Re: [bolger] Re: Lapstrake, Single Handed Schooner-- Sue Davis?
I was going through back emails and came across this one , part of a conversation that Bruce started with as lapstrake version of the single handed schooner. I had blown right by the Watertribe part.
So how serious a contender could a Singlehanded Schooner be? You could sleep one crew at a time, you could row effectively. You could hang serious amounts of sail out off the wind in light airs. The one shortcoming would be going to windward in light going, might be able to compensate with rowing. You could maybe lighten up the scantlings with the lapstrake construction.
There are vets of the Florida Everglades challenge on the list,maybe they could comment.
HJ
Could you rig a seat in the back and row?You can, and that's job #1 on my list for spring commissioning in a couple of months. I'm hoping to enter her in the Watertribe one of these years. There's just enough room to set up a sliding rowing seat, and you can brace your feet against bulkhead "D". The one problem (other than general heaviness) is that the mainmast and mainmast partner prevent you from leaning back enough for good rowing form over a long distance -- I plan to use rowing strictly as auxiliary propulsion, for getting back in to the mooring area when the wind has died completely. One of these years, I may try an experiment with a yuloh....
> I'm curious, Susan, have you ever reboarded from the water with orI have, mostly from chest-deep water rather than water over my head.
> without assistance?
In general, her low freeboard helps reboarding, but crawling over the
cockpit coaming to get directly from the water to the aft cockpit is a
bit of a pain. Getting aboard amidships between the cockpits is a
little easier. Unlike unballasted dinghies, you don't need to board
her over the stern; it's just fine to board amidships where the
freeboard is lowest.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Where I live the water temp. of the big lake is commonly in the low 50s F during the summer. I think it cracks 60 sometimes, but it depends on the direction of the surface winds and whether or not it the water has turned over. I give a lot of consideration to water temp. I'm curious, Susan, have you ever reboarded from the water with or without assistance?
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Davis
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:07 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Lapstrake, Single Handed Schooner-- Sue Davis?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> You sail it in cold water, correct?
I haven't had her out in really cold conditions yet, but I did build
her with three-season camping in mind. One issue to consider: the
cockpit soles that you sit and sleep on are the hull itself, which is
in direct contact with the water; in chilly conditions, you'll want
some insulation. (I generally sit on a Type IV anyway.)
> From reading I would gather it
> is quite a bit different than a Light Schooner. The LS being more of
> a hang on to your hats,and bring extra crew who can swim and the
> SHS-- spritley performance but manageable handling.
She's remarkably stable when the wind pipes up, and when she does
start to get knocked down, she does it in slow motion, giving you a
lot of time to react to prevent the knockdown. The split rig puts the
center of effort down low, and the largest sail is no bigger than the
sail on a Cartopper or Teal. And you have lots of good options for
shortening sail, or even heaving to entirely.
So yes, she can stand up to a remarkably fearsome amount of wind for
such a small boat, if handled prudently.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What I meant by cold water was not so much the air temp but the water
temp, always an issue here in AK. It sounds like it isn't an issue with
prudent handling. Thank you again for the answers. I am not sure if
anything will come of this, I will propose a group build for next winter
to the Juneau Non-organized Semi-pro Boatbuilders Association.
HJ
Susan Davis wrote:
temp, always an issue here in AK. It sounds like it isn't an issue with
prudent handling. Thank you again for the answers. I am not sure if
anything will come of this, I will propose a group build for next winter
to the Juneau Non-organized Semi-pro Boatbuilders Association.
HJ
Susan Davis wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
>> You sail it in cold water, correct?
>>
>
> I haven't had her out in really cold conditions yet, but I did build
> her with three-season camping in mind. One issue to consider: the
> cockpit soles that you sit and sleep on are the hull itself, which is
> in direct contact with the water; in chilly conditions, you'll want
> some insulation. (I generally sit on a Type IV anyway.)
>
>
>> From reading I would gather it
>> is quite a bit different than a Light Schooner. The LS being more of
>> a hang on to your hats,and bring extra crew who can swim and the
>> SHS-- spritley performance but manageable handling.
>>
>
> She's remarkably stable when the wind pipes up, and when she does
> start to get knocked down, she does it in slow motion, giving you a
> lot of time to react to prevent the knockdown. The split rig puts the
> center of effort down low, and the largest sail is no bigger than the
> sail on a Cartopper or Teal. And you have lots of good options for
> shortening sail, or even heaving to entirely.
>
> So yes, she can stand up to a remarkably fearsome amount of wind for
> such a small boat, if handled prudently.
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
her with three-season camping in mind. One issue to consider: the
cockpit soles that you sit and sleep on are the hull itself, which is
in direct contact with the water; in chilly conditions, you'll want
some insulation. (I generally sit on a Type IV anyway.)
start to get knocked down, she does it in slow motion, giving you a
lot of time to react to prevent the knockdown. The split rig puts the
center of effort down low, and the largest sail is no bigger than the
sail on a Cartopper or Teal. And you have lots of good options for
shortening sail, or even heaving to entirely.
