Re: [[bolger] Re: Thinking Micro...]
On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, Mark Albanese wrote:
Others, I've made, though. As usual, in both cases, I broke the following
Bolger group rules:
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
> I'm sorry this happened to you. I'm sure it was a disappointment. OneMe too. It was my first boat, and I haven't made a similar mistake yet.
> needs to know the volume of the space you're filling. The foam expands
> to roughly 4-5 cubic ft per gallon.
Others, I've made, though. As usual, in both cases, I broke the following
Bolger group rules:
> Bolger rules:-C
> - no cursing
Chris Crandallcrandall@...(785) 864-4131
Department of Psychology University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045
I have data convincingly disconfirming the Duhem-Quine hypothesis.
Classic stern sheeting puts the leverage in a great location so that
extra blocks etc... are not necessary. The Enterprise and a host of
other racing dinghies have used this approach successfully. The Cape
Cod Frosty has its sheet controlled off the rudder, but many sailors
in
the fleet have chosen to make a bridle on the stern deck so that they
can control the point of trim more closely when racing (an 1/8 kt is
an
1/8 knot!). The only problem I could foresee with attaching the
sheet
to the rudder is to have the rudder pop out of the gudgeons due to
the
lack of a rudder stop to prevent this from happening.
extra blocks etc... are not necessary. The Enterprise and a host of
other racing dinghies have used this approach successfully. The Cape
Cod Frosty has its sheet controlled off the rudder, but many sailors
in
the fleet have chosen to make a bridle on the stern deck so that they
can control the point of trim more closely when racing (an 1/8 kt is
an
1/8 knot!). The only problem I could foresee with attaching the
sheet
to the rudder is to have the rudder pop out of the gudgeons due to
the
lack of a rudder stop to prevent this from happening.
>3) I 've reviewed the rigging design on Mr. Bolgers plan and the lug sailThe sheet on the rudder works fine. The only problem I ever had was the
>rigging advice on Mr. Michilak's site but I'm not thrilled by the sheet line
>plans for a double-ender. Running the sheet through the rudder looks to me
>like an awful lot of stress on a weak area. Has anyone tried a bridle?
>
>Thanks in advance for your help.
>
>Kathleen O'Donnell
>odonnellkathleen@...
sheet sometimes getting tangled on the rudder during a jibe. Even with full
sail, the single part sheet was enough purchase. My advice, rig the sheet
as drawn. Look in the files for my details on the downhaul and parrels for
the yard.
Best,
JB
John M. Bell
Kennesaw, GA
mailto:jmbell@...
http://jmbell.home.mindspring.com
(770) 592-2165 - home
(770) 595-2311 - car
(770) 514-6016 - office/voicemail
(800) 492-5089 - nationwide digital pager
Chris:
I'm sorry this happened to you. I'm sure it was a
disappointment. One needs to know the volume of the space
you're filling. The foam expands to roughly 4-5 cubic ft per gallon.
Better luck in all you do,
Mark
Chris Crandall wrote:
I'm sorry this happened to you. I'm sure it was a
disappointment. One needs to know the volume of the space
you're filling. The foam expands to roughly 4-5 cubic ft per gallon.
Better luck in all you do,
Mark
Chris Crandall wrote:
>
> On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, Mark Albanese wrote:
>
> > Dear Ms. O'Donnell:
> > I can only tell you my experience with expanding foam. There
> > is no danger of, "Exploding" your boat.
>
> Well, I used expanding foam, on a compartment underneath the stern sheets,
> and certainly exploded my boat. The seat was pushed up, and I had to cut
> it out and redo it all. A mess. A stinking mess.
>
> Be careful.
>
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>
> Bolger rules:
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, Mark Albanese wrote:
and certainly exploded my boat. The seat was pushed up, and I had to cut
it out and redo it all. A mess. A stinking mess.
Be careful.
