Re: Where to purchase Bolger Micro Plans?
Thanks Nels,
Yes, I have mailed PB&F to order the Micro (& Navigator) plans.
Cheers,
Paul.
Yes, I have mailed PB&F to order the Micro (& Navigator) plans.
Cheers,
Paul.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mrfirkin" <thurcros@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Anyone know what PB&F charge for a set of Micro plans (and the
> > Navigator upgrade sheet) these days?
> >
> Hi Paul,
>
> I expect you will be looking at about 200 USD for the complete set
> that shows about 4 different combinations of completing a MICRO or
NAV
> version. $150 for the basic plans and $50 for the NAV modifications.
>
> Are you aware of the Paloma file in the Bolger 7 storage area?
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/files/
>
> It shows a photo of the interior. Looks to me like Roger constructed
> what is basically a "hard doghouse" over the existing companionway
and
> then some other changes like the hatch forward. None of this follows
> the NAVIGATOR plans specifically although he conferred with the
> designer. Nor does his use of a 2-position snotter attachment using
> the original sailplan conform with the NAVIGATOR plans.
>
> If you were to build a MICRO NAVIGATOR to the most current plans
from
> PCB&F it would be the "one and only" version in the world. That is -
> if one includes the fully battened enlarged mizzen and tabernacled
> mast, anti-slap bow pad, foreward companionway etc., etc.
>
> But it would also likely cost at least twice as much as the regular
> standard MICRO, and take alomost twice as long to complete all the
> details.
>
> Therefore, I would suggest Roger's "version" to be a viable
compromise
> if time and resources are a factor.
>
> Either way you would likely be very pleased with the results.
>
> Nels
>
This is a reoccurring topic; who owns the rights to sell PB&F plans.
Indeed 'copyright' and boats is an extremely complex topic. The
Bolger relationship with 'Common Sense' dates back to Elroe La Rowe
in the 1980's.
PB&F have expressed an opinion on this in message 1250, look way back
in the group archive.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/1250
Indeed 'copyright' and boats is an extremely complex topic. The
Bolger relationship with 'Common Sense' dates back to Elroe La Rowe
in the 1980's.
PB&F have expressed an opinion on this in message 1250, look way back
in the group archive.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/message/1250
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mrfirkin" <thurcros@...> wrote:
I expect you will be looking at about 200 USD for the complete set
that shows about 4 different combinations of completing a MICRO or NAV
version. $150 for the basic plans and $50 for the NAV modifications.
Are you aware of the Paloma file in the Bolger 7 storage area?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/files/
It shows a photo of the interior. Looks to me like Roger constructed
what is basically a "hard doghouse" over the existing companionway and
then some other changes like the hatch forward. None of this follows
the NAVIGATOR plans specifically although he conferred with the
designer. Nor does his use of a 2-position snotter attachment using
the original sailplan conform with the NAVIGATOR plans.
If you were to build a MICRO NAVIGATOR to the most current plans from
PCB&F it would be the "one and only" version in the world. That is -
if one includes the fully battened enlarged mizzen and tabernacled
mast, anti-slap bow pad, foreward companionway etc., etc.
But it would also likely cost at least twice as much as the regular
standard MICRO, and take alomost twice as long to complete all the
details.
Therefore, I would suggest Roger's "version" to be a viable compromise
if time and resources are a factor.
Either way you would likely be very pleased with the results.
Nels
>Hi Paul,
>
> Anyone know what PB&F charge for a set of Micro plans (and the
> Navigator upgrade sheet) these days?
>
I expect you will be looking at about 200 USD for the complete set
that shows about 4 different combinations of completing a MICRO or NAV
version. $150 for the basic plans and $50 for the NAV modifications.
Are you aware of the Paloma file in the Bolger 7 storage area?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/files/
It shows a photo of the interior. Looks to me like Roger constructed
what is basically a "hard doghouse" over the existing companionway and
then some other changes like the hatch forward. None of this follows
the NAVIGATOR plans specifically although he conferred with the
designer. Nor does his use of a 2-position snotter attachment using
the original sailplan conform with the NAVIGATOR plans.
If you were to build a MICRO NAVIGATOR to the most current plans from
PCB&F it would be the "one and only" version in the world. That is -
if one includes the fully battened enlarged mizzen and tabernacled
mast, anti-slap bow pad, foreward companionway etc., etc.
