Re: [bolger] Re: Shorthanded Cruising AS19
What's really smokin' is the almost 7 knots Bob Larkin's Birdwatcher 2
makes with a 2 hp. Honda! Maybe I'm misremembering, but the day he first
launched her we had trouble keeping ahead of her in an overloaded Scandal
skiff with 4 hp. <g>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594264491186/
makes with a 2 hp. Honda! Maybe I'm misremembering, but the day he first
launched her we had trouble keeping ahead of her in an overloaded Scandal
skiff with 4 hp. <g>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/sets/72157594264491186/
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:53:13 -0700, graeme wrote:
>> BTW, Sage has reached 5.8 knots being pushed by a Tohatsu 3.5 horse
>> 4-stroke in calm conditions.
>
> Gee, that is smokin'
--
John <jkohnen@...>
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
<William Pitt>
Weight matters, but not as much at displacement speeds. It may take less
wind to push a JB, Jr. to hull speed than it does to push a heavier AS19
to hull speed, but unless the AS19 is severely undercanvased it shouldn't
take a living gale to provide more than enough horsepower to get her
there. <g>
wind to push a JB, Jr. to hull speed than it does to push a heavier AS19
to hull speed, but unless the AS19 is severely undercanvased it shouldn't
take a living gale to provide more than enough horsepower to get her
there. <g>
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 07:05:23 -0700, Rob R-S wrote:
> Weight matters, and I bet Jewelbox is quite a bit lighter that AS19.
> Michalak tends to design light compared to Bolger, in general.
--
John <jkohnen@...>
History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in
times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant
to endure. <Thurgood Marshall>
Hah! I thought so! <g> You weren't getting the optimum horsepower from the
wind when you were clocked. Most people lie about how their boats go
_faster_ than they really will. ;o) I've been impressed by how well my
Jewelbox, Jr. moves in light breezes. In the lightest airs I suspect that
the high rig (20' 8" mast) catches some of the stronger breeze above the
friction of the water, and the deep rocker has less surface area, and thus
skin friction, than a flat-bottom boat with flatter rocker. When the
breeze gets a little stronger the "sea of peas" shape kicks in and she
moves along real nice but, in moderate breezes at least, I haven't got her
past maybe 4.6 knots. <shrug> I'll have to check the batteries in my GPS
and take her out on a breezy day on the local mudhole (the Thistle
nationals are being held there this week, and every afternoon the wind has
been gusting into the mid to high 20 mph range! Probably too much
excitement in a racing dinghy <g>). My 15' sailing skiff, with a slightly
longer waterline length and much flatter rocker, has little trouble going
a little faster than theoretical hull speed (given a good wind, she's
undercanvased for use on the windy Oregon Coast), but the JB, Jr.
struggles to get past hull speed...
A curious thing is how fast Sage goes under power. That 3.5 Tohatsu is
more power than she _needs_, but she somehow manages to make us of it.
<shrug> I've never got my skiff to go as fast under power as she'll sail,
even using a 4 hp. engine, she just wants to dig her stern in... I would
have expected that the flatter rockered skiff would outdo the heavily
rockered JB, Jr.
BTW, I got the Tohatsu because for the same price as a 2 hp. Honda I could
get an engine with water cooling and a real (dog) clutch. On Sage, a
cruising boat, the extra weight doesn't matter much.
wind when you were clocked. Most people lie about how their boats go
_faster_ than they really will. ;o) I've been impressed by how well my
Jewelbox, Jr. moves in light breezes. In the lightest airs I suspect that
the high rig (20' 8" mast) catches some of the stronger breeze above the
friction of the water, and the deep rocker has less surface area, and thus
skin friction, than a flat-bottom boat with flatter rocker. When the
breeze gets a little stronger the "sea of peas" shape kicks in and she
moves along real nice but, in moderate breezes at least, I haven't got her
past maybe 4.6 knots. <shrug> I'll have to check the batteries in my GPS
and take her out on a breezy day on the local mudhole (the Thistle
nationals are being held there this week, and every afternoon the wind has
been gusting into the mid to high 20 mph range! Probably too much
excitement in a racing dinghy <g>). My 15' sailing skiff, with a slightly
longer waterline length and much flatter rocker, has little trouble going
a little faster than theoretical hull speed (given a good wind, she's
undercanvased for use on the windy Oregon Coast), but the JB, Jr.
struggles to get past hull speed...
A curious thing is how fast Sage goes under power. That 3.5 Tohatsu is
more power than she _needs_, but she somehow manages to make us of it.
<shrug> I've never got my skiff to go as fast under power as she'll sail,
even using a 4 hp. engine, she just wants to dig her stern in... I would
have expected that the flatter rockered skiff would outdo the heavily
rockered JB, Jr.
BTW, I got the Tohatsu because for the same price as a 2 hp. Honda I could
get an engine with water cooling and a real (dog) clutch. On Sage, a
cruising boat, the extra weight doesn't matter much.
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:49:39 -0700, cabbie wrote:
> ...
> I do have to clarify my statement about boat speed:
>
> I do not have a GPS or any other speed measuring equipment; I don't
> even sail with a watch.
>
> The first year I had the boat I was paced by Don S...on his Pearson
> 40 something. He reported 4.4 knots, and after thinking about that
> day, the wind was light. I was sailing on a close reach in smooth
> water on starboard tack; the wind was certainly less than 10 knots,
> but I'm not sure how much less. Don did remark that he was quite
> impressed with my speed in those conditions.
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
All the troubles of man come from his not knowing how to sit
still. <Blaise Pascal>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@...>
wrote:
Hi Cabbie:
Thanks much for the update.
I gather from that reaching performance in less than 10 knots that
one of the single luff flat reaching spinnakers that PCB's fond of
wouldn't add very much to speed, and they're not good close hauled.
Hmm, even though they look fairly uncomplicated less complexity does
the job quite acceptably, hey.
people are searching the subject in future they'll at least scan the
whole thread, I would think.
Cheers
Graeme
wrote:
> I don't even sail with a watch.Way to go - tide, sun, sky...
Hi Cabbie:
Thanks much for the update.
I gather from that reaching performance in less than 10 knots that
one of the single luff flat reaching spinnakers that PCB's fond of
wouldn't add very much to speed, and they're not good close hauled.
Hmm, even though they look fairly uncomplicated less complexity does
the job quite acceptably, hey.
> Should I edit my prior post, or will this message be a sufficientMy twopence. IMO there's no need to edit your earlier post. If
> correction?
people are searching the subject in future they'll at least scan the
whole thread, I would think.
Cheers
Graeme
Gentlemen,
I do have to clarify my statement about boat speed:
I do not have a GPS or any other speed measuring equipment; I don't
even sail with a watch.
The first year I had the boat I was paced by Don S...on his Pearson
40 something. He reported 4.4 knots, and after thinking about that
day, the wind was light. I was sailing on a close reach in smooth
water on starboard tack; the wind was certainly less than 10 knots,
but I'm not sure how much less. Don did remark that he was quite
impressed with my speed in those conditions.
