Re: Imaginary Rig 58
Bob,
that's a good looker!
Some history of the Mediterranean lateen here may be of interest if
not seen before
http://www.boatsyachtsmarinas.com/history/html/lateen_sail.html
They also show some great pics of a lateen regatta at St Tropez
(that might warm you up)
http://www.boatsyachtsmarinas.com/Events/html/lateen_regatta.html
Take a look at the "immaculate" coming about by one boat with just
two crew handling the yard heel. Apart from them and the helmsperson
the rest are probably just along for the ride ;-)
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "lakepepinmollyblue" <barryhill@...>
wrote:
that's a good looker!
Some history of the Mediterranean lateen here may be of interest if
not seen before
http://www.boatsyachtsmarinas.com/history/html/lateen_sail.html
They also show some great pics of a lateen regatta at St Tropez
(that might warm you up)
http://www.boatsyachtsmarinas.com/Events/html/lateen_regatta.html
Take a look at the "immaculate" coming about by one boat with just
two crew handling the yard heel. Apart from them and the helmsperson
the rest are probably just along for the ride ;-)
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "lakepepinmollyblue" <barryhill@...>
wrote:
> Here's my attempt.
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/63315352@N00/449393162/
> Bob
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
resources have coincided with imagination. Made a few steps forward
while the Teal awaits warm and epoxy.
With some time I tackled Freeship which I had downloaded to see your
work. Exploring your drawings and finding your tip for Bolger style
hulls on the Freeship Yahoo group helped a lot. Here's my attempt.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63315352@N00/449393162/
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/63315352@N00/449393162/>
wooden gaff with rope groove ala Shorty Pen's Duckwork article. Menards
provided a very nice 18' 2x4 with enough left for Teal bottom rubstrip.
about 4 1/2'. Bolger does say (100 Rigs) 10 degrees from mast and (how I
read it) let downwind fend for itself or mess with outrigger. Managed to
get sides to straight cut panels so would build as Windsprint with
addition of transom. Transom also opens options for sheeting sprit
boom.
Thanks for inspiration and help. Send any ideas and throw in a little
West Coast warm!
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>The Midwest lakes are trying to freeze again! Happily, though, time and
> > Like mid-summer Midwest lakes. Bruce, you've fired my imagination
resources have coincided with imagination. Made a few steps forward
while the Teal awaits warm and epoxy.
> I am sure you can tinker around and do it.<http://hallman.org/bolger/Rig58/rig58.fbm>
>
> Here is freeship fbm file of the hull I doodled.
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/Rig58/rig58.fbm
With some time I tackled Freeship which I had downloaded to see your
work. Exploring your drawings and finding your tip for Bolger style
hulls on the Freeship Yahoo group helped a lot. Here's my attempt.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63315352@N00/449393162/
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/63315352@N00/449393162/>
>Folbot has sectional aluminum boom and gaff but gaff is longer. Made
> Be aware that the Bolger rig uses the boomless, long gaff,
> Mediterranean style lateen rig, which I believe is different than the
> Folbot style which has both a boom and a shorter gaff.
>
wooden gaff with rope groove ala Shorty Pen's Duckwork article. Menards
provided a very nice 18' 2x4 with enough left for Teal bottom rubstrip.
> I don't know which Payson hull would be best, according to myStarted drawing looking at Windsprint and Light Scooner. Beam still only
> figuring, you need a pretty wide beam to get the correct sheeting
> angle for the boomless lateen.
about 4 1/2'. Bolger does say (100 Rigs) 10 degrees from mast and (how I
read it) let downwind fend for itself or mess with outrigger. Managed to
get sides to straight cut panels so would build as Windsprint with
addition of transom. Transom also opens options for sheeting sprit
boom.
Thanks for inspiration and help. Send any ideas and throw in a little
West Coast warm!
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gilberj55" <gilberj55@...> wrote:
Folkard (1906 p431) has that rig down as "Bugala", or
alternatively "Bugla".
BTW, I was just flicking through the illustrations, and the closest to
Rig #58 shown is of a Portugese cahique about 30' LOA. I say close, for
though it is ketch latine rigged on identical fore and main, it has a
smaller *bermudan* rigged mizzen of similar proportions on about a 16'
yard set in the stern to serve as mast. Also, Folkard says they're
fine, fast sailing. The main and fore yards, about 30', are of bamboo,
and so light and stiff.
Graeme
> The photo is posted in the photo section of this group.Nice photo, thanks for posting.
Folkard (1906 p431) has that rig down as "Bugala", or
alternatively "Bugla".
BTW, I was just flicking through the illustrations, and the closest to
Rig #58 shown is of a Portugese cahique about 30' LOA. I say close, for
though it is ketch latine rigged on identical fore and main, it has a
smaller *bermudan* rigged mizzen of similar proportions on about a 16'
yard set in the stern to serve as mast. Also, Folkard says they're
fine, fast sailing. The main and fore yards, about 30', are of bamboo,
and so light and stiff.
Graeme
The photo is posted in the photo section of this group. Though I am
familiar with Zebecs I am not sure of a specific description of the
rig as zebec. In the old days descriptions of vessels were less
centred around a specific sail plan and more on a type. A Cat Yawl
was a yawl boat, but not normally a yawl as we know it today, usually
a ketch without a normal headsail, A Sloop was usually a small ship,
A cutter may be square rigged and fore and aft one one mast, or have
two masts or three and be what we might call a schooner or a ketch,
possibly even as a lugger, usually used as a fast transport for mail
and dispatches, and/or as revenue cutters. The earliest form of USCG
used mostly schooners but they are referred to as cutters, which
remains in use today. A cutter was also one of the boats carried on a
Man'O'War.
I'd call these boats a lateen ketch, adding they are lateen on both
masts.
JG
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
familiar with Zebecs I am not sure of a specific description of the
rig as zebec. In the old days descriptions of vessels were less
centred around a specific sail plan and more on a type. A Cat Yawl
was a yawl boat, but not normally a yawl as we know it today, usually
a ketch without a normal headsail, A Sloop was usually a small ship,
A cutter may be square rigged and fore and aft one one mast, or have
two masts or three and be what we might call a schooner or a ketch,
possibly even as a lugger, usually used as a fast transport for mail
and dispatches, and/or as revenue cutters. The earliest form of USCG
used mostly schooners but they are referred to as cutters, which
remains in use today. A cutter was also one of the boats carried on a
Man'O'War.
I'd call these boats a lateen ketch, adding they are lateen on both
masts.
JG
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>UAE.
> It'd be good to see them JG, whether or not they're kind of Xebec
> rigged. Are they Xebec rigged?
>
> Graeme
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gilberj55" <gilberj55@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'll try to post a photo of a couple of racing boats out in the
> > These are a popular local type....I've seen them several time ofAbu
> > Dhabi, alway from a distance and often looking quite fast.
