Re: [bolger] New poll for bolger
In a message dated 6/4/02 6:44:40 AM,bolger@yahoogroups.comwrites:
MM
>o Just right - kindly squelch past a couple off-topic postsThanks.
MM
Great Idea!
Snip
Snip
> I would suggest we take the lead of hobbicast, and setup a
> "bolger_coffee_lounge", where any subject is ok.
As a side note, I hang out here to talk to boat builders, not to talk about
boats.
As a group, we are a bunch of very interesting folks, and anything we talk
about is of interest to me.
I would suggest we take the lead of hobbicast, and setup a
"bolger_coffee_lounge", where any subject is ok.
boats.
As a group, we are a bunch of very interesting folks, and anything we talk
about is of interest to me.
I would suggest we take the lead of hobbicast, and setup a
"bolger_coffee_lounge", where any subject is ok.
----- Original Message -----
From: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
To: <bolger@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 8:43 AM
Subject: [bolger] New poll for bolger
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> bolger group:
>
> Moderator Feedback: Keep the group
> pretty well on topic - boats/building -
> or let it range? Is my policing of
> topic too much or too little?
>
> o Too little - keep it pretty well right on boats/building
> o Just right - kindly squelch past a couple off-topic posts
> o Too much - let it rip and we'll police it (I can still bounce
spammers)
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/surveys?id=925719
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, or flogging dead horses
> - pls take "personals" off-list, stay on topic, and punctuate
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts, snip all you like
> - To order plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject tohttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
I've been on another Bolger group that allowed ads, and other forum of the
same sort that allow ads.
I can virtually guarantee you all that this poll has added more unrelated
and not-terribly-interesting posts than all of the ads put together on the
previous groups.
I don't think it's worth the effort to discuss. Let's see if there's a
problem, and then pick up the issue again when it is. (Which, using my
bureacratic hat, means "never".)
same sort that allow ads.
I can virtually guarantee you all that this poll has added more unrelated
and not-terribly-interesting posts than all of the ads put together on the
previous groups.
I don't think it's worth the effort to discuss. Let's see if there's a
problem, and then pick up the issue again when it is. (Which, using my
bureacratic hat, means "never".)
I can't find where the poll is ever supposed to close.
Clearly, the results are in.
I was prompted to write my critical message by
noticing from the first the poll's ratio was about ten to
one for, but with very little discussion. Having sometimes
seen the shiniest ideas go awry with startling speed, it's
my own bias to believe it's worth thinking things through
before tossing out that original plan.
And so I've read the many other messages with some interest.
I'm still very concerned with the emphasis on money in
modern life, but for what it's worth, I'm now persuaded that
the clutter issue I raised is unlikely to be serious, and
that there are benefits to including for sale notices.
The clear-eyed, thoughtful postings on this subject are all
of a piece with most of the rest of what is seen here.
To those who thought it through and shared their ideas-for
explaining it- my thanks.
While building in floatation for those batteries,
Mark
Clearly, the results are in.
I was prompted to write my critical message by
noticing from the first the poll's ratio was about ten to
one for, but with very little discussion. Having sometimes
seen the shiniest ideas go awry with startling speed, it's
my own bias to believe it's worth thinking things through
before tossing out that original plan.
And so I've read the many other messages with some interest.
I'm still very concerned with the emphasis on money in
modern life, but for what it's worth, I'm now persuaded that
the clutter issue I raised is unlikely to be serious, and
that there are benefits to including for sale notices.
The clear-eyed, thoughtful postings on this subject are all
of a piece with most of the rest of what is seen here.
To those who thought it through and shared their ideas-for
explaining it- my thanks.
While building in floatation for those batteries,
Mark
I had to think on this for a couple of days. I caused myself to lie down
and be my own shrink. Know what, I found myself to be addicted to building
boats. The next morning at 4 am in bed, my wife announced in no uncertain
terms; get rid of some of those boats. For some of us, our very happiness
may be to sell off some of our projects to retain our happy homes.
