Re: [bolger] Re:40 ft Bantam ...was Crazy thought.............
I'm sorry the Bonefish is one of Mr. Bolgers early
designs. It's a 20 odd foot sport fishing boat that is
a power sharpy with a box kell added BUT the aft end
of the keel comes to a point to feed water to the prop
much like a Seabright skiff does.
There is a drawing of the Bonefish in the files I'll
look to see if I can find it for you
I have also thought about how to stiffen the hull as
well and making the hull wider over all say 12 feet
you can make the main hull around 48 inches to use a
full sheet of ply for the bottom and use a couple of
full transverse bulkheads to tie every thing together.
Also the main hull beam of 48 inchs and a WLL of 40
feet would give you a 10 to 1 aspect and I would guess
you would get 2X over the sq. root of the WLL and that
is just over 12 KTs and should make that on about 15
hp per ton. Also the closer to hull speed you get the
more hp you are going to need to make way.
Blessings Krissie
--- hardystein2004 <hardystein2004@...>
wrote:
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designs. It's a 20 odd foot sport fishing boat that is
a power sharpy with a box kell added BUT the aft end
of the keel comes to a point to feed water to the prop
much like a Seabright skiff does.
There is a drawing of the Bonefish in the files I'll
look to see if I can find it for you
I have also thought about how to stiffen the hull as
well and making the hull wider over all say 12 feet
you can make the main hull around 48 inches to use a
full sheet of ply for the bottom and use a couple of
full transverse bulkheads to tie every thing together.
Also the main hull beam of 48 inchs and a WLL of 40
feet would give you a 10 to 1 aspect and I would guess
you would get 2X over the sq. root of the WLL and that
is just over 12 KTs and should make that on about 15
hp per ton. Also the closer to hull speed you get the
more hp you are going to need to make way.
Blessings Krissie
--- hardystein2004 <hardystein2004@...>
wrote:
> Krissy , excuse my ignorance , but what is a____________________________________________________________________________________
> "bonefish ?
>
> Best , H.S
>
>
>
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--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ghartc" <gregg.carlson@...> wrote:
Yes have seen Nigels fast multies they are fascinating craft...
It would be nice to retain that 8 ft beam for the reasons you point
out.
I think also that you are right about the time and materials cost of
multies .
On the other hand , the bantam hulls are not unlike long slender
boxes really , and if you opted for a nice but "workboat" level of
finish it would not have to turn into a five year building
marathon.This boat would be built on a full time basis , or not at
all.
Maybe it doesn`t make that much sense in the end , I still don`t know
really.
Best , H.S.
>you'd
> As food for thought is nothing else, have you looked at Nigel Irens
> narrow and fast power multihulls?
>
>http://www.nigelirens.demon.co.uk/FRAMEpower.htm
>
> At 40 feet, it seems that you could get plenty of accommodation in
> the center hull, so perhaps the amas don't need to be very large to
> reduce roll. A disadvantage with multihulls is cost in time and
> material - you essentially get to build 2 or 3 boats at once - and
> they can get heavy. But, if you can keep it light, of course the
> extreme slenderness ratio is easily driven.
>
> ...another disadvantage is buying two slips, at least where we sail.
> At 40'x8', it would remain trailerable in the U.S., any more and
> need a folding mechanism.Hi Greg ,
>
> Could you use a pair of tornado hulls, or similar, as amas?
>
> Gregg Carlson
>
>
>
Yes have seen Nigels fast multies they are fascinating craft...
It would be nice to retain that 8 ft beam for the reasons you point
out.
I think also that you are right about the time and materials cost of
multies .
On the other hand , the bantam hulls are not unlike long slender
boxes really , and if you opted for a nice but "workboat" level of
finish it would not have to turn into a five year building
marathon.This boat would be built on a full time basis , or not at
all.
Maybe it doesn`t make that much sense in the end , I still don`t know
really.
Best , H.S.
As food for thought is nothing else, have you looked at Nigel Irens
narrow and fast power multihulls?
http://www.nigelirens.demon.co.uk/FRAMEpower.htm
At 40 feet, it seems that you could get plenty of accommodation in
the center hull, so perhaps the amas don't need to be very large to
reduce roll. A disadvantage with multihulls is cost in time and
material - you essentially get to build 2 or 3 boats at once - and
they can get heavy. But, if you can keep it light, of course the
extreme slenderness ratio is easily driven.
...another disadvantage is buying two slips, at least where we sail.
At 40'x8', it would remain trailerable in the U.S., any more and you'd
need a folding mechanism.
Could you use a pair of tornado hulls, or similar, as amas?
Gregg Carlson
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "hardystein2004" <hardystein2004@...>
narrow and fast power multihulls?
http://www.nigelirens.demon.co.uk/FRAMEpower.htm
At 40 feet, it seems that you could get plenty of accommodation in
the center hull, so perhaps the amas don't need to be very large to
reduce roll. A disadvantage with multihulls is cost in time and
material - you essentially get to build 2 or 3 boats at once - and
they can get heavy. But, if you can keep it light, of course the
extreme slenderness ratio is easily driven.
...another disadvantage is buying two slips, at least where we sail.
