Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat

> Wow extended running of a water cooled motor(?) without any water! I was always told this was very bad.

----- Original Message -----
From: Dominic tyson
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat


Wow extended running of a water cooled motor(?) without any water! I was always told this was very bad.

Wesley Cox <inspirfe@...> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat

Everyone, Thanks for the extremely helpful advice.

I hauled the motor into the garage for a closer look this evening.
Suspecting a lack of fuel I disconnected the fuel line starting at the
tank, working towards the engine to verify flow. I found that the
fuel shut off valve was always closed, regardless of everything.
Taking the valve apart I found that the inlet side was caked with a
golden paste, like bee polen. Q-tips, and an 1/8" drill, and scraping
for ten minute cleaned that out.

I hooked things up again, and fired her up, still the same problem,
rushing of the engine for a second or two, then it dies. In
hindsight, my best guess is that at this point, the fuel line was
simply not primed all the way to the carb.

The 'Tanaka 3 HP' aka 'Sears Gamefisher' 3.0, 2 cycle, does not have a
fuel pump, and relies upon gravity. Really a simple motor, no gear
shift and it relies on a centrifugal clutch to go from idle into
'forward' and it spins 180 degrees for reverse.

Anyway, I took the carborator apart anyway, and the insides sure look
squeeky clean to my eye. Regardless, I took things apart and verified
the jet was open, it was.

After putting it back together, it fires up real fine and now runs at
full throttle for extended time (in air, a water bucket in the shop
seems like such a mess, I skipped it). The motor is seeming fixed.

Questions.

1) I cannot turn the idle screw out far enough to get the slow idle
down low enough so that the centrifugal cluch disengages. I wonder
why? This might be because the prop was spinning in air than water, I
will test that out later.

Possibly.

2) Thanks for the advice about the lower unit, I see that the oil in
there is milky, and no doubt the oil seal(s) is/are leaker(s) indeed I
can see a leaking from around the prop shaft. Do I need to replace
both seals, or can I just do what looks like the easy one, the seal at
the prop shaft?

Were it mine, I would replace all seals at the same time. The materials of the seals age, so IF a seal is leaking due to deterioration due to shear age AND there are other seals of similar material, they, too, leak or soon will. Besides, once you have it half apart, half the work of taking it apart is done.

3) As dead motors afloat can be a major inconvenience, is it wise and
normal to carry a replacement carborator jet in the 'spare parts' kit?

I don't think so. If you have the tools to remove the jet on board, there are few circumstances of a clogged jet that couldn't be fixed well enough to run. Of course, if it's cheap and readily available, small parts sometimes get dropped and lost on boats, usually at dusk, when if you didn't drop it and everything went really well, you *were* just going to make it back before dark :).

What is a wise spare parts kit anyway? Shear pin for sure, what
else?

I quit the used outboard habit 2 summers ago. It's an expensive one. It's beckoning me, though, and I feel we will cross paths again. Electric has limited range. I used to carry several spare shear pins which I made of 3/16" mild steel stock. At least one is necessary. Cotter pins, a spare propeller, enough rope of the same size to re-wrap the manual starter, a spare fuel line (for detached fuel tanks, not yours) and a small fire extinguisher or two, redundancy is nice for safety. Also all tools necessary to replace any spare part in the kit or do basic adjustments, verified through actual practice. I, personally, minimized the size and weight of my kit, put it and registration papers in double plastic baggies inside a length of 2" pvc pipe w/ one solid cap and one threaded with a fitted steel collar with a small ring welded to it and tied to the boat. A semi-water proof, small, durable container. Tied snugly to that was the spare prop. Working on a motor while stranded on
the water is SO much fun! At the bank of a narrow, shallow channel where big, fast boats are rudely gunning it to get to the Missouri River 200 yards down is even better. I'm a fabricator by trade so the steel collar was easy, but something could easily be fashioned with a stainless steel hose clamp or two. A lot can be done with a medium size flat screw driver, medium Phillips, regular pliers, needle nose pliers and an adjustable wrench, on the small side. A bit holder and appropriate assortment of torx, Phillips, etc. bits can be good.

4) I see no fuel filter, though there is a screw on 'water trap' about
an inch in diameter and an inch and a quarter long. Neither do I see
a filter in the Tanaka 'parts manual'. I am guess that this water
trap normally has a filter, or what?

Not necessarily. I don't know your motor, specifically, but it's possible it has only a screen. Does it?

