Re: [bolger] Rigging for a steadying sale
Wow--great idea--a double duty sail! Thanks for all
the feedback. Boom jaws, Bolger gooseneck, etc., what
a resource this group is. Sam
--- Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
the feedback. Boom jaws, Bolger gooseneck, etc., what
a resource this group is. Sam
--- Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
> Seems to me that a 59sqft Junebug sail would be a__________________________________________________________
> place to start. Could
> be sheeted pretty flat with a sprit and a sheet to
> the stern. If you
> don't have enough mast, fold the top of the sail
> down and tie. Clyde
>
> Sam Glasscock wrote:
>
> >
> > I hope one of you sailing Bolgerites can help me
> out.
> > I have never sailed anything bigger than a
> flatiron
> > skiff. I now have a 31' Monterey Clipper motorboat
> > with a 20' spruce mast forward of the deckhouse.
> The
> > boat came with a get-home and auxiliary Genoa. No
> > boom or gooseneck fitting came with the mast,
> although
> > in the past it looks like one was fitted. I am
> > building a June Bug (note--Bolger content)which
> will
> > ride on the housetop, which will leave fourteen or
> > fifteen use able feet of the mast over the deck
> house.
> > I want to rig a boom to handle a steadying sail
> and
> > for dinghy launching. I want to do it on the
> cheap.
> > If I can find a flat-cut sail that I can cut down
> for
> > the sail, I will. Any opinion about material for
> the
> > boom, cutting/sizing the sail, rig, how to make
> and
> > attach the goose neck, etc. would be most
> appreciated.
> >
> >
>
> > Need Mail bonding?http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
> > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from
> Yahoo! Answers users.
> >
>
><http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091>
> >
>
> >____________________________________________________________________________________
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Hi Huw
It's actually in the february issue.I'll try and get
it photocopied in the next day or so and can then
forward copies on if you let me have your address.
Boating interest.I suppose I'm a bit of a £200
millionaire fantasist with an addiction to
ebay(bad)bargains.Did my 'competent crew' course round
your way(Rainbow sailing - Swansea)but didn't have
much time to do any sailing last year.Got interested
in PCB's designs after finding a sharpie design in
Selway Fisher's list and googling 'sharpie'.Being
something of a financial disaster area the only way
I'm likely to get abroad on the continental rivers and
canals,with the necessary coastal capability,is to
spread the cost by building,which is why I was
interested in the 'Lions Paw' correspondence recently.
The ideal would be a stretched 'Schuyt Houseboat' but
I understand that the design never got beyond cartoon
format - have to accomodate girlfriend and a pair of
boisterous Schnauzers as well
Cheers
Andy Airey
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
It's actually in the february issue.I'll try and get
it photocopied in the next day or so and can then
forward copies on if you let me have your address.
Boating interest.I suppose I'm a bit of a £200
millionaire fantasist with an addiction to
ebay(bad)bargains.Did my 'competent crew' course round
your way(Rainbow sailing - Swansea)but didn't have
much time to do any sailing last year.Got interested
in PCB's designs after finding a sharpie design in
Selway Fisher's list and googling 'sharpie'.Being
something of a financial disaster area the only way
I'm likely to get abroad on the continental rivers and
canals,with the necessary coastal capability,is to
spread the cost by building,which is why I was
interested in the 'Lions Paw' correspondence recently.
The ideal would be a stretched 'Schuyt Houseboat' but
I understand that the design never got beyond cartoon
format - have to accomodate girlfriend and a pair of
boisterous Schnauzers as well
Cheers
Andy Airey
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Seems to me that a 59sqft Junebug sail would be a place to start. Could
be sheeted pretty flat with a sprit and a sheet to the stern. If you
don't have enough mast, fold the top of the sail down and tie. Clyde
Sam Glasscock wrote:
be sheeted pretty flat with a sprit and a sheet to the stern. If you
don't have enough mast, fold the top of the sail down and tie. Clyde
Sam Glasscock wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I hope one of you sailing Bolgerites can help me out.
