Re: Dipper/S. Devlin/Plywood material
Signal is made by one maker and holds up real wellmaking it for mostly
the sign market. On the West Coast Olympic Ply is a big maker of MDO
and has developed lower grades for home building applications like post
wraping and soffets that are mostly one sided.
Jon
the sign market. On the West Coast Olympic Ply is a big maker of MDO
and has developed lower grades for home building applications like post
wraping and soffets that are mostly one sided.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Clyde Wisner <clydewis@...> wrote:
>
> I believe "Signal" is the more expensive verity of MDO. I have been
> using a lot of 10ft MDO in building my boat shed and it seems to be
> holding up well as I'm way behind in painting it. I bought mine from
> Harbor Sales in Sudlerville,MD if you're in the mid atlantic. "Void
> wise" i think Signal would be better but I would compare prices with
> Meranti in say, the 6566(whatever) level. I hope to build a big barge
> type boat and plan to try reg 1/2" MDO and see how it holds up. Clyde
I believe "Signal" is the more expensive verity of MDO. I have been
using a lot of 10ft MDO in building my boat shed and it seems to be
holding up well as I'm way behind in painting it. I bought mine from
Harbor Sales in Sudlerville,MD if you're in the mid atlantic. "Void
wise" i think Signal would be better but I would compare prices with
Meranti in say, the 6566(whatever) level. I hope to build a big barge
type boat and plan to try reg 1/2" MDO and see how it holds up. Clyde
John and Kathy Trussell wrote:
using a lot of 10ft MDO in building my boat shed and it seems to be
holding up well as I'm way behind in painting it. I bought mine from
Harbor Sales in Sudlerville,MD if you're in the mid atlantic. "Void
wise" i think Signal would be better but I would compare prices with
Meranti in say, the 6566(whatever) level. I hope to build a big barge
type boat and plan to try reg 1/2" MDO and see how it holds up. Clyde
John and Kathy Trussell wrote:
> I butted the panels to be joined together and sand a depression with a[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> belt sander. Did the same thing on the other side. Fiberglassed both
> sides using the Payson fiber glass butt strap technique. It took some
> filling and sanding to get everything smooth, but you can't find the
> joints.say
>
> I like Signal brand MDO. I have yet to find a significant void and I
> have cut it
>
> .
>
>
I butted the panels to be joined together and sand a depression with a belt sander. Did the same thing on the other side. Fiberglassed both sides using the Payson fiber glass butt strap technique. It took some filling and sanding to get everything smooth, but you can't find the joints.
I like Signal brand MDO. I have yet to find a significant void and I have cut it with about all the power tools I have with no splintering or tear out. My only knock on MDO is that it doesn't come in anything thinner than 3/8".
JohnT
I like Signal brand MDO. I have yet to find a significant void and I have cut it with about all the power tools I have with no splintering or tear out. My only knock on MDO is that it doesn't come in anything thinner than 3/8".
JohnT
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce C. Dillahunty
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Dipper/S. Devlin/Plywood material
You guys who are using MDO, I've got a question for you... how do you
find joining the panels? How are you doing it? Scarfs? Butt blocks?. Do
you sand off the overlay and put on tape on that side, or put tape over
the top or what? Just looks like with the smoothness that you're gaining
with the overlay coating, that it would be hard to get the seams
fair/smooth.
Bruce
Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
> David was by last weekend and saw my Sternwheel hull in progress and
> it is MDO. It has gained popularity in many uses in home construction
> so comes in different grades. Sign or top grade is overlayed on AA or
> AB sanded both sides. There is AB, AB pluged and AC AC pluged that is
> one sided overlay and two sided overlay. Depending on Depending on
> grade there will be no voids or some voids. On C it can be overlayed
> over a small knot missing on the C side. Shop grade may just have the
> overlay missing at the end or all if the above imperfections. On shop
> grade knots and voids show up when you run a belt sander over it as
> places that didn't sand and can have the overlay cut off with a knife
> and pached. Core voids can be filled with epoxy depending on the use.
> In the NW and areas that it is sold top grade is less then Marine and
> the glue volume used is more of the same used in marine. It is
> stiffer to bend but a good choice in large boats. Epoxy works well
> with it as well as paints. Originaly developed for Hiway signs and
> used by good sign shops.