5) I see no air filter in the parts manual or in the 'exploded
diagram' of the motor. Though there is a air filter cover.

I could give better advice on this one if you take a picture or 2 and send to me off group. I don't know if there is such a thing as an outboard with no actual air filter. Outboards aren't one of my specialties, just a hobby. I wouldn't like a motor that sucked in unfiltered air. That's a recipe for trouble.

On 2/5/07, Wesley Cox <inspirfe@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've been working on motors of all kinds for 20+ years (not brag, just an indication of some credibility). The advice I give universally is with a newly acquired used motor, first check compression. If it's no good, you have to decide if the motor is worth fixing. If compression is good, do a complete tune-up before getting more adventurous. You need to know that you have a solid base line with the parts that are meant to wear out before an accurate prognosis of other potential problems is even practical. On an outboard this includes points, if it has them, plug, plug wire (often over looked, but old cracked ones can cause very difficult to diagnose problems) and fuel filter (clean it if a screen, replace if it's a soft material or enclosed cylinder), minimum. You'll need specs. to adjust the plug gap, points gap, spark synchronization and throttle. Consider replacing the coil if the motor is a number of years old or it looks charred on the outside! . If the motor isn't
at least 10 years old, you can probably get away with not replacing the coil, at least until you see how it runs on the old one. Also, the fuel pump diaphragm is usually fairly cheap and easy to replace. If it has a gasket or O-ring, replace that, too. It could cause the problems you've briefly described, Bruce, though you haven't given enough detail for a reliable long distance diagnosis.
>
> I agree with Kristine, though, that old gummy gas is notorious with outboards, 2-strokes much more so than 4-strokes. The oil in the gas sitting for years is bad news.
>
> It's also important to check the lower unit oil, while we're on the topic. There should be 1 or 2 threaded plugs. If there's only one, it's both the drain, fill and check. Check the level with the motor on its side such that the plug is horizontal and on top. The oil should be to the bottom of the threaded hole. If there are 2 plugs, with the motor upright, the lower is the drain, the top is fill and check. The oil should again be up to the bottom of the hole in this case in the vertical position. If the oil is low, it leaked out somehow and this is a concern. Where the oil can get out, water can get in, robbing the oil of its viscosity. Water contaminated gear oil will be cloudy or milky looking and feel more like water between your fingers than oil. If you suspect contamination, it's best to replace the lower unit seals. It's a bit more complicated than a tune-up, but certainly not beyond the ability of one who builds such beautiful boats.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kristine Bennett
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat
>
> Yes you should be able to get a carb kit and clean and
> rebuild the carb. I'm guessing the kit will be about
> 15 to 20 bucks. You can get a 1 gal can of carb
> cleaner that you can dunk the carb parts in for an
> hour or two then wash then off with water at most auto
> parts store. This works better then the stuff in the
> spray can. Also you may need to get the part number
> off the carb to get the right carb kit for it.
>
> Blessings Krissie
>
> > >
> > > Well if the OB had been sitting for a while it is
> > > likely the carb jets are gumed up from old gas.
> >
> >
> > And the fix, (I am guessing) is to take the
> > carburetor apart, spray
> > everything with carb cleaner and scrub with at
> > toothbrush? Or,
> > perhaps I need to buy a new jet & needle.
> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
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----- Original Message -----
From: Dominic tyson
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat


Wow extended running of a water cooled motor(?) without any water! I was always told this was very bad.

Wesley Cox <inspirfe@...> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat

Everyone, Thanks for the extremely helpful advice.

I hauled the motor into the garage for a closer look this evening.
Suspecting a lack of fuel I disconnected the fuel line starting at the
tank, working towards the engine to verify flow. I found that the
fuel shut off valve was always closed, regardless of everything.
Taking the valve apart I found that the inlet side was caked with a
golden paste, like bee polen. Q-tips, and an 1/8" drill, and scraping
for ten minute cleaned that out.

I hooked things up again, and fired her up, still the same problem,
rushing of the engine for a second or two, then it dies. In
hindsight, my best guess is that at this point, the fuel line was
simply not primed all the way to the carb.

The 'Tanaka 3 HP' aka 'Sears Gamefisher' 3.0, 2 cycle, does not have a
fuel pump, and relies upon gravity. Really a simple motor, no gear
shift and it relies on a centrifugal clutch to go from idle into
'forward' and it spins 180 degrees for reverse.

