Re: [bolger] A Cold-Water Outboard Cruiser
On 2/8/07, Harry James wrote:
Here is the link to the polytarp sail 'dart calculator' at Duckworks,
which I described earlier.
Polytarps gain their shape with darts and rounded edges (and battens).
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/articles/saildart/free.cfm
>Cool. Though that programs help you shape and cut panels, for a sewn sail.
> Laine's Sailcut is at
>
>http://www.sailcut.com/
>
> Free program to design sails for your Free ship designs
Here is the link to the polytarp sail 'dart calculator' at Duckworks,
which I described earlier.
Polytarps gain their shape with darts and rounded edges (and battens).
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/articles/saildart/free.cfm
Laine's Sailcut is at
http://www.sailcut.com/
Free program to design sails for your Free ship designs
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
http://www.sailcut.com/
Free program to design sails for your Free ship designs
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> On 2/7/07, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
>> Did you use Laines's program for Junk sails to get panel shapes?
>>
>> HJ
>>
>
>
> Is that the program I saw on Duckworks about a year ago? I looked at
> that program and found the ideas to be quite enlightening.
>
> Though, specifically, I just eye-ball estimated the depth of the
> darts, about six+ inches of "V" tapering 45deg in about 4 feet length
> from both the tack point and the gaff jaw point. I don't have panels,
> per se, as I attach the battens to the polytarp using 3m-90 glue to
> attach velcro strips (plus just a bit of sewing at the stress points
> at each end).
>
> The Chinese Gaff rig is unique, in that the draft of the sail is
> primarily controlled through the use of custom tapering of the
> thickness of jawed battens. I don't think that is possible in
> 'un-jawed' battens as are used in Junk Rigs.
>
> Though the Chinese Gaff, like the Junk Rig, (and unlike Sloop Rigs)
> never puts any point on the sail cloth under high stress. I would bet
> that the stress in the sail cloth at the tack point on a big Genoa is
>
>> 100 times the maximum stress found anywhere on my Chinese Gaff sail.
>>
> Yet I carry 213 SF of sail on a 15'4" hull.
>
>
>
On 2/7/07, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
that program and found the ideas to be quite enlightening.
Though, specifically, I just eye-ball estimated the depth of the
darts, about six+ inches of "V" tapering 45deg in about 4 feet length
from both the tack point and the gaff jaw point. I don't have panels,
per se, as I attach the battens to the polytarp using 3m-90 glue to
attach velcro strips (plus just a bit of sewing at the stress points
at each end).
The Chinese Gaff rig is unique, in that the draft of the sail is
primarily controlled through the use of custom tapering of the
thickness of jawed battens. I don't think that is possible in
'un-jawed' battens as are used in Junk Rigs.
Though the Chinese Gaff, like the Junk Rig, (and unlike Sloop Rigs)
never puts any point on the sail cloth under high stress. I would bet
that the stress in the sail cloth at the tack point on a big Genoa is
>Is that the program I saw on Duckworks about a year ago? I looked at
>
> Did you use Laines's program for Junk sails to get panel shapes?
>
> HJ
that program and found the ideas to be quite enlightening.
Though, specifically, I just eye-ball estimated the depth of the
darts, about six+ inches of "V" tapering 45deg in about 4 feet length
from both the tack point and the gaff jaw point. I don't have panels,
per se, as I attach the battens to the polytarp using 3m-90 glue to
attach velcro strips (plus just a bit of sewing at the stress points
at each end).
The Chinese Gaff rig is unique, in that the draft of the sail is
primarily controlled through the use of custom tapering of the
thickness of jawed battens. I don't think that is possible in
'un-jawed' battens as are used in Junk Rigs.
Though the Chinese Gaff, like the Junk Rig, (and unlike Sloop Rigs)
never puts any point on the sail cloth under high stress. I would bet
that the stress in the sail cloth at the tack point on a big Genoa is
>100 times the maximum stress found anywhere on my Chinese Gaff sail.Yet I carry 213 SF of sail on a 15'4" hull.
Did you use Laines's program for Junk sails to get panel shapes?
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> On 2/7/07, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
>
>> Bruce
>>
>> What were the issues with your previous sail and what did you do to
>> "vastly improve" it.
>>
>
> 'vastly improve' might be a stretch.
>
> -snip-
>
> Also, I am using a better simpler 'dart' method for gaining the sail
> fullness. And, on my quest for a glue that adheres polytarp, I think
> I have found the trick, 3M type 90 spray adhesive.
