Re: [bolger] Storm Petrel -- ideas on cuddy, rails?
> I wrote PB&F to see if they had any ideas on enlarging the cuddy and the sailplan,Be aware that what you asked for with Storm Petrel is a 're-design',
> ...his design no. 640, the Birdwatcher-style Camper, instead. ;-) He was no help on the
> questions on Storm Petrel.
not as quick and easy a thing as it may appear.
Their backlog for designing (and redesigning) is very long. And they,
rightly so, hesitate to spend time redesigning an old boat design when
an existing design already meets your needs.
Very likely, there is already an existing Bolger design which closely
meets your 'wishlist'. I don't know what your boat needs are
exactly, but choosing an existing design probably is the best path,
versus creating a new design, or redesigning an old one.
Strom Petrel has alway fascinated me as a remarkable boat, but not as
a comfortable or as a fast boat. That steel plate keel is a clever,
cheap, easy and elegant thing.
Camper 640 is also a great design, faster and much more comfortable.
(And, compared with Storm Petrel, much more easily trailerable.)
For a quick and dirty fix you might look at the way I handled the hatch on a dinghy I built.
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/Misc.html
The bungee cord is secured to the deck on the port side, and to the hatch, by cheap little plastic fairleads. On my setup, a third fairlead provides a place for the hook. If you wanted to free the hatch from below, that anchor could be pivoted so that the bungee sprung free when it was turned. Securing the hatch would be from on-deck only.
Improvements to my setup would include: pick a paint that does dry eventually so the hatch isn't glued down, and allow enough gap for the wood to swell without locking the hatch.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/Misc.html
The bungee cord is secured to the deck on the port side, and to the hatch, by cheap little plastic fairleads. On my setup, a third fairlead provides a place for the hook. If you wanted to free the hatch from below, that anchor could be pivoted so that the bungee sprung free when it was turned. Securing the hatch would be from on-deck only.
Improvements to my setup would include: pick a paint that does dry eventually so the hatch isn't glued down, and allow enough gap for the wood to swell without locking the hatch.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: The Peillet-Long Family
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 9:00 AM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Storm Petrel -- ideas on cuddy, rails?
Thanks, John and Krissie for your thoughts.
I considered, and had earlier discussed in this group, extending the
transom and bulkhead frames up to make stanchions for railings or
lifelines. After sketching it out I came to the conclusion that they
would be very vulnerable to damage with the boat tied up, especially
in Mediterranean marinas, where boats are tied up stern to the dock
and fender to fender. For now, I am thinking of trying the boat
without, and then maybe adding a modest stainless rail from marine
supply store components if necessary and as seems most handy from
experience.
If anyone has any photos of nicely-installed railings on comparably
sized sailboats, homebuilt or store-bought, please do post them or
send me a link.
I hadn't thought about the problem of going forward to handle the
anchor, though the almost 200 lbs of steel in the keel should help
some in terms of stability. I'll let you know when I try it. One
advantage of keeping the box top hatch as designed instead of a more
elaborate cuddy top is that it can be loose or hinged in any
direction and easily replaced with an ordinary flat hatch if the
cuddy is not actually used as such. That would eliminate that
problem, if it is a problem, and give more sprawling space, too.
I don't really want to tackle any major modifications to the cuddy,
since I want to build quickly (stick to the plans!) and don't want to
lose the simplicity of the design.
I am thinking that I would want to hinge the box top hatch, perhaps
something like a Griffiths hatch, which makes me wonder how to close
it. With the possibility that one or more people (ok, very small
people) might be inside, I'll need a way to secure the hatch that can
still be opened immediately from inside or out. I have a few ideas,
but I'd appreciate any suggestions on that front as well.
Regards all,
Matthew
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks, John and Krissie for your thoughts.
I considered, and had earlier discussed in this group, extending the
transom and bulkhead frames up to make stanchions for railings or
lifelines. After sketching it out I came to the conclusion that they
would be very vulnerable to damage with the boat tied up, especially
in Mediterranean marinas, where boats are tied up stern to the dock
and fender to fender. For now, I am thinking of trying the boat
without, and then maybe adding a modest stainless rail from marine
supply store components if necessary and as seems most handy from
experience.
