Re: Modified Super Bee
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
******* That's better than 5 stars already
I see an added Vee bottom aft too. What else? :-) XLNT
Graeme
>*
> See this URL for isometric image....
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=989994296&size=o
> All this discussion of Bee and Super Bee, reminds me of some
> thinking I have done about a dingy design based on Super Bee. I
> was dreamingthat for improved rowing capability, you could taper
> aft end of the box shoe of the hull, and then add a 1/2" plywood
> thin plate on the bottom of the after half of the box shoe. For
> low speed rowing, you would have good trailing end hyrodynamics,
> (with a bit of extra wetted surface area),
> but without the blunt end turbulence induced drag. But at planing*
> speed, the shoe would still have full surface area for lift.
> Also, Bee is nice and boxy. I considered, why not give the sides*
> and bottom a bit more sweeping curvyness, for no other good reason
> than to have the boat look more 'boat like'.
> And, lastly, I thought, why not add one of those magical twisted*
> forefoot fillet fillers, common on so many recent Bolger designs to
> give the stem a pretty forefoot. It looks like a tight twist, but
> I hope it would be achievable with 1/8" veneer, with expanded foam
> injected in the hollow volume.
> The hull shown in the isometric is 10 feet long, and I bet it would*
> plane with 10 horsepower, while also being a decent rowboat.
******* That's better than 5 stars already
I see an added Vee bottom aft too. What else? :-) XLNT
Graeme
AMAZING !
UNBELIEVABLE !!!
Bruce, I was just modifying one of my own box keel designs yesterday,
and my solution was to do the exact same thing you did on the aft end
of your Super Bee hull ...
You curved the aft sides of the box keel together so water can flow
together under the hull -- for very efficient displacement speed
performance. Then you extended the bottom panel of the box keel the
full width from its mid-section all the way aft with what you refer to
as a "plywood plate" in order to create a planing shoe for better high
speed performance.
I came up with the same solution for my boat, in a different manner but
with the same results and conclusions:
I first tried using an Atkin tunnel-stern Seabright skiff bottom on my
boat which is very narrow and canoe-like with amas for lateral
stability -- a modernized Philippine banca. But the tunnel-stern
concept doesn't work well on such a narrow boat, so I was noodling
around in FreeShip trying to come up with a better solution for such a
narrow hull, and this is what I ended up with:
http://www.bagacayboatworks.com/linkfiles/planingshoebanca1.jpg
http://www.bagacayboatworks.com/linkfiles/planingshoebanca2.jpg
Your explanation of why this is likely to work is the same as mine: Low
speed performance is enhanced by good trailing end hyrodynamics, and at
planing speeds the shoe provides full surface lifting area.
I think the design will also minimize vertical motion at rest, perhaps
making the boat a bit more comfortable in waves and chop. Water will
try to flow in and out of the space above the planing shoe as the boat
moves up and down in response to wave action. That planing shoe should
resist this motion, essentially by creating a "hydraulic shock
absorber" on the aft end of the boat.
I hope this hull shape actually works. One of these days when I have
the time, I am going to build one and see if it works or not. I
suspect that my particular boat won't turn very easily because it
cannot be heeled over in a turn like your Super Bee can. But it should
certainly track well, and that's a more important feature for my boat's
ultimate use anyways.
I guess great minds really do think alike!
:)
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
UNBELIEVABLE !!!
Bruce, I was just modifying one of my own box keel designs yesterday,
and my solution was to do the exact same thing you did on the aft end
of your Super Bee hull ...
You curved the aft sides of the box keel together so water can flow
together under the hull -- for very efficient displacement speed
performance. Then you extended the bottom panel of the box keel the
full width from its mid-section all the way aft with what you refer to
as a "plywood plate" in order to create a planing shoe for better high
speed performance.
I came up with the same solution for my boat, in a different manner but
with the same results and conclusions:
I first tried using an Atkin tunnel-stern Seabright skiff bottom on my
boat which is very narrow and canoe-like with amas for lateral
stability -- a modernized Philippine banca. But the tunnel-stern
concept doesn't work well on such a narrow boat, so I was noodling
around in FreeShip trying to come up with a better solution for such a
narrow hull, and this is what I ended up with:
http://www.bagacayboatworks.com/linkfiles/planingshoebanca1.jpg
http://www.bagacayboatworks.com/linkfiles/planingshoebanca2.jpg
Your explanation of why this is likely to work is the same as mine: Low
speed performance is enhanced by good trailing end hyrodynamics, and at
planing speeds the shoe provides full surface lifting area.
