Re: [bolger] Re:Steel AS29 just HAS TO BE do-able
Unfinished 50 footer in Aluminum. The design is a centerboarder with a
800 S ft Chinese lug
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/Seven%20Stars/
HJ
paull01 wrote:
800 S ft Chinese lug
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/files/Seven%20Stars/
HJ
paull01 wrote:
>> Were there not pictures of a completed Solution 48, double ended steel[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> sharpie, brought to the attention of this list?
>>
>> Doug
>>
>
> Yup - See
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerCartoons/files/
> and look for the Solution 48 folder.
>
> Paul
>
>
>>>> Ps Have there been any steel boats built to PCB's
>>>> designs.I can only think of one(not including Lion's
>>>> Paw,which as far as I know hasn't been in the water)
>>>>
>
>
>
I'm impressed.Any idea how much it went for
cheers
Andy Airey
ps
where do I go for plans for the big tortoise and any
idea how much
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
cheers
Andy Airey
ps
where do I go for plans for the big tortoise and any
idea how much
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> Were there not pictures of a completed Solution 48, double ended steelYup - See
> sharpie, brought to the attention of this list?
>
> Doug
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerCartoons/files/
and look for the Solution 48 folder.
Paul
> > > Ps Have there been any steel boats built to PCB's
> > > designs.I can only think of one(not including Lion's
> > > Paw,which as far as I know hasn't been in the water)
> >
Were there not pictures of a completed Solution 48, double ended steel
sharpie, brought to the attention of this list?
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<howardstephenson@...> wrote:
sharpie, brought to the attention of this list?
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Stephenson"
<howardstephenson@...> wrote:
>
> For most of us, our knowledge of Bolger designs comes through his
> books and articles. For these he tends to select designs that are
> unusual, unpopular or even unsuccessful because these designs are
> often more interesting to the reader. He would not be free to
> publish much of his commissioned work. So, given that we see his
> body of work through a rather small window, there are quite likely
> several built Bolger designs in steel.
>
> A quick flick through three of Bolger's books has found three of
> them: Shady Lady, Quest and Omega. Further details of each and
> possibly others should be found in the database.
>
> In my view, stated previously, a steel AS29 is not practicable
> because it doesn't have enough displacement as drawn. It would be
> possible to design and build a successful 29' or thereabouts steel
> boat, even a boxy Bolgeresque one. In lb./cu.ft., steel is 490,
> plywood upwards of 36, fibreglass 96 and aluminium 168.
>
> Howard
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@> wrote:
>
> > So I would have thought that if you used 3mm(possibly
> > 4mm)for the sides and whatever thickness you need to
> > get the ballast right on the bottom you ought to come
> > out ok
>
> > Ps Have there been any steel boats built to PCB's
> > designs.I can only think of one(not including Lion's
> > Paw,which as far as I know hasn't been in the water)
>
For most of us, our knowledge of Bolger designs comes through his
books and articles. For these he tends to select designs that are
unusual, unpopular or even unsuccessful because these designs are
often more interesting to the reader. He would not be free to
publish much of his commissioned work. So, given that we see his
body of work through a rather small window, there are quite likely
several built Bolger designs in steel.
A quick flick through three of Bolger's books has found three of
them: Shady Lady, Quest and Omega. Further details of each and
possibly others should be found in the database.
In my view, stated previously, a steel AS29 is not practicable
because it doesn't have enough displacement as drawn. It would be
possible to design and build a successful 29' or thereabouts steel
boat, even a boxy Bolgeresque one. In lb./cu.ft., steel is 490,
plywood upwards of 36, fibreglass 96 and aluminium 168.
Howard
books and articles. For these he tends to select designs that are
unusual, unpopular or even unsuccessful because these designs are
often more interesting to the reader. He would not be free to
publish much of his commissioned work. So, given that we see his
body of work through a rather small window, there are quite likely
several built Bolger designs in steel.
A quick flick through three of Bolger's books has found three of
them: Shady Lady, Quest and Omega. Further details of each and
possibly others should be found in the database.