> I have never sailed anything bigger than a flatiron
> skiff. I now have a 31' Monterey Clipper motorboat
> with a 20' spruce mast forward of the deckhouse. The
> boat came with a get-home and auxiliary Genoa. No
> boom or gooseneck fitting came with the mast, although
> in the past it looks like one was fitted. I am
> building a June Bug (note--Bolger content)which will
> ride on the housetop, which will leave fourteen or
> fifteen use able feet of the mast over the deck house.
> I want to rig a boom to handle a steadying sail and
> for dinghy launching. I want to do it on the cheap.
> If I can find a flat-cut sail that I can cut down for
> the sail, I will. Any opinion about material for the
> boom, cutting/sizing the sail, rig, how to make and
> attach the goose neck, etc. would be most appreciated.
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Need Mail bonding?
> Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
>http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
> <http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091>
>
>
>could be done, but the tendency of the sprit boom to swing away fromthe mast would add another degree of freedom to the dinghy's
gyrations.
A simple rope lashing of the sprit boom to the mast would control that swing.
Different goals here, Bruce. A steadying sail on a power boat is more to reduce rolling, not so much for heaving to. I'd guess it ought to be near the CLA so that it doesn't effect the helm unduly.
I like sprits, but for a derrick/crane the forces don't seem to run in the right direction. It could be done, but the tendency of the sprit boom to swing away from the mast would add another degree of freedom to the dinghy's gyrations.
Boom jaws would work.
On Chebacco, PCB shows a home-made gimmick which starts with a set of commercial rudder gudgeons constraining an eye-bolt. Tangs on the forward end of the boom hold a bolt which goes thru the eye with lots of slop specified. PCB's idea was to allow the boom to twist and writhe so that the sail sets smoothly. As with the sprit snotter, the forces don't run correctly for hoisting.
Remember, the sail is a bunch of threads which are in tension. It can't push on the boom any more than one can push a car with a rope. The sheet adds additional tension to pull the boom away from the mast. When hoisting, the forces shove the boom against the mast -- just the opposite of sailing.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
I like sprits, but for a derrick/crane the forces don't seem to run in the right direction. It could be done, but the tendency of the sprit boom to swing away from the mast would add another degree of freedom to the dinghy's gyrations.
Boom jaws would work.
On Chebacco, PCB shows a home-made gimmick which starts with a set of commercial rudder gudgeons constraining an eye-bolt. Tangs on the forward end of the boom hold a bolt which goes thru the eye with lots of slop specified. PCB's idea was to allow the boom to twist and writhe so that the sail sets smoothly. As with the sprit snotter, the forces don't run correctly for hoisting.
Remember, the sail is a bunch of threads which are in tension. It can't push on the boom any more than one can push a car with a rope. The sheet adds additional tension to pull the boom away from the mast. When hoisting, the forces shove the boom against the mast -- just the opposite of sailing.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Rigging for a steadying sale
> with a 20' spruce mast forward of the deckhouse.
....
> I want to rig a boom to handle a steadying sail and ...
I don't know much, but wouldn't a sail on a mast ahead of the deck
house swing the bow away from the wind? I imagine a steadying sail
mounted on a mast at the stern transom, wanting to swing the bow to
the wind.
> ... for dinghy launching.
The simplest boom to mast connection I imagine would be a short
snotter with sprit boom arrangement.
>>I am building a June Bug (note--Bolger content)
:)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> with a 20' spruce mast forward of the deckhouse.....
> I want to rig a boom to handle a steadying sail and ...I don't know much, but wouldn't a sail on a mast ahead of the deck
house swing the bow away from the wind? I imagine a steadying sail
mounted on a mast at the stern transom, wanting to swing the bow to
the wind.
> ... for dinghy launching.The simplest boom to mast connection I imagine would be a short
snotter with sprit boom arrangement.
