Re: Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro
Thanks Nels,
John
John
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@> wrote:
> >
> > Martin,
> >
> > I think its fantastic that you "raced" your Micro. How did it go?
> > Have you any pics of the junk rig? What is the Sail area of the rig?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > John Mann
>
> Photos of Applecross are here:
>
>http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger5/photos/browse/5fed
>
> I think Martin had it up for sale at one point. Nice to see he has it
> up for sailing now:-)
>
> Nels
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "mannthree" <johnmann@...> wrote:
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger5/photos/browse/5fed
I think Martin had it up for sale at one point. Nice to see he has it
up for sailing now:-)
Nels
>Photos of Applecross are here:
> Martin,
>
> I think its fantastic that you "raced" your Micro. How did it go?
> Have you any pics of the junk rig? What is the Sail area of the rig?
>
> Cheers,
>
> John Mann
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger5/photos/browse/5fed
I think Martin had it up for sale at one point. Nice to see he has it
up for sailing now:-)
Nels
Once upon a time (way back when) in my club the catamaran racers all
liked to fly a hull, but not all were equally capable of maneuvering on
one hull. One harpooned a Sunfish sail. No injuries, except to the sail.
Patrick
derbyrm wrote:
liked to fly a hull, but not all were equally capable of maneuvering on
one hull. One harpooned a Sunfish sail. No injuries, except to the sail.
Patrick
derbyrm wrote:
> Amen!
>
> As HSA Commodore, I had to tell the sailboard people they couldn't play with us unless they had lifejackets and lace-on shoes. I wanted them to have helmets, but couldn't quite go that far. They weren't willing to wear anything but their swim trunks so they went away after much loud discussion and arm waving.
>
> The game with the Sunfish was to get the sail right down on the deck. Even with a window in the sail, visibility was poor and in one race I had another boat in my lap. No damage except to the other fellow's ego and my spray shield.
>
> Roger
>derbyrm@...
>http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
Martin,
I think its fantastic that you "raced" your Micro. How did it go?
Have you any pics of the junk rig? What is the Sail area of the rig?
Cheers,
John Mann
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Roberts" <martin.me.roberts@...>
wrote:
I think its fantastic that you "raced" your Micro. How did it go?
Have you any pics of the junk rig? What is the Sail area of the rig?
Cheers,
John Mann
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Roberts" <martin.me.roberts@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
> For the first time today I finished a race with my local club and I
> was wondering what my handicap number should be.
>
> I have a Bolger micro with a non standard junk rig.
>
> Would any one know what a standard micro handicap would be?
>
>
> Martin
>
Amen!
As HSA Commodore, I had to tell the sailboard people they couldn't play with us unless they had lifejackets and lace-on shoes. I wanted them to have helmets, but couldn't quite go that far. They weren't willing to wear anything but their swim trunks so they went away after much loud discussion and arm waving.
The game with the Sunfish was to get the sail right down on the deck. Even with a window in the sail, visibility was poor and in one race I had another boat in my lap. No damage except to the other fellow's ego and my spray shield.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
As HSA Commodore, I had to tell the sailboard people they couldn't play with us unless they had lifejackets and lace-on shoes. I wanted them to have helmets, but couldn't quite go that far. They weren't willing to wear anything but their swim trunks so they went away after much loud discussion and arm waving.
The game with the Sunfish was to get the sail right down on the deck. Even with a window in the sail, visibility was poor and in one race I had another boat in my lap. No damage except to the other fellow's ego and my spray shield.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Kristine Bennett
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro
Also be warned racing sailboats is also a full contact
sport!! Or at least that is what I have seen when I
was working at Marine Service Center when they were in
Seattle. Some mondays we would have 5 boats to fix
that week so they could play the next weekend!
As for your handicap I wouldn't worry about it just go
out and enjoy being on the water!
Blessings Krissie
--- derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
> I'm think of such esoterica as "Mast Abeam!" "Room
> at the Mark!" "Barging!" and other such calls that
> I've forgotten since thirty years ago. Just go out
> and have fun. The Protest Committee will explain
> them to you.
>
__________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Also be warned racing sailboats is also a full contact
sport!! Or at least that is what I have seen when I
was working at Marine Service Center when they were in
Seattle. Some mondays we would have 5 boats to fix
that week so they could play the next weekend!
As for your handicap I wouldn't worry about it just go
out and enjoy being on the water!
Blessings Krissie
--- derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
sport!! Or at least that is what I have seen when I
was working at Marine Service Center when they were in
Seattle. Some mondays we would have 5 boats to fix
that week so they could play the next weekend!
As for your handicap I wouldn't worry about it just go
out and enjoy being on the water!