So yes, she can stand up to a remarkably fearsome amount of wind for
such a small boat, if handled prudently.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>I haven't had her out in really cold conditions yet, but I did build
> You sail it in cold water, correct?
her with three-season camping in mind. One issue to consider: the
cockpit soles that you sit and sleep on are the hull itself, which is
in direct contact with the water; in chilly conditions, you'll want
some insulation. (I generally sit on a Type IV anyway.)
> From reading I would gather itShe's remarkably stable when the wind pipes up, and when she does
> is quite a bit different than a Light Schooner. The LS being more of
> a hang on to your hats,and bring extra crew who can swim and the
> SHS-- spritley performance but manageable handling.
start to get knocked down, she does it in slow motion, giving you a
lot of time to react to prevent the knockdown. The split rig puts the
center of effort down low, and the largest sail is no bigger than the
sail on a Cartopper or Teal. And you have lots of good options for
shortening sail, or even heaving to entirely.
So yes, she can stand up to a remarkably fearsome amount of wind for
such a small boat, if handled prudently.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Sue
Another question
You sail it in cold water, correct?
Do you have any safety thoughts on that. From reading I would gather it
is quite a bit different than a Light Schooner. The LS being more of a
hang on to your hats,and bring extra crew who can swim and the SHS--
spritley performance but manageable handling.
HJ
Another question
You sail it in cold water, correct?
Do you have any safety thoughts on that. From reading I would gather it
is quite a bit different than a Light Schooner. The LS being more of a
hang on to your hats,and bring extra crew who can swim and the SHS--
spritley performance but manageable handling.
HJ
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
existing design is just as pretty (though not on paper -- the original
design looks infinitely better in the water than on the drawing
board), and a lot less work.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>Yes, it's very pretty. I'm a little biased, though; I think that the
> Thank you very much for your answer, did you see Bruce's proposal
> for a Lapstrake version?
existing design is just as pretty (though not on paper -- the original
design looks infinitely better in the water than on the drawing
board), and a lot less work.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Sue
Thank you very much for your answer, did you see Bruce's proposal for a
Lapstrake version?
HJ
Susan Davis wrote:
Thank you very much for your answer, did you see Bruce's proposal for a
Lapstrake version?
HJ
Susan Davis wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
>> I have figure out a couple
>> of ways to get the board up so it doesn't protrude from the bottom,
>> but what do you do about the rudder?
>>
>
> The rudder is on a retractable cartridge that comes up more easily
> than the daggerboard does. I keep mine on a mooring, and for
> cruising, I think I'd tow a Tortoise and anchor rather than regularly
> beaching, but it's certainly doable, if less convenient, to retract
> both blades and row or paddle onto the beach. That's exactly what I
> do when I recover her onto my trailer.
>
>
>> How about sailing, how does it handle.
>>
>
> Beautifully. Really, really beautifully. She's dry and comfortable,
> tracks dead straight, and feels peppy both on her own merits and
> because you're down so low near the water.
>
>
>> Can you camp in the front cockpit?
>>
>
> Yep. That's what the boat was designed for -- the forward cockpit is
> meant to be a separate watertight space with 6 1/2 feet of room for
> sleeping. My partner and I have discovered that she and I have just
> barely enough room to snuggle up there, but it's really meant for one.
> For one, it's nicely roomy.
>
> A few more inches of freeboard -- or a Centennial II or Storm
> Petrel-style trunk cabin -- might make her roomy enough for two
> non-snugglers up there, but at the cost of spoiling her looks. The
> issue is that the freeboard is so low that you can only sleep on your
> side if you're in the way of the cockpit. For Amanda and me, it's
> enough; we normally sleep wrapped around each other. :-)
>
>
>> Could you rig a seat in the back and row?
>>
>
> You can, and that's job #1 on my list for spring commissioning in a
> couple of months. I'm hoping to enter her in the Watertribe one of
> these years. There's just enough room to set up a sliding rowing
> seat, and you can brace your feet against bulkhead "D". The one
> problem (other than general heaviness) is that the mainmast and
> mainmast partner prevent you from leaning back enough for good rowing
> form over a long distance -- I plan to use rowing strictly as
> auxiliary propulsion, for getting back in to the mooring area when the
> wind has died completely.
>
> One of these years, I may try an experiment with a yuloh....
>
>
> The William D. Jochems schooner -- start with a Light Schooner, andA good recipe, but you forgot to add "Enjoy!"
> add water ballast, a Birdwatcher cabin, and leeboards, among other
> things.
My mistake. There is an often discussed design feature, the
"offcenterboard". I guess I should refresh my memory with a little
background research before I spout!
V/R
Chris
The William D. Jochems schooner -- start with a Light Schooner, and
add water ballast, a Birdwatcher cabin, and leeboards, among other
things. Bjorn Harbo has one.
It isn't derived from the SHS, by the way.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
"offcenterboard". I guess I should refresh my memory with a little
background research before I spout!
V/R
Chris
The William D. Jochems schooner -- start with a Light Schooner, and
add water ballast, a Birdwatcher cabin, and leeboards, among other
things. Bjorn Harbo has one.
