Re: [SPAM] [bolger] re Folding Schooner
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <p_hardy@...> wrote:
legs, each leg pivoted in the middle, but with the top leg extended
about 9 inches past the pivot, so that when folded a pressure down
and forward would act to straighten them, and hey presto a cabin
would appear above deck, but I couldn't think of how to seal it to
make a water tight joint between it and the deck, useing
the "Birdwatcher" walkway, you'd only need cabin each side anyway,
and having them built with front and rear panels, and a side roof,
would make them quite a strong structure, hinges along a combing
would mean that they lifted onto a seal, (round rubber bungee ??),
locking the sides up might be fun, the gap between roofs could be
spanned by a canvas cover, or hinged hatch as on the Amherst Galley.
I personally don't think it would add much weight, and if the sides
were made stitch and glue, the only framing would be something to
hang hinges on. If you use fore and aft cabins (sort of traditional
schooner), then combing could be added between cabins, (bolt on,
after cabins are lifted), for a centre cockpit. I can't see that the
real problem is weight, I think the key is making a good seal, any
ideas ??.
>webshots,
>
> > Hi Nels, I was looking at previous messages about the folding
> > schooner, and found a message about phk58's schooner on
> > (or at least it sounds very much like it), two tillers, largeair
> > tanks both sides, and a heavy centre board, the message wasnumber
> > 50467, and somewhere about there, is a link to a photo of aa
> schooner
> > being unfolded with the aid of a block and tackle on a long pole
> > attached to the trailer, (might be worth a thought). Also worth
> > thought might be about folding/unfolding with the schooner onit's
> > side, extra weight wouldn't be a problem, and a sudden gust ofstructure
> wind
> > wouldn't do as much as it could when unfolding vertically. The
> bolt
> > on cabin is a good idea thats worth more thought, and would
> > certainly add rigidity, if it spanned the join, (wonder if it
> could
> > be stowed in the rear hull for trailering).
> >
>
> Looking at this thread I had begun thinking that adding a
> similar to a "popup" camper to each side might make an interestingpossible
> variation, have them telescope down into the hulls or have folding
> supports and side panels that are removable or flexible.
>
> I need to look at my copy of folding schooner or instant boats to
> refresh myself more on the lines, but I think it would be a
> adaptation without adding too much weight.Hi Paul, One of my thoughts was pop up cabins, each on 4 folding
>
> Paul H.
>
legs, each leg pivoted in the middle, but with the top leg extended
about 9 inches past the pivot, so that when folded a pressure down
and forward would act to straighten them, and hey presto a cabin
would appear above deck, but I couldn't think of how to seal it to
make a water tight joint between it and the deck, useing
the "Birdwatcher" walkway, you'd only need cabin each side anyway,
and having them built with front and rear panels, and a side roof,
would make them quite a strong structure, hinges along a combing
would mean that they lifted onto a seal, (round rubber bungee ??),
locking the sides up might be fun, the gap between roofs could be
spanned by a canvas cover, or hinged hatch as on the Amherst Galley.
I personally don't think it would add much weight, and if the sides
were made stitch and glue, the only framing would be something to
hang hinges on. If you use fore and aft cabins (sort of traditional
schooner), then combing could be added between cabins, (bolt on,
after cabins are lifted), for a centre cockpit. I can't see that the
real problem is weight, I think the key is making a good seal, any
ideas ??.
> Hi Nels, I was looking at previous messages about the foldingschooner
> schooner, and found a message about phk58's schooner on webshots,
> (or at least it sounds very much like it), two tillers, large air
> tanks both sides, and a heavy centre board, the message was number
> 50467, and somewhere about there, is a link to a photo of a
> being unfolded with the aid of a block and tackle on a long polewind
> attached to the trailer, (might be worth a thought). Also worth a
> thought might be about folding/unfolding with the schooner on it's
> side, extra weight wouldn't be a problem, and a sudden gust of
> wouldn't do as much as it could when unfolding vertically. Thebolt
> on cabin is a good idea thats worth more thought, and wouldcould
> certainly add rigidity, if it spanned the join, (wonder if it
> be stowed in the rear hull for trailering).Looking at this thread I had begun thinking that adding a structure
>
similar to a "popup" camper to each side might make an interesting
variation, have them telescope down into the hulls or have folding
supports and side panels that are removable or flexible.
I need to look at my copy of folding schooner or instant boats to
refresh myself more on the lines, but I think it would be a possible
adaptation without adding too much weight.
Paul H.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
schooner, and found a message about phk58's schooner on webshots,
(or at least it sounds very much like it), two tillers, large air
tanks both sides, and a heavy centre board, the message was number
50467, and somewhere about there, is a link to a photo of a schooner
being unfolded with the aid of a block and tackle on a long pole
attached to the trailer, (might be worth a thought). Also worth a
thought might be about folding/unfolding with the schooner on it's
side, extra weight wouldn't be a problem, and a sudden gust of wind
wouldn't do as much as it could when unfolding vertically. The bolt
on cabin is a good idea thats worth more thought, and would
certainly add rigidity, if it spanned the join, (wonder if it could
be stowed in the rear hull for trailering).
>wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "lordborrolan" <lordborrolan@>
> >had
> > Hi Alex, If a 15 foot cabin was used to fit the hulls after they
> > been unfolded, would the latches at the chines, be needed, orjust
> > a "piece of mind" fitment ??, Mr. Bolger does mention adding anavoid
> > extra layer of quarter ply to the bottom, to stiffen it and
> > flexing, I think I'd like to know that the hull was "toughenough"
> > to withstand beaching time and time again, and not "just enoughto
> > do the job". The folding schooner was after all designed for arace
> > and not general messing about season after season, with cruisingbig
> > adventures thrown in. A problem that may be of concern with the
> > cabin, is how do you go from rear hull to front hull frominside ??,
> > and you would need passage way either side of the mast. All thebest
> > with the build, will you be posting photos ??. Kevyou
>
> The add-on 15 foot cabin looks like an excellent idea to me. Then
> have the option of going either with or without it. Just like Paulwithout
> with his MICRO.
>
> It would likely float on its side from a 90 degree knockdown
> shipping any water. Incidiently, Michalak's AF3 passed thesetrials,
> admittedly in calm conditions but also in actuality. (The skipperswam
> after the cooler that was drifting downwind, while the crew re-righted
> the boat. The skipper was a Canuck which explains his sense ofpriority.)
>done
> The mainmast could be off-set to one side of the slot as is often
> in Michalak boats. (Off-setting things seems "normal" for buildersof
> his boats:-)is to
>
> Abrasion resistance can be accomplished in several ways. One way
> add longitudinal keel strips. A couple more used by whitewaterboaters
> are s-cloth as opposed to e-cloth and mixing carbon powder in theHi Nels, I was looking at previous messages about the folding
> final epoxy applications.
>
>http://www.shopmaninc.com/cloth.html#sglass
>
> Then there is also the "scoonerWatcher" to consider:-D
>
>http://tinyurl.com/24vfge
>
> Nels
>
schooner, and found a message about phk58's schooner on webshots,
(or at least it sounds very much like it), two tillers, large air
tanks both sides, and a heavy centre board, the message was number
50467, and somewhere about there, is a link to a photo of a schooner
being unfolded with the aid of a block and tackle on a long pole
attached to the trailer, (might be worth a thought). Also worth a
thought might be about folding/unfolding with the schooner on it's
side, extra weight wouldn't be a problem, and a sudden gust of wind
wouldn't do as much as it could when unfolding vertically. The bolt
on cabin is a good idea thats worth more thought, and would
certainly add rigidity, if it spanned the join, (wonder if it could
be stowed in the rear hull for trailering).
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "lordborrolan" <lordborrolan@...> wrote:
have the option of going either with or without it. Just like Paul
with his MICRO.
It would likely float on its side from a 90 degree knockdown without
shipping any water. Incidiently, Michalak's AF3 passed these trials,
admittedly in calm conditions but also in actuality. (The skipper swam
after the cooler that was drifting downwind, while the crew re-righted
the boat. The skipper was a Canuck which explains his sense of priority.)
The mainmast could be off-set to one side of the slot as is often done
in Michalak boats. (Off-setting things seems "normal" for builders of
his boats:-)
Abrasion resistance can be accomplished in several ways. One way is to
add longitudinal keel strips. A couple more used by whitewater boaters
are s-cloth as opposed to e-cloth and mixing carbon powder in the
final epoxy applications.
http://www.shopmaninc.com/cloth.html#sglass
Then there is also the "scoonerWatcher" to consider:-D
http://tinyurl.com/24vfge
Nels
>The add-on 15 foot cabin looks like an excellent idea to me. Then you
> Hi Alex, If a 15 foot cabin was used to fit the hulls after they had
> been unfolded, would the latches at the chines, be needed, or just
> a "piece of mind" fitment ??, Mr. Bolger does mention adding an
> extra layer of quarter ply to the bottom, to stiffen it and avoid
> flexing, I think I'd like to know that the hull was "tough enough"
> to withstand beaching time and time again, and not "just enough to
> do the job". The folding schooner was after all designed for a race
> and not general messing about season after season, with cruising
> adventures thrown in. A problem that may be of concern with the big
> cabin, is how do you go from rear hull to front hull from inside ??,
> and you would need passage way either side of the mast. All the best
> with the build, will you be posting photos ??. Kev
have the option of going either with or without it. Just like Paul
with his MICRO.
It would likely float on its side from a 90 degree knockdown without
shipping any water. Incidiently, Michalak's AF3 passed these trials,
admittedly in calm conditions but also in actuality. (The skipper swam
after the cooler that was drifting downwind, while the crew re-righted
the boat. The skipper was a Canuck which explains his sense of priority.)
