Re: [bolger] Re:Cartopper review
Try using two sheets, like a jib. Put turning blocks for the sheets where
the "hooks" are. That's the way the spritsail on my skiff is rigged, and
it works great. You just let go of one sheet and grab the other when you
tack.
There are advantages to having a boom when the wind is aft, but a boom
adds complexity and doesn't really help when reaching or close-hauled. You
know why they call it a "boom" don't you? I saw an older fellow at our
local yacht club all kitted out to sail his Finn, with color matched
Spandex duds, PFD, sailing gloves, and even a helmet -- in case the boom
decided to live up to its name. ;o)
the "hooks" are. That's the way the spritsail on my skiff is rigged, and
it works great. You just let go of one sheet and grab the other when you
tack.
There are advantages to having a boom when the wind is aft, but a boom
adds complexity and doesn't really help when reaching or close-hauled. You
know why they call it a "boom" don't you? I saw an older fellow at our
local yacht club all kitted out to sail his Finn, with color matched
Spandex duds, PFD, sailing gloves, and even a helmet -- in case the boom
decided to live up to its name. ;o)
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:23:55 -0700, r wrote:
> I have the spritsail not the leg-o-mutton.
>
> The hooks are "designed" for the sail I have.
> ...
--
John <jkohnen@...>
History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in
times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant
to endure. <Thurgood Marshall>
I have the spritsail not the leg-o-mutton.
The hooks are "designed" for the sail I have. However, I think I have
found a rather simple solution after seeing this photo of Optis on
Sailing Anarchy
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2007/images/mine%27s%20the%20white%20one.jpg
I think I'm going to make myself a boom and quit complaining.
r
ps: I don't know how to add a link, but if you copy and paste...
The hooks are "designed" for the sail I have. However, I think I have
found a rather simple solution after seeing this photo of Optis on
Sailing Anarchy
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2007/images/mine%27s%20the%20white%20one.jpg
I think I'm going to make myself a boom and quit complaining.
r
ps: I don't know how to add a link, but if you copy and paste...
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, catboat15@... wrote:
>
> I have built and sailed, rowed and puttered around with a small
outboard and
> I was quite happy with the design. (In fact building another one
right now.)
>
> Forget about those hooks for looping the sheet. I think they were
added for
> the optional sail plan. What I did with mine was to add a block to
the clew at
> the end of the spirit boom. Added a rope horse across the transom.
The main
> sheet had a clip that hooked to the horse; up to the block then to
an eye
> bolt on top of the tiller where it is hinged to the rudder, this
allowed me to
> hold the sheet with the same hand as on the tiller. Since the
skipper is
> sitting on the bottom of the boat I added a rope across the hull
from side to
> side to grab and pull myself to the windward side when tacking.
The seat is
> used only for rowing and is loose to slide around on the floor
boards to adjust
> for the rowing position. The plans show two sets of "foot braces"
one set
> when rowing solo and the other set when loaded with a passenger..
> I have been dumped into the drink, but my own fault since I was
sitting on
> the sheet and could not let it fly when the wind came over the other
quarter
> (sailing on a lake where the wind goes funny directions through the
hills
> surrounding the lake.) When I sailed with a passenger they usually
sat opposite
> me and slightly towards the stern while I sat as close to the CB
trunk as I
> could without bumping into it when changing from one tack to the other.
> Sure not the most comfortable boat to either sail or row, but light
enough
> to carry on the luggage rack on my car, even can load it from a curb
to the top
> of a Jeep Cherokee (would not like to try to put it on top of a Ford
> Explorer!) Loads up on our Toyota Rav4 with little work and rides
fine up there.
>
> I don't see how you could sit high enough to be hit by a block at
the end of
> the spirit boom as the boom is well above your head in normal
seating on the
> bottom of the boat (I had a life float I sat on to spare my rear end
from the
> wood)
>
> The only real problem I has was that it was really difficult to see
to the
> lee side through that sail; almost had some collisions tacking back
to my site
> down a channel lined with yachts.
>
>
>
> Bolger, Payson Car topper
> 14-9 foot Swifty
> John Meacham
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the
all-new AOL at
>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I have built and sailed, rowed and puttered around with a small outboard and
I was quite happy with the design. (In fact building another one right now.)
Forget about those hooks for looping the sheet. I think they were added for
the optional sail plan. What I did with mine was to add a block to the clew at
the end of the spirit boom. Added a rope horse across the transom. The main
sheet had a clip that hooked to the horse; up to the block then to an eye
bolt on top of the tiller where it is hinged to the rudder, this allowed me to
hold the sheet with the same hand as on the tiller. Since the skipper is
sitting on the bottom of the boat I added a rope across the hull from side to
side to grab and pull myself to the windward side when tacking. The seat is
used only for rowing and is loose to slide around on the floor boards to adjust
for the rowing position. The plans show two sets of "foot braces" one set
when rowing solo and the other set when loaded with a passenger..