> Dear Ms. O'Donnell:Well, I used expanding foam, on a compartment underneath the stern sheets,
> I can only tell you my experience with expanding foam. There
> is no danger of, "Exploding" your boat.
and certainly exploded my boat. The seat was pushed up, and I had to cut
it out and redo it all. A mess. A stinking mess.
Be careful.
Dear Ms. O'Donnell:
I can only tell you my experience with expanding foam. There
is no danger of, "Exploding" your boat. The fact sheet that
came with the 'Titan' brand I've used said to be prepared
for 2-4 psi, definitely not very much. I first put it in
with temporary hardboard bulkheads fixed in place with duct
tape. I was just smart enough to remember to wax them.
I found it no messier than epoxy. Just wear good gloves and
throw everything away. The tricky part is that there's not
much time left once you start the mixing. It's all over in
about 90 seconds, but all you have to do is pour, so there
wasn't much problem. There are other brands, but the Titan
just suddenly changed color to let me know I'd stirred enough.
The other tricky part is that you can do almost nothing to
shape it while expanding. The upper part may end a little
dome shaped -or uneven if you have bad luck. Following the
directions to start with smalI pours in order to get used to
it, I was a little timid about the quantities I mixed. That
turned out not to be imperative. Have an extra quart around
to top it off, I'd say. It sticks to itself and almost
anything else very well and has structural reinforcement properties.
It becomes a wonderfully light, very homogenous block. They
said to leave it bare, or paint it with epoxy. Since I
cartop my boat and wanted to save weight, I thought to try
it. Not liking the way that looked against an all varnish
interior, I'm working on closing mine in for good now too.
I'd be very surprised if what I used gets waterlogged in a
hurry, but I haven't had it long enough to be emphatic.
I had some packing peanuts that I used to measure the amount
needed. That was off by 20%, because of the space between
the nuts I learned. I considered using these alone, but
remembered that in a crash that these and styrofoam blocks,
which also dribbles it's particles around, are not
environmentally responsible any more. Bad for the birds, you know.
On the subject of epoxy, you needn't use soap at all. The
amine likes the water. You want a really sopping towel. Next
time though, you may enjoy using a noblush epoxy hardener,
which has been available for many years. System Three is
about the only source I know that still takes a very premium
price for it.
Not having rigged my Windsprint for sail (it's electric), I
can't comment much on your other question. But in way of
speculation I'd say that lots of boats have been sheeted as
per the plan, but near the sternpost there's no breadth to
use what I think of as a bridle. Jim Michalak says, "Place
the fairlead right above the rudder hinges so the sheet
loads won't affect steering." With his usual precise
economy, Philip Bolger placed it just about there in this
boat as a hole in the rudder stock. The Windsprint is pretty
beamy a good way aft, so it might work with a fairlead on
the sheer. Take a look at 101 Small Boat Rigs to figure this
out for yourself.
No doubt you are dying to get it on the water soon! Good luck.
Mark
Kathleen O'Donnell wrote:
I can only tell you my experience with expanding foam. There
is no danger of, "Exploding" your boat. The fact sheet that
came with the 'Titan' brand I've used said to be prepared
for 2-4 psi, definitely not very much. I first put it in
with temporary hardboard bulkheads fixed in place with duct
tape. I was just smart enough to remember to wax them.
I found it no messier than epoxy. Just wear good gloves and
throw everything away. The tricky part is that there's not
much time left once you start the mixing. It's all over in
about 90 seconds, but all you have to do is pour, so there
wasn't much problem. There are other brands, but the Titan
just suddenly changed color to let me know I'd stirred enough.
The other tricky part is that you can do almost nothing to
shape it while expanding. The upper part may end a little
dome shaped -or uneven if you have bad luck. Following the
directions to start with smalI pours in order to get used to
it, I was a little timid about the quantities I mixed. That
turned out not to be imperative. Have an extra quart around
to top it off, I'd say. It sticks to itself and almost
anything else very well and has structural reinforcement properties.
