Berth availability
I am curious; since this is a far flung group I anticipate widely varied
responses. Here in Florida many of the counties have Manatee Protection
Plans (MPP) specific to that county. This is a result of the lawsuits and
threatened lawsuits by Save the Manatee and various other environmental
groups. It has created a scarcity of in water and dry storage slips for
boats of all types. To maximize the economic potential for a given marina
many in the area will not rent a wet slip to vessels less than 30' in length
since a vessel is a vessel, and most of the MPP use some form of ratio for
slips, thus limiting the number of vessels in any facility. It is the slip
count limits that create a lot of scarcity, not physical space at the
marina. Several years ago when the office I worked from was near downtown I
would sail to a nearby marina that was managed by a friend. On one occasion
the powers that be (Florida Department of Environmental Protection) cited
the marina for having a vessel in a non-approved location, the vessel was my
12' O'Day Widgeon that does have a registration, but not a motor. When I
see photos of a Micro sitting in a berth of a large facility, I can only
think that is not going to happen here. I am fortunate to have access to
single family dock and a nearby ramp, so I can continue to launch, retrieve
and berth my small vessels such that I get a lot of on water time with the
Esther Mae.
What is the story else where? This is a group that thrives on small boats
and real use of the same. Much of the reason behind all the restrictions is
couched in 'public interest'; I see it functioning as public exclusion.
Caloosarat,
(also know as Chester Young, Vice President, Hans Wilson & Associates, a
highly effective group of marine and environmental consulting engineers)
www.hanswilson.com
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Dennis Mingear
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:40 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
Thanks for the info (link) Bruce.
And your right, having a berth makes for more fun and less driving and
setting up to have funm, but around here, for me at least, planning for the
worst and hoping for the best is a good strategy. I can't count on a berth
for a small boat, so I have to consider which small boat would best fit my
limited resources and provide me with the most sailing for the money.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
responses. Here in Florida many of the counties have Manatee Protection
Plans (MPP) specific to that county. This is a result of the lawsuits and
threatened lawsuits by Save the Manatee and various other environmental
groups. It has created a scarcity of in water and dry storage slips for
boats of all types. To maximize the economic potential for a given marina
many in the area will not rent a wet slip to vessels less than 30' in length
since a vessel is a vessel, and most of the MPP use some form of ratio for
slips, thus limiting the number of vessels in any facility. It is the slip
count limits that create a lot of scarcity, not physical space at the
marina. Several years ago when the office I worked from was near downtown I
would sail to a nearby marina that was managed by a friend. On one occasion
the powers that be (Florida Department of Environmental Protection) cited
the marina for having a vessel in a non-approved location, the vessel was my
12' O'Day Widgeon that does have a registration, but not a motor. When I
see photos of a Micro sitting in a berth of a large facility, I can only
think that is not going to happen here. I am fortunate to have access to
single family dock and a nearby ramp, so I can continue to launch, retrieve
and berth my small vessels such that I get a lot of on water time with the
Esther Mae.
What is the story else where? This is a group that thrives on small boats
and real use of the same. Much of the reason behind all the restrictions is
couched in 'public interest'; I see it functioning as public exclusion.
Caloosarat,
(also know as Chester Young, Vice President, Hans Wilson & Associates, a
highly effective group of marine and environmental consulting engineers)
www.hanswilson.com
_____
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Dennis Mingear
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:40 AM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
Thanks for the info (link) Bruce.
And your right, having a berth makes for more fun and less driving and
setting up to have funm, but around here, for me at least, planning for the
worst and hoping for the best is a good strategy. I can't count on a berth
for a small boat, so I have to consider which small boat would best fit my
limited resources and provide me with the most sailing for the money.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Regarding the use of Plastic Resin glue. This glue is considered to be water resistant, not waterproof. Urea Resin glue is waterproof. That being said, I have used it long ago for a boat that was only going to be in the water for day use only. Urea is nearly as expensive as Epoxy. Since plastic, urea and epoxy all have to be mixed, the only reason to use plastic is to save money, there being no savings in time. Neither plastic or urea are gap filling. That means that ALL joints must be tight as the glue itself has little strength. The optimal film thickness of none gap filling glues is .005 of an inch. This is why epoxy has become the glue of choice for boat builders, especially amateurs. Lacking computer controlled cutting equipment that a lot of "Kit" companies sell, we don't have to be so fussy on fitting joints, since the epoxy fill is stronger than the wood. Sometimes trying to save money comes at the cost of boat failure, such as evidenced by the original post
on this subject.
Bob Slimak
PS - That half inch birch ply that fell apart. I have not used half inch, but that Baltic Birch 5 ply, be careful. Menards sell two types. One type in 4X8 sheet is the same as the 4X5 underlayment and has waterproof glue. They also sell another Baltic Birch 5 ply that is not rated for exterior and is not waterproof. If you ever use this (even for interior) make sure you are picking from the right pile!
---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
on this subject.
Bob Slimak
PS - That half inch birch ply that fell apart. I have not used half inch, but that Baltic Birch 5 ply, be careful. Menards sell two types. One type in 4X8 sheet is the same as the 4X5 underlayment and has waterproof glue. They also sell another Baltic Birch 5 ply that is not rated for exterior and is not waterproof. If you ever use this (even for interior) make sure you are picking from the right pile!
---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for the info (link) Bruce.
And your right, having a berth makes for more fun and less driving and setting up to have funm, but around here, for me at least, planning for the worst and hoping for the best is a good strategy. I can't count on a berth for a small boat, so I have to consider which small boat would best fit my limited resources and provide me with the most sailing for the money.
In my little town I can't park a boat in the driveway, it must go behind a gate on the side yard. Fortunately when we bought the house we considered parking for both a glider and a small boat. The side yard is just perfect for keeping these toys safe and sound. Of course as you point out a hangar and a berth would be ideal, but the SF Bay Area is simply to crowded and expensive to hope for either one, in the near term at least.
The Micro seems to be a very nice choice and the Navigator options do look nice, setup time included. I ask alot of questions before ordering any plans or wood because I only get to do this stuff once, so I have to consider all options and then be content with all of the compromise that accompanies those decsisions.
Thanks to all for your responses and links.
Denny ...
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
winds and current. At times the sea swell from the west, the wind
waves from the west can pile up on the shoals the strong outgoing
current from the east in the area known as "the potato patch". Avoid
the temptation to take advantage of an outgoing current when you leave
the Golden Gate. Also, fighting the strong incoming current can be an
uphill climb.
http://www.seamagazine.com/destinations/DM_article.asp?id=713
was the maximum boat that could fit on a trailer in my driveway. I
built the 'Navigator cabin' Chinese gaff sail version, and honestly, I
found the set up time of the Chinese gaff sail to be excessive for
trailer sailing. After 3 years of begging I was able to get a tiny
marina berth and I am very happy with this arrangement. Presently,
with a marina berth, I get to use my boat in some way or another
several days every week..
---------------------------------
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And your right, having a berth makes for more fun and less driving and setting up to have funm, but around here, for me at least, planning for the worst and hoping for the best is a good strategy. I can't count on a berth for a small boat, so I have to consider which small boat would best fit my limited resources and provide me with the most sailing for the money.
In my little town I can't park a boat in the driveway, it must go behind a gate on the side yard. Fortunately when we bought the house we considered parking for both a glider and a small boat. The side yard is just perfect for keeping these toys safe and sound. Of course as you point out a hangar and a berth would be ideal, but the SF Bay Area is simply to crowded and expensive to hope for either one, in the near term at least.