I have been dumped into the drink, but my own fault since I was sitting on
the sheet and could not let it fly when the wind came over the other quarter
(sailing on a lake where the wind goes funny directions through the hills
surrounding the lake.) When I sailed with a passenger they usually sat opposite
me and slightly towards the stern while I sat as close to the CB trunk as I
could without bumping into it when changing from one tack to the other.
Sure not the most comfortable boat to either sail or row, but light enough
to carry on the luggage rack on my car, even can load it from a curb to the top
of a Jeep Cherokee (would not like to try to put it on top of a Ford
Explorer!) Loads up on our Toyota Rav4 with little work and rides fine up there.
I don't see how you could sit high enough to be hit by a block at the end of
the spirit boom as the boom is well above your head in normal seating on the
bottom of the boat (I had a life float I sat on to spare my rear end from the
wood)
The only real problem I has was that it was really difficult to see to the
lee side through that sail; almost had some collisions tacking back to my site
down a channel lined with yachts.
Bolger, Payson Car topper
14-9 foot Swifty
John Meacham
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I was quite happy with the design. (In fact building another one right now.)
Forget about those hooks for looping the sheet. I think they were added for
the optional sail plan. What I did with mine was to add a block to the clew at
the end of the spirit boom. Added a rope horse across the transom. The main
sheet had a clip that hooked to the horse; up to the block then to an eye
bolt on top of the tiller where it is hinged to the rudder, this allowed me to
hold the sheet with the same hand as on the tiller. Since the skipper is
sitting on the bottom of the boat I added a rope across the hull from side to
side to grab and pull myself to the windward side when tacking. The seat is
used only for rowing and is loose to slide around on the floor boards to adjust
for the rowing position. The plans show two sets of "foot braces" one set
when rowing solo and the other set when loaded with a passenger..
I have been dumped into the drink, but my own fault since I was sitting on
the sheet and could not let it fly when the wind came over the other quarter
(sailing on a lake where the wind goes funny directions through the hills
surrounding the lake.) When I sailed with a passenger they usually sat opposite
me and slightly towards the stern while I sat as close to the CB trunk as I
could without bumping into it when changing from one tack to the other.
Sure not the most comfortable boat to either sail or row, but light enough
to carry on the luggage rack on my car, even can load it from a curb to the top
of a Jeep Cherokee (would not like to try to put it on top of a Ford
Explorer!) Loads up on our Toyota Rav4 with little work and rides fine up there.
I don't see how you could sit high enough to be hit by a block at the end of
the spirit boom as the boom is well above your head in normal seating on the
bottom of the boat (I had a life float I sat on to spare my rear end from the
wood)
The only real problem I has was that it was really difficult to see to the
lee side through that sail; almost had some collisions tacking back to my site
down a channel lined with yachts.
Bolger, Payson Car topper
14-9 foot Swifty
John Meacham
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Go to the CA Delta Messabout photo group;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CA_Delta_Messabout/
Look in the photo section under the April 2004 folder and see photos of two Cartoppers under sail. Early spring Delta conditions, cold water, cool strong blustery breeze, a narrow channel, and a current running as much as four knots. John O'Neil is the builder of both and sailor of one. Quite a few people either went for a ride, row or solo sail in John's Cartopper that day. They seemed to be having a blast, (I took the photos from my Microtrawler), and I don't recall any problems with seating or sailing. Of course, I can say for sure John is a much better sailor than I ever will be... He was full of stories of sailing in Sasuin Bay (spelling?), if you know that bit of the Bay waters you know it's challenging for a small daysailer. He also took lots of his time to explain the set-up on his boat to anyone interested.
If you post a message on that site perhaps John will reply. He lives somewhere in striking distance of you. Maybe a messabout at Berryessa would give you a chance to compare gear and sailing techniques. I don't think John reads the Bolger Group. He also posted at least one article with photos about his Cartopper set-up on Duckworks. Have a look there.
Then again, if Cartopper is not the boat for you, let me know if you are interested in selling, or maybe trading? Any interest in a very nicely built, stitch and glued Teal?
Rick
chebacco_30 <chebacco_30@...> wrote: Hi Bruce,
My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the "leg-o-mutton" sail. I found
Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without
grave discomfort. I thought the Cartopper would be merely shortened
version. Maybe I need to build another Gypsy.
