Re: [bolger] Floatation Alternative
One of the problems run into using expanding polyurethane
foam is that, since open topped pours are best, if you have
to sand or sureform it fair, the nice, close grained surface
is destroyed.
Apart from just painting it, an obvious way to get back a
seal is epoxy coating, but that soaks in about 1/8". I had
this "Snow Roof Systems Roofer's Best Elastometric Roof
Coating," tried once to replace the black, thick and gummy
Wet Patch stuff and jumped for joy reading right on the can,
"Ideal for use on polyurethane foam." ( Don't ask me where
they have polyurethane foam roofs! )
This is water based. No VOC's. Not too heavy, a very thick
and creamy white paint. Very easy to use and clean up.
There's reinforcing tape for bigger holes. It handles epoxy
smears without side effects.
This is made by Oregon Research and Development Corp., so
it's easy to get here in Portland. If you want it but don't
see it or something similar, try 800-345-0809.
Having spent as much on 6 cubic feet of foam as for the
plywood in this boat, the end chambers are done and I feel
safer already. Finally gonna get back on the water!
Mark
foam is that, since open topped pours are best, if you have
to sand or sureform it fair, the nice, close grained surface
is destroyed.
Apart from just painting it, an obvious way to get back a
seal is epoxy coating, but that soaks in about 1/8". I had
this "Snow Roof Systems Roofer's Best Elastometric Roof
Coating," tried once to replace the black, thick and gummy
Wet Patch stuff and jumped for joy reading right on the can,
"Ideal for use on polyurethane foam." ( Don't ask me where
they have polyurethane foam roofs! )
This is water based. No VOC's. Not too heavy, a very thick
and creamy white paint. Very easy to use and clean up.
There's reinforcing tape for bigger holes. It handles epoxy
smears without side effects.
This is made by Oregon Research and Development Corp., so
it's easy to get here in Portland. If you want it but don't
see it or something similar, try 800-345-0809.
Having spent as much on 6 cubic feet of foam as for the
plywood in this boat, the end chambers are done and I feel
safer already. Finally gonna get back on the water!
Mark
Theory:
The answer for a funoodle is really quite simple.
Most important is the volume of water permanently displaced. The
density is only how much the displacer weighs. Air is nice,
since it doesn't weigh much more than its container You
could use bricks if they didn't weigh so much.
I improvised a little raft for an experiment to float and
photograph a battery, but who needs it?
With the math done properly, each funoodle is only .2 cubic
feet. 20% the weight of water means a 5 foot 'noodle
floats 12 pounds
Practice:
A funoodle weighs just 80 grams, a little more than 1/4
pound. It takes 5 to fill a cubic ft, and that will weigh 1
1/4 pounds or 1.76 kg.
I did conduct a Water Absorption Test:
Samples of self-sealed, Titan Foam'n'Fill and soft Nomafoam
(that Funoodle stuff) each weighing 11gm
were subjected to continuous, forced submersion in cold,
fresh, water for a period of 7 days. After surface
drying, both again, 11gm.
I paid about $90 US for the Titan and disposables to put 4
cubic feet into my boat. Funnoodles would have been just
under $40.
So it still looks to me that KidPower Funoodles, those
aeated polyethelene, wiggly things, are a realistic
floatation alternative that provides -if not the highest
grade- then, similar safety to the the other foams.
There are lots of ways to use them. Sliced down one side,
the hollow orange ones grip a 1/2" edge of plywood very firmly.
Too hot in Portland this week to consider pouring gas on anything,
Mark
Mark Albanese wrote:
The answer for a funoodle is really quite simple.
Most important is the volume of water permanently displaced. The
density is only how much the displacer weighs. Air is nice,
since it doesn't weigh much more than its container You
could use bricks if they didn't weigh so much.
I improvised a little raft for an experiment to float and
photograph a battery, but who needs it?
With the math done properly, each funoodle is only .2 cubic
feet. 20% the weight of water means a 5 foot 'noodle
floats 12 pounds
Practice:
A funoodle weighs just 80 grams, a little more than 1/4
pound. It takes 5 to fill a cubic ft, and that will weigh 1
1/4 pounds or 1.76 kg.
I did conduct a Water Absorption Test:
Samples of self-sealed, Titan Foam'n'Fill and soft Nomafoam
(that Funoodle stuff) each weighing 11gm
were subjected to continuous, forced submersion in cold,
fresh, water for a period of 7 days. After surface
drying, both again, 11gm.
I paid about $90 US for the Titan and disposables to put 4
cubic feet into my boat. Funnoodles would have been just
under $40.
So it still looks to me that KidPower Funoodles, those
aeated polyethelene, wiggly things, are a realistic
floatation alternative that provides -if not the highest
grade- then, similar safety to the the other foams.
There are lots of ways to use them. Sliced down one side,
the hollow orange ones grip a 1/2" edge of plywood very firmly.
