Re: [bolger] Re: New Instant boats yahoo group

I sort of hate the idea -- I enjoy seeing stuff about Micros and
Tortoises, but I'm not likely to join fifteen groups to cover all types
of Bolger boats. Meanwhile, I suspect there may be others like me who
will still post about instant boats here, so anyone wanting to find
archives about Windsprints would have to look at both groups.

Patrick

nels wrote:

> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Kessler" <jkess777@...> wrote:
>
>> All,
>> The group is for Instantboats only. I hardly see how that splinters
>> or divides. It also links to Dynamite's website and messageboard.
>> I've spoken him personally about this.
>>
>> There will also be new dory plans available.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>
> I think it is a great idea and will support it.
>
> Some of us have even tossed around the idea of forming a Micro group.
> The nice thing it would do is keep all the building information and
> photos in one area. Now it is scattered all over the place and a heck
> of a job trying to find anything.
>
> Nels
>

I have been on many boatbuilding forums in the past. The ones I enjoy
most are the ones where people EXPLORE various methods of
boatbuilding. I enjoy building all epoxy boats. I enjoy building
boats using glue and nails. I enjoy making both hard and simple
boats. I sometimes use cheap plywood that "experts" tell me won't
work. I've used species of lumber that would make an "expert" faint
and swoon. I've used epoxy at times. I've used polyester at times. At
times I haven't used either. I've used glue that has not
been "approved" by the experts. And in the end my boats have
floated, and they have stood the test of time. I'm no expert by any
means. I take pleasure in finding "other ways" of building boats.
Explore and grow. I was poor years ago and if it wasn't for the cheap
carpenters glue, really cheap plywood, garage sale paint and an old
can of nails from my buddies shop(borrowed tools also) my first six
hour canoe would never have been born. This was before anyone in my
town had a computer and none of us new about marine epoxy. I've seen
boats sealed with just about everything. Tar, caulk, shoe polish and
oil paint. My first time on a boatbuilding forum was a shock! If I
had not already built five or six cheap boats for myself and helped
others who wanted one I would have been scared off. Build with care.
Build with love. Build with what you can find in your area. One must
never let cost keep one or one's family from participating in life.
If you can afford the best, by cracky, have at it! But for those who
cannot, let us encourage them to start and explore the wonderful
thing that is boatbuilding. Make it a family affair. Bond with you
kids. Life is just to short.... Wheres my saw??......... Dusty Mick

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, dave seeton <daveseeton@...> wrote

> Well said.
> Dave
>
> David <d.cassidy@...> wrote: Have

John and Jim been blocked/banned from this group; one for starting
the instant Boats yahoo group, and the other for supporting the
idea? This is what they are claiming. Is it true?

>
> Would a moderator please confirm/deny/clarify this?
>
> I am amused and dismayed that this new group has caused such a

string of posts and the possible banning of two members. Is this THAT
important? Even if you disagree with starting another group about a
sub-species of Bolger boats, SO WHAT? Don't join the new group.

> Do you have that much free time in your life to get worked up over

a yahoo group?

>
> This group CAN be intimidating to someone just trying to learn

about and put together a little instant boat. There is always someone
in this group ready to pounce on a new comer because they are not
doing it the way that person would.

> There is a group of folks here who cannot help themselves and

will always chime in with their opinion that unless you use the
highest priced, professional-grade products, you might as well not do
it at all. From marine ply to expensive, two part paints, there are
several -- well -- boatbuilding snobs on this board. That's fine --
they're entitled to their opinions like everyone else (and they
probably make beautiful boats)-- but they simply can't control
themselves when a first-time builder comes on here and timidly says
they can't afford $75 for a sheet of plywood and is it OK if they buy
the $12 sheet of luan to build their Elegant Punt, or will their boat
rot out from under them if they paint it with exterior latex.

>
> Thank goodness, there are many other people here -- some of them

producing pro-quality boats using the finest materials -- who are
willing to help these new comers without trying to put them through
some kind of "test" to see if they are "worthy" of building a Surf.

>
> I think it's great that there is now a yahoo group where these

people can now go and get the help and encouragement they are looking
for to do something they've probably dreamed about for years --
actually build a real boat -- without being told all of the reasons
why they CAN'T do it.

> Dynamite Payson's attitude is build it with what you can get

and what you can afford, but BUILD IT! Having a boat that falls apart
in 10 years because you used luan instead of okume is better than not
having a boat for those 10 years. That is an attitude that many here
don't subscribe to, and they simply can't stop themselves from
polluting newcomers with their elitist building attitudes.

>
> What is shameful is that many times, newbies don't get that help

and encouragement right here -- or when they do get it, it is mingled
with an equal amount of criticism or advice designed to stop them
from building that boat.

>
> If this post gets me banned, then I guess I'm not "good enough" to

belong here, too.

>
> David C
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos

new Car Finder tool.

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Gene,

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Gene T <goldranger02-boats@...> wrote:
> Now, has anybody mated the Long Micro and the Micro Navigator
> Modification. Would the Nav Mod plans help with devising a pilot
> house for the Long Micro. My head is spinning, Fast Motor Sailer,
> SeaBird86, Long Micro with a house, Micro Navigator, SuperBrick...

They may well mate, but as I don't have either plan I couldn't be
sure about the ease of that. PCB&F have said that they haven't
upgraded the LM to a Nav or whatever, as they've not had sufficient
demand. Now they have a big backlog of commissioned design work. A
high percentage of the LMs that are built seem to have owner/builder
modifications, some to a high degree, but, alas, no LMNav as yet
AFAIK.

Head spinning? I hope that's in a "not drowning, waving" kinda way ;-
)

How do you intend on using the boat?

> How many Micro/Long Micro sailors use their boats with the cockpit
> hatch shut. Seems to me it wouldn't be very comfy and if the
> weather were turning bad it would be required, or even if you were
> just honking along it would be much safer shut.

Yes that's for sure. Take note of what Rob said above in Message
#54923: "Finally, I want to mention how important it is to add the
specified flotation. With a lead keel, plus a motor, plus ground
tackle and other cargo, an un-flotationed Micro will sink like a
stone if swamped. Add those cubic feet of foam fore and aft, and
close them in thoroughly, unless you want to see your craft go down
fast if holed by a jet-ski, toppled by a gust, or swamped by choppy
waters." Good point. The majority of Micros don't get their
flotation - I've gotta plead guilty here too on behalf of mine.