At 40'x8', it would remain trailerable in the U.S., any more and you'd
need a folding mechanism.
Could you use a pair of tornado hulls, or similar, as amas?
Gregg Carlson
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "hardystein2004" <hardystein2004@...>
> > PB&F did stretch Bantam from 16 to 20 feet.
> > A river boat? I suspect that a 40 long outboard powered boat in the
> > ocean might have trouble with the motor pitching out in swells. Also,
> > you might need some sort of trick to maneuver it close to a dock, or
> > with side winds, either a retractable fin like with Wyoming, or a poor
> > man's bow thruster like with Illinois.
> >
>
> Hello to you Bruce ,
>
> Yes , this would be a sheltered water boat.
>
> I don`t really know what I could do about the pitching problem ,except
> restrict travel to fair weather days.
>
> I thought I could do what you suggested , a small outboard in the bows
> to help stop the boat blowing away in cross winds during docking.I
> initially thought a larger electric trolling motor may do the job.
> Do you think that a Bantam would blow away easier than the flat
> bottomed power sharpies like Dakota or Whyo ?
>
> Phil hasn`t designed that many multis either power or sail , but I
> really think the Bantam has something , the ownwers of the bantams that
> have been built , all seem happy with their boats.
>
> Best H.S.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
Yes , this would be a sheltered water boat.
I don`t really know what I could do about the pitching problem ,except
restrict travel to fair weather days.
I thought I could do what you suggested , a small outboard in the bows
to help stop the boat blowing away in cross winds during docking.I
initially thought a larger electric trolling motor may do the job.
Do you think that a Bantam would blow away easier than the flat
bottomed power sharpies like Dakota or Whyo ?
Phil hasn`t designed that many multis either power or sail , but I
really think the Bantam has something , the ownwers of the bantams that
have been built , all seem happy with their boats.
Best H.S.
>Hello to you Bruce ,
> >
> PB&F did stretch Bantam from 16 to 20 feet.
>
> A river boat? I suspect that a 40 long outboard powered boat in the
> ocean might have trouble with the motor pitching out in swells. Also,
> you might need some sort of trick to maneuver it close to a dock, or
> with side winds, either a retractable fin like with Wyoming, or a poor
> man's bow thruster like with Illinois.
>
Yes , this would be a sheltered water boat.
I don`t really know what I could do about the pitching problem ,except
restrict travel to fair weather days.
I thought I could do what you suggested , a small outboard in the bows
to help stop the boat blowing away in cross winds during docking.I
initially thought a larger electric trolling motor may do the job.
Do you think that a Bantam would blow away easier than the flat
bottomed power sharpies like Dakota or Whyo ?
Phil hasn`t designed that many multis either power or sail , but I
really think the Bantam has something , the ownwers of the bantams that
have been built , all seem happy with their boats.
Best H.S.
Krissy , excuse my ignorance , but what is a "bonefish ?
Best , H.S
Best , H.S
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
This boat would be intended for Australia`s east coast , coastal
hopping along the eastern estuaries and rivers.
My thought was that rather than build a flat bottomed power sharpie
such as the Dakota , or Whyoming or even Mark Van Abbema`s 40 footer ,
a blown up or stretched version of the Bantem would perhaps be a
little
kinder to its occupants on the occasional choppy days .
This boat would always be intended for fair weather and sheltered
waters . No real open ocean passages .
To that end , I thought if the three hulls could be strengthened
someway , they could act as longitudinal box beams to stiffen the
structure along its length.
The torsional athwardship stresses would need more careful
consideration , and I thought such a boat could be suitably
strengthened with strategically placed bulkheads .Maybe even a centre
cockpit arrangement. Two short bridgedecks at both ends of the
cockpit would help stiffen things up.
I had not thought about scaling Krissy , my initial thoughts were
just to lengthen the Bantam using the existing beam .Your 150 %
scaling idea would improve the boat considerably .Additional bridge
deck clearance would very much improve the whole craft , no doubt
about it.
I recall reading that someone did stretch a Bantam to 29 ft in your
country somewhere.I did receive an email from John Bartlett , the
gentleman who stretched his to 26 ft. John lengthened the hulls
after he built it to Phil`s plan.The bottom ends of the hulls were
brought up to the stern as a displacement hull , it improved what
little there was in stern wake.This all at displacement speeds of
course. He says the boat rides better after he added foam to the
hulls , giving a double bottom.
Thanks again for the reply , I have much to think over ....:}
>Hello Krissy , and thank you for your reply.
> Why should we shoot you down? Sounds to me like a good
> plan. .....
This boat would be intended for Australia`s east coast , coastal
hopping along the eastern estuaries and rivers.
My thought was that rather than build a flat bottomed power sharpie
such as the Dakota , or Whyoming or even Mark Van Abbema`s 40 footer ,
a blown up or stretched version of the Bantem would perhaps be a
little
kinder to its occupants on the occasional choppy days .
This boat would always be intended for fair weather and sheltered
waters . No real open ocean passages .
To that end , I thought if the three hulls could be strengthened
someway , they could act as longitudinal box beams to stiffen the
structure along its length.
