Re: [bolger] Re: Bolger cruising catamaran
Why are we starting new groups? Yahoo has gone to 100MB file space for files and for photos. All the Bolger files would fit on 4 sites with room left over if the different moderators could get together.
HJ
HJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Howard Stephenson <howardstephenson@...>
Date: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:55 pm
Subject: [bolger] Re: Bolger cruising catamaran
> I think it goes like this: get your browser to take you to
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/
>
> At the bottom of that page there should be button to click --
> something like "Join this Group".
>
> Howard
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ok now the next question is! How does one get into
> > Bolger 1 to 7 when you don't have an address? I know 1
> > to 6 show the other storage areas but 7 is not shown.
> > They seem to be hidden away from us not overly hip web
> > users....
> >
> > Blessings Krissie
> >
> >
Hello Bruce,
a question: did you ever do a freeship sketch of the 23'6" x 12'
Sharpie Concept Catamaran?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4photos/files/SharpieCat/
I'm guessing it drawn about the mid 90's, several years after
Cruising31.
A few years ago it sounded like someone was going to go ahead and
build one from the cartoon. Wonder how that went? Bolger (and
Chapelle I think) has said that sharpies are simple to build, but
designing a good one isn't.
23'6" Sharpie Catamaran would make a decent bay cruiser, and, with
appropriate caution, may be suitable for some coasting. The actual
workings of the centreboard (?) and rudder shown (barely) might well
require futher elaboration from PCB&F, but several other foil
options could substitute.
The design of the bridge deck house, shouldn't be too difficult
structurally - the walls would impart a lot of strength if tied
together sufficiently. The walls are a similar trick used by PCB on
Fishcat some time ago, and I've not heard of them failing. Actually
this Sharpie Catamaran reminds me much of Fishcat, which I've
thought could stand a sail much like Diablo:FMS). If Fishcat was
wanted more as a sailer then Sharpie Catamaran might be what PCB&F
would present.
I'd like one with the bridge tied on in Wharram fashion. That would
make it very trailerable.
The Bow Steerer concept failed, Auckland Cat, and Double Eagle had
problems, but these were not structural. Camping Tri, Three Metre
Tri, Fish Cat, Bantam Tri, and Tarantula Tri (an impressive rooster
tail), apparently were all ok.
I wonder if PCB&F might do it with fold-down walls now?
Graeme
a question: did you ever do a freeship sketch of the 23'6" x 12'
Sharpie Concept Catamaran?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4photos/files/SharpieCat/
I'm guessing it drawn about the mid 90's, several years after
Cruising31.
A few years ago it sounded like someone was going to go ahead and
build one from the cartoon. Wonder how that went? Bolger (and
Chapelle I think) has said that sharpies are simple to build, but
designing a good one isn't.
23'6" Sharpie Catamaran would make a decent bay cruiser, and, with
appropriate caution, may be suitable for some coasting. The actual
workings of the centreboard (?) and rudder shown (barely) might well
require futher elaboration from PCB&F, but several other foil
options could substitute.
The design of the bridge deck house, shouldn't be too difficult
structurally - the walls would impart a lot of strength if tied
together sufficiently. The walls are a similar trick used by PCB on
Fishcat some time ago, and I've not heard of them failing. Actually
this Sharpie Catamaran reminds me much of Fishcat, which I've
thought could stand a sail much like Diablo:FMS). If Fishcat was
wanted more as a sailer then Sharpie Catamaran might be what PCB&F
would present.
I'd like one with the bridge tied on in Wharram fashion. That would
make it very trailerable.
The Bow Steerer concept failed, Auckland Cat, and Double Eagle had
problems, but these were not structural. Camping Tri, Three Metre
Tri, Fish Cat, Bantam Tri, and Tarantula Tri (an impressive rooster
tail), apparently were all ok.
I wonder if PCB&F might do it with fold-down walls now?
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> Here is a quickie 3D sketch of that 31ft cat. Interesting rig. I
> don't know of an easy way to berth a 16 foot wide boat near where I
> live.
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/CruisingCat31/CruisingCat31.png
>
I think it goes like this: get your browser to take you to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/
At the bottom of that page there should be button to click --
something like "Join this Group".
Howard
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/
At the bottom of that page there should be button to click --
something like "Join this Group".