> I also have this desire for shade in my old age. I can't see
> sitting out in the sun for long periods. A nice roomy pilot house
> with a place to stick my legs sounds much better than the
> alternative I see.

Me too! I'm thinking biminis, even beach umbrellas - at the least.
More likely a dog house: something like Roger keyes Micro "Paloma
Blanca". I think you could sketch out something like that, send it
to PCB&F and obtain their opinion. AFAIK that's what Roger did - had
approval. He also commissioned the NAV upgrade. Im also thinking of
adapting the helmstation from Michael's AS29 "Walkure" - there are
lots more pics of that elsewhere than here
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger/photos/view/f196?b=23
That's kind of like the helm protection on Le Cabotin/Anemone (AS39)

Graeme

Not to cool to boot somebody for their actions outside the group. All the groups I am in come to the same email and I don't really distinguish between them. One big family. This helps people weed out big boat /small boat talk or instant / complicated boat talk. Here on bolger threads can drone on and I sometimes find them not interesting. Hard to believe but yess, that is true. Plus as on most of the groups there seems to be a reluctance to have more than one thread going at a time. Then there is the poor labeling of the threads, we all suffer from and participate in that. Overall a very positive move. Bolger group will only loose those it throws out I think.

Now, has anybody mated the Long Micro and the Micro Navigator Modification. Would the Nav Mod plans help with devising a pilot house for the Long Micro. My head is spinning, Fast Motor Sailer, SeaBird86, Long Micro with a house, Micro Navigator, SuperBrick... How many Micro/Long Micro sailors use their boats with the cockpit hatch shut. Seems to me it wouldn't be very comfy and if the weather were turning bad it would be required, or even if you were just honking along it would be much safer shut. I also have this desire for shade in my old age. I can't see sitting out in the sun for long periods. A nice roomy pilot house with a place to stick my legs sounds much better than the alternative I see.

Also, Would the Micro Navigator plans help with converting the Long Micro to the Junk style rig? Is that a good trade? I'm liking the Idea of easy reefing. Does it really work that way? Could one hang oneselves with all the lines?

Sincerely,
"A house ashore is but a boat, so poorly
built it will not float ---- "

----- Original Message ----
From: nels <arvent@...>
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 12:03:34 PM
Subject: [bolger] Re: New Instant boats yahoo group

--- In bolger@yahoogroups. com, dave seeton <daveseeton@ ...> wrote:

>

> Please post the link again?

> Dave

>

Hi Dave,

Apparently the message announcing the link to the new group has been

deleted and the founder has been banned as well.

I got the following e-mail from him.

Nels,

Thanks for your support of the Instantboat group.

I want you to know that the Instantboat group has the approval of

Dynamite. Before I made the group I discussed it with him. As a

matter of fact, I spoke with him yesterday and he was very pleased to

hear we have the group set up. (At 79 he is still going strong and

was in the shop with his son building a lobster boat). I will speak

with him again today.

I am not real sure but I think someone has deleted my membership at

the Bolger group. I haven't been able to post there. I reapplied

and it is pending. I am always amazed when people react from fear

rather than understanding positive possibilities. Combining both

groups through links only strengthens. It was surprising to find but

many on the Payson message board didn't realize the Bolger group

existed until I told them.

The reaction received at the Bolger group caused realization that

some do not understand that boat builders have the determination of

passion to be involved in multiple boating groups and sites.

Again thank you for your reasoned approach.

Jim

p.s. You may reproduce this e-mail.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello all,
I think I'm back not sure? I was able to post pics of the light
schooner which is close to completion. But earlier non of my posts
made it to the board.

Jim

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:

>
> > Apparently the message announcing the link to the new group has

been

> deleted and the founder has been banned as well...
>
> > Since I will likely be the next to go, I would like to say it's

been

> great being here! Nels....
>
> > Nels I remember some of the flack I got for talking about Hot

Chilli

> and I'm thinking of pulling the plug on it as well.
>
> Whoa! Hold on. Stay a mo'. Don't go, nobody else has just now. I

just

> checked. Nels is still on the roll, so too is Jim. Nobody has been
> kicked as I see it. I don't know what about the top post of this
> thread, but the link concerned appears at least 10 other times

further

> down (- and a gazillion times throughout Yahoo groups space). This

is a

> great group, and not least due to the moderator - though everyone's

> pleasant, polite, interesting and helpful, I wonder if the mod may

not

> be able to sleep for weeks, nay, months, at a time.
>
> Graeme
>

Well said.
Dave

David <d.cassidy@...> wrote: Have John and Jim been blocked/banned from this group; one for starting the instant Boats yahoo group, and the other for supporting the idea? This is what they are claiming. Is it true?

Would a moderator please confirm/deny/clarify this?

I am amused and dismayed that this new group has caused such a string of posts and the possible banning of two members. Is this THAT important? Even if you disagree with starting another group about a sub-species of Bolger boats, SO WHAT? Don't join the new group.
Do you have that much free time in your life to get worked up over a yahoo group?

This group CAN be intimidating to someone just trying to learn about and put together a little instant boat. There is always someone in this group ready to pounce on a new comer because they are not doing it the way that person would.
There is a group of folks here who cannot help themselves and will always chime in with their opinion that unless you use the highest priced, professional-grade products, you might as well not do it at all. From marine ply to expensive, two part paints, there are several -- well -- boatbuilding snobs on this board. That's fine -- they're entitled to their opinions like everyone else (and they probably make beautiful boats)-- but they simply can't control themselves when a first-time builder comes on here and timidly says they can't afford $75 for a sheet of plywood and is it OK if they buy the $12 sheet of luan to build their Elegant Punt, or will their boat rot out from under them if they paint it with exterior latex.

Thank goodness, there are many other people here -- some of them producing pro-quality boats using the finest materials -- who are willing to help these new comers without trying to put them through some kind of "test" to see if they are "worthy" of building a Surf.