> >
> > JG
>
It'd be good to see them JG, whether or not they're kind of Xebec
rigged. Are they Xebec rigged?
Graeme
rigged. Are they Xebec rigged?
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "gilberj55" <gilberj55@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'll try to post a photo of a couple of racing boats out in the UAE.
> These are a popular local type....I've seen them several time of Abu
> Dhabi, alway from a distance and often looking quite fast.
>
> JG
Hi,
I'll try to post a photo of a couple of racing boats out in the UAE.
These are a popular local type....I've seen them several time of Abu
Dhabi, alway from a distance and often looking quite fast.
JG
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
I'll try to post a photo of a couple of racing boats out in the UAE.
These are a popular local type....I've seen them several time of Abu
Dhabi, alway from a distance and often looking quite fast.
JG
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>more
> There may be no boat built with this actual rig, but PCB would know
> of a few that are really quite similar in concept.
>
> The mainsail may not have been a sprit leg o' mutton. It may have
> been a lateen too, but I suspect this Roman-through-Arabic rig is
> too obvious for PCB. The mainmast rig giving him the idea for a
> Northern European aft sail may have actually been the square sail.a
>
> The ones he may know of might have derived from some rubbing of
> shoulders as in this 17th century painting by Abraham Willaerts of
> French galley and Dutch men-of-war off a port:gallies
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Abraham_Willaerts%
> 2C_Galley_and_men_of_war.jpeg
>
> and overlapping the final period of the classic and medieval
> like the "Real":larger
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_%28galley%29
>
> Replica "La Real", The Royal Galley, in Barcelona is 60 m long and
> 6.2 m wide, has a draught of 2.1 m, weighs 239 tons empty, was
> propelled by a total of 290 rowers, and carried about 400 crew and
> fighting soldiers at Lepanto. She was, however, substantially
> than the typical galleys of her time:BWAOM
>
> http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
> idApartado=104&idVisita=galera%20reial&num=1
>
>
> Recall what PCB offers about his historical hero, Roger de Lauria;
> Mediterranean pirates; Don John of Austria victorious at Lepanto (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Austria ); and etc etc in just
> two short paragraphs about the lateen rigged "Pirate Racer" in
> pp98-99.comes.
>
>
> Torchlight crimson on the copper kettle-drums,
> Then the tuckets, then the trumpets, then the cannon,and he
> Don John laughing in the brave beard curled,fore,
> Spurning of his stirrups like the thrones of all the world.
> Holding his head up for a flag of all the free.
> Love-light of Spain - hurrah!
> Death-light of Africa!
> Don John of Austria
> Is riding to the sea.
>
>
>
> And he finds his God forgotten, and he seeks no more a sign -
> (But Don John of Austria has burst the battle-line!)
> Don John pounding from the slaughter-painted poop,
> Purpling all the ocean like a bloody pirate's sloop,
> Scarlet running over on the silvers and the golds,
> Breaking of the hatches up and bursting of the holds,
> Thronging of the thousands up that labour under sea
> White for bliss and blind for sun and stunned for liberty.
> Vivat Hispania!
> Domino Gloria!
> Don John of Austria
> Has set his people free!
>
> (Extracts from "Lepanto" by Gilbert Keith Chesterton, - beggin'
> pardons all round) (The naval battle was perhaps historically
> the most decisive since Actium a very long time before in 31BC.
> It seems to me that one outcome Chesterton is particularly happy
> to see is the freeing of the (Christian) galley slaves. Another
> libertarian - with PCB approval?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lepanto_(1571)
>
>
> Recently, there was an article about the Xebec (Chebec) lateen
> square aft, rig at Gavin Atkin's blogand
> http://intheboatshed.net/?p=609 There's a number of interesting
> further links to follow up from there on the history of this C17thhttp://encyclopedia.jrank.org/LAP_LEO/LAURIA_LURIA_or_LURIA_ROGER_DE_
> ship rig and a recent design adaptation of it. [Is that arrangement
> or the later West Med derivation reversed? Jim from Zanzibar is in
> the right place (Spain) to know. Not a prob anyway for PCB!
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xebec ]
>
> Maybe imaginatve thinking like this is why PCB's hero (also
> Catalonia raised like the Don) the "Admiral of Aragon" escaped his
> temporal program, and was never defeated.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Les_Formigues
>
>
> .htmlvariety
>
> http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Roger_De_Lauria
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_of_Lauria
>
>
> IIRC I've read in a few places that the leg-of-mutton
> rig derived from the stepping of the lateen yard to serve as mast.
>
> Chappele in ASSC, pp 12-22, notes that in passing to the mid-1700's
> the pinnaces were the forerunners of the galley-frigates and these
> were occaisionally shown lateen rigged. These were about, as was
> the "two masted boat" with the shoulder-of-mutton shallop rig, and
> the pinnace's sister the barge. The barges apparently used a
> of sail: leg of mutton, sprit sail, and lateen. I don't think it iswith
> too far fetched to think that a boat may have been mixed rigged
> at least occaisionally a l-o-m sail aft and a lateen fore sail.l-
>
> I'm sure PCB would know of any surviving record of this rig should
> such exist, so apparently it doesn't. Adding the sprit boom to the
> o-m would Bolgerise the Phantom Rig.http://www.en.mhcat.net/oferta_museal/exposici_permanent/a_la_perif_r
>
> Graeme
>
> ---------------------
> Pirates and Corsairs
>
> ia_de_l_imperi/bandolers_i_corsaris/corsaris_i_pirateshttp://www.en.mhcat.net/oferta_museal/exposici_permanent/a_la_perif_r
>
> http://www.en.mhcat.net/var/mhc/storage/original/image/phpQku0wr.jpg
>
> http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
> idApartado=142&idprensanota=8
>
> Battle of Lepanto
>
> ia_de_l_imperi/bandolers_i_corsaris/la_batalla_de_lepant58?
>
> Cervantes
> http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
> idApartado=142&idprensanota=7
>
> Model
> http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
> idApartado=141&idPublicacionTipo=11&idPublicacion=57
>
> Guides
> http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
> idApartado=141&idPublicacionTipo=3&idPublicacion=9
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
> >
> > http://hallman.org/bolger/Rig58/Rig58.png
> >
> > Anybody else fascinated with Bolger's 'imaginary' sailing rig
> Hedesigned,
> > wrote that he knows of no boat built with this rig, (nor
> Istereotypical
> > think). I took the Rig 58 sailplan and applied it to
> > Bolger box hull. The Ketch rig, combining a leg of muttonmainsail
> > with a lateen fore sail seems entirely workable, low stress and
> > powerful. Indeed superior for a tented camp cruiser. Someone
> should
> > whip out a prototype.
> >
>
There may be no boat built with this actual rig, but PCB would know
of a few that are really quite similar in concept.