It isn't derived from the SHS, by the way.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
add water ballast, a Birdwatcher cabin, and leeboards, among other
things. Bjorn Harbo has one.
It isn't derived from the SHS, by the way.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>The William D. Jochems schooner -- start with a Light Schooner, and
> What is "WDJ"?, Clyde
add water ballast, a Birdwatcher cabin, and leeboards, among other
things. Bjorn Harbo has one.
It isn't derived from the SHS, by the way.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
What is "WDJ"?, Clyde
Christopher Wetherill wrote:
Christopher Wetherill wrote:
> I have been pondering the subject of daggerboards, centerboards,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> sleeping space, and kickback rudders. Suddenly it occurred to me. When
> one makes these mods to a SHS, one winds up with a WDJ. That's what I
> want to build someday anyway. I think I will start small however, maybe
> a windsprint with a deck. A centerboard would be nice too... [This is a
> do loop for any old FORTRAN programmers out there].
>
> V/R
> Chris
>
> Bob Chamberland wrote:
> > Concerning the discussion of daggerboards, I've had boats with
> > daggerboards and I've had boats with centerboards and fixed keels. My
> > preference would be to avoid a daggerboard at almost any cost.
> > Especially in shoaling waters daggarboards are a pain in the neck.
> > They either catch or if you lift them you have the daggerboard
> > conflicting with the boom. They still require a box which was the bane
> > of the centerboard. The so called simplicity is just not worth it.
> > With epoxy and glass construction it is possible to develop a
> > centerboard box that will not leak at the pivot. (see Bobcat).
> > Daggerboards are an accident waiting to happen. Of course, off shore
> > it doesn't matter since the board would always be down.
> >
> > Bob Chamberland
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging
> dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930,
> Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:bolger-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
> > - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
I have been pondering the subject of daggerboards, centerboards,
sleeping space, and kickback rudders. Suddenly it occurred to me. When
one makes these mods to a SHS, one winds up with a WDJ. That's what I
want to build someday anyway. I think I will start small however, maybe
a windsprint with a deck. A centerboard would be nice too... [This is a
do loop for any old FORTRAN programmers out there].
V/R
Chris
Bob Chamberland wrote:
sleeping space, and kickback rudders. Suddenly it occurred to me. When
one makes these mods to a SHS, one winds up with a WDJ. That's what I
want to build someday anyway. I think I will start small however, maybe
a windsprint with a deck. A centerboard would be nice too... [This is a
do loop for any old FORTRAN programmers out there].
V/R
Chris
Bob Chamberland wrote:
> Concerning the discussion of daggerboards, I've had boats with
> daggerboards and I've had boats with centerboards and fixed keels. My
> preference would be to avoid a daggerboard at almost any cost.
> Especially in shoaling waters daggarboards are a pain in the neck.
> They either catch or if you lift them you have the daggerboard
> conflicting with the boom. They still require a box which was the bane
> of the centerboard. The so called simplicity is just not worth it.
> With epoxy and glass construction it is possible to develop a
> centerboard box that will not leak at the pivot. (see Bobcat).
> Daggerboards are an accident waiting to happen. Of course, off shore
> it doesn't matter since the board would always be down.
>
> Bob Chamberland
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
One could also build a boom crutch for the foresail boom. 3-point
support is more stable.
I have begun thinking about setting up a centerboard well slightly
off-center to clear the main mast and using a piece of stainless plate.
I live in coal mine country, so there's a lot of it around.
V/R
Chris
Bruce Hallman wrote:
support is more stable.
I have begun thinking about setting up a centerboard well slightly
off-center to clear the main mast and using a piece of stainless plate.
I live in coal mine country, so there's a lot of it around.
V/R
Chris
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>> PCB mentions that Tony Groves built an A-frame hoist,
>>
>
> Seems to me that a pair of oars, connected with a bit of lashing,
> would suit just fine as an "A-frame" to use as a hoist.
>
>
>
> PCB mentions that Tony Groves built an A-frame hoist,Seems to me that a pair of oars, connected with a bit of lashing,
would suit just fine as an "A-frame" to use as a hoist.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
PCB mentions that Tony Groves built an A-frame hoist, normally left
ashore, to handle the chore on his boat. If one were needed regularly
somewhere remote, I suppose that one that breaks down could be
constructed, and the pieces stored under the foredeck, or on deck
somewhere.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>That's been my experience.
> > The challenge is to stand on the deck of a narrow boat and raise
> > the ballasted board from your feet to your shoulders (and raising
> > the associated weight, increasing the height of the center of
> > gravity) without falling overboard or capsizing the boat.
>
> Good point, though at 4 feet, that boat is perhaps just wide enough.
> Failing that, I see the main mast is located just aft of the board,I'm a little leery of putting that much stress on an unstayed mast.
> and would provide good purchase for a pulley hoist to lift the board.