As I am involved in only one Bolger, the Topaz. My situation is like
others, the need to lean down. I now have the Topaz at the dock, a 20 ft.
trawler, I just finished, a 23 strip planked sea kayak and a 12 rowing
dingy. Not to mention a couple of plastic kayaks and a boat in Fl.
I like some of you will have to sell. So I vote yes with some reservations
like others have expressed. Wow I am cured of boat building. I did
mention to Connie that if I could build that pole barn on the other
property I could--------------------Brad
and be my own shrink. Know what, I found myself to be addicted to building
boats. The next morning at 4 am in bed, my wife announced in no uncertain
terms; get rid of some of those boats. For some of us, our very happiness
may be to sell off some of our projects to retain our happy homes.
As I am involved in only one Bolger, the Topaz. My situation is like
others, the need to lean down. I now have the Topaz at the dock, a 20 ft.
trawler, I just finished, a 23 strip planked sea kayak and a 12 rowing
dingy. Not to mention a couple of plastic kayaks and a boat in Fl.
I like some of you will have to sell. So I vote yes with some reservations
like others have expressed. Wow I am cured of boat building. I did
mention to Connie that if I could build that pole barn on the other
property I could--------------------Brad
I Voted "Yes." I propose limitations: 1) no commercial dealers, 2) boat
must be a Bolger design or Bolger-inspired, 3) list your boat no more than
twice.
I believe it will not become over-commercialized, because there aren't
enough boats to matter, members are scattered too far across the globe for a
market, or for any to gain financially by building and selling boats. I bet
there has already been more posts discussing this issue than we will see of
boats posted for sale in a year's time.
And if one opts for the daily text digest, you can scroll through the text
quite rapidly.
Phil Lea
Russellville, Arkansas
Garth Battista" wrote:
must be a Bolger design or Bolger-inspired, 3) list your boat no more than
twice.
I believe it will not become over-commercialized, because there aren't
enough boats to matter, members are scattered too far across the globe for a
market, or for any to gain financially by building and selling boats. I bet
there has already been more posts discussing this issue than we will see of
boats posted for sale in a year's time.
And if one opts for the daily text digest, you can scroll through the text
quite rapidly.
Phil Lea
Russellville, Arkansas
Garth Battista" wrote:
> [snip] but I'd suggest maybe a modified YES.
This is the reason I voted yes! The one boat that has been posted gave a
great deal of insite into the boat and it's owner.
Michael Surface
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com
great deal of insite into the boat and it's owner.
Michael Surface
>From: "Garth Battista" <garth@...>________________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@egroups.com
>To:bolger@egroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Re: New poll for bolger
>Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:37:17 -0000
>
>I think Mark and Jim offered very eloquent and compelling reasons for
>voting NO to posting sale notices, but I'd suggest maybe a modified
>YES.
> Selling your Bolger boat is the terminus of the whole Bolger-
>experience arc: the dreaming, the buying of the plans, the unbridled
>excitement, the swapping of info and suggestions, the clearing out of
>the garage, the cutting, the building, the endless sanding, the
>finishing, the actual boating!, the immense pride in having done this
>for yourself, etc.
> Then you decide to sell. Well, WHY? I think if we stipulated that
>all sale/trade notices must come with a discussion of the pros and
>cons of the particular boat; an accounting of your emotional
>attachment to it; several reminiscences of your best days out on the
>water in it; a mandatory good reason for selling (like Matthew Long's
>moving to France with a tear in his eye, leaving "Tetard" behind);
>and other bona fides of your noncommercial relationship with the
>boat, it might be an interesting addition to the discussion here.
> If we did open the floor to sale/trade notices, and over the
>months it became like a cheap bazaar, then, yes, by all means, I'd
>vote to move all sales elsewhere. But I suspect this group would have
>few such notices, and when they did appear they'd be richly
>informative.