Blessings Krissie
--- derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
> I'm think of such esoterica as "Mast Abeam!" "Room____________________________________________________________________________________
> at the Mark!" "Barging!" and other such calls that
> I've forgotten since thirty years ago. Just go out
> and have fun. The Protest Committee will explain
> them to you.
>
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
Well, my copy of the rules still has "Mast Abeam," but it was published some 25 years ago. If there's any likelihood of joining an organized race, I'll have to buy a new edition.
When you're creeping past a boat that's to windward of you, how do you decide that he's become the burdened boat?
That said, anytime there are two sailboats in sight of one another, there's a race, unless they're going in opposite directions. Beating up to the entrance to the bay at the north end of Virgin Gorda, BVI, the other boat was well ahead, but he went to the lay line too early, we got the lift and we sailed in well ahead.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
When you're creeping past a boat that's to windward of you, how do you decide that he's become the burdened boat?
That said, anytime there are two sailboats in sight of one another, there's a race, unless they're going in opposite directions. Beating up to the entrance to the bay at the north end of Virgin Gorda, BVI, the other boat was well ahead, but he went to the lay line too early, we got the lift and we sailed in well ahead.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: pvanderwaart
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:31 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro
> I'm think of such esoterica as "Mast Abeam!"...
Well, Mast Abeam was eliminated from the rule book a decade ago, so
some review of the rule would be a good idea.
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> I'm think of such esoterica as "Mast Abeam!"...Well, Mast Abeam was eliminated from the rule book a decade ago, so
some review of the rule would be a good idea.
I don't think the Micro is going to qualify for true PHRF racing.
There minimum length requirements, as well as safety matters such as
self-bailing cockpits. However, local fleets extend or adapt PHRF for
club racing, which is probably what you are talking about. Any rating
will be completely subjective. "Are you faster than that boat over there?"
On the other hand (and this goes for the Windsprint, too), if there
are boats in the race that are more or less logically similar to the
one you want to race, they will probably be happy to have, and will
certainly be helpful if you call them up and ask.
Lots of clubs that race mixed fleets of not-very-racy boats use the
Portsmouth rating system. It's similar to PHRF, but the correction is
time-on-time, not time-on-distance. You can find some information at
www.ussailing.com.
The PHRF system is based more on data than design parameters (if I
understand it right, an expert I am not). If enough of you micro owners
would race than the system would have enough info to assign you a
handicap. The problem in assigning a handicap to a Bolger design is it
is hard to get a grip on its speed relative to other designs because
they typically a. Don't race so there is no data and b. Don't have
features common to others out there already racing to make for a rough
comparison. You would have an easier time in the New England PHRF as
there appears to be more classic designs there that might provide some
basis for comparison. I personally think racing is a good thing, teaches
a lot quickly about sailing your boat well. I also think that it might
prove a good thing to find out how purpose designed boats like Bolger's
do in relative terms sailing against designed for market boats.
HJ
Martin Roberts wrote:
understand it right, an expert I am not). If enough of you micro owners
would race than the system would have enough info to assign you a
handicap. The problem in assigning a handicap to a Bolger design is it
is hard to get a grip on its speed relative to other designs because
they typically a. Don't race so there is no data and b. Don't have
features common to others out there already racing to make for a rough
comparison. You would have an easier time in the New England PHRF as
there appears to be more classic designs there that might provide some
basis for comparison. I personally think racing is a good thing, teaches
a lot quickly about sailing your boat well. I also think that it might
prove a good thing to find out how purpose designed boats like Bolger's
do in relative terms sailing against designed for market boats.
HJ
Martin Roberts wrote:
> I think some of you are missing the point.
>
> I sail because I ejoy sailing, I race occaisionally to help me imrpove
> my sailing - it focusses the mind on trying to mak ethe most of the
> wind conditions.
>
> Todays race was a great example - at the start I pulled away from a
> Chebacco (Sylvester) as I was beating against the tide, _ I would have
> stopped for a chat without the race, bt it was good to se what the old
> tib can do. I plugged against the tide much longer than I woudl
> normally and amazingly was only a few minutes behind some
> larger 'yachts'. This was not the be all and end all of my sailing
> but I felt it was a triumph of Mr. Bolger's desin and my polytarp sail.
>
> All I was hoping was that someone might be able to give me a ball park
> figure that I can suggest to the club so next time I sail and finish
> (light winds and strong tides normally defeat me), I can be compared
> against the others and perhaps show them why I love my boat.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
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>
>
I think some of you are missing the point.
I sail because I ejoy sailing, I race occaisionally to help me imrpove
my sailing - it focusses the mind on trying to mak ethe most of the
wind conditions.
