Re: [bolger] Out of Print Books
David:
Sorry I couldn't write you back till now.
As one who quit the rolling stop, myself, I'll continue not
showing that study plan of the William Garden Motor Canoe,
however relevant to the threading re: dories.
Not that I think doing so would harm him. I believe the
paramount rights of boat designers must be in the boat
design- detailed plans, faithful rendering, freedom from
sharp types, etc. -not the publicity materials. It would be
unkind to build it from that drawing. There was no intention
for lifting Joel White's characteristic text.
But however I construct the innocent details of this, Jon
Wilson might be owing me a favor for example, I am at a loss
for a convincing principle that guides for more general
occurrences. "Slipping is Crash's Law."
I would not bother William Garden with such a trivial request.
That's where I am now. Thanks for the colloquy. Now, it's
back to boats!
Mark
David wrote:
Sorry I couldn't write you back till now.
As one who quit the rolling stop, myself, I'll continue not
showing that study plan of the William Garden Motor Canoe,
however relevant to the threading re: dories.
Not that I think doing so would harm him. I believe the
paramount rights of boat designers must be in the boat
design- detailed plans, faithful rendering, freedom from
sharp types, etc. -not the publicity materials. It would be
unkind to build it from that drawing. There was no intention
for lifting Joel White's characteristic text.
But however I construct the innocent details of this, Jon
Wilson might be owing me a favor for example, I am at a loss
for a convincing principle that guides for more general
occurrences. "Slipping is Crash's Law."
I would not bother William Garden with such a trivial request.
That's where I am now. Thanks for the colloquy. Now, it's
back to boats!
Mark
David wrote:
>
> Mark -
>
> Legally -- yes. It is illegal to scan and distribute copyrighted material, even a
> 10 year old magazine article. That being said, it is also illegal to not come to
> a complete stop at a stop sign, but there is a difference between not coming to a
> complete stop, and blatantly disregarding that stop sign and speeding through the
> intersection.
>
> A copyright holder is, by law, required to protect the copyright. If they do not,
> they can lose (in court) the right to damages. While a couple of photocopies
> passed around the local small boat messaabout might be an allowable "breach,"
> scanning and posting an article or entire book on the internet is a much more
> public act of infringement (and easily traceable). A copyright holder would be
> foolish to allow such an infringement to go uncontested.
>
> Of course, the copyright holder can always give permission for the use of the
> material, and can later rescind that permission, if a re-printing ever becomes a
> possibility. As long as the copyright notice and the notice that the work is
> "reprinted with permission" is stated, the copyright holder is legally protecting
> their copyright.
>
> Why doesn't someone just ask Mr. Bolger if he would allow this use of his work?
>
> David
>
> Mark Albanese wrote:
>
> > David,
> >
> > I hear ya, but Isn't this more honored in the breach than
> > anything, in this era of xerox and the VCR? <snip>But do you say scanning this
> > ten year old
> > Woodenboat for a study plan of William Garden's and sharing
> > is an error?
>
> > David wrote:
> > >
> > > I work in publishing <snip>
> > > As much as I would love to have such references online, the fact is that
> > > whether the book is in or out of print is irrelevent. If the work is still
> > > under copyright, then it is stealing to place even a portion of it
> > online<snip>
>
> > Unless the book is in the public
> > > domain, it is the property of another, and we have no right to reproduce it
> > > without permission.
>
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>
> Bolger rules:
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
> Why doesn't someone just ask Mr. Bolger if he would allow this use of hiswork?
>Basd on his/her posts to this list, I don't have the nerve! Any "friends of
> David
>
Phil" out there?
Don Hodges
Mark -
Legally -- yes. It is illegal to scan and distribute copyrighted material, even a
10 year old magazine article. That being said, it is also illegal to not come to
a complete stop at a stop sign, but there is a difference between not coming to a
complete stop, and blatantly disregarding that stop sign and speeding through the
intersection.
A copyright holder is, by law, required to protect the copyright. If they do not,
they can lose (in court) the right to damages. While a couple of photocopies
passed around the local small boat messaabout might be an allowable "breach,"
scanning and posting an article or entire book on the internet is a much more
public act of infringement (and easily traceable). A copyright holder would be
foolish to allow such an infringement to go uncontested.
Of course, the copyright holder can always give permission for the use of the
material, and can later rescind that permission, if a re-printing ever becomes a
possibility. As long as the copyright notice and the notice that the work is
"reprinted with permission" is stated, the copyright holder is legally protecting
their copyright.
Why doesn't someone just ask Mr. Bolger if he would allow this use of his work?