The mainsail may not have been a sprit leg o' mutton. It may have
been a lateen too, but I suspect this Roman-through-Arabic rig is
too obvious for PCB. The mainmast rig giving him the idea for a more
Northern European aft sail may have actually been the square sail.
The ones he may know of might have derived from some rubbing of
shoulders as in this 17th century painting by Abraham Willaerts of a
French galley and Dutch men-of-war off a port:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Abraham_Willaerts%
2C_Galley_and_men_of_war.jpeg
and overlapping the final period of the classic and medieval gallies
like the "Real":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_%28galley%29
Replica "La Real", The Royal Galley, in Barcelona is 60 m long and
6.2 m wide, has a draught of 2.1 m, weighs 239 tons empty, was
propelled by a total of 290 rowers, and carried about 400 crew and
fighting soldiers at Lepanto. She was, however, substantially larger
than the typical galleys of her time:
http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
idApartado=104&idVisita=galera%20reial&num=1
Recall what PCB offers about his historical hero, Roger de Lauria;
Mediterranean pirates; Don John of Austria victorious at Lepanto (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Austria ); and etc etc in just
two short paragraphs about the lateen rigged "Pirate Racer" in BWAOM
pp98-99.
Torchlight crimson on the copper kettle-drums,
Then the tuckets, then the trumpets, then the cannon,and he comes.
Don John laughing in the brave beard curled,
Spurning of his stirrups like the thrones of all the world.
Holding his head up for a flag of all the free.
Love-light of Spain - hurrah!
Death-light of Africa!
Don John of Austria
Is riding to the sea.
And he finds his God forgotten, and he seeks no more a sign -
(But Don John of Austria has burst the battle-line!)
Don John pounding from the slaughter-painted poop,
Purpling all the ocean like a bloody pirate's sloop,
Scarlet running over on the silvers and the golds,
Breaking of the hatches up and bursting of the holds,
Thronging of the thousands up that labour under sea
White for bliss and blind for sun and stunned for liberty.
Vivat Hispania!
Domino Gloria!
Don John of Austria
Has set his people free!
(Extracts from "Lepanto" by Gilbert Keith Chesterton, - beggin'
pardons all round) (The naval battle was perhaps historically
the most decisive since Actium a very long time before in 31BC.
It seems to me that one outcome Chesterton is particularly happy
to see is the freeing of the (Christian) galley slaves. Another
libertarian - with PCB approval?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lepanto_(1571)
Recently, there was an article about the Xebec (Chebec) lateen fore,
square aft, rig at Gavin Atkin's blog
http://intheboatshed.net/?p=609 There's a number of interesting and
further links to follow up from there on the history of this C17th
ship rig and a recent design adaptation of it. [Is that arrangement
or the later West Med derivation reversed? Jim from Zanzibar is in
the right place (Spain) to know. Not a prob anyway for PCB!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xebec ]
Maybe imaginatve thinking like this is why PCB's hero (also
Catalonia raised like the Don) the "Admiral of Aragon" escaped his
temporal program, and was never defeated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Les_Formigues
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/LAP_LEO/LAURIA_LURIA_or_LURIA_ROGER_DE_
.html
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Roger_De_Lauria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_of_Lauria
IIRC I've read in a few places that the leg-of-mutton
rig derived from the stepping of the lateen yard to serve as mast.
Chappele in ASSC, pp 12-22, notes that in passing to the mid-1700's
the pinnaces were the forerunners of the galley-frigates and these
were occaisionally shown lateen rigged. These were about, as was
the "two masted boat" with the shoulder-of-mutton shallop rig, and
the pinnace's sister the barge. The barges apparently used a variety
of sail: leg of mutton, sprit sail, and lateen. I don't think it is
too far fetched to think that a boat may have been mixed rigged with
at least occaisionally a l-o-m sail aft and a lateen fore sail.
I'm sure PCB would know of any surviving record of this rig should
such exist, so apparently it doesn't. Adding the sprit boom to the l-
o-m would Bolgerise the Phantom Rig.
Graeme
---------------------
Pirates and Corsairs
http://www.en.mhcat.net/oferta_museal/exposici_permanent/a_la_perif_r
ia_de_l_imperi/bandolers_i_corsaris/corsaris_i_pirates
http://www.en.mhcat.net/var/mhc/storage/original/image/phpQku0wr.jpg
http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
idApartado=142&idprensanota=8
Battle of Lepanto
http://www.en.mhcat.net/oferta_museal/exposici_permanent/a_la_perif_r
ia_de_l_imperi/bandolers_i_corsaris/la_batalla_de_lepant
Cervantes
http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
idApartado=142&idprensanota=7
Model
http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
idApartado=141&idPublicacionTipo=11&idPublicacion=57
Guides
http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
idApartado=141&idPublicacionTipo=3&idPublicacion=9
of a few that are really quite similar in concept.
The mainsail may not have been a sprit leg o' mutton. It may have
been a lateen too, but I suspect this Roman-through-Arabic rig is
too obvious for PCB. The mainmast rig giving him the idea for a more
Northern European aft sail may have actually been the square sail.
The ones he may know of might have derived from some rubbing of
shoulders as in this 17th century painting by Abraham Willaerts of a
French galley and Dutch men-of-war off a port:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Abraham_Willaerts%
2C_Galley_and_men_of_war.jpeg
and overlapping the final period of the classic and medieval gallies
like the "Real":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_%28galley%29
Replica "La Real", The Royal Galley, in Barcelona is 60 m long and
6.2 m wide, has a draught of 2.1 m, weighs 239 tons empty, was
propelled by a total of 290 rowers, and carried about 400 crew and
fighting soldiers at Lepanto. She was, however, substantially larger
than the typical galleys of her time:
http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
idApartado=104&idVisita=galera%20reial&num=1
Recall what PCB offers about his historical hero, Roger de Lauria;
Mediterranean pirates; Don John of Austria victorious at Lepanto (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Austria ); and etc etc in just
two short paragraphs about the lateen rigged "Pirate Racer" in BWAOM
pp98-99.
Torchlight crimson on the copper kettle-drums,
Then the tuckets, then the trumpets, then the cannon,and he comes.
Don John laughing in the brave beard curled,
Spurning of his stirrups like the thrones of all the world.
Holding his head up for a flag of all the free.
Love-light of Spain - hurrah!
Death-light of Africa!
Don John of Austria
Is riding to the sea.
And he finds his God forgotten, and he seeks no more a sign -
(But Don John of Austria has burst the battle-line!)
Don John pounding from the slaughter-painted poop,
Purpling all the ocean like a bloody pirate's sloop,
Scarlet running over on the silvers and the golds,
Breaking of the hatches up and bursting of the holds,
Thronging of the thousands up that labour under sea
White for bliss and blind for sun and stunned for liberty.