If anyone has any photos of nicely-installed railings on comparably
sized sailboats, homebuilt or store-bought, please do post them or
send me a link.
I hadn't thought about the problem of going forward to handle the
anchor, though the almost 200 lbs of steel in the keel should help
some in terms of stability. I'll let you know when I try it. One
advantage of keeping the box top hatch as designed instead of a more
elaborate cuddy top is that it can be loose or hinged in any
direction and easily replaced with an ordinary flat hatch if the
cuddy is not actually used as such. That would eliminate that
problem, if it is a problem, and give more sprawling space, too.
I don't really want to tackle any major modifications to the cuddy,
since I want to build quickly (stick to the plans!) and don't want to
lose the simplicity of the design.
I am thinking that I would want to hinge the box top hatch, perhaps
something like a Griffiths hatch, which makes me wonder how to close
it. With the possibility that one or more people (ok, very small
people) might be inside, I'll need a way to secure the hatch that can
still be opened immediately from inside or out. I have a few ideas,
but I'd appreciate any suggestions on that front as well.
Regards all,
Matthew
I considered, and had earlier discussed in this group, extending the
transom and bulkhead frames up to make stanchions for railings or
lifelines. After sketching it out I came to the conclusion that they
would be very vulnerable to damage with the boat tied up, especially
in Mediterranean marinas, where boats are tied up stern to the dock
and fender to fender. For now, I am thinking of trying the boat
without, and then maybe adding a modest stainless rail from marine
supply store components if necessary and as seems most handy from
experience.
If anyone has any photos of nicely-installed railings on comparably
sized sailboats, homebuilt or store-bought, please do post them or
send me a link.
I hadn't thought about the problem of going forward to handle the
anchor, though the almost 200 lbs of steel in the keel should help
some in terms of stability. I'll let you know when I try it. One
advantage of keeping the box top hatch as designed instead of a more
elaborate cuddy top is that it can be loose or hinged in any
direction and easily replaced with an ordinary flat hatch if the
cuddy is not actually used as such. That would eliminate that
problem, if it is a problem, and give more sprawling space, too.
I don't really want to tackle any major modifications to the cuddy,
since I want to build quickly (stick to the plans!) and don't want to
lose the simplicity of the design.
I am thinking that I would want to hinge the box top hatch, perhaps
something like a Griffiths hatch, which makes me wonder how to close
it. With the possibility that one or more people (ok, very small
people) might be inside, I'll need a way to secure the hatch that can
still be opened immediately from inside or out. I have a few ideas,
but I'd appreciate any suggestions on that front as well.
Regards all,
Matthew
Somewhere off in the dusty past, I remember some concerns regarding
storm petrel, some of which came from PCB. Anybody remember specifics?
If not the look of Camper, how about Centenial? Clyde
Nels wrote:
storm petrel, some of which came from PCB. Anybody remember specifics?
If not the look of Camper, how about Centenial? Clyde
Nels wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>, "The[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Peillet-Long Family"
> <owlnmole@...> wrote:
> >
> > Well, I have come full circle and returned to my original choice,
> that is, to build a Storm
> > Petrel this summer for use here in Tunisia. I wrote PB&F to see if
> they had any ideas on
> > enlarging the cuddy and the sailplan, as Phil has suggested I do
> "when ready to cut wood"
> > when I bought the plans eight years ago. Phil wrote back promptly
> to suggest...that I build
> > his design no. 640, the Birdwatcher-style Camper, instead. ;-) He
> was no help on the
> > questions on Storm Petrel.
>
> I expect he felt he had already answered your question previously?
>
> I have CAMPER plans and that is about the only logical Bolger design
> that meets your requirements in that length and hull design. The two
> hulls are very similar - simple skiffs.