It becomes a wonderfully light, very homogenous block. They
said to leave it bare, or paint it with epoxy. Since I
cartop my boat and wanted to save weight, I thought to try
it. Not liking the way that looked against an all varnish
interior, I'm working on closing mine in for good now too.
I'd be very surprised if what I used gets waterlogged in a
hurry, but I haven't had it long enough to be emphatic.
I had some packing peanuts that I used to measure the amount
needed. That was off by 20%, because of the space between
the nuts I learned. I considered using these alone, but
remembered that in a crash that these and styrofoam blocks,
which also dribbles it's particles around, are not
environmentally responsible any more. Bad for the birds, you know.
On the subject of epoxy, you needn't use soap at all. The
amine likes the water. You want a really sopping towel. Next
time though, you may enjoy using a noblush epoxy hardener,
which has been available for many years. System Three is
about the only source I know that still takes a very premium
price for it.
Not having rigged my Windsprint for sail (it's electric), I
can't comment much on your other question. But in way of
speculation I'd say that lots of boats have been sheeted as
per the plan, but near the sternpost there's no breadth to
use what I think of as a bridle. Jim Michalak says, "Place
the fairlead right above the rudder hinges so the sheet
loads won't affect steering." With his usual precise
economy, Philip Bolger placed it just about there in this
boat as a hole in the rudder stock. The Windsprint is pretty
beamy a good way aft, so it might work with a fairlead on
the sheer. Take a look at 101 Small Boat Rigs to figure this
out for yourself.
No doubt you are dying to get it on the water soon! Good luck.
Mark
Kathleen O'Donnell wrote:
>
> Dear folks,
>
> I'm closing in on finishing a Windsprint and I'm taking a lot of advice I've
> found through this lsit to heart. I'm decking over fore and aft as several
> builders have suggested. Before I close in I'd appreciate some advice on a
> couple of issues.
>
> 1) What can be used for floatation besides expanding foam? I think I'd jump
> off a bridge if I exploded the boat at this point. I'm putting inspection
> ports in the bulkheads, do I also need limber holes?
>
> 2) Many people have emphasized the importance of washing eppoxy with soap
> before painting, does it matter what kind? I would think soap residue might
> be as much problem a the amine blush from the epoxy.
>
> 3) I 've reviewed the rigging design on Mr. Bolgers plan and the lug sail
> rigging advice on Mr. Michilak's site but I'm not thrilled by the sheet line
> plans for a double-ender. Running the sheet through the rudder looks to me
> like an awful lot of stress on a weak area. Has anyone tried a bridle?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Kathleen O'Donnell
>odonnellkathleen@...
>
> "John Bell" <jmbell@...> wrote:
>
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > Attachment:
> > MIME Type: multipart/alternative
> > ---------------------------------------------
> I'm building a Micro myself.
>
> According to the few people I've discussed Micro with, it is an all
> around great boat. That does not mean they don't have some
> criticisms, though.
>
> The biggest complaint is that the mainmast is difficult to step. I've
> got my mast ready to go, and I see where it could be intimidating. It
> is quite a large unweildy timber to fish through the partners.
>
> The other is that it is not the best "day-sailer on a trailer", since
> it takes somewhere between 45 minutes to an hour each way to set up
> and take down on the ramp. So if you plan to use it that way, you
> might find it too much work to set up for a quick after-work sail.
> This is a common criticism of just about all larger trailer
> sailboats, though. I suppose if we wanted utter simplicity, we'd all
> get jetskis instead of sailboats, wouldn't we? I'm probably going to
> keep mine rigged on a trailer up at the lake to keep it simple.
>
> Other than those two points, everything else has been positive.
>
> John Bell
> Kennesaw, GA
>
> --- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Mark Paquette" <paquette@d...> wrote:
> > I am waiting for the weather to warm up so I can complete my first
> > boat. All I have to do is get some paint on her and haul her to
> the
> > water. For my first boat project I selected the MayFly12 designed
> by
> > Jim Michalak. It has been a lot of fun.