I think the design will also minimize vertical motion at rest, perhaps
making the boat a bit more comfortable in waves and chop. Water will
try to flow in and out of the space above the planing shoe as the boat
moves up and down in response to wave action. That planing shoe should
resist this motion, essentially by creating a "hydraulic shock
absorber" on the aft end of the boat.
I hope this hull shape actually works. One of these days when I have
the time, I am going to build one and see if it works or not. I
suspect that my particular boat won't turn very easily because it
cannot be heeled over in a turn like your Super Bee can. But it should
certainly track well, and that's a more important feature for my boat's
ultimate use anyways.
I guess great minds really do think alike!
:)
Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com
> See this URL for isometric image....
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=989994296&size=o
>
> All this discussion of Bee and Super Bee, reminds me of some thinking
> I have done about a dingy design based on Super Bee. I was dreaming
> that for improved rowing capability, you could taper aft end of the
> box shoe of the hull, and then add a 1/2" plywood thin plate on the
> bottom of the after half of the box shoe. For low speed rowing, you
> would have good trailing end hyrodynamics, (with a bit of extra
> wetted surface area), but without the blunt end turbulence induced
> drag. But at planing speed, the shoe would still have full surface
> area for lift.
>
> Also, Bee is nice and boxy. I considered, why not give the sides and
> bottom a bit more sweeping curvyness, for no other good reason than
> to have the boat look more 'boat like'.
>
> And, lastly, I thought, why not add one of those magical twisted
> forefoot fillet fillers, common on so many recent Bolger designs to
> give the stem a pretty forefoot. It looks like a tight twist, but I
> hope it would be achievable with 1/8" veneer, with expanded foam
> injected in the hollow volume.
>
> The hull shown in the isometric is 10 feet long, and I bet it would
> plane with 10 horsepower, while also being a decent rowboat.
See this URL for isometric image....
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=989994296&size=o
All this discussion of Bee and Super Bee, reminds me of some thinking
I have done about a dingy design based on Super Bee. I was dreaming
that for improved rowing capability, you could taper aft end of the
box shoe of the hull, and then add a 1/2" plywood thin plate on the
bottom of the after half of the box shoe. For low speed rowing, you
would have good trailing end hyrodynamics, (with a bit of extra wetted
surface area), but without the blunt end turbulence induced drag. But
at planing speed, the shoe would still have full surface area for
lift.
Also, Bee is nice and boxy. I considered, why not give the sides and
bottom a bit more sweeping curvyness, for no other good reason than to
have the boat look more 'boat like'.
And, lastly, I thought, why not add one of those magical twisted
forefoot fillet fillers, common on so many recent Bolger designs to
give the stem a pretty forefoot. It looks like a tight twist, but I
hope it would be achievable with 1/8" veneer, with expanded foam
injected in the hollow volume.
The hull shown in the isometric is 10 feet long, and I bet it would
plane with 10 horsepower, while also being a decent rowboat.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=989994296&size=o
All this discussion of Bee and Super Bee, reminds me of some thinking
I have done about a dingy design based on Super Bee. I was dreaming
that for improved rowing capability, you could taper aft end of the
box shoe of the hull, and then add a 1/2" plywood thin plate on the
bottom of the after half of the box shoe. For low speed rowing, you
would have good trailing end hyrodynamics, (with a bit of extra wetted
surface area), but without the blunt end turbulence induced drag. But
at planing speed, the shoe would still have full surface area for
lift.
Also, Bee is nice and boxy. I considered, why not give the sides and
bottom a bit more sweeping curvyness, for no other good reason than to
have the boat look more 'boat like'.
And, lastly, I thought, why not add one of those magical twisted
forefoot fillet fillers, common on so many recent Bolger designs to
give the stem a pretty forefoot. It looks like a tight twist, but I
hope it would be achievable with 1/8" veneer, with expanded foam
injected in the hollow volume.
The hull shown in the isometric is 10 feet long, and I bet it would
plane with 10 horsepower, while also being a decent rowboat.