>
> Jon
>
>
>> MDR - I don't know this product at all. I'm gonna go out on a limb
> and
>> guess that you're actually referring to MDO. MDO (Medium Density
>> Overlay) is a lot like the AC Exterior. I believe the best is
> actually
>> fabricated to a slightly higher standard. The big difference is that
>> one or both faces are covered in a kraft paper, soaked in resin
>> (phenolic IIRC) and adhered with heat. The resin is very
>> water-reistant and durable. It eliminates the checking issue
> mentioned
>> above. I haven't used it myself, but several of our boating group
>> have. If I build another boat, I believe I'll use it.
>>
>> Perhaps others can chime in with additions or corrections. What boat
>> are you considering building?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David Graybeal
>> Portland, OR
>
>
--
Bruce Dillahunty
bdillahu@...
http://www.craftacraft.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You can use any of the methodes you use with regular plywood. The
overlay is embosed so epoxy and paint stick to it well and the overlay
will let epoxy and paint soak in. I used butt blocks and then sanded to
fair. Befor glassing I sealed the hull with epoxy and when it was just
barly tacky I layed the glass and wetted it out. The overlay is hard
and can take a good sanding before you sand through it. On the
sternwheeler I am building there is a lot of big flat areas but with a
little belt and random orbet sanding you can get a good finish. Treat
it like any other ply knowing it is stiffer, stronger and tougher then
most other plywood with a lot of glue in it. With Payson or scarf
joints fair the tape with epoxy fairing mix about 8" each side of tape
before glassing and sand down. After glassing fair a little wider area
this way it is a wide smooth bump not a narrow bump that looks like a
crease. You can also hollow out where you tape but joints just like any
plywood with a cisc sander tilted up to form a hollow to lay tape in.
The MDO just gives you a good face to glass on that soaks less epoxy
and will not check. Lower grades may have some grain show through but
when glassing it goes away. Simply use it like any other boat building
plywood.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce C. Dillahunty" <bdillahu@...>
wrote:
overlay is embosed so epoxy and paint stick to it well and the overlay
will let epoxy and paint soak in. I used butt blocks and then sanded to
fair. Befor glassing I sealed the hull with epoxy and when it was just
barly tacky I layed the glass and wetted it out. The overlay is hard
and can take a good sanding before you sand through it. On the
sternwheeler I am building there is a lot of big flat areas but with a
little belt and random orbet sanding you can get a good finish. Treat
it like any other ply knowing it is stiffer, stronger and tougher then
most other plywood with a lot of glue in it. With Payson or scarf
joints fair the tape with epoxy fairing mix about 8" each side of tape
before glassing and sand down. After glassing fair a little wider area
this way it is a wide smooth bump not a narrow bump that looks like a
crease. You can also hollow out where you tape but joints just like any
plywood with a cisc sander tilted up to form a hollow to lay tape in.
The MDO just gives you a good face to glass on that soaks less epoxy
and will not check. Lower grades may have some grain show through but
when glassing it goes away. Simply use it like any other boat building
plywood.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce C. Dillahunty" <bdillahu@...>
wrote:
>Do
> You guys who are using MDO, I've got a question for you... how do you
> find joining the panels? How are you doing it? Scarfs? Butt blocks?.
> you sand off the overlay and put on tape on that side, or put tapeover
> the top or what? Just looks like with the smoothness that you'regaining
> with the overlay coating, that it would be hard to get the seams
> fair/smooth.
>
> Bruce
You guys who are using MDO, I've got a question for you... how do you
find joining the panels? How are you doing it? Scarfs? Butt blocks?. Do
you sand off the overlay and put on tape on that side, or put tape over
the top or what? Just looks like with the smoothness that you're gaining
with the overlay coating, that it would be hard to get the seams
fair/smooth.
Bruce
Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
Bruce Dillahunty
bdillahu@...
http://www.craftacraft.com
find joining the panels? How are you doing it? Scarfs? Butt blocks?. Do
you sand off the overlay and put on tape on that side, or put tape over
the top or what? Just looks like with the smoothness that you're gaining
with the overlay coating, that it would be hard to get the seams
fair/smooth.
