Re: two modifications of Micro rig?

Hey, just noticed that reaching spinnaker on the bow tabernacle
upgrade plans Nels filed. Any ideas on how big it is, and whether it
could be flown from the standard sharpie mainsail mast (also in the
tabernacle mod)?


Graeme

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
> >
> > > There's no specific mention of a sail track, though.
> >
> > Look on drawing sheet 5 of 5, right hand side.
> >
>
> Also Daniel do you have the latest upgrades to the Micro plans?

> I posted some scans showing the modifications at Bolger4 a couple
> years ago.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/MICRO%20NAVIGATOR/
>
> Nels
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "danieljamesstewart4" <stewartd@...> wrote:

> --I'm also thinking of building the mast as a tabernacle so it can be
> stepped more easily. Again, has anyone tried this?

Hi Dan

Our Micro has a tabernacled main mast, "owner designed" rather than
built to Phil and Susanne's design. Susanne's seen pictures, and only
had nice things to say, although I should be absolutely clear that I'm
not suggesting that she or Phil endorse my fooling around.
Anyway, it works fine. I did the DIY thing partly because the PB&F
designed tabernacle changed the sail balance and implied a revised
mizzen. DIY kept the sails we already had.

The main advantage of the tabernacle is not that it is easier than
stepping the main in the original manner [although it can be when the
wind gets up] but rather that the tabernacled version is a lot quicker
to deploy from a trailer. Before, we carried the masts in stubby
gallows while on the road, and at the ramp the masts had to be lifted
clear, the gallows removed , the tiedowns disposed of, the masts
stepped, blah, blah. Now, the mizzen straps to the main while
travelling, and at the ramp the main can be swung into position in a
blink. All the cordage associated with our gaff rig remains connected.

cheers
Derek
Dan, I think it goes with the calaber of people that
build their own boats or airplanes for that matter.
When you set out to build something like then you are
always going to have questions and no one of us is as
smart as all of us together!

I too have been on a number of lists and the boat
building groups and the aircraft building groupes have
been the most helpful all around.

The one thing both tend to live by "There is no dumb
question. The only dumb question is the one never
asked and should have been."

I also have to pipe up here and say Thank You all for
being so helpful and putting up with me.

Blessing to all
Krissie

--- danieljamesstewart4 <stewartd@...> wrote:

> Despite the injunction against the "Thanks Bruce,
> regards, Dan" sort
> of post, let me say that I have been around the
> internet for almost
> 20 years and you crowd are the most helpful and
> courteous members of
> a mailing list I have yet encountered (nevermind my
> dumb questions).
> What nice people you are!
>
> So, regards,
>
> Dan
>




____________________________________________________________________________________
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Despite the injunction against the "Thanks Bruce, regards, Dan" sort
of post, let me say that I have been around the internet for almost
20 years and you crowd are the most helpful and courteous members of
a mailing list I have yet encountered (nevermind my dumb questions).
What nice people you are!

So, regards,

Dan

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> > Also Daniel do you have the latest upgrades to the Micro plans?
> >
> > They include, a tabernacled mainmast and a different bow design
> > including anti-slap pad. These upgrades are included in the
Micro
> > Navigator upgrade plans, but also apply to the standard version.
>
>
> I think Daniel is thinking of the sprit rig. The 'upgrade'
> tabernacle is for the Navigator rig, and moves the mast forward. I
> d
> Also Daniel do you have the latest upgrades to the Micro plans?
>
> They include, a tabernacled mainmast and a different bow design
> including anti-slap pad. These upgrades are included in the Micro
> Navigator upgrade plans, but also apply to the standard version.


I think Daniel is thinking of the sprit rig. The 'upgrade'
tabernacle is for the Navigator rig, and moves the mast forward. I
don't think it would be wise to mix the two without consulting with
PB&F to get a new balanced shape to cut the sprit mainsail.

Also, owning one, I favor the navigator rig only because it is
essential to allow the sailing from within the inside of the excellent
navigator cabin. A micro navigator has no cockpit.

I think Daniel is leaning towards the cuddy version, and that would
indicate the use of the vastly simpler sprit rig.