In my view, stated previously, a steel AS29 is not practicable
because it doesn't have enough displacement as drawn. It would be
possible to design and build a successful 29' or thereabouts steel
boat, even a boxy Bolgeresque one. In lb./cu.ft., steel is 490,
plywood upwards of 36, fibreglass 96 and aluminium 168.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@...> wrote:
> So I would have thought that if you used 3mm(possibly
> 4mm)for the sides and whatever thickness you need to
> get the ballast right on the bottom you ought to come
> out ok
> Ps Have there been any steel boats built to PCB's
> designs.I can only think of one(not including Lion's
> Paw,which as far as I know hasn't been in the water)
I wouldn't have thought that there was too much to
worry about when translating from wood to steel in
terms of weight,although you've obviously got to give
some thought as to where you're going to put the
weight.British narrow boat practise is 10mm bottom,6mm
sides and 4mm top,and at that you still need ballast
to bring them down to the designed waterline of 2ft or
2ft6in.A 'standard' 70ft narrowboat(6'8" beam)was
designed to carry 20tons at around 3ft draft so you've
got a fair bit to play with,particularly as the AS
series are a bit wider than that.Since the image on
British canals is for narrowboats,then most of the
boats you see are steel,including the superstructure -
incidentally,I,at 6'7" can walk through them without
having to stoop,or only a very little,which is more
than I could do on a Bolger box.There were boats built
with steel hulls and wooden or fibreglass tops,but not
many, and 30 years ago they might have used 6mm
bottoms and 4or5mm sides - I've got a share in one -
and lengths from 20ft upwards.I've just had a word
with a friend who lived on a steel boat and had no
trouble with condensation - but he did insulate and
panel the sides.
So I would have thought that if you used 3mm(possibly
4mm)for the sides and whatever thickness you need to
get the ballast right on the bottom you ought to come
out ok
Cheers
Andy Airey
Ps Have there been any steel boats built to PCB's
designs.I can only think of one(not including Lion's
Paw,which as far as I know hasn't been in the water)
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
worry about when translating from wood to steel in
terms of weight,although you've obviously got to give
some thought as to where you're going to put the
weight.British narrow boat practise is 10mm bottom,6mm
sides and 4mm top,and at that you still need ballast
to bring them down to the designed waterline of 2ft or
2ft6in.A 'standard' 70ft narrowboat(6'8" beam)was
designed to carry 20tons at around 3ft draft so you've
got a fair bit to play with,particularly as the AS
series are a bit wider than that.Since the image on
British canals is for narrowboats,then most of the
boats you see are steel,including the superstructure -
incidentally,I,at 6'7" can walk through them without
having to stoop,or only a very little,which is more
than I could do on a Bolger box.There were boats built
with steel hulls and wooden or fibreglass tops,but not
many, and 30 years ago they might have used 6mm
bottoms and 4or5mm sides - I've got a share in one -
and lengths from 20ft upwards.I've just had a word
with a friend who lived on a steel boat and had no
trouble with condensation - but he did insulate and
panel the sides.
So I would have thought that if you used 3mm(possibly
4mm)for the sides and whatever thickness you need to
get the ballast right on the bottom you ought to come
out ok
Cheers
Andy Airey
Ps Have there been any steel boats built to PCB's
designs.I can only think of one(not including Lion's
Paw,which as far as I know hasn't been in the water)
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Great starting point for true investigations into a steel AS
feasibility. Thanks.
feasibility. Thanks.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
> The moderator of this list has a free design program (Hulls) that
is a
> lot better than Plyboats. It is very easy to learn
>
>http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Fun_Shareware
>
> Another program that takes a little more time to learn but which
is pro
> level is Freeship
>
>http://www.softpedia.com/get/Science-CAD/Freeship.shtml
>
> You have probably seen some of Bruce Hallman's many models from
his use
> of the program.
>
> HJ
>
>
> goadarama wrote:
> > PBolgers 20' Colonel Hasler, in steel, works. Tom Colvin has a
26 foot
> > sharpie in 1/8th steel. George Buehler has a 26 foot keel boat
in
> > 3/16ths steel. Bruce Roberts has a 24 foot keelboat in 1/8th
inch steel.
> > My initial estimation was maybe 3/16ths for the AS29 bottom
plate (good
> > enough for grounding out on about anything and coming away with
just
> > scratches) and 1/8th inch for the sides. The Lions Paw was built
with
> > 3/8ths bottom and the builder said it came out about 3000 pounds
> > lighter than specked out so I think it could have gone as high
as 1/2"
> > for the bottom plating and been OK. In this light the very
buoyant
> > square box shape of AS29 might well support 1/4" on the bottom.
