Re: Storm Petrel alternative?

-Hi Matthew,

Since I am currently building PCB's "Old Shoe", guess I should chime
in here. I'm just an average builder and I am finding the shoe to be
enough of a challenge. I suppose it depends on how much you want to
put into it, like anything we do. She is designed for a quick build
with box store materials as a bottom line. I have talked to a few
owners about sailing qualities and all that and have received very
favorable comments. She is a joy to build and sail. Large for a
12ft boat and stable (as such things go). For a day sailor and
occasional camper, she would be just fine, able to beach and sleep
aboard under a tent cover. I am expecting her to be relatively easy
to launch and retrieve. I have just finished my masts and can attest
that they are light enough for a single person to step and unstep. Of
course I have chosen to use Spruce for material and that is some
lighter than fir,etc. For me, I was looking for a stable, easy to
sail, day sailor that I could take from lake to lake during my
leisure retirement years (just a couple of years away folks)and I
found this design to fit the bill for me. She will carry 4 adults
with ease, so I can have crew whenever I want. Primarily, she will
be solo sailed. I am planning to buy a Honda 2hp 4stroke for aux.
I see that you have the link to my web site. I am planning an update
with greater detail into the process of "Mast Making" from a novice
point of view. I think its a good choice and certainly a design to
consider.

Very best to you,

Dennis


-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
<owlnmole@...> wrote:

>
> Thanks, Nels and others, for your comments.
>
> I actually used to have a set of IMB plans but eventually decided

it

> just wasn't the boat for me. The same illogical argument as for AS-
> 19--I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time on money on a boat that

I

> find, shall we say, beauty-challenged.
>
> That's not to say that I don't appreciate Bolger boxes (I have

built

> Brick and June Bug, both squarish to varying degrees.) I'm just

not

> a fan of the Birdwatcher look.
>
> Going back to my files, I do find one boat that I've always liked
> that might well fit the bill and is not too hard to build. If

Micro

> is too big a project, and Storm Petrel doesn't have the safe and
> secure cockpit that we need with the kids, maybe I need an Old Shoe?
>
>http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/browse/7c99
>http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/oldshoe.htm#start
>http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/gatherings/scuzbums/index.htm
>http://www.solopublications.com/saillanc.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Matthew
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
<owlnmole@...> wrote:

> Going back to my files, I do find one boat that I've always liked
> that might well fit the bill and is not too hard to build. If Micro
> is too big a project, and Storm Petrel doesn't have the safe and
> secure cockpit that we need with the kids, maybe I need an Old Shoe?

That has always been a favorite of mine but I think I sold the plans
already to a fellow in Oz.

I think Bolger is planning an upgrade with a removable "Birdwatcher"
style lid - so be forewarned;-)

Nels

Thanks, Nels and others, for your comments.

I actually used to have a set of IMB plans but eventually decided it
just wasn't the boat for me. The same illogical argument as for AS-
19--I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time on money on a boat that I
find, shall we say, beauty-challenged.

That's not to say that I don't appreciate Bolger boxes (I have built
Brick and June Bug, both squarish to varying degrees.) I'm just not
a fan of the Birdwatcher look.

Going back to my files, I do find one boat that I've always liked
that might well fit the bill and is not too hard to build. If Micro
is too big a project, and Storm Petrel doesn't have the safe and
secure cockpit that we need with the kids, maybe I need an Old Shoe?

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/browse/7c99
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/oldshoe.htm#start
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/gatherings/scuzbums/index.htm
http://www.solopublications.com/saillanc.html

Regards,

Matthew

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
<owlnmole@...> wrote:

>
> So quick and easy too build, not too expensive, and not too hard

to explain (so hopefully

> someone will buy it from me) are all important factors.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Matthew

As much as I admire Storm Petrel, it would not serve you all that
well as a "family boat" in my opinion.

Two beach cruisers I really admire are Jim Michalaks IMB design:

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/imb2/index.htm

And Mike Mulcahy's version of Philsboat of which an article is
written in Duckworks e-zine:

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/projects/philsboat/index.htm

What I like about these boats is the shelter they provide from rain
and bugs and sun, along with full headroom when the slot top is
open. They can handle a 90 degree knockdown if the waves aren't too
large. They are very simple to build. Easy to tow, and you can step
ashore over the bow. You can build your own sail, following Jim's
instructions.