Bruce
Jon & Wanda(Tink) wrote:
> David was by last weekend and saw my Sternwheel hull in progress and--
> it is MDO. It has gained popularity in many uses in home construction
> so comes in different grades. Sign or top grade is overlayed on AA or
> AB sanded both sides. There is AB, AB pluged and AC AC pluged that is
> one sided overlay and two sided overlay. Depending on Depending on
> grade there will be no voids or some voids. On C it can be overlayed
> over a small knot missing on the C side. Shop grade may just have the
> overlay missing at the end or all if the above imperfections. On shop
> grade knots and voids show up when you run a belt sander over it as
> places that didn't sand and can have the overlay cut off with a knife
> and pached. Core voids can be filled with epoxy depending on the use.
> In the NW and areas that it is sold top grade is less then Marine and
> the glue volume used is more of the same used in marine. It is
> stiffer to bend but a good choice in large boats. Epoxy works well
> with it as well as paints. Originaly developed for Hiway signs and
> used by good sign shops.
>
> Jon
>
>
>> MDR - I don't know this product at all. I'm gonna go out on a limb
> and
>> guess that you're actually referring to MDO. MDO (Medium Density
>> Overlay) is a lot like the AC Exterior. I believe the best is
> actually
>> fabricated to a slightly higher standard. The big difference is that
>> one or both faces are covered in a kraft paper, soaked in resin
>> (phenolic IIRC) and adhered with heat. The resin is very
>> water-reistant and durable. It eliminates the checking issue
> mentioned
>> above. I haven't used it myself, but several of our boating group
>> have. If I build another boat, I believe I'll use it.
>>
>> Perhaps others can chime in with additions or corrections. What boat
>> are you considering building?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David Graybeal
>> Portland, OR
>
>
Bruce Dillahunty
bdillahu@...
http://www.craftacraft.com
David was by last weekend and saw my Sternwheel hull in progress and
it is MDO. It has gained popularity in many uses in home construction
so comes in different grades. Sign or top grade is overlayed on AA or
AB sanded both sides. There is AB, AB pluged and AC AC pluged that is
one sided overlay and two sided overlay. Depending on Depending on
grade there will be no voids or some voids. On C it can be overlayed
over a small knot missing on the C side. Shop grade may just have the
overlay missing at the end or all if the above imperfections. On shop
grade knots and voids show up when you run a belt sander over it as
places that didn't sand and can have the overlay cut off with a knife
and pached. Core voids can be filled with epoxy depending on the use.
In the NW and areas that it is sold top grade is less then Marine and
the glue volume used is more of the same used in marine. It is
stiffer to bend but a good choice in large boats. Epoxy works well
with it as well as paints. Originaly developed for Hiway signs and
used by good sign shops.
Jon
it is MDO. It has gained popularity in many uses in home construction
so comes in different grades. Sign or top grade is overlayed on AA or
AB sanded both sides. There is AB, AB pluged and AC AC pluged that is
one sided overlay and two sided overlay. Depending on Depending on
grade there will be no voids or some voids. On C it can be overlayed
over a small knot missing on the C side. Shop grade may just have the
overlay missing at the end or all if the above imperfections. On shop
grade knots and voids show up when you run a belt sander over it as
places that didn't sand and can have the overlay cut off with a knife
and pached. Core voids can be filled with epoxy depending on the use.
In the NW and areas that it is sold top grade is less then Marine and
the glue volume used is more of the same used in marine. It is
stiffer to bend but a good choice in large boats. Epoxy works well
with it as well as paints. Originaly developed for Hiway signs and
used by good sign shops.
Jon
> MDR - I don't know this product at all. I'm gonna go out on a limband
> guess that you're actually referring to MDO. MDO (Medium Densityactually
> Overlay) is a lot like the AC Exterior. I believe the best is
> fabricated to a slightly higher standard. The big difference is thatmentioned
> one or both faces are covered in a kraft paper, soaked in resin
> (phenolic IIRC) and adhered with heat. The resin is very
> water-reistant and durable. It eliminates the checking issue
> above. I haven't used it myself, but several of our boating group
> have. If I build another boat, I believe I'll use it.
>
> Perhaps others can chime in with additions or corrections. What boat
> are you considering building?
