RE: [bolger] Re: Diablo demise, suggestions welcome

Stipulated, I would seek advice from PCB&F before buying materials.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Stefan Probst
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:59 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Re: Diablo demise, suggestions welcome

--- "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...> wrote:

>
> What about Hawkeye, or Microtrawler with the cabin left off?

Be careful! In general (i.e. without looking specifically at those
designs) cabins might be needed for structural strength.

Stefan

Bolger rules!!!
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--- "Christopher C. Wetherill" <wetherillc@...> wrote:

>
> What about Hawkeye, or Microtrawler with the cabin left off?

Be careful! In general (i.e. without looking specifically at those
designs) cabins might be needed for structural strength.

Stefan

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kenneth Grome <bagacayboatworks@...> wrote:

> > the suggestion for the Seabright Skiff was also
> > a good one, I did notice that the powered versions
> > I could find, including Robb White's, were powered
> > with inboard power.
>
> Yeah, I was going to ask where a Seabright skiff might be found that
> uses an outboard engine? All the ones I know about are strictly
> inboard powered. If there's an outboard powered Seabright skiff online
> somewhere please tell me where it is. There are none on the
> atkinboatplans.com web site, that's for sure.
>

Actually, I was thinking of the original form as drawn by the late
John Gardner of Mystic Seaport. It was developed as a working surf
boat and was rowed or sailed. I had one with a sprit rig. I weigh
over 200 pounds and could stand on the gunwale without shipping any
water. It had a fairly high transom, but you could bolt a stand-off
motor mount bracket to it and use your longshaft motor. I have seen
many small sailboats with such an arrangement. In truth, however, it
was not a serious suggestion since this is a Bolger oriented site. I
was merely implying that there are many ways to approach the question.

My other suggestion, a box-keel boat looks on reflection like no
improvement over Diablo. Mr Bolger points out in Microtrawler's
writeup (chapter 55 of Boats with an Open Mind)) that they are
difficult at low speed in a crosswind. Further, I infer from "Fast
Motorsailer" (chapter 61), whose after sections are similar to Diablo
that the box keel optimizes behavior at planing speed only.

V/R
Chris

What about Hawkeye, or Microtrawler with the cabin left off?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Kenneth Grome
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 11:21 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [bolger] Re: Diablo demise, suggestions welcome

> the suggestion for the Seabright Skiff was also
> a good one, I did notice that the powered versions
> I could find, including Robb White's, were powered
> with inboard power.

Yeah, I was going to ask where a Seabright skiff might be found that
uses an outboard engine? All the ones I know about are strictly
inboard powered. If there's an outboard powered Seabright skiff online
somewhere please tell me where it is. There are none on the
atkinboatplans.com web site, that's for sure.

> Ideally I want a boat to fish with and the Diablo
> had a nasty habit of blowing around quite a bit,
> plus the lack of a splashwell on the transom
> appeared to be a bit of a liability. I own a 10hp
> 2cycle, longshaft Johnson that works great and
> obviously would like to put it on the next boat.
> Requirements:
> 1. safe for two full grown men to fish in for
> several hours
> 2. must be no longer than 16 feet.
> 3. must use a 10 hp longshaft motor.

It sounds like you won't be able to do much better than William
Atkin's "Scandal". It is reported to be a great little boat, cheap and
easy to build and much less windage than Diablo:

http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Oar/Scandal.html
http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Photos/Scandal/index.html

I think it doesn't have a splash well, but it would be a no-brainer to
add one. You'll need to drive from the middle of the boat anyways
because it needs more weight forward than many outboards, so a splash
well won't be in the way, although you would need a tiller extension.

A guy named Pat Patteson built one and wrote about it on duckworks.
Apparently he loves it:

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/07/projects/scandal/

Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com

Bolger rules!!!
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- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
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> the suggestion for the Seabright Skiff was also
> a good one, I did notice that the powered versions
> I could find, including Robb White's, were powered
> with inboard power.