>>I am building a June Bug (note--Bolger content):)
An experienced boatbuilder, like I suspect is HUW, could loft and
build Golden River from the table of offsets posted above.
Personally, I am a sucker to want to build the last Bolger boat I have
looked at, and the 1952 Golden River is no different. I am unlikely
to build the plank on frame version, as mostly I don't have a source
for the right wood.
But, in my mine's eye, I have been imagining a Golden River II, the
same shape, updated to modern plywood. The bottom plank from 1/2"
plywood, built upside down on a mold of frames at 24" spacing. You
would then fit in a long gunnel sheer piece, bent from 3/4" x 1 1/4"
clear fir, plus a temp stringer 3/4" x 3/4" longitudinal half way
between sheerline and chine.
Upon this frame/stringer base you would then spring on two layers of
1/8" by 4 inch lauan plywood planks on a 45 deg bias, cold molded with
epoxy. Smooth things up with a disk sander. Add 6 oz cloth inside and
out, paint, to get a light weight, spectacular looking and sweet
rowing dory.
build Golden River from the table of offsets posted above.
Personally, I am a sucker to want to build the last Bolger boat I have
looked at, and the 1952 Golden River is no different. I am unlikely
to build the plank on frame version, as mostly I don't have a source
for the right wood.
But, in my mine's eye, I have been imagining a Golden River II, the
same shape, updated to modern plywood. The bottom plank from 1/2"
plywood, built upside down on a mold of frames at 24" spacing. You
would then fit in a long gunnel sheer piece, bent from 3/4" x 1 1/4"
clear fir, plus a temp stringer 3/4" x 3/4" longitudinal half way
between sheerline and chine.
Upon this frame/stringer base you would then spring on two layers of
1/8" by 4 inch lauan plywood planks on a 45 deg bias, cold molded with
epoxy. Smooth things up with a disk sander. Add 6 oz cloth inside and
out, paint, to get a light weight, spectacular looking and sweet
rowing dory.
I don't know your rigging and whether or not the boom for the main
extends past the transom or not (as a catboat). If not...consider
rigging a boomkin and and a mizzen.
If you have backstays, you can rig the sail off the backstay. See
sailright kits for more information. They are pretty knowledgable
about this stuff.
David Jost
(why are the Workskiff plans all over the table, I thought I was doing
Birdwatcher II...so confused)
extends past the transom or not (as a catboat). If not...consider
rigging a boomkin and and a mizzen.
If you have backstays, you can rig the sail off the backstay. See
sailright kits for more information. They are pretty knowledgable
about this stuff.
David Jost
(why are the Workskiff plans all over the table, I thought I was doing
Birdwatcher II...so confused)
I've just logged into my mail and found an off-line enquiry from
Huw. I'm posting a bit of my reply here as I dont think this small
piece of Bolgernalia has been investigated before. At least it's not
been posted about that I recall, but someone in the group most
likely will know.
I suggested that Huw might care to follow up a few associated ideas
I've had knocking around in my head for a while for "It ocurs to me
that Harold Payson may sell the Golden River plans - I've asked
without much luck on other yahoo boat groups (eg "DoryBoat"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DoryBoat/?yguid=140880010) if the
small add regularly appearing in MAIB offering a $3.00 catalogue of
numerous dory plans in an expansive size range, and having the same
address as other featured H H Payson adds, is actually another
business run by Harold. It features the exact same Pleasant Beach
address except there is no phone number, nor any business name
given. If run by Harold then the last is most likely to prevent
customer confusion (and the resultant problems) with the "Instant
Boats" business as the dories are likely to be for more traditional
construction.
I think the dory plans business may be H H Payson's also because I
believe he both built work boats, including dories, and had a
relationship with P C Bolger long before they commenced on
the "Instant Boats" theme. Further, PCB up to a certain time,
perhaps the early sixties, produced innumerable dory plans of all
sorts. Many were sold through Jim Orrell's (sp) "Texas Dory Boat
Plans".