> OK -- just my 2 cents worth.
>
>All best,
>Garth
>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail athttp://www.hotmail.com
Well, I did vote "yes" at the poll but I have to agree with the sentiments
raised by Mark. There may be a middle ground if we ask that all for sale
items be related to Bolger boats. Yes, I know that's ambiguous but the
spirit of the idea is to allow folks to offer other Bolgerists items and
boats that address specific needs and ideals of the "Bolger Experience". My
"yes" came without much thought but mostly because of the quality of the
posts on the group. I just assumed from the beginning that it would stay in
control by the very nature of the group. I still feel that way.
Best regards,
Les
raised by Mark. There may be a middle ground if we ask that all for sale
items be related to Bolger boats. Yes, I know that's ambiguous but the
spirit of the idea is to allow folks to offer other Bolgerists items and
boats that address specific needs and ideals of the "Bolger Experience". My
"yes" came without much thought but mostly because of the quality of the
posts on the group. I just assumed from the beginning that it would stay in
control by the very nature of the group. I still feel that way.
Best regards,
Les
> We live in a sea of commercial appeal. There's moneyI sympathize with this point of view, but I voted 'yes' because I
> everywhere you go. Show anybody anything and it's 50/50
> they're going to ask you first, "How much did it cost?"
think it is futile to keep the sale notices off the board. Any seller
with any imagination at all is going to find a way include his 'boat
for sale' info in a posting here.
I do agree that there should be a rule forbidding repeated
advertisements for the same boat.
Peter
I think it's entirely appropriate to announce via the list that boats are for
sale! What better place for us to find the type of boats we're looking for -
and to be "educated" as to the going rates. I'm on the seapearl list as well
and sps often come up for sale on the list ( as well as biminis, outboards
etc.) It's been a real benefit to us- I found my bimini that way and never
would have found it otherwise - and the man who sold it would still have it
sitting unused in his garage. I don't think it's a distraction at all. Steve
Anderson ( Landroval - not for sale)
sale! What better place for us to find the type of boats we're looking for -
and to be "educated" as to the going rates. I'm on the seapearl list as well
and sps often come up for sale on the list ( as well as biminis, outboards
etc.) It's been a real benefit to us- I found my bimini that way and never
would have found it otherwise - and the man who sold it would still have it
sitting unused in his garage. I don't think it's a distraction at all. Steve
Anderson ( Landroval - not for sale)
I think Mark and Jim offered very eloquent and compelling reasons for
voting NO to posting sale notices, but I'd suggest maybe a modified
YES.
Selling your Bolger boat is the terminus of the whole Bolger-
experience arc: the dreaming, the buying of the plans, the unbridled
excitement, the swapping of info and suggestions, the clearing out of
the garage, the cutting, the building, the endless sanding, the
finishing, the actual boating!, the immense pride in having done this
for yourself, etc.
Then you decide to sell. Well, WHY? I think if we stipulated that
all sale/trade notices must come with a discussion of the pros and
cons of the particular boat; an accounting of your emotional
attachment to it; several reminiscences of your best days out on the
water in it; a mandatory good reason for selling (like Matthew Long's
moving to France with a tear in his eye, leaving "Tetard" behind);
and other bona fides of your noncommercial relationship with the
boat, it might be an interesting addition to the discussion here.
If we did open the floor to sale/trade notices, and over the
months it became like a cheap bazaar, then, yes, by all means, I'd
vote to move all sales elsewhere. But I suspect this group would have
few such notices, and when they did appear they'd be richly
informative.
OK -- just my 2 cents worth.
All best,
Garth
voting NO to posting sale notices, but I'd suggest maybe a modified
YES.
Selling your Bolger boat is the terminus of the whole Bolger-
experience arc: the dreaming, the buying of the plans, the unbridled
excitement, the swapping of info and suggestions, the clearing out of
the garage, the cutting, the building, the endless sanding, the
finishing, the actual boating!, the immense pride in having done this
for yourself, etc.