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Ok now the next question is! How does one get into
> Bolger 1 to 7 when you don't have an address? I know 1
> to 6 show the other storage areas but 7 is not shown.
> They seem to be hidden away from us not overly hip web
> users....
>
> Blessings Krissie
>
> --- Howard Stephenson <howardstephenson@...>
> wrote:
>
> > It's there, in the Bolger 7 Yahoo Group, not this
> > one.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
_______________
> Need Mail bonding?
> Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
>http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "twlyon24" <twlyon24@...> wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/files/
Also if you look at the home page of the Bolger group (main) that
you're reading this onhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/you'll
see there are lots of other Bolgergroups to join in.
There are others too. Like
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/?
yguid=140880010
and
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4photos/?yguid=140880010
and quiescent ones like
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerOldshoe/?yguid=140880010
and
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger_Rants/?yguid=140880010
that are looking for an owner/moderator.
HTH
Graeme
>Here at page bottom of bolger7 group's files page
> I can't find this in the files section.
> Can you provide more pointers? Thanks.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/files/
Also if you look at the home page of the Bolger group (main) that
you're reading this onhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/you'll
see there are lots of other Bolgergroups to join in.
There are others too. Like
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/?
yguid=140880010
and
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4photos/?yguid=140880010
and quiescent ones like
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerOldshoe/?yguid=140880010
and
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger_Rants/?yguid=140880010
that are looking for an owner/moderator.
HTH
Graeme
Ok now the next question is! How does one get into
Bolger 1 to 7 when you don't have an address? I know 1
to 6 show the other storage areas but 7 is not shown.
They seem to be hidden away from us not overly hip web
users....
Blessings Krissie
--- Howard Stephenson <howardstephenson@...>
wrote:
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
Bolger 1 to 7 when you don't have an address? I know 1
to 6 show the other storage areas but 7 is not shown.
They seem to be hidden away from us not overly hip web
users....
Blessings Krissie
--- Howard Stephenson <howardstephenson@...>
wrote:
> It's there, in the Bolger 7 Yahoo Group, not this____________________________________________________________________________________
> one.
>
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
It's there, in the Bolger 7 Yahoo Group, not this one.
I have grave doubts about any of Bolger's sailing cat designs because
I doubt whether he has the required experience or the mechanical-
engineering skill and training.
But then there are plenty who've designed successful sailing cats with
little of either including, I suspect, James Wharram when he started
out.
Howard
I have grave doubts about any of Bolger's sailing cat designs because
I doubt whether he has the required experience or the mechanical-
engineering skill and training.
But then there are plenty who've designed successful sailing cats with
little of either including, I suspect, James Wharram when he started
out.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "twlyon24" <twlyon24@...> wrote:
>
> Ok, maybe I'm just dense.... I can't find this in the files section.
> Can you provide more pointers? Thanks.
Ok, maybe I'm just dense.... I can't find this in the files section.
Can you provide more pointers? Thanks.
Can you provide more pointers? Thanks.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@...> wrote:
>
>
> I was finally able to scan the picture in Derek Harvey's book of the
> Bolger cruising cat on page 100. It is now in Bolger 7 in the files
> section under a file called Bolger Catamaran
>
> Sorry it took me so long to do this, still...better late than never
>
> ....there is something very distracting going on just now, as I
> write, fireworks are booming out, which I think are farewelling the
> QM2 from Sydney Harbour, and yet here am I uploading this file??
> makes you wonder
>
> Oh well
>
> Greg F
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
> > > It also appears in MAIB, Vol.9 (1991-1992) Issue 13. The
> > > illustration is the same. The writeup consists of a single
> > paragraph,
> > > as was typical of the Bolger articles in that time period. Quoted
> > > below:
> > >
> > > 31' Cruising Catamaran
> > >
> > > 31'0"x16'0"x1'6"...
> >
> > Thanks for this Bruce.
> >
> > This boat could be considered a tacking outrigger, a type gaining
> > some interest lately. Even Wharram et al are designing toward
> > cruising examples, they see it as kind of back to the future.
> >
> > OTOH the boat could be considered an extreme example of a Harry
> Proa
> > type, in this case non-shunting. This Pacific type has the
> > accommodation in the windward hull, and rig etc on the lee hull,
> and
> > is gaining in standing amongst cruising proa fans.
> >
> > Was PCB, out of the box, and way off in front of the pack yet again
> > back in 1991? Does his concept plan lead back to the future?
