Re: June Bug squared?
Hi Matthew,
...snip...
the concept. I think two Michalak Piragua 18s would make great amas
for a Zephyr trimaran. You certainly couldn't get much simpler on
the construction. Would this be a Trizephyragua? Hopefully not a
Monstrositus Catastrophus.
I know all about PB&F not being able to get to their commissions -
six years and counting on our Auriga.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
...snip...
> Believe it or not, I had actually commission PB&F to design atrimaran
> modification to Zephyr for me back in 2001 when my family and Iwent to
> the Dominican Republic. But he wasn't able to get to it afterseveral
> months, and once in the DR I learned that Santo Domingo is morelike
> Bronx-by-the-sea and not really conducive to boating. No nearbybeach
> access, no marinas, no ramps for an hour's driver or more. So Ihad
> him send me a few stock plans for the money--Storm Petrel andMouser,
> if I remember correctly. I wish I had the workshop and time totackle
> a real catboat like Mouser.Sounds like he didn't reject the idea, which lends some weight to
the concept. I think two Michalak Piragua 18s would make great amas
for a Zephyr trimaran. You certainly couldn't get much simpler on
the construction. Would this be a Trizephyragua? Hopefully not a
Monstrositus Catastrophus.
I know all about PB&F not being able to get to their commissions -
six years and counting on our Auriga.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
Thanks, all for the input.
Let's see, my reponses...
Windsprint is starting to get pretty big, though looking at that hull
makes me think that Surf/Crab Skiff might be a better option for a
catamaran hill than June Bug.
The Junebugamaran might have "an exciting tendency to go end-over-end
downwind," as PCB once said about an old catboat, but then the straight
sides would give more initial stability.
No more Bricks for me--I want my boats pointy at one end, at least.
The dory hulls might also be a bit too tippy, and yes, for all, I am
concerned about swamping.
Believe it or not, I had actually commission PB&F to design a trimaran
modification to Zephyr for me back in 2001 when my family and I went to
the Dominican Republic. But he wasn't able to get to it after several
months, and once in the DR I learned that Santo Domingo is more like
Bronx-by-the-sea and not really conducive to boating. No nearby beach
access, no marinas, no ramps for an hour's driver or more. So I had
him send me a few stock plans for the money--Storm Petrel and Mouser,
if I remember correctly. I wish I had the workshop and time to tackle
a real catboat like Mouser.
Hmmm, now I'm thinking two Surf/Crab skiff hulls, stock rudders (made
folding) and leeboards, but with the Zephyr boomed lateen rig, maybe on
on an A-frame mast with one foot in each hull, or a stayed mast on the
bridge deck. Would be cheaper that way, and fewer spars, and the
Zephyr sail reefs nicely. Very tempting...maybe I ought to ask PCB for
his suggestions on a simple, stable catamaran from his stock parts bin?
Most of these boats can be found here, by the way:
http://www.instantboats.com/boats.html
Wharram and Jones both have readymade designs that might work, but
where's the challenge, then? ;-)
Daydreaming about boats instead of working...
Cheers,
Matthew
Let's see, my reponses...
Windsprint is starting to get pretty big, though looking at that hull
makes me think that Surf/Crab Skiff might be a better option for a
catamaran hill than June Bug.
The Junebugamaran might have "an exciting tendency to go end-over-end
downwind," as PCB once said about an old catboat, but then the straight
sides would give more initial stability.
No more Bricks for me--I want my boats pointy at one end, at least.
The dory hulls might also be a bit too tippy, and yes, for all, I am
concerned about swamping.
Believe it or not, I had actually commission PB&F to design a trimaran
modification to Zephyr for me back in 2001 when my family and I went to
the Dominican Republic. But he wasn't able to get to it after several
months, and once in the DR I learned that Santo Domingo is more like
Bronx-by-the-sea and not really conducive to boating. No nearby beach
access, no marinas, no ramps for an hour's driver or more. So I had
him send me a few stock plans for the money--Storm Petrel and Mouser,
if I remember correctly. I wish I had the workshop and time to tackle
a real catboat like Mouser.
