Re: [bolger] Bolger retro outboard runabout

On 2/15/07, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...> wrote:

>
>
> Bruce,
>
> How's the "Topaz" coming along? Surely she should be ready for launching soon?

My Topaz Spyder is coming along great. It would float now, and I am
presently working on interior fitout. Launching soon, maybe not, as I
am averaging about one work day a week on Topaz, with the rest of my
life taking the rest of my time. Plus, I am squeezing in some time
for sailing my sailboat now too, as I have a marina berth. I will
try to put up some Topaz photos, though it is hard to get a good angle
for a photograph in my tight shop.

Bruce,

How's the "Topaz" coming along? Surely she should be ready for launching soon?

Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:

> > will likely take 3-5 times as long to build and finish, especially
> > with that fancy interior -- assuming you want it "nice" of course.
>
> I wasn't thinking 'nice', but simply neat and servicable.

This could make a big difference then.

> My 'baseline' for my cold molding time estimate was the
> forward deck on my Topaz Spyder, which I cold molded.
> That deck is about 10 feet long and 5 feet wide (50 square
> feet). I built and rough sanded the skin, 60 sf of surface
> area, in one day.

But isn't this deck a simple, slightly convex curved surface? I think the retro runabout has some concavity in the fore hulls, and some rather hard convex bends in other places to add to the challenge ... and you would have to work on the retro hull at all kinds of possibly uncomfortable or difficult angles instead of mostly flat like your Topaz deck.

> The retro runabout has about 16 ft x (6+6+3+3) or about
> 300 SF of skin, with should rough out six days if my
> production rate per square foot proved to be the same.

Given the retro runabout's varying radius curves and its concave bow section, and the fact that it's not all a nearly horizontal work surface, maybe it will take an extra couple of days ... ?

> I am guessing I could build and rough sand the skin of
> a Diablo in three days.

Yes, Diablo would be pretty fast to construct. I want to build one for myself when I have a chance "some day" ... just like I want a dozen other Bolger boats some day ... :)

Sincerely,
Kenneth Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com

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Back to the windscreen brackets! If these are wrong, by that I mean they are too upright or too big or the angle is wrong it will wreck the look of the boat! Bolger writes in the BWAOM on "Snow Leopard" that the windscreens on "Snow Leopard" aren't very good aero-dynamically but anything else just wouldn't look right! (This is a very loose paraphrase of what he said!)

An tall upright wooden windscreen would absolutely kill the looks of this cool little runabout! It masybe more effective, simpler to build and cheaper......but....errrrrrrr.

Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:

On 2/13/07, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:

>will likely take 3-5 times as long to build and finish, especially
with that fancy interior -- assuming you want it "nice" of course.

I wasn't thinking 'nice', but simply neat and servicable.

My 'baseline' for my cold molding time estimate was the forward deck
on my Topaz Spyder, which I cold molded. [And which, by the way, looks
hot! <grin>]

That deck is about 10 feet long and 5 feet wide (50 square feet). I
built and rough sanded the skin, 60 sf of surface area, in one day.
The retro runabout has about 16 ft x (6+6+3+3) or about 300 SF of
skin, with should rough out six days if my production rate per square
foot proved to be the same. I am guessing I could build and rough
sand the skin of a Diablo in three days.

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> > will likely take 3-5 times as long to build and finish, especially
> > with that fancy interior -- assuming you want it "nice" of course.
>
> I wasn't thinking 'nice', but simply neat and servicable.

This could make a big difference then.

> My 'baseline' for my cold molding time estimate was the
> forward deck on my Topaz Spyder, which I cold molded.
> That deck is about 10 feet long and 5 feet wide (50 square
> feet). I built and rough sanded the skin, 60 sf of surface
> area, in one day.

> The retro runabout has about 16 ft x (6+6+3+3) or about
> 300 SF of skin, with should rough out six days if my
> production rate per square foot proved to be the same.

Given the retro runabout's varying radius curves and its concave bow section, and the fact that it's not all a nearly horizontal work surface, maybe it will take an extra couple of days ... ?

> I am guessing I could build and rough sand the skin of
> a Diablo in three days.

On 2/13/07, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:

>will likely take 3-5 times as long to build and finish, especially

with that fancy interior -- assuming you want it "nice" of course.

I wasn't thinking 'nice', but simply neat and servicable.

My 'baseline' for my cold molding time estimate was the forward deck
on my Topaz Spyder, which I cold molded. [And which, by the way, looks
hot! <grin>]

That deck is about 10 feet long and 5 feet wide (50 square feet). I
built and rough sanded the skin, 60 sf of surface area, in one day.
The retro runabout has about 16 ft x (6+6+3+3) or about 300 SF of
skin, with should rough out six days if my production rate per square
foot proved to be the same. I am guessing I could build and rough
sand the skin of a Diablo in three days.

Window moulding - I think that I'd be inclined to cut
it from sheet and braze or solder on the detail before
sending it for plating - that sort of long thin
section would be very awkward to cast using amateur
methods and you'd have a lot of cleaning up to do
afterwards as well as correcting
distortion.Professionally they would probably be
diecast but the expense of a mould for a one-off would
be horrendous.If you know a shop that uses waterjet
cutting you could get it done in stainless
cheers
Andy Airey

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Hi Bruce, that's a nice boat for sure!

