Re: [bolger] Re: Micro triangular chines?
Gang,
There's another type of triangular chine. This one has a
rabbet either side to accept the planking, so it projects
beyond in order to save the edges. It used to be favored by
designer Edson Schock for small, plywood boats, but that was
long before foolproof, glass over timber lay-up became
popular. In Micro, I'll bet the bevels are constant front to
back, so each one comes out of a table saw with only about
four passes.
Chris talks sense to me. The triangles will waste lots of wood.
Bye...
Chris Crandall wrote:
There's another type of triangular chine. This one has a
rabbet either side to accept the planking, so it projects
beyond in order to save the edges. It used to be favored by
designer Edson Schock for small, plywood boats, but that was
long before foolproof, glass over timber lay-up became
popular. In Micro, I'll bet the bevels are constant front to
back, so each one comes out of a table saw with only about
four passes.
Chris talks sense to me. The triangles will waste lots of wood.
Bye...
Chris Crandall wrote:
>
> I recommend against the traingular chines, for several reasons.
>
> (1) It ain't the way it was designed, and there's good reasons for them to
> be this qay.
>
> (2) It adds a significant hassle, to make the chine log.
>
> (3) It adds a sharper angle, which makes it even harder for the fiberglass
> cloth to bend around.
>
> (4) It "thins" the chine log, making fastening the chine log tricky,
> as the screws/nails will go through the "thin" part.
>
> (5) It makes bending the chne a little tricky, as it's no longer square,
> and prone to "flopping" a bit more, and more likely to split while bending
> (although this isn't a serious issue with clamps/hands/forethought).
>
> In sum, whether an interior or an exterior chine log, I think that
> "square" as designed has enough advantages not to want to mess with it,
> unless you have a clear idea of the advantages.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> Bolger rules:
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
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I would think that you would make sure the sides were fair, then one could
make a pattern with cardboard, a little oversize, use a router with a
trimmer bit to take down to final shape after bottom is epoxied on to sides.
This reminds me, I have fitted 6 inch sanding disks and backer to my 4 and
half high speed grinder and while it is dangerous, with no guard, it eats
wood and hard epoxy better than anything I have seen. It is a handfull to
control though. Clyde
Vance Cowan wrote:
make a pattern with cardboard, a little oversize, use a router with a
trimmer bit to take down to final shape after bottom is epoxied on to sides.
This reminds me, I have fitted 6 inch sanding disks and backer to my 4 and
half high speed grinder and while it is dangerous, with no guard, it eats
wood and hard epoxy better than anything I have seen. It is a handfull to
control though. Clyde
Vance Cowan wrote:
> In the plans, Bolger has given the expanded shape of the sides
I recommend against the traingular chines, for several reasons.
(1) It ain't the way it was designed, and there's good reasons for them to
be this qay.
(2) It adds a significant hassle, to make the chine log.
(3) It adds a sharper angle, which makes it even harder for the fiberglass
cloth to bend around.
(4) It "thins" the chine log, making fastening the chine log tricky,
as the screws/nails will go through the "thin" part.
(5) It makes bending the chne a little tricky, as it's no longer square,
and prone to "flopping" a bit more, and more likely to split while bending
(although this isn't a serious issue with clamps/hands/forethought).
In sum, whether an interior or an exterior chine log, I think that
"square" as designed has enough advantages not to want to mess with it,
unless you have a clear idea of the advantages.
(1) It ain't the way it was designed, and there's good reasons for them to
be this qay.
(2) It adds a significant hassle, to make the chine log.
(3) It adds a sharper angle, which makes it even harder for the fiberglass
cloth to bend around.
(4) It "thins" the chine log, making fastening the chine log tricky,
as the screws/nails will go through the "thin" part.
(5) It makes bending the chne a little tricky, as it's no longer square,
and prone to "flopping" a bit more, and more likely to split while bending
(although this isn't a serious issue with clamps/hands/forethought).
In sum, whether an interior or an exterior chine log, I think that
"square" as designed has enough advantages not to want to mess with it,
unless you have a clear idea of the advantages.
Great minds think alike. I also considered the tempory "chine" to put the sides
in the proper position, before marking and cutting then stitching. And I've
also thought about the fact that stitch and glues real value is in designs where
the chines are all of wierd angles and it would be hard to do with normal pieces
of wood. And micro's chines certainly don't fall into that camp ;-)
Glen
"Vance Cowan" <vcgraphics@...> on 06/23/2000 03:26:34 PM
Please respond tobolger@egroups.com
Sent by: "Vance Cowan" <vcgraphics@...>
To:bolger@egroups.com
cc: (Glen Gibson/HQ/3Com)
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro triangular chines?