Anyway, I took the carborator apart anyway, and the insides sure look
squeeky clean to my eye. Regardless, I took things apart and verified
the jet was open, it was.

After putting it back together, it fires up real fine and now runs at
full throttle for extended time (in air, a water bucket in the shop
seems like such a mess, I skipped it). The motor is seeming fixed.

Questions.

1) I cannot turn the idle screw out far enough to get the slow idle
down low enough so that the centrifugal cluch disengages. I wonder
why? This might be because the prop was spinning in air than water, I
will test that out later.

Possibly.

2) Thanks for the advice about the lower unit, I see that the oil in
there is milky, and no doubt the oil seal(s) is/are leaker(s) indeed I
can see a leaking from around the prop shaft. Do I need to replace
both seals, or can I just do what looks like the easy one, the seal at
the prop shaft?

Were it mine, I would replace all seals at the same time. The materials of the seals age, so IF a seal is leaking due to deterioration due to shear age AND there are other seals of similar material, they, too, leak or soon will. Besides, once you have it half apart, half the work of taking it apart is done.

3) As dead motors afloat can be a major inconvenience, is it wise and
normal to carry a replacement carborator jet in the 'spare parts' kit?

I don't think so. If you have the tools to remove the jet on board, there are few circumstances of a clogged jet that couldn't be fixed well enough to run. Of course, if it's cheap and readily available, small parts sometimes get dropped and lost on boats, usually at dusk, when if you didn't drop it and everything went really well, you *were* just going to make it back before dark :).

What is a wise spare parts kit anyway? Shear pin for sure, what
else?

I quit the used outboard habit 2 summers ago. It's an expensive one. It's beckoning me, though, and I feel we will cross paths again. Electric has limited range. I used to carry several spare shear pins which I made of 3/16" mild steel stock. At least one is necessary. Cotter pins, a spare propeller, enough rope of the same size to re-wrap the manual starter, a spare fuel line (for detached fuel tanks, not yours) and a small fire extinguisher or two, redundancy is nice for safety. Also all tools necessary to replace any spare part in the kit or do basic adjustments, verified through actual practice. I, personally, minimized the size and weight of my kit, put it and registration papers in double plastic baggies inside a length of 2" pvc pipe w/ one solid cap and one threaded with a fitted steel collar with a small ring welded to it and tied to the boat. A semi-water proof, small, durable container. Tied snugly to that was the spare prop. Working on a motor while stranded on
the water is SO much fun! At the bank of a narrow, shallow channel where big, fast boats are rudely gunning it to get to the Missouri River 200 yards down is even better. I'm a fabricator by trade so the steel collar was easy, but something could easily be fashioned with a stainless steel hose clamp or two. A lot can be done with a medium size flat screw driver, medium Phillips, regular pliers, needle nose pliers and an adjustable wrench, on the small side. A bit holder and appropriate assortment of torx, Phillips, etc. bits can be good.

4) I see no fuel filter, though there is a screw on 'water trap' about
an inch in diameter and an inch and a quarter long. Neither do I see
a filter in the Tanaka 'parts manual'. I am guess that this water
trap normally has a filter, or what?

Not necessarily. I don't know your motor, specifically, but it's possible it has only a screen. Does it?

5) I see no air filter in the parts manual or in the 'exploded
diagram' of the motor. Though there is a air filter cover.

I could give better advice on this one if you take a picture or 2 and send to me off group. I don't know if there is such a thing as an outboard with no actual air filter. Outboards aren't one of my specialties, just a hobby. I wouldn't like a motor that sucked in unfiltered air. That's a recipe for trouble.