I think it's great that there is now a yahoo group where these people can now go and get the help and encouragement they are looking for to do something they've probably dreamed about for years -- actually build a real boat -- without being told all of the reasons why they CAN'T do it.
Dynamite Payson's attitude is build it with what you can get and what you can afford, but BUILD IT! Having a boat that falls apart in 10 years because you used luan instead of okume is better than not having a boat for those 10 years. That is an attitude that many here don't subscribe to, and they simply can't stop themselves from polluting newcomers with their elitist building attitudes.

What is shameful is that many times, newbies don't get that help and encouragement right here -- or when they do get it, it is mingled with an equal amount of criticism or advice designed to stop them from building that boat.

If this post gets me banned, then I guess I'm not "good enough" to belong here, too.

David C

---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello all,

Above ^ "This is a spam-free, on topic group - pretty much anything
boating, design, or building related is fair game"

I'm not the judge of what the above statement means only the mods
here can make that call.

The day I posted about the new group I called Dynamite and told him
the Instant boat group has s link to the Bolger group. He was very
happy about that. The rest of the conversation about how some reacted
will stay between him and myself.

There is a link in the links section of the Instant Boats group to
this group. Dynamite would have it no other way.

I want to thank whoever allowed me back on this forum. The Instant
Boat forum will direct anyone seeking information on any Bolger
design other than an Instant boat to this group.

again thank you for the reinstatement.

I fully agree with Bruce...In the end, no harm, no foul. This still
is a great group.

Jim

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm just interested in finding out if these guys were banned,
>
> Yes, looking at the 'members', it appears true, but only briefly. I
> see that Jim, aka 'jkess777' was added back as a member yesterday,
> And nels, aka 'arvent@" still has the prairiedog2332 username I
> believe, did he have more than one username?
>
> > and if the reason was because they started the Instant Boats
yahoo group
>
> Broadcasting messages to the group that say 'please check out this
new
> group which I have started' is technically considered spamming.
But
> this is a somewhat gray area, because I would hope that an exception
> for spamming of things associated with Bolger should be allowed,
but I
> don't make the rules. Certainly this rule is capricious, because a
> message saying, 'please check out this webpage I created of photos
of
> my Bolger boat' is also technically spamming.
>
> In the end, no harm, no foul. This still is a great group.
>

What...why you... I never...well...in fact...I resemble that remark! That would explain the large
metal key poking from my back and my longing to roll in potatoes and onions.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> Certainly this rule is capricious, because a
> message saying, 'please check out this webpage I created of photos of
> my Bolger boat' is also technically spamming.

> I'm just interested in finding out if these guys were banned,

Yes, looking at the 'members', it appears true, but only briefly. I
see that Jim, aka 'jkess777' was added back as a member yesterday,
And nels, aka 'arvent@..." still has the prairiedog2332 username I
believe, did he have more than one username?

> and if the reason was because they started the Instant Boats yahoo group

Broadcasting messages to the group that say 'please check out this new
group which I have started' is technically considered spamming. But
this is a somewhat gray area, because I would hope that an exception
for spamming of things associated with Bolger should be allowed, but I
don't make the rules. Certainly this rule is capricious, because a
message saying, 'please check out this webpage I created of photos of
my Bolger boat' is also technically spamming.

In the end, no harm, no foul. This still is a great group.

I have nothing but gratitude for anyone willing to give of their time to moderate a group like this, and that includes Gregg and this group.

I'm just interested in finding out if these guys were banned, and if the reason was because they started the Instant Boats yahoo group (there's usually another side to every story, and I'm willing to accept that there might have been something else going on behind the scenes here than just the annoucement of a new group).

If the policy of this group is that starting or mentioning another group devoted to Bolger-designed boat(s) will get you banned, I think we should know that. Then, people can do what they like with the information.

DC

---- Bruce Hallman <bruce@...> wrote:

> On 7/31/07, David <d.cassidy@...> wrote:
> >
> > Have John and Jim been blocked/banned from this group; one for starting the instant Boats yahoo group, and the other for supporting the idea? This is what they are claiming. Is it true?
>
> Checking the list of current members, I am guessing that it is true.
>
> I suggest we give moderator Gregg some slack here. Moderating is a
> thankless job, and I (for one) appreciate all that he does to keep the
> focus of the discussion threads here 'on topic'. I notice and
> appreciate that this discussion group is not nearly as anarchistic as
> most. I think this latest incident was not pretty, or even right,
> but I don't expect anyone to be always perfect. Gregg does a really
> good job, and that is good enough for me.
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Dennis -

I'm glad you have felt welcome and have had a positive experience. If you go searching through the archives, you will find plenty of times when people were essentially told "if you can't build it right, why build it at all" when they ask about using lumber yard materials, house paint, etc.

I'm not talking about people who are helpfully explaining all of the options. I'm talking about people who cop an attitude with those of us who use $20 a sheet plywood instead of $75 a sheet plywood.

I left this group several years ago and have only recently started monitoring it again for this very reason. Not because I was intimidated (I'm a big boy with a big ego - I don't care one wit about someone's opinion of my building methods or materials), but because I got sick of reading posts from people who couldn't find it in themselves to say "go ahead -- use the luan -- If you can't afford the pro stuff yet, no matter. You'll still have a safe boat you'll get years of pleasure from."

I've seen similar posts since I returned, too.

Building that first boat -- a luan Elegant Punt, painted with latex house paint (that still looks like the day I painted it on 8 years ago) -- was a great experience for me. I was so darned proud and pleased with myself for having built that little boat. I would hate to think that someone was kept from having that experience because they thought they needed $800 worth of marine ply. mahogany and interlux paint. If a group devoted to simple Bolger boats is the avenue for someone to have that experience, I'm all for it.