Regarding the yacht club series, I did hold my own on the off wind
legs. Of course I did not make up the deficit lost up wind. This is
by no means a knock about sailing performance, as I am not wanting
for more (complexity). As to speed under power I assumed that my 4
hp. motor could reach hull speed; perhaps it did not. It does push
the boat fast enough that the stern wave will flood the aft well.
Should I edit my prior post, or will this message be a sufficient
correction?
cabbie
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
I do have to clarify my statement about boat speed:
I do not have a GPS or any other speed measuring equipment; I don't
even sail with a watch.
The first year I had the boat I was paced by Don S...on his Pearson
40 something. He reported 4.4 knots, and after thinking about that
day, the wind was light. I was sailing on a close reach in smooth
water on starboard tack; the wind was certainly less than 10 knots,
but I'm not sure how much less. Don did remark that he was quite
impressed with my speed in those conditions.
Regarding the yacht club series, I did hold my own on the off wind
legs. Of course I did not make up the deficit lost up wind. This is
by no means a knock about sailing performance, as I am not wanting
for more (complexity). As to speed under power I assumed that my 4
hp. motor could reach hull speed; perhaps it did not. It does push
the boat fast enough that the stern wave will flood the aft well.
Should I edit my prior post, or will this message be a sufficient
correction?
cabbie
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>a
> Cabbie,
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@>
> wrote:
> > Sorry for the late reply - I've just come off shift and I'm now
> back
> > home.
>
> mate, not at all. It is I who must say sorry for not responding
> straight away after reading your wonderful reply yesterday. That's
> fantastic post about this design and it still leaves me wondering.relatively
> There is much to consider in what you wrote and... I'm still
> considering... I'm not sure what to say - the fullness of your
> appraisal took me by surprise. No doubt once I digest things I'll
> probably have even more queries... again... sorry.
>
> For now: you "ask... why do you want an AS19?" Good question. I
> detect from your experience with the boat you've seen something in
> my wants/needs list that doesn't quite accord with selecting this
> design. I don't know what that is, other than I don't think I can
> quite have a bigger boat right now. I've read the little previously
> available on AS19's performance and thought it quite good - you
> know - speed, handling, etc. I knew there's not a lot of space, but
> thought for one or two, for a few weeks or so, that would do. It's
> not an open ocean long distance voyager, but struck me as
> bouyant, and seaworthy, with precautions, in all but the worst ofand
> weather. I admit I've been influenced by Chapelle's comments on the
> coastal sailing garveys here. I like the potential, I suspected, to
> safely coastwise cruise through the long oceanic swells, crossed
> with the ability to ably traverse extremely skinny waters. I love
> the very easy construction, trailerability, gaff furling/reefing
> scandalizing, and more; was concerned by the freeboard, on watchthere's
> crew comfort and exposure (hot humid and sun mostly but some winter
> cold here too), pointing ability, and more too.
>
> You wrote "If your primary sailing program involves shoal water
> sailing, this boat will brilliantly fulfill you needs." Oh,
> plenty of that, plenty. Mud flats, sand banks, coral reefs, lakes,besides
> rivers, but there also are more open crossings. For example,
> coastal cruising, some bays are quite protected and shallow at oneto
> end, but the other may be rougher than the ocean coast at times -
> and those islands do beckon.
>
> I would have thought AS19 went faster than 4.4 knots. Is it faster
> under sail when the hull is heeled? There's a worry :~?
>
> "Mike's boat WAS ventilated with a drilled PVC pipe installed
> between ports cut in the hull sides." Ah-ha, I wondered what that
> was. Thought it a kind of rack for stretching occy cords between
> provide gear stowage, or for pegging up wet things to dry!main
>
> "Bungee the tiller to weather and sheet the mizzen to the desired
> attitude, the boat will stay as if parked while you prepare the
> or have lunch." - that's a very desirable quality :-)
>
> You've mentioned many other points, good and bad, that require more
> pondering. Yet I am reassured in my overall original impressions
> that this boat could do for me.
>
> Thanks again for rounding out the knowledge about this design from
> your first hand experience. Sounds to me like AS19 has provided you
> with lots of fun and enjoyment. Great.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme
>
Weight matters, and I bet Jewelbox is quite a bit lighter that AS19. Michalak tends to design light compared to Bolger, in general.
--Rob
Re: Shorthanded Cruising AS19
Posted by: "John Kohnen"jhkohnen@...jhkohnen
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2007 4:10 am ((PDT))
I'm surprised that AS19 doesn't go faster than 4.4 knots. My Jewelbox,
Jr.
with a similar hull shape and much shorter waterline length does better
than that. <shrug> In fact, I don't believe it (sorry Cabbie). JB,
Jr's
"sea of peas" hull gets up to 4.5-4.6 knots easily, but won't go much
faster than that (though the GPS batteries were dead the day I was
trying
her out in mid-20 mph winds). The deep rocker seems to keep her from
easily pushing past theoretical hull speed. Hull speed for AS19 is
probably at least 5 knots, and I'd expect her to easily reach that
speed.
BTW, Sage has reached 5.8 knots being pushed by a Tohatsu 3.5 horse
4-stroke in calm conditions.
---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--Rob
Re: Shorthanded Cruising AS19
Posted by: "John Kohnen"jhkohnen@...jhkohnen
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2007 4:10 am ((PDT))
I'm surprised that AS19 doesn't go faster than 4.4 knots. My Jewelbox,
Jr.
with a similar hull shape and much shorter waterline length does better
than that. <shrug> In fact, I don't believe it (sorry Cabbie). JB,
Jr's
"sea of peas" hull gets up to 4.5-4.6 knots easily, but won't go much
faster than that (though the GPS batteries were dead the day I was
trying
her out in mid-20 mph winds). The deep rocker seems to keep her from
easily pushing past theoretical hull speed. Hull speed for AS19 is
probably at least 5 knots, and I'd expect her to easily reach that
speed.
BTW, Sage has reached 5.8 knots being pushed by a Tohatsu 3.5 horse
4-stroke in calm conditions.
---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi John,
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
> The deep rocker seems to keep her from easily pushing past
> theoretical hull speed. Hull speed for AS19 is probably at least 5
> knots, and I'd expect her to easily reach that speed.
That seems to accord with what Ryerson found for his Windsprint Tri.
IIRC beam seemed the greatest limiter, but the large rocker pushed up
too big a wave to climb over. (He said it was still fairly quick in any
case and made a great cruiser and camper.)
> BTW, Sage has reached 5.8 knots being pushed by a Tohatsu 3.5 horse
> 4-stroke in calm conditions.
Gee, that is smokin'
Graeme
I'm surprised that AS19 doesn't go faster than 4.4 knots. My Jewelbox, Jr.
with a similar hull shape and much shorter waterline length does better
than that. <shrug> In fact, I don't believe it (sorry Cabbie). JB, Jr's
"sea of peas" hull gets up to 4.5-4.6 knots easily, but won't go much
faster than that (though the GPS batteries were dead the day I was trying
her out in mid-20 mph winds). The deep rocker seems to keep her from
easily pushing past theoretical hull speed. Hull speed for AS19 is
probably at least 5 knots, and I'd expect her to easily reach that speed.
