Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

True Doug, Ford FE gas truck engines had larger diameter crankshafts and cam profiles designed more for low RPM torque, compared to the equivalent car engines. Some GMC truck gassers even had exhaust valve rotators and stellite valve seats, anticipating heavier engine load demands. 

Your Isuzu may have had oil starvation issues if the oilpan capacity was not increased and the pickup lowered. I have a marinized 1956 Packard V8 with the oilpan capacity increased from 5 quarts to 4 gallons and an integral oil cooler built in. Most working boats of 25-30 feet and up have gone diesel but that may not be a practical option for the MT being discussed. 4 cycle outboards have been around for several years now and have a good track record even in small commercial fishboats that get hard use.

From:Douglas Pollard <dougpol1@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Fri, November 16, 2012 12:33:28 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Yes this is all true. Back in the 1960's we used to marinize v8 gasoline engines for Chesapeake Bay work boats. WE always looked for a truck engine because they had four bolt main bearings and I think maybe an extra main though I am not sure about that. Most Of the small diesel boat engine are industrial stationary engine that the manufacturer has marinized. There is not much difference between an engine running a boat and one running a water pump 24-7.   I think that the Volkswagen 4 cylinder automobile diesel engine did not hold up well.  I had a 3cylinder Izuzu diesel in a boat and it was a marinized industrial engine.  I had trouble with the #1 cylinder and again after rebuilding. I figured it was designed to set flat when running and the incline may have been a problem??   My experience with outboard engines is that they don't last long in my experience. This may be due to running wide open all the time??   I can't speak for the 4 cycle high torque engines with propellers intended for slower none plaining boats. They may be great?           Doug


On 11/16/2012 12:29 PM, JOHN WALLIS wrote:
 
Good points Susanne. Also consider that automobile engines typically only run @ about 20% of rated max HP around 80% of the time (coasting, idling at the stop light, flat terrain cruising etc). 

On the other hand, when you consider hull drag, prop thrust and friction, marine engines are constantly going uphill towing a trailer and are designed accordingly. My recommendation is a 4 stroke outboard until you get into larger boats where a diesel inboard makes more sense. 

From:"philbolger@..."<philbolger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Fri, November 16, 2012 4:57:13 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Every SUBARU engine is a flat -4 or -6 - and always water-cooled.

Ultimately for the horsepower to get MT up on a plane no power plant will as light for the power as an outboard by the time you add up gearbox, shafting, propeller, pivoting of prop etc.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
From:nezih
Sent:Friday, November 16, 2012 3:35 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Sir,
Any picture of the Engine,you saw in Fort Lauderdale in a Dunebuggy shop.
Highly appreciated
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Friday, November 16, 2012 4:24 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

I read someplace that the engine designer was an airplane designer. It sure looks like and airplane engine. Back in the 1980's somebody built a water cooled aluminum block to bolt on to the crank case in place of the air cooled jugs.  They also had water cooled heads for it. I saw one of the engines in a Dunebuggy shop In Fort Lauderdale. That engine might well make a nice boat engine.  
                                                Doug

On 11/15/2012 09:00 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
 

Yeh, it was great to have it and the transaxle balanced atop a rolling jack. The heat is what burned the valves out. I expect in a boat one may also seem pretty loud.



On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:

 
What the engine had going for it was it could be dropped out for rebuilding in 15 minutes.  Usually the valves were burned and new rings needed the lower end bearings and crank held up well... ...I would think it would make a far better engine for an air boat. In this case it can be standing above the boat where it can get free air circulation.  
         Doug


On 11/15/2012 12:52 PM, nezih wrote:
 

Yesterday,I have been informed that boat builders here are installing old VW Beetle Engines(after marinise)
as Inboard Engine.They are not heavy,like outbards.I think this engine eliminates the weight problem of other
Inboard Engines
Awaiting comments.
Nezih





Yes this is all true. Back in the 1960's we used to marinize v8 gasoline engines for Chesapeake Bay work boats. WE always looked for a truck engine because they had four bolt main bearings and I think maybe an extra main though I am not sure about that. Most Of the small diesel boat engine are industrial stationary engine that the manufacturer has marinized. There is not much difference between an engine running a boat and one running a water pump 24-7.   I think that the Volkswagen 4 cylinder automobile diesel engine did not hold up well.  I had a 3cylinder Izuzu diesel in a boat and it was a marinized industrial engine.  I had trouble with the #1 cylinder and again after rebuilding. I figured it was designed to set flat when running and the incline may have been a problem??   My experience with outboard engines is that they don't last long in my experience. This may be due to running wide open all the time??   I can't speak for the 4 cycle high torque engines with propellers intended for slower none plaining boats. They may be great?           Doug


On 11/16/2012 12:29 PM, JOHN WALLIS wrote:
 
Good points Susanne. Also consider that automobile engines typically only run @ about 20% of rated max HP around 80% of the time (coasting, idling at the stop light, flat terrain cruising etc). 

On the other hand, when you consider hull drag, prop thrust and friction, marine engines are constantly going uphill towing a trailer and are designed accordingly. My recommendation is a 4 stroke outboard until you get into larger boats where a diesel inboard makes more sense. 

From:"philbolger@..."<philbolger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Fri, November 16, 2012 4:57:13 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Every SUBARU engine is a flat -4 or -6 - and always water-cooled.

Ultimately for the horsepower to get MT up on a plane no power plant will as light for the power as an outboard by the time you add up gearbox, shafting, propeller, pivoting of prop etc.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
From:nezih
Sent:Friday, November 16, 2012 3:35 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Sir,
Any picture of the Engine,you saw in Fort Lauderdale in a Dunebuggy shop.
Highly appreciated
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Friday, November 16, 2012 4:24 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

I read someplace that the engine designer was an airplane designer. It sure looks like and airplane engine. Back in the 1980's somebody built a water cooled aluminum block to bolt on to the crank case in place of the air cooled jugs.  They also had water cooled heads for it. I saw one of the engines in a Dunebuggy shop In Fort Lauderdale. That engine might well make a nice boat engine.  
                                                Doug

On 11/15/2012 09:00 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
 

Yeh, it was great to have it and the transaxle balanced atop a rolling jack. The heat is what burned the valves out. I expect in a boat one may also seem pretty loud.



On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:

 
What the engine had going for it was it could be dropped out for rebuilding in 15 minutes.  Usually the valves were burned and new rings needed the lower end bearings and crank held up well... ...I would think it would make a far better engine for an air boat. In this case it can be standing above the boat where it can get free air circulation.  
         Doug


On 11/15/2012 12:52 PM, nezih wrote:
 

Yesterday,I have been informed that boat builders here are installing old VW Beetle Engines(after marinise)
as Inboard Engine.They are not heavy,like outbards.I think this engine eliminates the weight problem of other
Inboard Engines
Awaiting comments.
Nezih





On 11/16/2012 12:29 PM, JOHN WALLIS wrote:
 
Good points Susanne. Also consider that automobile engines typically only run @ about 20% of rated max HP around 80% of the time (coasting, idling at the stop light, flat terrain cruising etc). 

On the other hand, when you consider hull drag, prop thrust and friction, marine engines are constantly going uphill towing a trailer and are designed accordingly. My recommendation is a 4 stroke outboard until you get into larger boats where a diesel inboard makes more sense. 

From:"philbolger@..."<philbolger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Fri, November 16, 2012 4:57:13 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Every SUBARU engine is a flat -4 or -6 - and always water-cooled.

Ultimately for the horsepower to get MT up on a plane no power plant will as light for the power as an outboard by the time you add up gearbox, shafting, propeller, pivoting of prop etc.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
From:nezih
Sent:Friday, November 16, 2012 3:35 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Sir,
Any picture of the Engine,you saw in Fort Lauderdale in a Dunebuggy shop.
Highly appreciated
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Friday, November 16, 2012 4:24 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

I read someplace that the engine designer was an airplane designer. It sure looks like and airplane engine. Back in the 1980's somebody built a water cooled aluminum block to bolt on to the crank case in place of the air cooled jugs.  They also had water cooled heads for it. I saw one of the engines in a Dunebuggy shop In Fort Lauderdale. That engine might well make a nice boat engine.  
                                                Doug

On 11/15/2012 09:00 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
 

Yeh, it was great to have it and the transaxle balanced atop a rolling jack. The heat is what burned the valves out. I expect in a boat one may also seem pretty loud.