The Micro seems to be a very nice choice and the Navigator options do look nice, setup time included. I ask alot of questions before ordering any plans or wood because I only get to do this stuff once, so I have to consider all options and then be content with all of the compromise that accompanies those decsisions.
Thanks to all for your responses and links.
Denny ...
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
> Yeah! It would take a pretty special little sailboat and good timing to get out of the Bay and into the Pacific wouldn't it. If you didn't plan properly, the current could be moving faster and in the wrong direction, than the boat, that wouldn't be fun!Even large boats can experience trouble with the shoals, sea swell,
winds and current. At times the sea swell from the west, the wind
waves from the west can pile up on the shoals the strong outgoing
current from the east in the area known as "the potato patch". Avoid
the temptation to take advantage of an outgoing current when you leave
the Golden Gate. Also, fighting the strong incoming current can be an
uphill climb.
http://www.seamagazine.com/destinations/DM_article.asp?id=713
> The size of the boat, in my case, is determined by my available building and storage space and inexpensive trailering. It will have to stay at home when not being used.In my case, after a lot of research I found that Phil Bolger's Micro
was the maximum boat that could fit on a trailer in my driveway. I
built the 'Navigator cabin' Chinese gaff sail version, and honestly, I
found the set up time of the Chinese gaff sail to be excessive for
trailer sailing. After 3 years of begging I was able to get a tiny
marina berth and I am very happy with this arrangement. Presently,
with a marina berth, I get to use my boat in some way or another
several days every week..
---------------------------------
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Yeah! It would take a pretty special little sailboat and good timing to get out of the Bay and into the Pacific wouldn't it. If you didn't plan properly, the current could be moving faster and in the wrong direction, than the boat, that wouldn't be fun!Even large boats can experience trouble with the shoals, sea swell,
winds and current. At times the sea swell from the west, the wind
waves from the west can pile up on the shoals the strong outgoing
current from the east in the area known as "the potato patch". Avoid
the temptation to take advantage of an outgoing current when you leave
the Golden Gate. Also, fighting the strong incoming current can be an
uphill climb.
http://www.seamagazine.com/destinations/DM_article.asp?id=713
> The size of the boat, in my case, is determined by my available building and storage space and inexpensive trailering. It will have to stay at home when not being used.In my case, after a lot of research I found that Phil Bolger's Micro
was the maximum boat that could fit on a trailer in my driveway. I
built the 'Navigator cabin' Chinese gaff sail version, and honestly, I
found the set up time of the Chinese gaff sail to be excessive for
trailer sailing. After 3 years of begging I was able to get a tiny
marina berth and I am very happy with this arrangement. Presently,
with a marina berth, I get to use my boat in some way or another
several days every week..
A few years ago there was a Rutan Long-EZ sitting abandoned in a hanger up in Seymour, IN. It's builder knew how many shortcuts he'd taken in the fiberglass layup, and neither he, nor anyone else wanted to fly it. It looked fine with an excellent paint job.
One problem with fiberglass structures is that non-destructive testing is very difficult. Out at GD in Fort Worth they had fancy ultrasonic test equipment, but it still required a great deal of operator skill and a lot of time to detect faults such as failure of the layers to properly bond or to wet-out the carbon fiber.
Most homebuilts come out too heavy because the builder adds "just a little bit more structure here." Actually, that's true of prototypes built by the professionals too. I remember fierce battles on both the A-12 and the F-22 to go back and cut out weight, one ounce at a time.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
One problem with fiberglass structures is that non-destructive testing is very difficult. Out at GD in Fort Worth they had fancy ultrasonic test equipment, but it still required a great deal of operator skill and a lot of time to detect faults such as failure of the layers to properly bond or to wet-out the carbon fiber.
Most homebuilts come out too heavy because the builder adds "just a little bit more structure here." Actually, that's true of prototypes built by the professionals too. I remember fierce battles on both the A-12 and the F-22 to go back and cut out weight, one ounce at a time.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Kristine Bennett
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
I'm one of those homebuilt aircraft nuts as well. It
looks like the plans for our aircraft will be ready in
the next few weeks so any boat building is on hold.
But it doesn't stop me from looking. You know kind of
like looking at a good looking woman walking by... You
just can't touch!
Well some times you can when she happens to be your
Sweetie as well!
A lot of the things you do on an aircraft to keep
things as light as you can but still be strong works
with boats as well.
I have also seen the aftermath of boats being tightly
tarpped for 6 month or longer and you can have a big
mess with mold and funny stuff growing out of the
ropes that were laying in the deck.
On one boat I saw the latex paint growing mold!
Blessings Krissie
--- Dennis Mingear <dennismingear@...> wrote:
> Yes, but, depending on the ratio of resin to filler
> you can also use it as a filler for the weave of the
> cloth that you used on the plywood. You can also
> include some alcohol in the filler mix and make a
> very dry micro-mix that is very much easier to sand
> than just resin and micro balloons alone.
>
> The aircraft people first fill the weave with a
> micro slurry and then after sanding, fill the
> remaining or resulting pin holes with various
> spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
>
> Lots of info on these procedures in the homebuilt
> aircraft world and websites.
>
> So depending on the mix, it can be used for
> fairing and filling.
>
> Denny ...
>
> derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
> As I understand it, microballoons, whether
> phenolic or glass, are for fairing. Once the surface
> is the right shape, you still need a primer to fill
> those broken baubles and get ready for your final
> coat of paint.
>
> Roger
>derbyrm@...
>http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dennis Mingear
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and
> plywood
>
> Hello, I'm new to the group, just joined today.
>
> Go to this link
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
>
> They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers
> and some good info on various types of cloth. It's
> an homebuilt aircraft site, so saving weight and
> construction time are important to them.
>
> Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light
> weight filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like
> finish will still be a challenge.
>
> Denny ...
>
> "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
> Some great answers the only thing I would add is if
> you are going to
> cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a
> way for air to
> circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
>
> Jon
>
__________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Completely agree, you can disappear in an instant, never to be seen again. That would really take the fun out of sailing, wouldn't it!
Denny ...
lancasterdennis <dlancast@...> wrote:
-
Well Denny,
That's a tall order in my books. I have never been under the gate in
a small sailboat, but I know it can get really rough and dangerous
due to currents as mentioned. When I think bluewater and rough
conditions, I think, full keel, powerful hull design. Many a small
boat has circumnavigated as we all know. Much of it has to do with
the skill of the skipper and the soundness and sea keeping abilities
of the boat. You will have to hear from more experienced Bolger boat
owners as to the bluewater capabilites of these square boats. My Old
Shoe will only sail on lakes... I'm done cruising and crashing around
on the high seas.. even on my 11,000lb full keel 30 ft sailboat, I
was still biting my nails a number of times. I recall speaking with
the Pardey's at Port Townsend Wooden Boat show one year and what they
said about going bluewater was to be sure your hull is sound... what
can I say.
Best of luck to you.
Regards,
Dennis
Bellingham, Wa
-- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Mingear <dennismingear@...>
wrote:
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Denny ...
lancasterdennis <dlancast@...> wrote:
-
Well Denny,
That's a tall order in my books. I have never been under the gate in
a small sailboat, but I know it can get really rough and dangerous
due to currents as mentioned. When I think bluewater and rough
conditions, I think, full keel, powerful hull design. Many a small
boat has circumnavigated as we all know. Much of it has to do with
the skill of the skipper and the soundness and sea keeping abilities
of the boat. You will have to hear from more experienced Bolger boat
owners as to the bluewater capabilites of these square boats. My Old
Shoe will only sail on lakes... I'm done cruising and crashing around
on the high seas.. even on my 11,000lb full keel 30 ft sailboat, I
was still biting my nails a number of times. I recall speaking with
the Pardey's at Port Townsend Wooden Boat show one year and what they
said about going bluewater was to be sure your hull is sound... what
can I say.