BTW, Sage has reached 5.8 knots being pushed by a Tohatsu 3.5 horse
4-stroke in calm conditions.
with a similar hull shape and much shorter waterline length does better
than that. <shrug> In fact, I don't believe it (sorry Cabbie). JB, Jr's
"sea of peas" hull gets up to 4.5-4.6 knots easily, but won't go much
faster than that (though the GPS batteries were dead the day I was trying
her out in mid-20 mph winds). The deep rocker seems to keep her from
easily pushing past theoretical hull speed. Hull speed for AS19 is
probably at least 5 knots, and I'd expect her to easily reach that speed.
BTW, Sage has reached 5.8 knots being pushed by a Tohatsu 3.5 horse
4-stroke in calm conditions.
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:58:34 -0700, graeme wrote:
> ...
> I would have thought AS19 went faster than 4.4 knots. Is it faster
> under sail when the hull is heeled? There's a worry :~?
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading. <Logan
Pearsall Smith>
The AS-19 sounds just perfect for sailing the vast southern shallows
of San Francisco Bay.
In theory, hull speed of a 19 foot LWL displacement hull is 5.84
knots, and the AS-19 is certainly a displacement hull considering that
it has rather large 500 pound chunk of lead as ballast. I want one!
of San Francisco Bay.
In theory, hull speed of a 19 foot LWL displacement hull is 5.84
knots, and the AS-19 is certainly a displacement hull considering that
it has rather large 500 pound chunk of lead as ballast. I want one!
Cabbie,
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@...>
wrote:
straight away after reading your wonderful reply yesterday. That's a
fantastic post about this design and it still leaves me wondering.
There is much to consider in what you wrote and... I'm still
considering... I'm not sure what to say - the fullness of your
appraisal took me by surprise. No doubt once I digest things I'll
probably have even more queries... again... sorry.
For now: you "ask... why do you want an AS19?" Good question. I
detect from your experience with the boat you've seen something in
my wants/needs list that doesn't quite accord with selecting this
design. I don't know what that is, other than I don't think I can
quite have a bigger boat right now. I've read the little previously
available on AS19's performance and thought it quite good - you
know - speed, handling, etc. I knew there's not a lot of space, but
thought for one or two, for a few weeks or so, that would do. It's
not an open ocean long distance voyager, but struck me as relatively
bouyant, and seaworthy, with precautions, in all but the worst of
weather. I admit I've been influenced by Chapelle's comments on the
coastal sailing garveys here. I like the potential, I suspected, to
safely coastwise cruise through the long oceanic swells, crossed
with the ability to ably traverse extremely skinny waters. I love
the very easy construction, trailerability, gaff furling/reefing and
scandalizing, and more; was concerned by the freeboard, on watch
crew comfort and exposure (hot humid and sun mostly but some winter
cold here too), pointing ability, and more too.
You wrote "If your primary sailing program involves shoal water
sailing, this boat will brilliantly fulfill you needs." Oh, there's
plenty of that, plenty. Mud flats, sand banks, coral reefs, lakes,
rivers, but there also are more open crossings. For example, besides
coastal cruising, some bays are quite protected and shallow at one
end, but the other may be rougher than the ocean coast at times -
and those islands do beckon.
I would have thought AS19 went faster than 4.4 knots. Is it faster
under sail when the hull is heeled? There's a worry :~?
"Mike's boat WAS ventilated with a drilled PVC pipe installed
between ports cut in the hull sides." Ah-ha, I wondered what that
was. Thought it a kind of rack for stretching occy cords between to
provide gear stowage, or for pegging up wet things to dry!
"Bungee the tiller to weather and sheet the mizzen to the desired
attitude, the boat will stay as if parked while you prepare the main
or have lunch." - that's a very desirable quality :-)
You've mentioned many other points, good and bad, that require more
pondering. Yet I am reassured in my overall original impressions
that this boat could do for me.
Thanks again for rounding out the knowledge about this design from
your first hand experience. Sounds to me like AS19 has provided you
with lots of fun and enjoyment. Great.
Cheers
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@...>
wrote:
> Sorry for the late reply - I've just come off shift and I'm nowback
> home.mate, not at all. It is I who must say sorry for not responding
straight away after reading your wonderful reply yesterday. That's a
fantastic post about this design and it still leaves me wondering.
There is much to consider in what you wrote and... I'm still
considering... I'm not sure what to say - the fullness of your
appraisal took me by surprise. No doubt once I digest things I'll
probably have even more queries... again... sorry.
For now: you "ask... why do you want an AS19?" Good question. I
detect from your experience with the boat you've seen something in
my wants/needs list that doesn't quite accord with selecting this
design. I don't know what that is, other than I don't think I can
quite have a bigger boat right now. I've read the little previously
available on AS19's performance and thought it quite good - you
know - speed, handling, etc. I knew there's not a lot of space, but
thought for one or two, for a few weeks or so, that would do. It's
not an open ocean long distance voyager, but struck me as relatively
bouyant, and seaworthy, with precautions, in all but the worst of
weather. I admit I've been influenced by Chapelle's comments on the
coastal sailing garveys here. I like the potential, I suspected, to
safely coastwise cruise through the long oceanic swells, crossed
with the ability to ably traverse extremely skinny waters. I love
the very easy construction, trailerability, gaff furling/reefing and
scandalizing, and more; was concerned by the freeboard, on watch
crew comfort and exposure (hot humid and sun mostly but some winter
cold here too), pointing ability, and more too.
You wrote "If your primary sailing program involves shoal water
sailing, this boat will brilliantly fulfill you needs." Oh, there's
plenty of that, plenty. Mud flats, sand banks, coral reefs, lakes,
rivers, but there also are more open crossings. For example, besides
coastal cruising, some bays are quite protected and shallow at one
end, but the other may be rougher than the ocean coast at times -
and those islands do beckon.
I would have thought AS19 went faster than 4.4 knots. Is it faster
under sail when the hull is heeled? There's a worry :~?
"Mike's boat WAS ventilated with a drilled PVC pipe installed
between ports cut in the hull sides." Ah-ha, I wondered what that
was. Thought it a kind of rack for stretching occy cords between to
provide gear stowage, or for pegging up wet things to dry!
"Bungee the tiller to weather and sheet the mizzen to the desired
attitude, the boat will stay as if parked while you prepare the main
or have lunch." - that's a very desirable quality :-)
You've mentioned many other points, good and bad, that require more
pondering. Yet I am reassured in my overall original impressions
that this boat could do for me.
Thanks again for rounding out the knowledge about this design from
your first hand experience. Sounds to me like AS19 has provided you
with lots of fun and enjoyment. Great.
Cheers
Graeme
Graeme,
Sorry for the late reply - I've just come off shift and I'm now back
home.
I would ask you why do you want an AS19? This boat is designed for
shoal water sailing and many compromises have been made in its design
to realize this criterion. The rudder is short and can be
overpowered by the main. Lee boards can be a handful in heavy seas.
The open bow scoops copious quantities of water in the steep chop of
Great South Bay, greatly slowing progress to windward. Bow slap at
anchor in open water will prevent most from getting a restful sleep
below.