Hmmm, now I'm thinking two Surf/Crab skiff hulls, stock rudders (made
folding) and leeboards, but with the Zephyr boomed lateen rig, maybe on
on an A-frame mast with one foot in each hull, or a stayed mast on the
bridge deck. Would be cheaper that way, and fewer spars, and the
Zephyr sail reefs nicely. Very tempting...maybe I ought to ask PCB for
his suggestions on a simple, stable catamaran from his stock parts bin?
Most of these boats can be found here, by the way:
http://www.instantboats.com/boats.html
Wharram and Jones both have readymade designs that might work, but
where's the challenge, then? ;-)
Daydreaming about boats instead of working...
Cheers,
Matthew
Have you looked at Gloucester Yawl or Light Schooner?
LS a bit over-canvassed by most accounts, but the main can be reefed and the
foresail left down. From the posts I have seen, particularly Flying Tadpole
IIhttp://www.ace.net.au/schooner/INDEX.HTMit can be a wild ride but lots
of fun. The thing is that at least two adults appear to be necessary to
sail one properly under full sail in any appreciable breeze.
I haven't seen much about Gloucester Yawl other than the write-up in Small
Boats, but it was intended for carrying a number of people.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
The Peillet-Long Family wrote:
LS a bit over-canvassed by most accounts, but the main can be reefed and the
foresail left down. From the posts I have seen, particularly Flying Tadpole
IIhttp://www.ace.net.au/schooner/INDEX.HTMit can be a wild ride but lots
of fun. The thing is that at least two adults appear to be necessary to
sail one properly under full sail in any appreciable breeze.
I haven't seen much about Gloucester Yawl other than the write-up in Small
Boats, but it was intended for carrying a number of people.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
The Peillet-Long Family wrote:
>
> The result is a 14' x 8' catamaran with more than enough displacement
> to carry the whole family (two adults, three little kids) and plenty
> of flotation.
>
>
>
I can't speak from any experience with multihulls, but I would be concerned
that open boats stuck together might have problems with swamping. I imagine
there are keel up designs for plywood catamarans somewhere in the world.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Patrick Crockett
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:00 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] June Bug squared?
According to Payson, the Windsprint started out as a catamaran, much
like you describe doing with the June Bugs. You can see the heritage in
the mast partner and rear thwart, which clearly were 2x4 beams
connecting the two hulls, and in the side-mounted dagger-board trunk.
The dual mast rig Bolger created for the catamaran apparently wasn't up
to snuff, so Payson suggested Bolger draw the current rig and make the
Windsprint into a monohull.
So -- (1) there is precedent for connecting two nice Bolger hulls into
a catamaran; (2) dual side-by-side masts might not be a good idea.
Your concept of a mast on the bridge seems like it will require some
serious engineering and/or weighty members to ensure that the bridge
doesn't break. With the hulls already not optimal for a catamaran (wider
than most cats' hulls) and the weight of the connecting members, I
suspect you could wind up with a raft that sails like a dog. Which might
be OK if the intent is to get the family out on the water to have some fun.
Patrick
The Peillet-Long Family wrote:
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
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Yahoo! Groups Links
that open boats stuck together might have problems with swamping. I imagine
there are keel up designs for plywood catamarans somewhere in the world.
-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Patrick Crockett
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:00 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] June Bug squared?
According to Payson, the Windsprint started out as a catamaran, much
like you describe doing with the June Bugs. You can see the heritage in
the mast partner and rear thwart, which clearly were 2x4 beams
connecting the two hulls, and in the side-mounted dagger-board trunk.
The dual mast rig Bolger created for the catamaran apparently wasn't up
to snuff, so Payson suggested Bolger draw the current rig and make the
Windsprint into a monohull.
So -- (1) there is precedent for connecting two nice Bolger hulls into
a catamaran; (2) dual side-by-side masts might not be a good idea.
Your concept of a mast on the bridge seems like it will require some
serious engineering and/or weighty members to ensure that the bridge
doesn't break. With the hulls already not optimal for a catamaran (wider
than most cats' hulls) and the weight of the connecting members, I
suspect you could wind up with a raft that sails like a dog. Which might
be OK if the intent is to get the family out on the water to have some fun.
Patrick
The Peillet-Long Family wrote:
> OK, here's a silly thought that just might work...horses
>
> I am still looking at quick and easy solutions to getting on the
> water with my family.
>
> I have already built one June Bug. It's at my in-laws house in
> France, but probably not easy to get it here to Tunisia, so let's
> just say I should be able to build a couple more reasonably quickly.