David
Mark Albanese wrote:
Legally -- yes. It is illegal to scan and distribute copyrighted material, even a
10 year old magazine article. That being said, it is also illegal to not come to
a complete stop at a stop sign, but there is a difference between not coming to a
complete stop, and blatantly disregarding that stop sign and speeding through the
intersection.
A copyright holder is, by law, required to protect the copyright. If they do not,
they can lose (in court) the right to damages. While a couple of photocopies
passed around the local small boat messaabout might be an allowable "breach,"
scanning and posting an article or entire book on the internet is a much more
public act of infringement (and easily traceable). A copyright holder would be
foolish to allow such an infringement to go uncontested.
Of course, the copyright holder can always give permission for the use of the
material, and can later rescind that permission, if a re-printing ever becomes a
possibility. As long as the copyright notice and the notice that the work is
"reprinted with permission" is stated, the copyright holder is legally protecting
their copyright.
Why doesn't someone just ask Mr. Bolger if he would allow this use of his work?
David
Mark Albanese wrote:
> David,
>
> I hear ya, but Isn't this more honored in the breach than
> anything, in this era of xerox and the VCR? <snip>But do you say scanning this
> ten year old
> Woodenboat for a study plan of William Garden's and sharing
> is an error?
> David wrote:
> >
> > I work in publishing <snip>
> > As much as I would love to have such references online, the fact is that
> > whether the book is in or out of print is irrelevent. If the work is still
> > under copyright, then it is stealing to place even a portion of it
> online<snip>
> Unless the book is in the public
> > domain, it is the property of another, and we have no right to reproduce it
> > without permission.
David,
I hear ya, but Isn't this more honored in the breach than
anything, in this era of xerox and the VCR? Though it's
rumored to be coming back, they gave up having a lock on
software as it proved more troublesome than worthy.
One wants to take care not to spoil the work of another by
over exposing it. But do you say scanning this ten year old
Woodenboat for a study plan of William Garden's and sharing
is an error?
Surprise he loses any sleep; we're only talking about
building it.
Mark
David wrote:
I hear ya, but Isn't this more honored in the breach than
anything, in this era of xerox and the VCR? Though it's
rumored to be coming back, they gave up having a lock on
software as it proved more troublesome than worthy.
One wants to take care not to spoil the work of another by
over exposing it. But do you say scanning this ten year old
Woodenboat for a study plan of William Garden's and sharing
is an error?
Surprise he loses any sleep; we're only talking about
building it.
Mark
David wrote:
>
> I work in publishing (magazines), so I know a little about copyrights.
>
> As much as I would love to have such references online, the fact is that
> whether the book is in or out of print is irrelevent. If the work is still
> under copyright, then it is stealing to place even a portion of it online
> (the only exception being the "fair use" clause, which allows for short
> quotes in reviews, as a reference in a research essay, and the like).
>
> There is no exceptions for "educational purposes," nor does the fact that no
> profit is being made make any difference. Unless the book is in the public
> domain, it is the property of another, and we have no right to reproduce it
> without permission.
>
> David
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules:
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
I work in publishing (magazines), so I know a little about copyrights.
As much as I would love to have such references online, the fact is that
whether the book is in or out of print is irrelevent. If the work is still
under copyright, then it is stealing to place even a portion of it online
(the only exception being the "fair use" clause, which allows for short
quotes in reviews, as a reference in a research essay, and the like).
There is no exceptions for "educational purposes," nor does the fact that no
profit is being made make any difference. Unless the book is in the public
domain, it is the property of another, and we have no right to reproduce it
without permission.
David
As much as I would love to have such references online, the fact is that
whether the book is in or out of print is irrelevent. If the work is still
under copyright, then it is stealing to place even a portion of it online
(the only exception being the "fair use" clause, which allows for short
quotes in reviews, as a reference in a research essay, and the like).
There is no exceptions for "educational purposes," nor does the fact that no
profit is being made make any difference. Unless the book is in the public
domain, it is the property of another, and we have no right to reproduce it
without permission.
David
ScanJetters:
"Out of print" is not the same as out of copyright. I think
the basic law for works came after 1978 is now life of the
author, plus 70 years. The rest are up between 2002 and 2047.
In a friendly world, I'd like to see a few pages out from
between some covers be under the law. But if we put the lot
up on a web page, somebody could get mad. A clip from
something current serves just as free publicity.
But '30-Odd Boats' is still very much under copyright. PB&F
would have to say themselves if they're happy with more than
contextual snatches of the book compiled for electronic
duplication. Look forward to them giving away mountains of
it soon themselves when 'Under Construction" constructs
itself in beta.
Leather's huge work can still be found in library's.
