Re: Solent lug rig question...
For the use I have in mind it's probably a case of,as
the Bishop said to the Actress,how quickly can you get
them down.The skipper of the one Dutch barge that I've
had experience of reckoned that it took him about 2
1/2 hours to get the mast and (gaff)rig up,although
when the barge was launched in 1910 the Dutch were
probably much more punctilious about opening bridges
than they perhaps are today so it would have been less
necessary - mind you the skipper is nearly as old as
the barge so all credit to him.The real quickie
operations
for mast lowering were on the Norfolk Wherries,where
they could lower the counterweighted mast and shoot
the bridge on the run,although it's a matter of
speculation how many didn't quite make it.(See the
intro in BWAOM).Looking at pictures of the Thames
barges it doesn't look as if the topyard was held on
by much,although presumeably that was only hoisted in
light airs.
The idea I had was for a tripod mast with 2 lightish
tubes at the front,forming a ladder as well as
stiffening the main tube.The yard would be attached to
bearers inside this tube through a slot(potentially
noisy??)but the mast could be stayed forward of the
yard so that the boom could be set nearly at right
angles if required.This is intended as a cruising rig
so I want good downwind performance.The mast should be
counterweighted,but I think that this could be made
removeable,so that on passage where it is not
necessary to drop the mast the mast could be locked in
place and the counterweight added to the ballast
cheers
Andy Airey
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the Bishop said to the Actress,how quickly can you get
them down.The skipper of the one Dutch barge that I've
had experience of reckoned that it took him about 2
1/2 hours to get the mast and (gaff)rig up,although
when the barge was launched in 1910 the Dutch were
probably much more punctilious about opening bridges
than they perhaps are today so it would have been less
necessary - mind you the skipper is nearly as old as
the barge so all credit to him.The real quickie
operations
for mast lowering were on the Norfolk Wherries,where
they could lower the counterweighted mast and shoot
the bridge on the run,although it's a matter of
speculation how many didn't quite make it.(See the
intro in BWAOM).Looking at pictures of the Thames
barges it doesn't look as if the topyard was held on
by much,although presumeably that was only hoisted in
light airs.
The idea I had was for a tripod mast with 2 lightish
tubes at the front,forming a ladder as well as
stiffening the main tube.The yard would be attached to
bearers inside this tube through a slot(potentially
noisy??)but the mast could be stayed forward of the
yard so that the boom could be set nearly at right
angles if required.This is intended as a cruising rig
so I want good downwind performance.The mast should be
counterweighted,but I think that this could be made
removeable,so that on passage where it is not
necessary to drop the mast the mast could be locked in
place and the counterweight added to the ballast
cheers
Andy Airey
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Thanks David
Will have to dig around in Classic Boat to see if
there is anything there about the rig.Unless you are
like me with a boat on the cheap end of the Hamble
(above the railway bridge) and so need a droppable rig
or a tabernacle I suppose that most of them would have
been converted to Bermudan when that rig became more
developed
Cheers
Andy Airey
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Will have to dig around in Classic Boat to see if
there is anything there about the rig.Unless you are
like me with a boat on the cheap end of the Hamble
(above the railway bridge) and so need a droppable rig
or a tabernacle I suppose that most of them would have
been converted to Bermudan when that rig became more
developed
Cheers
Andy Airey
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I think the limit is how much mass you are willing to muscle around.
The yard on the Birdwatcher is 15.5', essentially a 2x4 in the middle
with tapered ends. You are hoisting this along with the main sail. A
winch could certainly help with the weight. It could get exciting
when the sail is halfway hoisted in a breeze. It becomes a kite with
the string from the masthead. You will have the sheet and perhaps a
tack line on it, which will keep it from flying away. In the 145
square foot Birdwatcher size, it has been easy to keep the sail under
control. Hoisting or dousing quickly helps in keeping the sail under
control. If there is a winch on the halyard for the weight of the
sail and yard, it will slow down hoisting.
Doug
The yard on the Birdwatcher is 15.5', essentially a 2x4 in the middle
with tapered ends. You are hoisting this along with the main sail. A
winch could certainly help with the weight. It could get exciting
when the sail is halfway hoisted in a breeze. It becomes a kite with
the string from the masthead. You will have the sheet and perhaps a
tack line on it, which will keep it from flying away. In the 145
square foot Birdwatcher size, it has been easy to keep the sail under
control. Hoisting or dousing quickly helps in keeping the sail under
control. If there is a winch on the halyard for the weight of the
sail and yard, it will slow down hoisting.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> How big can you go with a Solent Lug.I've just come
> across this in 100 small boat rigs and on the face of
> it it seems ideal for a projected sailing barge design
> that I'm mulling over since it involves a relatively
> short mast which I would put in a tabernacle so that
> it could be easily dropped for bridges.I'm surprised
> that PCB didn't specify it - or something similar -
> for the Schuyt Houseboat,because that would have been
> in trouble at the first lock with the amount of mast
> overhang.Suggested mast height would be 25ft,which
> would give 40 or 45ft total with a similar yard
> cheers
> Andy Airey
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends
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>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, ANDREW AIREY <andyairey@...> wrote:
Andy -
I am not sure what the limitations are, but I can tell you that the
BWII specifies a 19'10" mast with a yard that extends the luff of the
main to 24'.
