Palm Grove marina, 2500 Main St., Ft Myers Beach, Florida. they put my vehicles in their back lot while I was gone for 5 months. They got all my outfitting business before I left and stored my boat and trailer for the off season when I returned so they did not charge for stroing my car and trailer.
Since then the marina has new owners and name. It is now known as Salty Sams and seems to have becme more yuppie than salty. Give then a call, it never hurts to ask.
Regards
JJ & Irene
Rockport Tx.
78382
Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Several years ago I left my car and trailer at Palm Grove marina, 2500 Main St., Ft Myers Beach, Florida. they put my vehicles in their back lot while I was gone for 5 months. They got all my outfitting business before I left and stored my boat and trailer for the off season when I returned so they did not charge for stroing my car and trailer.
Since then the marina has new owners and name. It is now known as Salty Sams and seems to have becme more yuppie than salty. Give then a call, it never hurts to ask.
Regards
JJ & Irene
Rockport Tx.
78382
Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind.
---------------------------------
Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think what might put me off is that welding
aluminium is a bit more technical than welding
steel,so that getting repairs done would be more of a
problem,but the link certainly gives food for
thought.Don't forget that nobody told the Dutch that
you couldn't build small boats in steel,so they do.Or
PCB either come to that,since 'Colonel Hassler'is a
20footer in steel
cheers
Andy Airey
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
aluminium is a bit more technical than welding
steel,so that getting repairs done would be more of a
problem,but the link certainly gives food for
thought.Don't forget that nobody told the Dutch that
you couldn't build small boats in steel,so they do.Or
PCB either come to that,since 'Colonel Hassler'is a
20footer in steel
cheers
Andy Airey
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Hi All
The one thing that no one has yet mentioned about LP
is it's sailing ability.The pic in 30 odd boats only
shows the steel part of the hull,so one presumes that
it was decked out with timber,which would help to keep
the top weight down.LP is similar to what we used to
call a 'Barge yacht' in the UK,although these would
have had flat,rather than rockered bottoms.They were
basically half size Thames barges or Norfolk
Wherries,although some were conversions of the full
size items.
I can't see it lasting if the hull has water in
it.Canada Goose,which must have been out of the water
for 10 or 12 years,has underside pitting,but the
really heavy corrosion is inside the hull where it's
had standing water.Unfortunately this was under a
fairly recently laid floor as well,so was not
immediately visible.
The method of welding the sides to an overlapping
bottom is standard practice these days when building
narrowboats for the UK canals.Usually about 3/4 to 1
inch overlap is used,I imagine for the same reasons
that PCB recommended it.I'd have thought that the
sides would have been a bit heavier than 3mm,but it
would presumeably depend on the framing.The
floppability of thin(ish) steel plate is used for
building 'origami' style boats.
When it comes to frames and scantlings Dutch Barge
practise is lighter than Lloyds standard,except for
Barges built for the coasting trade to
Scandinavia,which had to conform to Lloyds standards
for insurance reasons
I think if I was building something like LP I would
have to incorporate a deckhouse to give me some
headroom - I'm 6'7" - which would make 'Whalewatcher'
my preferred design except that it isn't suitable for
what I want to do.Incidentally,were any other LP's
built and how much are the plans.I suppose that the
AS39 is the more modern equivalent,but it looks to be
the same as Weston Martyr - not enough headroom
cheers
Andy Airey
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
The one thing that no one has yet mentioned about LP
is it's sailing ability.The pic in 30 odd boats only
shows the steel part of the hull,so one presumes that
it was decked out with timber,which would help to keep
the top weight down.LP is similar to what we used to
call a 'Barge yacht' in the UK,although these would
have had flat,rather than rockered bottoms.They were
basically half size Thames barges or Norfolk
Wherries,although some were conversions of the full
size items.
I can't see it lasting if the hull has water in
it.Canada Goose,which must have been out of the water
for 10 or 12 years,has underside pitting,but the
really heavy corrosion is inside the hull where it's
had standing water.Unfortunately this was under a
fairly recently laid floor as well,so was not
immediately visible.
The method of welding the sides to an overlapping
bottom is standard practice these days when building
narrowboats for the UK canals.Usually about 3/4 to 1
inch overlap is used,I imagine for the same reasons
that PCB recommended it.I'd have thought that the
sides would have been a bit heavier than 3mm,but it
would presumeably depend on the framing.The
floppability of thin(ish) steel plate is used for
building 'origami' style boats.