This is a big questions with many kinks, of course. There's
been a lot of fabulous work printed over the life of the
printing press. Odd as it sounds, the egroup must come
basically under private use.
I know that "Educational Purposes" covers a lot of crimes.
Your Rococo Marxist,
Mark
"Out of print" is not the same as out of copyright. I think
the basic law for works came after 1978 is now life of the
author, plus 70 years. The rest are up between 2002 and 2047.
In a friendly world, I'd like to see a few pages out from
between some covers be under the law. But if we put the lot
up on a web page, somebody could get mad. A clip from
something current serves just as free publicity.
But '30-Odd Boats' is still very much under copyright. PB&F
would have to say themselves if they're happy with more than
contextual snatches of the book compiled for electronic
duplication. Look forward to them giving away mountains of
it soon themselves when 'Under Construction" constructs
itself in beta.
Leather's huge work can still be found in library's.
This is a big questions with many kinks, of course. There's
been a lot of fabulous work printed over the life of the
printing press. Odd as it sounds, the egroup must come
basically under private use.
I know that "Educational Purposes" covers a lot of crimes.
Your Rococo Marxist,
Mark
Bill, Tim, and everyone,
I would also be happy to contribute. I have a few out of print books, including
_Thirty Odd Boats_. And I have a scanner (everybody needs a scanner)! I
only wish I knew how to use it well (duh).....
david
Bill Derby wrote:
I would also be happy to contribute. I have a few out of print books, including
_Thirty Odd Boats_. And I have a scanner (everybody needs a scanner)! I
only wish I knew how to use it well (duh).....
david
Bill Derby wrote:
> I have also found American Book Exchange to be wealth of information as
> well as books....
>
>http://www.abe.com
>
> Bill Derby
>
> (Tho, I too would be willing to particpate Tim........ :-) )
>
> T Webber wrote:
> >
> > List,
> >
> > I am a natural scrounger. I am also willing to pay someone for
> > something.
> > What I propose may be technically illegal, but it is within my morally
> > acceptable limits. Several have asked for books that are out of print.
> > I
> > too have looked for sever years for John Learther's book LugSails and
> > SpritSails. Others are looking for some of the older Payson and Bolger
> > Books. they are not for sale at "reasonable prices". The autohrs are
> > not
> > going to make another penny unless someone publishes another edition.
> > I
> > would propose that we create a library in ".pdf" format, chapters of
> > various of the "out of print publications" that are of specific
> > interest to
> > members. These ".pdf's" could be posted to the "files" section (VAULT)
> > of
> > the group. I feel that if each article were labelled as to its source,
> > we
> > would be giving credit where credit is due.
> >
> > Tim
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > [Image]
> >
> > [Image] [Image]
> > [Image]
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Bolger rules:
> > - no cursing
> > - stay on topic
> > - use punctuation
> > - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> > - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Bolger rules:
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.
Fellas,
I appreciate the effort to share the info, but before copy # one is made, one
should attempt to contact the publisher, author, or his heirs. I would hate so see
a copyright suit. Sorry for the downer here, but it has happened, and I'd hate to
see the list get blasted.
Jim
I appreciate the effort to share the info, but before copy # one is made, one
should attempt to contact the publisher, author, or his heirs. I would hate so see
a copyright suit. Sorry for the downer here, but it has happened, and I'd hate to
see the list get blasted.
Jim
I have also found American Book Exchange to be wealth of information as
well as books....
http://www.abe.com
Bill Derby
(Tho, I too would be willing to particpate Tim........ :-) )
T Webber wrote:
well as books....
http://www.abe.com
Bill Derby
(Tho, I too would be willing to particpate Tim........ :-) )
T Webber wrote:
>
> List,
>
> I am a natural scrounger. I am also willing to pay someone for
> something.
> What I propose may be technically illegal, but it is within my morally
> acceptable limits. Several have asked for books that are out of print.
> I
> too have looked for sever years for John Learther's book LugSails and
> SpritSails. Others are looking for some of the older Payson and Bolger
> Books. they are not for sale at "reasonable prices". The autohrs are
> not
> going to make another penny unless someone publishes another edition.
> I
> would propose that we create a library in ".pdf" format, chapters of
> various of the "out of print publications" that are of specific
> interest to
> members. These ".pdf's" could be posted to the "files" section (VAULT)
> of
> the group. I feel that if each article were labelled as to its source,
> we
> would be giving credit where credit is due.
>
> Tim
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> [Image]
>
> [Image] [Image]
> [Image]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bolger rules:
> - no cursing
> - stay on topic
> - use punctuation
> - add your comments at the TOP and SIGN your posts
> - add content: send "thanks!" and "ditto!" posts off-list.