If your primary sailing program involves shoal water sailing, this
boat will brilliantly fulfill you needs. Nothing is more fun than to
skim past wading clammers under the press of full sails. I've pushed
her up creeks. I've sailed her onto beaches and unloaded her crew
like a landing craft unloading a complement of Marines. The rig can
be lowered on the water to allow you to sneak under a causeway. The
genus of Bolger's design is that the AS19 still remains fairly
capable offshore.
To answer your specific questions:
The boat sails very well to windward in smooth to mildly choppy
water. I say this as long as we are comparing it to other gaff
rigged shoal draft boats like a Cape Cod Catboat. I have raced it in
my local yacht club series, and came in last every time! Compared to
keel boats I don't go upwind too well. I can easily sail 45 degrees
to the wind and make way if the bow doesn't scoop water.
Deciding to reef is based more on the amount of mast and boom bending
you can stand looking at, than on the amount of heeling or weather
helm. Remember, the mizzen is balancing the helm, but you won't be
able to bear away with the full main over powering the rudder in
winds over 15 knots. So you'll reef, or in an emergency you will
drop the peak of the main (scandalizing) by lowering the gaff. The
boat sails exceptionally well in this configuration in high winds.
If building this boat I would modify the bow and give up the easy
unloading at the beach. You would need to give great thought to how
you would climb aboard if swimming, or self rescue if you should fall
off. The bow opening is the only place to climb aboard from the
water. You won't be able to use the stern well because the outboard
will fill the available space; I use a short shaft Yamaha 4
horsepower motor. The bow well and opening is also used to store and
deploy the anchor. I would consult Mr. Bolger on any modifications
to his design. I would suggest putting a foot hold in the leeboards
to use as a ladder when deployed.
I do love the control of the boats heading and balance afforded by
the mizzen sail. Do follow Bolger's admonishment to have this sail
cut flat. The first sail up is always the mizzen. Bungee the tiller
to weather and sheet the mizzen to the desired attitude, the boat
will stay as if parked while you prepare the main or have lunch.
Occasionally, a large wave may knock you off - just reset. The
mizzen arrangement reduces the need for an autopilot; Bungee the
tiller and adjust your heading with the mizzen sheet and you will
remain on course for miles don't fall off!
Under power the open bow and the flat bottom is more of a liability
than while sailing. The hard chine effectively makes the hull a vee
shape when heeling while sailing. This feature is lost while the
hull is level - scooping water and heavy pounding will slow windward
progress in heavy seas. Additionally the motor propeller does
cavitate during heavy pitching. You should only consider powering
while close quarter maneuvering or in calm conditions. Hull speed
appears to be around 4.4 knots - you won't go faster.
Rigging the boat can go very quickly if you prepare. I used rope
parrels to attach the main to the mast, just make sure to slip them
onto the mast before stepping. Tie on both the gaff and main
halyards and you're mostly ready. My mizzen is laced to its mast,
and so both the sail and spar are stepped together. Plug in the boom
kin and rig both main and mizzen sheets to complete your setup.
Mike's boat WAS ventilated with a drilled PVC pipe installed between
ports cut in the hull sides. The idea being that the perforations
are drilled in the pipe above the water line when the boat is on its
beam ends. I did not like this arrangement and removed the piping.
I the installed clear Beckson screw ports in the cut outs. Now I
have light in the cabin and can remove the covers while anchored for
comfort. Make a small dodger over the main hatch secured by snaps at
the perimeter and supported by bows and you may be able to achieve
standing head room in the cabin.
There is plenty of room in the cabin to accommodate a couple and
their gear while cruising. Yes, you do have to rearrange things to
sleep, like putting the potty in the cockpit for the night.
Amazingly, a full size air mattress fits perfectly on the floor of
the cabin for a very comfortable rest.
Good luck,
cabbie
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
Sorry for the late reply - I've just come off shift and I'm now back
home.
I would ask you why do you want an AS19? This boat is designed for
shoal water sailing and many compromises have been made in its design
to realize this criterion. The rudder is short and can be
overpowered by the main. Lee boards can be a handful in heavy seas.
The open bow scoops copious quantities of water in the steep chop of
Great South Bay, greatly slowing progress to windward. Bow slap at
anchor in open water will prevent most from getting a restful sleep
below.
If your primary sailing program involves shoal water sailing, this
boat will brilliantly fulfill you needs. Nothing is more fun than to
skim past wading clammers under the press of full sails. I've pushed
her up creeks. I've sailed her onto beaches and unloaded her crew
like a landing craft unloading a complement of Marines. The rig can
be lowered on the water to allow you to sneak under a causeway. The
genus of Bolger's design is that the AS19 still remains fairly
capable offshore.
To answer your specific questions:
The boat sails very well to windward in smooth to mildly choppy
water. I say this as long as we are comparing it to other gaff
rigged shoal draft boats like a Cape Cod Catboat. I have raced it in
my local yacht club series, and came in last every time! Compared to
keel boats I don't go upwind too well. I can easily sail 45 degrees
to the wind and make way if the bow doesn't scoop water.
Deciding to reef is based more on the amount of mast and boom bending
you can stand looking at, than on the amount of heeling or weather
helm. Remember, the mizzen is balancing the helm, but you won't be
able to bear away with the full main over powering the rudder in
winds over 15 knots. So you'll reef, or in an emergency you will
drop the peak of the main (scandalizing) by lowering the gaff. The
boat sails exceptionally well in this configuration in high winds.
If building this boat I would modify the bow and give up the easy
unloading at the beach. You would need to give great thought to how
you would climb aboard if swimming, or self rescue if you should fall
off. The bow opening is the only place to climb aboard from the
water. You won't be able to use the stern well because the outboard
will fill the available space; I use a short shaft Yamaha 4
horsepower motor. The bow well and opening is also used to store and
deploy the anchor. I would consult Mr. Bolger on any modifications
to his design. I would suggest putting a foot hold in the leeboards
to use as a ladder when deployed.
I do love the control of the boats heading and balance afforded by
the mizzen sail. Do follow Bolger's admonishment to have this sail
cut flat. The first sail up is always the mizzen. Bungee the tiller
to weather and sheet the mizzen to the desired attitude, the boat
will stay as if parked while you prepare the main or have lunch.
Occasionally, a large wave may knock you off - just reset. The
mizzen arrangement reduces the need for an autopilot; Bungee the
tiller and adjust your heading with the mizzen sheet and you will
remain on course for miles don't fall off!
Under power the open bow and the flat bottom is more of a liability
than while sailing. The hard chine effectively makes the hull a vee
shape when heeling while sailing. This feature is lost while the
hull is level - scooping water and heavy pounding will slow windward
progress in heavy seas. Additionally the motor propeller does
cavitate during heavy pitching. You should only consider powering
while close quarter maneuvering or in calm conditions. Hull speed
appears to be around 4.4 knots - you won't go faster.
Rigging the boat can go very quickly if you prepare. I used rope
parrels to attach the main to the mast, just make sure to slip them
onto the mast before stepping. Tie on both the gaff and main
halyards and you're mostly ready. My mizzen is laced to its mast,
and so both the sail and spar are stepped together. Plug in the boom
kin and rig both main and mizzen sheets to complete your setup.