On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:

 
What the engine had going for it was it could be dropped out for rebuilding in 15 minutes.  Usually the valves were burned and new rings needed the lower end bearings and crank held up well... ...I would think it would make a far better engine for an air boat. In this case it can be standing above the boat where it can get free air circulation.  
         Doug


On 11/15/2012 12:52 PM, nezih wrote:
 

Yesterday,I have been informed that boat builders here are installing old VW Beetle Engines(after marinise)
as Inboard Engine.They are not heavy,like outbards.I think this engine eliminates the weight problem of other
Inboard Engines
Awaiting comments.
Nezih





--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "nezih" <gencahm@...> wrote:
>
> Nezih, further thought into the matter brought me to an engine Yanmar used to produce.....a diesel outboard. I believe these were probably more popular in your part of the world then here in the US. When I first started construction of my MT I seriously considered this engine. The high cost (over 10 grand) did me in and shortly thereafter I purchased a new 40 hp 4 stroke Suzuki DF40 gasoline outboard instead, at 1/3 the cost of the Yanmar. If you can locate one of these Yanmars, it would meet a lot of your criteria: it's diesel so there will be a cost savings for fuel along with greater economy.....it's all self contained meaning there will be no engineering think trying to design a power plant (inboard power) into a boat design that was never considered for anything but outboard power. And, finally, it came from a reputable manufacturer in Yanmar. Rarely do they come up for sale on Ebay and when they do, they are not cheap. But it is something to consider if you can acquire one. I believe your small, lightweight air-cooled diesel outboard was feasible on the MT, but in my humble opinion, automotive style engines like the water cooled Subaru flat four would add a lot of weight. I don't think the VW flat four is going to neatly fit into the lower cutwater hull of MT, let alone the Subie flat 4.....
>
In the seventies, when I had a shop in Myrtle Beach, S.C., one of my clients, a flying buff, was urging me to build a monoplane (from plans) powered by a converted VW engine. I don't remember the specs on the engine. They might be available from the Experiment Aircraft Association.

 
Michael Childs
415 828 9663 - 626 799 9796
www.michaelchilds.com
michael_v_childs@...
Good points Susanne. Also consider that automobile engines typically only run @ about 20% of rated max HP around 80% of the time (coasting, idling at the stop light, flat terrain cruising etc). 

On the other hand, when you consider hull drag, prop thrust and friction, marine engines are constantly going uphill towing a trailer and are designed accordingly. My recommendation is a 4 stroke outboard until you get into larger boats where a diesel inboard makes more sense. 

From:"philbolger@..." <philbolger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Fri, November 16, 2012 4:57:13 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Every SUBARU engine is a flat -4 or -6 - and always water-cooled.

Ultimately for the horsepower to get MT up on a plane no power plant will as light for the power as an outboard by the time you add up gearbox, shafting, propeller, pivoting of prop etc.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
From:nezih
Sent:Friday, November 16, 2012 3:35 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Sir,
Any picture of the Engine,you saw in Fort Lauderdale in a Dunebuggy shop.
Highly appreciated
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Friday, November 16, 2012 4:24 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

I read someplace that the engine designer was an airplane designer. It sure looks like and airplane engine. Back in the 1980's somebody built a water cooled aluminum block to bolt on to the crank case in place of the air cooled jugs.  They also had water cooled heads for it. I saw one of the engines in a Dunebuggy shop In Fort Lauderdale. That engine might well make a nice boat engine.  
                                                Doug

On 11/15/2012 09:00 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
 

Yeh, it was great to have it and the transaxle balanced atop a rolling jack. The heat is what burned the valves out. I expect in a boat one may also seem pretty loud.



On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:

 
What the engine had going for it was it could be dropped out for rebuilding in 15 minutes.  Usually the valves were burned and new rings needed the lower end bearings and crank held up well... ...I would think it would make a far better engine for an air boat. In this case it can be standing above the boat where it can get free air circulation.  
         Doug


On 11/15/2012 12:52 PM, nezih wrote:
 

Yesterday,I have been informed that boat builders here are installing old VW Beetle Engines(after marinise)
as Inboard Engine.They are not heavy,like outbards.I think this engine eliminates the weight problem of other
Inboard Engines
Awaiting comments.
Nezih




No pictures.  That was in the day of film cameras. You didn't take pictures of anything but your kids, wife, or boat:-)           Doug

On 11/16/2012 03:35 AM, nezih wrote:
 

Sir,
Any picture of the Engine,you saw in Fort Lauderdale in a Dunebuggy shop.
Highly appreciated
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Friday, November 16, 2012 4:24 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

I read someplace that the engine designer was an airplane designer. It sure looks like and airplane engine. Back in the 1980's somebody built a water cooled aluminum block to bolt on to the crank case in place of the air cooled jugs.  They also had water cooled heads for it. I saw one of the engines in a Dunebuggy shop In Fort Lauderdale. That engine might well make a nice boat engine.  
                                                Doug

On 11/15/2012 09:00 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
 

Yeh, it was great to have it and the transaxle balanced atop a rolling jack. The heat is what burned the valves out. I expect in a boat one may also seem pretty loud.



On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:

 
What the engine had going for it was it could be dropped out for rebuilding in 15 minutes.  Usually the valves were burned and new rings needed the lower end bearings and crank held up well... ...I would think it would make a far better engine for an air boat. In this case it can be standing above the boat where it can get free air circulation.  
         Doug


On 11/15/2012 12:52 PM, nezih wrote:
 

Yesterday,I have been informed that boat builders here are installing old VW Beetle Engines(after marinise)
as Inboard Engine.They are not heavy,like outbards.I think this engine eliminates the weight problem of other
Inboard Engines
Awaiting comments.
Nezih





Every SUBARU engine is a flat -4 or -6 - and always water-cooled.

Ultimately for the horsepower to get MT up on a plane no power plant will as light for the power as an outboard by the time you add up gearbox, shafting, propeller, pivoting of prop etc.

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
From:nezih
Sent:Friday, November 16, 2012 3:35 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Sir,
Any picture of the Engine,you saw in Fort Lauderdale in a Dunebuggy shop.
Highly appreciated
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Friday, November 16, 2012 4:24 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

I read someplace that the engine designer was an airplane designer. It sure looks like and airplane engine. Back in the 1980's somebody built a water cooled aluminum block to bolt on to the crank case in place of the air cooled jugs.  They also had water cooled heads for it. I saw one of the engines in a Dunebuggy shop In Fort Lauderdale. That engine might well make a nice boat engine.  
                                                Doug

On 11/15/2012 09:00 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
 

Yeh, it was great to have it and the transaxle balanced atop a rolling jack. The heat is what burned the valves out. I expect in a boat one may also seem pretty loud.



On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:

 
What the engine had going for it was it could be dropped out for rebuilding in 15 minutes.  Usually the valves were burned and new rings needed the lower end bearings and crank held up well... ...I would think it would make a far better engine for an air boat. In this case it can be standing above the boat where it can get free air circulation.  
         Doug


On 11/15/2012 12:52 PM, nezih wrote:
 

Yesterday,I have been informed that boat builders here are installing old VW Beetle Engines(after marinise)
as Inboard Engine.They are not heavy,like outbards.I think this engine eliminates the weight problem of other
Inboard Engines
Awaiting comments.
Nezih



Sir,
I visited the mentioned Web and see many essays about MT.Thanks a lot.
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:56 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

nezith,


You might find this article of a Microtrawler build of interest.




Almost seems like some of the plans were missing when he built it as I am sure they are more complete in detail than what he mentions. But his experience in motor trials I think are really helpful. If you type in Micro trawler in the search box up top right of the article there are some other writings about the design.


Nels



--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "nezih" <gencahm@...> wrote:
>
> Sir,I respect your choice.But one cylinder engine is a little bit noisy,I think.
>

Sir,
Any picture of the Engine,you saw in Fort Lauderdale in a Dunebuggy shop.
Highly appreciated
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Friday, November 16, 2012 4:24 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

I read someplace that the engine designer was an airplane designer. It sure looks like and airplane engine. Back in the 1980's somebody built a water cooled aluminum block to bolt on to the crank case in place of the air cooled jugs.  They also had water cooled heads for it. I saw one of the engines in a Dunebuggy shop In Fort Lauderdale. That engine might well make a nice boat engine.  
                                                Doug

On 11/15/2012 09:00 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
 

Yeh, it was great to have it and the transaxle balanced atop a rolling jack. The heat is what burned the valves out. I expect in a boat one may also seem pretty loud.



On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:

 
What the engine had going for it was it could be dropped out for rebuilding in 15 minutes.  Usually the valves were burned and new rings needed the lower end bearings and crank held up well... ...I would think it would make a far better engine for an air boat. In this case it can be standing above the boat where it can get free air circulation.  
         Doug


On 11/15/2012 12:52 PM, nezih wrote:
 

Yesterday,I have been informed that boat builders here are installing old VW Beetle Engines(after marinise)
as Inboard Engine.They are not heavy,like outbards.I think this engine eliminates the weight problem of other
Inboard Engines
Awaiting comments.
Nezih



I read someplace that the engine designer was an airplane designer. It sure looks like and airplane engine. Back in the 1980's somebody built a water cooled aluminum block to bolt on to the crank case in place of the air cooled jugs.  They also had water cooled heads for it. I saw one of the engines in a Dunebuggy shop In Fort Lauderdale. That engine might well make a nice boat engine.  
                                                Doug

On 11/15/2012 09:00 PM, Mark Albanese wrote:
 

Yeh, it was great to have it and the transaxle balanced atop a rolling jack. The heat is what burned the valves out. I expect in a boat one may also seem pretty loud.