When it comes to frames and scantlings Dutch Barge
practise is lighter than Lloyds standard,except for
Barges built for the coasting trade to
Scandinavia,which had to conform to Lloyds standards
for insurance reasons
I think if I was building something like LP I would
have to incorporate a deckhouse to give me some
headroom - I'm 6'7" - which would make 'Whalewatcher'
my preferred design except that it isn't suitable for
what I want to do.Incidentally,were any other LP's
built and how much are the plans.I suppose that the
AS39 is the more modern equivalent,but it looks to be
the same as Weston Martyr - not enough headroom
cheers
Andy Airey
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
Here;s a good place to start
http://www.kastenmarine.com/aluminum.htm
http://www.kastenmarine.com/aluminum.htm
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "urbanrocket" <williambennie@...> wrote:
>
> > replaces all,or most,of the ballast.Dutch barges seem
> > to have been something like 6mm all round,with a
> > rebottoming every 20 years or so.3mm seems to be about
> > the minimum to get a fair weld,with reasonable
> > corrosion resistance.Canada Goose,a 35yr old
> > narrowboat I have a share in,was originally built with
> > 1/4" bottom and 3/16" sides but since the bottom
> > appears to be down to about 2mm in places we're
> > looking at overplating with 6mm steel.Current
> > narrowboat standards are 10/6/5/4mm -
>
>
> I'm curious if anyone here could comment on aluminum vs. steel construction? Are the
> benefits offset by the detriments? I saw a short blurb on Duckworks that got the idle
brain
> gears spinning (okay - slowly grinding).
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
The Dunedin Brewery in Dunedin has had occasion to make me wish that they
were closer to Fort Myers or that Fort Myers was closer to Dunedin. It is
easy walking distance from the public marina in Dunedin, which is just north
of Clearwater, and south of Tarpon Springs. Micro breweries are not as
popular as I would like along the southwest coast of Florida.
I would second the comment that finding a storage lot near a launch site
would make a lot more sense than leaving a vehicle in a State Park, due to
theft, vandalism, and the lack of response from the Parks themselves. I
have, in the past left a vehicle for up to four days at local (County)
facilities, but only after coordinating with the park manager.
Caloosarat
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bob Slimak
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:32 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: My recent 38 Lions Paw visit/viewing
It's OK to boil the hops, as long as you first boil the grains and malt. Add
the hops, boil some more, add the finishing hops then>>>>>>>>> you get the
idea. That is the one thing that gets me about spending months on a small
boat. No room to brew my own. Speaking of Florida, any of you Floridians
know of any good micro breweries? Since I can't brew my own.
While I'm looking for info from Floridians, here's another. Does anyone know
what the limits are for length of time you can park a car and boat trailer
while off cruising? I have emailed to Everglades and Biscayne and to the
Florida State Parks but no one seems to bother to reply. I have bought two
guide books, The Gunkholer's Guide to the West Coast of Florida, and
Cruising Florida's Big Bend. Both good books, but I have never seen a guide
book that tells you where the heck you can park you car and trailer while
gone, and I mean gone. I'm not heading back to this cold Northland (Duluth,
MN) until Spring appears :) ! The last time I was living aboard down there I
started from MN and went down the river system to Mobile and along the gulf
by boat all the way, so I did not have to deal with the car-trailer problem.
If any of you have any info, please let me know. otter55806@yahoo.
<mailto:otter55806%40yahoo.com> com
Thanks! Bob Slimak
---------------------------------
Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and
get things done faster.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
were closer to Fort Myers or that Fort Myers was closer to Dunedin. It is
easy walking distance from the public marina in Dunedin, which is just north
of Clearwater, and south of Tarpon Springs. Micro breweries are not as
popular as I would like along the southwest coast of Florida.
I would second the comment that finding a storage lot near a launch site
would make a lot more sense than leaving a vehicle in a State Park, due to
theft, vandalism, and the lack of response from the Parks themselves. I
have, in the past left a vehicle for up to four days at local (County)
facilities, but only after coordinating with the park manager.
Caloosarat
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bob Slimak
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:32 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: My recent 38 Lions Paw visit/viewing
It's OK to boil the hops, as long as you first boil the grains and malt. Add
the hops, boil some more, add the finishing hops then>>>>>>>>> you get the
idea. That is the one thing that gets me about spending months on a small
boat. No room to brew my own. Speaking of Florida, any of you Floridians
know of any good micro breweries? Since I can't brew my own.
While I'm looking for info from Floridians, here's another. Does anyone know
what the limits are for length of time you can park a car and boat trailer
while off cruising? I have emailed to Everglades and Biscayne and to the
Florida State Parks but no one seems to bother to reply. I have bought two
guide books, The Gunkholer's Guide to the West Coast of Florida, and
Cruising Florida's Big Bend. Both good books, but I have never seen a guide
book that tells you where the heck you can park you car and trailer while
gone, and I mean gone. I'm not heading back to this cold Northland (Duluth,
MN) until Spring appears :) ! The last time I was living aboard down there I
started from MN and went down the river system to Mobile and along the gulf
by boat all the way, so I did not have to deal with the car-trailer problem.
If any of you have any info, please let me know. otter55806@yahoo.