Then you decide to sell. Well, WHY? I think if we stipulated that
all sale/trade notices must come with a discussion of the pros and
cons of the particular boat; an accounting of your emotional
attachment to it; several reminiscences of your best days out on the
water in it; a mandatory good reason for selling (like Matthew Long's
moving to France with a tear in his eye, leaving "Tetard" behind);
and other bona fides of your noncommercial relationship with the
boat, it might be an interesting addition to the discussion here.
If we did open the floor to sale/trade notices, and over the
months it became like a cheap bazaar, then, yes, by all means, I'd
vote to move all sales elsewhere. But I suspect this group would have
few such notices, and when they did appear they'd be richly
informative.
OK -- just my 2 cents worth.
All best,
Garth
200615 0655EDT
May I second Mark Albanese in voting 'No' to including the 'Business' of
buying/Selling of the boats on the Bolger wp.
A separate wep page would be more appropriate; those who`s business, and
interests, are business tend to be very dollar-wise competitive which
limits sharing of information(sources, methods, techniques, etc..) with
others; such an attitude would seem to run counter to the spirit of
collegiality that is at the heart of the current web.
Grau Segler
May I second Mark Albanese in voting 'No' to including the 'Business' of
buying/Selling of the boats on the Bolger wp.
A separate wep page would be more appropriate; those who`s business, and
interests, are business tend to be very dollar-wise competitive which
limits sharing of information(sources, methods, techniques, etc..) with
others; such an attitude would seem to run counter to the spirit of
collegiality that is at the heart of the current web.
Grau Segler
Both Mark Albanese and Jim Camberlin make excellent representation of
why we should say NO to for-sale Bolgers on this list.
I voted Yes for a far less lofty reason.
Frequently people selling boats via the web make a lot of effort to
post articles, observations and plans, frequently bringing to light
original and/or difficult-to-obtain material. I hunted high and low for a
set of CirroStratus
trimaran General Arrangement plans, until a beautifully detailed set turned
up on the
web a few days ago. The yacht plans were courtesy of a person
selling one. As a person intensely intersested in Watercraft design,
I find such postings invaluable.
However, most of what is posted on the web is by someone with something to
sell.
It is a nice ideal to keep a few Sacred Areas that dont merge with the
general Billboard-like appearance of the web. However commercialism creeps
into the
most innocent of information transactions..."to do that job right you need
object A obtainable from B for $C "........"No you can get it
for only $D from E"
We live with it.
Jeff Gilbert
why we should say NO to for-sale Bolgers on this list.
I voted Yes for a far less lofty reason.
Frequently people selling boats via the web make a lot of effort to
post articles, observations and plans, frequently bringing to light
original and/or difficult-to-obtain material. I hunted high and low for a
set of CirroStratus
trimaran General Arrangement plans, until a beautifully detailed set turned
up on the
web a few days ago. The yacht plans were courtesy of a person
selling one. As a person intensely intersested in Watercraft design,
I find such postings invaluable.
However, most of what is posted on the web is by someone with something to
sell.
It is a nice ideal to keep a few Sacred Areas that dont merge with the
general Billboard-like appearance of the web. However commercialism creeps
into the
most innocent of information transactions..."to do that job right you need
object A obtainable from B for $C "........"No you can get it
for only $D from E"
We live with it.
Jeff Gilbert
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Chamberlin RCSIS <jchamberlin@...>
To: <bolger@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: [bolger] New poll for bolger
amen! and below is mainly why I cast the first "no" vote. thank you for
your eloquence.
Jim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Albanese [mailto:marka@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 10:12 PM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] New poll for bolger
>
>
> I don't know if politicking is appropriate re: these polls,
> or not. This one seems not only an opinion poll, but, in
> parliamentary terms, "An action item," So here's a little
> bit of why I voted no, in hopes that the Bolger4Sale group
> would get going if people want it.