 
On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:

 
What the engine had going for it was it could be dropped out for rebuilding in 15 minutes.  Usually the valves were burned and new rings needed the lower end bearings and crank held up well... ...I would think it would make a far better engine for an air boat. In this case it can be standing above the boat where it can get free air circulation.  
         Doug


On 11/15/2012 12:52 PM, nezih wrote:
 

Yesterday,I have been informed that boat builders here are installing old VW Beetle Engines(after marinise)
as Inboard Engine.They are not heavy,like outbards.I think this engine eliminates the weight problem of other
Inboard Engines
Awaiting comments.
Nezih




Yeh, it was great to have it and the transaxle balanced atop a rolling jack. The heat is what burned the valves out. I expect in a boat one may also seem pretty loud.

 
On Nov 15, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Douglas Pollard wrote:

 
What the engine had going for it was it could be dropped out for rebuilding in 15 minutes.  Usually the valves were burned and new rings needed the lower end bearings and crank held up well... ...I would think it would make a far better engine for an air boat. In this case it can be standing above the boat where it can get free air circulation.  
         Doug


On 11/15/2012 12:52 PM, nezih wrote:
 

Yesterday,I have been informed that boat builders here are installing old VW Beetle Engines(after marinise)
as Inboard Engine.They are not heavy,like outbards.I think this engine eliminates the weight problem of other
Inboard Engines
Awaiting comments.
Nezih



> Usually the valves were burned and new rings needed the lower end
> bearings and crank held up well. So in a day or so she was back on
> the road again and that was OK for a car.

Engines for cars are engineered far less robustly than engines under constant high loads such as for tractors pulling ploughs, and boats pushing up waves. Those don't get to cruise along at low load on a flat or to go downhill most of the time. I guess an ordinary (marinised) car engine might do if it is rated for much more power than is required in a boat, and then de-tuned, but that gets back to power to weight considerations...
  I have owned a couple of Beatles over the years.  The engine was designed in the 1930's and was the cheapest engine they could come up with at the time.  They sold the cars before they were built and then they didn't build the cars and Hitler used the money to build an army.  In the 1930's car engines had to be rebuilt every 50,000 miles Volkswagon was no exception.  What the engine had going for it was it could be dropped out for rebuilding in 15 minutes.  Usually the valves were burned and new rings needed the lower end bearings and crank held up well.  So in a day or so she was back on the road again and that was OK for a car. In a boat its quite a job to get the engine out for a top end rebuild. A blower will be needed to  keep the air cooled engine cool.  The older engines need new valves to stand the heat and lack of lead lubrication provided by leaded gasoline.  I would think it would make a far better engine for an air boat. In this case it can be standing above the boat where it can get free air circulation. 
    They were good little engines in their time for the beatle and I really like them a lot.  I helped a couple guys try to put one in an ultralight airplane but it was too heavy for the horsepower it delivers so we couldn't make it work.  The litle Rotax engines like they use in  wave runners might be a better choice.                                       Doug


On 11/15/2012 12:52 PM, nezih wrote:
 

Yesterday,I have been informed that boat builders here are installing old VW Beetle Engines(after marinise)
as Inboard Engine.They are not heavy,like outbards.I think this engine eliminates the weight problem of other
Inboard Engines
Awaiting comments.
Nezih

nezith,

You might find this article of a Microtrawler build of interest.


http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/12/projects/microtrawler/index.html


Almost seems like some of the plans were missing when he built it as I am sure they are more complete in detail than what he mentions. But his experience in motor trials I think are really helpful. If you type in Micro trawler in the search box up top right of the article there are some other writings about the design.


Nels



--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "nezih" <gencahm@...> wrote:
>
> Sir,I respect your choice.But one cylinder engine is a little bit noisy,I think.
>

Yesterday,I have been informed that boat builders here are installing old VW Beetle Engines(after marinise)
as Inboard Engine.They are not heavy,like outbards.I think this engine eliminates the weight problem of other
Inboard Engines
Awaiting comments.
Nezih
Yes in general modern one cylinder engines are noisy.  My old 2cylinder Volvo though heavy which is a drawback is not noisy. The reason is the flywheel weighs about 200 lbs and when it is in motion it carries over the top dead center point where the firing takes place.   When running at 1600 or 1800 rpm the engine runs very smooth and quiet and in fact sounds much like a steam engine.  There is little vibration and very quiet at cruising speed.  They are far better engines than the newer Kabota, Bata, Yanmar and other light weight engines that have very light flywheels so they don't  smooth out the engine strokes.
Single  cylinder gasoline engines are quiet as there is little detonation noise and the low compression makes them smooth.  A small low compression single cylinder engine burns little fuel but there aren't any new ones.
As far as outboard engines are concerned there is hardly any motors that are smoother.   The EPA did not like two cycle engines because of oil mixing.  The truth is they could have for little money been made as fuel efficient as 4 stroke engines  running at slower rpms and they can be build so there is no need to have oil in the gas.  Two stroke engines only become inefficient at high rpms when they don't scavenge out exhaust gases as well as two stroke ones.  They can be made to scavenge much better.  A small turbo charger built right into the block is a very cheap solution to that problem.
Now all we need to do is convince someone to build them and then convince the Government that they are clean.
A good friend of mine put a 16 horse outboard on his sailboat.  He put a high efficiency prop on the engine and never runs the motor above 2000 rpms. which I guess is about half throttle. He is likely only making about 8 or 9 horsepower or less He expects the motor to run 5000 hrs before rebuilding.  It will be interesting to see how that works out?          Doug

On 11/13/2012 04:33 AM, nezih wrote:

Sir,I respect your choice.But one cylinder engine is a little bit noisy,I think.
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 10:10 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

I guess some of where I am coming from is that I like old engines. I like the thump, thump. of a slow turning single cylinder engine. I grew up with one lung gasoline engines and some kerosene engines. My boat engine has a top speed of 2000 rpms and I never run it over 1800 for me that falls right in place with using sail. There was an old fireboat in the Bahamas about 20 years ago named O-ble -O
and that was the sound the old engine made. O-ble-O  O-bLe- O- Oble-O. She was an old New York Fire boat about 70ft long and the single cylinder engine likely turned over about 150 rpms when cruising. I used to have a video sound  but moisture and time go to it.  Forever lost.     Doug

On 11/12/2012 01:36 PM, JOHN WALLIS wrote:
Hard to beat modern 4 stroke outboards (Honda, Tohatsu, etc.) for fuel economy, serviceability, power to weight ratio and reliability. Also no worries with bilge venting, through hulls and fuel tank placement. Another plus is portability to a different vessel in thefuture. I run a Tohatsu MFS 20 HP on a 15' Diablo and am quite happy with the quiet, reliable, powerful andefficientperformance.

From:"philbolger@..."<philbolger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Mon, November 12, 2012 10:10:42 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

For what a Diesel inboard/outboard drive alone costs, the tax-man could be 'greased' for likely a decade or two...

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 12:21 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

Well I don't agree in principal.  The present day inboard outboards may have problems but there is absolutely no reason why they should be less long lived than an outboard.  The leg and shafting and gears as well as bearings and seals are about the same. The engine being inboard is well protected from the weather and should last longer than one out in the salt spray and rain. If they are less dependable it is because they are flawed not due to any advantage of outboard motors over inboards. I think inboards are the reliable, the easiest to work on big alternators are easily fitted.  A good diesel is infinantly rebuildable. The small volvo in my boat is almost 40 years old. It is saltwater cooled and is still running and dependable.  I would say the difference could be that people don't pull the inboard outboars off and have the underwater seals replaced . With the outboard that is easily done, so to me that means poor maintenance rather than more trouble prone?          Doug

On 11/12/2012 11:51 AM,philbolger@...wrote:

Way too heavy anyway...

Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:22 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

What ever you decide DO NOT USE ASTERNDRIVEINBOARD !!!!  I/O  as they are known in the

USA  are the worst choice for saltwater. I made a poem about them :

I O,  IO,-- it will never work you know

It will,you think

and then it sinks

IO ,IO

Too much to go wrong. Seals ,hydraulics,electrical,linkage,gages and saltwater corrosion and electrolysis. Save your money. In my opinion ,you can't beat a 4 stroke outboard  . The smallest that will give you the performance you desire. Keep it as simple as possible. The main advantage of and outboard is there in nothru- hull fittings to worry about . Most boats sink at their docks with leakingthru- hull fittings. Capt. Rocky

From:"nezih" <gencahm@gmail.com>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:49 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

Sir,
Agree with you and I will calculate the weight ofDieelEngine and also shaft angle.
Maybe stern drive inboard is OK.
Thanks
Nezih
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:43 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

Well, sir, okay. SoHawkeyeseems one half meter too long. And the photo of Katie Z is irresistible!

Further, I only suggest you watch the diesel's weight and shaft angle carefully.

Besto'luck.
Mark

On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:24 AM,nezihwrote:


Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcsitlenghtis less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,payingtaxes.MTis capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih<1.jpg>





Sir,I respect your choice.But one cylinder engine is a little bit noisy,I think.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 10:10 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

   I guess some of where I am coming from is that I like old engines. I like the thump, thump. of a slow turning single cylinder engine. I grew up with one lung gasoline engines and some kerosene engines. My boat engine has a top speed of 2000 rpms and I never run it over 1800 for me that falls right in place with using sail. There was an old fireboat in the Bahamas about 20 years ago named O-ble -O
 and that was the sound the old engine made. O-ble-O  O-bLe- O- Oble-O. She was an old New York Fire boat about 70ft long and the single cylinder engine likely turned over about 150 rpms when cruising. I used to have a video sound  but moisture and time go to it.  Forever lost.     Doug
 
 On 11/12/2012 01:36 PM, JOHN WALLIS wrote:
 
Hard to beat modern 4 stroke outboards (Honda, Tohatsu, etc.) for fuel economy, serviceability, power to weight ratio and reliability. Also no worries with bilge venting, through hulls and fuel tank placement. Another plus is portability to a different vessel in the future. I run a Tohatsu MFS 20 HP on a 15' Diablo and am quite happy with the quiet, reliable, powerful and efficient performance.  