But it would also likely cost at least twice as much as the regular
standard MICRO, and take alomost twice as long to complete all the
details.
Therefore, I would suggest Roger's "version" to be a viable compromise
if time and resources are a factor.
Either way you would likely be very pleased with the results.
Nels
Hi Krissie,
Thanks for that. I had asked this question some time ago regarding
the Martha Jane upgrades.
Just that it is so tempting to just whizz off your credit card details
and have the plans in a few days (or immediately if PDF format).
But, I have decided to do it the old fashioned way and have sent a
letter to PB&F requesting price and payment method.
Then, I'll have to send another letter with my cheque/money order or
whatever .... Still, good things are worth the wait eh?
Cheers,
Paul.
PS,
Anyone know what PB&F charge for a set of Micro plans (and the
Navigator upgrade sheet) these days?
Thanks for that. I had asked this question some time ago regarding
the Martha Jane upgrades.
Just that it is so tempting to just whizz off your credit card details
and have the plans in a few days (or immediately if PDF format).
But, I have decided to do it the old fashioned way and have sent a
letter to PB&F requesting price and payment method.
Then, I'll have to send another letter with my cheque/money order or
whatever .... Still, good things are worth the wait eh?
Cheers,
Paul.
PS,
Anyone know what PB&F charge for a set of Micro plans (and the
Navigator upgrade sheet) these days?
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Paul the best thing you can do for yourself is get
> the plans from Mr Bolger. You help yourself in two
> ways, you get any updates to the design that may have
> been added over the years, and if you need help you
> can get help from the designer.
>
> Yes you need to deal with snail mail but I think over
> all it's a better deal for you and the designer.
>
> Blessings Krissie
>
> --- mrfirkin <thurcros@...> wrote:
>
> > G'day all,
> >
> > I want to purchase plans for a Micro.
> >
> > Who, Where, (apart from Mr Bolger himself) can I buy
> > plans from that
> > are originals, and not copies of copies of copies.
> >
> > I bought Martha Jane plans from Commonsense Boats
> > many years back and
> > they were pretty ordinary copies and somewhat
> > smudged and hard to
> > read or is that just how they are?
> >
> > Short of that, I'll just have to order them direct
> > from Mr Bolger,
> > (the good old fashioned snail mail method) and wait
> > a few weeks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Paul.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
> that gives answers, not web links.
>http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
>
Hi Dennis,
Way back in 1999, I bought plans for a Martha Jane from Commonsense
Designs (when Bernie Wolfard was the owner).
I paid online with my credit card and never recieved those plans.
Yes, I got ripped off and that was that. Bernie Wolfard wouldn't
return my emails and I think he dissapeared from the face of the
earth along with my $$$.
It wasn't until about a year or two later (around 2001) that I
stumbled across the "new" Commonsense Designs under the new ownership
of Gerry Estes.
I wrote to Mr Estes and explained my plight and he straight away
honoured my original (unfilled) order and sent me a set of MJ plans.
That restored my faith somewhat, but the plans I recieved just look
like crap. Just plain paper copies of the original and very hard to
read as they are very dark and smudged in some places. Very important
places too if they happen to be offsets that you cannot quite make
out.!! (Hmmm.. is that a 6 or a 8 ???) etc.
Anyway, I have recently decided to start building and emailed Mr
Estes regarding some advice on the Martha Jane upgrades.
I never recieved a reply from him.
Based on this track record from CSD and from the opinion of many on
this forum, I think I will give Mr Estes a wide berth.
Anyway, I have since decided the MJ is too big and not what I want,
so I now have decided on the Micro.
I will buy them from PB&F to be safe and get the Navigator upgrade
sheet at the same time that Mr Estes and CSD don't seem to be able to
provide. That goes for the MJ upgrades too. I guess that's why Mr
Estes didn't return my last email as it was concerning the Martha
Jane upgrades.
Cheers,
Paul.
Way back in 1999, I bought plans for a Martha Jane from Commonsense
Designs (when Bernie Wolfard was the owner).
I paid online with my credit card and never recieved those plans.
Yes, I got ripped off and that was that. Bernie Wolfard wouldn't
return my emails and I think he dissapeared from the face of the
earth along with my $$$.