I have'nt sent off my $3.00, and made enquiries to the advertised
address for the catalogue yet as I'm still wading through many other
Bolger plans and items, also the inconvenience and costs of currency
conversion and international money order purchase are off putting. (
Jim Michalaks similar US$4 mail catalogue cost over AU$20!) Yes, the
business advertising dory plans seems just like "Instant Boats" in
that it is all paper-based pre-net ordering and payment.
Harold Payson would probably promptly still answer an enquiry to
Instant Boats. He uses few words and would most likely reply by
returning your letter marked with the words either "yes" or "no" in
red ink! Worth a try, I would think, if the dory plans business
turned out not to be his, but was next door and did not have "Golden
River". You could try briefly phoning Instant Boats with an enquiry."
Cheers
Graeme
Huw. I'm posting a bit of my reply here as I dont think this small
piece of Bolgernalia has been investigated before. At least it's not
been posted about that I recall, but someone in the group most
likely will know.
I suggested that Huw might care to follow up a few associated ideas
I've had knocking around in my head for a while for "It ocurs to me
that Harold Payson may sell the Golden River plans - I've asked
without much luck on other yahoo boat groups (eg "DoryBoat"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DoryBoat/?yguid=140880010) if the
small add regularly appearing in MAIB offering a $3.00 catalogue of
numerous dory plans in an expansive size range, and having the same
address as other featured H H Payson adds, is actually another
business run by Harold. It features the exact same Pleasant Beach
address except there is no phone number, nor any business name
given. If run by Harold then the last is most likely to prevent
customer confusion (and the resultant problems) with the "Instant
Boats" business as the dories are likely to be for more traditional
construction.
I think the dory plans business may be H H Payson's also because I
believe he both built work boats, including dories, and had a
relationship with P C Bolger long before they commenced on
the "Instant Boats" theme. Further, PCB up to a certain time,
perhaps the early sixties, produced innumerable dory plans of all
sorts. Many were sold through Jim Orrell's (sp) "Texas Dory Boat
Plans".
I have'nt sent off my $3.00, and made enquiries to the advertised
address for the catalogue yet as I'm still wading through many other
Bolger plans and items, also the inconvenience and costs of currency
conversion and international money order purchase are off putting. (
Jim Michalaks similar US$4 mail catalogue cost over AU$20!) Yes, the
business advertising dory plans seems just like "Instant Boats" in
that it is all paper-based pre-net ordering and payment.
Harold Payson would probably promptly still answer an enquiry to
Instant Boats. He uses few words and would most likely reply by
returning your letter marked with the words either "yes" or "no" in
red ink! Worth a try, I would think, if the dory plans business
turned out not to be his, but was next door and did not have "Golden
River". You could try briefly phoning Instant Boats with an enquiry."
Cheers
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "huw5644" <huwgoronwy@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@> wrote:
> >Hello Andy
> The response to my inquiries has been absolutely marvellous .
> It would be great if you did find the actual SBJ copy
Instead or a gooseneck, you could make up some boom jaws. See:
http://www.rickcorless.com/PAGE25.htm
andhttp://www.whitehallrow.com/details/fittings.php
The mast would need to be circular in section, or the part of it
where the jaws lie built up to a circular section.
You could make up a rectangular-section boom with plywood sidewalls,
timber top and bottom pieces and a solid wooden plug at each end.
The sail would most likely be loose-footed, and you'd have to devise
a means of attaching the tack and clew of the sail. Cleats and
lashings might suffice. A guess at the finished boom section would
be 6" deep by 3" wide, with 1/2" ply walls.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...>
wrote:
http://www.rickcorless.com/PAGE25.htm
andhttp://www.whitehallrow.com/details/fittings.php
The mast would need to be circular in section, or the part of it
where the jaws lie built up to a circular section.