On 2/5/07, Wesley Cox <inspirfe@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've been working on motors of all kinds for 20+ years (not brag, just an indication of some credibility). The advice I give universally is with a newly acquired used motor, first check compression. If it's no good, you have to decide if the motor is worth fixing. If compression is good, do a complete tune-up before getting more adventurous. You need to know that you have a solid base line with the parts that are meant to wear out before an accurate prognosis of other potential problems is even practical. On an outboard this includes points, if it has them, plug, plug wire (often over looked, but old cracked ones can cause very difficult to diagnose problems) and fuel filter (clean it if a screen, replace if it's a soft material or enclosed cylinder), minimum. You'll need specs. to adjust the plug gap, points gap, spark synchronization and throttle. Consider replacing the coil if the motor is a number of years old or it looks charred on the outside! . If the motor isn't
at least 10 years old, you can probably get away with not replacing the coil, at least until you see how it runs on the old one. Also, the fuel pump diaphragm is usually fairly cheap and easy to replace. If it has a gasket or O-ring, replace that, too. It could cause the problems you've briefly described, Bruce, though you haven't given enough detail for a reliable long distance diagnosis.
>
> I agree with Kristine, though, that old gummy gas is notorious with outboards, 2-strokes much more so than 4-strokes. The oil in the gas sitting for years is bad news.
>
> It's also important to check the lower unit oil, while we're on the topic. There should be 1 or 2 threaded plugs. If there's only one, it's both the drain, fill and check. Check the level with the motor on its side such that the plug is horizontal and on top. The oil should be to the bottom of the threaded hole. If there are 2 plugs, with the motor upright, the lower is the drain, the top is fill and check. The oil should again be up to the bottom of the hole in this case in the vertical position. If the oil is low, it leaked out somehow and this is a concern. Where the oil can get out, water can get in, robbing the oil of its viscosity. Water contaminated gear oil will be cloudy or milky looking and feel more like water between your fingers than oil. If you suspect contamination, it's best to replace the lower unit seals. It's a bit more complicated than a tune-up, but certainly not beyond the ability of one who builds such beautiful boats.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kristine Bennett
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat
>
> Yes you should be able to get a carb kit and clean and
> rebuild the carb. I'm guessing the kit will be about
> 15 to 20 bucks. You can get a 1 gal can of carb
> cleaner that you can dunk the carb parts in for an
> hour or two then wash then off with water at most auto
> parts store. This works better then the stuff in the
> spray can. Also you may need to get the part number
> off the carb to get the right carb kit for it.
>
> Blessings Krissie
>
> > >
> > > Well if the OB had been sitting for a while it is
> > > likely the carb jets are gumed up from old gas.
> >
> >
> > And the fix, (I am guessing) is to take the
> > carburetor apart, spray
> > everything with carb cleaner and scrub with at
> > toothbrush? Or,
> > perhaps I need to buy a new jet & needle.
> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
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----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat

Everyone, Thanks for the extremely helpful advice.

I hauled the motor into the garage for a closer look this evening.
Suspecting a lack of fuel I disconnected the fuel line starting at the
tank, working towards the engine to verify flow. I found that the
fuel shut off valve was always closed, regardless of everything.
Taking the valve apart I found that the inlet side was caked with a
golden paste, like bee polen. Q-tips, and an 1/8" drill, and scraping
for ten minute cleaned that out.

I hooked things up again, and fired her up, still the same problem,
rushing of the engine for a second or two, then it dies. In
hindsight, my best guess is that at this point, the fuel line was
simply not primed all the way to the carb.

The 'Tanaka 3 HP' aka 'Sears Gamefisher' 3.0, 2 cycle, does not have a
fuel pump, and relies upon gravity. Really a simple motor, no gear
shift and it relies on a centrifugal clutch to go from idle into
'forward' and it spins 180 degrees for reverse.

Anyway, I took the carborator apart anyway, and the insides sure look
squeeky clean to my eye. Regardless, I took things apart and verified
the jet was open, it was.

After putting it back together, it fires up real fine and now runs at
full throttle for extended time (in air, a water bucket in the shop
seems like such a mess, I skipped it). The motor is seeming fixed.

Questions.

1) I cannot turn the idle screw out far enough to get the slow idle
down low enough so that the centrifugal cluch disengages. I wonder
why? This might be because the prop was spinning in air than water, I
will test that out later.

Possibly.

2) Thanks for the advice about the lower unit, I see that the oil in
there is milky, and no doubt the oil seal(s) is/are leaker(s) indeed I
can see a leaking from around the prop shaft. Do I need to replace
both seals, or can I just do what looks like the easy one, the seal at
the prop shaft?

Were it mine, I would replace all seals at the same time. The materials of the seals age, so IF a seal is leaking due to deterioration due to shear age AND there are other seals of similar material, they, too, leak or soon will. Besides, once you have it half apart, half the work of taking it apart is done.

3) As dead motors afloat can be a major inconvenience, is it wise and
normal to carry a replacement carborator jet in the 'spare parts' kit?

I don't think so. If you have the tools to remove the jet on board, there are few circumstances of a clogged jet that couldn't be fixed well enough to run. Of course, if it's cheap and readily available, small parts sometimes get dropped and lost on boats, usually at dusk, when if you didn't drop it and everything went really well, you *were* just going to make it back before dark :).