Romayne
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman"
wrote:
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CA_Delta_Messabout/
Look in the photo section under the April 2004 folder and see photos of two Cartoppers under sail. Early spring Delta conditions, cold water, cool strong blustery breeze, a narrow channel, and a current running as much as four knots. John O'Neil is the builder of both and sailor of one. Quite a few people either went for a ride, row or solo sail in John's Cartopper that day. They seemed to be having a blast, (I took the photos from my Microtrawler), and I don't recall any problems with seating or sailing. Of course, I can say for sure John is a much better sailor than I ever will be... He was full of stories of sailing in Sasuin Bay (spelling?), if you know that bit of the Bay waters you know it's challenging for a small daysailer. He also took lots of his time to explain the set-up on his boat to anyone interested.
If you post a message on that site perhaps John will reply. He lives somewhere in striking distance of you. Maybe a messabout at Berryessa would give you a chance to compare gear and sailing techniques. I don't think John reads the Bolger Group. He also posted at least one article with photos about his Cartopper set-up on Duckworks. Have a look there.
Then again, if Cartopper is not the boat for you, let me know if you are interested in selling, or maybe trading? Any interest in a very nicely built, stitch and glued Teal?
Rick
chebacco_30 <chebacco_30@...> wrote: Hi Bruce,
My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the "leg-o-mutton" sail. I found
Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without
grave discomfort. I thought the Cartopper would be merely shortened
version. Maybe I need to build another Gypsy.
Romayne
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman"
wrote:
>Bolger rules!!!
> On 9/4/07, chebacco_30 wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
> > sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
> > Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
> > hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
> > suggestions are welcome.
>
> Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds
> there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to
> shore. Plus is sounds like you experienced an especially strong wind
> day.
>
> On the bright side, at least the water was warm in case you get wet
> dumping that boat. I don't know how to make a narrow hard chine boat
> not be tiddly as it goes from the bottom panel to the chine panel.
> You and I are both pretty big men, compared with that light weight
> hull.
>
> To me, the Cartopper has always seemed similar to the Gypsy. You
> might consider adding side facing 'seats' like the Gypsy, so that you
> can quickly scoot your butt from centerline out to windward, like with
> a Gypsy.
>
> Here is a link to the 1987 Dan Segal SBJ writeup 'Sailing Gypsy' which
> might be interesting.
>
>http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1323064464/
>
- NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
- no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming, respamming, or flogging dead horses
- stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed, thanks, Fred' posts
- Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts, and snip away
- Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209, Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
- Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
- Open discussion:bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you consider your Cartopper drastically flawed, you might explore
cutting out the centerboard trunk, and go with a leeboard which would
fix your 'trim' while rowing two problem.
cutting out the centerboard trunk, and go with a leeboard which would
fix your 'trim' while rowing two problem.
Hi Bruce,
My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the "leg-o-mutton" sail. I found
Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without
grave discomfort. I thought the Cartopper would be merely shortened
version. Maybe I need to build another Gypsy.
Romayne
My first BolgerBuild was a Gypsy with the "leg-o-mutton" sail. I found
Gypsy a rather comfortable boat - I often sailed it all day without
grave discomfort. I thought the Cartopper would be merely shortened
version. Maybe I need to build another Gypsy.
Romayne
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> On 9/4/07, chebacco_30 <chebacco_30@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
> > sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
> > Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
> > hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
> > suggestions are welcome.
>
> Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds
> there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to
> shore. Plus is sounds like you experienced an especially strong wind
> day.
>
> On the bright side, at least the water was warm in case you get wet
> dumping that boat. I don't know how to make a narrow hard chine boat
> not be tiddly as it goes from the bottom panel to the chine panel.
> You and I are both pretty big men, compared with that light weight
> hull.
>
> To me, the Cartopper has always seemed similar to the Gypsy. You
> might consider adding side facing 'seats' like the Gypsy, so that you
> can quickly scoot your butt from centerline out to windward, like with
> a Gypsy.
>
> Here is a link to the 1987 Dan Segal SBJ writeup 'Sailing Gypsy' which
> might be interesting.
>
>http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1323064464/
>
On 9/4/07, chebacco_30 <chebacco_30@...> wrote:
there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to
shore. Plus is sounds like you experienced an especially strong wind
day.
On the bright side, at least the water was warm in case you get wet
dumping that boat. I don't know how to make a narrow hard chine boat
not be tiddly as it goes from the bottom panel to the chine panel.
You and I are both pretty big men, compared with that light weight
hull.
To me, the Cartopper has always seemed similar to the Gypsy. You
might consider adding side facing 'seats' like the Gypsy, so that you
can quickly scoot your butt from centerline out to windward, like with
a Gypsy.
