Re: material cost estimate birdwatcher I or II
Hi Clyde,
says the design is #471.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> I think Summer Ease is newer than the books. I bought the planssometime
> before it came out in MAIB. I don't have them handy to look at thewas
> design number but at the time I got the impression from PCB that it
> recent. ClydeBy chance I have the building key in my briefcase this morning and it
says the design is #471.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
I think Summer Ease is newer than the books. I bought the plans sometime
before it came out in MAIB. I don't have them handy to look at the
design number but at the time I got the impression from PCB that it was
recent. Clyde
Bruce Hallman wrote:
before it came out in MAIB. I don't have them handy to look at the
design number but at the time I got the impression from PCB that it was
recent. Clyde
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> On 9/7/07, Harry James <welshman@...[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> <mailto:welshman%40ptialaska.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > I couldn't find it in any of the five books, looked through twice, would
> > it be under another name?
> >
>
> No, it is called Summer Ease. Unfortunately my notes on Summer Ease
> are missing, and I don't actually recall for sure if it is in a book.
> I must be confused and the MAIB article is it. My notes only include
> the drawing, and no write-up. I would like to read the write-up.
>
>
I added an Excel file to the File section of this list, "Bolger All
Book Index". It has the designs in the Bolger books listed. There is
a page by boat name, one by length, one arranged by book, and the last
by brief description. Sorry there is no "Summer Ease" listed.
See:
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EPThRpXk8FPhJ_QcSkGNMLv22aAxZ4N215q0RuOxIvKghg0zOYWDmpZxfKGnSRpD4ULP9MhGRtxWIqIXYKcdoXYGxHI6ZQ/Bolger%20all%20book%20index.xls
Book Index". It has the designs in the Bolger books listed. There is
a page by boat name, one by length, one arranged by book, and the last
by brief description. Sorry there is no "Summer Ease" listed.
See:
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EPThRpXk8FPhJ_QcSkGNMLv22aAxZ4N215q0RuOxIvKghg0zOYWDmpZxfKGnSRpD4ULP9MhGRtxWIqIXYKcdoXYGxHI6ZQ/Bolger%20all%20book%20index.xls
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Hallman" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> On 9/7/07, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > I couldn't find it in any of the five books, looked through
twice, would
> > it be under another name?
> >
>
> No, it is called Summer Ease. Unfortunately my notes on Summer Ease
> are missing, and I don't actually recall for sure if it is in a book.
> I must be confused and the MAIB article is it. My notes only include
> the drawing, and no write-up. I would like to read the write-up.
>
There was an article in MAIB 1 Apr 1999-- I have it if you don't if you
want a scan.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
want a scan.
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> On 9/7/07, Chris Brunette <gaff_rigged72@...> wrote:
>
>
>> Bruce, thanks too for the thoughts on Summer Ease. Do you know of any
>> posted photos / study plans? A quick google search didn't help me out.
>> Chris
>>
>
> Someone help me please to remember which Bolger book has the chapter
> on Summer Ease. I am thinking it was Small Boats. And, no I don't
> think that one was ever built (so far), which is surprising because it
> would be an easy build to get a great boat.
>
> Those old Bolger books are hard to purchase, but pretty easy to find
> in the library through 'interlibrary loan', ask your local librarian.
>
>
>
>
Bruce
I couldn't find it in any of the five books, looked through twice, would
it be under another name?
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
I couldn't find it in any of the five books, looked through twice, would
it be under another name?
HJ
Bruce Hallman wrote:
> On 9/7/07, Chris Brunette <gaff_rigged72@...> wrote:
>
>
>> Bruce, thanks too for the thoughts on Summer Ease. Do you know of any
>> posted photos / study plans? A quick google search didn't help me out.
>> Chris
>>
>
> Someone help me please to remember which Bolger book has the chapter
> on Summer Ease. I am thinking it was Small Boats. And, no I don't
> think that one was ever built (so far), which is surprising because it
> would be an easy build to get a great boat.
>
> Those old Bolger books are hard to purchase, but pretty easy to find
> in the library through 'interlibrary loan', ask your local librarian.
>
>
>
On 9/7/07, Harry James <welshman@...> wrote:
are missing, and I don't actually recall for sure if it is in a book.
I must be confused and the MAIB article is it. My notes only include
the drawing, and no write-up. I would like to read the write-up.
>No, it is called Summer Ease. Unfortunately my notes on Summer Ease
> Bruce
>
> I couldn't find it in any of the five books, looked through twice, would
> it be under another name?
>
are missing, and I don't actually recall for sure if it is in a book.
I must be confused and the MAIB article is it. My notes only include
the drawing, and no write-up. I would like to read the write-up.
On 9/7/07, Chris Brunette <gaff_rigged72@...> wrote:
on Summer Ease. I am thinking it was Small Boats. And, no I don't
think that one was ever built (so far), which is surprising because it
would be an easy build to get a great boat.