The mainmast could be off-set to one side of the slot as is often done
in Michalak boats. (Off-setting things seems "normal" for builders of
his boats:-)
Abrasion resistance can be accomplished in several ways. One way is to
add longitudinal keel strips. A couple more used by whitewater boaters
are s-cloth as opposed to e-cloth and mixing carbon powder in the
final epoxy applications.
http://www.shopmaninc.com/cloth.html#sglass
Then there is also the "scoonerWatcher" to consider:-D
http://tinyurl.com/24vfge
Nels
Hi Alex, If a 15 foot cabin was used to fit the hulls after they had
been unfolded, would the latches at the chines, be needed, or just
a "piece of mind" fitment ??, Mr. Bolger does mention adding an
extra layer of quarter ply to the bottom, to stiffen it and avoid
flexing, I think I'd like to know that the hull was "tough enough"
to withstand beaching time and time again, and not "just enough to
do the job". The folding schooner was after all designed for a race
and not general messing about season after season, with cruising
adventures thrown in. A problem that may be of concern with the big
cabin, is how do you go from rear hull to front hull from inside ??,
and you would need passage way either side of the mast. All the best
with the build, will you be posting photos ??. Kev --- In
bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Heywood" <alex.heywood@...> wrote:
been unfolded, would the latches at the chines, be needed, or just
a "piece of mind" fitment ??, Mr. Bolger does mention adding an
extra layer of quarter ply to the bottom, to stiffen it and avoid
flexing, I think I'd like to know that the hull was "tough enough"
to withstand beaching time and time again, and not "just enough to
do the job". The folding schooner was after all designed for a race
and not general messing about season after season, with cruising
adventures thrown in. A problem that may be of concern with the big
cabin, is how do you go from rear hull to front hull from inside ??,
and you would need passage way either side of the mast. All the best
with the build, will you be posting photos ??. Kev --- In
bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Heywood" <alex.heywood@...> wrote:
>well on the way of completion,
> Its nice to read all this about the folding schooner, seeing I am
> I went up to it with tape measure in hand and found out that if a15 foot cabin section was made
> to sit on the hulls when on the trailer it would cover the frontcockpit up to the fore mast--7 ft 4ins
> when placed on the unfolded hulls and the rest would cover part ofthe rear cockpit.
> I know that if you want to unfold and fold it make sure you buildit to plan--Mr Bolger knows best
> if he says 1/4 inch ply use it, not the 9mm that I used , the samegoes for all the material used
> My one is heavy will that make it more stable? I aim to make themasts and spars as light
> as possible to this end I have started to make the booms and jibclub out of ply , the ply
> is two long sides of the box, I will have to see how it goesinvolved
> alex
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: lordborrolan
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 7:24 PM
> Subject: [SPAM] [bolger] re Folding Schooner
>
>
> Hi Guy's, Just a thought, but how much weight is actually
> with folding, some say loads, others say different, phk 58(mostly
> harmless photos of the folding schooner, on webshots) has aphoto of
> two people with a schooner on it's side and (I pressume)begining to
> be folded, another site (www.hmshft.org) has a series of photoswacking
> showing a system of opening a schooner on its trailer, with a
> great pole, and rope around the main mast to lower it intoposition.
> Mr. Bolger says that he opened and closed a schooner on his own,so
> how much additional weight would be too much ???.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Its nice to read all this about the folding schooner, seeing I am well on the way of completion,
I went up to it with tape measure in hand and found out that if a 15 foot cabin section was made
to sit on the hulls when on the trailer it would cover the front cockpit up to the fore mast--7 ft 4ins
when placed on the unfolded hulls and the rest would cover part of the rear cockpit.
I know that if you want to unfold and fold it make sure you build it to plan--Mr Bolger knows best
if he says 1/4 inch ply use it, not the 9mm that I used , the same goes for all the material used
My one is heavy will that make it more stable? I aim to make the masts and spars as light
as possible to this end I have started to make the booms and jib club out of ply , the ply
is two long sides of the box, I will have to see how it goes
alex
I went up to it with tape measure in hand and found out that if a 15 foot cabin section was made
to sit on the hulls when on the trailer it would cover the front cockpit up to the fore mast--7 ft 4ins
when placed on the unfolded hulls and the rest would cover part of the rear cockpit.
I know that if you want to unfold and fold it make sure you build it to plan--Mr Bolger knows best
if he says 1/4 inch ply use it, not the 9mm that I used , the same goes for all the material used
My one is heavy will that make it more stable? I aim to make the masts and spars as light
as possible to this end I have started to make the booms and jib club out of ply , the ply
is two long sides of the box, I will have to see how it goes
alex
----- Original Message -----
From: lordborrolan
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 7:24 PM
Subject: [SPAM] [bolger] re Folding Schooner
Hi Guy's, Just a thought, but how much weight is actually involved
with folding, some say loads, others say different, phk 58 (mostly
harmless photos of the folding schooner, on webshots) has a photo of
two people with a schooner on it's side and (I pressume) begining to
be folded, another site (www.hmshft.org) has a series of photos
showing a system of opening a schooner on its trailer, with a wacking
great pole, and rope around the main mast to lower it into position.
Mr. Bolger says that he opened and closed a schooner on his own, so
how much additional weight would be too much ???.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]