> >
> > I still, however, am unsure of the merits of "less jagged stability
> > curve" for Cruising. The curve benefits claimed seem more
> > intuitively obvious for Singlehander
> >
> > Graeme
> >
>
Yes, I guess so Graeme
Actually it wasn't the fireworks I was missing, we get far too many
of them in this city, it was the ship itself. But really, it is more
a nostalgia for ships past which did have style. The QM1 certainly
had/has style. The QM2 is better than some other blocks of flats in
that respect, but it sure lacks style compared to the older liners.
The media here have been making a real thing of the meeting in the
harbour last night of the QM2 & the QE2 and how their namesakes last
did that off the Heads in 1941 etc etc. There's been a lot of hype!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
Actually it wasn't the fireworks I was missing, we get far too many
of them in this city, it was the ship itself. But really, it is more
a nostalgia for ships past which did have style. The QM1 certainly
had/has style. The QM2 is better than some other blocks of flats in
that respect, but it sure lacks style compared to the older liners.
The media here have been making a real thing of the meeting in the
harbour last night of the QM2 & the QE2 and how their namesakes last
did that off the Heads in 1941 etc etc. There's been a lot of hype!
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>the
> Thanks for providing this much clearer scan Greg.
>
> As to the fireworks missed - I guess it only goes to show there are
> different ways of cruising.
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
> > I was finally able to scan the picture in Derek Harvey's book of
> > Bolger cruising cat on page 100... yet here am I uploading this
> >file?? makes you wonder
>
Thanks for providing this much clearer scan Greg.
As to the fireworks missed - I guess it only goes to show there are
different ways of cruising.
Graeme
As to the fireworks missed - I guess it only goes to show there are
different ways of cruising.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@...> wrote:
> I was finally able to scan the picture in Derek Harvey's book of the
> Bolger cruising cat on page 100... yet here am I uploading this
>file?? makes you wonder
I was finally able to scan the picture in Derek Harvey's book of the
Bolger cruising cat on page 100. It is now in Bolger 7 in the files
section under a file called Bolger Catamaran
Sorry it took me so long to do this, still...better late than never
....there is something very distracting going on just now, as I
write, fireworks are booming out, which I think are farewelling the
QM2 from Sydney Harbour, and yet here am I uploading this file??
makes you wonder
Oh well
Greg F
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
Bolger cruising cat on page 100. It is now in Bolger 7 in the files
section under a file called Bolger Catamaran
Sorry it took me so long to do this, still...better late than never
....there is something very distracting going on just now, as I
write, fireworks are booming out, which I think are farewelling the
QM2 from Sydney Harbour, and yet here am I uploading this file??
makes you wonder
Oh well
Greg F
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>Proa
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
> > It also appears in MAIB, Vol.9 (1991-1992) Issue 13. The
> > illustration is the same. The writeup consists of a single
> paragraph,
> > as was typical of the Bolger articles in that time period. Quoted
> > below:
> >
> > 31' Cruising Catamaran
> >
> > 31'0"x16'0"x1'6"...
>
> Thanks for this Bruce.
>
> This boat could be considered a tacking outrigger, a type gaining
> some interest lately. Even Wharram et al are designing toward
> cruising examples, they see it as kind of back to the future.
>
> OTOH the boat could be considered an extreme example of a Harry
> type, in this case non-shunting. This Pacific type has theand
> accommodation in the windward hull, and rig etc on the lee hull,
> is gaining in standing amongst cruising proa fans.
>
> Was PCB, out of the box, and way off in front of the pack yet again
> back in 1991? Does his concept plan lead back to the future?
>
> I still, however, am unsure of the merits of "less jagged stability
> curve" for Cruising. The curve benefits claimed seem more
> intuitively obvious for Singlehander
>
> Graeme
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
This boat could be considered a tacking outrigger, a type gaining
some interest lately. Even Wharram et al are designing toward
cruising examples, they see it as kind of back to the future.
OTOH the boat could be considered an extreme example of a Harry Proa
type, in this case non-shunting. This Pacific type has the
accommodation in the windward hull, and rig etc on the lee hull, and
is gaining in standing amongst cruising proa fans.
Was PCB, out of the box, and way off in front of the pack yet again
back in 1991? Does his concept plan lead back to the future?