PCB mentions that Tony Groves built an A-frame hoist, normally left
ashore, to handle the chore on his boat. If one were needed regularly
somewhere remote, I suppose that one that breaks down could be
constructed, and the pieces stored under the foredeck, or on deck
somewhere.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
"Bob Chamberland" <chamberlands@...> wrote:
exposed coastlines in deep water, and she does that job very well.
She's meant to be a keelboat that can be broken down for beaching or
carriage on a bunk trailer, rather than a centerboard boat. I might
choose a different design if I were primarily sailing in shallow water.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>That's the point on this boat -- she's designed for running along
> Of course, off shore it doesn't matter since the board would always be
> down.
exposed coastlines in deep water, and she does that job very well.
She's meant to be a keelboat that can be broken down for beaching or
carriage on a bunk trailer, rather than a centerboard boat. I might
choose a different design if I were primarily sailing in shallow water.
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
than the daggerboard does. I keep mine on a mooring, and for
cruising, I think I'd tow a Tortoise and anchor rather than regularly
beaching, but it's certainly doable, if less convenient, to retract
both blades and row or paddle onto the beach. That's exactly what I
do when I recover her onto my trailer.
tracks dead straight, and feels peppy both on her own merits and
because you're down so low near the water.
meant to be a separate watertight space with 6 1/2 feet of room for
sleeping. My partner and I have discovered that she and I have just
barely enough room to snuggle up there, but it's really meant for one.
For one, it's nicely roomy.
A few more inches of freeboard -- or a Centennial II or Storm
Petrel-style trunk cabin -- might make her roomy enough for two
non-snugglers up there, but at the cost of spoiling her looks. The
issue is that the freeboard is so low that you can only sleep on your
side if you're in the way of the cockpit. For Amanda and me, it's
enough; we normally sleep wrapped around each other. :-)
couple of months. I'm hoping to enter her in the Watertribe one of
these years. There's just enough room to set up a sliding rowing
seat, and you can brace your feet against bulkhead "D". The one
problem (other than general heaviness) is that the mainmast and
mainmast partner prevent you from leaning back enough for good rowing
form over a long distance -- I plan to use rowing strictly as
auxiliary propulsion, for getting back in to the mooring area when the
wind has died completely.
One of these years, I may try an experiment with a yuloh....
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>The rudder is on a retractable cartridge that comes up more easily
> I have figure out a couple
> of ways to get the board up so it doesn't protrude from the bottom,
> but what do you do about the rudder?
than the daggerboard does. I keep mine on a mooring, and for
cruising, I think I'd tow a Tortoise and anchor rather than regularly
beaching, but it's certainly doable, if less convenient, to retract
both blades and row or paddle onto the beach. That's exactly what I
do when I recover her onto my trailer.
> How about sailing, how does it handle.Beautifully. Really, really beautifully. She's dry and comfortable,
tracks dead straight, and feels peppy both on her own merits and
because you're down so low near the water.
> Can you camp in the front cockpit?Yep. That's what the boat was designed for -- the forward cockpit is
meant to be a separate watertight space with 6 1/2 feet of room for
sleeping. My partner and I have discovered that she and I have just
barely enough room to snuggle up there, but it's really meant for one.
For one, it's nicely roomy.
A few more inches of freeboard -- or a Centennial II or Storm
Petrel-style trunk cabin -- might make her roomy enough for two
non-snugglers up there, but at the cost of spoiling her looks. The
issue is that the freeboard is so low that you can only sleep on your
side if you're in the way of the cockpit. For Amanda and me, it's
enough; we normally sleep wrapped around each other. :-)
> Could you rig a seat in the back and row?You can, and that's job #1 on my list for spring commissioning in a
couple of months. I'm hoping to enter her in the Watertribe one of
these years. There's just enough room to set up a sliding rowing
seat, and you can brace your feet against bulkhead "D". The one
problem (other than general heaviness) is that the mainmast and
mainmast partner prevent you from leaning back enough for good rowing
form over a long distance -- I plan to use rowing strictly as
auxiliary propulsion, for getting back in to the mooring area when the
wind has died completely.
One of these years, I may try an experiment with a yuloh....
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
black belt in Tae Kwon Do... but I don't find it to be all that
difficult, *and* I used 50% more lead than the plans called for, by
filling the entire 1 1/2" of the frame rather than just one inch.
(The boat really seems to like the effect of the additional ballast.)
There's enough friction to allow the process to be paused part of the
way up, and the little shelf formed at the bottom of the trunk gives a
spot to park the thing in place but retracted, letting you move around
and use both hands to insert the fid.
-- Sue --
(sorry, I've been busy and away from the list for a couple of weeks)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
>Yes, that's exactly what I do. Of course, I'm a big girl and I have a
> > The ballasted daggerboard is about the same thing as a lifting keel.
> > It is heavy, unweildy, not located in an ergonomically favorable
> > location.
>
> I see that the daggerboard is located right in the middle of the
> center deck, and I imagine you could stand right above it an use your
> leg muscles when lifting it, no?
black belt in Tae Kwon Do... but I don't find it to be all that
difficult, *and* I used 50% more lead than the plans called for, by
filling the entire 1 1/2" of the frame rather than just one inch.