Best of luck to you.
Regards,
Dennis
Bellingham, Wa
-- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Mingear <dennismingear@...>
wrote:
>construction that could be used for that kind of sailing?
> Thanks Dennis, the Micro is cool, no doubt.
>
> Is there anything in the 14 to 18 foot range that uses plywood
>might recomend, that size, that would work in that kind of water?
> A 16 foot sailboat would be about perfect, anything that you
>Bay
> Denny ...
>
> lancasterdennis <dlancast@...> wrote:
> -
> Lets not forget the Micro. However, I would not consider the Micro
> to be a bluewater boat and if you are talking about making the
> Farallons...
>
> Dennis
> Bellingham, WA
>
> -- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm sure several others on the list will chime in. There is
> a "Motor Sailer" variation of the Chebacco that was built for SF
> and the Cruising Conversion would help keep the cold breezes away.Bolger
> http://www.chebacco.com/
> >
> > The classic boat for that bay is the Pelican, but it's not a
> design, and the 12' version is not what one would call a pocketis
> cruiser. That said, until you have some sailing experience, there
> nothing more valuable than getting in with a fleet of similarboats.
> http://community-for
> 2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/index.html
> >
> > Roger
> > derbyrm@
> > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dennis Mingear
> > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 1:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
> >
> >
> > It is a great place, the aviation bent makes for higher prices
> I'm sure. I only mentioned it because they have some limited but
> concise information on fillers and so on.
> >
> > The alcohol dilution would only be used to fill the fiberglass
> cloth weave. I agree with you in that it would not be appropriate
> anything else.built
> >
> > I've spent a lot of time looking at pocket cruiser plans. I live
> in the San Franisco Bay Area and I'm looking for a small plans
> sailboat that I could use to sail the Bay and cruise the coastalfillers.
> waters of California including the Farallons.
> >
> > I know that boats like this are very personal but I'll venture a
> question anyway.
> >
> > Do you have any comments for a small sailboat suitable for this
> kind of work - uh ... fun?
> >
> > I've looked at several but I don't know enough about any of them
> to make an informed descision.
> >
> > Thanks for any comments you may provide.
> >
> > Denny ...
> >
> > derbyrm <derbyrm@> wrote:
> > Thank you Dennis. I prefer undiluted epoxy for filling since its
> strength is important to the fiberglass/epoxy composite.
> Microballoons have the lowest rating for strength of the many
> >make
> > You'll see phenolic microballons used on my centerboard at
> http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/CBdetail.html I'll be coating it
> with graphite filled epoxy soon to make it more slippery and less
> likely to jam in the case.
> >
> > I've been a happy customer of Aircraft Spruce for several
> decades. Good stuff, good service, VERY high prices.
> >
> > Roger
> > derbyrm@
> > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dennis Mingear
> > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
> >
> > Yes, but, depending on the ratio of resin to filler you can also
> use it as a filler for the weave of the cloth that you used on the
> plywood. You can also include some alcohol in the filler mix and
> a very dry micro-mix that is very much easier to sand than justresin
> and micro balloons alone.coat
> >
> > The aircraft people first fill the weave with a micro slurry and
> then after sanding, fill the remaining or resulting pin holes with
> various spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
> >
> > Lots of info on these procedures in the homebuilt aircraft world
> and websites.
> >
> > So depending on the mix, it can be used for fairing and filling.
> >
> > Denny ...
> >
> > derbyrm <derbyrm@> wrote:
> > As I understand it, microballoons, whether phenolic or glass, are
> for fairing. Once the surface is the right shape, you still need a
> primer to fill those broken baubles and get ready for your final
> of paint.site,
> >
> > Roger
> > derbyrm@
> > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dennis Mingear
> > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:59 AM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
> >
> > Hello, I'm new to the group, just joined today.
> >
> > Go to this link http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
> >
> > They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers and some
> good info on various types of cloth. It's an homebuilt aircraft
> so saving weight and construction time are important to them.---------------------------------
> >
> > Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light weight
> filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like finish will still be a
> challenge.
> >
> > Denny ...
> >
> > "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@> wrote:
> > Some great answers the only thing I would add is if you are going
> to
> > cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for air
> to
> > circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Just resin is not the answer you need to glass cloth
> > > to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
> > > helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
> > > as well.
> > >
> > > Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
> > > look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
> > > simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
> > > get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
> > > You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
> > > it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
> > > fill the boat cloth.
> > >
> > > I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
> > > same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
> > > if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
> > > site they will have it listed.
> > >
> > > Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
> > > and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
> > > that.
> > >
> > > Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
> > > get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
> > > give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
> > > usefull life.
> > >
> > > Blessings Krissie
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Get your own web address.
> > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s
> user panel and lay it on us.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Well Denny,
That's a tall order in my books. I have never been under the gate in
a small sailboat, but I know it can get really rough and dangerous
due to currents as mentioned. When I think bluewater and rough
conditions, I think, full keel, powerful hull design. Many a small
boat has circumnavigated as we all know. Much of it has to do with
the skill of the skipper and the soundness and sea keeping abilities
of the boat. You will have to hear from more experienced Bolger boat
owners as to the bluewater capabilites of these square boats. My Old
Shoe will only sail on lakes... I'm done cruising and crashing around
on the high seas.. even on my 11,000lb full keel 30 ft sailboat, I
was still biting my nails a number of times. I recall speaking with
the Pardey's at Port Townsend Wooden Boat show one year and what they
said about going bluewater was to be sure your hull is sound... what
can I say.
Best of luck to you.
Regards,
Dennis
Bellingham, Wa
-- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Mingear <dennismingear@...>
wrote:
Well Denny,
That's a tall order in my books. I have never been under the gate in
a small sailboat, but I know it can get really rough and dangerous
due to currents as mentioned. When I think bluewater and rough
conditions, I think, full keel, powerful hull design. Many a small
boat has circumnavigated as we all know. Much of it has to do with
the skill of the skipper and the soundness and sea keeping abilities
of the boat. You will have to hear from more experienced Bolger boat
owners as to the bluewater capabilites of these square boats. My Old
Shoe will only sail on lakes... I'm done cruising and crashing around
on the high seas.. even on my 11,000lb full keel 30 ft sailboat, I
was still biting my nails a number of times. I recall speaking with
the Pardey's at Port Townsend Wooden Boat show one year and what they
said about going bluewater was to be sure your hull is sound... what
can I say.
Best of luck to you.
Regards,
Dennis
Bellingham, Wa
-- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Mingear <dennismingear@...>
wrote:
>construction that could be used for that kind of sailing?
> Thanks Dennis, the Micro is cool, no doubt.
>
> Is there anything in the 14 to 18 foot range that uses plywood
>might recomend, that size, that would work in that kind of water?
> A 16 foot sailboat would be about perfect, anything that you
>Bay
> Denny ...
>
> lancasterdennis <dlancast@...> wrote:
> -
> Lets not forget the Micro. However, I would not consider the Micro
> to be a bluewater boat and if you are talking about making the
> Farallons...
>
> Dennis
> Bellingham, WA
>
> -- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm sure several others on the list will chime in. There is
> a "Motor Sailer" variation of the Chebacco that was built for SF
> and the Cruising Conversion would help keep the cold breezes away.Bolger
> http://www.chebacco.com/
> >
> > The classic boat for that bay is the Pelican, but it's not a
> design, and the 12' version is not what one would call a pocketis
> cruiser. That said, until you have some sailing experience, there
> nothing more valuable than getting in with a fleet of similarboats.