From:"philbolger@..."<philbolger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Mon, November 12, 2012 10:10:42 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

For what a Diesel inboard/outboard drive alone costs, the tax-man could be 'greased' for likely a decade or two...

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 12:21 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well I don't agree in principal.  The present day inboard outboards may have problems but there is absolutely no reason why they should be less long lived than an outboard.  The leg and shafting and gears as well as bearings and seals are about the same. The engine being inboard is well protected from the weather and should last longer than one out in the salt spray and rain. If they are less dependable it is because they are flawed not due to any advantage of outboard motors over inboards. I think inboards are the reliable, the easiest to work on big alternators are easily fitted.  A good diesel is infinantly rebuildable. The small volvo in my boat is almost 40 years old. It is saltwater cooled and is still running and dependable.  I would say the difference could be that people don't pull the inboard outboars off and have the underwater seals replaced . With the outboard that is easily done, so to me that means poor maintenance rather than more trouble prone?          Doug  

On 11/12/2012 11:51 AM,philbolger@...wrote:
 

Way too heavy anyway...

Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:22 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

What ever you decide DO NOT USE ASTERNDRIVEINBOARD !!!!  I/O  as they are known in the

USA  are the worst choice for saltwater. I made a poem about them :

 

I O,  IO,-- it will never work you know

It will,you think

and then it sinks

IO ,IO 

Too much to go wrong. Seals ,hydraulics,electrical,linkage,gages and saltwater corrosion and electrolysis. Save your money. In my opinion ,you can't beat a 4 stroke outboard  . The smallest that will give you the performance you desire. Keep it as simple as possible. The main advantage of and outboard is there in nothru- hull fittings to worry about . Most boats sink at their docks with leakingthru- hull fittings. Capt. Rocky

From:"nezih" <gencahm@gmail.com>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:49 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Sir,
Agree with you and I will calculate the weight ofDieelEngine and also shaft angle.
Maybe stern drive inboard is OK.
Thanks
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:43 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well, sir, okay. SoHawkeyeseems one half meter too long. And the photo of Katie Z is irresistible!

Further, I only suggest you watch the diesel's weight and shaft angle carefully.

Besto'luck.
Mark

On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:24 AM,nezihwrote:

 

Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcsitlenghtis less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,paying taxes.MTis capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih<1.jpg>



Sir,
I will make my final decision after writing the advantages and disadvantages of inboards and outboards,one by one.
Bcs I received so mny comments for inboards nd outboards.
 
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 8:36 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Hard to beat modern 4 stroke outboards (Honda, Tohatsu, etc.) for fuel economy, serviceability, power to weight ratio and reliability. Also no worries with bilge venting, through hulls and fuel tank placement. Another plus is portability to a different vessel in the future. I run a Tohatsu MFS 20 HP on a 15' Diablo and am quite happy with the quiet, reliable, powerful and efficient performance.  

From:"philbolger@..." <philbolger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Mon, November 12, 2012 10:10:42 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

For what a Diesel inboard/outboard drive alone costs, the tax-man could be 'greased' for likely a decade or two...

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 12:21 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well I don't agree in principal.  The present day inboard outboards may have problems but there is absolutely no reason why they should be less long lived than an outboard.  The leg and shafting and gears as well as bearings and seals are about the same. The engine being inboard is well protected from the weather and should last longer than one out in the salt spray and rain. If they are less dependable it is because they are flawed not due to any advantage of outboard motors over inboards. I think inboards are the reliable, the easiest to work on big alternators are easily fitted.  A good diesel is infinantly rebuildable. The small volvo in my boat is almost 40 years old. It is saltwater cooled and is still running and dependable.  I would say the difference could be that people don't pull the inboard outboars off and have the underwater seals replaced . With the outboard that is easily done, so to me that means poor maintenance rather than more trouble prone?          Doug  

On 11/12/2012 11:51 AM,philbolger@...wrote:
 

Way too heavy anyway...

Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:22 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

What ever you decide DO NOT USE ASTERNDRIVEINBOARD !!!!  I/O  as they are known in the

USA  are the worst choice for saltwater. I made a poem about them :

 

I O,  IO,-- it will never work you know

It will,you think

and then it sinks

IO ,IO 

Too much to go wrong. Seals ,hydraulics,electrical,linkage,gages and saltwater corrosion and electrolysis. Save your money. In my opinion ,you can't beat a 4 stroke outboard  . The smallest that will give you the performance you desire. Keep it as simple as possible. The main advantage of and outboard is there in nothru- hull fittings to worry about . Most boats sink at their docks with leakingthru- hull fittings. Capt. Rocky

From:"nezih" <gencahm@gmail.com>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:49 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Sir,
Agree with you and I will calculate the weight ofDieelEngine and also shaft angle.
Maybe stern drive inboard is OK.
Thanks
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:43 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well, sir, okay. SoHawkeyeseems one half meter too long. And the photo of Katie Z is irresistible!

Further, I only suggest you watch the diesel's weight and shaft angle carefully.

Besto'luck.
Mark

On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:24 AM,nezihwrote:

 

Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcsitlenghtis less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,paying taxes.MTis capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih<1.jpg>



Agree with you sir.
Maintenance is priority for inboard and outboard.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 7:21 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well I don't agree in principal.  The present day inboard outboards may have problems but there is absolutely no reason why they should be less long lived than an outboard.  The leg and shafting and gears as well as bearings and seals are about the same. The engine being inboard is well protected from the weather and should last longer than one out in the salt spray and rain. If they are less dependable it is because they are flawed not due to any advantage of outboard motors over inboards. I think inboards are the reliable, the easiest to work on big alternators are easily fitted.  A good diesel is infinantly rebuildable. The small volvo in my boat is almost 40 years old. It is saltwater cooled and is still running and dependable.  I would say the difference could be that people don't pull the inboard outboars off and have the underwater seals replaced . With the outboard that is easily done, so to me that means poor maintenance rather than more trouble prone?          Doug  

On 11/12/2012 11:51 AM,philbolger@...wrote:
 

Way too heavy anyway...

Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:22 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

What ever you decide DO NOT USE ASTERNDRIVEINBOARD !!!!  I/O  as they are known in the

USA  are the worst choice for saltwater. I made a poem about them :

 

I O,  IO,-- it will never work you know

It will,you think

and then it sinks

IO ,IO 

Too much to go wrong. Seals ,hydraulics,electrical,linkage,gages and saltwater corrosion and electrolysis. Save your money. In my opinion ,you can't beat a 4 stroke outboard  . The smallest that will give you the performance you desire. Keep it as simple as possible. The main advantage of and outboard is there in nothru- hull fittings to worry about . Most boats sink at their docks with leakingthru- hull fittings. Capt. Rocky

From:"nezih" <gencahm@gmail.com>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:49 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Sir,
Agree with you and I will calculate the weight ofDieelEngine and also shaft angle.
Maybe stern drive inboard is OK.
Thanks
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:43 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well, sir, okay. SoHawkeyeseems one half meter too long. And the photo of Katie Z is irresistible!

Further, I only suggest you watch the diesel's weight and shaft angle carefully.

Besto'luck.
Mark

On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:24 AM,nezihwrote:

 

Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcsitlenghtis less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,paying taxes.MT is capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih<1.jpg>


Yes,Mrs.Altenburger,you right for current estimation at Bosphore.I remember my childhood.We are going our relatives,living at Bosphore
and there is one place.Current is more than 8 knots.So max.speed of Bosphour ship was 8 knots then and ship was passing from the other
side of it,which current speed was less there.Those were the days.
Yes,Naval traffic is heavy during the day.But I would like to inform you one thing.If I follow the seaside of Bosphore with apowerfullengine,there will be no problem.
In one place,width is 600 meters.This area is a little bit dangerous.That's all.Other places of Bosphore is wide and no problem.There are many small fishing boats,
with low power,fishing there.
If the boat documents are full,there will be no problem,during official control.
Bcs,there is no strict rule there.According to Int.Treaty,this area is called free passing area.For big ships,especially Tankers,it is asked to take offical people for
passing this area safely.It is narrow.That's all.
 
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:01 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Looking at the Bosporus right through Istanbul we'd find 8+kts of current.  And the Sea of Marmara seems large enough to likely suggest keeping relative seaworthiness in mind.  Very interesting, historic waters, full of large-ship commercial and naval traffic connecting the two large seas, with lots of ferries and working-craft running every which way and thus rich in opportunities for adventure and of course challenges.  Hard to resist. 

But should the tax-man dictate the geometry of an easily-built low-power boat to be part of this large and fast-paced traffic-pattern ?