>
> We live in a sea of commercial appeal. There's money
> everywhere you go. Show anybody anything and it's 50/50
> they're going to ask you first, "How much did it cost?"
>
> Buying and selling is the pervasive, modern faith. Obviously
> commerce has its uses, but there are other values.
> Personally, I'd just as soon not have every square inch of
> life be on the meter, every impulse cost a buck, have to
> scan everything I look at with a hand upon my wallet.
>
> 25% of the guys here would probably like to make all or part
> of a living building boats. If I weren't so slow at it, I
> might like to do something of the sort myself. The
> occasional announcement wouldn't bother anybody. Reductio ad
> absurdum though, what's to stop me from building one crummy
> barge a month, posting it , then posting a reduced price
> notice, the discount, the special, the holiday sale, the
> fire sale, the last chance sale, the don't miss it sale,
> etcetera? How much clutter on your hard drive will it make
> if just 5 people get in to doing that? When those 5 and
> their ambitious fantasies are gone, I think there'll be 5 more.
>
> There's something very handsome going on here. There are so
> very few places in life where the unique vision embodied in
> Philip Bolger's boats can thrive. He may have made a living
> at it, but the value of those boats is really outside commerce.
>
> Ca. 2000, modern America, the freely offered mutual aid that
> goes on here seems a rare thing. We're in business together
> so many other ways, wouldn't you like to leave that behind somewhere?
>
> If you want to sell your boat, you are probably better off
> with a dedicated area. Buyers will find you faster there.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Bolger rules:
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
Bolger rules:
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
amen! and below is mainly why I cast the first "no" vote. thank you for
your eloquence.
Jim
your eloquence.
Jim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Albanese [mailto:marka@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 10:12 PM
> To:bolger@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [bolger] New poll for bolger
>
>
> I don't know if politicking is appropriate re: these polls,
> or not. This one seems not only an opinion poll, but, in
> parliamentary terms, "An action item," So here's a little
> bit of why I voted no, in hopes that the Bolger4Sale group
> would get going if people want it.
>
> We live in a sea of commercial appeal. There's money
> everywhere you go. Show anybody anything and it's 50/50
> they're going to ask you first, "How much did it cost?"
>
> Buying and selling is the pervasive, modern faith. Obviously
> commerce has its uses, but there are other values.
> Personally, I'd just as soon not have every square inch of
> life be on the meter, every impulse cost a buck, have to
> scan everything I look at with a hand upon my wallet.
>
> 25% of the guys here would probably like to make all or part
> of a living building boats. If I weren't so slow at it, I
> might like to do something of the sort myself. The
> occasional announcement wouldn't bother anybody. Reductio ad
> absurdum though, what's to stop me from building one crummy
> barge a month, posting it , then posting a reduced price
> notice, the discount, the special, the holiday sale, the
> fire sale, the last chance sale, the don't miss it sale,
> etcetera? How much clutter on your hard drive will it make
> if just 5 people get in to doing that? When those 5 and
> their ambitious fantasies are gone, I think there'll be 5 more.
>
> There's something very handsome going on here. There are so
> very few places in life where the unique vision embodied in
> Philip Bolger's boats can thrive. He may have made a living
> at it, but the value of those boats is really outside commerce.
>
> Ca. 2000, modern America, the freely offered mutual aid that
> goes on here seems a rare thing. We're in business together
> so many other ways, wouldn't you like to leave that behind somewhere?
>
> If you want to sell your boat, you are probably better off
> with a dedicated area. Buyers will find you faster there.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Bolger rules:
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
I don't know if politicking is appropriate re: these polls,
or not. This one seems not only an opinion poll, but, in
parliamentary terms, "An action item," So here's a little
bit of why I voted no, in hopes that the Bolger4Sale group
would get going if people want it.