I've
> > not bought the PLYBOATS software design program but I understand
boats
> > have been built in steel from it. It would be interesting to run
the
> > different plate thickneses through it to see how the boat would
stack
> > up.XXXXXX We had the fortuitous luck to see a AS29 as it came
through
> > Apalachicola about 2 weeks ago (the one with the tent built onto
the
> > steering station) and my wife and I found it a bit small inside
for our
> > 6-3 and 5-8 frames. I'd think a general blowing up, all around,
of the
> > AS29 dimensions would yield a nice 34 footer with maybe a 9 foot
beam
> > overall. Such a craft might well support a junk rigs weight.
Better
> > wrap this up.... I'm getting antsy to burn some rod just
speculating.
> >
> >
> >
> > Bolger rules!!!
> > - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> > - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or
flogging dead horses
> > - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks,
Fred' posts
> > - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip
away
> > - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA,
01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> > - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > - Open discussion: bolger_coffee_lounge-
subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Just because I am curious, I was looking inside of Superbrick.
http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/superbrick.png
Isn't that cute as a bug!
http://hallman.org/bolger/Superbrick/superbrick.png
Isn't that cute as a bug!
The moderator of this list has a free design program (Hulls) that is a
lot better than Plyboats. It is very easy to learn
http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Fun_Shareware
Another program that takes a little more time to learn but which is pro
level is Freeship
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Science-CAD/Freeship.shtml
You have probably seen some of Bruce Hallman's many models from his use
of the program.
HJ
goadarama wrote:
lot better than Plyboats. It is very easy to learn
http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Fun_Shareware
Another program that takes a little more time to learn but which is pro
level is Freeship
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Science-CAD/Freeship.shtml
You have probably seen some of Bruce Hallman's many models from his use
of the program.
HJ
goadarama wrote:
> PBolgers 20' Colonel Hasler, in steel, works. Tom Colvin has a 26 foot
> sharpie in 1/8th steel. George Buehler has a 26 foot keel boat in
> 3/16ths steel. Bruce Roberts has a 24 foot keelboat in 1/8th inch steel.
> My initial estimation was maybe 3/16ths for the AS29 bottom plate (good
> enough for grounding out on about anything and coming away with just
> scratches) and 1/8th inch for the sides. The Lions Paw was built with
> 3/8ths bottom and the builder said it came out about 3000 pounds
> lighter than specked out so I think it could have gone as high as 1/2"
> for the bottom plating and been OK. In this light the very buoyant
> square box shape of AS29 might well support 1/4" on the bottom. I've
> not bought the PLYBOATS software design program but I understand boats
> have been built in steel from it. It would be interesting to run the
> different plate thickneses through it to see how the boat would stack
> up.XXXXXX We had the fortuitous luck to see a AS29 as it came through
> Apalachicola about 2 weeks ago (the one with the tent built onto the
> steering station) and my wife and I found it a bit small inside for our
> 6-3 and 5-8 frames. I'd think a general blowing up, all around, of the
> AS29 dimensions would yield a nice 34 footer with maybe a 9 foot beam
> overall. Such a craft might well support a junk rigs weight. Better
> wrap this up.... I'm getting antsy to burn some rod just speculating.
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
On 2/2/07, goadarama <goadarama@...> wrote:
balancing the issue of weight versus buoyancy in Col. Hasler was not
trivial. (Notice Hasler's large buoyant box keel.)
Certainly a steel 'advanced sharpie' boat is possible, as we see one
with Weston Martyr.
As always, one cannot not design, nor redesign, a boat without
factoring in the weight/buoyancy issues. Certainly could be done, but
not without some figuring.
I am curious what minimum thickness of plate you think is feasible.
Can you weld 12 gauge steel watertight?
Tom Colvin has a 26 foot
>I have corresponded with PCB about this, and got the impression that
>
> PBolgers 20' Colonel Hasler, in steel, works.
balancing the issue of weight versus buoyancy in Col. Hasler was not
trivial. (Notice Hasler's large buoyant box keel.)
Certainly a steel 'advanced sharpie' boat is possible, as we see one
with Weston Martyr.