Mike's boat WAS ventilated with a drilled PVC pipe installed between
ports cut in the hull sides. The idea being that the perforations
are drilled in the pipe above the water line when the boat is on its
beam ends. I did not like this arrangement and removed the piping.
I the installed clear Beckson screw ports in the cut outs. Now I
have light in the cabin and can remove the covers while anchored for
comfort. Make a small dodger over the main hatch secured by snaps at
the perimeter and supported by bows and you may be able to achieve
standing head room in the cabin.
There is plenty of room in the cabin to accommodate a couple and
their gear while cruising. Yes, you do have to rearrange things to
sleep, like putting the potty in the cockpit for the night.
Amazingly, a full size air mattress fits perfectly on the floor of
the cabin for a very comfortable rest.
Good luck,
cabbie
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>from
> Thanks for the information. It's interesting to read your positive
> comments, particularly about the AS19 capability for coastal
> cruising. How have you found it for beating to windward? How close
> to the wind are you able to sail; any closer when reefed? How does
> she go under power, and what's the fuel consumption like? Apart
> the difficulty you have with mast weight, how quick is it to rig,of
> and launch - and retrieve?
>
> Do you think the garvey bow suggested by PCB would be really much
> an improvement? Maybe it would push down some of that green water?every
> Worth the trouble?
>
> It's very interesting that you're able to sail overcanvassed in 20
> knots without ever a knockdown. How might it go heaved to in 30 to
> 40 knots? How does it heave to in more tolerable wind, say, while
> the crew are below having lunch?
>
> I've had that port profile photo of Mike Stockstill's Orpheo on the
> desktop for a week or two, and will say that the looks do become
> acceptable.http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as19.htm
>
> Oh, another question if you don't mind, how is the cabin and the
> rest of the interior ventilated when the hatch is closed? Ive not
> seen any other openings in the few photos available, nor in the
> cartoons.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@>
> wrote:
> >
> > My AS19 is a wonderfull shorthanded sail boat. I have sailed it
> many
> > times overcanvased in 15-20 knots of wind and have never been
> knocked
> > down. As for sitting "down in the cockpit" that is impossible.
> The
> > cockpit is a long foot well, you sit up high on the deck just
> below
> > the
> > shear. I do have one of those articulating seat cushions from
> West
> > Marine to sit on for back support and that has proven to be very
> > comfortable. When sailing with a crew the cabin bulkhead makes a
> > nice
> > place to rest against.
> >
> > The number one hinderence for a single handed sailor would be
> heavy
> > spars. Make them light especially the mast, mine must weigh
> > bit of 100dodger
> > pounds and can be a bear to lift. You can forget about the
> by
> > the time spray becomes a problem I have green water sweeping down
> the
> > deck. I don't mean this as a knock, but the boat is only 19 feet
> so
> > small craft warnings should be heeded.
> >
> > I am not the builder of my boat so I can't answer too many
> questions
> > about it's construction, but I do love sailing my boat and would
> not
> > hesitate to embark on a coastal cruise with well constructed AS19.
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Are crew sitting on the widward side deck necessary for good
> > sailing
> > > performance?
> > >
> > > That is, for single handing, could the skipper sit lower down,
> > actually
> > > in the cockpit and laid back in a gimballed chair for long
> hours,
> > or,
> > > like Roger Keyes, in a suitably adjusted bean bag? Perhaps a
> > > bimini/spray dodger could also be fitted?
> > >
> > > Any thoughts anyone? Would AS19 heel too much?
> > >
> > > If you're there, Mike, or Patrick, what do you think?
> > >
> > > Graeme
> > >
> >
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "John Kohnen" <jhkohnen@...> wrote:
love sailing my boat and would not hesitate to embark on a coastal
cruise with well constructed AS19."
While a bluewater boat may traverse protected waters with little risk,
the reverse is problematical. I'ts not just wind knock down, but also
being rolled by waves - while not necessarily going out of sight of
land, on just a coastal cruise there are bar crossings, for example,
that can be nasty when otherwise the local weather is fine.
If "compromised" on a bar it would be nice to be in a boat that could
shrug it off and get way on out of the zone.
Graeme
> They're not bluewater boats,Nels and John, that's the key point. As "crabbie-ceasar" wrote "I do
love sailing my boat and would not hesitate to embark on a coastal
cruise with well constructed AS19."
While a bluewater boat may traverse protected waters with little risk,
the reverse is problematical. I'ts not just wind knock down, but also
being rolled by waves - while not necessarily going out of sight of
land, on just a coastal cruise there are bar crossings, for example,
that can be nasty when otherwise the local weather is fine.
If "compromised" on a bar it would be nice to be in a boat that could
shrug it off and get way on out of the zone.
Graeme
I don't know about Jukebox, but the Jewelboxes, Sr. and Jr. can take a
knockdown. They're not bluewater boats, of course, but with the
companionway drop boards in they could take quite a bit of water on the
decks without a disaster.
http://members.fortunecity.com/duckworks/2002/1115/index.htm
I now own Sage, the boat in the article. Rick told me he'd never scooped
water up with the bow well. But he'd never been motoring in the square
waves caused by a brisk wind against the current of the Columbia River and
then met the wake of a big motoryacht on top of that. <g> The bow dipped
into a wave and flung up a bucketful of water. I could see it hanging in
the air for an instant before it blew back right into my face! ;o( But
that was particularly confused seas, and if I'd had the forward drop board
in I probably would only have got some spray in my face. The bow lifted
just fine with its load of water and the boat wasn't slowed down. The bow
is usually quite a ways above water, especially when heeling.
knockdown. They're not bluewater boats, of course, but with the
companionway drop boards in they could take quite a bit of water on the
decks without a disaster.
http://members.fortunecity.com/duckworks/2002/1115/index.htm
I now own Sage, the boat in the article. Rick told me he'd never scooped
water up with the bow well. But he'd never been motoring in the square
waves caused by a brisk wind against the current of the Columbia River and
then met the wake of a big motoryacht on top of that. <g> The bow dipped
into a wave and flung up a bucketful of water. I could see it hanging in
the air for an instant before it blew back right into my face! ;o( But
that was particularly confused seas, and if I'd had the forward drop board
in I probably would only have got some spray in my face. The bow lifted
just fine with its load of water and the boat wasn't slowed down. The bow
is usually quite a ways above water, especially when heeling.
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:58:10 -0700, graeme wrote:
>
> AS19, though mostly a daysailer, can shed dumping, swamping, green
> water and reliably return after rolling a fair way past beam ends,
> whereas, it appears to me, the JUKEBOXEs are meant more as protected
> water cruisers and couldn't take the dumping nor excessive rolling.
> WHALEWATCHER is similar, perhaps the "cabin" could be built
> permanently watertight and it would be more safe for unprotected
> waters, but then there is the type of MARTHA JANE water ballasted
> stability issue that counters confidence.
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
A society that gets rid of all its troublemakers goes downhill.
<Robert A. Heinlein>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
I do know that Michalak, since he is an inland lake sailer and has no
desire to do otherwise, is very conservative in suggesting how
seaworthy his designs - as is Bolger too.