What is a wise spare parts kit anyway? Shear pin for sure, what
else?

I quit the used outboard habit 2 summers ago. It's an expensive one. It's beckoning me, though, and I feel we will cross paths again. Electric has limited range. I used to carry several spare shear pins which I made of 3/16" mild steel stock. At least one is necessary. Cotter pins, a spare propeller, enough rope of the same size to re-wrap the manual starter, a spare fuel line (for detached fuel tanks, not yours) and a small fire extinguisher or two, redundancy is nice for safety. Also all tools necessary to replace any spare part in the kit or do basic adjustments, verified through actual practice. I, personally, minimized the size and weight of my kit, put it and registration papers in double plastic baggies inside a length of 2" pvc pipe w/ one solid cap and one threaded with a fitted steel collar with a small ring welded to it and tied to the boat. A semi-water proof, small, durable container. Tied snugly to that was the spare prop. Working on a motor while stranded on
the water is SO much fun! At the bank of a narrow, shallow channel where big, fast boats are rudely gunning it to get to the Missouri River 200 yards down is even better. I'm a fabricator by trade so the steel collar was easy, but something could easily be fashioned with a stainless steel hose clamp or two. A lot can be done with a medium size flat screw driver, medium Phillips, regular pliers, needle nose pliers and an adjustable wrench, on the small side. A bit holder and appropriate assortment of torx, Phillips, etc. bits can be good.

4) I see no fuel filter, though there is a screw on 'water trap' about
an inch in diameter and an inch and a quarter long. Neither do I see
a filter in the Tanaka 'parts manual'. I am guess that this water
trap normally has a filter, or what?

Not necessarily. I don't know your motor, specifically, but it's possible it has only a screen. Does it?

5) I see no air filter in the parts manual or in the 'exploded
diagram' of the motor. Though there is a air filter cover.

I could give better advice on this one if you take a picture or 2 and send to me off group. I don't know if there is such a thing as an outboard with no actual air filter. Outboards aren't one of my specialties, just a hobby. I wouldn't like a motor that sucked in unfiltered air. That's a recipe for trouble.

On 2/5/07, Wesley Cox <inspirfe@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've been working on motors of all kinds for 20+ years (not brag, just an indication of some credibility). The advice I give universally is with a newly acquired used motor, first check compression. If it's no good, you have to decide if the motor is worth fixing. If compression is good, do a complete tune-up before getting more adventurous. You need to know that you have a solid base line with the parts that are meant to wear out before an accurate prognosis of other potential problems is even practical. On an outboard this includes points, if it has them, plug, plug wire (often over looked, but old cracked ones can cause very difficult to diagnose problems) and fuel filter (clean it if a screen, replace if it's a soft material or enclosed cylinder), minimum. You'll need specs. to adjust the plug gap, points gap, spark synchronization and throttle. Consider replacing the coil if the motor is a number of years old or it looks charred on the outside! . If the motor isn't
at least 10 years old, you can probably get away with not replacing the coil, at least until you see how it runs on the old one. Also, the fuel pump diaphragm is usually fairly cheap and easy to replace. If it has a gasket or O-ring, replace that, too. It could cause the problems you've briefly described, Bruce, though you haven't given enough detail for a reliable long distance diagnosis.
>
> I agree with Kristine, though, that old gummy gas is notorious with outboards, 2-strokes much more so than 4-strokes. The oil in the gas sitting for years is bad news.
>
> It's also important to check the lower unit oil, while we're on the topic. There should be 1 or 2 threaded plugs. If there's only one, it's both the drain, fill and check. Check the level with the motor on its side such that the plug is horizontal and on top. The oil should be to the bottom of the threaded hole. If there are 2 plugs, with the motor upright, the lower is the drain, the top is fill and check. The oil should again be up to the bottom of the hole in this case in the vertical position. If the oil is low, it leaked out somehow and this is a concern. Where the oil can get out, water can get in, robbing the oil of its viscosity. Water contaminated gear oil will be cloudy or milky looking and feel more like water between your fingers than oil. If you suspect contamination, it's best to replace the lower unit seals. It's a bit more complicated than a tune-up, but certainly not beyond the ability of one who builds such beautiful boats.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kristine Bennett
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat
>
> Yes you should be able to get a carb kit and clean and
> rebuild the carb. I'm guessing the kit will be about
> 15 to 20 bucks. You can get a 1 gal can of carb
> cleaner that you can dunk the carb parts in for an
> hour or two then wash then off with water at most auto
> parts store. This works better then the stuff in the
> spray can. Also you may need to get the part number
> off the carb to get the right carb kit for it.
>
> Blessings Krissie
>
> > >
> > > Well if the OB had been sitting for a while it is
> > > likely the carb jets are gumed up from old gas.
> >
> >
> > And the fix, (I am guessing) is to take the
> > carburetor apart, spray
> > everything with carb cleaner and scrub with at
> > toothbrush? Or,
> > perhaps I need to buy a new jet & needle.
> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Hallman
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat


Everyone, Thanks for the extremely helpful advice.

I hauled the motor into the garage for a closer look this evening.
Suspecting a lack of fuel I disconnected the fuel line starting at the
tank, working towards the engine to verify flow. I found that the
fuel shut off valve was always closed, regardless of everything.
Taking the valve apart I found that the inlet side was caked with a
golden paste, like bee polen. Q-tips, and an 1/8" drill, and scraping
for ten minute cleaned that out.

I hooked things up again, and fired her up, still the same problem,
rushing of the engine for a second or two, then it dies. In
hindsight, my best guess is that at this point, the fuel line was
simply not primed all the way to the carb.

The 'Tanaka 3 HP' aka 'Sears Gamefisher' 3.0, 2 cycle, does not have a
fuel pump, and relies upon gravity. Really a simple motor, no gear
shift and it relies on a centrifugal clutch to go from idle into
'forward' and it spins 180 degrees for reverse.

Anyway, I took the carborator apart anyway, and the insides sure look
squeeky clean to my eye. Regardless, I took things apart and verified
the jet was open, it was.

After putting it back together, it fires up real fine and now runs at
full throttle for extended time (in air, a water bucket in the shop
seems like such a mess, I skipped it). The motor is seeming fixed.

Questions.

1) I cannot turn the idle screw out far enough to get the slow idle
down low enough so that the centrifugal cluch disengages. I wonder
why? This might be because the prop was spinning in air than water, I
will test that out later.




Possibly.


2) Thanks for the advice about the lower unit, I see that the oil in
there is milky, and no doubt the oil seal(s) is/are leaker(s) indeed I
can see a leaking from around the prop shaft. Do I need to replace
both seals, or can I just do what looks like the easy one, the seal at
the prop shaft?



Were it mine, I would replace all seals at the same time. The materials of the seals age, so IF a seal is leaking due to deterioration due to shear age AND there are other seals of similar material, they, too, leak or soon will. Besides, once you have it half apart, half the work of taking it apart is done.

3) As dead motors afloat can be a major inconvenience, is it wise and
normal to carry a replacement carborator jet in the 'spare parts' kit?



I don't think so. If you have the tools to remove the jet on board, there are few circumstances of a clogged jet that couldn't be fixed well enough to run. Of course, if it's cheap and readily available, small parts sometimes get dropped and lost on boats, usually at dusk, when if you didn't drop it and everything went really well, you *were* just going to make it back before dark :).



What is a wise spare parts kit anyway? Shear pin for sure, what
else?



I quit the used outboard habit 2 summers ago. It's an expensive one. It's beckoning me, though, and I feel we will cross paths again. Electric has limited range. I used to carry several spare shear pins which I made of 3/16" mild steel stock. At least one is necessary. Cotter pins, a spare propeller, enough rope of the same size to re-wrap the manual starter, a spare fuel line (for detached fuel tanks, not yours) and a small fire extinguisher or two, redundancy is nice for safety. Also all tools necessary to replace any spare part in the kit or do basic adjustments, verified through actual practice. I, personally, minimized the size and weight of my kit, put it and registration papers in double plastic baggies inside a length of 2" pvc pipe w/ one solid cap and one threaded with a fitted steel collar with a small ring welded to it and tied to the boat. A semi-water proof, small, durable container. Tied snugly to that was the spare prop. Working on a motor while stranded on the water is SO much fun! At the bank of a narrow, shallow channel where big, fast boats are rudely gunning it to get to the Missouri River 200 yards down is even better. I'm a fabricator by trade so the steel collar was easy, but something could easily be fashioned with a stainless steel hose clamp or two. A lot can be done with a medium size flat screw driver, medium Phillips, regular pliers, needle nose pliers and an adjustable wrench, on the small side. A bit holder and appropriate assortment of torx, Phillips, etc. bits can be good.