>
> Why not build two June Bugs (or any similar small boat) and add
> crossbeams and a simple decking/netting to join them together?
>
> Use the stock mast and sail, set in a partner on the bridge deck but
> a little forward of the stock location, and add a little mizzen for
> balance. Mount a very small kicker motor on the bridge deck. Add
> canvas dodgers over the forward end of each hull.
>
> The result is a 14' x 8' catamaran with more than enough displacement
> to carry the whole family (two adults, three little kids) and plenty
> of flotation.
>
> Yes it will pound in a chop, especially under power (might be good to
> deliberately heel it) and yes it will be undercanvased. But with all
> that rocker it ought to be handy and fun to sail, if not very fast.
> Ought to be very stable, too.
>
> Here is Dyamite Payson's June Bug page...
>
>http://www.instantboats.com/junebug.htm
>
> There may be other small boats even better suited to this concept.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts(978) 282-1349
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comBolger rules!!!
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
Why not build a double Brick, I think it's call "Grout"
************************************** See what's free athttp://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
************************************** See what's free athttp://www.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
...snip...
hull due to the differential movement of the hulls in the water. It
might work best if the bridge deck beams are lashed ala Wharram. I
would use some pretty tough lumber for the gunwale laminations (like
white ash, maybe?), lash the crossbeams, and definitely use a
trampoline instead of a hard deck if I was going to try this. If you
keep all the connections flexible it might work without having to beef
up the hulls.
As for sail area, why not just make two masts and sails and mount them
normally in each hull? You could also unlash the hulls and sail,
race, or row the two boats separately that way.
I guess another similar approach is to take a single-hulled boat like
a Zephyr and concoct some amas to make it a trimaran. If you used
something like kayaks for the amas, you'd be able to unlash at your
destination and have a whole fleet for the family to expore in.
Actually, two Zephyrs decked over to stiffen them up might make a nice
catamaran, too, much faster potentially than the Junebugamaran. How
about a Zephyr-Teal proa configuration!?
Sounds like fun to me - good luck, and you if try this, don't be shy
with the camera!
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> Yes it will pound in a chop, especially under power (might be goodto
> deliberately heel it) and yes it will be undercanvased. But withall
> that rocker it ought to be handy and fun to sail, if not very fast.There will be racking stresses transmitted by the bridge deck to each
> Ought to be very stable, too.
hull due to the differential movement of the hulls in the water. It
might work best if the bridge deck beams are lashed ala Wharram. I
would use some pretty tough lumber for the gunwale laminations (like
white ash, maybe?), lash the crossbeams, and definitely use a
trampoline instead of a hard deck if I was going to try this. If you
keep all the connections flexible it might work without having to beef
up the hulls.
As for sail area, why not just make two masts and sails and mount them
normally in each hull? You could also unlash the hulls and sail,
race, or row the two boats separately that way.
I guess another similar approach is to take a single-hulled boat like
a Zephyr and concoct some amas to make it a trimaran. If you used
something like kayaks for the amas, you'd be able to unlash at your
destination and have a whole fleet for the family to expore in.
Actually, two Zephyrs decked over to stiffen them up might make a nice
catamaran, too, much faster potentially than the Junebugamaran. How
about a Zephyr-Teal proa configuration!?
Sounds like fun to me - good luck, and you if try this, don't be shy
with the camera!
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
According to Payson, the Windsprint started out as a catamaran, much
like you describe doing with the June Bugs. You can see the heritage in
the mast partner and rear thwart, which clearly were 2x4 beams
connecting the two hulls, and in the side-mounted dagger-board trunk.
The dual mast rig Bolger created for the catamaran apparently wasn't up
to snuff, so Payson suggested Bolger draw the current rig and make the
Windsprint into a monohull.
So -- (1) there is precedent for connecting two nice Bolger hulls into
a catamaran; (2) dual side-by-side masts might not be a good idea.
Your concept of a mast on the bridge seems like it will require some
serious engineering and/or weighty members to ensure that the bridge
doesn't break. With the hulls already not optimal for a catamaran (wider
than most cats' hulls) and the weight of the connecting members, I
suspect you could wind up with a raft that sails like a dog. Which might
be OK if the intent is to get the family out on the water to have some fun.