<mailto:otter55806%40yahoo.com> com
Thanks! Bob Slimak
---------------------------------
Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and
get things done faster.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> replaces all,or most,of the ballast.Dutch barges seemI'm curious if anyone here could comment on aluminum vs. steel construction? Are the
> to have been something like 6mm all round,with a
> rebottoming every 20 years or so.3mm seems to be about
> the minimum to get a fair weld,with reasonable
> corrosion resistance.Canada Goose,a 35yr old
> narrowboat I have a share in,was originally built with
> 1/4" bottom and 3/16" sides but since the bottom
> appears to be down to about 2mm in places we're
> looking at overplating with 6mm steel.Current
> narrowboat standards are 10/6/5/4mm -
benefits offset by the detriments? I saw a short blurb on Duckworks that got the idle brain
gears spinning (okay - slowly grinding).
Thanks,
Bill
Don I don't know if I'm a pro welder I just try hard
to do a nice job... For me pride in a job well done if
job one. It doesn't matter if it's aircraft tubing,
stainless boat rails, or a fishtote. Do the job right
the first time so you don't have to do it again and a
again!
With a steel boat you could fill the whole thing with
foam and not worry about it! But then comes where do
you put stuff..... you know little things like the
head and bunk and booz locker.... If you didn't want
then you could just sleep on deck, and have a boat
that would not sink no matter what happend. (Me just
being funny)
Blessings Krissie
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
to do a nice job... For me pride in a job well done if
job one. It doesn't matter if it's aircraft tubing,
stainless boat rails, or a fishtote. Do the job right
the first time so you don't have to do it again and a
again!
With a steel boat you could fill the whole thing with
foam and not worry about it! But then comes where do
you put stuff..... you know little things like the
head and bunk and booz locker.... If you didn't want
then you could just sleep on deck, and have a boat
that would not sink no matter what happend. (Me just
being funny)
Blessings Krissie
> I'd hire a pro (like Kristine) to do the most____________________________________________________________________________________
> important welds at the
> chines and major bulkheads. Pinhole leaks would be
> an ongoing
> irritation, but most would find their welding skills
> would get better
> and neater as the project progressed in getting the
> brackets in place.
>
> I would be concerned about getting sufficent
> floatation in place to
> keep her afloat if flooded, most likely by a
> knockdown. To me one
> real comfort of a well designed wood boat is that it
> becomes a raft if
> the worst occurs.
>
> Don
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett
> <femmpaws@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ahhhh I think 3/8 would be a LOT heavy! With a
> boat
> > about 30 feet 1/8 would be fine for mild steel or
> 3/16
> > if you are worried about it.
> >
>
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Bob I would think a week or two but don't take that as
gospal. I think you would be better to find a stoage
place to keep your car and boat. Also less likely to
have it broke into or stolen.
Krissie
--- Bob Slimak <otter55806@...> wrote:
Does anyone know what the limits are for
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
gospal. I think you would be better to find a stoage
place to keep your car and boat. Also less likely to
have it broke into or stolen.
Krissie
--- Bob Slimak <otter55806@...> wrote:
Does anyone know what the limits are for
> length of time you can park a car and boat trailer____________________________________________________________________________________
> while off cruising? I have emailed to Everglades
> and Biscayne and to the Florida State Parks but no
> one seems to bother to reply. I have bought two
> guide books, The Gunkholer's Guide to the West Coast
> of Florida, and Cruising Florida's Big Bend. Both
> good books, but I have never seen a guide book that
> tells you where the heck you can park you car and
> trailer while gone, and I mean gone. I'm not heading
> back to this cold Northland (Duluth, MN) until
> Spring appears :)
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Horses for courses.PCB shows half inch plate for the
bottom plate of Weston Martyr but I assume that this
replaces all,or most,of the ballast.Dutch barges seem
to have been something like 6mm all round,with a
rebottoming every 20 years or so.3mm seems to be about
the minimum to get a fair weld,with reasonable
corrosion resistance.Canada Goose,a 35yr old
narrowboat I have a share in,was originally built with
1/4" bottom and 3/16" sides but since the bottom
appears to be down to about 2mm in places we're
looking at overplating with 6mm steel.Current
narrowboat standards are 10/6/5/4mm -
bottom/sides/cabin/roof.Don't forget that a reasonable
size boat like the AS39 or LP has to displace a lot of
water to keep the propellor covered so you might as
well put the weight into the boat as into the
ballast.I've been theorizing about a 42' Aak type
sailing barge (think extended Schuyt Houseboat) and
you're looking about 10 tons per foot of displacement,
so for a 2'draft - you need some boat under the water
- you've got to find a lot of weight from somewhere
cheers
Andy Airey
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
bottom plate of Weston Martyr but I assume that this
replaces all,or most,of the ballast.Dutch barges seem
to have been something like 6mm all round,with a
rebottoming every 20 years or so.3mm seems to be about
the minimum to get a fair weld,with reasonable
corrosion resistance.Canada Goose,a 35yr old
narrowboat I have a share in,was originally built with
1/4" bottom and 3/16" sides but since the bottom
appears to be down to about 2mm in places we're
looking at overplating with 6mm steel.Current
narrowboat standards are 10/6/5/4mm -
bottom/sides/cabin/roof.Don't forget that a reasonable
size boat like the AS39 or LP has to displace a lot of
water to keep the propellor covered so you might as
well put the weight into the boat as into the
ballast.I've been theorizing about a 42' Aak type
sailing barge (think extended Schuyt Houseboat) and
you're looking about 10 tons per foot of displacement,
so for a 2'draft - you need some boat under the water
- you've got to find a lot of weight from somewhere
cheers
Andy Airey
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
Reading the essay in 30 Odd Boats, Bolger refers to the bottom
thickness as "real armour plate". I would guess the heavy bottom
doubles as ballast. If the weight must be there, Bolger has chosen
the best way to do it, placeing the ballast right where it should be
while adding tremendous durability and strength. It also saves
internal volume over any other ballast system.