4) I see no fuel filter, though there is a screw on 'water trap' about
an inch in diameter and an inch and a quarter long. Neither do I see
a filter in the Tanaka 'parts manual'. I am guess that this water
trap normally has a filter, or what?



Not necessarily. I don't know your motor, specifically, but it's possible it has only a screen. Does it?

5) I see no air filter in the parts manual or in the 'exploded
diagram' of the motor. Though there is a air filter cover.


I could give better advice on this one if you take a picture or 2 and send to me off group. I don't know if there is such a thing as an outboard with no actual air filter. Outboards aren't one of my specialties, just a hobby. I wouldn't like a motor that sucked in unfiltered air. That's a recipe for trouble.




On 2/5/07, Wesley Cox <inspirfe@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've been working on motors of all kinds for 20+ years (not brag, just an indication of some credibility). The advice I give universally is with a newly acquired used motor, first check compression. If it's no good, you have to decide if the motor is worth fixing. If compression is good, do a complete tune-up before getting more adventurous. You need to know that you have a solid base line with the parts that are meant to wear out before an accurate prognosis of other potential problems is even practical. On an outboard this includes points, if it has them, plug, plug wire (often over looked, but old cracked ones can cause very difficult to diagnose problems) and fuel filter (clean it if a screen, replace if it's a soft material or enclosed cylinder), minimum. You'll need specs. to adjust the plug gap, points gap, spark synchronization and throttle. Consider replacing the coil if the motor is a number of years old or it looks charred on the outside! . If the motor isn't at least 10 years old, you can probably get away with not replacing the coil, at least until you see how it runs on the old one. Also, the fuel pump diaphragm is usually fairly cheap and easy to replace. If it has a gasket or O-ring, replace that, too. It could cause the problems you've briefly described, Bruce, though you haven't given enough detail for a reliable long distance diagnosis.
>
> I agree with Kristine, though, that old gummy gas is notorious with outboards, 2-strokes much more so than 4-strokes. The oil in the gas sitting for years is bad news.
>
> It's also important to check the lower unit oil, while we're on the topic. There should be 1 or 2 threaded plugs. If there's only one, it's both the drain, fill and check. Check the level with the motor on its side such that the plug is horizontal and on top. The oil should be to the bottom of the threaded hole. If there are 2 plugs, with the motor upright, the lower is the drain, the top is fill and check. The oil should again be up to the bottom of the hole in this case in the vertical position. If the oil is low, it leaked out somehow and this is a concern. Where the oil can get out, water can get in, robbing the oil of its viscosity. Water contaminated gear oil will be cloudy or milky looking and feel more like water between your fingers than oil. If you suspect contamination, it's best to replace the lower unit seals. It's a bit more complicated than a tune-up, but certainly not beyond the ability of one who builds such beautiful boats.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kristine Bennett
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat
>
> Yes you should be able to get a carb kit and clean and
> rebuild the carb. I'm guessing the kit will be about
> 15 to 20 bucks. You can get a 1 gal can of carb
> cleaner that you can dunk the carb parts in for an
> hour or two then wash then off with water at most auto
> parts store. This works better then the stuff in the
> spray can. Also you may need to get the part number
> off the carb to get the right carb kit for it.
>
> Blessings Krissie
>
> > >
> > > Well if the OB had been sitting for a while it is
> > > likely the carb jets are gumed up from old gas.
> >
> >
> > And the fix, (I am guessing) is to take the
> > carburetor apart, spray
> > everything with carb cleaner and scrub with at
> > toothbrush? Or,
> > perhaps I need to buy a new jet & needle.
> >