Balancing priorities... ?!

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:28 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Nezih,
   I once had the chance to visit Istanbul for just a few days and never forgot it, including a Sight-Seeing tour around the Golden Horn.  Very intense and distinct experience of indeed 'Orient' meeting 'Occident' in this old and important city.  

How much does the annual tax on boats above the 5m mark really cost you ?
MICROTRAWLER is designed for planing with at least light outboard 50HP - versus either much heavier inboard diesel-power for the same speed or no speed at the same weight incl. gearbox, prop, rudder etc.  I do not recollect the current through the Marmara Strait but the Black and Mediterranean connect there with likely things getting 'lively on occasion, if not every 6.3hrs.  So you'd need light-weight/OB speed ?

Do they tax the boat-hull on the trailer ? 
Is it trailer-/marina-length or overall length running ?
And could you have a folding bow to make her longer once she is in the water.  

Accepting the extra 1m of length in taxes, a simple powersharpie of say 20-feet and 5-6 feet of width with a 10hp outboard might still be cheaper overall than a short wide horsepower-hungry hull that has no seriously useable cabin - even to just take a nap - but saves some money on taxes.  Such a hull will not weigh more than a short wide dense MT.  And that hull would look as good/'cute' as MT....  But not quite as easy to park - unless we fold the bow up when she is on the trailer...

Options, calculations, decision...
Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
 
----- Original Message -----
From:nezih
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:35 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Thanks for your diesel engine confirmation.Bcs they are safe and cheap fuel facility and long run,even in hot weather.
I am from Turkey,Istanbul and climate is stable,except 1 or 2 weeks stromy weather.During the summer time,temparature
is approximately 28-35 celsius degreeand we do not have big storms like USA.There is one inland sea(sea of Marmara)
and MT is quite suitable.Off course,Bosphourus is a narrow strait(lenght 15 kilometers,width 600-800 meters).
Kindly inform you that,your below comments has been dully noted.I will take care of them.
 
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:33 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 


Nezih,
Ah yes, inboard air cooled diesel! Much safer in enclosing a diesel versus a gasoline powered engine. Should be very economical to run compared to gas. I also understand your desire to use the smaller MT versus a larger Hawkeye design; here in the US, in my home state of NJ, boat registration fees are also set by the length of the boat. It sounds like you are going to have one interesting MT when she is done! At this time the only thing I may suggest is giving the engine good ventilation, with possible consideration in mounting the engine intake high (possibly via pipe as high as the cabin or thereabouts) to avoid any chance of water intrusion into the air intake of your engine. A good and sturdy, watertight engine box should be considered, too. I am not sure what the climate is like in your Med. area, here in the Northeast US, weather systems are constantly changing, bringing weather from absolute calm, to violent thunderstorms in the spring and summer, hurricanes in the fall and strong northwesteries in the winter. A nice, weather tight cabin is a definite plus along with proper enclosures for inboard boat engines.

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:28 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Nezih,
   I once had the chance to visit Istanbul for just a few days and never forgot it, including a Sight-Seeing tour around the Golden Horn.  Very intense and distinct experience of indeed 'Orient' meeting 'Occident' in this old and important city.  
Yes,Mrs.Altenburger,I am agree with you.Hence I want to spend the rest of my life by making tours with MT,during the summer time.In addition to Bosphore there is one another place called princes Islands(7 small islands).They are near to Bosphore.Especially in summer time.Beatiful place.
How much does the annual tax on boats above    the 5sm mark really cost you ?
MICROTRAWLER is designed for planing with at least light outboard 50HP - versus either much heavier inboard diesel-power for the same speed or no speed at the same weight incl. gearbox, prop, rudder etc.  I do not recollect the current through the Marmara Strait but the Black and Mediterranean connect there with likely things getting 'lively on occasion, if not every 6.3hrs.  So you'd need light-weight/OB speed ?
Annual tax over 5 meters is approx.200-250 usd.If you compare with USA maybe it is small amount.But regret to inform you it is not a fixed rate.Government can increase it every year like annual car taxes.In addition to that there is insurance etc.Before,we were paying taxes according to the HP of Engine.If HP is 9.9 or less that there were no taxes.Now they are collecting taxes according to the lenght of Boat.It is not easy to find cheap marinas here.If you add marine expences inc.tax.,it is taking a remarkable  annual amount.
For Engine,there are light Air Cooled engines made from Aliminium.Before I make my final decision I will compare the weight of Air cooled  Engine and Outboard.If there is slight difference no problem.Bcs the ply weight of sleeping area will compensate.
Do they tax the boat-hull on the trailer ? 
Is it trailer-/marina-length or overall length running ?
And could you have a folding bow to make her longer once she is in the water.
If Trailer weight is over 440 kgs,there is tax and has to be registered to traffic.Lenght is not probem.But I think,width will not be more than 2.40 meters.
Authorities are measuring the lenght of the boat,during the registeration and giving official documents writing the details of the Boat.  

Accepting the extra 1m of length in taxes, a simple powersharpie of say 20-feet and 5-6 feet of width with a 10hp outboard might still be cheaper overall than a short wide horsepower-hungry hull that has no seriously useable cabin - even to just take a nap - but saves some money on taxes.  Such a hull will not weigh more than a short wide dense MT.  And that hull would look as good/'cute' as MT....  But not quite as easy to park - unless we fold the bow up when she is on the trailer...

Options, calculations, decision...
Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
 
----- Original Message -----
From:nezih
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:35 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Thanks for your diesel engine confirmation.Bcs they are safe and cheap fuel facility and long run,even in hot weather.
I am from Turkey,Istanbul and climate is stable,except 1 or 2 weeks stromy weather.During the summer time,temparature
is approximately 28-35 celsius degreeand we do not have big storms like USA.There is one inland sea(sea of Marmara)
and MT is quite suitable.Off course,Bosphourus is a narrow strait(lenght 15 kilometers,width 600-800 meters).
Kindly inform you that,your below comments has been dully noted.I will take care of them.
 
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:33 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 


Nezih,
Ah yes, inboard air cooled diesel! Much safer in enclosing a diesel versus a gasoline powered engine. Should be very economical to run compared to gas. I also understand your desire to use the smaller MT versus a larger Hawkeye design; here in the US, in my home state of NJ, boat registration fees are also set by the length of the boat. It sounds like you are going to have one interesting MT when she is done! At this time the only thing I may suggest is giving the engine good ventilation, with possible consideration in mounting the engine intake high (possibly via pipe as high as the cabin or thereabouts) to avoid any chance of water intrusion into the air intake of your engine. A good and sturdy, watertight engine box should be considered, too. I am not sure what the climate is like in your Med. area, here in the Northeast US, weather systems are constantly changing, bringing weather from absolute calm, to violent thunderstorms in the spring and summer, hurricanes in the fall and strong northwesteries in the winter. A nice, weather tight cabin is a definite plus along with proper enclosures for inboard boat engines.

Might the difference in salinity from Alaska to the Med. aggravate the situation?

V/R
Chris

On 11/12/2012 3:31 PM, Harry James wrote:
We all have different takes on things. I would say that any standard US IO is way to big for the Micro trawler. I have no general brief against IO's however. The US IO's tend to be American Iron and they are very easy to work on. Any modern outboard requires schooling to work on as well as special tools.

Many years ago I got rid of the outboard I had on my 26' Pacific Dory I used on a set net and put in a Mercruiser IO because of the ease of work, less cost and the fact I could put a PTO on the front for hydraulics and there by get rid of the engine driven hydraulic power pac I had.

I will say that you can't leave an IO in saltwater if you can't tilt it clear, same for an outboard. Works good on trailed boats.

HJ

We all have different takes on things. I would say that any standard US IO is way to big for the Micro trawler. I have no general brief against IO's however. The US IO's tend to be American Iron and they are very easy to work on. Any modern outboard requires schooling to work on as well as special tools.

Many years ago I got rid of the outboard I had on my 26' Pacific Dory I used on a set net and put in a Mercruiser IO because of the ease of work, less cost and the fact I could put a PTO on the front for hydraulics and there by get rid of the engine driven hydraulic power pac I had.

I will say that you can't leave an IO in saltwater if you can't tilt it clear, same for an outboard. Works good on trailed boats.

HJ

On 11/12/2012 7:22 AM,captainrocky@...wrote:

What ever you decide DO NOT USE ASTERNDRIVEINBOARD !!!!  I/O  as they are known in the

USA  are the worst choice for saltwater. I made a poem about them :

 

I O,  IO,-- it will never work you know

It will,you think

and then it sinks

IO ,IO 

Too much to go wrong. Seals ,hydraulics,electrical,linkage,gages and saltwater corrosion and electrolysis. Save your money. In my opinion ,you can't beat a 4 stroke outboard  . The smallest that will give you the performance you desire. Keep it as simple as possible. The main advantage of and outboard is there in nothru- hull fittings to worry about . Most boats sink at their docks with leakingthru- hull fittings. Capt. Rocky


I guess some of where I am coming from is that I like old engines. I like the thump, thump. of a slow turning single cylinder engine. I grew up with one lung gasoline engines and some kerosene engines. My boat engine has a top speed of 2000 rpms and I never run it over 1800 for me that falls right in place with using sail. There was an old fireboat in the Bahamas about 20 years ago named O-ble -O
and that was the sound the old engine made. O-ble-O  O-bLe- O- Oble-O. She was an old New York Fire boat about 70ft long and the single cylinder engine likely turned over about 150 rpms when cruising. I used to have a video sound  but moisture and time go to it.  Forever lost.     Doug

On 11/12/2012 01:36 PM, JOHN WALLIS wrote:
Hard to beat modern 4 stroke outboards (Honda, Tohatsu, etc.) for fuel economy, serviceability, power to weight ratio and reliability. Also no worries with bilge venting, through hulls and fuel tank placement. Another plus is portability to a different vessel in thefuture. I run a Tohatsu MFS 20 HP on a 15' Diablo and am quite happy with the quiet, reliable, powerful andefficientperformance.