Todays race was a great example - at the start I pulled away from a
Chebacco (Sylvester) as I was beating against the tide, _ I would have
stopped for a chat without the race, bt it was good to se what the old
tib can do. I plugged against the tide much longer than I woudl
normally and amazingly was only a few minutes behind some
larger 'yachts'. This was not the be all and end all of my sailing
but I felt it was a triumph of Mr. Bolger's desin and my polytarp sail.
All I was hoping was that someone might be able to give me a ball park
figure that I can suggest to the club so next time I sail and finish
(light winds and strong tides normally defeat me), I can be compared
against the others and perhaps show them why I love my boat.
Martin
I sail because I ejoy sailing, I race occaisionally to help me imrpove
my sailing - it focusses the mind on trying to mak ethe most of the
wind conditions.
Todays race was a great example - at the start I pulled away from a
Chebacco (Sylvester) as I was beating against the tide, _ I would have
stopped for a chat without the race, bt it was good to se what the old
tib can do. I plugged against the tide much longer than I woudl
normally and amazingly was only a few minutes behind some
larger 'yachts'. This was not the be all and end all of my sailing
but I felt it was a triumph of Mr. Bolger's desin and my polytarp sail.
All I was hoping was that someone might be able to give me a ball park
figure that I can suggest to the club so next time I sail and finish
(light winds and strong tides normally defeat me), I can be compared
against the others and perhaps show them why I love my boat.
Martin
I'm think of such esoterica as "Mast Abeam!" "Room at the Mark!" "Barging!" and other such calls that I've forgotten since thirty years ago. Just go out and have fun. The Protest Committee will explain them to you.
Roger (and practice 720 degree turns)
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
Roger (and practice 720 degree turns)
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Crockett
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro
Well ... my crew would have absolutely no experience. And mine was 20
years ago in a sloop-rigged boat with spinnaker, so I'm not at all sure
how relevant it is. Perhaps you're right.
Patrick
derbyrm wrote:
> If you've not had a fair amount of experience racing, the "rating" should be the last of your worries.
>
> Roger
>derbyrm@...
>http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patrick Crockett
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 3:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro
>
>
> On the same topic, I've occasionally wondered about a Portsmouth (or other) rating for my Windsprint. And whether having a fully battened sail should influence the rating. I sometimes think about getting out on the water with the local racing club, but am daunted by the lack of a rating.
>
> Patrick
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well ... my crew would have absolutely no experience. And mine was 20
years ago in a sloop-rigged boat with spinnaker, so I'm not at all sure
how relevant it is. Perhaps you're right.
Patrick
derbyrm wrote:
years ago in a sloop-rigged boat with spinnaker, so I'm not at all sure
how relevant it is. Perhaps you're right.
Patrick
derbyrm wrote:
> If you've not had a fair amount of experience racing, the "rating" should be the last of your worries.
>
> Roger
>derbyrm@...
>http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patrick Crockett
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 3:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro
>
>
> On the same topic, I've occasionally wondered about a Portsmouth (or other) rating for my Windsprint. And whether having a fully battened sail should influence the rating. I sometimes think about getting out on the water with the local racing club, but am daunted by the lack of a rating.
>
> Patrick
>
If you've not had a fair amount of experience racing, the "rating" should be the last of your worries.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Crockett
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Racing Handicap for a Bolger Micro
On the same topic, I've occasionally wondered about a Portsmouth (or other) rating for my Windsprint. And whether having a fully battened sail should influence the rating. I sometimes think about getting out on the water with the local racing club, but am daunted by the lack of a rating.
Patrick
Martin Roberts wrote:
> Hi,
> For the first time today I finished a race with my local club and I
> was wondering what my handicap number should be.
>
> I have a Bolger micro with a non standard junk rig.
>
> Would any one know what a standard micro handicap would be?
>
> Martin
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.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On the same topic, I've occasionally wondered about a Portsmouth (or
other) rating for my Windsprint. And whether having a fully battened
sail should influence the rating. I sometimes think about getting out on
the water with the local racing club, but am daunted by the lack of a
rating.
Patrick
Martin Roberts wrote:
other) rating for my Windsprint. And whether having a fully battened
sail should influence the rating. I sometimes think about getting out on
the water with the local racing club, but am daunted by the lack of a
rating.
Patrick
Martin Roberts wrote:
> Hi,
> For the first time today I finished a race with my local club and I
> was wondering what my handicap number should be.
>
> I have a Bolger micro with a non standard junk rig.
>
> Would any one know what a standard micro handicap would be?
>
> Martin
Hi,
For the first time today I finished a race with my local club and I
was wondering what my handicap number should be.
I have a Bolger micro with a non standard junk rig.
Would any one know what a standard micro handicap would be?
Martin
For the first time today I finished a race with my local club and I
was wondering what my handicap number should be.
I have a Bolger micro with a non standard junk rig.
Would any one know what a standard micro handicap would be?
Martin