We live in a sea of commercial appeal. There's money
everywhere you go. Show anybody anything and it's 50/50
they're going to ask you first, "How much did it cost?"
Buying and selling is the pervasive, modern faith. Obviously
commerce has its uses, but there are other values.
Personally, I'd just as soon not have every square inch of
life be on the meter, every impulse cost a buck, have to
scan everything I look at with a hand upon my wallet.
25% of the guys here would probably like to make all or part
of a living building boats. If I weren't so slow at it, I
might like to do something of the sort myself. The
occasional announcement wouldn't bother anybody. Reductio ad
absurdum though, what's to stop me from building one crummy
barge a month, posting it , then posting a reduced price
notice, the discount, the special, the holiday sale, the
fire sale, the last chance sale, the don't miss it sale,
etcetera? How much clutter on your hard drive will it make
if just 5 people get in to doing that? When those 5 and
their ambitious fantasies are gone, I think there'll be 5 more.
There's something very handsome going on here. There are so
very few places in life where the unique vision embodied in
Philip Bolger's boats can thrive. He may have made a living
at it, but the value of those boats is really outside commerce.
Ca. 2000, modern America, the freely offered mutual aid that
goes on here seems a rare thing. We're in business together
so many other ways, wouldn't you like to leave that behind somewhere?
If you want to sell your boat, you are probably better off
with a dedicated area. Buyers will find you faster there.
Thanks,
Mark
or not. This one seems not only an opinion poll, but, in
parliamentary terms, "An action item," So here's a little
bit of why I voted no, in hopes that the Bolger4Sale group
would get going if people want it.
We live in a sea of commercial appeal. There's money
everywhere you go. Show anybody anything and it's 50/50
they're going to ask you first, "How much did it cost?"
Buying and selling is the pervasive, modern faith. Obviously
commerce has its uses, but there are other values.
Personally, I'd just as soon not have every square inch of
life be on the meter, every impulse cost a buck, have to
scan everything I look at with a hand upon my wallet.
25% of the guys here would probably like to make all or part
of a living building boats. If I weren't so slow at it, I
might like to do something of the sort myself. The
occasional announcement wouldn't bother anybody. Reductio ad
absurdum though, what's to stop me from building one crummy
barge a month, posting it , then posting a reduced price
notice, the discount, the special, the holiday sale, the
fire sale, the last chance sale, the don't miss it sale,
etcetera? How much clutter on your hard drive will it make
if just 5 people get in to doing that? When those 5 and
their ambitious fantasies are gone, I think there'll be 5 more.
There's something very handsome going on here. There are so
very few places in life where the unique vision embodied in
Philip Bolger's boats can thrive. He may have made a living
at it, but the value of those boats is really outside commerce.
Ca. 2000, modern America, the freely offered mutual aid that
goes on here seems a rare thing. We're in business together
so many other ways, wouldn't you like to leave that behind somewhere?
If you want to sell your boat, you are probably better off
with a dedicated area. Buyers will find you faster there.
Thanks,
Mark
Works for me.
----- Original Message -----From:Bill DerbySent:Wednesday, June 14, 2000 11:58 AMSubject:Re: [bolger] New poll for bolgerMy vote would be another group called Bolger4Sale.......or something similarBill Derby
bolger@egroups.comwrote:
Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the bolger
group:
Should the Bolger egroup allow "for
sale or trade" posts of Bolger boats?o Yes
o No
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://www.egroups.com/polls/bolger
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups
web site listed above.Thanks!
Bolger rules:
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
My vote would be another group called Bolger4Sale.......or something similar
Bolger rules:
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Bill Derby
bolger@egroups.com wrote:
Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the bolger
group:
Should the Bolger egroup allow "for
sale or trade" posts of Bolger boats?
o Yes
o No
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://www.egroups.com/polls/bolger
Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups
web site listed above.
Thanks!
Bolger rules:
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.