It wasn't until about a year or two later (around 2001) that I
stumbled across the "new" Commonsense Designs under the new ownership
of Gerry Estes.
I wrote to Mr Estes and explained my plight and he straight away
honoured my original (unfilled) order and sent me a set of MJ plans.
That restored my faith somewhat, but the plans I recieved just look
like crap. Just plain paper copies of the original and very hard to
read as they are very dark and smudged in some places. Very important
places too if they happen to be offsets that you cannot quite make
out.!! (Hmmm.. is that a 6 or a 8 ???) etc.
Anyway, I have recently decided to start building and emailed Mr
Estes regarding some advice on the Martha Jane upgrades.
I never recieved a reply from him.
Based on this track record from CSD and from the opinion of many on
this forum, I think I will give Mr Estes a wide berth.
Anyway, I have since decided the MJ is too big and not what I want,
so I now have decided on the Micro.
I will buy them from PB&F to be safe and get the Navigator upgrade
sheet at the same time that Mr Estes and CSD don't seem to be able to
provide. That goes for the MJ upgrades too. I guess that's why Mr
Estes didn't return my last email as it was concerning the Martha
Jane upgrades.
Cheers,
Paul.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "lancasterdennis" <dlancast@...> wrote:
>
> --
> I purchased my "Old Shoe" plans from Commonsense Designs. I knew
> nothing about Phil Bolger and Commonsense was a response to my
> internet search. I had no hesitation in purchasing those plans and
> got what I paid for. Not until I joined this group, did I find
> reason to even question the source of my plans. I feel that if you
> can purchase from the designer himself, that is the best way to go,
> but, I have no problem with going through CSD for plans or advice.
> BTW, I am about half way through my build and everything is coming
> together nicely.
>
> Best to you on your future build of the Micro.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dennis
> - Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "9buck crowley" <buckcrowley@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> > I'd suggest buying them from Phil too. The cost is only a very
> small
> > percentage of the total cost to build the boat. I bought mine
from
> > Commonsense designs ten years ago when I thought they were the
only
> source.
> > When I had some questions I offered to pay for the consult but
Phil
> ignored
> > that suggestion and answered my questions anyways which I think
> shows you
> > the kind of guy he is. I also think you'll find your plans come
> pretty
> > quickly too.
> >
> > Buck Crowley
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Paul" <p_hardy@>
> > >Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > >To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [bolger] Re: Where to purchase Bolger Micro Plans?
> > >Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:59:15 -0000
> > >
> > >Go direct to the source. There have been several mentions of
> > >problems regarding royalties payed by commonsense. As far as I
> > >know, these are the only two sources. When I ordered my plans
they
> > >were shipped pretty quickly.
> > >
> > >Paul H.
> > >
> > >--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mrfirkin" <thurcros@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > G'day all,
> > > >
> > > > I want to purchase plans for a Micro.
> > > >
> > > > Who, Where, (apart from Mr Bolger himself) can I buy plans
from
> > >that
> > > > are originals, and not copies of copies of copies.
> > > >
> > > > I bought Martha Jane plans from Commonsense Boats many years
> back
> > >and
> > > > they were pretty ordinary copies and somewhat smudged and
hard
> to
> > > > read or is that just how they are?
> > > >
> > > > Short of that, I'll just have to order them direct from Mr
> Bolger,
> > > > (the good old fashioned snail mail method) and wait a few
weeks.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Paul.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Picture this share your photos and you could win big!
> >http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
> >
>
Hey Paul the best thing you can do for yourself is get
the plans from Mr Bolger. You help yourself in two
ways, you get any updates to the design that may have
been added over the years, and if you need help you
can get help from the designer.
Yes you need to deal with snail mail but I think over
all it's a better deal for you and the designer.
Blessings Krissie
--- mrfirkin <thurcros@...> wrote:
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
the plans from Mr Bolger. You help yourself in two
ways, you get any updates to the design that may have
been added over the years, and if you need help you
can get help from the designer.
Yes you need to deal with snail mail but I think over
all it's a better deal for you and the designer.
Blessings Krissie
--- mrfirkin <thurcros@...> wrote:
> G'day all,____________________________________________________________________________________
>
> I want to purchase plans for a Micro.