>
> STORM PETREL is designed differently from the interior outwards. It is
> essentially a 61/2 foot "refuge chamber" scow with a 4-foot pointy
> extension on the bow and raised seating added on to the stern, whereas
> CAMPER is a completely open hull with raised topsides and partial
> decking. You sit on the bottom or on portable rowing seats inside.
>
> To get more space inside the SP "refuge chamber", one could extend the
> cabin both forward and to each side but then you no longer have a
> STORM PETREL, as I think a part of the original design concept is to
> have deck space around it to get to the bow well safely, without
> compromising the "cork in a bottle" and self-righting seaworthy concept.
>
> I have to go along with the Master here. CAMPER is the best choice for
> what you want - a protected play pen for kids!
>
> So I don't think he was "putting you off", but was stating what he
> felt was your best bet.
>
> Nels
>
>
well you can rase the the deck forward as in from the
start of the "cuddy" to the bow and then rase and
widen the cuddy. For you mast make a socket that is
will slide into through the cabin top. Have the socket
got from cabin top to your keel.
Deck over the sides so they are about 4 inches wide
and then have some stations made that bolt to the deck
to hold up your life lines to keep the kids and
people in the boat.
Blessings Krissie
--- The Peillet-Long Family <owlnmole@...>
wrote:
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
start of the "cuddy" to the bow and then rase and
widen the cuddy. For you mast make a socket that is
will slide into through the cabin top. Have the socket
got from cabin top to your keel.
Deck over the sides so they are about 4 inches wide
and then have some stations made that bolt to the deck
to hold up your life lines to keep the kids and
people in the boat.
Blessings Krissie
--- The Peillet-Long Family <owlnmole@...>
wrote:
> Well, I have come full circle and returned to my____________________________________________________________________________________
> original choice, that is, to build a Storm
> Petrel this summer for use here in Tunisia. I wrote
> PB&F to see if they had any ideas on
> enlarging the cuddy and the sailplan, as Phil has
> suggested I do "when ready to cut wood"
> when I bought the plans eight years ago. Phil wrote
> back promptly to suggest...that I build
> his design no. 640, the Birdwatcher-style Camper,
> instead. ;-) He was no help on the
> questions on Storm Petrel.
>
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
Here is a link to building a storm petrel on Fritz Funk's web site
http://209.193.28.16/Boats/StormPetrel/
HJ
John and Kathy Trussell wrote:
http://209.193.28.16/Boats/StormPetrel/
HJ
John and Kathy Trussell wrote:
> A quick review of the Storm Petral plans suggest thet the boat is intended to be sailed while sitting on the side benches with the crew's feet in the footwell. The sail plan drawing shows the crew sitting in the front of the cockpit (and certainly, sitting in the back of the boat would trim it down by the stern which would degrade performance).
>
> Bear in mind that there are times when a boat this size will benefit from hiking and that railings prevent hiking. Therefore, you might consider hiking straps rather than rails. If you want rails, I would suggest extending the side frames at the transom and the main bulkhead with a railing connecting them.
>
> If you want a bigger cabin, you could extend the 'hatch' aft to the main bulkhead.
>
> One of the shortcomings of pocket 'cruising' boats is that sooner or later, you will need to anchor and I don't see any particularly good way to get forward to tend the anchor. Therefore, if I were building a Storm Petral, I think I would hinge the hatch on one side. With the hatch open, I could then move forward while keeping my weight in the center of the boat. I would also be in the boat rather than on top of the boat. Just a thought...
>
>
>
A quick review of the Storm Petral plans suggest thet the boat is intended to be sailed while sitting on the side benches with the crew's feet in the footwell. The sail plan drawing shows the crew sitting in the front of the cockpit (and certainly, sitting in the back of the boat would trim it down by the stern which would degrade performance).
Bear in mind that there are times when a boat this size will benefit from hiking and that railings prevent hiking. Therefore, you might consider hiking straps rather than rails. If you want rails, I would suggest extending the side frames at the transom and the main bulkhead with a railing connecting them.
If you want a bigger cabin, you could extend the 'hatch' aft to the main bulkhead.