He goes on to write the boat was designed to be built rightside up.
The bottom is a bit wider than the sides, making for easy welding on
the outside of the hull, and protecting the thinner sides. I didn't
study the drawings closely for the gage of the sides but I'll guess
1/8" as the builder complained they were floppy and hard to control
during the build. I remember the 100' sharpie freighter in BWAOM used
the same construction but all in even thicker steel. I recall there
being a surprisingly small amount of internal structural framing in
the 100 footer because of the heavy steel gauges selected.
One would cut many short pieces of angle iron and weld them about the
interior to bolt wood interior panels and deck framing in place.
Bulkheads would all be steel and welded in a smaller boat like this.
I'd hire a pro (like Kristine) to do the most important welds at the
chines and major bulkheads. Pinhole leaks would be an ongoing
irritation, but most would find their welding skills would get better
and neater as the project progressed in getting the brackets in place.
I would be concerned about getting sufficent floatation in place to
keep her afloat if flooded, most likely by a knockdown. To me one
real comfort of a well designed wood boat is that it becomes a raft if
the worst occurs.
Don
thickness as "real armour plate". I would guess the heavy bottom
doubles as ballast. If the weight must be there, Bolger has chosen
the best way to do it, placeing the ballast right where it should be
while adding tremendous durability and strength. It also saves
internal volume over any other ballast system.
He goes on to write the boat was designed to be built rightside up.
The bottom is a bit wider than the sides, making for easy welding on
the outside of the hull, and protecting the thinner sides. I didn't
study the drawings closely for the gage of the sides but I'll guess
1/8" as the builder complained they were floppy and hard to control
during the build. I remember the 100' sharpie freighter in BWAOM used
the same construction but all in even thicker steel. I recall there
being a surprisingly small amount of internal structural framing in
the 100 footer because of the heavy steel gauges selected.
One would cut many short pieces of angle iron and weld them about the
interior to bolt wood interior panels and deck framing in place.
Bulkheads would all be steel and welded in a smaller boat like this.
I'd hire a pro (like Kristine) to do the most important welds at the
chines and major bulkheads. Pinhole leaks would be an ongoing
irritation, but most would find their welding skills would get better
and neater as the project progressed in getting the brackets in place.
I would be concerned about getting sufficent floatation in place to
keep her afloat if flooded, most likely by a knockdown. To me one
real comfort of a well designed wood boat is that it becomes a raft if
the worst occurs.
Don
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Ahhhh I think 3/8 would be a LOT heavy! With a boat
> about 30 feet 1/8 would be fine for mild steel or 3/16
> if you are worried about it.
>
Bob --
You're living out my dream and perhaps that of half the Bolger list
members. What boat are you going to be living aboard? Please send as
much detail as possible for us housebound, snowbound,
school-and-kids-and-job-bound northerners.
I don't have answers about the parking, but in my long dreaming on
such matters, I've often imagined I could call a few marinas and see
if they would quote me a monthly parking rate. . . )
Fair winds,
Garth
(whose big trailer sailer is currently becalmed, up on blocks, under a
blue tarp, in a barn amid the snow in the Catskills . . .)
You're living out my dream and perhaps that of half the Bolger list
members. What boat are you going to be living aboard? Please send as
much detail as possible for us housebound, snowbound,
school-and-kids-and-job-bound northerners.
I don't have answers about the parking, but in my long dreaming on
such matters, I've often imagined I could call a few marinas and see
if they would quote me a monthly parking rate. . . )
Fair winds,
Garth
(whose big trailer sailer is currently becalmed, up on blocks, under a
blue tarp, in a barn amid the snow in the Catskills . . .)
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Bob Slimak <otter55806@...> wrote:
> I have bought two guide books, The Gunkholer's Guide to the West
Coast of Florida, and Cruising Florida's Big Bend. Both good books,
but I have never seen a guide book that tells you where the heck you
can park you car and trailer while gone, and I mean gone. I'm not
heading back to this cold Northland (Duluth, MN) until Spring appears
:) !
I don't know if some of you heard already about the "Hash House
Harriers" (HHH)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_House_Harriers-
said to be "drinkers with a running problem". Well, what about the
BBBs (Boat Builders Bunch)? ;)
Actually, for those who don't know the history of this argument:
I always insisted, that a juice is a liquid that you get by squeezing
a fruit, or, as Wikipedia writes: "Juice is a fluid naturally
contained in animal or plant tissue."