> http://community-for
> 2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/index.html
> >
> > Roger
> > derbyrm@
> > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dennis Mingear
> > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 1:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
> >
> >
> > It is a great place, the aviation bent makes for higher prices
> I'm sure. I only mentioned it because they have some limited but
> concise information on fillers and so on.
> >
> > The alcohol dilution would only be used to fill the fiberglass
> cloth weave. I agree with you in that it would not be appropriate
> anything else.built
> >
> > I've spent a lot of time looking at pocket cruiser plans. I live
> in the San Franisco Bay Area and I'm looking for a small plans
> sailboat that I could use to sail the Bay and cruise the coastalfillers.
> waters of California including the Farallons.
> >
> > I know that boats like this are very personal but I'll venture a
> question anyway.
> >
> > Do you have any comments for a small sailboat suitable for this
> kind of work - uh ... fun?
> >
> > I've looked at several but I don't know enough about any of them
> to make an informed descision.
> >
> > Thanks for any comments you may provide.
> >
> > Denny ...
> >
> > derbyrm <derbyrm@> wrote:
> > Thank you Dennis. I prefer undiluted epoxy for filling since its
> strength is important to the fiberglass/epoxy composite.
> Microballoons have the lowest rating for strength of the many
> >make
> > You'll see phenolic microballons used on my centerboard at
> http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/CBdetail.html I'll be coating it
> with graphite filled epoxy soon to make it more slippery and less
> likely to jam in the case.
> >
> > I've been a happy customer of Aircraft Spruce for several
> decades. Good stuff, good service, VERY high prices.
> >
> > Roger
> > derbyrm@
> > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dennis Mingear
> > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
> >
> > Yes, but, depending on the ratio of resin to filler you can also
> use it as a filler for the weave of the cloth that you used on the
> plywood. You can also include some alcohol in the filler mix and
> a very dry micro-mix that is very much easier to sand than justresin
> and micro balloons alone.coat
> >
> > The aircraft people first fill the weave with a micro slurry and
> then after sanding, fill the remaining or resulting pin holes with
> various spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
> >
> > Lots of info on these procedures in the homebuilt aircraft world
> and websites.
> >
> > So depending on the mix, it can be used for fairing and filling.
> >
> > Denny ...
> >
> > derbyrm <derbyrm@> wrote:
> > As I understand it, microballoons, whether phenolic or glass, are
> for fairing. Once the surface is the right shape, you still need a
> primer to fill those broken baubles and get ready for your final
> of paint.site,
> >
> > Roger
> > derbyrm@
> > http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dennis Mingear
> > To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:59 AM
> > Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
> >
> > Hello, I'm new to the group, just joined today.
> >
> > Go to this link http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
> >
> > They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers and some
> good info on various types of cloth. It's an homebuilt aircraft
> so saving weight and construction time are important to them.
> >
> > Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light weight
> filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like finish will still be a
> challenge.
> >
> > Denny ...
> >
> > "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@> wrote:
> > Some great answers the only thing I would add is if you are going
> to
> > cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for air
> to
> > circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Just resin is not the answer you need to glass cloth
> > > to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
> > > helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
> > > as well.
> > >
> > > Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
> > > look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
> > > simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
> > > get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
> > > You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
> > > it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
> > > fill the boat cloth.
> > >
> > > I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
> > > same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
> > > if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
> > > site they will have it listed.
> > >
> > > Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
> > > and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
> > > that.
> > >
> > > Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
> > > get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
> > > give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
> > > usefull life.
> > >
> > > Blessings Krissie
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Get your own web address.
> > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s
> user panel and lay it on us.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> It's here! Your new message!
> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Yes their prices are high but their service is great.
I have also used www.fiberglasssupply.com and they
seem to have better prices on their stuff. Also when
you are buying over 10 yards (I think it is) of cloth
you get a brake on the price.
I ordered stuff on monday and had it thursday the same
week. Their website also has a lot of good info in it
as well.
Blessings Krissie
--- derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
I have also used www.fiberglasssupply.com and they
seem to have better prices on their stuff. Also when
you are buying over 10 yards (I think it is) of cloth
you get a brake on the price.
I ordered stuff on monday and had it thursday the same
week. Their website also has a lot of good info in it
as well.
Blessings Krissie
--- derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
> Thank you Dennis. I prefer undiluted epoxy for____________________________________________________________________________________
> filling since its strength is important to the
> fiberglass/epoxy composite. Microballoons have the
> lowest rating for strength of the many fillers.
>
> You'll see phenolic microballons used on my
> centerboard at
>http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/CBdetail.html
> I'll be coating it with graphite filled epoxy soon
> to make it more slippery and less likely to jam in
> the case.
>
> I've been a happy customer of Aircraft Spruce for
> several decades. Good stuff, good service, VERY
> high prices.
>
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
I'm one of those homebuilt aircraft nuts as well. It
looks like the plans for our aircraft will be ready in
the next few weeks so any boat building is on hold.
But it doesn't stop me from looking. You know kind of
like looking at a good looking woman walking by... You
just can't touch!
Well some times you can when she happens to be your
Sweetie as well!
A lot of the things you do on an aircraft to keep
things as light as you can but still be strong works
with boats as well.
I have also seen the aftermath of boats being tightly
tarpped for 6 month or longer and you can have a big
mess with mold and funny stuff growing out of the
ropes that were laying in the deck.
On one boat I saw the latex paint growing mold!
Blessings Krissie
--- Dennis Mingear <dennismingear@...> wrote:
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
looks like the plans for our aircraft will be ready in
the next few weeks so any boat building is on hold.
But it doesn't stop me from looking. You know kind of
like looking at a good looking woman walking by... You
just can't touch!
Well some times you can when she happens to be your
Sweetie as well!
A lot of the things you do on an aircraft to keep
things as light as you can but still be strong works
with boats as well.
I have also seen the aftermath of boats being tightly
tarpped for 6 month or longer and you can have a big
mess with mold and funny stuff growing out of the
ropes that were laying in the deck.
On one boat I saw the latex paint growing mold!
Blessings Krissie
--- Dennis Mingear <dennismingear@...> wrote:
> Yes, but, depending on the ratio of resin to filler____________________________________________________________________________________
> you can also use it as a filler for the weave of the
> cloth that you used on the plywood. You can also
> include some alcohol in the filler mix and make a
> very dry micro-mix that is very much easier to sand
> than just resin and micro balloons alone.
>
> The aircraft people first fill the weave with a
> micro slurry and then after sanding, fill the
> remaining or resulting pin holes with various
> spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
>
> Lots of info on these procedures in the homebuilt
> aircraft world and websites.
>
> So depending on the mix, it can be used for
> fairing and filling.
>
> Denny ...
>
> derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
> As I understand it, microballoons, whether
> phenolic or glass, are for fairing. Once the surface
> is the right shape, you still need a primer to fill
> those broken baubles and get ready for your final
> coat of paint.
>
> Roger
>derbyrm@...
>http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dennis Mingear
> To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and
> plywood
>
> Hello, I'm new to the group, just joined today.
>
> Go to this link
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
>
> They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers
> and some good info on various types of cloth. It's
> an homebuilt aircraft site, so saving weight and
> construction time are important to them.
>
> Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light
> weight filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like
> finish will still be a challenge.
>
> Denny ...