From:"philbolger@..."<philbolger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Mon, November 12, 2012 10:10:42 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

For what a Diesel inboard/outboard drive alone costs, the tax-man could be 'greased' for likely a decade or two...

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 12:21 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

Well I don't agree in principal.  The present day inboard outboards may have problems but there is absolutely no reason why they should be less long lived than an outboard.  The leg and shafting and gears as well as bearings and seals are about the same. The engine being inboard is well protected from the weather and should last longer than one out in the salt spray and rain. If they are less dependable it is because they are flawed not due to any advantage of outboard motors over inboards. I think inboards are the reliable, the easiest to work on big alternators are easily fitted.  A good diesel is infinantly rebuildable. The small volvo in my boat is almost 40 years old. It is saltwater cooled and is still running and dependable.  I would say the difference could be that people don't pull the inboard outboars off and have the underwater seals replaced . With the outboard that is easily done, so to me that means poor maintenance rather than more trouble prone?          Doug

On 11/12/2012 11:51 AM,philbolger@...wrote:

Way too heavy anyway...

Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:22 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

What ever you decide DO NOT USE ASTERNDRIVEINBOARD !!!!  I/O  as they are known in the

USA  are the worst choice for saltwater. I made a poem about them :

I O,  IO,-- it will never work you know

It will,you think

and then it sinks

IO ,IO

Too much to go wrong. Seals ,hydraulics,electrical,linkage,gages and saltwater corrosion and electrolysis. Save your money. In my opinion ,you can't beat a 4 stroke outboard  . The smallest that will give you the performance you desire. Keep it as simple as possible. The main advantage of and outboard is there in nothru- hull fittings to worry about . Most boats sink at their docks with leakingthru- hull fittings. Capt. Rocky

From:"nezih" <gencahm@gmail.com>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:49 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

Sir,
Agree with you and I will calculate the weight ofDieelEngine and also shaft angle.
Maybe stern drive inboard is OK.
Thanks
Nezih
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:43 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

Well, sir, okay. SoHawkeyeseems one half meter too long. And the photo of Katie Z is irresistible!

Further, I only suggest you watch the diesel's weight and shaft angle carefully.

Besto'luck.
Mark

On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:24 AM,nezihwrote:


Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcsitlenghtis less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,payingtaxes.MTis capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih<1.jpg>




Hard to beat modern 4 stroke outboards (Honda, Tohatsu, etc.) for fuel economy, serviceability, power to weight ratio and reliability. Also no worries with bilge venting, through hulls and fuel tank placement. Another plus is portability to a different vessel in the future. I run a Tohatsu MFS 20 HP on a 15' Diablo and am quite happy with the quiet, reliable, powerful and efficient performance.  

From:"philbolger@..." <philbolger@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Mon, November 12, 2012 10:10:42 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

For what a Diesel inboard/outboard drive alone costs, the tax-man could be 'greased' for likely a decade or two...

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 12:21 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well I don't agree in principal.  The present day inboard outboards may have problems but there is absolutely no reason why they should be less long lived than an outboard.  The leg and shafting and gears as well as bearings and seals are about the same. The engine being inboard is well protected from the weather and should last longer than one out in the salt spray and rain. If they are less dependable it is because they are flawed not due to any advantage of outboard motors over inboards. I think inboards are the reliable, the easiest to work on big alternators are easily fitted.  A good diesel is infinantly rebuildable. The small volvo in my boat is almost 40 years old. It is saltwater cooled and is still running and dependable.  I would say the difference could be that people don't pull the inboard outboars off and have the underwater seals replaced . With the outboard that is easily done, so to me that means poor maintenance rather than more trouble prone?          Doug  

On 11/12/2012 11:51 AM,philbolger@...wrote:
 

Way too heavy anyway...

Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:22 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

What ever you decide DO NOT USE ASTERNDRIVEINBOARD !!!!  I/O  as they are known in the

USA  are the worst choice for saltwater. I made a poem about them :

 

I O,  IO,-- it will never work you know

It will,you think

and then it sinks

IO ,IO 

Too much to go wrong. Seals ,hydraulics,electrical,linkage,gages and saltwater corrosion and electrolysis. Save your money. In my opinion ,you can't beat a 4 stroke outboard  . The smallest that will give you the performance you desire. Keep it as simple as possible. The main advantage of and outboard is there in nothru- hull fittings to worry about . Most boats sink at their docks with leakingthru- hull fittings. Capt. Rocky

From:"nezih" <gencahm@gmail.com>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:49 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Sir,
Agree with you and I will calculate the weight ofDieelEngine and also shaft angle.
Maybe stern drive inboard is OK.
Thanks
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:43 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well, sir, okay. SoHawkeyeseems one half meter too long. And the photo of Katie Z is irresistible!

Further, I only suggest you watch the diesel's weight and shaft angle carefully.

Besto'luck.
Mark

On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:24 AM,nezihwrote:

 

Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcsitlenghtis less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,paying taxes.MTis capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih<1.jpg>



For what a Diesel inboard/outboard drive alone costs, the tax-man could be 'greased' for likely a decade or two...

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 12:21 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well I don't agree in principal.  The present day inboard outboards may have problems but there is absolutely no reason why they should be less long lived than an outboard.  The leg and shafting and gears as well as bearings and seals are about the same. The engine being inboard is well protected from the weather and should last longer than one out in the salt spray and rain. If they are less dependable it is because they are flawed not due to any advantage of outboard motors over inboards. I think inboards are the reliable, the easiest to work on big alternators are easily fitted.  A good diesel is infinantly rebuildable. The small volvo in my boat is almost 40 years old. It is saltwater cooled and is still running and dependable.  I would say the difference could be that people don't pull the inboard outboars off and have the underwater seals replaced . With the outboard that is easily done, so to me that means poor maintenance rather than more trouble prone?          Doug  

On 11/12/2012 11:51 AM,philbolger@...wrote:
 

Way too heavy anyway...

Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:22 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

What ever you decide DO NOT USE ASTERNDRIVEINBOARD !!!!  I/O  as they are known in the

USA  are the worst choice for saltwater. I made a poem about them :

 

I O,  IO,-- it will never work you know

It will,you think

and then it sinks

IO ,IO 

Too much to go wrong. Seals ,hydraulics,electrical,linkage,gages and saltwater corrosion and electrolysis. Save your money. In my opinion ,you can't beat a 4 stroke outboard  . The smallest that will give you the performance you desire. Keep it as simple as possible. The main advantage of and outboard is there in nothru- hull fittings to worry about . Most boats sink at their docks with leakingthru- hull fittings. Capt. Rocky

From:"nezih" <gencahm@gmail.com>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:49 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Sir,
Agree with you and I will calculate the weight ofDieelEngine and also shaft angle.
Maybe stern drive inboard is OK.
Thanks
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:43 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well, sir, okay. SoHawkeyeseems one half meter too long. And the photo of Katie Z is irresistible!

Further, I only suggest you watch the diesel's weight and shaft angle carefully.

Besto'luck.
Mark

On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:24 AM,nezihwrote:

 

Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcsitlenghtis less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,paying taxes.MT is capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih<1.jpg>


Well I don't agree in principal.  The present day inboard outboards may have problems but there is absolutely no reason why they should be less long lived than an outboard.  The leg and shafting and gears as well as bearings and seals are about the same. The engine being inboard is well protected from the weather and should last longer than one out in the salt spray and rain. If they are less dependable it is because they are flawed not due to any advantage of outboard motors over inboards. I think inboards are the reliable, the easiest to work on big alternators are easily fitted.  A good diesel is infinantly rebuildable. The small volvo in my boat is almost 40 years old. It is saltwater cooled and is still running and dependable.  I would say the difference could be that people don't pull the inboard outboars off and have the underwater seals replaced . With the outboard that is easily done, so to me that means poor maintenance rather than more trouble prone?          Doug

On 11/12/2012 11:51 AM,philbolger@...wrote:

Way too heavy anyway...

Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:22 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

What ever you decide DO NOT USE ASTERNDRIVEINBOARD !!!!  I/O  as they are known in the

USA  are the worst choice for saltwater. I made a poem about them :

I O,  IO,-- it will never work you know

It will,you think

and then it sinks

IO ,IO

Too much to go wrong. Seals ,hydraulics,electrical,linkage,gages and saltwater corrosion and electrolysis. Save your money. In my opinion ,you can't beat a 4 stroke outboard  . The smallest that will give you the performance you desire. Keep it as simple as possible. The main advantage of and outboard is there in nothru- hull fittings to worry about . Most boats sink at their docks with leakingthru- hull fittings. Capt. Rocky

From:"nezih" <gencahm@gmail.com>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:49 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

Sir,
Agree with you and I will calculate the weight ofDieelEngine and also shaft angle.
Maybe stern drive inboard is OK.
Thanks
Nezih
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:43 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

Well, sir, okay. SoHawkeyeseems one half meter too long. And the photo of Katie Z is irresistible!

Further, I only suggest you watch the diesel's weight and shaft angle carefully.

Besto'luck.
Mark

On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:24 AM,nezihwrote:


Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcsitlenghtis less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,paying taxes.MT is capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih<1.jpg>



Way too heavy anyway...

Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:22 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

What ever you decide DO NOT USE ASTERNDRIVEINBOARD !!!!  I/O  as they are known in the

USA  are the worst choice for saltwater. I made a poem about them :

 

I O,  IO,-- it will never work you know

It will,you think

and then it sinks

IO ,IO 

Too much to go wrong. Seals ,hydraulics,electrical,linkage,gages and saltwater corrosion and electrolysis. Save your money. In my opinion ,you can't beat a 4 stroke outboard  . The smallest that will give you the performance you desire. Keep it as simple as possible. The main advantage of and outboard is there in nothru- hull fittings to worry about . Most boats sink at their docks with leakingthru- hull fittings. Capt. Rocky

From:"nezih" <gencahm@gmail.com>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:49 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Sir,
Agree with you and I will calculate the weight ofDieelEngine and also shaft angle.
Maybe stern drive inboard is OK.
Thanks
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:43 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well, sir, okay. SoHawkeyeseems one half meter too long. And the photo of Katie Z is irresistible!

Further, I only suggest you watch the diesel's weight and shaft angle carefully.

Besto'luck.
Mark

On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:24 AM,nezihwrote:

 

Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcsitlenghtis less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,paying taxes.MT is capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih<1.jpg>


What ever you decide DO NOT USE ASTERNDRIVEINBOARD !!!!  I/O  as they are known in the

USA  are the worst choice for saltwater. I made a poem about them :

 

I O,  IO,-- it will never work you know

It will,you think

and then it sinks

IO ,IO 

Too much to go wrong. Seals ,hydraulics,electrical,linkage,gages and saltwater corrosion and electrolysis. Save your money. In my opinion ,you can't beat a 4 stroke outboard  . The smallest that will give you the performance you desire. Keep it as simple as possible. The main advantage of and outboard is there in nothru- hull fittings to worry about . Most boats sink at their docks with leakingthru- hull fittings. Capt. Rocky

From:"nezih" <gencahm@gmail.com>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent:Monday, November 12, 2012 11:03:49 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Sir,
Agree with you and I will calculate the weight ofDieelEngine and also shaft angle.
Maybe stern drive inboard is OK.
Thanks
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:43 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well, sir, okay. SoHawkeyeseems one half meter too long. And the photo of Katie Z is irresistible!

Further, I only suggest you watch the diesel's weight and shaft angle carefully.

Besto'luck.
Mark

On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:24 AM,nezihwrote:

 

Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcsitlenghtis less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,paying taxes.MT is capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih<1.jpg>


Sir,
Agree with you and I will calculate the weight of Dieel Engine and also shaft angle.
Maybe stern drive inboard is OK.
Thanks
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:43 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Well, sir, okay. So Hawkeye seems one half meter too long. And the photo of Katie Z is irresistible!

Further, I only suggest you watch the diesel's weight and shaft angle carefully.

Best o' luck.
Mark

On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:24 AM, nezih wrote:

 

Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcs it lenght is less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,paying taxes.MT is capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih<1.jpg>


Looking at the Bosporus right through Istanbul we'd find 8+kts of current.  And the Sea of Marmara seems large enough to likely suggest keeping relative seaworthiness in mind.  Very interesting, historic waters, full of large-ship commercial and naval traffic connecting the two large seas, with lots of ferries and working-craft running every which way and thus rich in opportunities for adventure and of course challenges.  Hard to resist. 

But should the tax-man dictate the geometry of an easily-built low-power boat to be part of this large and fast-paced traffic-pattern ?

Balancing priorities... ?!

Susanne Altenburger, PB&F
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:28 PM
Subject:Re: [bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Nezih,
   I once had the chance to visit Istanbul for just a few days and never forgot it, including a Sight-Seeing tour around the Golden Horn.  Very intense and distinct experience of indeed 'Orient' meeting 'Occident' in this old and important city.  

How much does the annual tax on boats above the 5m mark really cost you ?
MICROTRAWLER is designed for planing with at least light outboard 50HP - versus either much heavier inboard diesel-power for the same speed or no speed at the same weight incl. gearbox, prop, rudder etc.  I do not recollect the current through the Marmara Strait but the Black and Mediterranean connect there with likely things getting 'lively on occasion, if not every 6.3hrs.  So you'd need light-weight/OB speed ?

Do they tax the boat-hull on the trailer ? 
Is it trailer-/marina-length or overall length running ?
And could you have a folding bow to make her longer once she is in the water.  

Accepting the extra 1m of length in taxes, a simple powersharpie of say 20-feet and 5-6 feet of width with a 10hp outboard might still be cheaper overall than a short wide horsepower-hungry hull that has no seriously useable cabin - even to just take a nap - but saves some money on taxes.  Such a hull will not weigh more than a short wide dense MT.  And that hull would look as good/'cute' as MT....  But not quite as easy to park - unless we fold the bow up when she is on the trailer...

Options, calculations, decision...
Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
 
----- Original Message -----
From:nezih
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:35 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Thanks for your diesel engine confirmation.Bcs they are safe and cheap fuel facility and long run,even in hot weather.
I am from Turkey,Istanbul and climate is stable,except 1 or 2 weeks stromy weather.During the summer time,temparature
is approximately 28-35 celsius degreeand we do not have big storms like USA.There is one inland sea(sea of Marmara)
and MT is quite suitable.Off course,Bosphourus is a narrow strait(lenght 15 kilometers,width 600-800 meters).
Kindly inform you that,your below comments has been dully noted.I will take care of them.
 
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:33 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 


Nezih,
Ah yes, inboard air cooled diesel! Much safer in enclosing a diesel versus a gasoline powered engine. Should be very economical to run compared to gas. I also understand your desire to use the smaller MT versus a larger Hawkeye design; here in the US, in my home state of NJ, boat registration fees are also set by the length of the boat. It sounds like you are going to have one interesting MT when she is done! At this time the only thing I may suggest is giving the engine good ventilation, with possible consideration in mounting the engine intake high (possibly via pipe as high as the cabin or thereabouts) to avoid any chance of water intrusion into the air intake of your engine. A good and sturdy, watertight engine box should be considered, too. I am not sure what the climate is like in your Med. area, here in the Northeast US, weather systems are constantly changing, bringing weather from absolute calm, to violent thunderstorms in the spring and summer, hurricanes in the fall and strong northwesteries in the winter. A nice, weather tight cabin is a definite plus along with proper enclosures for inboard boat engines.

Well, sir, okay. So Hawkeye seems one half meter too long. And the photo of Katie Z is irresistible!
Further, I only suggest you watch the diesel's weight and shaft angle carefully.

Best o' luck.
Mark

On Nov 11, 2012, at 4:24 AM, nezih wrote:

 

Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcs it lenght is less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,paying taxes.MT is capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih<1.jpg>


Nezih,
   I once had the chance to visit Istanbul for just a few days and never forgot it, including a Sight-Seeing tour around the Golden Horn.  Very intense and distinct experience of indeed 'Orient' meeting 'Occident' in this old and important city.  

How much does the annual tax on boats above the 5m mark really cost you ?
MICROTRAWLER is designed for planing with at least light outboard 50HP - versus either much heavier inboard diesel-power for the same speed or no speed at the same weight incl. gearbox, prop, rudder etc.  I do not recollect the current through the Marmara Strait but the Black and Mediterranean connect there with likely things getting 'lively on occasion, if not every 6.3hrs.  So you'd need light-weight/OB speed ?

Do they tax the boat-hull on the trailer ? 
Is it trailer-/marina-length or overall length running ?
And could you have a folding bow to make her longer once she is in the water.  

Accepting the extra 1m of length in taxes, a simple powersharpie of say 20-feet and 5-6 feet of width with a 10hp outboard might still be cheaper overall than a short wide horsepower-hungry hull that has no seriously useable cabin - even to just take a nap - but saves some money on taxes.  Such a hull will not weigh more than a short wide dense MT.  And that hull would look as good/'cute' as MT....  But not quite as easy to park - unless we fold the bow up when she is on the trailer...

Options, calculations, decision...
Susanne Altenburger, Phil Bolger & Friends
 
----- Original Message -----
From:nezih
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:35 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

Thanks for your diesel engine confirmation.Bcs they are safe and cheap fuel facility and long run,even in hot weather.
I am from Turkey,Istanbul and climate is stable,except 1 or 2 weeks stromy weather.During the summer time,temparature
is approximately 28-35 celsius degreeand we do not have big storms like USA.There is one inland sea(sea of Marmara)
and MT is quite suitable.Off course,Bosphourus is a narrow strait(lenght 15 kilometers,width 600-800 meters).
Kindly inform you that,your below comments has been dully noted.I will take care of them.
 