I still, however, am unsure of the merits of "less jagged stability
curve" for Cruising. The curve benefits claimed seem more
intuitively obvious for Singlehander
Graeme
> It also appears in MAIB, Vol.9 (1991-1992) Issue 13. Theparagraph,
> illustration is the same. The writeup consists of a single
> as was typical of the Bolger articles in that time period. QuotedThanks for this Bruce.
> below:
>
> 31' Cruising Catamaran
>
> 31'0"x16'0"x1'6"...
This boat could be considered a tacking outrigger, a type gaining
some interest lately. Even Wharram et al are designing toward
cruising examples, they see it as kind of back to the future.
OTOH the boat could be considered an extreme example of a Harry Proa
type, in this case non-shunting. This Pacific type has the
accommodation in the windward hull, and rig etc on the lee hull, and
is gaining in standing amongst cruising proa fans.
Was PCB, out of the box, and way off in front of the pack yet again
back in 1991? Does his concept plan lead back to the future?
I still, however, am unsure of the merits of "less jagged stability
curve" for Cruising. The curve benefits claimed seem more
intuitively obvious for Singlehander
Graeme
Here is a quickie 3D sketch of that 31ft cat. Interesting rig. I
don't know of an easy way to berth a 16 foot wide boat near where I
live.
http://hallman.org/bolger/CruisingCat31/CruisingCat31.png
don't know of an easy way to berth a 16 foot wide boat near where I
live.
http://hallman.org/bolger/CruisingCat31/CruisingCat31.png
There are some small cruising multihulls at this site, I have been interested in the 24 C and the 24 T for a long time.
http://www.prcn.org/kismet/
HJ
http://www.prcn.org/kismet/
HJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Albanese <marka@...>
Date: Monday, February 19, 2007 1:34 am
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Bolger cruising catamaran
>
> On Feb 18, 2007, at 11:04 PM, graeme19121984 wrote:
>
> > Is speed the only reason to build a cat?
>
> The crusiing cat certainly would be that. The Lundstrom rig points
>
> well with no spar mess along the edges and can be made double in
> order to wing and wing. One the mast is standing, it's also easy
> to use.
>
> The hulls themselves obviously have very little in the water.
>
>
>
> Cats with a bridge deck spanning the hulls appeal to me. Apart
> from
> speed, it offers a lot of safe and secure sprawl space on a small
> displacement. And stuff can still be kept in the separate hulls.
>
> Apart from gin palaces, Jeff Gilbert's Gumboots, and the Marples
> and
> Brown Banca cats offer this in smaller sizes.
>
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/01/designs/gilbert/gumboots/index.htm
>http://www.boatshop.com.ph/portfolio/Lumba-lumba.html
>
> Some Bolger detail for an aft mast are in BWAOM chapter 30.
>
>
>
> I would like to see more detail, and some dimensions for this boat.It also appears in MAIB, Vol.9 (1991-1992) Issue 13. The
> I wonder if there is another study plan around?
illustration is the same. The writeup consists of a single paragraph,
as was typical of the Bolger articles in that time period. Quoted
below:
31' Cruising Catamaran
31'0"x16'0"x1'6"
I made this concept study as an illustration for a British book about
cruising multihull design. The wide hulls with all accommodation in
the hulls, and the asymmetrical layout with most of the propulsion and
control in one hull and most of the accommodation in the other, are
notions I've often pushed, without arousing much interest so far. The
'back staysail' is to balance the exaggerated lee helm of a reefed
staysail cat. This rig is docile to handle though, unless sailed by a
super expert, it isn't as fast as a conventional cat or sloop. For a
mulithull the worthwhile virtue is that it has minimal tendency to
push the bow down."
On Feb 18, 2007, at 11:04 PM, graeme19121984 wrote:
well with no spar mess along the edges and can be made double in
order to wing and wing. One the mast is standing, it's also easy to use.
The hulls themselves obviously have very little in the water.
Cats with a bridge deck spanning the hulls appeal to me. Apart from
speed, it offers a lot of safe and secure sprawl space on a small
displacement. And stuff can still be kept in the separate hulls.
Apart from gin palaces, Jeff Gilbert's Gumboots, and the Marples and
Brown Banca cats offer this in smaller sizes.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/01/designs/gilbert/gumboots/index.htm
http://www.boatshop.com.ph/portfolio/Lumba-lumba.html
Some Bolger detail for an aft mast are in BWAOM chapter 30.