>
> "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
> Some great answers the only thing I would add is if
> you are going to
> cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a
> way for air to
> circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
>
> Jon
>
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Yeah! It would take a pretty special little sailboat and good timing to get out of the Bay and into the Pacific wouldn't it. If you didn't plan properly, the current could be moving faster and in the wrong direction, than the boat, that wouldn't be fun!
The size of the boat, in my case, is determined by my available building and storage space and inexpensive trailering. It will have to stay at home when not being used. Same with planes, if you can't keep it on a trailer you are probably outta luck, because it can take 10 years or more, to get a hangar or tiedown near my house.
Denny ...
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
The size of the boat, in my case, is determined by my available building and storage space and inexpensive trailering. It will have to stay at home when not being used. Same with planes, if you can't keep it on a trailer you are probably outta luck, because it can take 10 years or more, to get a hangar or tiedown near my house.
Denny ...
Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:
On 6/25/07, Dennis Mingear <dennismingear@...> wrote:
> I've spent a lot of time looking at pocket cruiser plans. I live in the San Franisco Bay Area and I'm looking for a small plans built sailboat that I could use to sail the Bay and cruise the coastal waters of California including the Farallons.
As you probably know, the biggest issue around S.F. is storage. With
marina berths very difficult, and even trailer storage around SF being
tough or expensive. How will you store and launch? Your answer has
bearing on which boat to choose.
I am a personal fan of the Bolger Micro Navigator, as the bright warm
cabin is nice in the cold wind.
For a trip to the Faralons (which I have not yet done) I understand
the key thing is timing the current, as iit can get very rough
entering and exiting the Golden Gate.
---------------------------------
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On 6/25/07, Dennis Mingear <dennismingear@...> wrote:
marina berths very difficult, and even trailer storage around SF being
tough or expensive. How will you store and launch? Your answer has
bearing on which boat to choose.
I am a personal fan of the Bolger Micro Navigator, as the bright warm
cabin is nice in the cold wind.
For a trip to the Faralons (which I have not yet done) I understand
the key thing is timing the current, as iit can get very rough
entering and exiting the Golden Gate.
> I've spent a lot of time looking at pocket cruiser plans. I live in the San Franisco Bay Area and I'm looking for a small plans built sailboat that I could use to sail the Bay and cruise the coastal waters of California including the Farallons.As you probably know, the biggest issue around S.F. is storage. With
marina berths very difficult, and even trailer storage around SF being
tough or expensive. How will you store and launch? Your answer has
bearing on which boat to choose.
I am a personal fan of the Bolger Micro Navigator, as the bright warm
cabin is nice in the cold wind.
For a trip to the Faralons (which I have not yet done) I understand
the key thing is timing the current, as iit can get very rough
entering and exiting the Golden Gate.
Thanks Dennis, the Micro is cool, no doubt.
Is there anything in the 14 to 18 foot range that uses plywood construction that could be used for that kind of sailing?
A 16 foot sailboat would be about perfect, anything that you might recomend, that size, that would work in that kind of water?
Denny ...
lancasterdennis <dlancast@...> wrote:
-
Lets not forget the Micro. However, I would not consider the Micro
to be a bluewater boat and if you are talking about making the
Farallons...
Dennis
Bellingham, WA
-- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@...> wrote:
and the Cruising Conversion would help keep the cold breezes away.
http://www.chebacco.com/
cruiser. That said, until you have some sailing experience, there is
nothing more valuable than getting in with a fleet of similar boats.
http://community-
2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/index.html
concise information on fillers and so on.
anything else.
sailboat that I could use to sail the Bay and cruise the coastal
waters of California including the Farallons.
Microballoons have the lowest rating for strength of the many fillers.
with graphite filled epoxy soon to make it more slippery and less
likely to jam in the case.
plywood. You can also include some alcohol in the filler mix and make
a very dry micro-mix that is very much easier to sand than just resin
and micro balloons alone.
various spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
primer to fill those broken baubles and get ready for your final coat
of paint.
so saving weight and construction time are important to them.
challenge.
It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Is there anything in the 14 to 18 foot range that uses plywood construction that could be used for that kind of sailing?
A 16 foot sailboat would be about perfect, anything that you might recomend, that size, that would work in that kind of water?
Denny ...
lancasterdennis <dlancast@...> wrote:
-
Lets not forget the Micro. However, I would not consider the Micro
to be a bluewater boat and if you are talking about making the
Farallons...
Dennis
Bellingham, WA
-- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@...> wrote:
>a "Motor Sailer" variation of the Chebacco that was built for SF Bay
> I'm sure several others on the list will chime in. There is
and the Cruising Conversion would help keep the cold breezes away.
http://www.chebacco.com/
>design, and the 12' version is not what one would call a pocket
> The classic boat for that bay is the Pelican, but it's not a Bolger
cruiser. That said, until you have some sailing experience, there is
nothing more valuable than getting in with a fleet of similar boats.
http://community-
2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/index.html
>I'm sure. I only mentioned it because they have some limited but
> Roger
> derbyrm@...
> http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dennis Mingear
> To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 1:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
>
>
> It is a great place, the aviation bent makes for higher prices
concise information on fillers and so on.
>cloth weave. I agree with you in that it would not be appropriate for
> The alcohol dilution would only be used to fill the fiberglass
anything else.
>in the San Franisco Bay Area and I'm looking for a small plans built
> I've spent a lot of time looking at pocket cruiser plans. I live
sailboat that I could use to sail the Bay and cruise the coastal
waters of California including the Farallons.
>question anyway.
> I know that boats like this are very personal but I'll venture a
>kind of work - uh ... fun?
> Do you have any comments for a small sailboat suitable for this
>to make an informed descision.
> I've looked at several but I don't know enough about any of them
>strength is important to the fiberglass/epoxy composite.
> Thanks for any comments you may provide.
>
> Denny ...
>
> derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
> Thank you Dennis. I prefer undiluted epoxy for filling since its
Microballoons have the lowest rating for strength of the many fillers.
>http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/CBdetail.html I'll be coating it
> You'll see phenolic microballons used on my centerboard at
with graphite filled epoxy soon to make it more slippery and less
likely to jam in the case.
>decades. Good stuff, good service, VERY high prices.
> I've been a happy customer of Aircraft Spruce for several
>use it as a filler for the weave of the cloth that you used on the
> Roger
> derbyrm@...
> http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dennis Mingear
> To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
>
> Yes, but, depending on the ratio of resin to filler you can also
plywood. You can also include some alcohol in the filler mix and make
a very dry micro-mix that is very much easier to sand than just resin
and micro balloons alone.
>then after sanding, fill the remaining or resulting pin holes with
> The aircraft people first fill the weave with a micro slurry and
various spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
>and websites.
> Lots of info on these procedures in the homebuilt aircraft world
>for fairing. Once the surface is the right shape, you still need a
> So depending on the mix, it can be used for fairing and filling.
>
> Denny ...
>
> derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
> As I understand it, microballoons, whether phenolic or glass, are
primer to fill those broken baubles and get ready for your final coat
of paint.
>good info on various types of cloth. It's an homebuilt aircraft site,
> Roger
> derbyrm@...
> http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dennis Mingear
> To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
>
> Hello, I'm new to the group, just joined today.
>
> Go to this link http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
>
> They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers and some
so saving weight and construction time are important to them.
>filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like finish will still be a
> Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light weight
challenge.
>to
> Denny ...
>
> "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
> Some great answers the only thing I would add is if you are going
> cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for airto
> circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.user panel and lay it on us.
>
> Jon
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@> wrote:
> >
> > Just resin is not the answer you need to glass cloth
> > to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
> > helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
> > as well.