In his building book Jim provides a lot of information on how to
improve floatation and hatch security etc., and many of his designs
have been water tested as to their ability to self-right from 90
degree knock-downs. Built as designed the JB's seem quite secure to
me, with the possible exception of closing up the slot - which he also
addresses in his building book.
Nels
wrote:
>Hmmm - I have to wonder what has lead to these perceived differences?
>
> AS19, though mostly a daysailer, can shed dumping, swamping, green
> water and reliably return after rolling a fair way past beam ends,
> whereas, it appears to me, the JUKEBOXEs are meant more as protected
> water cruisers and couldn't take the dumping nor excessive rolling.
I do know that Michalak, since he is an inland lake sailer and has no
desire to do otherwise, is very conservative in suggesting how
seaworthy his designs - as is Bolger too.
In his building book Jim provides a lot of information on how to
improve floatation and hatch security etc., and many of his designs
have been water tested as to their ability to self-right from 90
degree knock-downs. Built as designed the JB's seem quite secure to
me, with the possible exception of closing up the slot - which he also
addresses in his building book.
Nels
AS19, though mostly a daysailer, can shed dumping, swamping, green
water and reliably return after rolling a fair way past beam ends,
whereas, it appears to me, the JUKEBOXEs are meant more as protected
water cruisers and couldn't take the dumping nor excessive rolling.
WHALEWATCHER is similar, perhaps the "cabin" could be built
permanently watertight and it would be more safe for unprotected
waters, but then there is the type of MARTHA JANE water ballasted
stability issue that counters confidence.
I like the simplicity, and many other features, of the Class IV
OSTAR Racer #543 - not least, the shoestring building budget - the
lack of below deck standing head room doesn't worry me - BUT I wish
it were more beachable.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerCartoons/files/Class%20lV%
20Ostar%20Racer/
The beachable AS29 is nowhere near as offshore capable hence we hear
of AS34 in the pipeline - BUT, there will be foam, steel plates,
complication, and it won't all come together with a shoestring.
So I'd like to see the Class IV OSTAR Racer #543 with some of the
AS19 to it, like better thin water capabilities and perhaps a more
moderate cruising cat yawl sailplan - or the other way around, if
you will, ie a 350% bigger AS19.
No, I'm not about to commission alterations from PB&F, for the
reasons Bruce gave. Maybe after a good go in an AS19 I might
though ;-)
So far as beauty and the AS19 are concerned:
1) it's in the eye of the beholder, of course
2) Bolger has said he is no fanatic and will give the market what it
wants though the market be ignorant of what is lost
3) astern and beam-on the view isn't bad, it's the open mouthed bow
that jars. To my eye garvey bows can look alright, and if concerned
enough to do that then ya could just go the reverse curve to the
upper bow as on Le Cabotin/Anemone #576 - or a bit of both.
4)If boat looks are required to "inspire" a sail then was it a sail
that was wanted after all? Rather it's looks toward the horizon or
finnish line - the knowledge of how far the sailer might go and how
good the trip may be that inspire. A look at the bank balance may be
in order too ;-)
Graeme
water and reliably return after rolling a fair way past beam ends,
whereas, it appears to me, the JUKEBOXEs are meant more as protected
water cruisers and couldn't take the dumping nor excessive rolling.
WHALEWATCHER is similar, perhaps the "cabin" could be built
permanently watertight and it would be more safe for unprotected
waters, but then there is the type of MARTHA JANE water ballasted
stability issue that counters confidence.
I like the simplicity, and many other features, of the Class IV
OSTAR Racer #543 - not least, the shoestring building budget - the
lack of below deck standing head room doesn't worry me - BUT I wish
it were more beachable.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerCartoons/files/Class%20lV%
20Ostar%20Racer/
The beachable AS29 is nowhere near as offshore capable hence we hear
of AS34 in the pipeline - BUT, there will be foam, steel plates,
complication, and it won't all come together with a shoestring.
So I'd like to see the Class IV OSTAR Racer #543 with some of the
AS19 to it, like better thin water capabilities and perhaps a more
moderate cruising cat yawl sailplan - or the other way around, if
you will, ie a 350% bigger AS19.
No, I'm not about to commission alterations from PB&F, for the
reasons Bruce gave. Maybe after a good go in an AS19 I might
though ;-)
So far as beauty and the AS19 are concerned:
1) it's in the eye of the beholder, of course
2) Bolger has said he is no fanatic and will give the market what it
wants though the market be ignorant of what is lost
3) astern and beam-on the view isn't bad, it's the open mouthed bow
that jars. To my eye garvey bows can look alright, and if concerned
enough to do that then ya could just go the reverse curve to the
upper bow as on Le Cabotin/Anemone #576 - or a bit of both.
4)If boat looks are required to "inspire" a sail then was it a sail
that was wanted after all? Rather it's looks toward the horizon or
finnish line - the knowledge of how far the sailer might go and how
good the trip may be that inspire. A look at the bank balance may be
in order too ;-)
Graeme
--- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> --- In bolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@> wrote:
> >
> > If you are thinking of asking them to create plans for a
stretched
> > AS19, you can ask, but be aware that their backlog of delivery of
> > design work is several years long already.
> >
> > Still, building a 'per plans' stock AS-19 seems like an
excellent idea.
> >
> Before ordering or modifying AS19 plans it might be worth
considering
> what Jim Michalak did with the AS19.
>
> http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox2/index.htm
>
> Just imagine having Phil Bolger telling you your boat plan was too
> ugly to sell!
>
> Not that it seems to have bothered Jim a bit as he came up with
even
> another - "Navigator" version - that to me is not very pretty
either.
>
> http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm
>
> Actually I find a lot to like about this boat with it's three
distinct
> areas, stand-up shelter, and stern to bow
> walk-through-and-step-onto-the-beach capability.
>
> So you are an eyesore to the million dollar property lot owners you
> cruise past. That might even add to the enjoyment:-)
>
> Would look great rafted up next to a Super Brick.
>
> Nels
>
Jim Michalak was inspired by AS-10 when he designed his Jewelbox:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/
He writes somewhere that he doesn't think the slight flare (10 deg.) of
Jewelbox's sides compromises the "Sea of Peas" theory.
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jewelbox/
He writes somewhere that he doesn't think the slight flare (10 deg.) of
Jewelbox's sides compromises the "Sea of Peas" theory.
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:47:52 -0700, Bruce H wrote:
> I didn't know that Bolger had plans for a 'stretched AS19'.
> ...
> Still, building a 'per plans' stock AS-19 seems like an excellent idea.
--
John <jkohnen@...>
History is a vast early warning system. <Norman Cousins>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
what Jim Michalak did with the AS19.
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox2/index.htm
Just imagine having Phil Bolger telling you your boat plan was too
ugly to sell!
Not that it seems to have bothered Jim a bit as he came up with even
another - "Navigator" version - that to me is not very pretty either.
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm
Actually I find a lot to like about this boat with it's three distinct
areas, stand-up shelter, and stern to bow
walk-through-and-step-onto-the-beach capability.