One of the shortcomings of pocket 'cruising' boats is that sooner or later, you will need to anchor and I don't see any particularly good way to get forward to tend the anchor. Therefore, if I were building a Storm Petral, I think I would hinge the hatch on one side. With the hatch open, I could then move forward while keeping my weight in the center of the boat. I would also be in the boat rather than on top of the boat. Just a thought...
JohnT
Bear in mind that there are times when a boat this size will benefit from hiking and that railings prevent hiking. Therefore, you might consider hiking straps rather than rails. If you want rails, I would suggest extending the side frames at the transom and the main bulkhead with a railing connecting them.
If you want a bigger cabin, you could extend the 'hatch' aft to the main bulkhead.
One of the shortcomings of pocket 'cruising' boats is that sooner or later, you will need to anchor and I don't see any particularly good way to get forward to tend the anchor. Therefore, if I were building a Storm Petral, I think I would hinge the hatch on one side. With the hatch open, I could then move forward while keeping my weight in the center of the boat. I would also be in the boat rather than on top of the boat. Just a thought...
JohnT
----- Original Message -----
From: The Peillet-Long Family
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 12:18 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Storm Petrel -- ideas on cuddy, rails?
Thanks for your comments, Nels. I don't deny the advantages of the
Birdwatcher layout in Camper, but I have a few reservations:
1) I think it would be hard to explain and harder to resell, which I
will almost certanly have to do in two years.
2) I think Camper and many of Phil's more recent designs have lost
some of the elegant simplcity that is so appealing in Storm Petrel.
3) I just can't abide the looks, though I will reserve final
judgement until I see one in real life, or at least in photos.
That said, I already have Storm Petrel plans, the lateen sail should
raise no eyebrows here and the small area should suit the local dead-
calm-or-strong-winds. Besides, I have wanted to build one for years,
and that's probably the most compelling reason of all, after all,
this is supposed to be fun!
When I ordered those plans years ago, I had sketched an extended
cuddy top like a solid spray hood, which Phil approved in principle.
See the Storm Petrel folder in the Files section of this group for
cartoon (though ignore the oval portlights, which look nice but I
now realize would allow my feet to look outside). I may or may not
go with that, though, in the spirit of stick-to-the-plans-to-build-
faster.
I am still ruminating on rail ideas, though, and still open to
suggestions.
Cheers,
Matthew
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
> <owlnmole@> wrote:
> >
> > Well, I have come full circle and returned to my original choice,
> that is, to build a Storm
> > Petrel this summer for use here in Tunisia. I wrote PB&F to see
if
> they had any ideas on
> > enlarging the cuddy and the sailplan, as Phil has suggested I do
> "when ready to cut wood"
> > when I bought the plans eight years ago. Phil wrote back promptly
> to suggest...that I build
> > his design no. 640, the Birdwatcher-style Camper, instead. ;-)
He
> was no help on the
> > questions on Storm Petrel.
>
> I expect he felt he had already answered your question previously?
>
> I have CAMPER plans and that is about the only logical Bolger design
> that meets your requirements in that length and hull design. The two
> hulls are very similar - simple skiffs.
>
> STORM PETREL is designed differently from the interior outwards. It
is
> essentially a 61/2 foot "refuge chamber" scow with a 4-foot pointy
> extension on the bow and raised seating added on to the stern,
whereas
> CAMPER is a completely open hull with raised topsides and partial
> decking. You sit on the bottom or on portable rowing seats inside.
>
> To get more space inside the SP "refuge chamber", one could extend
the
> cabin both forward and to each side but then you no longer have a
> STORM PETREL, as I think a part of the original design concept is to
> have deck space around it to get to the bow well safely, without
> compromising the "cork in a bottle" and self-righting seaworthy
concept.
>
> I have to go along with the Master here. CAMPER is the best choice
for
> what you want - a protected play pen for kids!
>
> So I don't think he was "putting you off", but was stating what he
> felt was your best bet.