> >
> > Now for the next boat I have just about made up my mind on the
> Micro.
> > I have a couple of question for the group.
> >
> > First, I have seen almost no bad press on this design. Everything I
> > have
> > been able to find says how great this little boat is. So has anyone
> > out there
> > willing to share any bad experiences they have heard about this
> boat?
> > (Or bad experiences they had themselves in the Micro.)
> >
> > Second, any builders willig to share cost est. and building time
> est.,
> > would greatly help the cause...The "cause" you say...Yes, talking my
> > wife into
> > letting me start the next boat this summer, would be this "cause"...
> >
> > Thank you...
> > Mark in MN
> >
> > PS. Me thinks this e-Groups thingy is great...
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules:
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Kathleen:
<<1) What can be used for floatation besides expanding foam? I think I'd
jump
off a bridge if I exploded the boat at this point. I'm putting inspection
ports in the bulkheads, do I also need limber holes?>>
I will tackle this one and leave the others for someone else. Forget the
expanding foam. It's tricky to work with, it's messy, it can get water
logged. Instead use any of these three methods: 1) Use blocks of the white
Styrofoam stuffed into an area that is otherwise ventilated. 2) use empty
milk jugs captured in a ventilated area. 3) Do not use limber holes or
otherwise ventilate the area behind the bulkheads, but keep the inspection
ports closed when on the water, and keep them open when off the water.
I hope you find my personal opinions helpful.
Chuck
<<1) What can be used for floatation besides expanding foam? I think I'd
jump
off a bridge if I exploded the boat at this point. I'm putting inspection
ports in the bulkheads, do I also need limber holes?>>
I will tackle this one and leave the others for someone else. Forget the
expanding foam. It's tricky to work with, it's messy, it can get water
logged. Instead use any of these three methods: 1) Use blocks of the white
Styrofoam stuffed into an area that is otherwise ventilated. 2) use empty
milk jugs captured in a ventilated area. 3) Do not use limber holes or
otherwise ventilate the area behind the bulkheads, but keep the inspection
ports closed when on the water, and keep them open when off the water.
I hope you find my personal opinions helpful.
Chuck
Kathleen:
<<1) What can be used for floatation besides expanding foam?
In addition to Chucks ideas (all good) there are "wine bladders",
used inside a cardboard box for retailing wine.In Australia these
contain 4l or 30l & weigh next to nothing.
Unless you are keen to drink the displacement of your boat,
(building can have that effect on people), contact any large
winery to find out where they get them.
Improvement over milk jug is lighter and can put in
confined spaces. If filling a large volume wrap them up in fishing net.
If you are holed a few will explode but you wont sink.
Jeff Gilbert.
<<1) What can be used for floatation besides expanding foam?
In addition to Chucks ideas (all good) there are "wine bladders",
used inside a cardboard box for retailing wine.In Australia these
contain 4l or 30l & weigh next to nothing.
Unless you are keen to drink the displacement of your boat,
(building can have that effect on people), contact any large
winery to find out where they get them.
Improvement over milk jug is lighter and can put in
confined spaces. If filling a large volume wrap them up in fishing net.
If you are holed a few will explode but you wont sink.
Jeff Gilbert.
Dear folks,
I'm closing in on finishing a Windsprint and I'm taking a lot of advice I've
found through this lsit to heart. I'm decking over fore and aft as several
builders have suggested. Before I close in I'd appreciate some advice on a
couple of issues.
1) What can be used for floatation besides expanding foam? I think I'd jump
off a bridge if I exploded the boat at this point. I'm putting inspection
ports in the bulkheads, do I also need limber holes?
2) Many people have emphasized the importance of washing eppoxy with soap
before painting, does it matter what kind? I would think soap residue might
be as much problem a the amine blush from the epoxy.