Too hot in Portland this week to consider pouring gas on anything,
Mark
Mark Albanese wrote:
>
> A couple of thoughts on using 'noodles in the end chambers:
>
> Rot: The little logs could be stacked either vertically,
> side to side or for'n'aft, but in either case there will be
> some space between. To prevent a fetid atmosphere I think
> front to back is best. I'd leave about an inch at both ends
> in order to promote circulation.
>
> Weight: If one wants to trust the boat (or your life!) to
> this, we need to predict performance. This is a pretty dense
> foam. The volume of a 2.75" x 5' cylinder is about 1.6 cubic
> feet. If I'm correct that each floats 30#, then it is much
> heavier than the 2# density premium expanding products.
>
> I have four cubic feet in my boat. It weighs only 8-10
> pounds, yet floats 240. A funoodle made of the stuff would
> float not 30# but 99#, ad be, I guess 3 x heavier. That
> means the real 'noodle is about 6+ pound density foam, a
> common value.
>
> The Windsprint plans show 1.5 cubic feet floatation either
> end. That space filled with noodles floats not 180#, but
> only 60# with the 'noodles. Along with the positive
> floatation of the wood in a hundred pound boat that's just
> enough to float high awash, but provides for no reserve.
>
> That's why when considering floating boat and a pair of 60#
> batteries, plus a little, the only choice was the very best.
>
> Leave this as a cautionary tale, please, 'till I get some
> weights and tests done with a brand new 'noodle.'
>
> Mark
>
>
> I wrote:
> >
> > P.S.
> >
> > I forgot to write what I think is the best alternative
> > floatation you can buy: 'Funoodles.' Get them at the toy
> > store, couple bucks a piece. It's the 16th best selling toy
> > in the USA.
> >
> > They are a mass market version of the closed cell Ethafoam
> > they make kayak bulkheads with. 3" x about 5', round, they
> > float enough to boost the flesh of a 200# person, just like
> > a life jacket. I think that means they have about 30#
> > positive flotation each. Some have a hole down the middle,
> > some are solid. Come in many colors.
> >
> > I've seen them used split and glued as wales along the
> > sheer. I've tied them on like fenders and made a nice,
> > safety orange, curved-corner coaming for my 'Cheapest Ever'
> > kayak. They're pretty durable.
> >
> > They saw very nicely with a little, fine toothed back saw.
> > You could cut them to size and stuff them in the end
> > chambers with little dabs of glue between to hold it all together.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > Kathleen O'Donnell wrote:
> >
> > > 1) What can be used for floatation besides expanding foam? i
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Porsche Boxter. You and a friend. Nine dream days from
> > Napa Valley to Beverly Hills. Provided by CarsDirect.com.
> > Click to enter.
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/4882/10/_/3457/_/961479443/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Bolger rules:
> > - no cursing
> > - stay on topic
> > - use punctuation
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> $BCg4V$H$O$8$a$k!"Cg4V$r8+$D$1$k!!#e%0%k!<%W(B
> $B!!!!!!!V%0%k!<%W%a!<%k$7$^$;$s$+!)!W(B
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> $B!!(Bhttp://www.egroups.co.jp/info/features.html
>http://click.egroups.com/1/3411/13/_/3457/_/961589281/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules:
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> I have four cubic feet in my boat. It weighs only 8-10Should read:
> pounds, yet floats 240. A funoodle made of the stuff would
> float not 30# but 99#, **ad be, I guess 3 x heavier**. That
> means the real 'noodle is about 6+ pound density foam, a
> common value.
I have four cubic feet in my boat. It weighs only 8-10
pounds, yet floats 240. A funoodle made of the stuff would
float not 30# but 99#, **and weigh only about 1/3 as
much.** That
means the real noodle is about 6+ pounds density foam, a
common value.
Sorry.
A couple of thoughts on using 'noodles in the end chambers:
Rot: The little logs could be stacked either vertically,
side to side or for'n'aft, but in either case there will be
some space between. To prevent a fetid atmosphere I think
front to back is best. I'd leave about an inch at both ends
in order to promote circulation.
Weight: If one wants to trust the boat (or your life!) to
this, we need to predict performance. This is a pretty dense
foam. The volume of a 2.75" x 5' cylinder is about 1.6 cubic
feet. If I'm correct that each floats 30#, then it is much
heavier than the 2# density premium expanding products.
I have four cubic feet in my boat. It weighs only 8-10
pounds, yet floats 240. A funoodle made of the stuff would
float not 30# but 99#, ad be, I guess 3 x heavier. That
means the real 'noodle is about 6+ pound density foam, a
common value.
The Windsprint plans show 1.5 cubic feet floatation either
end. That space filled with noodles floats not 180#, but
only 60# with the 'noodles. Along with the positive
floatation of the wood in a hundred pound boat that's just
enough to float high awash, but provides for no reserve.
That's why when considering floating boat and a pair of 60#
batteries, plus a little, the only choice was the very best.
Leave this as a cautionary tale, please, 'till I get some
weights and tests done with a brand new 'noodle.'