So you are an eyesore to the million dollar property lot owners you
cruise past. That might even add to the enjoyment:-)
Would look great rafted up next to a Super Brick.
Nels
>Before ordering or modifying AS19 plans it might be worth considering
> If you are thinking of asking them to create plans for a stretched
> AS19, you can ask, but be aware that their backlog of delivery of
> design work is several years long already.
>
> Still, building a 'per plans' stock AS-19 seems like an excellent idea.
>
what Jim Michalak did with the AS19.
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox2/index.htm
Just imagine having Phil Bolger telling you your boat plan was too
ugly to sell!
Not that it seems to have bothered Jim a bit as he came up with even
another - "Navigator" version - that to me is not very pretty either.
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/jukebox3/index.htm
Actually I find a lot to like about this boat with it's three distinct
areas, stand-up shelter, and stern to bow
walk-through-and-step-onto-the-beach capability.
So you are an eyesore to the million dollar property lot owners you
cruise past. That might even add to the enjoyment:-)
Would look great rafted up next to a Super Brick.
Nels
> I'd have no choice but to purchase the plans for a stretched AS19:I didn't know that Bolger had plans for a 'stretched AS19'.
If you are thinking of asking them to create plans for a stretched
AS19, you can ask, but be aware that their backlog of delivery of
design work is several years long already.
Still, building a 'per plans' stock AS-19 seems like an excellent idea.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
joey from down under hasn't built one of those babies.
Nels
wrote:
>WHALEWATCHER would lose all the above-mentioned. Funny that some crazy
> I'm precipitously close to getting the plans for "forgotten" AS19. I'd
> have no choice but to purchase the plans for a stretched AS19: a less
> involved AS29 (and cheaper), sort of an Ostar Class 4 30-footer with
> leeboards, and enough belly for internal ballast - beachable,
> seaworthy, nearly the useable deck space of an equivalent sized but
> more expensive poly catamaran (and maybe more habitable interior
> volume), perhaps retaining a smaller ballast reduced daggerboard to
> allay any fears of undertaking the hop accross larger ponds.
>
> (Robert Ayliffe (formerly Duckflat Wooden Boats) has just written of
> his return crossing of treacherous Bass Straight in his 23' Bruce
> Kirby designed Norwalk Islands Sharpie, at times seeing 17.5 knots
> surfing in 40-plus knot winds, and mentioned in passing of Chris Nye's
> eventful more open crossing some time ago in a Martha Jane and raised
> the questionable stability of that design. A long "AS19" would rip.)
>
> Graeme
joey from down under hasn't built one of those babies.
Nels
I'm precipitously close to getting the plans for "forgotten" AS19. I'd
have no choice but to purchase the plans for a stretched AS19: a less
involved AS29 (and cheaper), sort of an Ostar Class 4 30-footer with
leeboards, and enough belly for internal ballast - beachable,
seaworthy, nearly the useable deck space of an equivalent sized but
more expensive poly catamaran (and maybe more habitable interior
volume), perhaps retaining a smaller ballast reduced daggerboard to
allay any fears of undertaking the hop accross larger ponds.
(Robert Ayliffe (formerly Duckflat Wooden Boats) has just written of
his return crossing of treacherous Bass Straight in his 23' Bruce
Kirby designed Norwalk Islands Sharpie, at times seeing 17.5 knots
surfing in 40-plus knot winds, and mentioned in passing of Chris Nye's
eventful more open crossing some time ago in a Martha Jane and raised
the questionable stability of that design. A long "AS19" would rip.)
Graeme
have no choice but to purchase the plans for a stretched AS19: a less
involved AS29 (and cheaper), sort of an Ostar Class 4 30-footer with
leeboards, and enough belly for internal ballast - beachable,
seaworthy, nearly the useable deck space of an equivalent sized but
more expensive poly catamaran (and maybe more habitable interior
volume), perhaps retaining a smaller ballast reduced daggerboard to
allay any fears of undertaking the hop accross larger ponds.
(Robert Ayliffe (formerly Duckflat Wooden Boats) has just written of
his return crossing of treacherous Bass Straight in his 23' Bruce
Kirby designed Norwalk Islands Sharpie, at times seeing 17.5 knots
surfing in 40-plus knot winds, and mentioned in passing of Chris Nye's
eventful more open crossing some time ago in a Martha Jane and raised
the questionable stability of that design. A long "AS19" would rip.)
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> The AS19 is kind of a "forgotten" design. The very pure "seas of peas"
> hull - I would think turns off a lot of people - but results in a fast
> boat.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
How do you like the lee boards?
How much and what kind of ballast is used?
OK another one - What is the articulated seat cushion you mention? Any
link to it?
The AS19 is kind of a "forgotten" design. The very pure "seas of peas"
hull - I would think turns off a lot of people - but results in a fast
boat.
Much appreciated,
Nels (Who thinks "chine runners" when thinking of AS19:-)
wrote:
>I have a couple of other questions in addition if you don't mind?
> Thanks for the information. It's interesting to read your positive
> comments, particularly about the AS19 capability for coastal
> cruising. How have you found it for beating to windward? How close
> to the wind are you able to sail; any closer when reefed? How does
> she go under power, and what's the fuel consumption like? Apart from
> the difficulty you have with mast weight, how quick is it to rig,
> and launch - and retrieve?
>
> Do you think the garvey bow suggested by PCB would be really much of
> an improvement? Maybe it would push down some of that green water?
> Worth the trouble?
>
> It's very interesting that you're able to sail overcanvassed in 20
> knots without ever a knockdown. How might it go heaved to in 30 to
> 40 knots? How does it heave to in more tolerable wind, say, while
> the crew are below having lunch?
>
> I've had that port profile photo of Mike Stockstill's Orpheo on the
> desktop for a week or two, and will say that the looks do become
> acceptable.http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as19.htm
>
> Oh, another question if you don't mind, how is the cabin and the
> rest of the interior ventilated when the hatch is closed? Ive not
> seen any other openings in the few photos available, nor in the
> cartoons.
>
> Cheers
> Graeme
How do you like the lee boards?
How much and what kind of ballast is used?
OK another one - What is the articulated seat cushion you mention? Any
link to it?
The AS19 is kind of a "forgotten" design. The very pure "seas of peas"
hull - I would think turns off a lot of people - but results in a fast
boat.
Much appreciated,
Nels (Who thinks "chine runners" when thinking of AS19:-)
Thanks for the information. It's interesting to read your positive
comments, particularly about the AS19 capability for coastal
cruising. How have you found it for beating to windward? How close
to the wind are you able to sail; any closer when reefed? How does
she go under power, and what's the fuel consumption like? Apart from
the difficulty you have with mast weight, how quick is it to rig,
and launch - and retrieve?
Do you think the garvey bow suggested by PCB would be really much of
an improvement? Maybe it would push down some of that green water?
Worth the trouble?
It's very interesting that you're able to sail overcanvassed in 20
knots without ever a knockdown. How might it go heaved to in 30 to
40 knots? How does it heave to in more tolerable wind, say, while
the crew are below having lunch?