Vivat Hispania!
Domino Gloria!
Don John of Austria
Has set his people free!
(Extracts from "Lepanto" by Gilbert Keith Chesterton, - beggin'
pardons all round) (The naval battle was perhaps historically
the most decisive since Actium a very long time before in 31BC.
It seems to me that one outcome Chesterton is particularly happy
to see is the freeing of the (Christian) galley slaves. Another
libertarian - with PCB approval?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lepanto_(1571)
Recently, there was an article about the Xebec (Chebec) lateen fore,
square aft, rig at Gavin Atkin's blog
http://intheboatshed.net/?p=609 There's a number of interesting and
further links to follow up from there on the history of this C17th
ship rig and a recent design adaptation of it. [Is that arrangement
or the later West Med derivation reversed? Jim from Zanzibar is in
the right place (Spain) to know. Not a prob anyway for PCB!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xebec ]
Maybe imaginatve thinking like this is why PCB's hero (also
Catalonia raised like the Don) the "Admiral of Aragon" escaped his
temporal program, and was never defeated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Les_Formigues
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/LAP_LEO/LAURIA_LURIA_or_LURIA_ROGER_DE_
.html
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Roger_De_Lauria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_of_Lauria
IIRC I've read in a few places that the leg-of-mutton
rig derived from the stepping of the lateen yard to serve as mast.
Chappele in ASSC, pp 12-22, notes that in passing to the mid-1700's
the pinnaces were the forerunners of the galley-frigates and these
were occaisionally shown lateen rigged. These were about, as was
the "two masted boat" with the shoulder-of-mutton shallop rig, and
the pinnace's sister the barge. The barges apparently used a variety
of sail: leg of mutton, sprit sail, and lateen. I don't think it is
too far fetched to think that a boat may have been mixed rigged with
at least occaisionally a l-o-m sail aft and a lateen fore sail.
I'm sure PCB would know of any surviving record of this rig should
such exist, so apparently it doesn't. Adding the sprit boom to the l-
o-m would Bolgerise the Phantom Rig.
Graeme
---------------------
Pirates and Corsairs
http://www.en.mhcat.net/oferta_museal/exposici_permanent/a_la_perif_r
ia_de_l_imperi/bandolers_i_corsaris/corsaris_i_pirates
http://www.en.mhcat.net/var/mhc/storage/original/image/phpQku0wr.jpg
http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
idApartado=142&idprensanota=8
Battle of Lepanto
http://www.en.mhcat.net/oferta_museal/exposici_permanent/a_la_perif_r
ia_de_l_imperi/bandolers_i_corsaris/la_batalla_de_lepant
Cervantes
http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
idApartado=142&idprensanota=7
Model
http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
idApartado=141&idPublicacionTipo=11&idPublicacion=57
Guides
http://www.museumaritimbarcelona.com/default.asp?
idApartado=141&idPublicacionTipo=3&idPublicacion=9
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> http://hallman.org/bolger/Rig58/Rig58.png
>
> Anybody else fascinated with Bolger's 'imaginary' sailing rig 58?
He
> wrote that he knows of no boat built with this rig, (nor designed,
I
> think). I took the Rig 58 sailplan and applied it to stereotypical
> Bolger box hull. The Ketch rig, combining a leg of mutton mainsail
> with a lateen fore sail seems entirely workable, low stress and
> powerful. Indeed superior for a tented camp cruiser. Someone
should
> whip out a prototype.
>
Having sailed with a lateen rig a bit I have to say I like it.
Becaust the yard is slanted and swings around the mast, it tends to
spill excess wind a little earlier than a comparable modern rig. This
mean the yard does not need to be as strong as it might otherwise
need to be. Methods of reefing/reducing sail are a little more
complicated than we are generally used to, so it may not be the best
choice for a small boat on an extended open water passage. For day
sailing and fine weather cruising, I think it might be hard to beat.
The cant of the yard can be adjusted for different winds and
different courses. With a loose foot(no boom) you need about the same
consideration in your sheeting arangements as for a modern Genoa.
Mine was a boomed sail on a small double ended flat bottom boat, sort
of a decked canoe. The yard/sail was hoisted bodily to hook a ring
onto a screw set vertically in the top of the short mast. I had a
Brailing line which allowed me to fold up the sail completly in
seconds during a squall, which I did a few times. Later I also
installed reef points so after folding up the sail I could drop the
yard, to tie in a reef ~50% and reset the sail and continue. I made
several short cruises with this boat. Now almost 40 years ago it
remains a fine memory.
JG
Becaust the yard is slanted and swings around the mast, it tends to
spill excess wind a little earlier than a comparable modern rig. This
mean the yard does not need to be as strong as it might otherwise
need to be. Methods of reefing/reducing sail are a little more
complicated than we are generally used to, so it may not be the best
choice for a small boat on an extended open water passage. For day
sailing and fine weather cruising, I think it might be hard to beat.
The cant of the yard can be adjusted for different winds and
different courses. With a loose foot(no boom) you need about the same
consideration in your sheeting arangements as for a modern Genoa.
Mine was a boomed sail on a small double ended flat bottom boat, sort
of a decked canoe. The yard/sail was hoisted bodily to hook a ring
onto a screw set vertically in the top of the short mast. I had a
Brailing line which allowed me to fold up the sail completly in
seconds during a squall, which I did a few times. Later I also
installed reef points so after folding up the sail I could drop the
yard, to tie in a reef ~50% and reset the sail and continue. I made
several short cruises with this boat. Now almost 40 years ago it
remains a fine memory.
JG
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Crockett <pcrockett@...> wrote:
>
> I would think that the stress on the yard (2/3 beyond the mast)
would be
> pretty intense -- requiring a cross-section basically as big as a
mast
> as tall as the part of the yard extending above the attachment to
the
> mast. And this yard would have some freedom to swing out over the
side
> of the boat. So you need to design in some massive stability
measure
> (big keel or very wide draft). Looks to me like a bermuda rig would
be
> simpler and give you a head-sail with the efficiency of the slot
for
> upwind sailing. With a tabernacle if mast height is a problem.
>
> Patrick
>
> Bruce Hallman wrote:
> >http://hallman.org/bolger/Rig58/Rig58.png
> >
> > Anybody else fascinated with Bolger's 'imaginary' sailing rig
58? He
> > wrote that he knows of no boat built with this rig, (nor
designed, I
> > think). I took the Rig 58 sailplan and applied it to
stereotypical
> > Bolger box hull. The Ketch rig, combining a leg of mutton
mainsail
> > with a lateen fore sail seems entirely workable, low stress and
> > powerful. Indeed superior for a tented camp cruiser. Someone
should
> > whip out a prototype.