Tea on the other hand is a liquid that you get by adding some leaves,
fruit, herbs, etc. to water, heat (boil) it, then filter off the stuff
that you put in initially, and drink only the "treated, refined water".
It should therefore be clear, that the Baron's red liquid is juice,
while the light brown one is tea. At any rate, both seem well doing
their job as cooling and greasing agent. Hell, how I'd love to discuss
this in his boat shed.
Cheers,
Stefan
--- "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
Harriers" (HHH)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_House_Harriers-
said to be "drinkers with a running problem". Well, what about the
BBBs (Boat Builders Bunch)? ;)
Actually, for those who don't know the history of this argument:
I always insisted, that a juice is a liquid that you get by squeezing
a fruit, or, as Wikipedia writes: "Juice is a fluid naturally
contained in animal or plant tissue."
Tea on the other hand is a liquid that you get by adding some leaves,
fruit, herbs, etc. to water, heat (boil) it, then filter off the stuff
that you put in initially, and drink only the "treated, refined water".
It should therefore be clear, that the Baron's red liquid is juice,
while the light brown one is tea. At any rate, both seem well doing
their job as cooling and greasing agent. Hell, how I'd love to discuss
this in his boat shed.
Cheers,
Stefan
--- "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
> Actually,nothing is wrong with tea per se. In fact it can be a very
> soothing beverage in the proper context.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Patric Albutat" <albutat@...> wrote:
soothing beverage in the proper context.
However,it just so happened that we were discussing a Big Bolger Boat
and that all starts with the letter"B"......as in Beer :-)
Besides, who ever heard of pirates or boatbums celebrating
victories/discoveries various with a rousing toast of raised tea
cups......huh? :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, looking forward to the day when we discuss some of
Bolgers' Pretty Pirate Pinnaces......the Port will flow like the
mighty St.Lawrence, I tells ya..............
>Actually,nothing is wrong with tea per se. In fact it can be a very
> P.S.: what's wrong with tea?
>
soothing beverage in the proper context.
However,it just so happened that we were discussing a Big Bolger Boat
and that all starts with the letter"B"......as in Beer :-)
Besides, who ever heard of pirates or boatbums celebrating
victories/discoveries various with a rousing toast of raised tea
cups......huh? :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, looking forward to the day when we discuss some of
Bolgers' Pretty Pirate Pinnaces......the Port will flow like the
mighty St.Lawrence, I tells ya..............
The trouble is that steel weighs about 490 lb per cu.ft. Fir plywood
is 36 lb. per cu.ft. (Even teak is only 45 lb. per cu.ft.) So if the
the AS29 design called for 1/2" fir ply for the hull sides, the
equivalent weight of steel would be about 1/27" thick. It's a rule-of-
thumb that a steel hull can't be less than 1/8" thick, because
thinner material would not be stiff enough, nor thick enough to allow
for a little corrosion over time.
Motor car bodies are built of thinner steel, but they are formed with
expensive dies and presses into fairly tight compound curves, with
lots of creases and flanges that are there not just for appearance.
And of course they are not routinely immersed in salt water.
So building something the size of an AS29 out of steel would require
a complete re-design, to produce something of sufficient displacement
to take the extra weight. Plate aluminum, being 1/3 the density of
steel, would be a possibility.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@...>
wrote:
is 36 lb. per cu.ft. (Even teak is only 45 lb. per cu.ft.) So if the
the AS29 design called for 1/2" fir ply for the hull sides, the
equivalent weight of steel would be about 1/27" thick. It's a rule-of-
thumb that a steel hull can't be less than 1/8" thick, because
thinner material would not be stiff enough, nor thick enough to allow
for a little corrosion over time.
Motor car bodies are built of thinner steel, but they are formed with
expensive dies and presses into fairly tight compound curves, with
lots of creases and flanges that are there not just for appearance.
And of course they are not routinely immersed in salt water.
So building something the size of an AS29 out of steel would require
a complete re-design, to produce something of sufficient displacement
to take the extra weight. Plate aluminum, being 1/3 the density of
steel, would be a possibility.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "donschultz8275" <donschultz@...>
wrote:
>AS-
> I would guess the Lions Paw could serve as a guide to how a steel
> 29 could/should be built re steel gauge/thickness.
It's OK to boil the hops, as long as you first boil the grains and malt. Add the hops, boil some more, add the finishing hops then>>>>>>>>> you get the idea. That is the one thing that gets me about spending months on a small boat. No room to brew my own. Speaking of Florida, any of you Floridians know of any good micro breweries? Since I can't brew my own.