> >
> > Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
> > look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
> > simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
> > get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
> > You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
> > it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
> > fill the boat cloth.
> >
> > I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
> > same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
> > if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
> > site they will have it listed.
> >
> > Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
> > and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
> > that.
> >
> > Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
> > get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
> > give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
> > usefull life.
> >
> > Blessings Krissie
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your own web address.
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ---------------------------------
> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s
>---------------------------------
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ---------------------------------
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-
Lets not forget the Micro. However, I would not consider the Micro
to be a bluewater boat and if you are talking about making the
Farallons...
Dennis
Bellingham, WA
-- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@...> wrote:
and the Cruising Conversion would help keep the cold breezes away.
http://www.chebacco.com/
cruiser. That said, until you have some sailing experience, there is
nothing more valuable than getting in with a fleet of similar boats.
http://community-
2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/index.html
concise information on fillers and so on.
anything else.
sailboat that I could use to sail the Bay and cruise the coastal
waters of California including the Farallons.
Microballoons have the lowest rating for strength of the many fillers.
with graphite filled epoxy soon to make it more slippery and less
likely to jam in the case.
plywood. You can also include some alcohol in the filler mix and make
a very dry micro-mix that is very much easier to sand than just resin
and micro balloons alone.
various spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
primer to fill those broken baubles and get ready for your final coat
of paint.
so saving weight and construction time are important to them.
challenge.
Lets not forget the Micro. However, I would not consider the Micro
to be a bluewater boat and if you are talking about making the
Farallons...
Dennis
Bellingham, WA
-- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "derbyrm" <derbyrm@...> wrote:
>a "Motor Sailer" variation of the Chebacco that was built for SF Bay
> I'm sure several others on the list will chime in. There is
and the Cruising Conversion would help keep the cold breezes away.
http://www.chebacco.com/
>design, and the 12' version is not what one would call a pocket
> The classic boat for that bay is the Pelican, but it's not a Bolger
cruiser. That said, until you have some sailing experience, there is
nothing more valuable than getting in with a fleet of similar boats.
http://community-
2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/index.html
>I'm sure. I only mentioned it because they have some limited but
> Roger
> derbyrm@...
> http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dennis Mingear
> To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 1:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
>
>
> It is a great place, the aviation bent makes for higher prices
concise information on fillers and so on.
>cloth weave. I agree with you in that it would not be appropriate for
> The alcohol dilution would only be used to fill the fiberglass
anything else.
>in the San Franisco Bay Area and I'm looking for a small plans built
> I've spent a lot of time looking at pocket cruiser plans. I live
sailboat that I could use to sail the Bay and cruise the coastal
waters of California including the Farallons.
>question anyway.
> I know that boats like this are very personal but I'll venture a
>kind of work - uh ... fun?
> Do you have any comments for a small sailboat suitable for this
>to make an informed descision.
> I've looked at several but I don't know enough about any of them
>strength is important to the fiberglass/epoxy composite.
> Thanks for any comments you may provide.
>
> Denny ...
>
> derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
> Thank you Dennis. I prefer undiluted epoxy for filling since its
Microballoons have the lowest rating for strength of the many fillers.
>http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/CBdetail.html I'll be coating it
> You'll see phenolic microballons used on my centerboard at
with graphite filled epoxy soon to make it more slippery and less
likely to jam in the case.
>decades. Good stuff, good service, VERY high prices.
> I've been a happy customer of Aircraft Spruce for several
>use it as a filler for the weave of the cloth that you used on the
> Roger
> derbyrm@...
> http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dennis Mingear
> To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
>
> Yes, but, depending on the ratio of resin to filler you can also
plywood. You can also include some alcohol in the filler mix and make
a very dry micro-mix that is very much easier to sand than just resin
and micro balloons alone.
>then after sanding, fill the remaining or resulting pin holes with
> The aircraft people first fill the weave with a micro slurry and
various spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
>and websites.
> Lots of info on these procedures in the homebuilt aircraft world
>for fairing. Once the surface is the right shape, you still need a
> So depending on the mix, it can be used for fairing and filling.
>
> Denny ...
>
> derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
> As I understand it, microballoons, whether phenolic or glass, are
primer to fill those broken baubles and get ready for your final coat
of paint.
>good info on various types of cloth. It's an homebuilt aircraft site,
> Roger
> derbyrm@...
> http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dennis Mingear
> To: bolger@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
>
> Hello, I'm new to the group, just joined today.
>
> Go to this link http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
>
> They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers and some
so saving weight and construction time are important to them.
>filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like finish will still be a
> Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light weight
challenge.
>to
> Denny ...
>
> "Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
> Some great answers the only thing I would add is if you are going
> cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for airto
> circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.user panel and lay it on us.
>
> Jon
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@> wrote:
> >
> > Just resin is not the answer you need to glass cloth
> > to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
> > helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
> > as well.
> >
> > Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
> > look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
> > simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
> > get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
> > You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
> > it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
> > fill the boat cloth.
> >
> > I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
> > same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
> > if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
> > site they will have it listed.
> >
> > Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
> > and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
> > that.
> >
> > Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
> > get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
> > give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
> > usefull life.
> >
> > Blessings Krissie
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your own web address.
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ---------------------------------
> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ---------------------------------
> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I'm sure several others on the list will chime in. There is a "Motor Sailer" variation of the Chebacco that was built for SF Bay and the Cruising Conversion would help keep the cold breezes away.http://www.chebacco.com/
The classic boat for that bay is the Pelican, but it's not a Bolger design, and the 12' version is not what one would call a pocket cruiser. That said, until you have some sailing experience, there is nothing more valuable than getting in with a fleet of similar boats.http://community-2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/index.html
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
The classic boat for that bay is the Pelican, but it's not a Bolger design, and the 12' version is not what one would call a pocket cruiser. That said, until you have some sailing experience, there is nothing more valuable than getting in with a fleet of similar boats.http://community-2.webtv.net/PelicanSailboat/SFPELICANSAILBOATS/index.html
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Mingear
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
It is a great place, the aviation bent makes for higher prices I'm sure. I only mentioned it because they have some limited but concise information on fillers and so on.
The alcohol dilution would only be used to fill the fiberglass cloth weave. I agree with you in that it would not be appropriate for anything else.
I've spent a lot of time looking at pocket cruiser plans. I live in the San Franisco Bay Area and I'm looking for a small plans built sailboat that I could use to sail the Bay and cruise the coastal waters of California including the Farallons.
I know that boats like this are very personal but I'll venture a question anyway.
Do you have any comments for a small sailboat suitable for this kind of work - uh ... fun?
I've looked at several but I don't know enough about any of them to make an informed descision.
Thanks for any comments you may provide.
Denny ...
derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
Thank you Dennis. I prefer undiluted epoxy for filling since its strength is important to the fiberglass/epoxy composite. Microballoons have the lowest rating for strength of the many fillers.
You'll see phenolic microballons used on my centerboard athttp://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/CBdetail.htmlI'll be coating it with graphite filled epoxy soon to make it more slippery and less likely to jam in the case.
I've been a happy customer of Aircraft Spruce for several decades. Good stuff, good service, VERY high prices.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Mingear
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
Yes, but, depending on the ratio of resin to filler you can also use it as a filler for the weave of the cloth that you used on the plywood. You can also include some alcohol in the filler mix and make a very dry micro-mix that is very much easier to sand than just resin and micro balloons alone.
The aircraft people first fill the weave with a micro slurry and then after sanding, fill the remaining or resulting pin holes with various spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
Lots of info on these procedures in the homebuilt aircraft world and websites.
So depending on the mix, it can be used for fairing and filling.