The biggest advantage I can see is that the rig can be set and struck
in a hurry. I honestly bet that if this takes more than 3-4 minutes I
would be doing something wrong, and that includes setting up the mast.
David Jost
Hi All
How big can you go with a Solent Lug.I've just come
across this in 100 small boat rigs and on the face of
it it seems ideal for a projected sailing barge design
that I'm mulling over since it involves a relatively
short mast which I would put in a tabernacle so that
it could be easily dropped for bridges.I'm surprised
that PCB didn't specify it - or something similar -
for the Schuyt Houseboat,because that would have been
in trouble at the first lock with the amount of mast
overhang.Suggested mast height would be 25ft,which
would give 40 or 45ft total with a similar yard
cheers
Andy Airey
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
How big can you go with a Solent Lug.I've just come
across this in 100 small boat rigs and on the face of
it it seems ideal for a projected sailing barge design
that I'm mulling over since it involves a relatively
short mast which I would put in a tabernacle so that
it could be easily dropped for bridges.I'm surprised
that PCB didn't specify it - or something similar -
for the Schuyt Houseboat,because that would have been
in trouble at the first lock with the amount of mast
overhang.Suggested mast height would be 25ft,which
would give 40 or 45ft total with a similar yard
cheers
Andy Airey
Send instant messages to your online friendshttp://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Krissy,
I would have left the conduit in, but the inner passage in the top
section is only 1/2 in diameter and it would have blocked the passage
of the halyard through the mast. The current plan is to install the
wiring through the bottom of the mast in a groove laid between the
layers, then up the upper core and out through a hole in the side of
the mast just below the halyard passage.
I have some concern regarding the draining of any water that might get
into the mast and am now planning to rabbet in a passage for both
wiring and drainage when doing the bottom core. running the wire up
and out the upper core just below the halyards will not be an issue,
and will do so during the building process.
The LED lights are a great idea.
Thanks
David
I would have left the conduit in, but the inner passage in the top
section is only 1/2 in diameter and it would have blocked the passage
of the halyard through the mast. The current plan is to install the
wiring through the bottom of the mast in a groove laid between the
layers, then up the upper core and out through a hole in the side of
the mast just below the halyard passage.
I have some concern regarding the draining of any water that might get
into the mast and am now planning to rabbet in a passage for both
wiring and drainage when doing the bottom core. running the wire up
and out the upper core just below the halyards will not be an issue,
and will do so during the building process.
The LED lights are a great idea.
Thanks
David
I would leave the Conduit in and use it for a wireway
for a mast light for when you get caught out after
dark.
And with the new LED lights they can be powered by one
of the little jump starters.
Blessings Krissie
--- dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:
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Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
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for a mast light for when you get caught out after
dark.
And with the new LED lights they can be powered by one
of the little jump starters.
Blessings Krissie
--- dnjost <davidjost@...> wrote:
> Thanks Doug -____________________________________________________________________________________
>
> That makes sense. the weight of the yard must be
> enough for the sail
> to fall, that will also allow for the yard to be
> snugged up against
> the mast. Oh well, the conduit will need to come
> out.
>
>
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I rounded off the edges of the hole through the mast substantially in
all directions, but especially downward. Remember that while sailing,
the yard will want to pull the halyard against the side of the hole.
I did build a box spar with staves as specified, in Douglas fir. My
plug differed a bit from the plan. I made up a plug of several thin
layers of fir. Each succeeding layer that was glued on the core was a
bit longer than the one inside. This way I got the gradual increase
in stiffness that PCB was looking for with the tapered cuts. It
looked a bit unreliable to me to get the ends of the plug as designed
glued to the outer staves. Mine was a bit stiffer. I put some small
foam plugs inside the wood plug to hold the thinner parts against the
outer staves as I was gluing it up. I made this plug in one length,
then cut it in two to make the upper and lower pieces.
Doug
all directions, but especially downward. Remember that while sailing,
the yard will want to pull the halyard against the side of the hole.
I did build a box spar with staves as specified, in Douglas fir. My
plug differed a bit from the plan. I made up a plug of several thin
layers of fir. Each succeeding layer that was glued on the core was a
bit longer than the one inside. This way I got the gradual increase
in stiffness that PCB was looking for with the tapered cuts. It
looked a bit unreliable to me to get the ends of the plug as designed
glued to the outer staves. Mine was a bit stiffer. I put some small
foam plugs inside the wood plug to hold the thinner parts against the
outer staves as I was gluing it up. I made this plug in one length,
then cut it in two to make the upper and lower pieces.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> Doug -
>
> That makes a lot of sense as it looks as if the weight of the yard will
> be sufficient to drop the sail. I imagine that there will be some
> chafing on the halyard from passing through the holes, but it is easily
> replaceable.