Personally, I don't really find that stepping and unstepping the main
mast is all that hard, because by standing on top of the cabin one has
an excellent angle to balance point and handle it all. What I do find
to be hard to do is to keep the rather large tangle of lines straight
when the mast is horizontal. Be aware that the jaws from the boom,
three battens and gaff all need to be eased off the mast to allow the
mast to swing down on the tabernacle. In my experience, it is the
loose jaws that contribute to the tangle.

The other thing that makes for tangle is that I have chosen (found
necessary) to use a double part for the jaw halyard and both the
topping lifts. I therefore have six runs of lines for the topping
lift (up, down, up) x 2 and three runs for the jaw halyard (up, down,
up) and two for the peak halyard (up, down), plus the vang line to get
in the mix. Plus, there are four fairly complex runs of line for the
reefing. 17 parts of line at the mast. (And, don't forget the lines,
sheets, and sheetlets aft) Compare this with the MUCH simpler sprit
rig.

Not that I am not happy with my navigator rig, I am very much
(extremely) happy with my navigator cabin, and the complex rig is
therefore necessary. Once it is built and once the initial set up is
over, the complexity of the rig is not nearly so overwhelming.
There's a good clear photo taken off the starboard bow of Roger
Keyes' Paloma Blanca at p26 of "cruising helmsman" this month.
Pilothouse, twin snotters, and assorted other accoutrements are
visible, and, of course, he's moving well off the Southern Ocean
coast. The pic is similar to those in files, but is probably taken
at much closer range.

The photo illustrates Roger's recounted experience with the Micro in
a broader article on how to gain low cost entry to the cruising
lifestyle.
http://www.yaffa.com.au/mags/crhmag.htm


Graeme


--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
> >
> > > There's no specific mention of a sail track, though.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> > There's no specific mention of a sail track, though.
>
> Look on drawing sheet 5 of 5, right hand side.
>

Also Daniel do you have the latest upgrades to the Micro plans?

They include, a tabernacled mainmast and a different bow design
including anti-slap pad. These upgrades are included in the Micro
Navigator upgrade plans, but also apply to the standard version.

If you are working from older plans, the upgrade is available for
$50 I believe. You might also want to consider the foward hatch
arrangement suggested on the upgrade, since the tabernacled mast is
further forward giving more space in the forward well.

I posted some scans showing the modifications at Bolger4 a couple
years ago.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4/files/MICRO%20NAVIGATOR/

Nels
Hello,
I could be completely mistaken in this case, but I thought those
small bolger boats of that era with the cat yawl sprit rig were
supposed to leave the sail set on the mast while in service, and were
laced to the mast. The sail was to be stowed or furled by rolling it
up from the clew to the mast. If a reef is considered necessary it
would be a vertical reef taking up to the mast, almost a brail. By
letting the sheet go this should be not very difficult, assuming the
reef lacing is in place and ready. There should be no problem with
the snotter that I can see with this system, but I have not actually
used it so would happily defer to someone who has.
JG

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, John Bell <smallboatdesigner@...>
wrote:
>
> If I recall correctly, the building key for Micro calls for a sail
> track. I had a Micro mainsail for a while that had the slugs for a
sail
> track, as well.
>
>
> danieljamesstewart4 wrote:
> > I'm in the planning stages preparing to build a Micro and I have
two
> > questions for my first post to this group?
> >
> > --Is there any reason why I couldn't put a sail track on the mast
of
> > the spritsail rig. This would allow reefing the main without
> > interference from the snotter (I know that a halyard and some
kind of
> > outhaul will be needed). Has anybody tried this with one of
Bolger's
> > rigs?
> >
> > --I'm also thinking of building the mast as a tabernacle so it
can be
> > stepped more easily. Again, has anyone tried this?
> >
> > Thanks for any comments or suggestions.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
"danieljamesstewart4" <stewartd@...> wrote:
>
> --I'm also thinking of building the mast as a tabernacle so it can be
> stepped more easily. Again, has anyone tried this?

If by "anyone" you mean "PCB", then the answer would be yes. :-) The
updated Micro II (contact PCB&F for update sheet) has a tabernacle
standard, and swaps out the leg o'mutton main for a Chinese gaff. The
tabernacle mast is set forward of the old bow, so there might be a tiny
bit of adaptation necessary to get the old sails to balance just right
with the new mast location -- PCB would know, and the effect ought to
be tiny.