Before the longitudenals are in, those ply sides are pretty
wobbly. Maybe a light temporary "chine" would stiffen things up
enough to do the marking. By the way, I have all these negative
thoughts about this process because I too thought of trying
stitch and glue. Micro was designed with lumberyard materials
in mind, but nowadays these are of such a poor quality (see the
crappy wood thread) that stitch and glue looks pretty good, if
possible. But in my case the "devil's advocate" had his way and I
decided that if my Micro ever gets built it will be as designated in
the plans. Also, Bolger shows a well rounded chine. I think this
was the final reason I dropped the idea.
Vance
in the proper position, before marking and cutting then stitching. And I've
also thought about the fact that stitch and glues real value is in designs where
the chines are all of wierd angles and it would be hard to do with normal pieces
of wood. And micro's chines certainly don't fall into that camp ;-)
Glen
"Vance Cowan" <vcgraphics@...> on 06/23/2000 03:26:34 PM
Please respond tobolger@egroups.com
Sent by: "Vance Cowan" <vcgraphics@...>
To:bolger@egroups.com
cc: (Glen Gibson/HQ/3Com)
Subject: [bolger] Re: Micro triangular chines?
Before the longitudenals are in, those ply sides are pretty
wobbly. Maybe a light temporary "chine" would stiffen things up
enough to do the marking. By the way, I have all these negative
thoughts about this process because I too thought of trying
stitch and glue. Micro was designed with lumberyard materials
in mind, but nowadays these are of such a poor quality (see the
crappy wood thread) that stitch and glue looks pretty good, if
possible. But in my case the "devil's advocate" had his way and I
decided that if my Micro ever gets built it will be as designated in
the plans. Also, Bolger shows a well rounded chine. I think this
was the final reason I dropped the idea.
Vance
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, StepHydro@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 06/23/2000 5:<BR26:<BR41 PM
> Eastern Daylight , vcgraphics@t... writes:
> > Are your drafting skills up to expanding the shape of the
bottom?
> > This would be necessary in stitch and glue.
>
> Hmmm,
>
> Another way is full-sized drafting on the spot. Assemble the
bulkheads and
> sides and pick up the "expanded" bottom shape by laying it on
the assembly
> and marking. Use a good drafting pencil :-)
>
> Cheers/Step
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Bolger rules:
- no cursing
- stay on topic
- use punctuation
- add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
- add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Before the longitudenals are in, those ply sides are pretty
wobbly. Maybe a light temporary "chine" would stiffen things up
enough to do the marking. By the way, I have all these negative
thoughts about this process because I too thought of trying
stitch and glue. Micro was designed with lumberyard materials
in mind, but nowadays these are of such a poor quality (see the
crappy wood thread) that stitch and glue looks pretty good, if
possible. But in my case the "devil's advocate" had his way and I
decided that if my Micro ever gets built it will be as designated in
the plans. Also, Bolger shows a well rounded chine. I think this
was the final reason I dropped the idea.
Vance
wobbly. Maybe a light temporary "chine" would stiffen things up
enough to do the marking. By the way, I have all these negative
thoughts about this process because I too thought of trying
stitch and glue. Micro was designed with lumberyard materials
in mind, but nowadays these are of such a poor quality (see the
crappy wood thread) that stitch and glue looks pretty good, if
possible. But in my case the "devil's advocate" had his way and I
decided that if my Micro ever gets built it will be as designated in
the plans. Also, Bolger shows a well rounded chine. I think this
was the final reason I dropped the idea.
Vance
--- Inbolger@egroups.com, StepHydro@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 06/23/2000 5:<BR26:<BR41 PM
> Eastern Daylight , vcgraphics@t... writes:
> > Are your drafting skills up to expanding the shape of the
bottom?
> > This would be necessary in stitch and glue.
>
> Hmmm,
>
> Another way is full-sized drafting on the spot. Assemble the
bulkheads and
> sides and pick up the "expanded" bottom shape by laying it on
the assembly
> and marking. Use a good drafting pencil :-)
>
> Cheers/Step
In a message dated 06/23/2000 5:<BR26:<BR41 PM
Eastern Daylight ,vcgraphics@...writes:
Another way is full-sized drafting on the spot. Assemble the bulkheads and
sides and pick up the "expanded" bottom shape by laying it on the assembly
and marking. Use a good drafting pencil :-)
Cheers/Step
Eastern Daylight ,vcgraphics@...writes:
> In the plans, Bolger has given the expanded shape of the sidesHmmm,
> only. As you know, after the chines are fitted the bottom is to be
> installed (with overlap) and then trimmed to size.
>
> Are your drafting skills up to expanding the shape of the bottom?
> This would be necessary in stitch and glue.
Another way is full-sized drafting on the spot. Assemble the bulkheads and
sides and pick up the "expanded" bottom shape by laying it on the assembly
and marking. Use a good drafting pencil :-)
Cheers/Step