(The boat really seems to like the effect of the additional ballast.)
There's enough friction to allow the process to be paused part of the
way up, and the little shelf formed at the bottom of the trunk gives a
spot to park the thing in place but retracted, letting you move around
and use both hands to insert the fid.
-- Sue --
(sorry, I've been busy and away from the list for a couple of weeks)
--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Clyde,
The main mast and the pilot sit there!
Sincerely,
Gene T.
"A house ashore is but a boat, so poorly
built it will not float ---- "
----- Original Message ----
From: Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:23:07 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Lapstrake, Single Handed Schooner
If this dagger board is such a bear, couldn't you make it into a
centerboard? Clyde
lakepepinmollyblue wrote:
Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The main mast and the pilot sit there!
Sincerely,
Gene T.
"A house ashore is but a boat, so poorly
built it will not float ---- "
----- Original Message ----
From: Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:23:07 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Lapstrake, Single Handed Schooner
If this dagger board is such a bear, couldn't you make it into a
centerboard? Clyde
lakepepinmollyblue wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>, Harry[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> James <welshman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Bolger wisp? Where is that one on line?
> >
>http://www.cullisonsmallcraft.com/Past%20Projects.htm
> <http://www.cullisonsmallcraft.com/Past%20Projects.htm>
>
> Picture of the Wisp "Casper" sailing.
>
> Bob
>
>
Bolger rules!!!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I doubt it, Clyde.
The heavy ballast weight has to be slung low under the boat, so a
centreboard would project too far into the small aft cockpit. The aft
cockpit is meant to be comfortable (within reason) for lengthy periods.
The design was for deep water (open ocean) sailing in company, so once
rigged the board stayed down while on the water, and the help of
others in carrying the boat from car to water, and in rigging the
board was envisioned. SHS was to be singlehanded only when on the
water, I think. The towed canoe carrying the outboard could also carry
lifting gear, a tripod and tackle of some kind, I suppose, perhaps in
part constructed using the spare oars?
PCB wrote me that SHS was an excellent boat if the draft was not a
problem.
Best of the season wishes to all. Happy New Year!
Graeme
The heavy ballast weight has to be slung low under the boat, so a
centreboard would project too far into the small aft cockpit. The aft
cockpit is meant to be comfortable (within reason) for lengthy periods.
The design was for deep water (open ocean) sailing in company, so once
rigged the board stayed down while on the water, and the help of
others in carrying the boat from car to water, and in rigging the
board was envisioned. SHS was to be singlehanded only when on the
water, I think. The towed canoe carrying the outboard could also carry
lifting gear, a tripod and tackle of some kind, I suppose, perhaps in
part constructed using the spare oars?
PCB wrote me that SHS was an excellent boat if the draft was not a
problem.
Best of the season wishes to all. Happy New Year!
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
>
> If this dagger board is such a bear, couldn't you make it into a
> centerboard? Clyde
If this dagger board is such a bear, couldn't you make it into a
centerboard? Clyde
lakepepinmollyblue wrote:
centerboard? Clyde
lakepepinmollyblue wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>, Harry[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> James <welshman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Bolger wisp? Where is that one on line?
> >
>http://www.cullisonsmallcraft.com/Past%20Projects.htm
> <http://www.cullisonsmallcraft.com/Past%20Projects.htm>
>
> Picture of the Wisp "Casper" sailing.
>
> Bob
>
>
I am really taken with Bruce's Lapstrake version of the SHS. I would
like some more pro's and con's of the basic design. I can't imagine
sailing here with out being able to beach. It's deep water here (SE
Alaska) but you would want to get to shore. I have figure out a couple
of ways to get the board up so it doesn't protrude from the bottom, but
what do you do about the rudder?
How about sailing, how does it handle.Can you camp in the front cockpit?
Could you rig a seat in the back and row? Is Sue Davis or another SHS
owner available to give a discussion on it?
This is all purely academic interest of course.
HJ
Bob Chamberland wrote:
like some more pro's and con's of the basic design. I can't imagine
sailing here with out being able to beach. It's deep water here (SE
Alaska) but you would want to get to shore. I have figure out a couple
of ways to get the board up so it doesn't protrude from the bottom, but
what do you do about the rudder?
How about sailing, how does it handle.Can you camp in the front cockpit?
Could you rig a seat in the back and row? Is Sue Davis or another SHS
owner available to give a discussion on it?
This is all purely academic interest of course.
HJ
Bob Chamberland wrote:
> Concerning the discussion of daggerboards, I've had boats with
> daggerboards and I've had boats with centerboards and fixed keels. My
> preference would be to avoid a daggerboard at almost any cost.
> Especially in shoaling waters daggarboards are a pain in the neck.
> They either catch or if you lift them you have the daggerboard
> conflicting with the boom. They still require a box which was the bane
> of the centerboard. The so called simplicity is just not worth it.
> With epoxy and glass construction it is possible to develop a
> centerboard box that will not leak at the pivot. (see Bobcat).
> Daggerboards are an accident waiting to happen. Of course, off shore
> it doesn't matter since the board would always be down.