>
> Who, Where, (apart from Mr Bolger himself) can I buy
> plans from that
> are originals, and not copies of copies of copies.
>
> I bought Martha Jane plans from Commonsense Boats
> many years back and
> they were pretty ordinary copies and somewhat
> smudged and hard to
> read or is that just how they are?
>
> Short of that, I'll just have to order them direct
> from Mr Bolger,
> (the good old fashioned snail mail method) and wait
> a few weeks.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
--
I purchased my "Old Shoe" plans from Commonsense Designs. I knew
nothing about Phil Bolger and Commonsense was a response to my
internet search. I had no hesitation in purchasing those plans and
got what I paid for. Not until I joined this group, did I find
reason to even question the source of my plans. I feel that if you
can purchase from the designer himself, that is the best way to go,
but, I have no problem with going through CSD for plans or advice.
BTW, I am about half way through my build and everything is coming
together nicely.
Best to you on your future build of the Micro.
Regards,
Dennis
- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "9buck crowley" <buckcrowley@...> wrote:
I purchased my "Old Shoe" plans from Commonsense Designs. I knew
nothing about Phil Bolger and Commonsense was a response to my
internet search. I had no hesitation in purchasing those plans and
got what I paid for. Not until I joined this group, did I find
reason to even question the source of my plans. I feel that if you
can purchase from the designer himself, that is the best way to go,
but, I have no problem with going through CSD for plans or advice.
BTW, I am about half way through my build and everything is coming
together nicely.
Best to you on your future build of the Micro.
Regards,
Dennis
- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "9buck crowley" <buckcrowley@...> wrote:
>small
> Hi
> I'd suggest buying them from Phil too. The cost is only a very
> percentage of the total cost to build the boat. I bought mine fromsource.
> Commonsense designs ten years ago when I thought they were the only
> When I had some questions I offered to pay for the consult but Philignored
> that suggestion and answered my questions anyways which I thinkshows you
> the kind of guy he is. I also think you'll find your plans comepretty
> quickly too.back
>
> Buck Crowley
>
>
>
> >From: "Paul" <p_hardy@...>
> >Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> >To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [bolger] Re: Where to purchase Bolger Micro Plans?
> >Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:59:15 -0000
> >
> >Go direct to the source. There have been several mentions of
> >problems regarding royalties payed by commonsense. As far as I
> >know, these are the only two sources. When I ordered my plans they
> >were shipped pretty quickly.
> >
> >Paul H.
> >
> >--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mrfirkin" <thurcros@> wrote:
> > >
> > > G'day all,
> > >
> > > I want to purchase plans for a Micro.
> > >
> > > Who, Where, (apart from Mr Bolger himself) can I buy plans from
> >that
> > > are originals, and not copies of copies of copies.
> > >
> > > I bought Martha Jane plans from Commonsense Boats many years
> >andto
> > > they were pretty ordinary copies and somewhat smudged and hard
> > > read or is that just how they are?Bolger,
> > >
> > > Short of that, I'll just have to order them direct from Mr
> > > (the good old fashioned snail mail method) and wait a few weeks.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Paul.
> > >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Picture this share your photos and you could win big!
>http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
>
Thanks Graeme,
I have the letter ready to post to PB&F.
Cheers,
Paul.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
I have the letter ready to post to PB&F.
Cheers,
Paul.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>plans,
> Hi Paul,
>
> short of someone offering to sell unused recently obtained plans
> your only option is to buy them from PB&F.
>
> If you buy from PB&F you get everything you should, full size
> all the latest updates and suggested options. Importantly, you also
> will be able to consult PB&F about your project later on should you
> need to do so.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme
>
>
>
> a--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mrfirkin" <thurcros@> wrote:
> >
> > G'day all,
> >
> > I want to purchase plans for a Micro.
> >
> > Who, Where, (apart from Mr Bolger himself) can I buy plans from
> that
> > are originals, and not copies of copies of copies.
>
Hi
I'd suggest buying them from Phil too. The cost is only a very small
percentage of the total cost to build the boat. I bought mine from
Commonsense designs ten years ago when I thought they were the only source.
When I had some questions I offered to pay for the consult but Phil ignored
that suggestion and answered my questions anyways which I think shows you
the kind of guy he is. I also think you'll find your plans come pretty
quickly too.