> Is speed the only reason to build a cat?The crusiing cat certainly would be that. The Lundstrom rig points
well with no spar mess along the edges and can be made double in
order to wing and wing. One the mast is standing, it's also easy to use.
The hulls themselves obviously have very little in the water.
Cats with a bridge deck spanning the hulls appeal to me. Apart from
speed, it offers a lot of safe and secure sprawl space on a small
displacement. And stuff can still be kept in the separate hulls.
Apart from gin palaces, Jeff Gilbert's Gumboots, and the Marples and
Brown Banca cats offer this in smaller sizes.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/01/designs/gilbert/gumboots/index.htm
http://www.boatshop.com.ph/portfolio/Lumba-lumba.html
Some Bolger detail for an aft mast are in BWAOM chapter 30.
The small image shown at page
http://uk.geocities.com/martinlloyd.uk@.../PCB_CRUISING_CA
T.html
is 265KB and if saved it can be much enlarged in a viewer. Is this
image from the 1991, 179pp, hardcover edition, or from the Adlard
Coles Nautical, 192pp, 2003 paperback edition of "Multihulls for
Cruising and Racing" by Derek Harvey?
I would like to see more detail, and some dimensions for this boat.
I wonder if there is another study plan around?
The "Cruising" concept (20+ x 14ft+ ?) seems quite similar to the
Singlehander Catamaran #523 ( http://hallman.org/sbj/27/sbj27.gif ),
20 x 7ft, in BWAOM. A bigger project in kind designed not only for
bed, and breakfast, but also for lunch, dinner, and designed for
easier construction?
If I'm correct in estimating the Cruising staysail area at a bit
over 200sqft, then I think I'd prefer the Singlehander 236sqft rig.
The mast could possibly be stepped to take advantage of the Cruising
centreboard case and eliminate staying.
If Cruising is not particularly speedy, then perhaps a dipping
lugsail with very easily lowered mast would be a good option?
As regards speed PCB"s comment "But, if what you're after is all-
around spirited behaviour that doesn't demand fierce concentration,
and if you don't want to hire a motorboat to follow you and right
the boat when you capsize, there's a lot to be said for making the
hulls wide and bouyant..." is reminiscent of his thoughts on beamy,
V-bottom, big rockered Cartoon 40 (
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/Cartoon%
2040/ also http://hallman.org/SBJ/64/ ).
Writing in 1994, some years after #523 appeared in BWAOM, at page 69
in his book "Multihull Voyaging", the lamentably late Tom F Jones
offers that PCB had just recently then told him that he was thinking
of a cruising catamaran with rig on one side and accomodation on the
other. TFJ reckoned at the very least it would need a different
daggerboard for each tack. Does PCB's reasoning for the broad
triangular centreboard also stretch to cover TFJ's point arrived at
through much catamaran biplane rig experience? For Cruising
Catamaran he's inferring there would be "terrific" lee helm on
starboard tack, and equally "terrific" weather helm on port tack.
TFJ's daggerboard suggestion would be somewhat like SA's "self
correcting geometry" of windward hull centreboards in PCB&F's Proa
60 concept study (
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proa_file6/files/Bolger%206020proa/ )
and some of his trimarans.
On the other hand Cruising is of relatively modest overall beam,
large rocker. And it would be hard to get a multihull mast further
aft!
Cruising would have good internal sightlines for so short a boat -
mitigating against cabin fever - and has few windows. PCB may have
considered this factor with TFJ's other design criteria for a haven
from the ocean. TFJ said James Wharram needs to make portlights so
small that a deliberate effort is required to look outside.
Is speed the only reason to build a cat?
Graeme
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
http://uk.geocities.com/martinlloyd.uk@.../PCB_CRUISING_CA
T.html
is 265KB and if saved it can be much enlarged in a viewer. Is this
image from the 1991, 179pp, hardcover edition, or from the Adlard
Coles Nautical, 192pp, 2003 paperback edition of "Multihulls for
Cruising and Racing" by Derek Harvey?
I would like to see more detail, and some dimensions for this boat.
I wonder if there is another study plan around?
The "Cruising" concept (20+ x 14ft+ ?) seems quite similar to the
Singlehander Catamaran #523 ( http://hallman.org/sbj/27/sbj27.gif ),
20 x 7ft, in BWAOM. A bigger project in kind designed not only for
bed, and breakfast, but also for lunch, dinner, and designed for
easier construction?