While I'm looking for info from Floridians, here's another. Does anyone know what the limits are for length of time you can park a car and boat trailer while off cruising? I have emailed to Everglades and Biscayne and to the Florida State Parks but no one seems to bother to reply. I have bought two guide books, The Gunkholer's Guide to the West Coast of Florida, and Cruising Florida's Big Bend. Both good books, but I have never seen a guide book that tells you where the heck you can park you car and trailer while gone, and I mean gone. I'm not heading back to this cold Northland (Duluth, MN) until Spring appears :) ! The last time I was living aboard down there I started from MN and went down the river system to Mobile and along the gulf by boat all the way, so I did not have to deal with the car-trailer problem.
If any of you have any info, please let me know.otter55806@...
Thanks! Bob Slimak
---------------------------------
Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
While I'm looking for info from Floridians, here's another. Does anyone know what the limits are for length of time you can park a car and boat trailer while off cruising? I have emailed to Everglades and Biscayne and to the Florida State Parks but no one seems to bother to reply. I have bought two guide books, The Gunkholer's Guide to the West Coast of Florida, and Cruising Florida's Big Bend. Both good books, but I have never seen a guide book that tells you where the heck you can park you car and trailer while gone, and I mean gone. I'm not heading back to this cold Northland (Duluth, MN) until Spring appears :) ! The last time I was living aboard down there I started from MN and went down the river system to Mobile and along the gulf by boat all the way, so I did not have to deal with the car-trailer problem.
If any of you have any info, please let me know.otter55806@...
Thanks! Bob Slimak
---------------------------------
Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ahhhh I think 3/8 would be a LOT heavy! With a boat
about 30 feet 1/8 would be fine for mild steel or 3/16
if you are worried about it.
The older LCM 6 were only 1/8 and they were 56 feet
long and 14 feet wide. They would carry 20 or 25 tons
as I remember.
Blessings Krissie
--- donschultz8275 <donschultz@...> wrote:
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about 30 feet 1/8 would be fine for mild steel or 3/16
if you are worried about it.
The older LCM 6 were only 1/8 and they were 56 feet
long and 14 feet wide. They would carry 20 or 25 tons
as I remember.
Blessings Krissie
--- donschultz8275 <donschultz@...> wrote:
> I would guess the Lions Paw could serve as a guide____________________________________________________________________________________
> to how a steel AS-
> 29 could/should be built re steel gauge/thickness.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama"
> <goadarama@...> wrote:
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Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
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How does one top this? Or should one even try??!! My
day has been in the dumps and I need to thank you for
the laugh and big smile you have put on my face and in
my heart as well!
Peter you have great wit and it is very much enjoyed.
Blessings to you all!
Krissie
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
day has been in the dumps and I need to thank you for
the laugh and big smile you have put on my face and in
my heart as well!
Peter you have great wit and it is very much enjoyed.
Blessings to you all!
Krissie
>____________________________________________________________________________________
> Dear Stefan,
> Oh where,oh where have we failed you?! This is
> not the first
> time you have suggested wasting wonderful glorious
> hops on something
> as pedestrian as tea...you should abandon this
> craziness,tout
> suit,and follow the true pirates path!
> Arrrh! Matey! A full helpful case of cold beer
> at the very
> least to fuel the fevered visions of far-away shores
> and pristine
> beaches awaiting our plundering ways in a vessel
> wrought by our own
> hands :-)
> And if not plundering, then
> "muscle-in-a-bottle" to infuse us
> with preternatural strength to drag yet another
> piece to the
> workbench and release from the chunk its' true
> form.Worse case
> scenarios also include"courage-in-a-bottle" for
> those special days
> when we simply cannot find it in our deepest darkest
> soul to haul
> our sorry asses to the shop. But alas, haul we must
> and toil we do
> for how else shall we ever achieve our crazy dreams
> of luxuriating
> in splendor away from the pesky details of life
> ashore?
> However, if you really insist and cannot find
> any other use for
> hops,then so be it. It is not like we haven't tied
> to be helpful :-D
> Just don't come running when all hells breaking
> loose and you're
> wonder why :-D.....
>
> Cheers to you my friend!!
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Peter Hop Crazy Lenihan,from along the shores of the
> dark,cold and
> windy St.Lawrence..............
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
I would guess the Lions Paw could serve as a guide to how a steel AS-
29 could/should be built re steel gauge/thickness.
29 could/should be built re steel gauge/thickness.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@...> wrote:
>
> Saw the Lions Paw sharpie this weekend: sitting in a pasture in
> Quincy, Florida not far from where it was built years ago.
>
> Beautiful hull with steel still intact due to zinc spraying. There's
> nothing like walking around, climbing over, and sitting in a hull to
> really grasp the space. It's original 1/2" ply (flush) deck is
rotting
> out but it's pretty impressive inside. The 3/8ths bottom plate looks
> capable of grinding forever on about anything it'll settle down on
on
> a falling tide.
Now this sounds interesting. Mouthwatering even:
a junk rigged Bolger. But alas, no photos!
How naughty!
Patric
P.S.: what's wrong with tea?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
a junk rigged Bolger. But alas, no photos!
How naughty!
Patric
P.S.: what's wrong with tea?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> And just so you don't think this is all fun and games,you'll have toOkay...I'll chime in. I second the plea for us visually oriented, visually deprived (depraved?)