>
> Looks to me like a bermuda rig would beThe bermuda rigs, by definition have wire, swages, turnbuckles, stays
> simpler and give you a head-sail with the efficiency of the slot for
> upwind sailing. With a tabernacle if mast height is a problem.
>
> Patrick
and spreaders which add stress, complexity and cost. These parts and
pieces are required to provide the high tension needed to keep the
luff of the jib from sagging. All in all, bermuda rigs are really
good at what they do, and were not possible until high tech materials
made withstanding the high tensions practical. Most of the other rigs
in 103 Sailing Rigs, like Rig 58, do not use high tech parts and
pieces like a bermuda rig, (costly, high stress, and can break), so
from this perspective a bermuda rig is not simpler.
Rig 58 provides a low tech way to get the benificial smoothing 'slot
effect' of a foresail, across a mainsail, like with a bermuda rigged
sloop.
And, yes, the thin yard of the lateen rig is at risk of breaking, but
the breaking of a lateen yard is rarely catastrophic. Contrast this
with the breaking of the stays on a bermuda rig, which is likely much
more dramatic.
I completely agree with both you and Krissie about including the
kids. One reason I'm building the Philsboat is because of my kids.
The tiny cockpit of my Venture (standard clone fiberglass sailboat
with cabin) is outright unsafe for children, or anything more than
one average size adult, and one small adult. In the Philsboat, the
kids won't be able to fall over into the water, the entire boat is
"inside" with a companionway that goes from the bow to the stern.
My references to size in the previous post is mostly about
overnighting. I'd rather have a boat now and use it than plan for
the ideal later. My philsboat will be great to take the kids out,
but not for us ALL to sleep in. When I get to know my local lake
better, possibly I'll be able to do a cruise and camp onshore.
Sailing (and building) is actually very new to me, I just started
last year. My local lake has 111 miles of shoreline. I must get
more of a comfort level with it and whet it has to offer.
Thanks for the posts, I must go off to work for a bit today!
Chris Curtis
kids. One reason I'm building the Philsboat is because of my kids.
The tiny cockpit of my Venture (standard clone fiberglass sailboat
with cabin) is outright unsafe for children, or anything more than
one average size adult, and one small adult. In the Philsboat, the
kids won't be able to fall over into the water, the entire boat is
"inside" with a companionway that goes from the bow to the stern.
My references to size in the previous post is mostly about
overnighting. I'd rather have a boat now and use it than plan for
the ideal later. My philsboat will be great to take the kids out,
but not for us ALL to sleep in. When I get to know my local lake
better, possibly I'll be able to do a cruise and camp onshore.
Sailing (and building) is actually very new to me, I just started
last year. My local lake has 111 miles of shoreline. I must get
more of a comfort level with it and whet it has to offer.
Thanks for the posts, I must go off to work for a bit today!
Chris Curtis
On Mar 9, 2007, at 5:37 PM, gilberj55 wrote:
> I cruised several times with my 3 boys in a 21 foot sailboat designed
> for two to sleep. I grew up cruising with my Dad and a sybling in a
> 20 footer. I cannot recommend highly enough the experience of sharing
> your passion with your kids. It may only be for a day or two to start
> with but its a gift they will always remember, go for it....
>
> JG
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis <ccurtis-keyword-
> sailboat.a927b9@...> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for your "thoughts" Krissie. When I think of owning
> (another)
> > powerboat,I think about the Microtrawler. Possibly I'll build one
> in
> > the next few years. If I was a wealthy man, I think I'd probably
> > spend most of my time in my barn working on boats. But alas, I
> have
> > to work (as most of us do!).
> >
> > On the Kid front, I'm a bit torn. I have taken my kids sailing,
> but
> > not camp cruising. My current sailboat is not big enough for 4
> > (pigmies possibly, it does have 4 berths!). My current boat
> building
> > project "Philsbooat" will have much more space inside, but still
> not
> > big enough for a family of 4 to camp. My next boat "caprice" at
> 26
> > feet, could support 4, but I'm not sure it would work for anything
> > more than an overnight if that. If I focused on building a boat
> big
> > enough for our entire family to be comfortable in, by the time I
> was
> > done, they would be teenagers, and have no interest in sailing
> with
> > me anyway. So, I think my kids will have to be OK with our
> camping
> > trips, and trips to the Oregon Star Party. Also, we live in the
> > woods, so it's a bit like camping anyway!
> >
> > I would think many would be in my boat (so to speak!)
> >
> > Thanks again for chiming up!
> >
> >
> > Chris Curtis
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mar 8, 2007, at 8:44 PM, Kristine Bennett wrote:
> >
> > > Chris, I have seen a Microtrawler up close and talked
> > > to the man that owned it. He loved it, but wished he
> > > had made it longer. He runs all over Lake Washington
> > > and lower Puget Sound in it.
> > >
> > > His list of complants was short 1. Flat of the
> > > sponsons drum a lot. 2. The head made easer to use
> > > when underway. 3. More room in the pilothouse for
> > > seating when you are running with guests aboard. He
> > > did say they were things you work around when you are
> > > out goofing off!
> > >
> > > He was planing on building one of the other Bolger
> > > boats that was bigger but I don't remember what one it
> > > was now. He liked going out on the boat for a weekend
> > > and spend 150 buck or less for the whole weekend.
> > >
> > > Seeing how you have children you may want to look at
> > > something a bit bigger so the whole family can go with
> > > you as well.
> > >
> > > Just my thoughts mind you. Seeing how I know the kind
> > > of hassles that can be had when you take two kids out
> > > on a small boat for a overnighter! I'll be honest I
> > > was ready to toss my partner's daughter over the side
> > > and not let her back in the boat!
> > >
> > > Blessings Krissie
> > >
> > > > >I have been meaning to ask you about
> > > > > the "Microtrawler". It would fit my needs (I
> > > > think) if I wanted to
> > > > > build a powerboat or own one again.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________________
> > > Get your own web address.
> > > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> > >http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
I would think that the stress on the yard (2/3 beyond the mast) would be
pretty intense -- requiring a cross-section basically as big as a mast
as tall as the part of the yard extending above the attachment to the
mast. And this yard would have some freedom to swing out over the side
of the boat. So you need to design in some massive stability measure
(big keel or very wide draft). Looks to me like a bermuda rig would be
simpler and give you a head-sail with the efficiency of the slot for
upwind sailing. With a tabernacle if mast height is a problem.
Patrick
Bruce Hallman wrote:
pretty intense -- requiring a cross-section basically as big as a mast
as tall as the part of the yard extending above the attachment to the
mast. And this yard would have some freedom to swing out over the side
of the boat. So you need to design in some massive stability measure
(big keel or very wide draft). Looks to me like a bermuda rig would be
simpler and give you a head-sail with the efficiency of the slot for
upwind sailing. With a tabernacle if mast height is a problem.