> Ideally I want a boat to fish with and the Diablo
> had a nasty habit of blowing around quite a bit,
> plus the lack of a splashwell on the transom
> appeared to be a bit of a liability. I own a 10hp
> 2cycle, longshaft Johnson that works great and
> obviously would like to put it on the next boat.
> Requirements:
> 1. safe for two full grown men to fish in for
> several hours
> 2. must be no longer than 16 feet.
> 3. must use a 10 hp longshaft motor.

Thank you for your concern -

The Diablo has quite a nice shape for handling an average 1-2 foot
chop found on my normal sailing waters. My concern was more for
shipping water in over the corners of the transom, that is why I will
build my next boat with a slop well and plenty of floatation to float
the motor head. As Diablo is basically a modified dory shape, she did
very well coming home in following seas. The bow shape is a
masterful design and the boat rose quite comfortably with no tendency
to skid left or right. Due to it's light weight however, the boat
had a tendency to blow around while trolling at slow speeds. I put
the anchors and battery in the bow when soloing. I often used a sea
anchor (bucket with a line on it, or a length of coiled line) off the
the corner to keep the boat at the desired angle.

You are correct in your statement that hypothermia is always a
concern, as a frostbite sailor it is something that I am critically
aware of and we always pick our weather carefully. We have used this
boat as a chase boat for frostbiting as it is easy for a swamped,
cold, tired sailor to climb in over the railing without capsizing the
boat. The rail comes to you and you just kind of flop in to the
boat.

I would not venture out more than 2 miles on open water as things can
change quickly. Going to Nantucket, fishing the bars off Monomoy,
are definately off limits to this boat. But, Narragansett Bay,
Pleasant Bay, the upper Merrimack down to Newburyport harbor,
Newport, Gloucester, Rockport, inner Boston Harbor have not been a
problem in the 20 years I have been running this boat. We stay out
of the rips and bars.

Seamanship is an art and prudence and safety always come first. I
have seen people hurt themselves in any sized boat!

Happy Boating, wear your pfd.

David Jost
"on his way to the yard with the Skill saw in hand."

> Not sure why you would risk safety on
> bays in a flat bottom skiff.

I do not understand where you're coming from with this comment. What in
your opinion is inherently unsafe about a 15-16 foot flat bottom skiff
in a bay?

Sincerely,
Ken Grome
Bagacay Boatworks
www.bagacayboatworks.com

David,
I uploaded some dory profiles for you to look at. The salmon doey is
a real fishing boat. There are also sone skiffs. These boats are not
Insatant Boats but many where designed by PB. These are also the
forrunners of Diablo.

Jim

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <skipper-mike@...> wrote:
>
> Not sure why you would risk safety on bays in a flat bottom skiff.
>
> You mentioned boating in nice weather. Well..that can quickly change
> out on the water. Especially on bays, harbors and open water.
> Why get beat up on the soup with a flat bottom boat? Even 16 ft of
> boat is not much surface between floating and swimming.
>
> I would consider at least 20 ft for 2 people on open water with lots
> of freeboard.
>
> Safety is paramont over cost. Hypothermea and drowing are the real
> world high costs in boating.
>
> - Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Group -
> >
> > It has now come time to put my Diablo out of her misery. the rot
and
> > delamination has entered all panels to some extent and I now deem
her
> > unrepairable (I know I have brought her back from the dead
several
> > times, but I fear this is it). Tomorrow, I will take the
circular
> > saw to her and make her fit for the dumpster.
> >
> > I now have the dilemma of what to replace her with. Ideally I
want a
> > boat to fish with and the Diablo had a nasty habit of blowing
around
> > quite a bit, plus the lack of a splashwell on the transom
appeared to
> > be a bit of a liability. I own a 10hp 2cycle, longshaft Johnson
that
> > works great and obviously would like to put it on the next boat.
> >
> > Requirements:
> > 1. safe for two full grown men to fish in for several hours
> > 2. must be no longer than 16 feet.
> > 3. must use a 10 hp longshaft motor.
> >
> > does anyone know anything of Fishcat?
> >
> > David Jost
> > "in mourning for the loss."
> >
>

David
Have you considered a Dory.
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Instantboats/photos/view/f6a5?b=3
There are Dory designs by PB that would meet everything you want.