DC

"---- lancasterdennis <dlancast@...> wrote:

> -
> David,
>
> You bring up some interesting points, however, I beg to disagree with
> you concerning this forum. I am one of those "newbies", I have been
> on this forum since last winter and I have never found the errogance
> that you suggest. I have actually found great support and just simply
> lurking, I have gleaned many good ideas for my current project.
> Hey, I am one of those that has personally "chosen", way before
> joining this group, to use nothing but the very best of materials. I
> have never forced that on anybody, I have explained that my choice
> was to perhaps enhance the lifespan of a project that is taking
> considerable efforts on my part. Its true, you can use whatever you
> want, go cheap or go expensive, your choice. Nothing wrong with
> pointing out the merits of each. There is not a wrong way of doing
> things, but there might be an easier, better way... you choose to use
> it or not, but don't take offense if its offered..
>
> I have been on forums for many, many years, what I have found is that
> we are all just a group of "individuals" in a room, exchanging ideas
> and personal experiences and offering encouragement. After-all,
> isn't that what its all about?
>
> It reminds me of the other weekend, while I was out in my boat shop
> (garage), a passerby came to an abrupt stop, hopped out his car and
> came running up to me. He was like a kid in a candy store, a fellow
> boat builder, who appreciates what I am doing, what we all are
> doing. A total stranger on a special common ground. So refreshing
> in this polarized, don't talk to me society that seems to be around
> us.
>
> There is nothing wrong with this group.... build on!
>
> Regards,
>
> Dennis Lancaster
> Bellingham, WA
>
>
>
>
> -- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David <d.cassidy@...> wrote:
> >
> > Have John and Jim been blocked/banned from this group; one for
> starting the instant Boats yahoo group, and the other for supporting
> the idea? This is what they are claiming. Is it true?
> >
> > Would a moderator please confirm/deny/clarify this?
> >
> > I am amused and dismayed that this new group has caused such a
> string of posts and the possible banning of two members. Is this THAT
> important? Even if you disagree with starting another group about a
> sub-species of Bolger boats, SO WHAT? Don't join the new group.
> > Do you have that much free time in your life to get worked up over
> a yahoo group?
> >
> > This group CAN be intimidating to someone just trying to learn
> about and put together a little instant boat. There is always someone
> in this group ready to pounce on a new comer because they are not
> doing it the way that person would.
> > There is a group of folks here who cannot help themselves and
> will always chime in with their opinion that unless you use the
> highest priced, professional-grade products, you might as well not do
> it at all. From marine ply to expensive, two part paints, there are
> several -- well -- boatbuilding snobs on this board. That's fine --
> they're entitled to their opinions like everyone else (and they
> probably make beautiful boats)-- but they simply can't control
> themselves when a first-time builder comes on here and timidly says
> they can't afford $75 for a sheet of plywood and is it OK if they buy
> the $12 sheet of luan to build their Elegant Punt, or will their boat
> rot out from under them if they paint it with exterior latex.
> >
> > Thank goodness, there are many other people here -- some of them
> producing pro-quality boats using the finest materials -- who are
> willing to help these new comers without trying to put them through
> some kind of "test" to see if they are "worthy" of building a Surf.
> >
> > I think it's great that there is now a yahoo group where these
> people can now go and get the help and encouragement they are looking
> for to do something they've probably dreamed about for years --
> actually build a real boat -- without being told all of the reasons
> why they CAN'T do it.
> > Dynamite Payson's attitude is build it with what you can get
> and what you can afford, but BUILD IT! Having a boat that falls apart
> in 10 years because you used luan instead of okume is better than not
> having a boat for those 10 years. That is an attitude that many here
> don't subscribe to, and they simply can't stop themselves from
> polluting newcomers with their elitist building attitudes.
> >
> > What is shameful is that many times, newbies don't get that help
> and encouragement right here -- or when they do get it, it is mingled
> with an equal amount of criticism or advice designed to stop them
> from building that boat.
> >
> > If this post gets me banned, then I guess I'm not "good enough" to
> belong here, too.
> >
> > David C
> >
>
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

On 7/31/07, David <d.cassidy@...> wrote:

>
> Have John and Jim been blocked/banned from this group; one for starting the instant Boats yahoo group, and the other for supporting the idea? This is what they are claiming. Is it true?

Checking the list of current members, I am guessing that it is true.

I suggest we give moderator Gregg some slack here. Moderating is a
thankless job, and I (for one) appreciate all that he does to keep the
focus of the discussion threads here 'on topic'. I notice and
appreciate that this discussion group is not nearly as anarchistic as
most. I think this latest incident was not pretty, or even right,
but I don't expect anyone to be always perfect. Gregg does a really
good job, and that is good enough for me.

-
David,

You bring up some interesting points, however, I beg to disagree with
you concerning this forum. I am one of those "newbies", I have been
on this forum since last winter and I have never found the errogance
that you suggest. I have actually found great support and just simply
lurking, I have gleaned many good ideas for my current project.
Hey, I am one of those that has personally "chosen", way before
joining this group, to use nothing but the very best of materials. I
have never forced that on anybody, I have explained that my choice
was to perhaps enhance the lifespan of a project that is taking
considerable efforts on my part. Its true, you can use whatever you
want, go cheap or go expensive, your choice. Nothing wrong with
pointing out the merits of each. There is not a wrong way of doing
things, but there might be an easier, better way... you choose to use
it or not, but don't take offense if its offered..

I have been on forums for many, many years, what I have found is that
we are all just a group of "individuals" in a room, exchanging ideas
and personal experiences and offering encouragement. After-all,
isn't that what its all about?

It reminds me of the other weekend, while I was out in my boat shop
(garage), a passerby came to an abrupt stop, hopped out his car and
came running up to me. He was like a kid in a candy store, a fellow
boat builder, who appreciates what I am doing, what we all are
doing. A total stranger on a special common ground. So refreshing
in this polarized, don't talk to me society that seems to be around
us.

There is nothing wrong with this group.... build on!

Regards,

Dennis Lancaster
Bellingham, WA

-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, David <d.cassidy@...> wrote:

>
> Have John and Jim been blocked/banned from this group; one for

starting the instant Boats yahoo group, and the other for supporting
the idea? This is what they are claiming. Is it true?

>
> Would a moderator please confirm/deny/clarify this?
>
> I am amused and dismayed that this new group has caused such a

> Do you have that much free time in your life to get worked up over

a yahoo group?

>
> This group CAN be intimidating to someone just trying to learn

about and put together a little instant boat. There is always someone
in this group ready to pounce on a new comer because they are not
doing it the way that person would.

> There is a group of folks here who cannot help themselves and

>
> Thank goodness, there are many other people here -- some of them

>
> I think it's great that there is now a yahoo group where these

> Dynamite Payson's attitude is build it with what you can get

>
> What is shameful is that many times, newbies don't get that help

and encouragement right here -- or when they do get it, it is mingled
with an equal amount of criticism or advice designed to stop them
from building that boat.