> have a drink for each forum member that chimes in,voting in favour of
> a return trip,WITH CAMERA!
Northern folk. Pictures please!
Bill (with Black Skimmer plans and no plywood yet)
Once upon a time, I gave thought to writing up a fantasy called the
Bolger Rental Fleet in which I posited a marina with an example of
every Bolger design available for rent. A Bolger fan could spend a day
with any and every Bolger design that met his fancy.
In the writeup, I thought of focusing on the Whalewatcher, but in real
life, I think the one Bolger design that I would really like to try
out is Lion's Paw. It has all the old-time Bolger features of sharpie
hull, leeboards, Bolger-proportioned schooner rig in a real seagoing
size, and with a wonderful, old-time nautical air.
Bolger Rental Fleet in which I posited a marina with an example of
every Bolger design available for rent. A Bolger fan could spend a day
with any and every Bolger design that met his fancy.
In the writeup, I thought of focusing on the Whalewatcher, but in real
life, I think the one Bolger design that I would really like to try
out is Lion's Paw. It has all the old-time Bolger features of sharpie
hull, leeboards, Bolger-proportioned schooner rig in a real seagoing
size, and with a wonderful, old-time nautical air.
I guess it must still look much the same as the b&w photo in 30-Odd
Boats, no? If you can't easily return I wonder if Alan B might send
you some pics, and then you might be able to post?
I'd like to see those chine excrescences closer. They may cut
turbulence, I wonder about leeway a la another certain boat in Florida.
Have a drink in any case ;)
Cheers
Graeme
Boats, no? If you can't easily return I wonder if Alan B might send
you some pics, and then you might be able to post?
I'd like to see those chine excrescences closer. They may cut
turbulence, I wonder about leeway a la another certain boat in Florida.
Have a drink in any case ;)
Cheers
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Probst" <stefan.probst@...>
wrote:
Dear Stefan,
Oh where,oh where have we failed you?! This is not the first
time you have suggested wasting wonderful glorious hops on something
as pedestrian as tea...you should abandon this craziness,tout
suit,and follow the true pirates path!
Arrrh! Matey! A full helpful case of cold beer at the very
least to fuel the fevered visions of far-away shores and pristine
beaches awaiting our plundering ways in a vessel wrought by our own
hands :-)
And if not plundering, then "muscle-in-a-bottle" to infuse us
with preternatural strength to drag yet another piece to the
workbench and release from the chunk its' true form.Worse case
scenarios also include"courage-in-a-bottle" for those special days
when we simply cannot find it in our deepest darkest soul to haul
our sorry asses to the shop. But alas, haul we must and toil we do
for how else shall we ever achieve our crazy dreams of luxuriating
in splendor away from the pesky details of life ashore?
However, if you really insist and cannot find any other use for
hops,then so be it. It is not like we haven't tied to be helpful :-D
Just don't come running when all hells breaking loose and you're
wonder why :-D.....
Cheers to you my friend!!
Sincerely,
Peter Hop Crazy Lenihan,from along the shores of the dark,cold and
windy St.Lawrence..............
wrote:
>> I however would suggest not to squeeze hop to get the juice, butto
> add some water, boil it, let it cool ... and wait ... to get hoptea. ;)
Dear Stefan,
Oh where,oh where have we failed you?! This is not the first
time you have suggested wasting wonderful glorious hops on something
as pedestrian as tea...you should abandon this craziness,tout
suit,and follow the true pirates path!
Arrrh! Matey! A full helpful case of cold beer at the very
least to fuel the fevered visions of far-away shores and pristine
beaches awaiting our plundering ways in a vessel wrought by our own
hands :-)
And if not plundering, then "muscle-in-a-bottle" to infuse us
with preternatural strength to drag yet another piece to the
workbench and release from the chunk its' true form.Worse case
scenarios also include"courage-in-a-bottle" for those special days
when we simply cannot find it in our deepest darkest soul to haul
our sorry asses to the shop. But alas, haul we must and toil we do
for how else shall we ever achieve our crazy dreams of luxuriating
in splendor away from the pesky details of life ashore?
However, if you really insist and cannot find any other use for
hops,then so be it. It is not like we haven't tied to be helpful :-D
Just don't come running when all hells breaking loose and you're
wonder why :-D.....
Cheers to you my friend!!
Sincerely,
Peter Hop Crazy Lenihan,from along the shores of the dark,cold and
windy St.Lawrence..............
Gee you tease and taunt us and then you FORGET THE
CAMERA!!! You should be beaten! Hmmm maybe not you may
just enjoy it... after all you are into boats and for
some they are submissive to their boat.
It's a shame to hear about a nice looking boat that is
just sitting and may never see the water.
Blessings To all
Krissie
--- goadarama <goadarama@...> wrote:
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Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
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CAMERA!!! You should be beaten! Hmmm maybe not you may
just enjoy it... after all you are into boats and for
some they are submissive to their boat.