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:33 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 


Nezih,
Ah yes, inboard air cooled diesel! Much safer in enclosing a diesel versus a gasoline powered engine. Should be very economical to run compared to gas. I also understand your desire to use the smaller MT versus a larger Hawkeye design; here in the US, in my home state of NJ, boat registration fees are also set by the length of the boat. It sounds like you are going to have one interesting MT when she is done! At this time the only thing I may suggest is giving the engine good ventilation, with possible consideration in mounting the engine intake high (possibly via pipe as high as the cabin or thereabouts) to avoid any chance of water intrusion into the air intake of your engine. A good and sturdy, watertight engine box should be considered, too. I am not sure what the climate is like in your Med. area, here in the Northeast US, weather systems are constantly changing, bringing weather from absolute calm, to violent thunderstorms in the spring and summer, hurricanes in the fall and strong northwesteries in the winter. A nice, weather tight cabin is a definite plus along with proper enclosures for inboard boat engines.

Thanks for your diesel engine confirmation.Bcs they are safe and cheap fuel facility and long run,even in hot weather.
I am from Turkey,Istanbul and climate is stable,except 1 or 2 weeks stromy weather.During the summer time,temparature
is approximately 28-35 celsius degreeand we do not have big storms like USA.There is one inland sea(sea of Marmara)
and MT is quite suitable.Off course,Bosphourus is a narrow strait(lenght 15 kilometers,width 600-800 meters).
Kindly inform you that,your below comments has been dully noted.I will take care of them.
 
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:33 PM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 


Nezih,
Ah yes, inboard air cooled diesel! Much safer in enclosing a diesel versus a gasoline powered engine. Should be very economical to run compared to gas. I also understand your desire to use the smaller MT versus a larger Hawkeye design; here in the US, in my home state of NJ, boat registration fees are also set by the length of the boat. It sounds like you are going to have one interesting MT when she is done! At this time the only thing I may suggest is giving the engine good ventilation, with possible consideration in mounting the engine intake high (possibly via pipe as high as the cabin or thereabouts) to avoid any chance of water intrusion into the air intake of your engine. A good and sturdy, watertight engine box should be considered, too. I am not sure what the climate is like in your Med. area, here in the Northeast US, weather systems are constantly changing, bringing weather from absolute calm, to violent thunderstorms in the spring and summer, hurricanes in the fall and strong northwesteries in the winter. A nice, weather tight cabin is a definite plus along with proper enclosures for inboard boat engines.

Nezih,
Ah yes, inboard air cooled diesel! Much safer in enclosing a diesel versus a gasoline powered engine. Should be very economical to run compared to gas. I also understand your desire to use the smaller MT versus a larger Hawkeye design; here in the US, in my home state of NJ, boat registration fees are also set by the length of the boat. It sounds like you are going to have one interesting MT when she is done! At this time the only thing I may suggest is giving the engine good ventilation, with possible consideration in mounting the engine intake high (possibly via pipe as high as the cabin or thereabouts) to avoid any chance of water intrusion into the air intake of your engine. A good and sturdy, watertight engine box should be considered, too. I am not sure what the climate is like in your Med. area, here in the Northeast US, weather systems are constantly changing, bringing weather from absolute calm, to violent thunderstorms in the spring and summer, hurricanes in the fall and strong northwesteries in the winter. A nice, weather tight cabin is a definite plus along with proper enclosures for inboard boat engines.
Dear Mr.Mark,
Thanks for your below comments.You know why I want to build MT?Bcs it lenght is less than five metric meters.
In my country,boat owners,more than five meters,paying taxes.MT is capable for trailer transportation easily and
it is enough for me at he moment(for 62 years old man).It is also easy to maintain it.
I mean,expectations after sixty is not so high!!!
Thanks again
Nezih
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:13 AM
Subject:Re: [bolger] MICRO TRAWLER

 

I'm wondering if you'd be better served by starting with Hawkeye instead. With the flat deck, it seems perfect for any type of house you like, long or short, built up on a box keel motorboat. The standard pilot house is close to what you want already. Building your nice, canted windscreen version may be simplified.


Since many people always seem to need a larger boat anyway, you'd already have one.

BW
Mark


On Nov 10, 2012, at 2:43 AM, nezih wrote:

 

I intend to build Bolger Micro Trawler and want to make some modifications.
1-One friend builded MT without rear Cabin.OK.Att.two picture of it(Grebe5 and 7).Can I install one aircooled
   inboard engine at the middle of the rear side?
2-Instead of rear cabin,can I build one cabin at front,like the attached picture(15 Ft STB_CUTAWAY)?
 
Valuable ideas are highly appreciated.
 
Regards
Nezih


Sir,
Thanks for your below comments.For engine,I am agree with you.I am from one of the Mediterrenaen countries,standards are not
so high.So Indoor engine installation will not be a big problem for standards.Offcourse it is necessary fo security.I think to install
one Diesel,air cooled engine.Offcourse ventilation and air intake standards will be applied.Generally,what we are doing in hot summer time.
When the engine heat is up,we take off the Engine cover for more air ventilation and more air intake.Besides,half of the engine will be over
the rear deck.So it will be easy to do an operation like this.In order to eliminate fuel vapors,I can install the fuel tank at the open cockpit,at the
rear side.I really thank you very much for your kind comments.I will take into consideration during the building of MT.
Pls find attached another two pictures,builded without the sleeping quarters area.It seems beatiful.
Nezih
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent:Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:42 AM
Subject:[bolger] Re: MICRO TRAWLER

 

The Microtrawler Grebe was a nice build project documented at Duckworks Magazine. She started life as a standard MT but the owner cut back the sleeping quarters area to open up that space on deck for the grand kids to roam about. The third photo looks like a variation of the Berkeley Eastman Can-Du EZ mini-tug, albeit with a western style slanted fwd windshield. I really see an inboard engine creating more design issues that an outboard mounted engine eliminates, but in the end, it is your own interpretation of the design that counts. As long as all installed engine systems are per standards established by the ABYC and are safe, go for it! As you are probably aware, US Coast Guard and ABYC standards for inboard mounted engines will call for proper engine compartment ventilation, spark arrested air intakes and proper fuel line routing and mounting standards to be followed. Enclosing a gasoline powered engine in an enclosed space creates certain hazards that must be taken into consideration! Fuel vapors collecting in that space and an errant spark can result in tragic circumstances and should not be taken lightly. I like that slanted forward windshield. That style came from the US west coast fishing vessels, where the slanted windshield was found to better shed water. Should be an interesting build, Nezih!

I'm wondering if you'd be better served by starting with Hawkeye instead. With the flat deck, it seems perfect for any type of house you like, long or short, built up on a box keel motorboat. The standard pilot house is close to what you want already. Building your nice, canted windscreen version may be simplified.

Since many people always seem to need a larger boat anyway, you'd already have one.

BW
Mark


On Nov 10, 2012, at 2:43 AM, nezih wrote:

 

I intend to build Bolger Micro Trawler and want to make some modifications.
1-One friend builded MT without rear Cabin.OK.Att.two picture of it(Grebe5 and 7).Can I install one aircooled
   inboard engine at the middle of the rear side?
2-Instead of rear cabin,can I build one cabin at front,like the attached picture(15 Ft STB_CUTAWAY)?
 
Valuable ideas are highly appreciated.
 
Regards
Nezih


The Microtrawler Grebe was a nice build project documented at Duckworks Magazine. She started life as a standard MT but the owner cut back the sleeping quarters area to open up that space on deck for the grand kids to roam about. The third photo looks like a variation of the Berkeley Eastman Can-Du EZ mini-tug, albeit with a western style slanted fwd windshield. I really see an inboard engine creating more design issues that an outboard mounted engine eliminates, but in the end, it is your own interpretation of the design that counts. As long as all installed engine systems are per standards established by the ABYC and are safe, go for it! As you are probably aware, US Coast Guard and ABYC standards for inboard mounted engines will call for proper engine compartment ventilation, spark arrested air intakes and proper fuel line routing and mounting standards to be followed. Enclosing a gasoline powered engine in an enclosed space creates certain hazards that must be taken into consideration! Fuel vapors collecting in that space and an errant spark can result in tragic circumstances and should not be taken lightly. I like that slanted forward windshield. That style came from the US west coast fishing vessels, where the slanted windshield was found to better shed water. Should be an interesting build, Nezih!
I intend to build Bolger Micro Trawler and want to make some modifications.
1-One friend builded MT without rear Cabin.OK.Att.two picture of it(Grebe5 and 7).Can I install one aircooled
   inboard engine at the middle of the rear side?
2-Instead of rear cabin,can I build one cabin at front,like the attached picture(15 Ft STB_CUTAWAY)?
 
Valuable ideas are highly appreciated.
 
Regards
Nezih
Hi
Does anyone have an email address for Common Sense Boats & Books.
I place and order for Micro Trawler but have not received a response.


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