You could make up a rectangular-section boom with plywood sidewalls,
timber top and bottom pieces and a solid wooden plug at each end.
The sail would most likely be loose-footed, and you'd have to devise
a means of attaching the tack and clew of the sail. Cleats and
lashings might suffice. A guess at the finished boom section would
be 6" deep by 3" wide, with 1/2" ply walls.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...>
wrote:
> I want to rig a boom to handle a steadying sail and
> for dinghy launching. I want to do it on the cheap.
> If I can find a flat-cut sail that I can cut down for
> the sail, I will. Any opinion about material for the
> boom, cutting/sizing the sail, rig, how to make and
> attach the goose neck, etc. would be most appreciated.
I hope one of you sailing Bolgerites can help me out.
I have never sailed anything bigger than a flatiron
skiff. I now have a 31' Monterey Clipper motorboat
with a 20' spruce mast forward of the deckhouse. The
boat came with a get-home and auxiliary Genoa. No
boom or gooseneck fitting came with the mast, although
in the past it looks like one was fitted. I am
building a June Bug (note--Bolger content)which will
ride on the housetop, which will leave fourteen or
fifteen use able feet of the mast over the deck house.
I want to rig a boom to handle a steadying sail and
for dinghy launching. I want to do it on the cheap.
If I can find a flat-cut sail that I can cut down for
the sail, I will. Any opinion about material for the
boom, cutting/sizing the sail, rig, how to make and
attach the goose neck, etc. would be most appreciated.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
I have never sailed anything bigger than a flatiron
skiff. I now have a 31' Monterey Clipper motorboat
with a 20' spruce mast forward of the deckhouse. The
boat came with a get-home and auxiliary Genoa. No
boom or gooseneck fitting came with the mast, although
in the past it looks like one was fitted. I am
building a June Bug (note--Bolger content)which will
ride on the housetop, which will leave fourteen or
fifteen use able feet of the mast over the deck house.
I want to rig a boom to handle a steadying sail and
for dinghy launching. I want to do it on the cheap.
If I can find a flat-cut sail that I can cut down for
the sail, I will. Any opinion about material for the
boom, cutting/sizing the sail, rig, how to make and
attach the goose neck, etc. would be most appreciated.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
Its one of the large format ones.
HJ
ANDREW AIREY wrote:
HJ
ANDREW AIREY wrote:
> Hi Huw
>
> May possibly have a copy.It's time I sorted my SBJ's
> out anyway
> cheers
> Andy Airey(Notts,UK)
>
> Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@...> wrote:
It would be great if you did find the actual SBJ copy
My gratitude to you and Bruce .
What's your boating interest ?
Regards
Huw
>Hello AndyThe response to my inquiries has been absolutely marvellous .
It would be great if you did find the actual SBJ copy
My gratitude to you and Bruce .
What's your boating interest ?
Regards
Huw
> Hi Huwhttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
> May possibly have a copy.It's time I sorted my SBJ's
> out anyway
> cheers
> Andy Airey(Notts,UK)
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends
>
Hi Huw
May possibly have a copy.It's time I sorted my SBJ's
out anyway
cheers
Andy Airey(Notts,UK)
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
May possibly have a copy.It's time I sorted my SBJ's
out anyway
cheers
Andy Airey(Notts,UK)
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
I interpreted the shape of Golden River into Freeship and get this,
here is Freeship fbm file,
http://hallman.org/bolger/goldenriver/GoldenRiver.fbm
screenshot
http://hallman.org/bolger/goldenriver/GoldenRiver.png
and table of offsets, which could be used to loft it full size.
http://hallman.org/bolger/goldenriver/GoldenRiver.txt
here is Freeship fbm file,
http://hallman.org/bolger/goldenriver/GoldenRiver.fbm
screenshot
http://hallman.org/bolger/goldenriver/GoldenRiver.png
and table of offsets, which could be used to loft it full size.
http://hallman.org/bolger/goldenriver/GoldenRiver.txt
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
boat to row. and I really don't mind how finnicky and laborious it is
to build . I must try and get hold of the Small Boat Jounal Review
I'm on the trail .