Patrick
Bruce Hallman wrote:
>http://hallman.org/bolger/Rig58/Rig58.png
>
> Anybody else fascinated with Bolger's 'imaginary' sailing rig 58? He
> wrote that he knows of no boat built with this rig, (nor designed, I
> think). I took the Rig 58 sailplan and applied it to stereotypical
> Bolger box hull. The Ketch rig, combining a leg of mutton mainsail
> with a lateen fore sail seems entirely workable, low stress and
> powerful. Indeed superior for a tented camp cruiser. Someone should
> whip out a prototype.
Yes spending time with the kids and sharing your
passions with them will last a life time.
Thanks to my Dad I have a love for flying and aircraft
and boating and building them. Yep even at 80 years
old we can sit and remember camping trips with the
Super Cub out to the San Juan Islands for a weekend or
boat trips out there and also working with him
building to fishing boats to fish in Alaska with.
In this hurried world of ours many forget it's the
little things the kids remember the most. So do
something with them that they will remember for a life
time.... Spend time with them!
Goddess Bless Krissie
--- gilberj55 <gilberj55@...> wrote:
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
passions with them will last a life time.
Thanks to my Dad I have a love for flying and aircraft
and boating and building them. Yep even at 80 years
old we can sit and remember camping trips with the
Super Cub out to the San Juan Islands for a weekend or
boat trips out there and also working with him
building to fishing boats to fish in Alaska with.
In this hurried world of ours many forget it's the
little things the kids remember the most. So do
something with them that they will remember for a life
time.... Spend time with them!
Goddess Bless Krissie
--- gilberj55 <gilberj55@...> wrote:
> I cruised several times with my 3 boys in a 21 foot____________________________________________________________________________________
> sailboat designed
> for two to sleep. I grew up cruising with my Dad and
> a sybling in a
> 20 footer. I cannot recommend highly enough the
> experience of sharing
> your passion with your kids. It may only be for a
> day or two to start
> with but its a gift they will always remember, go
> for it....
>
> JG
>
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
I cruised several times with my 3 boys in a 21 foot sailboat designed
for two to sleep. I grew up cruising with my Dad and a sybling in a
20 footer. I cannot recommend highly enough the experience of sharing
your passion with your kids. It may only be for a day or two to start
with but its a gift they will always remember, go for it....
JG
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis <ccurtis-keyword-
sailboat.a927b9@...> wrote:
for two to sleep. I grew up cruising with my Dad and a sybling in a
20 footer. I cannot recommend highly enough the experience of sharing
your passion with your kids. It may only be for a day or two to start
with but its a gift they will always remember, go for it....
JG
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis <ccurtis-keyword-
sailboat.a927b9@...> wrote:
>(another)
> Thanks for your "thoughts" Krissie. When I think of owning
> powerboat,I think about the Microtrawler. Possibly I'll build onein
> the next few years. If I was a wealthy man, I think I'd probablyhave
> spend most of my time in my barn working on boats. But alas, I
> to work (as most of us do!).but
>
> On the Kid front, I'm a bit torn. I have taken my kids sailing,
> not camp cruising. My current sailboat is not big enough for 4building
> (pigmies possibly, it does have 4 berths!). My current boat
> project "Philsbooat" will have much more space inside, but stillnot
> big enough for a family of 4 to camp. My next boat "caprice" at26
> feet, could support 4, but I'm not sure it would work for anythingbig
> more than an overnight if that. If I focused on building a boat
> enough for our entire family to be comfortable in, by the time Iwas
> done, they would be teenagers, and have no interest in sailingwith
> me anyway. So, I think my kids will have to be OK with ourcamping
> trips, and trips to the Oregon Star Party. Also, we live in the
> woods, so it's a bit like camping anyway!
>
> I would think many would be in my boat (so to speak!)
>
> Thanks again for chiming up!
>
>
> Chris Curtis
>
>
>
> On Mar 8, 2007, at 8:44 PM, Kristine Bennett wrote:
>
> > Chris, I have seen a Microtrawler up close and talked
> > to the man that owned it. He loved it, but wished he
> > had made it longer. He runs all over Lake Washington
> > and lower Puget Sound in it.
> >
> > His list of complants was short 1. Flat of the
> > sponsons drum a lot. 2. The head made easer to use
> > when underway. 3. More room in the pilothouse for
> > seating when you are running with guests aboard. He
> > did say they were things you work around when you are
> > out goofing off!
> >
> > He was planing on building one of the other Bolger
> > boats that was bigger but I don't remember what one it
> > was now. He liked going out on the boat for a weekend
> > and spend 150 buck or less for the whole weekend.
> >
> > Seeing how you have children you may want to look at
> > something a bit bigger so the whole family can go with
> > you as well.
> >
> > Just my thoughts mind you. Seeing how I know the kind
> > of hassles that can be had when you take two kids out
> > on a small boat for a overnighter! I'll be honest I
> > was ready to toss my partner's daughter over the side
> > and not let her back in the boat!
> >
> > Blessings Krissie
> >
> > > >I have been meaning to ask you about
> > > > the "Microtrawler". It would fit my needs (I
> > > think) if I wanted to
> > > > build a powerboat or own one again.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Get your own web address.
> > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> >http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
> >
> >
>
Using Google Images to find a series of felucca pictures will show
how they do it on the Nile. Their lateen sails use a boom and the
boats are rather beamy, with mostly steel hulls these days.
Howard
how they do it on the Nile. Their lateen sails use a boom and the
boats are rather beamy, with mostly steel hulls these days.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> > Like mid-summer Midwest lakes. Bruce, you've fired my
imagination
>
> I am sure you can tinker around and do it.
>
> Here is freeship fbm file of the hull I doodled.
>
>http://hallman.org/bolger/Rig58/rig58.fbm
>
> Be aware that the Bolger rig uses the boomless, long gaff,
> Mediterranean style lateen rig, which I believe is different than
the
> Folbot style which has both a boom and a shorter gaff.
>
> I don't know which Payson hull would be best, according to my
> figuring, you need a pretty wide beam to get the correct sheeting
> angle for the boomless lateen. Typical for all the cartoons in 103
> Boat rigs, he shows the sail plan elevation view only, I sorely
miss
> seeing a Bolger's plan view of the cartoons, to deduce the beam.
>
> Like mid-summer Midwest lakes. Bruce, you've fired my imaginationI am sure you can tinker around and do it.
Here is freeship fbm file of the hull I doodled.
http://hallman.org/bolger/Rig58/rig58.fbm
Be aware that the Bolger rig uses the boomless, long gaff,
Mediterranean style lateen rig, which I believe is different than the
Folbot style which has both a boom and a shorter gaff.