It's a shame to hear about a nice looking boat that is
just sitting and may never see the water.
Blessings To all
Krissie
--- goadarama <goadarama@...> wrote:
> Saw the Lions Paw sharpie this weekend: sitting in a____________________________________________________________________________________
> pasture in
> Quincy, Florida not far from where it was built
> years ago.
>
> Sure wish I'd have remembered to take the digital
> camera. Anyway....
> that's a Lions paw update for Bolger sharpie fans.
>
>
Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
--- "Peter Lenihan" <peterlenihan@...> wrote:
add some water, boil it, let it cool ... and wait ... to get hop tea. ;)
Cheers,
Stefan
> And just so you don't think this is all fun and games, you'll have toYEA!
> have a drink for each forum member that chimes in, voting in favour
> a case of hop juice seeking forgivenessI however would suggest not to squeeze hop to get the juice, but to
add some water, boil it, let it cool ... and wait ... to get hop tea. ;)
Cheers,
Stefan
No photos? Sigh... Though, thanks for the report.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "goadarama" <goadarama@...> wrote:
to take the digital camera. Anyway....
steel
hull" and "pretty impressive inside" about a much talked about Bolger
sharpie featured in one of His out-of-print books and forget your
camera?!
This will not do!
I know this will sound utterly ridiculous for us northern folks
suffering the beginnings of a real winter but,dear goadarama,your
penance for such a naughty forgetful thing will be to return under a
blazing warm Florida sun,surrounded by greenery, and to take some
pictures just so us visual types don't get ta thinkin' that you is
havin' us on! :-D
And just so you don't think this is all fun and games,you'll have to
have a drink for each forum member that chimes in,voting in favour of
a return trip,WITH CAMERA!
You have been warned and challenged,Sir! :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, wishing I had the burden of such a penance,in
Florida,surrounded by greenery,heat and a case of hop juice seeking
forgiveness...Lordy!.....from along the miserable shores of the
mighty
St.Lawrence
>There's
> Saw the Lions Paw sharpie this weekend: sitting in a pasture in
> Quincy, Florida not far from where it was built years ago.
>
> Beautiful hull with steel still intact due to zinc spraying.
> nothing like walking around, climbing over, and sitting in a hullto
> really grasp the space. It's original 1/2" ply (flush) deck isrotting
> out but it's pretty impressive inside.> Sure wish I'd haveremembered
to take the digital camera. Anyway....
> that's a Lions paw update for Bolger sharpie fans.Well now.....idindatnice! You tease us with things like"beautiful
steel
hull" and "pretty impressive inside" about a much talked about Bolger
sharpie featured in one of His out-of-print books and forget your
camera?!
This will not do!
I know this will sound utterly ridiculous for us northern folks
suffering the beginnings of a real winter but,dear goadarama,your
penance for such a naughty forgetful thing will be to return under a
blazing warm Florida sun,surrounded by greenery, and to take some
pictures just so us visual types don't get ta thinkin' that you is
havin' us on! :-D
And just so you don't think this is all fun and games,you'll have to
have a drink for each forum member that chimes in,voting in favour of
a return trip,WITH CAMERA!
You have been warned and challenged,Sir! :-D
Sincerely,
Peter Lenihan, wishing I had the burden of such a penance,in
Florida,surrounded by greenery,heat and a case of hop juice seeking
forgiveness...Lordy!.....from along the miserable shores of the
mighty
St.Lawrence
>
Saw the Lions Paw sharpie this weekend: sitting in a pasture in
Quincy, Florida not far from where it was built years ago.
Beautiful hull with steel still intact due to zinc spraying. There's
nothing like walking around, climbing over, and sitting in a hull to
really grasp the space. It's original 1/2" ply (flush) deck is rotting
out but it's pretty impressive inside. The 3/8ths bottom plate looks
capable of grinding forever on about anything it'll settle down on on
a falling tide.
The original owner-builder, Allan Bostick, was there to show it to us
and I hope he forges on ahead with the project because such a
beautiful hull needs to be launched and used. He had laid in a junk
rig for the hull but just never got around to putting it on. A huge
China diesel sits inside and the crank still turns.
Sure wish I'd have remembered to take the digital camera. Anyway....
that's a Lions paw update for Bolger sharpie fans.
Quincy, Florida not far from where it was built years ago.
Beautiful hull with steel still intact due to zinc spraying. There's
nothing like walking around, climbing over, and sitting in a hull to
really grasp the space. It's original 1/2" ply (flush) deck is rotting
out but it's pretty impressive inside. The 3/8ths bottom plate looks
capable of grinding forever on about anything it'll settle down on on
a falling tide.
The original owner-builder, Allan Bostick, was there to show it to us
and I hope he forges on ahead with the project because such a
beautiful hull needs to be launched and used. He had laid in a junk
rig for the hull but just never got around to putting it on. A huge
China diesel sits inside and the crank still turns.
Sure wish I'd have remembered to take the digital camera. Anyway....
that's a Lions paw update for Bolger sharpie fans.