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 2/5/07, Wesley Cox <inspirfe@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've been working on motors of all kinds for 20+ years (not brag, just an indication of some credibility). The advice I give universally is with a newly acquired used motor, first check compression. If it's no good, you have to decide if the motor is worth fixing. If compression is good, do a complete tune-up before getting more adventurous. You need to know that you have a solid base line with the parts that are meant to wear out before an accurate prognosis of other potential problems is even practical. On an outboard this includes points, if it has them, plug, plug wire (often over looked, but old cracked ones can cause very difficult to diagnose problems) and fuel filter (clean it if a screen, replace if it's a soft material or enclosed cylinder), minimum. You'll need specs. to adjust the plug gap, points gap, spark synchronization and throttle. Consider replacing the coil if the motor is a number of years old or it looks charred on the outside! . If the motor isn't at least 10 years old, you can probably get away with not replacing the coil, at least until you see how it runs on the old one. Also, the fuel pump diaphragm is usually fairly cheap and easy to replace. If it has a gasket or O-ring, replace that, too. It could cause the problems you've briefly described, Bruce, though you haven't given enough detail for a reliable long distance diagnosis.
>
> I agree with Kristine, though, that old gummy gas is notorious with outboards, 2-strokes much more so than 4-strokes. The oil in the gas sitting for years is bad news.
>
> It's also important to check the lower unit oil, while we're on the topic. There should be 1 or 2 threaded plugs. If there's only one, it's both the drain, fill and check. Check the level with the motor on its side such that the plug is horizontal and on top. The oil should be to the bottom of the threaded hole. If there are 2 plugs, with the motor upright, the lower is the drain, the top is fill and check. The oil should again be up to the bottom of the hole in this case in the vertical position. If the oil is low, it leaked out somehow and this is a concern. Where the oil can get out, water can get in, robbing the oil of its viscosity. Water contaminated gear oil will be cloudy or milky looking and feel more like water between your fingers than oil. If you suspect contamination, it's best to replace the lower unit seals. It's a bit more complicated than a tune-up, but certainly not beyond the ability of one who builds such beautiful boats.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kristine Bennett
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat
>
> Yes you should be able to get a carb kit and clean and
> rebuild the carb. I'm guessing the kit will be about
> 15 to 20 bucks. You can get a 1 gal can of carb
> cleaner that you can dunk the carb parts in for an
> hour or two then wash then off with water at most auto
> parts store. This works better then the stuff in the
> spray can. Also you may need to get the part number
> off the carb to get the right carb kit for it.
>
> Blessings Krissie
>
> > >
> > > Well if the OB had been sitting for a while it is
> > > likely the carb jets are gumed up from old gas.
> >
> >
> > And the fix, (I am guessing) is to take the
> > carburetor apart, spray
> > everything with carb cleaner and scrub with at
> > toothbrush? Or,
> > perhaps I need to buy a new jet & needle.
> >

----- Original Message -----
From: Kristine Bennett
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Micro Navigator Afloat


Yes you should be able to get a carb kit and clean and
rebuild the carb. I'm guessing the kit will be about
15 to 20 bucks. You can get a 1 gal can of carb
cleaner that you can dunk the carb parts in for an
hour or two then wash then off with water at most auto
parts store. This works better then the stuff in the
spray can. Also you may need to get the part number
off the carb to get the right carb kit for it.

Blessings Krissie

> >
> > Well if the OB had been sitting for a while it is
> > likely the carb jets are gumed up from old gas.
>
>
> And the fix, (I am guessing) is to take the
> carburetor apart, spray
> everything with carb cleaner and scrub with at
> toothbrush? Or,
> perhaps I need to buy a new jet & needle.
>

__________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Yes you should be able to get a carb kit and clean and
> rebuild the carb. I'm guessing the kit will be about
> 15 to 20 bucks. You can get a 1 gal can of carb
> cleaner that you can dunk the carb parts in for an
> hour or two then wash then off with water at most auto
> parts store. This works better then the stuff in the
> spray can. Also you may need to get the part number
> off the carb to get the right carb kit for it.
>
> Blessings Krissie
>
> > >
> > > Well if the OB had been sitting for a while it is
> > > likely the carb jets are gumed up from old gas.
> >
> >
> > And the fix, (I am guessing) is to take the
> > carburetor apart, spray
> > everything with carb cleaner and scrub with at
> > toothbrush? Or,
> > perhaps I need to buy a new jet & needle.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Cheap talk?
> Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
>http://voice.yahoo.com
>

> >
> > Well if the OB had been sitting for a while it is
> > likely the carb jets are gumed up from old gas.
>
>
> And the fix, (I am guessing) is to take the
> carburetor apart, spray
> everything with carb cleaner and scrub with at
> toothbrush? Or,
> perhaps I need to buy a new jet & needle.
>

>
> Well if the OB had been sitting for a while it is
> likely the carb jets are gumed up from old gas.

>
> The launch went well, sort of. My 'new' used Tanaka
> 3hp outboard,
> which ran perfectly in the driveway of my house,
> failed to run on the
> water. It would start, but shortly die, especially
> after giving it
> throttle. (Any outboard mechanics want to offer
> troubleshooting
> advice?)