> Yet not that much more work than the similarly sized Diablo. Probably
> twice the hours and ten times the resale value.

Diablo is simple plywood panels over frames / bulkheads that become part of the boat. The Retro Runabout looks like a strip planked or cold molded project to me, either of which will likely take 3-5 times as long to build and finish, especially with that fancy interior -- assuming you want it "nice" of course.

> The window molding would need a little custom chrome work, has anybody
> done that? I take it you cast in a mold using peuter (or bronze?) ,
> and then send it out to the chrome plating shop.

I think most older boats like this runabout used simple wooden window frames, didn't they?

Sincerely,
Kenneth Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com

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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...> wrote:

> > The window molding would need a little custom chrome
> > work, has anybody
> > done that?

There are replacement windshield fram parts available for old Chris
Crafts, etc through Glen-L and others.

I think most outboards, new or old, look kinda weird. So a 50's OB
will be as unflattering as a new one in my eye. Yeah, another 3' to
5' and an inboard would be handsome indeed.

Don Schultz

On 2/12/07, Hugo Tyson <hhetyson@...> wrote:

>
> 4 -5 x the hours at least of building a diablo if you want something decent to look at!

I confess I am agressively optimistic. Yet, here are my logical
reasons: Both boats are relatively small, and have the same weight
and similar surface area. Many elements of the Diablo and of the
retro runabout are about equal. Both have similar amounts of work in
the transom, motor mount, stem, fiberglass, epoxy finish, frames.

As, more than half of the inaccessible interior of the retro runabout
does not require as much sanding (or paint), the retro runabout indeed
has a bit less surface sanding (and paint) than the Diablo. The retro
also has less work for floatation chambers.

> It would have to be cold moulded of at least 3 layers with the outer layer running fore and aft, preferably mahogany.

I imagined a painted exterior, and yes, mahogany (and bright finishes)
would add considerable time but could be omitted and still end up with
a very nice looking boat. Also, I have had success with two layer
cold molding, and on a small boat two layers covered with glass cloth
would be plenty strong.

4 -5 x the hours at least of building a diablo if you want something decent to look at! It would have to be cold moulded of at least 3 layers with the outer layer running fore and aft, preferably mahogany. That's a lot of work and glue. I suppose clinker ply would be an option, though might look a little weird on a hull with extreme tumblehome.

It does look exceedingly good but in reality it should be about 3' longer with an inboard engine!!! Modern outboards look strange on classic runabouts!

Sam Glasscock <glasscocklanding@...> wrote:
Beautiful, yes. Twice the hours of Diablo, for you
maybe. Many more for us wood-butchers.
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:

>

http://hallman.org/bolger/RetroRunabout/RetroRunabout.png

>
> Maybe I am showing my age, but this 1950's era
> styling Bolger outboard
> runabout is simply gorgeous. 16 ft x 6'6", cold
> molded. With that
> dramatic sheerline and exaggerated tumblehome, she
> looks fast sitting
> still.
>
> Yet not that much more work than the similarly sized
> Diablo. Probably
> twice the hours and ten times the resale value.
>
> Only the cartoon was in MAIB, but a boat could be
> easily built to the
> shape of the lines given in the cartoon.
>
> The window molding would need a little custom chrome
> work, has anybody
> done that? I take it you cast in a mold using
> peuter (or bronze?) ,
> and then send it out to the chrome plating shop.
>

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Beautiful, yes. Twice the hours of Diablo, for you
maybe. Many more for us wood-butchers.
--- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:

>

http://hallman.org/bolger/RetroRunabout/RetroRunabout.png

>
> Maybe I am showing my age, but this 1950's era
> styling Bolger outboard
> runabout is simply gorgeous. 16 ft x 6'6", cold
> molded. With that
> dramatic sheerline and exaggerated tumblehome, she
> looks fast sitting
> still.
>
> Yet not that much more work than the similarly sized
> Diablo. Probably
> twice the hours and ten times the resale value.
>
> Only the cartoon was in MAIB, but a boat could be
> easily built to the
> shape of the lines given in the cartoon.
>
> The window molding would need a little custom chrome
> work, has anybody
> done that? I take it you cast in a mold using
> peuter (or bronze?) ,
> and then send it out to the chrome plating shop.
>

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> The window molding would need a little custom chrome work, has anybody
> done that? I take it you cast in a mold using peuter (or bronze?) ,
> and then send it out to the chrome plating shop.

Ask Chuck at Duckworks about that sort of thing.

http://hallman.org/bolger/RetroRunabout/RetroRunabout.png

Maybe I am showing my age, but this 1950's era styling Bolger outboard
runabout is simply gorgeous. 16 ft x 6'6", cold molded. With that
dramatic sheerline and exaggerated tumblehome, she looks fast sitting
still.

Yet not that much more work than the similarly sized Diablo. Probably
twice the hours and ten times the resale value.

Only the cartoon was in MAIB, but a boat could be easily built to the
shape of the lines given in the cartoon.

The window molding would need a little custom chrome work, has anybody
done that? I take it you cast in a mold using peuter (or bronze?) ,
and then send it out to the chrome plating shop.