>
> Bob Chamberland
>
>
>
>
>
Concerning the discussion of daggerboards, I've had boats with
daggerboards and I've had boats with centerboards and fixed keels. My
preference would be to avoid a daggerboard at almost any cost.
Especially in shoaling waters daggarboards are a pain in the neck.
They either catch or if you lift them you have the daggerboard
conflicting with the boom. They still require a box which was the bane
of the centerboard. The so called simplicity is just not worth it.
With epoxy and glass construction it is possible to develop a
centerboard box that will not leak at the pivot. (see Bobcat).
Daggerboards are an accident waiting to happen. Of course, off shore
it doesn't matter since the board would always be down.
Bob Chamberland
daggerboards and I've had boats with centerboards and fixed keels. My
preference would be to avoid a daggerboard at almost any cost.
Especially in shoaling waters daggarboards are a pain in the neck.
They either catch or if you lift them you have the daggerboard
conflicting with the boom. They still require a box which was the bane
of the centerboard. The so called simplicity is just not worth it.
With epoxy and glass construction it is possible to develop a
centerboard box that will not leak at the pivot. (see Bobcat).
Daggerboards are an accident waiting to happen. Of course, off shore
it doesn't matter since the board would always be down.
Bob Chamberland
John,
Do you realize how long that dagerboard is. Stradle it and pull up to your crotch, hold it, step over, pull up to at least chest hight. Weight approaches 150 lbs total. There are only grips at the top. This is a formidable task. Mechanical advantage is required. But I am old so it might just be my view on it. Yea, and you are correct about not falling off. Stability decreases as you pull it up ... Get it to the point where it no longer protrudes below the bottom and you have a less than 4 foot wide canoe. Now lift it out, about 16 more inches! I think this should be saved for the trailer, with the boat strapped down. Just the opinion of a wus.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
"A house ashore is but a boat, so poorly
built it will not float ---- "
----- Original Message ----
From: John and Kathy Trussell <jtrussell2@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 12:29:26 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Lapstrake, Single Handed Schooner
The challenge is to stand on the deck of a narrow boat and raise the ballasted board from your feet to your shoulders (and raising the associated weight, increasing the height of the center of gravity) without falling overboard or capsizing the boat.
JohnT
Do you realize how long that dagerboard is. Stradle it and pull up to your crotch, hold it, step over, pull up to at least chest hight. Weight approaches 150 lbs total. There are only grips at the top. This is a formidable task. Mechanical advantage is required. But I am old so it might just be my view on it. Yea, and you are correct about not falling off. Stability decreases as you pull it up ... Get it to the point where it no longer protrudes below the bottom and you have a less than 4 foot wide canoe. Now lift it out, about 16 more inches! I think this should be saved for the trailer, with the boat strapped down. Just the opinion of a wus.
Sincerely,
Gene T.
"A house ashore is but a boat, so poorly
built it will not float ---- "
----- Original Message ----
From: John and Kathy Trussell <jtrussell2@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 12:29:26 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Lapstrake, Single Handed Schooner
The challenge is to stand on the deck of a narrow boat and raise the ballasted board from your feet to your shoulders (and raising the associated weight, increasing the height of the center of gravity) without falling overboard or capsizing the boat.
JohnT
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Lapstrake, Single Handed Schooner
> The ballasted daggerboard is about the same thing as a lifting keel. It is heavy, unweildy, not located in an ergonomically favorable location.
I see that the daggerboard is located right in the middle of the
center deck, and I imagine you could stand right above it an use your
leg muscles when lifting it, no? I suspect that PCB located that
deck & board like that for good ergonomics. (Of course, I am only
guessing, not having ever seen or sailed a SHS.) Better ergonomics
than Centenial II, for instance.
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It just occurred to me that a direct simple way to lift the board is
with a lever. You could use about an eight foot stick, perhaps double
duty as one of the spars. Lash it around the main mast at about
1/3rd:2/3rd midpoint, standing in the aft cockpit you would have a 2:1
advantage lever, positioned nicely to lift the dagger board up
straight.
with a lever. You could use about an eight foot stick, perhaps double
duty as one of the spars. Lash it around the main mast at about
1/3rd:2/3rd midpoint, standing in the aft cockpit you would have a 2:1
advantage lever, positioned nicely to lift the dagger board up
straight.
> The challenge is to stand on the deck of a narrow boat and raise the ballasted board from your feet to your shoulders (and raising the associated weight, increasing the height of the center of gravity) without falling overboard or capsizing the boat.Good point, though at 4 feet, that boat is perhaps just wide enough.
Failing that, I see the main mast is located just aft of the board,
and would provide good purchase for a pulley hoist to lift the board.
Some while back, someone [perhaps John] mentioned the same idea of raising
the SHS board with a crank, and that set me thinking. The SHS is high up on
my "want to build, someday" list.