>
> If this post gets me banned, then I guess I'm not "good enough" to

belong here, too.

>
> David C
>

Have John and Jim been blocked/banned from this group; one for starting the instant Boats yahoo group, and the other for supporting the idea? This is what they are claiming. Is it true?

Would a moderator please confirm/deny/clarify this?

I am amused and dismayed that this new group has caused such a string of posts and the possible banning of two members. Is this THAT important? Even if you disagree with starting another group about a sub-species of Bolger boats, SO WHAT? Don't join the new group.
Do you have that much free time in your life to get worked up over a yahoo group?

This group CAN be intimidating to someone just trying to learn about and put together a little instant boat. There is always someone in this group ready to pounce on a new comer because they are not doing it the way that person would.
There is a group of folks here who cannot help themselves and will always chime in with their opinion that unless you use the highest priced, professional-grade products, you might as well not do it at all. From marine ply to expensive, two part paints, there are several -- well -- boatbuilding snobs on this board. That's fine -- they're entitled to their opinions like everyone else (and they probably make beautiful boats)-- but they simply can't control themselves when a first-time builder comes on here and timidly says they can't afford $75 for a sheet of plywood and is it OK if they buy the $12 sheet of luan to build their Elegant Punt, or will their boat rot out from under them if they paint it with exterior latex.

Thank goodness, there are many other people here -- some of them producing pro-quality boats using the finest materials -- who are willing to help these new comers without trying to put them through some kind of "test" to see if they are "worthy" of building a Surf.

I think it's great that there is now a yahoo group where these people can now go and get the help and encouragement they are looking for to do something they've probably dreamed about for years -- actually build a real boat -- without being told all of the reasons why they CAN'T do it.
Dynamite Payson's attitude is build it with what you can get and what you can afford, but BUILD IT! Having a boat that falls apart in 10 years because you used luan instead of okume is better than not having a boat for those 10 years. That is an attitude that many here don't subscribe to, and they simply can't stop themselves from polluting newcomers with their elitist building attitudes.

What is shameful is that many times, newbies don't get that help and encouragement right here -- or when they do get it, it is mingled with an equal amount of criticism or advice designed to stop them from building that boat.

If this post gets me banned, then I guess I'm not "good enough" to belong here, too.

David C

my group list:
Boatbuildingmethods, Bolger, bolger2, bolger3, bolger4,
bolger4photos, bolger4sale, bolger5, bolger6, bolger7, bolger8,
bolger_coffee_lounge, bolger_study_plans_only, bolgercartoons,
classicmultihullsailboats, cyber-boats, dwforum, ferroboats,
florida_shantyboats, free_boat_plans, free_boat_plans_II,
free_boat_plans_iii, free_boat_plans_iv, free_boat_plans_v,
homemadehouseboats, instantboats, jarcatjarboree, jarcats, k-
designs, kssboat, littlehouses (not boats but related small living
spaces), lowcostvoyaging, microcruisers, microcruising,
microcruisingpics, microtrawler, multihull_builder,
multihull_gallery, multihullboatbuilder2, multihulls, Origamiboats,
origamiboats2, paradoxboatbuilders, sailingsmallcruisingmultihulls,
smallsailboats, smallsailboats2, themultimarineforum, trimaranboat,
tysonsbolgerboats, WalkureVoyages

that's 50 - I added two of yours that I didn't have already. Sadly,
many of these are not active. dwforum, k_designs and jarcat are the
only ones that are close to as active as bolger

Paul H.

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:

>
>
> > and now also a fourteenth:
>
> 17 - Sorry I forgot Bruce in Tassie's. The files, the files
>http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tysonsbolgerboats/
>

> and now also a fourteenth:

17 - Sorry I forgot Bruce in Tassie's. The files, the files
http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tysonsbolgerboats/

> Apparently the message announcing the link to the new group has been

deleted and the founder has been banned as well...

> Since I will likely be the next to go, I would like to say it's been

great being here! Nels....

> Nels I remember some of the flack I got for talking about Hot Chilli

and I'm thinking of pulling the plug on it as well.

Whoa! Hold on. Stay a mo'. Don't go, nobody else has just now. I just
checked. Nels is still on the roll, so too is Jim. Nobody has been
kicked as I see it. I don't know what about the top post of this
thread, but the link concerned appears at least 10 other times further
down (- and a gazillion times throughout Yahoo groups space). This is a
great group, and not least due to the moderator - though everyone's so
pleasant, polite, interesting and helpful, I wonder if the mod may not
be able to sleep for weeks, nay, months, at a time.

Graeme

Nels I remember some of the flack I got for talking
about Hot Chilli and I'm thinking of pulling the plug
on it as well. No one group can cover every thing for
every body.

No one of us is as smart as all of use put together.

Nels if you don't post for a few days we will know you
are gone too.

Blessings Kristine

--- nels <arvent@...> wrote:

> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "nels" <arvent@...>
> wrote:
>
> > Apparently the message announcing the link to the
> new group has been
> > deleted and the founder has been banned as well.
> >
> Since I will likely be the next to go, I would like
> to say it's been
> great being here!
>
> Nels
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC

There are: Instant Boats designs, Non-Instant Instant-Boat Instant
Boats designs, designs done for Instant Boats but not done by
Instant Boats, Instant Boat designs not of Instant Boats, Instant
Boats designs redone. Respectively, for example: Elegant Punt,
Thomaston Galley, Storm Petrel, Sparkler, and Birdwatcher. Instant
confusion - it takes a while to get the head around the Bolger
phenomenon. In eternity there are lots of instants and each one may
seem an eternity but while eternity encompasses all instants yet is
instant free it's an instance of relative issue.

All things from eternity are of like forms and come round in a
circle. [Marcus Aurelius Antonius]

PCB began toying with design for flat-pack "instant" construction wa
y y y y y back, maybe even before the fifties, and that has
developed into lots of kinds of related fun.