From a review of the links you will observe that both boats can
carry four adults with no problem, safely inside. The IMB is a pram
which may not look as "conventional", although it has the advantage
of being easier to step ashore from the bow than the Philsboat.

However the pointy bow of the Philsboat is much more "conventional"
looking especially with the cabin modifications Mike made with the
sloped aft forward cabin. And he is really pleased with junk sail
rig.

I think it would "sell itself" if you took a potential buyer out for
a sail in it.

They are essentailly beach cruisers and not off-shore capable
however.

Another design, very similar to Storm Petrel is called "Twister",
named for having some "twist" incorporated in the foreward bottom
panels giving it a vee shaped entry which is swept upward aft to a
wider transom which improves its motoring capabilites over
conventional flat bottomed designs.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/twister/index.htm

The reason I mention Jim's designs is that I feel he has kept his
designs very basic - like PCB used to:-)

Nels

I see now. You need a disposable boat. You've built a Brick before, why not
build two and if you're really feeling energetic, build Grout and have a
double Brick schooner. If you that route you won't have much time invested
even in building three hulls so that walking away in two and a half years
won't be as painful.

On 4/9/07, The Peillet-Long Family <owlnmole@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks John, Dennis and Graeme for your thoughts, but I forgot to mention
> some important
> factors.
>
> My family and I are in Tunisia now, but only for three years, and the
> first year is 2/3 done. By
> the time we leave here, my work will have taken us three continents in
> eight years, plus
> around six months back in the U.S. between posts.
>
> Next we could move a few hundred miles, or several thousand, and Uncle Sam
> doesn't ship
> boats with the household effects, not even a canoe. I checked, though you
> could probably
> get away with something folding or inflatable.
>
> So quick and easy too build, not too expensive, and not too hard to
> explain (so hopefully
> someone will buy it from me) are all important factors.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Matthew
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have seen small boats sent as planters. I don't think you could sell a
Birdwatcher that way however.

HJ

The Peillet-Long Family wrote:

> Thanks John, Dennis and Graeme for your thoughts, but I forgot to mention some important
> factors.
>
> My family and I are in Tunisia now, but only for three years, and the first year is 2/3 done. By
> the time we leave here, my work will have taken us three continents in eight years, plus
> around six months back in the U.S. between posts.
>
> Next we could move a few hundred miles, or several thousand, and Uncle Sam doesn't ship
> boats with the household effects, not even a canoe. I checked, though you could probably
> get away with something folding or inflatable.
>
> So quick and easy too build, not too expensive, and not too hard to explain (so hopefully
> someone will buy it from me) are all important factors.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Matthew
>
>
>
>

Thanks John, Dennis and Graeme for your thoughts, but I forgot to mention some important
factors.

My family and I are in Tunisia now, but only for three years, and the first year is 2/3 done. By
the time we leave here, my work will have taken us three continents in eight years, plus
around six months back in the U.S. between posts.

Next we could move a few hundred miles, or several thousand, and Uncle Sam doesn't ship
boats with the household effects, not even a canoe. I checked, though you could probably
get away with something folding or inflatable.

So quick and easy too build, not too expensive, and not too hard to explain (so hopefully
someone will buy it from me) are all important factors.

Thanks again!

Matthew

--
The Micro sounds like it would be the perfect boat for your needs.
Good sailor, safe, cabin, ballasted keel. Did you say you had plans
for her?

Regards,

Dennis
(currently building the OLD SHOE in Bellingham, WA.)





- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family" <owlnmole@...>
wrote:

>
> Thanks Graeme for the quick reply...it helps tha we're almost in

the

> same time zone!
>
> I am looking at Jim's designs, and in fact I have posted this same
> question on the Michalak Yahoo! Group. Still, while I like a lot

of

> his boats, none quite tickles my fancy like the Storm Petrel.
>
> AS-19 is out for me--I just can't abide the looks. I'm not against
> bow transoms (I've got Micro plans, too!) but AS-19 is just not a
> pretty boat.
>
> Thanks for the Bill McKibben reference, I found a few pics of his
> boat, which gives me some ideas, though I think a more "modern"

style

> would suit Storm Petrel better.
>
> I should probably just build Storm Petrel, as is with no
> modifications, and figure out in practice how to deal with its
> shortcomings. A couple of backrests/rails each side of the