If I'm correct in estimating the Cruising staysail area at a bit
over 200sqft, then I think I'd prefer the Singlehander 236sqft rig.
The mast could possibly be stepped to take advantage of the Cruising
centreboard case and eliminate staying.
If Cruising is not particularly speedy, then perhaps a dipping
lugsail with very easily lowered mast would be a good option?
As regards speed PCB"s comment "But, if what you're after is all-
around spirited behaviour that doesn't demand fierce concentration,
and if you don't want to hire a motorboat to follow you and right
the boat when you capsize, there's a lot to be said for making the
hulls wide and bouyant..." is reminiscent of his thoughts on beamy,
V-bottom, big rockered Cartoon 40 (
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/files/Cartoon%
2040/ also http://hallman.org/SBJ/64/ ).
Writing in 1994, some years after #523 appeared in BWAOM, at page 69
in his book "Multihull Voyaging", the lamentably late Tom F Jones
offers that PCB had just recently then told him that he was thinking
of a cruising catamaran with rig on one side and accomodation on the
other. TFJ reckoned at the very least it would need a different
daggerboard for each tack. Does PCB's reasoning for the broad
triangular centreboard also stretch to cover TFJ's point arrived at
through much catamaran biplane rig experience? For Cruising
Catamaran he's inferring there would be "terrific" lee helm on
starboard tack, and equally "terrific" weather helm on port tack.
TFJ's daggerboard suggestion would be somewhat like SA's "self
correcting geometry" of windward hull centreboards in PCB&F's Proa
60 concept study (
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proa_file6/files/Bolger%206020proa/ )
and some of his trimarans.
On the other hand Cruising is of relatively modest overall beam,
large rocker. And it would be hard to get a multihull mast further
aft!
Cruising would have good internal sightlines for so short a boat -
mitigating against cabin fever - and has few windows. PCB may have
considered this factor with TFJ's other design criteria for a haven
from the ocean. TFJ said James Wharram needs to make portlights so
small that a deliberate effort is required to look outside.
Is speed the only reason to build a cat?
Graeme
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
> http://uk.geocities.com/martinlloyd.uk@.../PCB_CRUISING_CAT.html
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:Couldn't find it in group archives where I thought it might be....
> Ah! well....will have to scan the images in the book and post
>in the files section of Bolger 7 tomorrow
Ahh, google was going to be tiring, so I searched from the box above
for "bolger cruising catamaran Derek Harvey". Some interesting
returns - among them this:
Expand this message thread
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/40850
to find a link
http://uk.geocities.com/martinlloyd.uk@.../PCB_CRUISING_CA
T.html
and it must be this pic that I copied.
I haven't uploaded it to the groups anywhere as I bet you can
probably provide a bigger clearer scan (fingers crossed).
Must make an photo album, or file folder in one of the bolgergroups
for all the catamarans (other multis?) together.
Cheers
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, that's the one Graeme All the accomodation in the port hull
> and the engine, centreboard, mast, rudder, motor and cockpit all
in
> the starboard hull. There is sprit boomed rigged mizzen hanging
> off one of the backstays, too.
>
> A modest overall breadth produces a less jagged stability
> curve....yes....right!
>
> Greg F
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Greg,
> >
> > does that have the aft masted wishbone sprit staysail on the
port
> > 90deg V-bottom hull? Along with the centreboard and a workshop?
> >
> > If so I have a slightly cropped pic of it that I would have
> probably
> > gotten from one of the Bolger groups in December 04. IIRC there
> was
> > some discussion of her distinctive features.
> >
> > I still don't get "less jagged stability curve". Does that mean
> > easier capsize, but with a little warning first?
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ah! well....will have to scan the images in the book and
post
> in
> > the
> > > files section of Bolger 7 tomorrow
> >
>
I just did a reply to this message but can't seem to find it now?
...anyway...the boat that Graeme is talking about is indeed the
boat. The measurements that you have mentioned Graeme would seem to
be about right too.
Very unusual and provocative concept I think
Can't scan it today, will have to try tomorrow
Greg
...anyway...the boat that Graeme is talking about is indeed the
boat. The measurements that you have mentioned Graeme would seem to
be about right too.