The hands of the clock have stayed still at half past eleven for
fifty years.
It is always opening time in the Sailors Arms [Dylan Thomas, Under
Milk Wood}

Graeme

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Mistress Vanessa <mstrxvanessa@...>
wrote:

>
> My zwei pfennig:
>
> I've now built exactly one boat: a Bolger Cartopper, using

Payson's plans. Personally, I'm finding this old, well-established
group a little overwhelming (information overload) and really
welcome a smaller, quieter format while I educate myself up to speed
here.

>
> Kathleen

15 - don't forget the (heavily spammed) quiescent Oldshoe group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerOldshoe/?yguid=140880010There's
at least one other Oldshoe group somewhere that required moderated
(absent probably) joining, unless Yahoo has actually deleted it as
they say they will do to any inactive groups after a time.

New "bolger" stuff continually pops up on lots of other yahoo groups
too. Mostly in passing, but sometimes there are nuggets off the main
seam: like, for example, Doug's Wolftrap. But I've had personal
offline emails from non-posting members and non-members that read
this group about Bolger designs they've got or commissioned that
I've not heard of elsewhere (anyone heard of "Tasmania"), so I guess
I'd like there to be just one group, but then people join other
boating groups due to other than "bolger" personal interests they
have at the time, and then inadvertently reveal their "bolger"
knowledge in relation to another topic altogether.

This one didn't take offhttp://groups.google.com.au/group/Bolger?
hl=en

nor thishttp://groups.google.com.au/group/Bolger_Study_plans?hl=en
apparently. Just the same it's funny how they're not spammed there
though.

I'm not a member there, nor at this older group here either
http://groups.google.com.au/group/rec.boats.building/about?hl=enI
may have to be though as I see there's 2410 results for "bolger" to
mine. A significant percentage of the total 34658 posts there.

"bolger-mania" - a wonderful obsession I think (Is it in the DSMIV
yet? No, never, it doesn't debilitate, it enhances). And the subject
expands at an accelerating rate faster than ordinary boat nuts can
keep up - Hooray!! Lucky the universe is also, or "bolger" might
just co-opt every bit of infospace there is ;-) This cannot be
ascribed to a "dark energy" though; rather, it's brilliant.

However that may be, similarly all matters are in the end evaporated
as energy, and so, out beyond time and space, return to this
singularity - this main "Bolger" group.

Graeme

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> > My other favorite 'active' Yahoo boat groups are:
>
> I forgot 'hensnest' and 'lowcostvoyaging' too.
>

Posted by: "nels"arvent@...prairiedog2332:

> There has been a group for Microtrawler going since 2000 and I haven't
> heard any complaints about that site.

... or anything much else, with an average of less than one
post per week over the last year.

Bruce Fountain
Systems Engineer
Union Switch & Signal
Perth, Western Australia

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "GarthAB" <garth@...> wrote:

>
> I've gotta go check out some of these that I've missed up to now.
>

I've gotta go check out some of these that I've missed up to now.

One I like, which has low-to-medium activity, is Shallow Water
Sailors. Fairly Dovekie-intensive (Bolger content!), but plenty of
other shallow water craft, and that incomparable shallow-water philosophy.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shallowwatersailors

Garth

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> > My other favorite 'active' Yahoo boat groups are:
>
> I forgot 'hensnest' and 'lowcostvoyaging' too.
>

> My other favorite 'active' Yahoo boat groups are:

I forgot 'hensnest' and 'lowcostvoyaging' too.

On 7/30/07, Paul <p_hardy@...> wrote:

>
> Only 14? Bruce, where is your committment. I just checked "my
> groups" and it shows 48, though to be honest many of these show
> little or no activity.
>
> Paul H

I am a slacker, I admit.

My other favorite 'active' Yahoo boat groups are: Michalak,
boatdesign, dwforum, smallsailboats, BackyardBoatbuilding2, WWP,
openboats, origamiboats, junkrig, that it not to suggest I can keep
track of them all!

_____

--- In bolger@yahoogroups. <mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Bruce
Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:

>
> I belong to these thirteen groups,
>
> > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger_Rants/>

yahoo.com/group/Bolger_Rants/

>

Bruce:

Is the Rants for real? I can find nothing in there on guns, epoxy or Phil.
I would be interested in knowing his opinion on firearms and large weapons.
I know he was involved in artillery in the army.

Caloosarat

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Only 14? Bruce, where is your committment. I just checked "my
groups" and it shows 48, though to be honest many of these show
little or no activity.

Paul H

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> > I do not understand why there has to be so many forums for group
> > discussion on essentially the very same topic. ... but why
> > splinter the thing up?
>
> Well, good question. I belong to these thirteen groups,
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger4/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger5/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger6/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger4Sale/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerCartoons/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger_Coffee_Lounge/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4photos/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger_Rants/
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/
>
> and now also a fourteenth:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/
>
> Thirteen being an unlucky number, a new Yahoo Group dedicated to
> Instant Boats enthusiasts is an improvement, I think, over having
to
> pay attention to the old Instant Boats bulletin board style message
> board over at:
>
>http://instantboats.com/phpBB2/
>
> That message board has existed for years, splintered independent
of us
> here, with not much harm. So obviously there is room for a
community
> of Instant Boats enthusiasts who are distinct from us.
>
> I strongly advise setting up your email software to filter and
group
> your messages. I do this in such a way that all messages from the
> existing ten (now eleven) Bolger groups all end up seamlessly in
the
> same folder. I experience no trouble following all the splinter
> groups in one place this way. (Another side benefit when your
> settings provide for delivery of emails individually, any messages
> deleted by the moderator (or by Yahoo) from the group website,
still
> exist in you inbox.)
>

> I do not understand why there has to be so many forums for group
> discussion on essentially the very same topic. ... but why
> splinter the thing up?

Well, good question. I belong to these thirteen groups,

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger2/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger3/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger4/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger5/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger6/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger7/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger4Sale/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BolgerCartoons/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger_Coffee_Lounge/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger4photos/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bolger_Rants/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger_study_plans_only/

and now also a fourteenth:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/

Thirteen being an unlucky number, a new Yahoo Group dedicated to
Instant Boats enthusiasts is an improvement, I think, over having to
pay attention to the old Instant Boats bulletin board style message
board over at:

http://instantboats.com/phpBB2/

That message board has existed for years, splintered independent of us
here, with not much harm. So obviously there is room for a community
of Instant Boats enthusiasts who are distinct from us.