Anyway, what I came up with was the notion that rather than try to crank the
board at one edge, it made more sense to lift by arranging the rack and
pinion in the middle of the board [in fore and aft sense]. The rack could
easily be fabricated by taking an angle grinder metal cutting disk to a
piece of stainless bar, forming teeth to engage with the pinion from a
trailer winch. Hydrodynamics could be tidied up by fitting a rubber flap to
cover the rack below the pinion, with a shaped 'peeler' to guide the rubber
flap out of the way at the point of engagement. It seems like a safety pawl
wouldn't be too hard to organise to guard against the winch handle escaping
from one's grasp. Now all that's needed is an elegantly beachable rudder...
Lifting the board from nearer its middle would likely result in a reduced
tendency to bind. The cutting of a rack in the manner described is easier
than it sounds - I've done similar things [making a tiller comb] using
woodworking machinery - the disks will turn a table or RA saw into a make-do
metal work tool. Just be sure to clear potentially combustible dust before
generating the sparks.
cheers
Derek
the SHS board with a crank, and that set me thinking. The SHS is high up on
my "want to build, someday" list.
Anyway, what I came up with was the notion that rather than try to crank the
board at one edge, it made more sense to lift by arranging the rack and
pinion in the middle of the board [in fore and aft sense]. The rack could
easily be fabricated by taking an angle grinder metal cutting disk to a
piece of stainless bar, forming teeth to engage with the pinion from a
trailer winch. Hydrodynamics could be tidied up by fitting a rubber flap to
cover the rack below the pinion, with a shaped 'peeler' to guide the rubber
flap out of the way at the point of engagement. It seems like a safety pawl
wouldn't be too hard to organise to guard against the winch handle escaping
from one's grasp. Now all that's needed is an elegantly beachable rudder...
Lifting the board from nearer its middle would likely result in a reduced
tendency to bind. The cutting of a rack in the manner described is easier
than it sounds - I've done similar things [making a tiller comb] using
woodworking machinery - the disks will turn a table or RA saw into a make-do
metal work tool. Just be sure to clear potentially combustible dust before
generating the sparks.
cheers
Derek
The challenge is to stand on the deck of a narrow boat and raise the ballasted board from your feet to your shoulders (and raising the associated weight, increasing the height of the center of gravity) without falling overboard or capsizing the boat.
JohnT
JohnT
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Lapstrake, Single Handed Schooner
> The ballasted daggerboard is about the same thing as a lifting keel. It is heavy, unweildy, not located in an ergonomically favorable location.
I see that the daggerboard is located right in the middle of the
center deck, and I imagine you could stand right above it an use your
leg muscles when lifting it, no? I suspect that PCB located that
deck & board like that for good ergonomics. (Of course, I am only
guessing, not having ever seen or sailed a SHS.) Better ergonomics
than Centenial II, for instance.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/598 - Release Date: 12/22/2006
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The ballasted daggerboard is about the same thing as a lifting keel. It is heavy, unweildy, not located in an ergonomically favorable location.I see that the daggerboard is located right in the middle of the
center deck, and I imagine you could stand right above it an use your
leg muscles when lifting it, no? I suspect that PCB located that
deck & board like that for good ergonomics. (Of course, I am only
guessing, not having ever seen or sailed a SHS.) Better ergonomics
than Centenial II, for instance.
The ballasted daggerboard is about the same thing as a lifting keel. It is heavy, unweildy, not located in an ergonomically favorable location. There are two ways to simplify raising and lowering it. First, you can rig a topping lift to the foresails boom, put a tackle on the boom, and use it to raise the board. Second, I've always thought it should be possible to cut notches in the trailing edge of the board and use a screw type jack to raise/lower the board. This is probably not ideal from a hydrodynamic perspective, but it should work.
JohnT
JohnT
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Lapstrake, Single Handed Schooner
Wisp with her sprit sloop rig is certainly wonderful. I slightly
favor SHS because I want to try the schooner rig, also I have a hunch
the ballasted daggerboard is effective giving uncommon stability to an
easily trailerable hull, indeed, the 'his' and 'her' opportunity of
fitting two on a trailer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date: 12/21/2006
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wisp with her sprit sloop rig is certainly wonderful. I slightly
favor SHS because I want to try the schooner rig, also I have a hunch
the ballasted daggerboard is effective giving uncommon stability to an
easily trailerable hull, indeed, the 'his' and 'her' opportunity of
fitting two on a trailer.
favor SHS because I want to try the schooner rig, also I have a hunch
the ballasted daggerboard is effective giving uncommon stability to an
easily trailerable hull, indeed, the 'his' and 'her' opportunity of
fitting two on a trailer.
>http://www.cullisonsmallcraft.com/Past%20Projects.htmSame boat, different time & place.
> Picture of the Wisp "Casper" sailing.
http://www.geocities.com/pvanderwaart/CBMM0006.JPG
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
Picture of the Wisp "Casper" sailing.
Bob
>http://www.cullisonsmallcraft.com/Past%20Projects.htm
> Bolger wisp? Where is that one on line?
>
Picture of the Wisp "Casper" sailing.
Bob
Bolger wisp? Where is that one on line?