As always, one cannot not design, nor redesign, a boat without
factoring in the weight/buoyancy issues. Certainly could be done, but
not without some figuring.
>... I'm getting antsy to burn some rod just speculating.Go for it!
I am curious what minimum thickness of plate you think is feasible.
Can you weld 12 gauge steel watertight?
Tom Colvin has a 26 foot
> sharpie in 1/8th steel. George Buehler has a 26 foot keel boat in
> 3/16ths steel. Bruce Roberts has a 24 foot keelboat in 1/8th inch steel.
> My initial estimation was maybe 3/16ths for the AS29 bottom plate (good
> enough for grounding out on about anything and coming away with just
> scratches) and 1/8th inch for the sides. The Lions Paw was built with
> 3/8ths bottom and the builder said it came out about 3000 pounds
> lighter than specked out so I think it could have gone as high as 1/2"
> for the bottom plating and been OK. In this light the very buoyant
> square box shape of AS29 might well support 1/4" on the bottom. I've
> not bought the PLYBOATS software design program but I understand boats
> have been built in steel from it. It would be interesting to run the
> different plate thickneses through it to see how the boat would stack
> up.XXXXXX We had the fortuitous luck to see a AS29 as it came through
> Apalachicola about 2 weeks ago (the one with the tent built onto the
> steering station) and my wife and I found it a bit small inside for our
> 6-3 and 5-8 frames. I'd think a general blowing up, all around, of the
> AS29 dimensions would yield a nice 34 footer with maybe a 9 foot beam
> overall. Such a craft might well support a junk rigs weight. Better
> wrap this up.... I'm getting antsy to burn some rod just speculating.
>
>
PBolgers 20' Colonel Hasler, in steel, works. Tom Colvin has a 26 foot
sharpie in 1/8th steel. George Buehler has a 26 foot keel boat in
3/16ths steel. Bruce Roberts has a 24 foot keelboat in 1/8th inch steel.
My initial estimation was maybe 3/16ths for the AS29 bottom plate (good
enough for grounding out on about anything and coming away with just
scratches) and 1/8th inch for the sides. The Lions Paw was built with
3/8ths bottom and the builder said it came out about 3000 pounds
lighter than specked out so I think it could have gone as high as 1/2"
for the bottom plating and been OK. In this light the very buoyant
square box shape of AS29 might well support 1/4" on the bottom. I've
not bought the PLYBOATS software design program but I understand boats
have been built in steel from it. It would be interesting to run the
different plate thickneses through it to see how the boat would stack
up.XXXXXX We had the fortuitous luck to see a AS29 as it came through
Apalachicola about 2 weeks ago (the one with the tent built onto the
steering station) and my wife and I found it a bit small inside for our
6-3 and 5-8 frames. I'd think a general blowing up, all around, of the
AS29 dimensions would yield a nice 34 footer with maybe a 9 foot beam
overall. Such a craft might well support a junk rigs weight. Better
wrap this up.... I'm getting antsy to burn some rod just speculating.
sharpie in 1/8th steel. George Buehler has a 26 foot keel boat in
3/16ths steel. Bruce Roberts has a 24 foot keelboat in 1/8th inch steel.
My initial estimation was maybe 3/16ths for the AS29 bottom plate (good
enough for grounding out on about anything and coming away with just
scratches) and 1/8th inch for the sides. The Lions Paw was built with
3/8ths bottom and the builder said it came out about 3000 pounds
lighter than specked out so I think it could have gone as high as 1/2"
for the bottom plating and been OK. In this light the very buoyant
square box shape of AS29 might well support 1/4" on the bottom. I've
not bought the PLYBOATS software design program but I understand boats
have been built in steel from it. It would be interesting to run the
different plate thickneses through it to see how the boat would stack
up.XXXXXX We had the fortuitous luck to see a AS29 as it came through
Apalachicola about 2 weeks ago (the one with the tent built onto the
steering station) and my wife and I found it a bit small inside for our
6-3 and 5-8 frames. I'd think a general blowing up, all around, of the
AS29 dimensions would yield a nice 34 footer with maybe a 9 foot beam
overall. Such a craft might well support a junk rigs weight. Better
wrap this up.... I'm getting antsy to burn some rod just speculating.