I don't know which Payson hull would be best, according to my
figuring, you need a pretty wide beam to get the correct sheeting
angle for the boomless lateen. Typical for all the cartoons in 103
Boat rigs, he shows the sail plan elevation view only, I sorely miss
seeing a Bolger's plan view of the cartoons, to deduce the beam.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
provoked me to wade through knee deep snow this morning to dig out of
a shed the Folbot lateen I've owned forever. About the same square
footage as the leg o' mutton for the Teal I'm building. 9' on the
foot. With two spars I'd have a small version of 58. Which hull?
Something from Payson to keep cost down.
>Like mid-summer Midwest lakes. Bruce, you've fired my imagination and
> But, in essence, the rig is ideal for a place with light winds,
> interspersed with short squalls.
provoked me to wade through knee deep snow this morning to dig out of
a shed the Folbot lateen I've owned forever. About the same square
footage as the leg o' mutton for the Teal I'm building. 9' on the
foot. With two spars I'd have a small version of 58. Which hull?
Something from Payson to keep cost down.
Thanks for your "thoughts" Krissie. When I think of owning (another)
powerboat,I think about the Microtrawler. Possibly I'll build one in
the next few years. If I was a wealthy man, I think I'd probably
spend most of my time in my barn working on boats. But alas, I have
to work (as most of us do!).
On the Kid front, I'm a bit torn. I have taken my kids sailing, but
not camp cruising. My current sailboat is not big enough for 4
(pigmies possibly, it does have 4 berths!). My current boat building
project "Philsbooat" will have much more space inside, but still not
big enough for a family of 4 to camp. My next boat "caprice" at 26
feet, could support 4, but I'm not sure it would work for anything
more than an overnight if that. If I focused on building a boat big
enough for our entire family to be comfortable in, by the time I was
done, they would be teenagers, and have no interest in sailing with
me anyway. So, I think my kids will have to be OK with our camping
trips, and trips to the Oregon Star Party. Also, we live in the
woods, so it's a bit like camping anyway!
I would think many would be in my boat (so to speak!)
Thanks again for chiming up!
Chris Curtis
powerboat,I think about the Microtrawler. Possibly I'll build one in
the next few years. If I was a wealthy man, I think I'd probably
spend most of my time in my barn working on boats. But alas, I have
to work (as most of us do!).
On the Kid front, I'm a bit torn. I have taken my kids sailing, but
not camp cruising. My current sailboat is not big enough for 4
(pigmies possibly, it does have 4 berths!). My current boat building
project "Philsbooat" will have much more space inside, but still not
big enough for a family of 4 to camp. My next boat "caprice" at 26
feet, could support 4, but I'm not sure it would work for anything
more than an overnight if that. If I focused on building a boat big
enough for our entire family to be comfortable in, by the time I was
done, they would be teenagers, and have no interest in sailing with
me anyway. So, I think my kids will have to be OK with our camping
trips, and trips to the Oregon Star Party. Also, we live in the
woods, so it's a bit like camping anyway!
I would think many would be in my boat (so to speak!)
Thanks again for chiming up!
Chris Curtis
On Mar 8, 2007, at 8:44 PM, Kristine Bennett wrote:
> Chris, I have seen a Microtrawler up close and talked
> to the man that owned it. He loved it, but wished he
> had made it longer. He runs all over Lake Washington
> and lower Puget Sound in it.
>
> His list of complants was short 1. Flat of the
> sponsons drum a lot. 2. The head made easer to use
> when underway. 3. More room in the pilothouse for
> seating when you are running with guests aboard. He
> did say they were things you work around when you are
> out goofing off!
>
> He was planing on building one of the other Bolger
> boats that was bigger but I don't remember what one it
> was now. He liked going out on the boat for a weekend
> and spend 150 buck or less for the whole weekend.
>
> Seeing how you have children you may want to look at
> something a bit bigger so the whole family can go with
> you as well.
>
> Just my thoughts mind you. Seeing how I know the kind
> of hassles that can be had when you take two kids out
> on a small boat for a overnighter! I'll be honest I
> was ready to toss my partner's daughter over the side
> and not let her back in the boat!
>
> Blessings Krissie
>
> > >I have been meaning to ask you about
> > > the "Microtrawler". It would fit my needs (I
> > think) if I wanted to
> > > build a powerboat or own one again.
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Get your own web address.
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
>
>
Chris, I have seen a Microtrawler up close and talked
to the man that owned it. He loved it, but wished he
had made it longer. He runs all over Lake Washington
and lower Puget Sound in it.
His list of complants was short 1. Flat of the
sponsons drum a lot. 2. The head made easer to use
when underway. 3. More room in the pilothouse for
seating when you are running with guests aboard. He
did say they were things you work around when you are
out goofing off!
He was planing on building one of the other Bolger
boats that was bigger but I don't remember what one it
was now. He liked going out on the boat for a weekend
and spend 150 buck or less for the whole weekend.
Seeing how you have children you may want to look at
something a bit bigger so the whole family can go with
you as well.
Just my thoughts mind you. Seeing how I know the kind
of hassles that can be had when you take two kids out
on a small boat for a overnighter! I'll be honest I
was ready to toss my partner's daughter over the side
and not let her back in the boat!
Blessings Krissie
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
to the man that owned it. He loved it, but wished he
had made it longer. He runs all over Lake Washington
and lower Puget Sound in it.
His list of complants was short 1. Flat of the
sponsons drum a lot. 2. The head made easer to use
when underway. 3. More room in the pilothouse for
seating when you are running with guests aboard. He
did say they were things you work around when you are
out goofing off!
He was planing on building one of the other Bolger
boats that was bigger but I don't remember what one it
was now. He liked going out on the boat for a weekend
and spend 150 buck or less for the whole weekend.
Seeing how you have children you may want to look at
something a bit bigger so the whole family can go with
you as well.
Just my thoughts mind you. Seeing how I know the kind
of hassles that can be had when you take two kids out
on a small boat for a overnighter! I'll be honest I
was ready to toss my partner's daughter over the side
and not let her back in the boat!
Blessings Krissie
> >I have been meaning to ask you about____________________________________________________________________________________
> > the "Microtrawler". It would fit my needs (I
> think) if I wanted to
> > build a powerboat or own one again.
>
>
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
Thanks Howard. I'll give that group a try also.
CC
CC
On Mar 8, 2007, at 11:53 AM, Howard Stephenson wrote:
> Chris,
>
> You might like to join the Yahoo Microtrawler group and look through
> the messages and photos there. It's not as active as this group and
> I'm not for a moment suggesting you're unwelcome here.
>
> Howard
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis <ccurtis-keyword-
> sailboat.a927b9@...> wrote:
>
> >I have been meaning to ask you about
> > the "Microtrawler". It would fit my needs (I think) if I wanted to
> > build a powerboat or own one again.