I strongly advise setting up your email software to filter and group
your messages. I do this in such a way that all messages from the
existing ten (now eleven) Bolger groups all end up seamlessly in the
same folder. I experience no trouble following all the splinter
groups in one place this way. (Another side benefit when your
settings provide for delivery of emails individually, any messages
deleted by the moderator (or by Yahoo) from the group website, still
exist in you inbox.)

My zwei pfennig:

I've now built exactly one boat: a Bolger Cartopper, using Payson's plans. Personally, I'm finding this old, well-established group a little overwhelming (information overload) and really welcome a smaller, quieter format while I educate myself up to speed here.

Kathleen

lancasterdennis <dlancast@...> wrote:
-
I do not understand why there has to be so many forums for group
discussion on essentially the very same topic. I'm building a PCB
boat and that is what I am interested in. I guess I'm the lazy sort
and just want to go to one website for general discussion on the
subject that I am interested in. Its almost like some folks just
want to get a piece of the action for their own personal reasons,
when actually it just causes confusion about where to find it. When I
decided to build a PCB designed boat, I searched for a forum who's
topic was PCB boats and I found this site. There is nothing wrong
with looking at other sites for similar information.. but why
splinter the thing up?

regards,

Dennis
Bellingham, WA

-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "nels" <arvent@...> wrote:

>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, dave seeton <daveseeton@> wrote:
> >
> > Please post the link again?
> > Dave
> >
> Hi Dave,
>
> Apparently the message announcing the link to the new group has been
> deleted and the founder has been banned as well.
>
> I got the following e-mail from him.
>
> Nels,
> Thanks for your support of the Instantboat group.
>
> I want you to know that the Instantboat group has the approval of
> Dynamite. Before I made the group I discussed it with him. As a
> matter of fact, I spoke with him yesterday and he was very pleased

> hear we have the group set up. (At 79 he is still going strong and
> was in the shop with his son building a lobster boat). I will speak
> with him again today.
>
> I am not real sure but I think someone has deleted my membership at
> the Bolger group. I haven't been able to post there. I reapplied
> and it is pending. I am always amazed when people react from fear
> rather than understanding positive possibilities. Combining both
> groups through links only strengthens. It was surprising to find but
> many on the Payson message board didn't realize the Bolger group
> existed until I told them.
>
> The reaction received at the Bolger group caused realization that
> some do not understand that boat builders have the determination of
> passion to be involved in multiple boating groups and sites.
>
> Again thank you for your reasoned approach.
>
>
> Jim
>
> p.s. You may reproduce this e-mail.
>

---------------------------------
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-
I do not understand why there has to be so many forums for group
discussion on essentially the very same topic. I'm building a PCB
boat and that is what I am interested in. I guess I'm the lazy sort
and just want to go to one website for general discussion on the
subject that I am interested in. Its almost like some folks just
want to get a piece of the action for their own personal reasons,
when actually it just causes confusion about where to find it. When I
decided to build a PCB designed boat, I searched for a forum who's
topic was PCB boats and I found this site. There is nothing wrong
with looking at other sites for similar information.. but why
splinter the thing up?

regards,

Dennis
Bellingham, WA

-- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "nels" <arvent@...> wrote:

>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, dave seeton <daveseeton@> wrote:
> >
> > Please post the link again?
> > Dave
> >
> Hi Dave,
>
> Apparently the message announcing the link to the new group has been
> deleted and the founder has been banned as well.
>
> I got the following e-mail from him.
>
> Nels,
> Thanks for your support of the Instantboat group.
>
> I want you to know that the Instantboat group has the approval of
> Dynamite. Before I made the group I discussed it with him. As a
> matter of fact, I spoke with him yesterday and he was very pleased

> hear we have the group set up. (At 79 he is still going strong and
> was in the shop with his son building a lobster boat). I will speak
> with him again today.
>
> I am not real sure but I think someone has deleted my membership at
> the Bolger group. I haven't been able to post there. I reapplied
> and it is pending. I am always amazed when people react from fear
> rather than understanding positive possibilities. Combining both
> groups through links only strengthens. It was surprising to find but
> many on the Payson message board didn't realize the Bolger group
> existed until I told them.
>
> The reaction received at the Bolger group caused realization that
> some do not understand that boat builders have the determination of
> passion to be involved in multiple boating groups and sites.
>
> Again thank you for your reasoned approach.
>
>
> Jim
>
> p.s. You may reproduce this e-mail.
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "nels" <arvent@...> wrote:

> Apparently the message announcing the link to the new group has been
> deleted and the founder has been banned as well.
>

Since I will likely be the next to go, I would like to say it's been
great being here!

Nels

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, dave seeton <daveseeton@...> wrote:

>
> Please post the link again?
> Dave
>

Hi Dave,

Apparently the message announcing the link to the new group has been
deleted and the founder has been banned as well.

I got the following e-mail from him.

Nels,
Thanks for your support of the Instantboat group.

I want you to know that the Instantboat group has the approval of
Dynamite. Before I made the group I discussed it with him. As a
matter of fact, I spoke with him yesterday and he was very pleased to
hear we have the group set up. (At 79 he is still going strong and
was in the shop with his son building a lobster boat). I will speak
with him again today.

I am not real sure but I think someone has deleted my membership at
the Bolger group. I haven't been able to post there. I reapplied
and it is pending. I am always amazed when people react from fear
rather than understanding positive possibilities. Combining both
groups through links only strengthens. It was surprising to find but
many on the Payson message board didn't realize the Bolger group
existed until I told them.

The reaction received at the Bolger group caused realization that
some do not understand that boat builders have the determination of
passion to be involved in multiple boating groups and sites.

Again thank you for your reasoned approach.

Jim

p.s. You may reproduce this e-mail.

Please post the link again?
Dave

Jim Kessler <jkess777@...> wrote: As previously stated this Instantboat group is for those interested
in Instantboats. All Instantboats are included. Instantboats where
created through the relationship of Mr. Bolger and H.H. Payson and
wouldnt have existed without Payson or Bolger.