Kind regards
Huw
plans ,but, in the meantime I thought I'd enquire if anyone had sight
of or used this boat . My main boating interest is in rowing and I
build my own.
although dorys have some disadvantages over the last 25 years they
have proved their good qualities to me .
>Thank you Bruce for such fast response from across the ocean.You had all the right words to urge me on ! Slimmer and lower,nice
boat to row. and I really don't mind how finnicky and laborious it is
to build . I must try and get hold of the Small Boat Jounal Review
I'm on the trail .
Kind regards
Huw
> Golden River is an obscure and obsolete dory design of Phil Bolgersure
> from 1952. The write up, of which I am aware, is in the March 1980
> Small Boat Journal, also obscure and hard to find. Golden River is
> plank on frame with rounded sides, (and heavy) and if asked, I am
> that Phil Bolger would advise you that the Gloucester Gull Dorydesign
> is superior. Of 'Golden River' Phil Bolger wrote: "...a good dealthe Gloucester Light Dory "I have written asking for info. on
> slimmer and lower than the usual fisherman's dory. These were nice
> boats to row, but the construction was so finicky and laborious that
> only a few were built."
>
> > I have seen this PB design referred to in the in the book " Build
plans ,but, in the meantime I thought I'd enquire if anyone had sight
of or used this boat . My main boating interest is in rowing and I
build my own.
> > I row in Cardigan Bay in Wales and usually have to launch froma concrete slipway .I sometimes venture out into choppy waters and
although dorys have some disadvantages over the last 25 years they
have proved their good qualities to me .
> > Huw
>
Golden River is an obscure and obsolete dory design of Phil Bolger
from 1952. The write up, of which I am aware, is in the March 1980
Small Boat Journal, also obscure and hard to find. Golden River is
plank on frame with rounded sides, (and heavy) and if asked, I am sure
that Phil Bolger would advise you that the Gloucester Gull Dory design
is superior. Of 'Golden River' Phil Bolger wrote: "...a good deal
slimmer and lower than the usual fisherman's dory. These were nice
boats to row, but the construction was so finicky and laborious that
only a few were built."
from 1952. The write up, of which I am aware, is in the March 1980
Small Boat Journal, also obscure and hard to find. Golden River is
plank on frame with rounded sides, (and heavy) and if asked, I am sure
that Phil Bolger would advise you that the Gloucester Gull Dory design
is superior. Of 'Golden River' Phil Bolger wrote: "...a good deal
slimmer and lower than the usual fisherman's dory. These were nice
boats to row, but the construction was so finicky and laborious that
only a few were built."
> I have seen this PB design referred to in the in the book " Build the Gloucester Light Dory "I have written asking for info. on plans ,but, in the meantime I thought I'd enquire if anyone had sight of or used this boat . My main boating interest is in rowing and I build my own.
> I row in Cardigan Bay in Wales and usually have to launch from a concrete slipway .I sometimes venture out into choppy waters and although dorys have some disadvantages over the last 25 years they have proved their good qualities to me .
> Huw
I have seen this PB design referred to in the in the book " Build the Gloucester Light Dory "I have written asking for info. on plans ,but, in the meantime I thought I'd enquire if anyone had sight of or used this boat . My main boating interest is in rowing and I build my own.
I row in Cardigan Bay in Wales and usually have to launch from a concrete slipway .I sometimes venture out into choppy waters and although dorys have some disadvantages over the last 25 years they have proved their good qualities to me .
Huw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I row in Cardigan Bay in Wales and usually have to launch from a concrete slipway .I sometimes venture out into choppy waters and although dorys have some disadvantages over the last 25 years they have proved their good qualities to me .
Huw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]