Jim

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <skipper-mike@...> wrote:
>
> Not sure why you would risk safety on bays in a flat bottom skiff.
>
> You mentioned boating in nice weather. Well..that can quickly change
> out on the water. Especially on bays, harbors and open water.
> Why get beat up on the soup with a flat bottom boat? Even 16 ft of
> boat is not much surface between floating and swimming.
>
> I would consider at least 20 ft for 2 people on open water with lots
> of freeboard.
>
> Safety is paramont over cost. Hypothermea and drowing are the real
> world high costs in boating.
>
> - Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Group -
> >
> > It has now come time to put my Diablo out of her misery. the rot
and
> > delamination has entered all panels to some extent and I now deem
her
> > unrepairable (I know I have brought her back from the dead
several
> > times, but I fear this is it). Tomorrow, I will take the
circular
> > saw to her and make her fit for the dumpster.
> >
> > I now have the dilemma of what to replace her with. Ideally I
want a
> > boat to fish with and the Diablo had a nasty habit of blowing
around
> > quite a bit, plus the lack of a splashwell on the transom
appeared to
> > be a bit of a liability. I own a 10hp 2cycle, longshaft Johnson
that
> > works great and obviously would like to put it on the next boat.
> >
> > Requirements:
> > 1. safe for two full grown men to fish in for several hours
> > 2. must be no longer than 16 feet.
> > 3. must use a 10 hp longshaft motor.
> >
> > does anyone know anything of Fishcat?
> >
> > David Jost
> > "in mourning for the loss."
> >
>

Not sure why you would risk safety on bays in a flat bottom skiff.

You mentioned boating in nice weather. Well..that can quickly change
out on the water. Especially on bays, harbors and open water.
Why get beat up on the soup with a flat bottom boat? Even 16 ft of
boat is not much surface between floating and swimming.

I would consider at least 20 ft for 2 people on open water with lots
of freeboard.

Safety is paramont over cost. Hypothermea and drowing are the real
world high costs in boating.

- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:

>
> Dear Group -
>
> It has now come time to put my Diablo out of her misery. the rot and
> delamination has entered all panels to some extent and I now deem her
> unrepairable (I know I have brought her back from the dead several
> times, but I fear this is it). Tomorrow, I will take the circular
> saw to her and make her fit for the dumpster.
>
> I now have the dilemma of what to replace her with. Ideally I want a
> boat to fish with and the Diablo had a nasty habit of blowing around
> quite a bit, plus the lack of a splashwell on the transom appeared to
> be a bit of a liability. I own a 10hp 2cycle, longshaft Johnson that
> works great and obviously would like to put it on the next boat.
>
> Requirements:
> 1. safe for two full grown men to fish in for several hours
> 2. must be no longer than 16 feet.
> 3. must use a 10 hp longshaft motor.
>
> does anyone know anything of Fishcat?
>
> David Jost
> "in mourning for the loss."
>

Bruce -

What a great shape! I found your model pictures earlier today but did
not realize you had done them. Nice work! This is worth pursuing as I
have always wanted to get away from the sheet plywood boats. Kids
complain that they are weird. (at least the latest quote from the pre-
teen girl). I was about ready to go to an aluminum skiff. I am not
looking for great speed, but safety to go fishing in normal weather
around the Massachusetts bays and harbors, Boston Harbor being one of
them.

I am also going to look at the Amesbury skiff in Gardner's "Building
Small Craft". That could be a challenge as well. Birdwatcher is on hold
for the time being as the boat that gets the most use in our family has
been Diablo. I may even build another after all is said and done.