cockpit,

> and maybe a grab rail forward, would give more security. I had

also

> thought of some kind of spray hood over the foredeck. I could

swithc

> the box hatch cover for a flat one and have a sheltered deck area
> forward.
>
> As for the trailering and draft issues, I'm hoping to keep the boat
> in the water, but if trailering became the plan it wouldn't be that
> hard to replace the keel with some (removable) inside ballast and a
> daggerboard or single leeboard.
>
> Thanks again for your comments!
>
> Matthew
>
> PS--One question, could you elaborate on the larger sail plan? I
> haven't heard that before.
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Jim Michalak's slot top cuddy boats like AF3 are great for
> coralling
> > the kids. But you want self-righting so need ballast, or the full
> > Birdwatcher treatment, and JM does a few smaller of those.
> >
> > Of those Bolger ballasted, how about AS-19. Great day-sailing - a
> > sail calculator I was looking at just earlier has it as
> > cruiser/racer, and it's easy reefed - better sized cuddy, much

deck

> > space, easy trailered, easy-easy build. Ballast can be metal or
> > concrete etc. As for kid coralling for AS-19 or Storm Petrel: the
> > 7yr old would love to sit up front in the bow compartment, the

3yr

> > old with the 1 yr old might be contained on the cockpit floor in

a

> > kind of 2x5 play pen, but you could build a crows nest!
> >
> > Not sure how much ply in the AS-19, maybe 14 sheets - about the
> same
> > 13 as Centennial ll, whose cockpit floor may suit the ankle-
> bighters
> > even more.
> >
> > How small is small? PCB saw the Storm Petrel as a family day-

motor-

> > sailer granting peace of mind, and it's economically, quickly
> built.
> > He did a bigger sailplan too. I just don't know about trailering,
> or
> > grounding that keel?
> >
> > Instead of staunchions and life lines you perhaps could fit a
> > balustrade/backrest like Bill McKibben did to his Black Skimmer?
> > Then run some netting along in the space between it and the

gunnels

> > to stop kids slipping through?
> >
> > Graeme
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
> > <owlnmole@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, all! I've been away from the group for a long time, but I

am

> > back with a question.
> > >
> > > My family and I are now living in Tunisia, just minutes from

the

> > Mediterranean, so it goes
> > > without saying that we need a boat. I am looking for the quick
> > solution--a used small
> > > cruising sailboat--but having built a few small Bolger boats I

am

> > also open to a building
> > > project.
> > >
> > > I have been thinking of building a Storm Petrel (see the Files
> > section) and I have had a set
> > > of plans for a few years already, but now I am having second
> > thoughts.
> > >
> > > Our family adventures are likely to be just daysailing, but we
> > want some cabin space for
> > > getting out of the sun and wind, use a porta-potti, etc. Storm
> > Petrel meets that
> > > requirement, just barely, but I am a bit concerned that our

three

> > little kids--ages 7, 3, and
> > > 1-- wouldn't be very well corralled. On the upside, Storm

Petrel

> > is self-righting, the
> > > modest sail plan is likely to keep us out of trouble, and it

only

> > takes 8 sheets of 3/8"
> > > plywood.
> > >
> > > I have been looking for alternatives, but I think I need a

fresh

> > set of eyes. Which designs,
> > > by PCB or others would folks vote for to suit those

requirements-

> -
> > daysail at
> > > least two adults and three kids, some cabin space, motor, at
> least
> > somewhat self-righting?
> > >
> > > Thanks and regards,
> > >
> > > Matthew
> > >
> >
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
<owlnmole@...> wrote:

> AS-19 is out for me--I just can't abide the looks. > Matthew

I hear you, Matthew. Stumpy, but can't help thinking it's just a
matter of paint, then shadow, trim and sheer lines. Anhinga in
profile doesn't look the box it is - a couple of lines... beauty
defines.

> PS--One question, could you elaborate on the larger sail plan? I
> haven't heard that before.

I noticed on Tim's Storm Petrel web page that PCB had, after
recomending Camper without result, supplied a larger lug sail plan
for Storm Petrelhttp://209.193.28.16/Boats/StormPetrel/A couple of
years ago now, I chanced an email to Fritz to ask how the boat had
gone, you know - got a keel? and all. Came the reply graciously, no
fuss, not sure on the keel, and the revised sail was something about
like a Windsprint.