Buck Crowley
Picture this � share your photos and you could win big!
http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
I'd suggest buying them from Phil too. The cost is only a very small
percentage of the total cost to build the boat. I bought mine from
Commonsense designs ten years ago when I thought they were the only source.
When I had some questions I offered to pay for the consult but Phil ignored
that suggestion and answered my questions anyways which I think shows you
the kind of guy he is. I also think you'll find your plans come pretty
quickly too.
Buck Crowley
>From: "Paul" <p_hardy@...>_________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [bolger] Re: Where to purchase Bolger Micro Plans?
>Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:59:15 -0000
>
>Go direct to the source. There have been several mentions of
>problems regarding royalties payed by commonsense. As far as I
>know, these are the only two sources. When I ordered my plans they
>were shipped pretty quickly.
>
>Paul H.
>
>--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mrfirkin" <thurcros@...> wrote:
> >
> > G'day all,
> >
> > I want to purchase plans for a Micro.
> >
> > Who, Where, (apart from Mr Bolger himself) can I buy plans from
>that
> > are originals, and not copies of copies of copies.
> >
> > I bought Martha Jane plans from Commonsense Boats many years back
>and
> > they were pretty ordinary copies and somewhat smudged and hard to
> > read or is that just how they are?
> >
> > Short of that, I'll just have to order them direct from Mr Bolger,
> > (the good old fashioned snail mail method) and wait a few weeks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Paul.
> >
>
>
Picture this � share your photos and you could win big!
http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
Go direct to the source. There have been several mentions of
problems regarding royalties payed by commonsense. As far as I
know, these are the only two sources. When I ordered my plans they
were shipped pretty quickly.
Paul H.
problems regarding royalties payed by commonsense. As far as I
know, these are the only two sources. When I ordered my plans they
were shipped pretty quickly.
Paul H.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mrfirkin" <thurcros@...> wrote:
>
> G'day all,
>
> I want to purchase plans for a Micro.
>
> Who, Where, (apart from Mr Bolger himself) can I buy plans from
that
> are originals, and not copies of copies of copies.
>
> I bought Martha Jane plans from Commonsense Boats many years back
and
> they were pretty ordinary copies and somewhat smudged and hard to
> read or is that just how they are?
>
> Short of that, I'll just have to order them direct from Mr Bolger,
> (the good old fashioned snail mail method) and wait a few weeks.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul.
>
Hi Paul,
short of someone offering to sell unused recently obtained plans
your only option is to buy them from PB&F.
If you buy from PB&F you get everything you should, full size plans,
all the latest updates and suggested options. Importantly, you also
will be able to consult PB&F about your project later on should you
need to do so.
Cheers
Graeme
a--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mrfirkin" <thurcros@...> wrote:
short of someone offering to sell unused recently obtained plans
your only option is to buy them from PB&F.
If you buy from PB&F you get everything you should, full size plans,
all the latest updates and suggested options. Importantly, you also
will be able to consult PB&F about your project later on should you
need to do so.
Cheers
Graeme
a--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mrfirkin" <thurcros@...> wrote:
>that
> G'day all,
>
> I want to purchase plans for a Micro.
>
> Who, Where, (apart from Mr Bolger himself) can I buy plans from
> are originals, and not copies of copies of copies.
G'day all,
I want to purchase plans for a Micro.
Who, Where, (apart from Mr Bolger himself) can I buy plans from that
are originals, and not copies of copies of copies.
I bought Martha Jane plans from Commonsense Boats many years back and
they were pretty ordinary copies and somewhat smudged and hard to
read or is that just how they are?
Short of that, I'll just have to order them direct from Mr Bolger,
(the good old fashioned snail mail method) and wait a few weeks.
Cheers,
Paul.
I want to purchase plans for a Micro.
Who, Where, (apart from Mr Bolger himself) can I buy plans from that
are originals, and not copies of copies of copies.
I bought Martha Jane plans from Commonsense Boats many years back and
they were pretty ordinary copies and somewhat smudged and hard to
read or is that just how they are?
Short of that, I'll just have to order them direct from Mr Bolger,
(the good old fashioned snail mail method) and wait a few weeks.
Cheers,
Paul.