>
> Nels
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for your comments, Nels. I don't deny the advantages of the
Birdwatcher layout in Camper, but I have a few reservations:
1) I think it would be hard to explain and harder to resell, which I
will almost certanly have to do in two years.
2) I think Camper and many of Phil's more recent designs have lost
some of the elegant simplcity that is so appealing in Storm Petrel.
3) I just can't abide the looks, though I will reserve final
judgement until I see one in real life, or at least in photos.
That said, I already have Storm Petrel plans, the lateen sail should
raise no eyebrows here and the small area should suit the local dead-
calm-or-strong-winds. Besides, I have wanted to build one for years,
and that's probably the most compelling reason of all, after all,
this is supposed to be fun!
When I ordered those plans years ago, I had sketched an extended
cuddy top like a solid spray hood, which Phil approved in principle.
See the Storm Petrel folder in the Files section of this group for
cartoon (though ignore the oval portlights, which look nice but I
now realize would allow my feet to look outside). I may or may not
go with that, though, in the spirit of stick-to-the-plans-to-build-
faster.
I am still ruminating on rail ideas, though, and still open to
suggestions.
Cheers,
Matthew
Birdwatcher layout in Camper, but I have a few reservations:
1) I think it would be hard to explain and harder to resell, which I
will almost certanly have to do in two years.
2) I think Camper and many of Phil's more recent designs have lost
some of the elegant simplcity that is so appealing in Storm Petrel.
3) I just can't abide the looks, though I will reserve final
judgement until I see one in real life, or at least in photos.
That said, I already have Storm Petrel plans, the lateen sail should
raise no eyebrows here and the small area should suit the local dead-
calm-or-strong-winds. Besides, I have wanted to build one for years,
and that's probably the most compelling reason of all, after all,
this is supposed to be fun!
When I ordered those plans years ago, I had sketched an extended
cuddy top like a solid spray hood, which Phil approved in principle.
See the Storm Petrel folder in the Files section of this group for
cartoon (though ignore the oval portlights, which look nice but I
now realize would allow my feet to look outside). I may or may not
go with that, though, in the spirit of stick-to-the-plans-to-build-
faster.
I am still ruminating on rail ideas, though, and still open to
suggestions.
Cheers,
Matthew
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
> <owlnmole@> wrote:
> >
> > Well, I have come full circle and returned to my original choice,
> that is, to build a Storm
> > Petrel this summer for use here in Tunisia. I wrote PB&F to see
if
> they had any ideas on
> > enlarging the cuddy and the sailplan, as Phil has suggested I do
> "when ready to cut wood"
> > when I bought the plans eight years ago. Phil wrote back promptly
> to suggest...that I build
> > his design no. 640, the Birdwatcher-style Camper, instead. ;-)
He
> was no help on the
> > questions on Storm Petrel.
>
> I expect he felt he had already answered your question previously?
>
> I have CAMPER plans and that is about the only logical Bolger design
> that meets your requirements in that length and hull design. The two
> hulls are very similar - simple skiffs.
>
> STORM PETREL is designed differently from the interior outwards. It
is
> essentially a 61/2 foot "refuge chamber" scow with a 4-foot pointy
> extension on the bow and raised seating added on to the stern,
whereas
> CAMPER is a completely open hull with raised topsides and partial
> decking. You sit on the bottom or on portable rowing seats inside.
>
> To get more space inside the SP "refuge chamber", one could extend
the
> cabin both forward and to each side but then you no longer have a
> STORM PETREL, as I think a part of the original design concept is to
> have deck space around it to get to the bow well safely, without
> compromising the "cork in a bottle" and self-righting seaworthy
concept.
>
> I have to go along with the Master here. CAMPER is the best choice
for
> what you want - a protected play pen for kids!
>
> So I don't think he was "putting you off", but was stating what he
> felt was your best bet.
>
> Nels
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "The Peillet-Long Family"
<owlnmole@...> wrote:
I have CAMPER plans and that is about the only logical Bolger design
that meets your requirements in that length and hull design. The two
hulls are very similar - simple skiffs.