In Tunisia I bet you could get a lot of tips for a racing Storm
Petrel lateen sail! St Tropez is on again this May 13
http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://snst83.nuxit.net/
are the Tunisian pros again contenders? When the nippers are grown a
bit, perhaps a Norway yawl dipping lugsail might suit Storm Petrel
for offshore going?

Cheers
Graeme

Storm Petrel is not a lot of boat for five people, three of whom are going
to triple in size over the next 3-5 years. It sounds to me like you need a
Birdwatcher.

On 4/9/07, The Peillet-Long Family <owlnmole@...> wrote:
>
>
> Our family adventures are likely to be just daysailing, but we want some
> cabin space for
> getting out of the sun and wind, use a porta-potti, etc. Storm Petrel
> meets that
> requirement, just barely, but I am a bit concerned that our three little
> kids--ages 7, 3, and
> 1-- wouldn't be very well corralled. On the upside, Storm Petrel is
> self-righting, the
> modest sail plan is likely to keep us out of trouble, and it only takes 8
> sheets of 3/8"
> plywood.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Graeme for the quick reply...it helps tha we're almost in the
same time zone!

I am looking at Jim's designs, and in fact I have posted this same
question on the Michalak Yahoo! Group. Still, while I like a lot of
his boats, none quite tickles my fancy like the Storm Petrel.

AS-19 is out for me--I just can't abide the looks. I'm not against
bow transoms (I've got Micro plans, too!) but AS-19 is just not a
pretty boat.

Thanks for the Bill McKibben reference, I found a few pics of his
boat, which gives me some ideas, though I think a more "modern" style
would suit Storm Petrel better.

I should probably just build Storm Petrel, as is with no
modifications, and figure out in practice how to deal with its
shortcomings. A couple of backrests/rails each side of the cockpit,
and maybe a grab rail forward, would give more security. I had also
thought of some kind of spray hood over the foredeck. I could swithc
the box hatch cover for a flat one and have a sheltered deck area
forward.

As for the trailering and draft issues, I'm hoping to keep the boat
in the water, but if trailering became the plan it wouldn't be that
hard to replace the keel with some (removable) inside ballast and a
daggerboard or single leeboard.

Thanks again for your comments!

Matthew

PS--One question, could you elaborate on the larger sail plan? I
haven't heard that before.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:

>
> Jim Michalak's slot top cuddy boats like AF3 are great for

coralling

> the kids. But you want self-righting so need ballast, or the full
> Birdwatcher treatment, and JM does a few smaller of those.
>
> Of those Bolger ballasted, how about AS-19. Great day-sailing - a
> sail calculator I was looking at just earlier has it as
> cruiser/racer, and it's easy reefed - better sized cuddy, much deck
> space, easy trailered, easy-easy build. Ballast can be metal or
> concrete etc. As for kid coralling for AS-19 or Storm Petrel: the
> 7yr old would love to sit up front in the bow compartment, the 3yr
> old with the 1 yr old might be contained on the cockpit floor in a
> kind of 2x5 play pen, but you could build a crows nest!
>
> Not sure how much ply in the AS-19, maybe 14 sheets - about the

same

> 13 as Centennial ll, whose cockpit floor may suit the ankle-

bighters

> even more.
>
> How small is small? PCB saw the Storm Petrel as a family day-motor-
> sailer granting peace of mind, and it's economically, quickly

built.

> He did a bigger sailplan too. I just don't know about trailering,

or

> grounding that keel?
>
> Instead of staunchions and life lines you perhaps could fit a
> balustrade/backrest like Bill McKibben did to his Black Skimmer?
> Then run some netting along in the space between it and the gunnels
> to stop kids slipping through?
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
> <owlnmole@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, all! I've been away from the group for a long time, but I am
> back with a question.
> >
> > My family and I are now living in Tunisia, just minutes from the
> Mediterranean, so it goes
> > without saying that we need a boat. I am looking for the quick
> solution--a used small
> > cruising sailboat--but having built a few small Bolger boats I am
> also open to a building
> > project.
> >
> > I have been thinking of building a Storm Petrel (see the Files
> section) and I have had a set
> > of plans for a few years already, but now I am having second
> thoughts.
> >
> > Our family adventures are likely to be just daysailing, but we
> want some cabin space for
> > getting out of the sun and wind, use a porta-potti, etc. Storm
> Petrel meets that
> > requirement, just barely, but I am a bit concerned that our three
> little kids--ages 7, 3, and
> > 1-- wouldn't be very well corralled. On the upside, Storm Petrel
> is self-righting, the
> > modest sail plan is likely to keep us out of trouble, and it only
> takes 8 sheets of 3/8"
> > plywood.
> >
> > I have been looking for alternatives, but I think I need a fresh
> set of eyes. Which designs,
> > by PCB or others would folks vote for to suit those requirements-