Denny ...
derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
As I understand it, microballoons, whether phenolic or glass, are for fairing. Once the surface is the right shape, you still need a primer to fill those broken baubles and get ready for your final coat of paint.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Mingear
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
Hello, I'm new to the group, just joined today.
Go to this linkhttp://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers and some good info on various types of cloth. It's an homebuilt aircraft site, so saving weight and construction time are important to them.
Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light weight filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like finish will still be a challenge.
Denny ...
"Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
Some great answers the only thing I would add is if you are going to
cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for air to
circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Just resin is not the answer you need to glass cloth
> to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
> helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
> as well.
>
> Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
> look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
> simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
> get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
> You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
> it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
> fill the boat cloth.
>
> I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
> same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
> if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
> site they will have it listed.
>
> Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
> and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
> that.
>
> Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
> get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
> give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
> usefull life.
>
> Blessings Krissie
---------------------------------
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It is a great place, the aviation bent makes for higher prices I'm sure. I only mentioned it because they have some limited but concise information on fillers and so on.
The alcohol dilution would only be used to fill the fiberglass cloth weave. I agree with you in that it would not be appropriate for anything else.
I've spent a lot of time looking at pocket cruiser plans. I live in the San Franisco Bay Area and I'm looking for a small plans built sailboat that I could use to sail the Bay and cruise the coastal waters of California including the Farallons.
I know that boats like this are very personal but I'll venture a question anyway.
Do you have any comments for a small sailboat suitable for this kind of work - uh ... fun?
I've looked at several but I don't know enough about any of them to make an informed descision.
Thanks for any comments you may provide.
Denny ...
derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
Thank you Dennis. I prefer undiluted epoxy for filling since its strength is important to the fiberglass/epoxy composite. Microballoons have the lowest rating for strength of the many fillers.
You'll see phenolic microballons used on my centerboard athttp://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/CBdetail.htmlI'll be coating it with graphite filled epoxy soon to make it more slippery and less likely to jam in the case.
I've been a happy customer of Aircraft Spruce for several decades. Good stuff, good service, VERY high prices.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
The alcohol dilution would only be used to fill the fiberglass cloth weave. I agree with you in that it would not be appropriate for anything else.
I've spent a lot of time looking at pocket cruiser plans. I live in the San Franisco Bay Area and I'm looking for a small plans built sailboat that I could use to sail the Bay and cruise the coastal waters of California including the Farallons.
I know that boats like this are very personal but I'll venture a question anyway.
Do you have any comments for a small sailboat suitable for this kind of work - uh ... fun?
I've looked at several but I don't know enough about any of them to make an informed descision.
Thanks for any comments you may provide.
Denny ...
derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
Thank you Dennis. I prefer undiluted epoxy for filling since its strength is important to the fiberglass/epoxy composite. Microballoons have the lowest rating for strength of the many fillers.
You'll see phenolic microballons used on my centerboard athttp://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/CBdetail.htmlI'll be coating it with graphite filled epoxy soon to make it more slippery and less likely to jam in the case.
I've been a happy customer of Aircraft Spruce for several decades. Good stuff, good service, VERY high prices.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Mingear
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
Yes, but, depending on the ratio of resin to filler you can also use it as a filler for the weave of the cloth that you used on the plywood. You can also include some alcohol in the filler mix and make a very dry micro-mix that is very much easier to sand than just resin and micro balloons alone.
The aircraft people first fill the weave with a micro slurry and then after sanding, fill the remaining or resulting pin holes with various spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
Lots of info on these procedures in the homebuilt aircraft world and websites.
So depending on the mix, it can be used for fairing and filling.
Denny ...
derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
As I understand it, microballoons, whether phenolic or glass, are for fairing. Once the surface is the right shape, you still need a primer to fill those broken baubles and get ready for your final coat of paint.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Mingear
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
Hello, I'm new to the group, just joined today.
Go to this linkhttp://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers and some good info on various types of cloth. It's an homebuilt aircraft site, so saving weight and construction time are important to them.
Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light weight filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like finish will still be a challenge.
Denny ...
"Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
Some great answers the only thing I would add is if you are going to
cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for air to
circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Just resin is not the answer you need to glass cloth
> to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
> helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
> as well.
>
> Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
> look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
> simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
> get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
> You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
> it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
> fill the boat cloth.
>
> I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
> same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
> if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
> site they will have it listed.
>
> Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
> and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
> that.
>
> Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
> get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
> give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
> usefull life.
>
> Blessings Krissie
---------------------------------
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you Dennis. I prefer undiluted epoxy for filling since its strength is important to the fiberglass/epoxy composite. Microballoons have the lowest rating for strength of the many fillers.
You'll see phenolic microballons used on my centerboard athttp://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/CBdetail.htmlI'll be coating it with graphite filled epoxy soon to make it more slippery and less likely to jam in the case.
I've been a happy customer of Aircraft Spruce for several decades. Good stuff, good service, VERY high prices.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
You'll see phenolic microballons used on my centerboard athttp://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm/CBdetail.htmlI'll be coating it with graphite filled epoxy soon to make it more slippery and less likely to jam in the case.
I've been a happy customer of Aircraft Spruce for several decades. Good stuff, good service, VERY high prices.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Mingear
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
Yes, but, depending on the ratio of resin to filler you can also use it as a filler for the weave of the cloth that you used on the plywood. You can also include some alcohol in the filler mix and make a very dry micro-mix that is very much easier to sand than just resin and micro balloons alone.
The aircraft people first fill the weave with a micro slurry and then after sanding, fill the remaining or resulting pin holes with various spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
Lots of info on these procedures in the homebuilt aircraft world and websites.
So depending on the mix, it can be used for fairing and filling.
Denny ...
derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
As I understand it, microballoons, whether phenolic or glass, are for fairing. Once the surface is the right shape, you still need a primer to fill those broken baubles and get ready for your final coat of paint.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Mingear
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
Hello, I'm new to the group, just joined today.
Go to this linkhttp://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers and some good info on various types of cloth. It's an homebuilt aircraft site, so saving weight and construction time are important to them.
Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light weight filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like finish will still be a challenge.
Denny ...
"Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
Some great answers the only thing I would add is if you are going to
cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for air to
circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Just resin is not the answer you need to glass cloth
> to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
> helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
> as well.
>
> Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
> look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
> simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
> get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
> You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
> it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
> fill the boat cloth.
>
> I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
> same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
> if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
> site they will have it listed.
>
> Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
> and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
> that.
>
> Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
> get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
> give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
> usefull life.
>
> Blessings Krissie
---------------------------------
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes, but, depending on the ratio of resin to filler you can also use it as a filler for the weave of the cloth that you used on the plywood. You can also include some alcohol in the filler mix and make a very dry micro-mix that is very much easier to sand than just resin and micro balloons alone.
The aircraft people first fill the weave with a micro slurry and then after sanding, fill the remaining or resulting pin holes with various spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
Lots of info on these procedures in the homebuilt aircraft world and websites.
So depending on the mix, it can be used for fairing and filling.
Denny ...
derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
As I understand it, microballoons, whether phenolic or glass, are for fairing. Once the surface is the right shape, you still need a primer to fill those broken baubles and get ready for your final coat of paint.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
The aircraft people first fill the weave with a micro slurry and then after sanding, fill the remaining or resulting pin holes with various spray-on fillers with UV inhibitors.
Lots of info on these procedures in the homebuilt aircraft world and websites.
So depending on the mix, it can be used for fairing and filling.