STORM PETREL is designed differently from the interior outwards. It is
essentially a 61/2 foot "refuge chamber" scow with a 4-foot pointy
extension on the bow and raised seating added on to the stern, whereas
CAMPER is a completely open hull with raised topsides and partial
decking. You sit on the bottom or on portable rowing seats inside.
To get more space inside the SP "refuge chamber", one could extend the
cabin both forward and to each side but then you no longer have a
STORM PETREL, as I think a part of the original design concept is to
have deck space around it to get to the bow well safely, without
compromising the "cork in a bottle" and self-righting seaworthy concept.
I have to go along with the Master here. CAMPER is the best choice for
what you want - a protected play pen for kids!
So I don't think he was "putting you off", but was stating what he
felt was your best bet.
Nels
<owlnmole@...> wrote:
>that is, to build a Storm
> Well, I have come full circle and returned to my original choice,
> Petrel this summer for use here in Tunisia. I wrote PB&F to see ifthey had any ideas on
> enlarging the cuddy and the sailplan, as Phil has suggested I do"when ready to cut wood"
> when I bought the plans eight years ago. Phil wrote back promptlyto suggest...that I build
> his design no. 640, the Birdwatcher-style Camper, instead. ;-) Hewas no help on the
> questions on Storm Petrel.I expect he felt he had already answered your question previously?
I have CAMPER plans and that is about the only logical Bolger design
that meets your requirements in that length and hull design. The two
hulls are very similar - simple skiffs.
STORM PETREL is designed differently from the interior outwards. It is
essentially a 61/2 foot "refuge chamber" scow with a 4-foot pointy
extension on the bow and raised seating added on to the stern, whereas
CAMPER is a completely open hull with raised topsides and partial
decking. You sit on the bottom or on portable rowing seats inside.
To get more space inside the SP "refuge chamber", one could extend the
cabin both forward and to each side but then you no longer have a
STORM PETREL, as I think a part of the original design concept is to
have deck space around it to get to the bow well safely, without
compromising the "cork in a bottle" and self-righting seaworthy concept.
I have to go along with the Master here. CAMPER is the best choice for
what you want - a protected play pen for kids!
So I don't think he was "putting you off", but was stating what he
felt was your best bet.
Nels
Well, I have come full circle and returned to my original choice, that is, to build a Storm
Petrel this summer for use here in Tunisia. I wrote PB&F to see if they had any ideas on
enlarging the cuddy and the sailplan, as Phil has suggested I do "when ready to cut wood"
when I bought the plans eight years ago. Phil wrote back promptly to suggest...that I build
his design no. 640, the Birdwatcher-style Camper, instead. ;-) He was no help on the
questions on Storm Petrel.
So, as I sit down to calculate my orders from the lumberyard and online marine supply
stores, let me ask the group again, does anyone have any ideas on enlarging the cuddy
and/or installing some sort of railings to keep folks in the boat on Storm Petrel?
For anyone who is not familiar with the design, here are some links:
<http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/petrel.pdf>
<http://www.belljar.net/bolgersp.htm>
<http://209.193.28.16/Boats/StormPetrel/>
Any and all feedback welcome!
Cheers,
Matthew
Petrel this summer for use here in Tunisia. I wrote PB&F to see if they had any ideas on
enlarging the cuddy and the sailplan, as Phil has suggested I do "when ready to cut wood"
when I bought the plans eight years ago. Phil wrote back promptly to suggest...that I build
his design no. 640, the Birdwatcher-style Camper, instead. ;-) He was no help on the
questions on Storm Petrel.
So, as I sit down to calculate my orders from the lumberyard and online marine supply
stores, let me ask the group again, does anyone have any ideas on enlarging the cuddy
and/or installing some sort of railings to keep folks in the boat on Storm Petrel?
For anyone who is not familiar with the design, here are some links:
<http://www.boatdesign.com/postings/Files/petrel.pdf>
<http://www.belljar.net/bolgersp.htm>
<http://209.193.28.16/Boats/StormPetrel/>
Any and all feedback welcome!
Cheers,
Matthew