>
>
>
> How do you Reef it ?Read chapter 58 in _103 Sailing Rigs_ for the full detail,
But, in essence, the rig is ideal for a place with light winds,
interspersed with short squalls. You drop the foresail during the
squalls, and continue to sail with only the mainsail, lifting the
leeboard to correct the shift in helm balance. Also, tightening the
snotter on the the mainsail would flatten it reducing drive.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>How do you Reef it ?
>http://hallman.org/bolger/Rig58/Rig58.png
>
> Anybody else fascinated with Bolger's 'imaginary' sailing rig 58? He
> wrote that he knows of no boat built with this rig, (nor designed, I
> think). I took the Rig 58 sailplan and applied it to stereotypical
> Bolger box hull. The Ketch rig, combining a leg of mutton mainsail
> with a lateen fore sail seems entirely workable, low stress and
> powerful. Indeed superior for a tented camp cruiser. Someone should
> whip out a prototype.
>
Chris,
You might like to join the Yahoo Microtrawler group and look through
the messages and photos there. It's not as active as this group and
I'm not for a moment suggesting you're unwelcome here.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis <ccurtis-keyword-
sailboat.a927b9@...> wrote:
You might like to join the Yahoo Microtrawler group and look through
the messages and photos there. It's not as active as this group and
I'm not for a moment suggesting you're unwelcome here.
Howard
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Chris Curtis <ccurtis-keyword-
sailboat.a927b9@...> wrote:
>I have been meaning to ask you about
> the "Microtrawler". It would fit my needs (I think) if I wanted to
> build a powerboat or own one again.
Thanks Bruce for your thoughtful reply. I'm working from home today
(with two sick but cute kids). I have been meaning to ask you about
the "Microtrawler". It would fit my needs (I think) if I wanted to
build a powerboat or own one again. I live near a very large lake,
and the Microtrawler would be a good camping boat (in my opinion). I
have owned a standard "powerboat" that was good for water skiing, and
going fast, but useless for much else.
I have a 15' Jim Michalak Philsboat under construction (hull is
complete), and JM 26' Caprice has just been started (starting to
build some of the bulkheads), and often my thoughts turn towards a
powerboat beyond that.
Hopefully some of the owners of the boats you brought up will chime
in. I'd love to see some pictures, and read bout their riding and
handling.
Chris Curtis
(with two sick but cute kids). I have been meaning to ask you about
the "Microtrawler". It would fit my needs (I think) if I wanted to
build a powerboat or own one again. I live near a very large lake,
and the Microtrawler would be a good camping boat (in my opinion). I
have owned a standard "powerboat" that was good for water skiing, and
going fast, but useless for much else.
I have a 15' Jim Michalak Philsboat under construction (hull is
complete), and JM 26' Caprice has just been started (starting to
build some of the bulkheads), and often my thoughts turn towards a
powerboat beyond that.
Hopefully some of the owners of the boats you brought up will chime
in. I'd love to see some pictures, and read bout their riding and
handling.
Chris Curtis
On Mar 8, 2007, at 10:50 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
> > powerboat the Microtrawler would appear to fit my needs.
>
> The Microtrawler is a proven success, and some others on this list
> with first hand knowledge will likely chime in.
>
> If 'fit your needs' means a big boat squeezed into a little package,
> you are right on target. One overlooked issue, I think, is that the
> time to build the detail work finishing all the big boat details into
> that small hull take about as much time as building a big boat.
> Though, Microtrawler will fit on a trailer in your driveway, where the
> big boat would not.
>
> If you want similar, stepped up into a bigger boat, consider
> Retriever.
>
> > Do you know of any other (successful) Bolger designs that use that
> > flat "ski" leg hull?
>
> The 'ski' leg hull is well proven to work. Hawkeye, Fastbrick,
> Watervan, have pronounced skegs, and others have a shallow 'shoe',
> like Clam Skiff, and Topaz.
>
>
> powerboat the Microtrawler would appear to fit my needs.The Microtrawler is a proven success, and some others on this list
with first hand knowledge will likely chime in.
If 'fit your needs' means a big boat squeezed into a little package,
you are right on target. One overlooked issue, I think, is that the
time to build the detail work finishing all the big boat details into
that small hull take about as much time as building a big boat.
Though, Microtrawler will fit on a trailer in your driveway, where the
big boat would not.
If you want similar, stepped up into a bigger boat, consider Retriever.
> Do you know of any other (successful) Bolger designs that use thatThe 'ski' leg hull is well proven to work. Hawkeye, Fastbrick,
> flat "ski" leg hull?
Watervan, have pronounced skegs, and others have a shallow 'shoe',
like Clam Skiff, and Topaz.
Hello Bruce. I own a copy of "Boats with an open mind" One boat in
particular (among many in that book I find fascinating) I like is the
Microtrawler. I have often thought, if I ever built another
powerboat the Microtrawler would appear to fit my needs. You appear
to be quite Bolger knowledgeable. Can you comment on the chosen hull
design of that protocolar vessel?
Do you know of any other (successful) Bolger designs that use that
flat "ski" leg hull?
Chris Curtis
particular (among many in that book I find fascinating) I like is the
Microtrawler. I have often thought, if I ever built another
powerboat the Microtrawler would appear to fit my needs. You appear
to be quite Bolger knowledgeable. Can you comment on the chosen hull
design of that protocolar vessel?
Do you know of any other (successful) Bolger designs that use that
flat "ski" leg hull?
Chris Curtis
On Mar 8, 2007, at 9:03 AM, Bruce Hallman wrote:
>http://hallman.org/bolger/Rig58/Rig58.png
>
> Anybody else fascinated with Bolger's 'imaginary' sailing rig 58? He
> wrote that he knows of no boat built with this rig, (nor designed, I
> think). I took the Rig 58 sailplan and applied it to stereotypical
> Bolger box hull. The Ketch rig, combining a leg of mutton mainsail
> with a lateen fore sail seems entirely workable, low stress and
> powerful. Indeed superior for a tented camp cruiser. Someone should
> whip out a prototype.
>
>
http://hallman.org/bolger/Rig58/Rig58.png
Anybody else fascinated with Bolger's 'imaginary' sailing rig 58? He
wrote that he knows of no boat built with this rig, (nor designed, I
think). I took the Rig 58 sailplan and applied it to stereotypical
Bolger box hull. The Ketch rig, combining a leg of mutton mainsail
with a lateen fore sail seems entirely workable, low stress and
powerful. Indeed superior for a tented camp cruiser. Someone should
whip out a prototype.
Anybody else fascinated with Bolger's 'imaginary' sailing rig 58? He
wrote that he knows of no boat built with this rig, (nor designed, I
think). I took the Rig 58 sailplan and applied it to stereotypical
Bolger box hull. The Ketch rig, combining a leg of mutton mainsail
with a lateen fore sail seems entirely workable, low stress and
powerful. Indeed superior for a tented camp cruiser. Someone should
whip out a prototype.