Denny ...
derbyrm <derbyrm@...> wrote:
As I understand it, microballoons, whether phenolic or glass, are for fairing. Once the surface is the right shape, you still need a primer to fill those broken baubles and get ready for your final coat of paint.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Mingear
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
Hello, I'm new to the group, just joined today.
Go to this linkhttp://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers and some good info on various types of cloth. It's an homebuilt aircraft site, so saving weight and construction time are important to them.
Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light weight filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like finish will still be a challenge.
Denny ...
"Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
Some great answers the only thing I would add is if you are going to
cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for air to
circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Just resin is not the answer you need to glass cloth
> to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
> helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
> as well.
>
> Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
> look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
> simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
> get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
> You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
> it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
> fill the boat cloth.
>
> I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
> same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
> if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
> site they will have it listed.
>
> Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
> and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
> that.
>
> Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
> get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
> give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
> usefull life.
>
> Blessings Krissie
---------------------------------
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As I understand it, microballoons, whether phenolic or glass, are for fairing. Once the surface is the right shape, you still need a primer to fill those broken baubles and get ready for your final coat of paint.
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
Roger
derbyrm@...
http://home.insightbb.com/~derbyrm
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Mingear
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: delamination of resin and plywood
Hello, I'm new to the group, just joined today.
Go to this linkhttp://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers and some good info on various types of cloth. It's an homebuilt aircraft site, so saving weight and construction time are important to them.
Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light weight filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like finish will still be a challenge.
Denny ...
"Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
Some great answers the only thing I would add is if you are going to
cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for air to
circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Just resin is not the answer you need to glass cloth
> to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
> helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
> as well.
>
> Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
> look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
> simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
> get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
> You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
> it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
> fill the boat cloth.
>
> I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
> same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
> if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
> site they will have it listed.
>
> Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
> and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
> that.
>
> Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
> get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
> give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
> usefull life.
>
> Blessings Krissie
---------------------------------
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello, I'm new to the group, just joined today.
Go to this linkhttp://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers and some good info on various types of cloth. It's an homebuilt aircraft site, so saving weight and construction time are important to them.
Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light weight filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like finish will still be a challenge.
Denny ...
"Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
Some great answers the only thing I would add is if you are going to
cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for air to
circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
Jon
Go to this linkhttp://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html
They have a nice article on very lightweight fillers and some good info on various types of cloth. It's an homebuilt aircraft site, so saving weight and construction time are important to them.
Micro balloons and epoxy can make a very nice light weight filler, but sanding it down to a mirror like finish will still be a challenge.
Denny ...
"Jon & Wanda(Tink)" <windyjon@...> wrote:
Some great answers the only thing I would add is if you are going to
cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for air to
circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Just resin is not the answer you need to glass cloth
> to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
> helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
> as well.
>
> Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
> look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
> simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
> get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
> You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
> it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
> fill the boat cloth.
>
> I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
> same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
> if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
> site they will have it listed.
>
> Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
> and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
> that.
>
> Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
> get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
> give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
> usefull life.
>
> Blessings Krissie
---------------------------------
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Some great answers the only thing I would add is if you are going to
cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for air to
circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
Jon
cover a boat with a tarp buy a good one and create a way for air to
circulate so it can dry out if it gets damp or wet.
Jon
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kristine Bennett <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> Just resin is not the answer you need to glass cloth
> to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
> helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
> as well.
>
> Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
> look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
> simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
> get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
> You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
> it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
> fill the boat cloth.
>
> I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
> same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
> if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
> site they will have it listed.
>
> Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
> and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
> that.
>
> Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
> get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
> give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
> usefull life.
>
> Blessings Krissie
Just resin is not the answer you need to glass cloth
to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
as well.
Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
fill the boat cloth.
I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
site they will have it listed.
Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
that.
Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
usefull life.
Blessings Krissie
--- mark <planzman@...> wrote:
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
to add bulk for the resin harden in also the cloth
helps in adding to the over all strenth of the hulls
as well.
Epoxy is the best to use and as for your glass cloth
look at your industral styles I like the 7781 for the
simple reason it's a satin finsh to the cloth so you
get a smoother finsh from the cloth then "boat cloth".
You are going to spend a bit more for your cloth BUT
it will save you hours in sanding time and epoxy to
fill the boat cloth.
I know they make a number of lighter weights of the
same style cloth but I can't remember the numbers but
if you look at www.fiberglasssupply.com I think is the
site they will have it listed.
Yep you will need to clean up the hulls to bright wood
and start all over. I'm sure you didn't want to hear
that.
Also make sure your hulls are sealed so no water can
get into them no matter where it comes from. That will
give your hulls the best chance to see a long and
usefull life.
Blessings Krissie
--- mark <planzman@...> wrote:
> What do I do now?____________________________________________________________________________________
>
> I built two wooden hulls for a pontoon boat (not
> bolger) and moved the
> completed boat out side and then we got some rain
> which got into the
> hulls and now the resin is coming off the ply wood.
> I took the two
> pontoons back off the deck and using a chisel I am
> able to remove both
> the paint and the resin dollar bill size chunks.
>
> I did not use glass! only resin. Should I clean up
> the wood, and glass
> and resin again and make sure the top is water tight
> before I remount
> the hulls.
>
> What type resin is best, epoxy, poly-u ? What
> weight glass, woven,
> biderectional?
>
>
> thanks
>
>
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Polyester and vinylester resins are NOT adhesives so they should not be used
on wood.
Sure, some people report no problems with this approach and they preach that
it's okay to do this ... but lots of others have had serious problems with
it -- maybe not immediately like you did, but several years later.
If you're building in wood you should always use EPOXY. If you're building in
fiberglass use epoxy (always better) or an -ester (usually cheaper).
It wouldn't hurt to buy a tarp and keep the boat covered and dry too ... :)
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
on wood.
Sure, some people report no problems with this approach and they preach that
it's okay to do this ... but lots of others have had serious problems with
it -- maybe not immediately like you did, but several years later.
If you're building in wood you should always use EPOXY. If you're building in
fiberglass use epoxy (always better) or an -ester (usually cheaper).
It wouldn't hurt to buy a tarp and keep the boat covered and dry too ... :)
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> I built two wooden hulls for a pontoon boat (not bolger) and moved the
> completed boat out side and then we got some rain which got into the
> hulls and now the resin is coming off the ply wood. I took the two
> pontoons back off the deck and using a chisel I am able to remove both
> the paint and the resin dollar bill size chunks.
>
> I did not use glass! only resin. Should I clean up the wood, and glass
> and resin again and make sure the top is water tight before I remount
> the hulls.
>
> What type resin is best, epoxy, poly-u ? What weight glass, woven,
> biderectional?
What do I do now?
I built two wooden hulls for a pontoon boat (not bolger) and moved the
completed boat out side and then we got some rain which got into the
hulls and now the resin is coming off the ply wood. I took the two
pontoons back off the deck and using a chisel I am able to remove both
the paint and the resin dollar bill size chunks.
I did not use glass! only resin. Should I clean up the wood, and glass
and resin again and make sure the top is water tight before I remount
the hulls.
What type resin is best, epoxy, poly-u ? What weight glass, woven,
biderectional?
thanks
I built two wooden hulls for a pontoon boat (not bolger) and moved the
completed boat out side and then we got some rain which got into the
hulls and now the resin is coming off the ply wood. I took the two
pontoons back off the deck and using a chisel I am able to remove both
the paint and the resin dollar bill size chunks.
I did not use glass! only resin. Should I clean up the wood, and glass
and resin again and make sure the top is water tight before I remount
the hulls.
What type resin is best, epoxy, poly-u ? What weight glass, woven,
biderectional?
thanks