Mark
I wrote:
Rot: The little logs could be stacked either vertically,
side to side or for'n'aft, but in either case there will be
some space between. To prevent a fetid atmosphere I think
front to back is best. I'd leave about an inch at both ends
in order to promote circulation.
Weight: If one wants to trust the boat (or your life!) to
this, we need to predict performance. This is a pretty dense
foam. The volume of a 2.75" x 5' cylinder is about 1.6 cubic
feet. If I'm correct that each floats 30#, then it is much
heavier than the 2# density premium expanding products.
I have four cubic feet in my boat. It weighs only 8-10
pounds, yet floats 240. A funoodle made of the stuff would
float not 30# but 99#, ad be, I guess 3 x heavier. That
means the real 'noodle is about 6+ pound density foam, a
common value.
The Windsprint plans show 1.5 cubic feet floatation either
end. That space filled with noodles floats not 180#, but
only 60# with the 'noodles. Along with the positive
floatation of the wood in a hundred pound boat that's just
enough to float high awash, but provides for no reserve.
That's why when considering floating boat and a pair of 60#
batteries, plus a little, the only choice was the very best.
Leave this as a cautionary tale, please, 'till I get some
weights and tests done with a brand new 'noodle.'
Mark
I wrote:
>
> P.S.
>
> I forgot to write what I think is the best alternative
> floatation you can buy: 'Funoodles.' Get them at the toy
> store, couple bucks a piece. It's the 16th best selling toy
> in the USA.
>
> They are a mass market version of the closed cell Ethafoam
> they make kayak bulkheads with. 3" x about 5', round, they
> float enough to boost the flesh of a 200# person, just like
> a life jacket. I think that means they have about 30#
> positive flotation each. Some have a hole down the middle,
> some are solid. Come in many colors.
>
> I've seen them used split and glued as wales along the
> sheer. I've tied them on like fenders and made a nice,
> safety orange, curved-corner coaming for my 'Cheapest Ever'
> kayak. They're pretty durable.
>
> They saw very nicely with a little, fine toothed back saw.
> You could cut them to size and stuff them in the end
> chambers with little dabs of glue between to hold it all together.
>
> Mark
>
> Kathleen O'Donnell wrote:
>
> > 1) What can be used for floatation besides expanding foam? i
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Porsche Boxter. You and a friend. Nine dream days from
> Napa Valley to Beverly Hills. Provided by CarsDirect.com.
> Click to enter.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/4882/10/_/3457/_/961479443/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules:
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Yup, used them for floatation in my son's kidyak.....
Bill Derby
Mark Albanese wrote:
Bill Derby
Mark Albanese wrote:
> P.S.
>
> I forgot to write what I think is the best alternative
> floatation you can buy: 'Funoodles.' Get them at the toy
> store, couple bucks a piece. It's the 16th best selling toy
> in the USA.
>
> They are a mass market version of the closed cell Ethafoam
> they make kayak bulkheads with. 3" x about 5', round, they
> float enough to boost the flesh of a 200# person, just like
> a life jacket. I think that means they have about 30#
> positive flotation each. Some have a hole down the middle,
> some are solid. Come in many colors.
>
> I've seen them used split and glued as wales along the
> sheer. I've tied them on like fenders and made a nice,
> safety orange, curved-corner coaming for my 'Cheapest Ever'
> kayak. They're pretty durable.
>
> They saw very nicely with a little, fine toothed back saw.
> You could cut them to size and stuff them in the end
> chambers with little dabs of glue between to hold it all together.
>
> Mark
>
> Kathleen O'Donnell wrote:
>
> > 1) What can be used for floatation besides expanding foam? i
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bolger rules:
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Fritz used them on his beaching wheels on the sneakeasy
http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Sneakeasy/amphib/amphib.htm
HJ
Mark Albanese wrote:
% Harrywelshman@...
http://www.alaska.net/~fritzf/Boats/Sneakeasy/amphib/amphib.htm
HJ
Mark Albanese wrote:
>_ _ _ _ _
> P.S.
>
> I forgot to write what I think is the best alternative
> floatation you can buy: 'Funoodles.' Get them at the toy
> store, couple bucks a piece. It's the 16th best selling toy
> in the USA.
>
> They are a mass market version of the closed cell Ethafoam
> they make kayak bulkheads with. 3" x about 5', round, they
> float enough to boost the flesh of a 200# person, just like
> a life jacket. I think that means they have about 30#
> positive flotation each. Some have a hole down the middle,
> some are solid. Come in many colors.
>
> I've seen them used split and glued as wales along the
> sheer. I've tied them on like fenders and made a nice,
> safety orange, curved-corner coaming for my 'Cheapest Ever'
> kayak. They're pretty durable.
>
> They saw very nicely with a little, fine toothed back saw.
> You could cut them to size and stuff them in the end
> chambers with little dabs of glue between to hold it all together.
>
> Mark
>
% Harrywelshman@...