I've had that port profile photo of Mike Stockstill's Orpheo on the
desktop for a week or two, and will say that the looks do become
acceptable.http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as19.htm
Oh, another question if you don't mind, how is the cabin and the
rest of the interior ventilated when the hatch is closed? Ive not
seen any other openings in the few photos available, nor in the
cartoons.
Cheers
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@...>
wrote:
comments, particularly about the AS19 capability for coastal
cruising. How have you found it for beating to windward? How close
to the wind are you able to sail; any closer when reefed? How does
she go under power, and what's the fuel consumption like? Apart from
the difficulty you have with mast weight, how quick is it to rig,
and launch - and retrieve?
Do you think the garvey bow suggested by PCB would be really much of
an improvement? Maybe it would push down some of that green water?
Worth the trouble?
It's very interesting that you're able to sail overcanvassed in 20
knots without ever a knockdown. How might it go heaved to in 30 to
40 knots? How does it heave to in more tolerable wind, say, while
the crew are below having lunch?
I've had that port profile photo of Mike Stockstill's Orpheo on the
desktop for a week or two, and will say that the looks do become
acceptable.http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/as19.htm
Oh, another question if you don't mind, how is the cabin and the
rest of the interior ventilated when the hatch is closed? Ive not
seen any other openings in the few photos available, nor in the
cartoons.
Cheers
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "cabbie_caesar" <cabbie_caesar@...>
wrote:
>many
> My AS19 is a wonderfull shorthanded sail boat. I have sailed it
> times overcanvased in 15-20 knots of wind and have never beenknocked
> down. As for sitting "down in the cockpit" that is impossible.The
> cockpit is a long foot well, you sit up high on the deck justbelow
> theWest
> shear. I do have one of those articulating seat cushions from
> Marine to sit on for back support and that has proven to be veryheavy
> comfortable. When sailing with a crew the cabin bulkhead makes a
> nice
> place to rest against.
>
> The number one hinderence for a single handed sailor would be
> spars. Make them light especially the mast, mine must weigh everyby
> bit of 100
> pounds and can be a bear to lift. You can forget about the dodger
> the time spray becomes a problem I have green water sweeping downthe
> deck. I don't mean this as a knock, but the boat is only 19 feetso
> small craft warnings should be heeded.questions
>
> I am not the builder of my boat so I can't answer too many
> about it's construction, but I do love sailing my boat and wouldnot
> hesitate to embark on a coastal cruise with well constructed AS19.hours,
>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Are crew sitting on the widward side deck necessary for good
> sailing
> > performance?
> >
> > That is, for single handing, could the skipper sit lower down,
> actually
> > in the cockpit and laid back in a gimballed chair for long
> or,
> > like Roger Keyes, in a suitably adjusted bean bag? Perhaps a
> > bimini/spray dodger could also be fitted?
> >
> > Any thoughts anyone? Would AS19 heel too much?
> >
> > If you're there, Mike, or Patrick, what do you think?
> >
> > Graeme
> >
>
My AS19 is a wonderfull shorthanded sail boat. I have sailed it many
times overcanvased in 15-20 knots of wind and have never been knocked
down. As for sitting "down in the cockpit" that is impossible. The
cockpit is a long foot well, you sit up high on the deck just below
the
shear. I do have one of those articulating seat cushions from West
Marine to sit on for back support and that has proven to be very
comfortable. When sailing with a crew the cabin bulkhead makes a
nice
place to rest against.
The number one hinderence for a single handed sailor would be heavy
spars. Make them light especially the mast, mine must weigh every
bit of 100
pounds and can be a bear to lift. You can forget about the dodger by
the time spray becomes a problem I have green water sweeping down the
deck. I don't mean this as a knock, but the boat is only 19 feet so
small craft warnings should be heeded.
I am not the builder of my boat so I can't answer too many questions
about it's construction, but I do love sailing my boat and would not
hesitate to embark on a coastal cruise with well constructed AS19.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
times overcanvased in 15-20 knots of wind and have never been knocked
down. As for sitting "down in the cockpit" that is impossible. The
cockpit is a long foot well, you sit up high on the deck just below
the
shear. I do have one of those articulating seat cushions from West
Marine to sit on for back support and that has proven to be very
comfortable. When sailing with a crew the cabin bulkhead makes a
nice
place to rest against.
The number one hinderence for a single handed sailor would be heavy
spars. Make them light especially the mast, mine must weigh every
bit of 100
pounds and can be a bear to lift. You can forget about the dodger by
the time spray becomes a problem I have green water sweeping down the
deck. I don't mean this as a knock, but the boat is only 19 feet so
small craft warnings should be heeded.
I am not the builder of my boat so I can't answer too many questions
about it's construction, but I do love sailing my boat and would not
hesitate to embark on a coastal cruise with well constructed AS19.
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>sailing
> Are crew sitting on the widward side deck necessary for good
> performance?actually
>
> That is, for single handing, could the skipper sit lower down,
> in the cockpit and laid back in a gimballed chair for long hours,or,
> like Roger Keyes, in a suitably adjusted bean bag? Perhaps a
> bimini/spray dodger could also be fitted?
>
> Any thoughts anyone? Would AS19 heel too much?
>
> If you're there, Mike, or Patrick, what do you think?
>
> Graeme
>
I'd bet you're right about the 'knock down', Bruce. I just wonder that
she may really be designed to sail with a number of active crew ballast
too (most of the 900lbs capacity?). Without it I wonder if she may sail
with the lee deck too much awash, especially into head seas. That could
be fun, is likely fastest, but may be tiring after a while. Perhaps
getting the reef points right might allow the attitude to be adjusted
for comfort under whatever conditions and load, while keeping on with
the speed?
Graeme
she may really be designed to sail with a number of active crew ballast
too (most of the 900lbs capacity?). Without it I wonder if she may sail
with the lee deck too much awash, especially into head seas. That could
be fun, is likely fastest, but may be tiring after a while. Perhaps
getting the reef points right might allow the attitude to be adjusted
for comfort under whatever conditions and load, while keeping on with
the speed?
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> I have never sailed an AS-19, but would really love the chance. My
> guess is that she has so much lead ballast that you could easily sail
> single handed, and any 'knock down' would pop back up very quickly.
>
I have never sailed an AS-19, but would really love the chance. My
guess is that she has so much lead ballast that you could easily sail
single handed, and any 'knock down' would pop back up very quickly.
guess is that she has so much lead ballast that you could easily sail
single handed, and any 'knock down' would pop back up very quickly.
Are crew sitting on the widward side deck necessary for good sailing
performance?
That is, for single handing, could the skipper sit lower down, actually
in the cockpit and laid back in a gimballed chair for long hours, or,
like Roger Keyes, in a suitably adjusted bean bag? Perhaps a
bimini/spray dodger could also be fitted?
Any thoughts anyone? Would AS19 heel too much?
If you're there, Mike, or Patrick, what do you think?
Graeme
performance?
That is, for single handing, could the skipper sit lower down, actually
in the cockpit and laid back in a gimballed chair for long hours, or,
like Roger Keyes, in a suitably adjusted bean bag? Perhaps a
bimini/spray dodger could also be fitted?
Any thoughts anyone? Would AS19 heel too much?
If you're there, Mike, or Patrick, what do you think?
Graeme