Patrick
The Peillet-Long Family wrote:
like you describe doing with the June Bugs. You can see the heritage in
the mast partner and rear thwart, which clearly were 2x4 beams
connecting the two hulls, and in the side-mounted dagger-board trunk.
The dual mast rig Bolger created for the catamaran apparently wasn't up
to snuff, so Payson suggested Bolger draw the current rig and make the
Windsprint into a monohull.
So -- (1) there is precedent for connecting two nice Bolger hulls into
a catamaran; (2) dual side-by-side masts might not be a good idea.
Your concept of a mast on the bridge seems like it will require some
serious engineering and/or weighty members to ensure that the bridge
doesn't break. With the hulls already not optimal for a catamaran (wider
than most cats' hulls) and the weight of the connecting members, I
suspect you could wind up with a raft that sails like a dog. Which might
be OK if the intent is to get the family out on the water to have some fun.
Patrick
The Peillet-Long Family wrote:
> OK, here's a silly thought that just might work...
>
> I am still looking at quick and easy solutions to getting on the
> water with my family.
>
> I have already built one June Bug. It's at my in-laws house in
> France, but probably not easy to get it here to Tunisia, so let's
> just say I should be able to build a couple more reasonably quickly.
>
> Why not build two June Bugs (or any similar small boat) and add
> crossbeams and a simple decking/netting to join them together?
>
> Use the stock mast and sail, set in a partner on the bridge deck but
> a little forward of the stock location, and add a little mizzen for
> balance. Mount a very small kicker motor on the bridge deck. Add
> canvas dodgers over the forward end of each hull.
>
> The result is a 14' x 8' catamaran with more than enough displacement
> to carry the whole family (two adults, three little kids) and plenty
> of flotation.
>
> Yes it will pound in a chop, especially under power (might be good to
> deliberately heel it) and yes it will be undercanvased. But with all
> that rocker it ought to be handy and fun to sail, if not very fast.
> Ought to be very stable, too.
>
> Here is Dyamite Payson's June Bug page...
>
>http://www.instantboats.com/junebug.htm
>
> There may be other small boats even better suited to this concept.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
OK, here's a silly thought that just might work...
I am still looking at quick and easy solutions to getting on the
water with my family.
I have already built one June Bug. It's at my in-laws house in
France, but probably not easy to get it here to Tunisia, so let's
just say I should be able to build a couple more reasonably quickly.
Why not build two June Bugs (or any similar small boat) and add
crossbeams and a simple decking/netting to join them together?
Use the stock mast and sail, set in a partner on the bridge deck but
a little forward of the stock location, and add a little mizzen for
balance. Mount a very small kicker motor on the bridge deck. Add
canvas dodgers over the forward end of each hull.
The result is a 14' x 8' catamaran with more than enough displacement
to carry the whole family (two adults, three little kids) and plenty
of flotation.
Yes it will pound in a chop, especially under power (might be good to
deliberately heel it) and yes it will be undercanvased. But with all
that rocker it ought to be handy and fun to sail, if not very fast.
Ought to be very stable, too.
Here is Dyamite Payson's June Bug page...
http://www.instantboats.com/junebug.htm
There may be other small boats even better suited to this concept.
Thoughts?
I am still looking at quick and easy solutions to getting on the
water with my family.
I have already built one June Bug. It's at my in-laws house in
France, but probably not easy to get it here to Tunisia, so let's
just say I should be able to build a couple more reasonably quickly.
Why not build two June Bugs (or any similar small boat) and add
crossbeams and a simple decking/netting to join them together?
Use the stock mast and sail, set in a partner on the bridge deck but
a little forward of the stock location, and add a little mizzen for
balance. Mount a very small kicker motor on the bridge deck. Add
canvas dodgers over the forward end of each hull.
The result is a 14' x 8' catamaran with more than enough displacement
to carry the whole family (two adults, three little kids) and plenty
of flotation.
Yes it will pound in a chop, especially under power (might be good to
deliberately heel it) and yes it will be undercanvased. But with all
that rocker it ought to be handy and fun to sail, if not very fast.
Ought to be very stable, too.
Here is Dyamite Payson's June Bug page...
http://www.instantboats.com/junebug.htm
There may be other small boats even better suited to this concept.
Thoughts?