David

see

http://rides.webshots.com/album/347044472BwVPBe

for pictures of my Shivaree model

Also, I think this is a Shivaree photo

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/gatherings/tampa/image016-s.jpg

There were also pictures of an 18 foot Shivaree in MAIB about two years back.

Try not to be put off by the lapstrake construction. After having
built a few lapstrake boats now, I find that they take only a small
amount more work than a plywood panel boat, and you end up with a much
more refined shape. I have already done the strake expansions in
Free!ship, (I just need to find it, hiding around here somewhere),
which I would be happy to share.

Bruce -

thank you for the suggestion. Do you know where there might be a photo
of one? I will probably write Mr. Bolger and seek out his input here.
They have been very helpful in providing suggestions for building.

David Jost

Photos posted.http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeokhsb/Diablo%20rot.html

I strongly suspect that the glassing on the outside held the water in
the plywood. It is interesting to note that the stern well is solid
with no apparent rot as it was repaired a couple of years ago and
glassed in and out.

The Pointy Skiff next to the boat shows no rot after 20 years of use,
and it just is painted in and out. Will get to that tomorrow.

David Jost

> I now have the dilemma of what to replace her with.

I suggest a Shivaree16. Consider that Phil Bolger personally owns
one. He has the pick of boats, and chooses only the best.

The first two that spring to mind if you're not limiting yourself to
Bolger designs are:

The Welsford "Rifleman"

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jw/rifleman/index.htm

Also the Nichols "Laker" or "Little Laker"

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/nichols/laker/index.htm

Good luck, picking a plan is always a fun stage.

Cheers,
David Graybeal
Portland, OR

"I never let my schooling interfere with my education" -- Mark Twain

****************

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Group -
>
> It has now come time to put my Diablo out of her misery. the rot and
> delamination has entered all panels to some extent and I now deem her
> unrepairable (I know I have brought her back from the dead several
> times, but I fear this is it). Tomorrow, I will take the circular
> saw to her and make her fit for the dumpster.
>
> I now have the dilemma of what to replace her with. Ideally I want a
> boat to fish with and the Diablo had a nasty habit of blowing around
> quite a bit, plus the lack of a splashwell on the transom appeared to
> be a bit of a liability. I own a 10hp 2cycle, longshaft Johnson that
> works great and obviously would like to put it on the next boat.
>
> Requirements:
> 1. safe for two full grown men to fish in for several hours
> 2. must be no longer than 16 feet.
> 3. must use a 10 hp longshaft motor.
>
> does anyone know anything of Fishcat?
>
> David Jost
> "in mourning for the loss."
>

> the suggestion for the Seabright Skiff was also
> a good one, I did notice that the powered versions
> I could find, including Robb White's, were powered
> with inboard power.

> Ideally I want a boat to fish with and the Diablo
> had a nasty habit of blowing around quite a bit,
> plus the lack of a splashwell on the transom
> appeared to be a bit of a liability. I own a 10hp
> 2cycle, longshaft Johnson that works great and
> obviously would like to put it on the next boat.
> Requirements:
> 1. safe for two full grown men to fish in for
> several hours
> 2. must be no longer than 16 feet.
> 3. must use a 10 hp longshaft motor.

How about advancment into a hard chime Devlin design. Get out of the
weather too!
http://www.devlinboat.com/homebuiltleppik.htm

--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Group -
>
> It has now come time to put my Diablo out of her misery. the rot
and
> delamination has entered all panels to some extent and I now deem
her
> unrepairable (I know I have brought her back from the dead several
> times, but I fear this is it). Tomorrow, I will take the circular
> saw to her and make her fit for the dumpster.
>
> I now have the dilemma of what to replace her with. Ideally I want
a
> boat to fish with and the Diablo had a nasty habit of blowing
around
> quite a bit, plus the lack of a splashwell on the transom appeared
to
> be a bit of a liability. I own a 10hp 2cycle, longshaft Johnson
that
> works great and obviously would like to put it on the next boat.
>
> Requirements:
> 1. safe for two full grown men to fish in for several hours
> 2. must be no longer than 16 feet.
> 3. must use a 10 hp longshaft motor.
>
> does anyone know anything of Fishcat?
>
> David Jost
> "in mourning for the loss."
>