>
> And, I have left off much of the 'edge rope', which I have deemed
> unnecessary due to the low stresses in that type of sail, instead
> using a simple 2 inch glued/folded seam. I have omitted all edge
> seaming on the luff edge too.
>
> My 'guess' is that poly tarp is made of polypropylene. Not many glues
> adhere polypropylene. But 3M type 90 does.
>
>http://www.amazon.com/3M-Hi%252dStrength-90-Spray-Adhesive/dp/B0002BBV2S
>
>
>
On 2/7/07, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
On the first sail, I mismeasured from tack to gaff peak by a foot,
causing the peak of the gaff to be too low. (Ironically, when I
sailed it, I had no clue that there was anything wrong, indeed it
sailed just fine with the measurements off by a foot.)
Also, I am using a better simpler 'dart' method for gaining the sail
fullness. And, on my quest for a glue that adheres polytarp, I think
I have found the trick, 3M type 90 spray adhesive.
And, I have left off much of the 'edge rope', which I have deemed
unnecessary due to the low stresses in that type of sail, instead
using a simple 2 inch glued/folded seam. I have omitted all edge
seaming on the luff edge too.
My 'guess' is that poly tarp is made of polypropylene. Not many glues
adhere polypropylene. But 3M type 90 does.
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Hi%252dStrength-90-Spray-Adhesive/dp/B0002BBV2S
lunch, and talking to the never ending stream of looky-lou's).
Sounds like a lot of work, but really, how much brightwork can you
have on a boat 15 feet 4 inches long?
> Bruce'vastly improve' might be a stretch.
>
> What were the issues with your previous sail and what did you do to
> "vastly improve" it.
On the first sail, I mismeasured from tack to gaff peak by a foot,
causing the peak of the gaff to be too low. (Ironically, when I
sailed it, I had no clue that there was anything wrong, indeed it
sailed just fine with the measurements off by a foot.)
Also, I am using a better simpler 'dart' method for gaining the sail
fullness. And, on my quest for a glue that adheres polytarp, I think
I have found the trick, 3M type 90 spray adhesive.
And, I have left off much of the 'edge rope', which I have deemed
unnecessary due to the low stresses in that type of sail, instead
using a simple 2 inch glued/folded seam. I have omitted all edge
seaming on the luff edge too.
My 'guess' is that poly tarp is made of polypropylene. Not many glues
adhere polypropylene. But 3M type 90 does.
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Hi%252dStrength-90-Spray-Adhesive/dp/B0002BBV2S
> Varnished the exterior bright work during lunch hour?Including the unstepping and restepping of the main mast. (and eating
lunch, and talking to the never ending stream of looky-lou's).
Sounds like a lot of work, but really, how much brightwork can you
have on a boat 15 feet 4 inches long?
Bruce
What were the issues with your previous sail and what did you do to
"vastly improve" it.
Varnished the exterior bright work during lunch hour? Folks thats why
Bruce can build more Bolger boats than the rest of us, he's faster than
a speeding bullet.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
What were the issues with your previous sail and what did you do to
"vastly improve" it.
Varnished the exterior bright work during lunch hour? Folks thats why
Bruce can build more Bolger boats than the rest of us, he's faster than
a speeding bullet.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>> I must have missed something, what happened to the Micro?
>>
> Things are going great with my Micro Navigator Rose. Now berthed just
> five minutes walk from my office. I am tinkering on the setup and
> fitout each lunch hour. Fixed the outboard motor problem last night
> but still need to replace lower unit oil seals. Yesterday I
> re-varnished the exterior brightwork. I have cut a new (vastly
> improved) polytarp mainsail, and the mizzen is next.
>
>
>> And are you still working on Topaz?
>>
>
> Yes, presently I am building the 'hinged fin motor shroud/boarding
> steps' for the stern. This is a fun part because it is kind of
> 'sculptural'. The pair of Perko gas tanks arrived in the mail the
> other day, waiting for install. I need to jack up the hull so I can
> swing the motor down to check clearances necessary to calculate the
> shape of the motorwell doors.
>
> Of course, this does not stop me from scheming to building another
> boat, I also want just the perfectly sized tender for my Micro.