Very unusual and provocative concept I think
Can't scan it today, will have to try tomorrow
Greg
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Greg,
> >
> > does that have the aft masted wishbone sprit staysail on the
port
> > 90deg V-bottom hull? Along with the centreboard and a workshop?
> >
> > If so I have a slightly cropped pic of it that I would have
> probably
> > gotten from one of the Bolger groups in December 04. IIRC there
> was
> > some discussion of her distinctive features.
> >
> > I still don't get "less jagged stability curve". Does that mean
> > easier capsize, but with a little warning first?
> >
> > It would be great to find as a finished design.
> >
> > Graeme
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ah! well....will have to scan the images in the book and
post
> in
> > the
> > > files section of Bolger 7 tomorrow
> >
>
Yes, that's the one Graeme All the accomodation in the port hull
and the engine, centreboard, mast, rudder, motor and cockpit all in
the starboard hull. There is sprit boomed rigged mizzen hanging
off one of the backstays, too.
A modest overall breadth produces a less jagged stability
curve....yes....right!
Greg F
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
and the engine, centreboard, mast, rudder, motor and cockpit all in
the starboard hull. There is sprit boomed rigged mizzen hanging
off one of the backstays, too.
A modest overall breadth produces a less jagged stability
curve....yes....right!
Greg F
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>probably
> Greg,
>
> does that have the aft masted wishbone sprit staysail on the port
> 90deg V-bottom hull? Along with the centreboard and a workshop?
>
> If so I have a slightly cropped pic of it that I would have
> gotten from one of the Bolger groups in December 04. IIRC therewas
> some discussion of her distinctive features.in
>
> I still don't get "less jagged stability curve". Does that mean
> easier capsize, but with a little warning first?
>
> It would be great to find as a finished design.
>
> Graeme
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
> >
> > Ah! well....will have to scan the images in the book and post
> the
> > files section of Bolger 7 tomorrow
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
wrote:
>probably
> Greg,
>
> does that have the aft masted wishbone sprit staysail on the port
> 90deg V-bottom hull? Along with the centreboard and a workshop?
>
> If so I have a slightly cropped pic of it that I would have
> gotten from one of the Bolger groups in December 04. IIRC therewas
> some discussion of her distinctive features.in
>
> I still don't get "less jagged stability curve". Does that mean
> easier capsize, but with a little warning first?
>
> It would be great to find as a finished design.
>
> Graeme
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@> wrote:
> >
> > Ah! well....will have to scan the images in the book and post
> the
> > files section of Bolger 7 tomorrow
>
Bruce,
that would be an interesting one to see. Was it also of relatively
modest breadth?
This ply home buildable design is something over 20Ft long. Hull
beam is something like a whopping 6ft. Overall beam is about 14Ft.
Hull centrelines about 8ft apart. Min draft about 18", and with
board down about another 4ft. Mast height about 35ft, and sail area
about 220sqft. Access and standing room under small area raised
cuddy. These dimensions are difficult to scale and it may be 50%
more. I've worked from a supposed 6ft height below the cuddy. L/B
about 10/3. Not a fast boat, but roomy, liveable, and, for a cat,
burdensome. I doubt it much faster than a Bolger box, less level
riding than a conventional cat at anchor, but probably more
liveable. That's a real cruising cat able to take some rough sea;
not a gin-palace, high-rise, bridgedeck housed one.
Mast with simplified rig, inboard engine, centreboard, working area,
and a cockpit similar to AS29 in starboard (sorry for previous
mixup) hull. Domestic accomodation in port hull - possibly double in
aft cabin (but may be storage), and two single convertable berths in
midships saloon. I'd say you could opt to have some accomodation in
the starboard hull, but then isn't that what a work shed is for some
guys? Boarding (& swimming) step off the port transom for the dinghy
stowed aft on that side.
Very unusual for a cruising cat: a 20deg heeling angle shown,
compared to the usual 5deg max. Beyond the 20deg? Not sure if the
windward hull would then dangerously fly as suddenly as usual, or
that the leeward bow would tend to pitchpole (lots of bouyancy
there). In calculating seaworthiness Bolger may have gotten back
here what was traded off in speed.
Graeme
that would be an interesting one to see. Was it also of relatively
modest breadth?
This ply home buildable design is something over 20Ft long. Hull
beam is something like a whopping 6ft. Overall beam is about 14Ft.