>
> Cheers,
> David Graybeal
> Portland, OR
ack,
I'll try and give the thumbnail version. You can google all these
products for more detail, or go to the websites of retailers like
Boulter Plywood (E. Coast) and Edensaw (W. Coast).
BS1088 refers to marine plywood built to the British Standard #1088.
It is generally viewed as the best quality panel product for boat
building. Species is often occoume or meranti. The former is lighter,
the latter is more rot resistant.
BS6566 is very similar, built to a slightly less stringent standard.
Still very high quality. For most small boat building, this is my
personal choice.
AC Exterior is a construction grade plywood. Usually douglas fir or
pine. Less expensive than the BS's. Not bad in terms of water
resistance. Because it's usually fabricated with fewer plys per inch
than the BS's it's not as strong. That and the fact that the plys are
not consistent thickness (as they are with the BS's) make it bend
sometimes in less consistently fair curves. The biggest problem folks
have had: it checks when exposed to the weather. The most reliable
strategy seems to be coat it with light fiberglass cloth/epoxy resin
before painting (not varnishing).
MDR - I don't know this product at all. I'm gonna go out on a limb and
guess that you're actually referring to MDO. MDO (Medium Density
Overlay) is a lot like the AC Exterior. I believe the best is actually
fabricated to a slightly higher standard. The big difference is that
one or both faces are covered in a kraft paper, soaked in resin
(phenolic IIRC) and adhered with heat. The resin is very
water-reistant and durable. It eliminates the checking issue mentioned
above. I haven't used it myself, but several of our boating group
have. If I build another boat, I believe I'll use it.
Perhaps others can chime in with additions or corrections. What boat
are you considering building?
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"Some people like my advice so much that they frame it upon the wall
instead of using it" -- Gordon Dickson
***********************
I'll try and give the thumbnail version. You can google all these
products for more detail, or go to the websites of retailers like
Boulter Plywood (E. Coast) and Edensaw (W. Coast).
BS1088 refers to marine plywood built to the British Standard #1088.
It is generally viewed as the best quality panel product for boat
building. Species is often occoume or meranti. The former is lighter,
the latter is more rot resistant.
BS6566 is very similar, built to a slightly less stringent standard.
Still very high quality. For most small boat building, this is my
personal choice.
AC Exterior is a construction grade plywood. Usually douglas fir or
pine. Less expensive than the BS's. Not bad in terms of water
resistance. Because it's usually fabricated with fewer plys per inch
than the BS's it's not as strong. That and the fact that the plys are
not consistent thickness (as they are with the BS's) make it bend
sometimes in less consistently fair curves. The biggest problem folks
have had: it checks when exposed to the weather. The most reliable
strategy seems to be coat it with light fiberglass cloth/epoxy resin
before painting (not varnishing).
MDR - I don't know this product at all. I'm gonna go out on a limb and
guess that you're actually referring to MDO. MDO (Medium Density
Overlay) is a lot like the AC Exterior. I believe the best is actually
fabricated to a slightly higher standard. The big difference is that
one or both faces are covered in a kraft paper, soaked in resin
(phenolic IIRC) and adhered with heat. The resin is very
water-reistant and durable. It eliminates the checking issue mentioned
above. I haven't used it myself, but several of our boating group
have. If I build another boat, I believe I'll use it.
Perhaps others can chime in with additions or corrections. What boat
are you considering building?
Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR
"Some people like my advice so much that they frame it upon the wall
instead of using it" -- Gordon Dickson
***********************
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "ackphish" <ackphish@...> wrote:
>
> I've been lurking and reading the posts on using BS1088, AC exterior
> plywood, MDR and am a bit confused. BS1088 is the choice of S.Devlin,
> one of the builders of the Dipper used AC exterior and there has been
> talk of MDR, help!!
>
I've been lurking and reading the posts on using BS1088, AC exterior
plywood, MDR and am a bit confused. BS1088 is the choice of S.Devlin,
one of the builders of the Dipper used AC exterior and there has been
talk of MDR, help!!
plywood, MDR and am a bit confused. BS1088 is the choice of S.Devlin,
one of the builders of the Dipper used AC exterior and there has been
talk of MDR, help!!