The smaller work skiff might work, but it involves 11 sheets of ply.
This makes it a rather expensive build for replacing what was a $200
boat (I used AC Ply and can verify that it's life expectancy is around
15 years.) Still am attracted to fishcat as it is should be the most
stable boat to fish from, yet still fast enough to raise an eyebrow or
two.

the suggestion for the Seabright Skiff was also a good one, I did
notice that the powered versions I could find, including Robb White's,
were powered with inboard power.

thank you,
david jost

David,

Your requirements would be met by a Seabright Skiff. For a Bolger design, I
would look at some of the short and wide box keel configurations.

Something else I have long pondered is how a Diablo would behave with a pair
of 4 to 6 foot keelsons about 1.5" wide and 2" deep at the deepest point.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From:bolger@yahoogroups.com[mailto:bolger@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
dnjost
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:56 PM
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [bolger] Diablo demise, suggestions welcome

Dear Group -

It has now come time to put my Diablo out of her misery. the rot and
delamination has entered all panels to some extent and I now deem her
unrepairable (I know I have brought her back from the dead several
times, but I fear this is it). Tomorrow, I will take the circular
saw to her and make her fit for the dumpster.

I now have the dilemma of what to replace her with. Ideally I want a
boat to fish with and the Diablo had a nasty habit of blowing around
quite a bit, plus the lack of a splashwell on the transom appeared to
be a bit of a liability. I own a 10hp 2cycle, longshaft Johnson that
works great and obviously would like to put it on the next boat.

Requirements:
1. safe for two full grown men to fish in for several hours
2. must be no longer than 16 feet.
3. must use a 10 hp longshaft motor.

does anyone know anything of Fishcat?

David Jost
"in mourning for the loss."

Bolger rules!!!
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead
horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax:
(978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links

If you are locked into PCB designs you might look at the smaller Work Skiff (Check Payson's web site). Otherwise, you might look at the plans sold by 'Woodenboat' for the Ben Garvey.

JohnT

----- Original Message -----
From: dnjost
To:bolger@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 7:55 PM
Subject: [bolger] Diablo demise, suggestions welcome

Dear Group -

It has now come time to put my Diablo out of her misery. the rot and
delamination has entered all panels to some extent and I now deem her
unrepairable (I know I have brought her back from the dead several
times, but I fear this is it). Tomorrow, I will take the circular
saw to her and make her fit for the dumpster.

I now have the dilemma of what to replace her with. Ideally I want a
boat to fish with and the Diablo had a nasty habit of blowing around
quite a bit, plus the lack of a splashwell on the transom appeared to
be a bit of a liability. I own a 10hp 2cycle, longshaft Johnson that
works great and obviously would like to put it on the next boat.

Requirements:
1. safe for two full grown men to fish in for several hours
2. must be no longer than 16 feet.
3. must use a 10 hp longshaft motor.

does anyone know anything of Fishcat?

David Jost
"in mourning for the loss."

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Group -

It has now come time to put my Diablo out of her misery. the rot and
delamination has entered all panels to some extent and I now deem her
unrepairable (I know I have brought her back from the dead several
times, but I fear this is it). Tomorrow, I will take the circular
saw to her and make her fit for the dumpster.

I now have the dilemma of what to replace her with. Ideally I want a
boat to fish with and the Diablo had a nasty habit of blowing around
quite a bit, plus the lack of a splashwell on the transom appeared to
be a bit of a liability. I own a 10hp 2cycle, longshaft Johnson that
works great and obviously would like to put it on the next boat.

Requirements:
1. safe for two full grown men to fish in for several hours
2. must be no longer than 16 feet.
3. must use a 10 hp longshaft motor.

does anyone know anything of Fishcat?

David Jost
"in mourning for the loss."