-

> daysail at
> > least two adults and three kids, some cabin space, motor, at

least

> somewhat self-righting?
> >
> > Thanks and regards,
> >
> > Matthew
> >
>

Jim Michalak's slot top cuddy boats like AF3 are great for coralling
the kids. But you want self-righting so need ballast, or the full
Birdwatcher treatment, and JM does a few smaller of those.

Of those Bolger ballasted, how about AS-19. Great day-sailing - a
sail calculator I was looking at just earlier has it as
cruiser/racer, and it's easy reefed - better sized cuddy, much deck
space, easy trailered, easy-easy build. Ballast can be metal or
concrete etc. As for kid coralling for AS-19 or Storm Petrel: the
7yr old would love to sit up front in the bow compartment, the 3yr
old with the 1 yr old might be contained on the cockpit floor in a
kind of 2x5 play pen, but you could build a crows nest!

Not sure how much ply in the AS-19, maybe 14 sheets - about the same
13 as Centennial ll, whose cockpit floor may suit the ankle-bighters
even more.

How small is small? PCB saw the Storm Petrel as a family day-motor-
sailer granting peace of mind, and it's economically, quickly built.
He did a bigger sailplan too. I just don't know about trailering, or
grounding that keel?

Instead of staunchions and life lines you perhaps could fit a
balustrade/backrest like Bill McKibben did to his Black Skimmer?
Then run some netting along in the space between it and the gunnels
to stop kids slipping through?

Graeme



--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
<owlnmole@...> wrote:

>
> Hi, all! I've been away from the group for a long time, but I am

back with a question.

>
> My family and I are now living in Tunisia, just minutes from the

Mediterranean, so it goes

> without saying that we need a boat. I am looking for the quick

solution--a used small

> cruising sailboat--but having built a few small Bolger boats I am

also open to a building

> project.
>
> I have been thinking of building a Storm Petrel (see the Files

section) and I have had a set

> of plans for a few years already, but now I am having second

thoughts.

>
> Our family adventures are likely to be just daysailing, but we

want some cabin space for

> getting out of the sun and wind, use a porta-potti, etc. Storm

Petrel meets that

> requirement, just barely, but I am a bit concerned that our three

little kids--ages 7, 3, and

> 1-- wouldn't be very well corralled. On the upside, Storm Petrel

is self-righting, the

> modest sail plan is likely to keep us out of trouble, and it only

takes 8 sheets of 3/8"

> plywood.
>
> I have been looking for alternatives, but I think I need a fresh

set of eyes. Which designs,

> by PCB or others would folks vote for to suit those requirements--

daysail at

> least two adults and three kids, some cabin space, motor, at least

somewhat self-righting?

>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Matthew
>

Hi, all! I've been away from the group for a long time, but I am back with a question.

My family and I are now living in Tunisia, just minutes from the Mediterranean, so it goes
without saying that we need a boat. I am looking for the quick solution--a used small
cruising sailboat--but having built a few small Bolger boats I am also open to a building
project.

I have been thinking of building a Storm Petrel (see the Files section) and I have had a set
of plans for a few years already, but now I am having second thoughts.

Our family adventures are likely to be just daysailing, but we want some cabin space for
getting out of the sun and wind, use a porta-potti, etc. Storm Petrel meets that
requirement, just barely, but I am a bit concerned that our three little kids--ages 7, 3, and
1-- wouldn't be very well corralled. On the upside, Storm Petrel is self-righting, the
modest sail plan is likely to keep us out of trouble, and it only takes 8 sheets of 3/8"
plywood.

I have been looking for alternatives, but I think I need a fresh set of eyes. Which designs,
by PCB or others would folks vote for to suit those requirements--daysail at
least two adults and three kids, some cabin space, motor, at least somewhat self-righting?

Thanks and regards,

Matthew