Here is a link to the 1987 Dan Segal SBJ writeup 'Sailing Gypsy' which
might be interesting.
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1323064464/
>Sorry to hear of your problems. I know Berryessa, and it the winds
>
> I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
> sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
> Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
> hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
> suggestions are welcome.
there can be 180 degrees of variable and gusty especially close to
shore. Plus is sounds like you experienced an especially strong wind
day.
On the bright side, at least the water was warm in case you get wet
dumping that boat. I don't know how to make a narrow hard chine boat
not be tiddly as it goes from the bottom panel to the chine panel.
You and I are both pretty big men, compared with that light weight
hull.
To me, the Cartopper has always seemed similar to the Gypsy. You
might consider adding side facing 'seats' like the Gypsy, so that you
can quickly scoot your butt from centerline out to windward, like with
a Gypsy.
Here is a link to the 1987 Dan Segal SBJ writeup 'Sailing Gypsy' which
might be interesting.
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1323064464/
I have a fairly new Cartopper which I have rowed a few times and
sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
suggestions are welcome.
My gripes:
1. The boat rows nicely with just myself in it. With a passenger there
is no way to trim the boat properly. If the passenger sits in the
stern the boat takes a decided bow-up posture. The rower cannot sit
any further forward because of the centerboard case. If the passenger
sits forward then the boat has a decided bow-down posture. The rower
cannot move aft to balance the boat as there is no room for his legs.
2. Sailing is very uncomfortable. There is no position that I have
found where I can sit holding the tiller and sheet without having my
tiller arm about three-quarters twisted behind my back. One is forced
to sit in the center of the boat because the boat is so tender. I sat
for a while with my back against the windward gunwale which seemed
quite comfy until the wind died resulting in a near capsize to
windward. The only position I have found that eliminates the
arm-twisting is facing aft which results in neck-twisting to see
forward. Pick your poison.
3. I have the sprit sail which is loose-footed. The sheet is led aft
from the clew to wooden hooks on the gunwale. When close-hauled the
force on the sheet is so high that I am barely able to maintain my
grip - I'll add here that I am a 2 meters tall, weigh 100 kg and work
with my hands. It is beyond me how the average person would be able to
maintain the tension on the sheet that is necessary. I thought of
putting a purchase on the sheet but that would entail having a block
on the clew - no way am I going to risk getting slapped in the face
with that.
4. Tacking is always messy. When you come about with this boat you
have to move the sheet to the new leeward hook. The hooks are mounted
just forward of the transom and are not within reach from the proper
seating position. So, you have to clamber aft to move sheet while the
clew of the sail is wildly whipping back and forth. Most times it took
a couple of tries to do this as the whipping sail would often flip the
sheet off the hook.
Romayne
sailed a few times. Yesterday I sailed it for 3 hours or so on Lake
Berryessa. I am quite disappointed with this design and would like to
hear from others that have experience with this boat. Any and all
suggestions are welcome.
My gripes:
1. The boat rows nicely with just myself in it. With a passenger there
is no way to trim the boat properly. If the passenger sits in the
stern the boat takes a decided bow-up posture. The rower cannot sit
any further forward because of the centerboard case. If the passenger
sits forward then the boat has a decided bow-down posture. The rower
cannot move aft to balance the boat as there is no room for his legs.
2. Sailing is very uncomfortable. There is no position that I have
found where I can sit holding the tiller and sheet without having my
tiller arm about three-quarters twisted behind my back. One is forced
to sit in the center of the boat because the boat is so tender. I sat
for a while with my back against the windward gunwale which seemed
quite comfy until the wind died resulting in a near capsize to
windward. The only position I have found that eliminates the
arm-twisting is facing aft which results in neck-twisting to see
forward. Pick your poison.
3. I have the sprit sail which is loose-footed. The sheet is led aft
from the clew to wooden hooks on the gunwale. When close-hauled the
force on the sheet is so high that I am barely able to maintain my
grip - I'll add here that I am a 2 meters tall, weigh 100 kg and work
with my hands. It is beyond me how the average person would be able to
maintain the tension on the sheet that is necessary. I thought of
putting a purchase on the sheet but that would entail having a block
on the clew - no way am I going to risk getting slapped in the face
with that.
4. Tacking is always messy. When you come about with this boat you
have to move the sheet to the new leeward hook. The hooks are mounted
just forward of the transom and are not within reach from the proper
seating position. So, you have to clamber aft to move sheet while the
clew of the sail is wildly whipping back and forth. Most times it took
a couple of tries to do this as the whipping sail would often flip the
sheet off the hook.
Romayne