--
Susan Davis <futabachan@...>
Dan,
I am currently building a Long Micro, and the plans call for 5/8 inch
"T" sail track. The same should be fine for your Micro, as others
have noted.

In regards to a mast tabernacle, Jason Stancil built a micro-like
/navigator-like boat a few years ago, with a mast tabernacle. There
are some large pictures of his boat hiding in the files (not photos)
section of Bolger 6. Worth a look. Jim Michalak's newsletter had a
good article on mast tabernacles a while back. You can find a link to
his newsletter from the Duckworks magazine website. Both are
excellent resources. My advice? Consider any modifications very
carefully- but build what you want.

Bill, LM builder, in Ohio

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "danieljamesstewart4" <stewartd@...> wrote:
>
> I'm in the planning stages preparing to build a Micro and I have two
> questions for my first post to this group?
>
> --Is there any reason why I couldn't put a sail track on the mast of
> the spritsail rig. This would allow reefing the main without
> interference from the snotter (I know that a halyard and some kind of
> outhaul will be needed). Has anybody tried this with one of Bolger's
> rigs?
>
> --I'm also thinking of building the mast as a tabernacle so it can be
> stepped more easily. Again, has anyone tried this?
>
> Thanks for any comments or suggestions.
>
> Dan
>
Also interesting, PCB notes that the mast wood, if scarfed, should not
be less than 7:1.

Considering that the 'conventional wisdom' is that 8:1 scarfs are a
minimum, (and at times you see people doing 12:1), for PCB to spec' a
7:1 just reinforces the understanding that the Micro is intended to be
all around simple, easy and low stress.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:

Hey, that's what that little sqiggly thing is. Dang. Why didn't I see
that? I'm going to start soon also. I think it say's 5/8 track, yes?
Thanks Bruce. Charles Rouse

>
> > There's no specific mention of a sail track, though.
>
> Look on drawing sheet 5 of 5, right hand side.
>
> There's no specific mention of a sail track, though.

Look on drawing sheet 5 of 5, right hand side.
If I recall correctly, the building key for Micro calls for a sail
track. I had a Micro mainsail for a while that had the slugs for a sail
track, as well.


danieljamesstewart4 wrote:
> I'm in the planning stages preparing to build a Micro and I have two
> questions for my first post to this group?
>
> --Is there any reason why I couldn't put a sail track on the mast of
> the spritsail rig. This would allow reefing the main without
> interference from the snotter (I know that a halyard and some kind of
> outhaul will be needed). Has anybody tried this with one of Bolger's
> rigs?
>
> --I'm also thinking of building the mast as a tabernacle so it can be
> stepped more easily. Again, has anyone tried this?
>
> Thanks for any comments or suggestions.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, John Bell <smallboatdesigner@...> wrote:
>
> If I recall correctly, the building key for Micro calls for a sail
> track. I had a Micro mainsail for a while that had the slugs for a
sail
> track, as well.
>

Not knowing much about spritsail rigs I guess I assumed that they were
all such that the sail was laced to the mast. Looking again at the
Micro building key, it does call for a halyard and that lets out hoops
or lacing with the snotter in the way. There's no specific mention of
a sail track, though. Perhaps it goes without saying.

Thanks again.
> If I recall correctly, the building key for Micro calls for a sail
> track.

The plans call for 5/8" sail track.

To my eye, the Shaefer 184053 5/8" track sold by West Marine is the
right stuff, and not all that expensive.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/71951/0/0/
> Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

After having built more than a few Bolger boats, I have learned the
lesson that, all too often, my 'improvements' to the plans have
unintended consequences. This is even more true with the Bolger boats
which have been built the most (like the Micro). It is hard to
improve on the 'tried and tested' and I suggest you first build the
boat exactly per plans, sail it a bit, and then start to make your
improvements.
I'm in the planning stages preparing to build a Micro and I have two
questions for my first post to this group?

--Is there any reason why I couldn't put a sail track on the mast of
the spritsail rig. This would allow reefing the main without
interference from the snotter (I know that a halyard and some kind of
outhaul will be needed). Has anybody tried this with one of Bolger's
rigs?

--I'm also thinking of building the mast as a tabernacle so it can be
stepped more easily. Again, has anyone tried this?

Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

Dan