The torsional athwardship stresses would need more careful
consideration , and I thought such a boat could be suitably
strengthened with strategically placed bulkheads .Maybe even a centre
cockpit arrangement. Two short bridgedecks at both ends of the
cockpit would help stiffen things up.
I had not thought about scaling Krissy , my initial thoughts were
just to lengthen the Bantam using the existing beam .Your 150 %
scaling idea would improve the boat considerably .Additional bridge
deck clearance would very much improve the whole craft , no doubt
about it.
I recall reading that someone did stretch a Bantam to 29 ft in your
country somewhere.I did receive an email from John Bartlett , the
gentleman who stretched his to 26 ft. John lengthened the hulls
after he built it to Phil`s plan.The bottom ends of the hulls were
brought up to the stern as a displacement hull , it improved what
little there was in stern wake.This all at displacement speeds of
course. He says the boat rides better after he added foam to the
hulls , giving a double bottom.
Thanks again for the reply , I have much to think over ....:}
>PB&F did stretch Bantam from 16 to 20 feet.
> Hello all
>
> I`m planning my retirement boat , and this may be totally crazy ,
> but ....
>
> A Bolger Bantam . 40 ft long
A river boat? I suspect that a 40 long outboard powered boat in the
ocean might have trouble with the motor pitching out in swells. Also,
you might need some sort of trick to maneuver it close to a dock, or
with side winds, either a retractable fin like with Wyoming, or a poor
man's bow thruster like with Illinois.
Why should we shoot you down? Sounds to me like a good
plan. Myself I like the idea of a power catamaran. The
Bantam style of boat would work well in sheltered
waters. But a couple of questions need to be asked and
answered.
Are you planing to enlarge the whole boat by the power
of 2 or were you just thinking of making it 40 feet
long?
If you just make it just 40 feet long you are going to
put some hight torsional loads on the hull when you
are in a quartering sea. But if you scale up the hulls
to 150% in size. This would give you deeper hull sides
in the main hull and makes it easer to control the
twisting of the hull in a seaway. Then go to your 40
feet you would have a lot more room to work with. And
the space to put an inboard motor so you can run shaft
and gear.
If you make the center hull aft end like the Bonefish
you would be able to work in shole waters with out to
much worry about wompping the prop.
I do know one of the guys on the list has a Bantam and
I think he ended up making his hulls deeper. So the
wing decks were less likely to slap in a chop.
You will have to work up the numbers for what the hull
will weight when done. Dave Gerr's book The Nature of
Boats gives you a lot of good info. It will tell you
what scantling to use for the hull and how thick to
make the hulls. He also has in there how much most of
the stuff that goes into a boat weights. It also tell
you how to work up your displacement numbers as well.
SO it's time to make two lists, one for the must
haves, and the other the want to have. Then see if you
can get them in the space you have to work with.
Mind you these are just some of my ideas and maybe
they are things to think on as well.
Blessings Kristine
--- hardystein2004 <hardystein2004@...>
wrote:
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in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
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plan. Myself I like the idea of a power catamaran. The
Bantam style of boat would work well in sheltered
waters. But a couple of questions need to be asked and
answered.
Are you planing to enlarge the whole boat by the power
of 2 or were you just thinking of making it 40 feet
long?
If you just make it just 40 feet long you are going to
put some hight torsional loads on the hull when you
are in a quartering sea. But if you scale up the hulls
to 150% in size. This would give you deeper hull sides
in the main hull and makes it easer to control the
twisting of the hull in a seaway. Then go to your 40
feet you would have a lot more room to work with. And
the space to put an inboard motor so you can run shaft
and gear.
If you make the center hull aft end like the Bonefish
you would be able to work in shole waters with out to
much worry about wompping the prop.
I do know one of the guys on the list has a Bantam and
I think he ended up making his hulls deeper. So the
wing decks were less likely to slap in a chop.
You will have to work up the numbers for what the hull
will weight when done. Dave Gerr's book The Nature of
Boats gives you a lot of good info. It will tell you
what scantling to use for the hull and how thick to
make the hulls. He also has in there how much most of
the stuff that goes into a boat weights. It also tell
you how to work up your displacement numbers as well.
SO it's time to make two lists, one for the must
haves, and the other the want to have. Then see if you
can get them in the space you have to work with.
Mind you these are just some of my ideas and maybe
they are things to think on as well.
Blessings Kristine
--- hardystein2004 <hardystein2004@...>
wrote:
> Hello all____________________________________________________________________________________
>
> I`m planning my retirement boat , and this may be
> totally crazy ,
> but ....
>
> A Bolger Bantam . 40 ft long !!!o.k. I`m ready to be
> shot down in
> flames now....:)
>
> Best H.S.
>
>
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Hello all
I`m planning my retirement boat , and this may be totally crazy ,
but ....
A Bolger Bantam . 40 ft long !!!o.k. I`m ready to be shot down in
flames now....:)
Best H.S.
I`m planning my retirement boat , and this may be totally crazy ,
but ....
A Bolger Bantam . 40 ft long !!!o.k. I`m ready to be shot down in
flames now....:)
Best H.S.