3) I 've reviewed the rigging design on Mr. Bolgers plan and the lug sail
rigging advice on Mr. Michilak's site but I'm not thrilled by the sheet line
plans for a double-ender. Running the sheet through the rudder looks to me
like an awful lot of stress on a weak area. Has anyone tried a bridle?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Kathleen O'Donnell
odonnellkathleen@...
"John Bell" <jmbell@...> wrote:
According to the few people I've discussed Micro with, it is an all
around great boat. That does not mean they don't have some
criticisms, though.
The biggest complaint is that the mainmast is difficult to step. I've
got my mast ready to go, and I see where it could be intimidating. It
is quite a large unweildy timber to fish through the partners.
The other is that it is not the best "day-sailer on a trailer", since
it takes somewhere between 45 minutes to an hour each way to set up
and take down on the ramp. So if you plan to use it that way, you
might find it too much work to set up for a quick after-work sail.
This is a common criticism of just about all larger trailer
sailboats, though. I suppose if we wanted utter simplicity, we'd all
get jetskis instead of sailboats, wouldn't we? I'm probably going to
keep mine rigged on a trailer up at the lake to keep it simple.
Other than those two points, everything else has been positive.
John Bell
Kennesaw, GA
I'm closing in on finishing a Windsprint and I'm taking a lot of advice I've
found through this lsit to heart. I'm decking over fore and aft as several
builders have suggested. Before I close in I'd appreciate some advice on a
couple of issues.
1) What can be used for floatation besides expanding foam? I think I'd jump
off a bridge if I exploded the boat at this point. I'm putting inspection
ports in the bulkheads, do I also need limber holes?
2) Many people have emphasized the importance of washing eppoxy with soap
before painting, does it matter what kind? I would think soap residue might
be as much problem a the amine blush from the epoxy.
3) I 've reviewed the rigging design on Mr. Bolgers plan and the lug sail
rigging advice on Mr. Michilak's site but I'm not thrilled by the sheet line
plans for a double-ender. Running the sheet through the rudder looks to me
like an awful lot of stress on a weak area. Has anyone tried a bridle?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Kathleen O'Donnell
odonnellkathleen@...
"John Bell" <jmbell@...> wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------I'm building a Micro myself.
> Attachment:�
> MIME Type:�multipart/alternative
> ---------------------------------------------
According to the few people I've discussed Micro with, it is an all
around great boat. That does not mean they don't have some
criticisms, though.
The biggest complaint is that the mainmast is difficult to step. I've
got my mast ready to go, and I see where it could be intimidating. It
is quite a large unweildy timber to fish through the partners.
The other is that it is not the best "day-sailer on a trailer", since
it takes somewhere between 45 minutes to an hour each way to set up
and take down on the ramp. So if you plan to use it that way, you
might find it too much work to set up for a quick after-work sail.
This is a common criticism of just about all larger trailer
sailboats, though. I suppose if we wanted utter simplicity, we'd all
get jetskis instead of sailboats, wouldn't we? I'm probably going to
keep mine rigged on a trailer up at the lake to keep it simple.
Other than those two points, everything else has been positive.
John Bell
Kennesaw, GA
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, "Mark Paquette" <paquette@d...> wrote:
> I am waiting for the weather to warm up so I can complete my first
> boat. All I have to do is get some paint on her and haul her to
the
> water. For my first boat project I selected the MayFly12 designed
by
> Jim Michalak. It has been a lot of fun.
>
> Now for the next boat I have just about made up my mind on the
Micro.
> I have a couple of question for the group.
>
> First, I have seen almost no bad press on this design. Everything I
> have
> been able to find says how great this little boat is. So has anyone
> out there
> willing to share any bad experiences they have heard about this
boat?
> (Or bad experiences they had themselves in the Micro.)
>
> Second, any builders willig to share cost est. and building time
est.,
> would greatly help the cause...The "cause" you say...Yes, talking my
> wife into
> letting me start the next boat this summer, would be this "cause"...
>
> Thank you...
> Mark in MN
>
> PS. Me thinks this e-Groups thingy is great...
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