HJ
pvanderwaart wrote:
HJ
pvanderwaart wrote:
> Compare to the Bolger Wisp.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
>> With all my new fiberglass cloth <smile>
>>
>> Personally, I appreciate the hard chined Bolger boats, and I know many
>> others here do too...
>>
>> But I, even more, am growing to love the curvy hull. Anyway, I was
>> dreaming of taking the Single Handed Schooner shape, rig and detailing
>> and convert it to a lapstrake (six strakes) hull. For no other reason
>> than voluptuousness of curve. ;)
>>
>> The ply strake/frame detailing would be similar to Spur II, from 1/4"
>> (except the keel strake and garboard perhaps from 1/2") and the rig
>> essentially unchanged from SHS. Using 1/4" instead of 1/2" should
>> make the hull lighter to drag around at launch time.
>>
>> Here are lines and isometrics,
>>
>>http://hallman.org/boats/PrettySchooner/PrettySchooner.png
>>
>> And the strakes lie nicely upon a 48 inch wide sheet of plywood.
>>
>>http://hallman.org/boats/PrettySchooner/PrettySchoonerStrakes.png
>>
>> And here is the FBM file
>>
>>http://hallman.org/boats/PrettySchooner/PrettySchooner.fbm
>>
>>
>
>
>
Bruce
You hit home on this one, I want one too.
Sue if you are on, can you comment on the sailing qualities of your SHS?
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
You hit home on this one, I want one too.
Sue if you are on, can you comment on the sailing qualities of your SHS?
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> With all my new fiberglass cloth <smile>
>
> Personally, I appreciate the hard chined Bolger boats, and I know many
> others here do too...
>
> But I, even more, am growing to love the curvy hull. Anyway, I was
> dreaming of taking the Single Handed Schooner shape, rig and detailing
> and convert it to a lapstrake (six strakes) hull. For no other reason
> than voluptuousness of curve. ;)
>
> The ply strake/frame detailing would be similar to Spur II, from 1/4"
> (except the keel strake and garboard perhaps from 1/2") and the rig
> essentially unchanged from SHS. Using 1/4" instead of 1/2" should
> make the hull lighter to drag around at launch time.
>
>
>
Compare to the Bolger Wisp.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> With all my new fiberglass cloth <smile>
>
> Personally, I appreciate the hard chined Bolger boats, and I know many
> others here do too...
>
> But I, even more, am growing to love the curvy hull. Anyway, I was
> dreaming of taking the Single Handed Schooner shape, rig and detailing
> and convert it to a lapstrake (six strakes) hull. For no other reason
> than voluptuousness of curve. ;)
>
> The ply strake/frame detailing would be similar to Spur II, from 1/4"
> (except the keel strake and garboard perhaps from 1/2") and the rig
> essentially unchanged from SHS. Using 1/4" instead of 1/2" should
> make the hull lighter to drag around at launch time.
>
> Here are lines and isometrics,
>
>http://hallman.org/boats/PrettySchooner/PrettySchooner.png
>
> And the strakes lie nicely upon a 48 inch wide sheet of plywood.
>
>http://hallman.org/boats/PrettySchooner/PrettySchoonerStrakes.png
>
> And here is the FBM file
>
>http://hallman.org/boats/PrettySchooner/PrettySchooner.fbm
>
With all my new fiberglass cloth <smile>
Personally, I appreciate the hard chined Bolger boats, and I know many
others here do too...
But I, even more, am growing to love the curvy hull. Anyway, I was
dreaming of taking the Single Handed Schooner shape, rig and detailing
and convert it to a lapstrake (six strakes) hull. For no other reason
than voluptuousness of curve. ;)
The ply strake/frame detailing would be similar to Spur II, from 1/4"
(except the keel strake and garboard perhaps from 1/2") and the rig
essentially unchanged from SHS. Using 1/4" instead of 1/2" should
make the hull lighter to drag around at launch time.
Here are lines and isometrics,
http://hallman.org/boats/PrettySchooner/PrettySchooner.png
And the strakes lie nicely upon a 48 inch wide sheet of plywood.
http://hallman.org/boats/PrettySchooner/PrettySchoonerStrakes.png
And here is the FBM file
http://hallman.org/boats/PrettySchooner/PrettySchooner.fbm
Personally, I appreciate the hard chined Bolger boats, and I know many
others here do too...
But I, even more, am growing to love the curvy hull. Anyway, I was
dreaming of taking the Single Handed Schooner shape, rig and detailing
and convert it to a lapstrake (six strakes) hull. For no other reason
than voluptuousness of curve. ;)
The ply strake/frame detailing would be similar to Spur II, from 1/4"
(except the keel strake and garboard perhaps from 1/2") and the rig
essentially unchanged from SHS. Using 1/4" instead of 1/2" should
make the hull lighter to drag around at launch time.
Here are lines and isometrics,
http://hallman.org/boats/PrettySchooner/PrettySchooner.png
And the strakes lie nicely upon a 48 inch wide sheet of plywood.
http://hallman.org/boats/PrettySchooner/PrettySchoonerStrakes.png
And here is the FBM file
http://hallman.org/boats/PrettySchooner/PrettySchooner.fbm