>
>
>
> I must have missed something, what happened to the Micro?Things are going great with my Micro Navigator Rose. Now berthed just
five minutes walk from my office. I am tinkering on the setup and
fitout each lunch hour. Fixed the outboard motor problem last night
but still need to replace lower unit oil seals. Yesterday I
re-varnished the exterior brightwork. I have cut a new (vastly
improved) polytarp mainsail, and the mizzen is next.
> And are you still working on Topaz?Yes, presently I am building the 'hinged fin motor shroud/boarding
steps' for the stern. This is a fun part because it is kind of
'sculptural'. The pair of Perko gas tanks arrived in the mail the
other day, waiting for install. I need to jack up the hull so I can
swing the motor down to check clearances necessary to calculate the
shape of the motorwell doors.
Of course, this does not stop me from scheming to building another
boat, I also want just the perfectly sized tender for my Micro.
Bruce Hallman wrote:
still working on Topaz?
> Not a complete design, but enough to build from in theI must have missed something, what happened to the Micro? And are you
> Cartoon, in my opinion, and it would fit pretty on my now empty Micro
> trailer!
still working on Topaz?
Bruce,
That design certainly looks interesting. Is the Small Boat Journal article uploaded to one of the files sections in one of the Bolger groups. It would be interesting to read the write up on this design.
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
http://hallman.org/bolger/Cartoon7/Cartoon7.png
http://hallman.org/bolger/Cartoon7/Cartoon7.fbm
I can't really think of another completed Bolger design with the
capabilities of the old Small Boat Journal Cartoon 7, A Cold-Water
Outboard Cruiser. 15 HP, 1,800 lbs displacement. Note the buoyancy
curve provides lots of load carrying capacity aft, for enough fuel for
a 400 mile cruising distance. 21'3" x 7'2" with 9" draft and 4'8"
bridge clearance. Strip planked. Not with standing headroom, but
with generous roof hatches to allow standing at whim while sparing the
tophamper. Not a complete design, but enough to build from in the
Cartoon, in my opinion, and it would fit pretty on my now empty Micro
trailer!
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://au.messenger.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That design certainly looks interesting. Is the Small Boat Journal article uploaded to one of the files sections in one of the Bolger groups. It would be interesting to read the write up on this design.
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
http://hallman.org/bolger/Cartoon7/Cartoon7.png
http://hallman.org/bolger/Cartoon7/Cartoon7.fbm
I can't really think of another completed Bolger design with the
capabilities of the old Small Boat Journal Cartoon 7, A Cold-Water
Outboard Cruiser. 15 HP, 1,800 lbs displacement. Note the buoyancy
curve provides lots of load carrying capacity aft, for enough fuel for
a 400 mile cruising distance. 21'3" x 7'2" with 9" draft and 4'8"
bridge clearance. Strip planked. Not with standing headroom, but
with generous roof hatches to allow standing at whim while sparing the
tophamper. Not a complete design, but enough to build from in the
Cartoon, in my opinion, and it would fit pretty on my now empty Micro
trailer!
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://au.messenger.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://hallman.org/bolger/Cartoon7/Cartoon7.png
http://hallman.org/bolger/Cartoon7/Cartoon7.fbm
I can't really think of another completed Bolger design with the
capabilities of the old Small Boat Journal Cartoon 7, A Cold-Water
Outboard Cruiser. 15 HP, 1,800 lbs displacement. Note the buoyancy
curve provides lots of load carrying capacity aft, for enough fuel for
a 400 mile cruising distance. 21'3" x 7'2" with 9" draft and 4'8"
bridge clearance. Strip planked. Not with standing headroom, but
with generous roof hatches to allow standing at whim while sparing the
tophamper. Not a complete design, but enough to build from in the
Cartoon, in my opinion, and it would fit pretty on my now empty Micro
trailer!
http://hallman.org/bolger/Cartoon7/Cartoon7.fbm
I can't really think of another completed Bolger design with the
capabilities of the old Small Boat Journal Cartoon 7, A Cold-Water
Outboard Cruiser. 15 HP, 1,800 lbs displacement. Note the buoyancy
curve provides lots of load carrying capacity aft, for enough fuel for
a 400 mile cruising distance. 21'3" x 7'2" with 9" draft and 4'8"
bridge clearance. Strip planked. Not with standing headroom, but
with generous roof hatches to allow standing at whim while sparing the
tophamper. Not a complete design, but enough to build from in the
Cartoon, in my opinion, and it would fit pretty on my now empty Micro
trailer!