>
> Did you build the main mast as specified...box spar with an inner box
> up top, and solid inner core below?
>
> David Jost
>
Doug -
That makes a lot of sense as it looks as if the weight of the yard will
be sufficient to drop the sail. I imagine that there will be some
chafing on the halyard from passing through the holes, but it is easily
replaceable.
Did you build the main mast as specified...box spar with an inner box
up top, and solid inner core below?
David Jost
That makes a lot of sense as it looks as if the weight of the yard will
be sufficient to drop the sail. I imagine that there will be some
chafing on the halyard from passing through the holes, but it is easily
replaceable.
Did you build the main mast as specified...box spar with an inner box
up top, and solid inner core below?
David Jost
In my BW with Solent lug, I used a dumb sheeve (i.e., a smooth hole in
the top of the mast). I believe that is what the plans called for. I
think the hoisting effort is reasonable. I would be wary of chafe if
the halyard went through a block. It would make quite a mess if it
let go since the only other attachment of the main to mast is the
downhaul. There is no extra length on the mast. The sail just clears
the top of the coaming, so do not mount a block too low.
Doug
the top of the mast). I believe that is what the plans called for. I
think the hoisting effort is reasonable. I would be wary of chafe if
the halyard went through a block. It would make quite a mess if it
let go since the only other attachment of the main to mast is the
downhaul. There is no extra length on the mast. The sail just clears
the top of the coaming, so do not mount a block too low.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> Dear group,
>
> Upon further study of the plans for the Birdwatcher II rig and assuring
> for mast reinforcement at the critical points, I do not see any
> reference on the plans or on the building sequence to a "main halyard"
> or to a block at the top of the mast.
>
> David JostTrust the plans. PCB usually gets it right.
Builder 'improvements' often have unintended consequences.
If the plans are unclear, a fax to PB&F should clear it up.
Thank Derek,
I bit the bullet and ran a length of tubing inside the inner/upper box
for running cable later. That limits my options to blocks or sheaves
on the face of the spar. If someone has a picture or drawing it would
be appreciated. I agreed that losing the halyard inside and then
fishing it through again would be a pain in the neck.
David Jost
I bit the bullet and ran a length of tubing inside the inner/upper box
for running cable later. That limits my options to blocks or sheaves
on the face of the spar. If someone has a picture or drawing it would
be appreciated. I agreed that losing the halyard inside and then
fishing it through again would be a pain in the neck.
David Jost
Hi David
103 rigs on Solent lug describes a masthead sheave. On the little one I
built I used a dumb sheave, but BW is surely big enough for an actual sheave
to be worthwhile. Bolger describes the yard snugging against the sheave - I
think a block would prove unwieldy.
The halyard is indicated running down the fore face of the mast. I'd go that
way in your place - the inevitable eventual requirement to fish a halyard
after letting go an end would be enough, even if I were not inclined to use
the hollow spar as a cable conduit for running lights. A run of pvc conduit
inside the box makes for a smooth cable feed, should repairs prove
necessary.
cheers
Derek
103 rigs on Solent lug describes a masthead sheave. On the little one I
built I used a dumb sheave, but BW is surely big enough for an actual sheave
to be worthwhile. Bolger describes the yard snugging against the sheave - I
think a block would prove unwieldy.
The halyard is indicated running down the fore face of the mast. I'd go that
way in your place - the inevitable eventual requirement to fish a halyard
after letting go an end would be enough, even if I were not inclined to use
the hollow spar as a cable conduit for running lights. A run of pvc conduit
inside the box makes for a smooth cable feed, should repairs prove
necessary.
cheers
Derek
Dear group,
Upon further study of the plans for the Birdwatcher II rig and assuring
for mast reinforcement at the critical points, I do not see any
reference on the plans or on the building sequence to a "main halyard"
or to a block at the top of the mast.
While waiting for my local library to send along a copy of 100 small
boat rigs, I wondered if any members of this group had any insight past
my inclination to install an internal halyard as this spar has plenty
of room inside for a line to pass. Option B is to hang the block on
the tapered spar just above the jib halyard which is shown hung from a
strop.
Reefing is pretty straightforward, lower the main, move the halyard
higher on the yard, and reposition the boom to the grommet on the clew
at the reef point.
David Jost
"sitting in the moaning chair abaft the beer and bait fridge"
Upon further study of the plans for the Birdwatcher II rig and assuring
for mast reinforcement at the critical points, I do not see any
reference on the plans or on the building sequence to a "main halyard"
or to a block at the top of the mast.
While waiting for my local library to send along a copy of 100 small
boat rigs, I wondered if any members of this group had any insight past
my inclination to install an internal halyard as this spar has plenty
of room inside for a line to pass. Option B is to hang the block on
the tapered spar just above the jib halyard which is shown hung from a
strop.
Reefing is pretty straightforward, lower the main, move the halyard
higher on the yard, and reposition the boom to the grommet on the clew
at the reef point.
David Jost
"sitting in the moaning chair abaft the beer and bait fridge"