The Bolger group covers all Bolger designs. Instantboats covers only
the boats that Phil and Harold colaberated on. You must remember that
Dynamite while building the boats found the true measurements for
certian builds. Actually some builds where sent to him by Phil to
find out the measurements.

Mr. Payson then wrote the books for these builds. Why anyone would
think that making a Payson group would be devisive is beyound my
personal belief.

Jim

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Paul Esterle <pesterle@...> wrote:
>
> So there is no Micro information that might be of interest to
others and
> no instant boat information that might pertain to other boats. And
if
> you're not sure what boat you might be interested in, you'll be
> searching an ever increasing number of sites with less and less
> information on them and fewer participants? Sounds like what
started to
> happen on the Columbia Yacht Owners site. Splinter groups forming
for
> each separate Columbia model. Soon all were gravitating back to the
main
> site and traffic dried up on the splinter sites. Just my $.02
>
> Paul Esterle
> Freelance Boating Writer
> Columbia 10.7, 26 & Matilda 20
> North East, MD.
> "Capt'n Pauley's Boat Repairs & Upgrades"
> book at www.captnpauley.com
> home.comcast.net/~pesterle/
>
>
>
> nels wrote:
> >
> > --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%
40yahoogroups.com>, "Jim
> > Kessler" <jkess777@> wrote:
> > >
> > > All,
> > > The group is for Instantboats only. I hardly see how that
splinters
> > > or divides. It also links to Dynamite's website and
messageboard.
> > > I've spoken him personally about this.
> > >
> > > There will also be new dory plans available.
> > >
> > > Jim
> >
> > I think it is a great idea and will support it.
> >
> > Some of us have even tossed around the idea of forming a Micro
group.
> > The nice thing it would do is keep all the building information
and
> > photos in one area. Now it is scattered all over the place and a
heck
> > of a job trying to find anything.
> >
> > Nels
> >
> >
>

---------------------------------
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Paul Esterle <pesterle@...> wrote:

>
> So there is no Micro information that might be of interest to others

and

> no instant boat information that might pertain to other boats.

There has been a group for Microtrawler going since 2000 and I haven't
heard any complaints about that site.

If a person is interested in that design they can go there and all the
information is in once place. I believe Hawkeye abd Retreiver are also
discussed.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microtrawler/?yguid=62964199

Chebacco has had it's own online newsletter going for a lot longer
than that, which is a tremendous source of information for Chebacco
owners and dreamers.

http://chebacco.com/

There was also a group for Oldshoe going for awhile but the moderator
was not around much it seemed. Twice I tried to join and never got a
response.

We get some pretty long threads going on the Oldshoe, Micro and Long
Micro and they are usually centered around the same subjects over and
over again. Where to find information. Keel pouring. Relative size.
Trailering. The sail plan. Motor size and so on. If all this
information was at one location it would save a lot of repetition on
this board and a lot of time for prospective builders and those who
might want to dig up the information for them.

Nels

Nels

So there is no Micro information that might be of interest to others and
no instant boat information that might pertain to other boats. And if
you're not sure what boat you might be interested in, you'll be
searching an ever increasing number of sites with less and less
information on them and fewer participants? Sounds like what started to
happen on the Columbia Yacht Owners site. Splinter groups forming for
each separate Columbia model. Soon all were gravitating back to the main
site and traffic dried up on the splinter sites. Just my $.02

Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
Columbia 10.7, 26 & Matilda 20
North East, MD.
“Capt’n Pauley’s Boat Repairs & Upgrades”
book at www.captnpauley.com
home.comcast.net/~pesterle/

nels wrote:

>
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com<mailto:bolger%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jim
> Kessler" <jkess777@...> wrote:
> >
> > All,
> > The group is for Instantboats only. I hardly see how that splinters
> > or divides. It also links to Dynamite's website and messageboard.
> > I've spoken him personally about this.
> >
> > There will also be new dory plans available.
> >
> > Jim
>
> I think it is a great idea and will support it.
>
> Some of us have even tossed around the idea of forming a Micro group.
> The nice thing it would do is keep all the building information and
> photos in one area. Now it is scattered all over the place and a heck
> of a job trying to find anything.
>
> Nels
>
>

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Kessler" <jkess777@...> wrote:

>
> All,
> The group is for Instantboats only. I hardly see how that splinters
> or divides. It also links to Dynamite's website and messageboard.
> I've spoken him personally about this.
>
> There will also be new dory plans available.
>
> Jim

I think it is a great idea and will support it.

Some of us have even tossed around the idea of forming a Micro group.
The nice thing it would do is keep all the building information and
photos in one area. Now it is scattered all over the place and a heck
of a job trying to find anything.

Nels

All,
The group is for Instantboats only. I hardly see how that splinters
or divides. It also links to Dynamite's website and messageboard.
I've spoken him personally about this.

There will also be new dory plans available.

Jim

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Paul Esterle <pesterle@...> wrote:
>
> I agree, why do we need another subdivision???
>
> Paul Esterle
> Freelance Boating Writer
> Columbia 10.7, 26 & Matilda 20
> North East, MD.
> "Capt'n Pauley's Boat Repairs & Upgrades"
> book at www.captnpauley.com
> home.comcast.net/~pesterle/
>
>
>
> Michael Galvin wrote:
> >
> > This seems like an unecessary splintering of this group.
> >
> > Michael Galvin
> >
> > Jim Kessler wrote:
> >
> > > Hello all,
> > > We just started a new yahoo group for Bolger/Payson boats.
> > >
> > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/>
> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/>>
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

I agree, why do we need another subdivision???

Paul Esterle
Freelance Boating Writer
Columbia 10.7, 26 & Matilda 20
North East, MD.
“Capt’n Pauley’s Boat Repairs & Upgrades”
book at www.captnpauley.com
home.comcast.net/~pesterle/

Michael Galvin wrote:

>
> This seems like an unecessary splintering of this group.
>
> Michael Galvin
>
> Jim Kessler wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> > We just started a new yahoo group for Bolger/Payson boats.
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/>
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/>>
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
>
>

This seems like an unecessary splintering of this group.

Michael Galvin

Jim Kessler wrote:

> Hello all,
> We just started a new yahoo group for Bolger/Payson boats.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/>
>
> Jim
>
>