Hull centrelines about 8ft apart. Min draft about 18", and with
board down about another 4ft. Mast height about 35ft, and sail area
about 220sqft. Access and standing room under small area raised
cuddy. These dimensions are difficult to scale and it may be 50%
more. I've worked from a supposed 6ft height below the cuddy. L/B
about 10/3. Not a fast boat, but roomy, liveable, and, for a cat,
burdensome. I doubt it much faster than a Bolger box, less level
riding than a conventional cat at anchor, but probably more
liveable. That's a real cruising cat able to take some rough sea;
not a gin-palace, high-rise, bridgedeck housed one.
Mast with simplified rig, inboard engine, centreboard, working area,
and a cockpit similar to AS29 in starboard (sorry for previous
mixup) hull. Domestic accomodation in port hull - possibly double in
aft cabin (but may be storage), and two single convertable berths in
midships saloon. I'd say you could opt to have some accomodation in
the starboard hull, but then isn't that what a work shed is for some
guys? Boarding (& swimming) step off the port transom for the dinghy
stowed aft on that side.
Very unusual for a cruising cat: a 20deg heeling angle shown,
compared to the usual 5deg max. Beyond the 20deg? Not sure if the
windward hull would then dangerously fly as suddenly as usual, or
that the leeward bow would tend to pitchpole (lots of bouyancy
there). In calculating seaworthiness Bolger may have gotten back
here what was traded off in speed.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
> About 50 feet long? There is a similar (or same) from an MAIB
circa
> 1998, except I don't remember the workshop, but I do remember that
it
> was set up to handle three couples, in three staterooms.
>
On 2/14/07, graeme19121984 <graeme19121984@...> wrote:
1998, except I don't remember the workshop, but I do remember that it
was set up to handle three couples, in three staterooms.
>About 50 feet long? There is a similar (or same) from an MAIB circa
> Greg,
>
> does that have the aft masted wishbone sprit staysail on the port
> 90deg V-bottom hull? Along with the centreboard and a workshop?
1998, except I don't remember the workshop, but I do remember that it
was set up to handle three couples, in three staterooms.
Greg,
does that have the aft masted wishbone sprit staysail on the port
90deg V-bottom hull? Along with the centreboard and a workshop?
If so I have a slightly cropped pic of it that I would have probably
gotten from one of the Bolger groups in December 04. IIRC there was
some discussion of her distinctive features.
I still don't get "less jagged stability curve". Does that mean
easier capsize, but with a little warning first?
It would be great to find as a finished design.
Graeme
does that have the aft masted wishbone sprit staysail on the port
90deg V-bottom hull? Along with the centreboard and a workshop?
If so I have a slightly cropped pic of it that I would have probably
gotten from one of the Bolger groups in December 04. IIRC there was
some discussion of her distinctive features.
I still don't get "less jagged stability curve". Does that mean
easier capsize, but with a little warning first?
It would be great to find as a finished design.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Flemming" <greg@...> wrote:
>
> Ah! well....will have to scan the images in the book and post in
the
> files section of Bolger 7 tomorrow
Ah! well....will have to scan the images in the book and post in the
files section of Bolger 7 tomorrow
Greg F
files section of Bolger 7 tomorrow
Greg F
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have not been able to find any posts regarding the Bolger designed
> > catamaran that appears on page 100 of Derek Harvey's book,
Multihulls
> > for Cruising & Racing".
>
> I would need to see pg 100. Bolger has several cruising catamaran's
designs.
>
>I would need to see pg 100. Bolger has several cruising catamaran's designs.
> I have not been able to find any posts regarding the Bolger designed
> catamaran that appears on page 100 of Derek Harvey's book, Multihulls
> for Cruising & Racing".
I have not been able to find any posts regarding the Bolger designed
catamaran that appears on page 100 of Derek Harvey's book, Multihulls
for Cruising & Racing".
This looks to me like a very interesting design study perhaps, but I
wonder if it was produced as a full design. Narrow overall beam, big
chunky single chine hulls, accommodation in one hull only and motor
etc in the other
Greg F
catamaran that appears on page 100 of Derek Harvey's book, Multihulls
for Cruising & Racing".
This looks to me like a very interesting design study perhaps, but I
wonder if it was produced as a full design. Narrow overall beam, big
chunky single chine hulls, accommodation in one hull only and motor
etc in the other
Greg F