Those old Bolger books are hard to purchase, but pretty easy to find
in the library through 'interlibrary loan', ask your local librarian.
> Bruce, thanks too for the thoughts on Summer Ease. Do you know of anySomeone help me please to remember which Bolger book has the chapter
> posted photos / study plans? A quick google search didn't help me out.
> Chris
on Summer Ease. I am thinking it was Small Boats. And, no I don't
think that one was ever built (so far), which is surprising because it
would be an easy build to get a great boat.
Those old Bolger books are hard to purchase, but pretty easy to find
in the library through 'interlibrary loan', ask your local librarian.
Thanks Doug, Kathie and Rex for the estimates, very helpful.
Bruce, thanks too for the thoughts on Summer Ease. Do you know of any
posted photos / study plans? A quick google search didn't help me out.
Chris
Bruce, thanks too for the thoughts on Summer Ease. Do you know of any
posted photos / study plans? A quick google search didn't help me out.
Chris
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "oarmandt" <oarman89@...> wrote:
>
> My Birdwatcher was built for $5000 in materials in 2005. That
> includes $800 for solent lug mainsail and small reacher. My boat is
> mostly Douglas Fir marine plywood, but the sides are a sandwich of
4mm
> occume bread and 3/4" foam filling. That ran costs up a bit. I
> glassed everything, using lots of Raka epoxy. This figure does not
> include the trailer. I spent about $200 on an old powerboat trailer
> and at least that much again making it right. Mine is true to the
> original concept - oar auxiliary only.
>
> I did not keep track of hours, but I got mine done in 11 months
> working evenings and weekends. It was not an all-consuming effort
to
> get it done that fast. It might have been 800 hours.
>
> Doug
>
>
David,
They are a plastic nail that is driven in by an airgun. They are
manufactured by Utility Composites, raptor nails and staples is the
name they go under, web link is
http://www.raptornails.com/english/firstframe.html
They do not damage your edged tools. Can be left in, sanded over,
won't rust. Handy for some purposes, hold well, but don't have the
shear strength of a metal nail. Save your clench nails, copper prices
getting higher all the time. Its like money in the bank.
Rex
They are a plastic nail that is driven in by an airgun. They are
manufactured by Utility Composites, raptor nails and staples is the
name they go under, web link is
http://www.raptornails.com/english/firstframe.html
They do not damage your edged tools. Can be left in, sanded over,
won't rust. Handy for some purposes, hold well, but don't have the
shear strength of a metal nail. Save your clench nails, copper prices
getting higher all the time. Its like money in the bank.
Rex
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "dnjost" <davidjost@...> wrote:
>
> Rex -
>
> Nice work so far. I have not used polymer nails before. What are
> these and how do you use them? (I still have a few bags of copper
> clench nails lying around from the last few projects).
>
> David Jost
>
Rex -
Nice work so far. I have not used polymer nails before. What are
these and how do you use them? (I still have a few bags of copper
clench nails lying around from the last few projects).
David Jost
Nice work so far. I have not used polymer nails before. What are
these and how do you use them? (I still have a few bags of copper
clench nails lying around from the last few projects).
David Jost
Chris,
In answer to your question. We are building a Birdwatcher II.
We haven't added all the numbers up yet (reluctant to do so). We
anticipate spending a little over 6 grand. This does not include
motor, solar panels, batteries, etc. Price does include tent to build
inside, surface to build on, sail kit from Sailrite, Philippine
mahogany frames, chines, shear(100 board feet), meranti bs1088 ply(10
sheets 12 mm, 10 sheets 6mm, 4 sheets 4mm),11 gallons of epoxy,
fiberglass, 3 4 by 8 sheets of lexan, paint and steel for board and
misc hardware,safety and application items. My wife and I have put in
a little over 350 hours apiece (700 hours total), we have a hull,
centerboard 90% comp, ctrbrd case complete, rear deck 75%, rudder and
workings 75%.
Progress can be seen at :
http://homepage.mac.com/rkpayneboats/Birdwatcher2
There are several updates showing progress. Will be posting our daily
log of hours and activity in the next week.
We intend to sail it sometime during this calendar year.
Rex and Kathie
In answer to your question. We are building a Birdwatcher II.
We haven't added all the numbers up yet (reluctant to do so). We
anticipate spending a little over 6 grand. This does not include
motor, solar panels, batteries, etc. Price does include tent to build
inside, surface to build on, sail kit from Sailrite, Philippine
mahogany frames, chines, shear(100 board feet), meranti bs1088 ply(10
sheets 12 mm, 10 sheets 6mm, 4 sheets 4mm),11 gallons of epoxy,
fiberglass, 3 4 by 8 sheets of lexan, paint and steel for board and
misc hardware,safety and application items. My wife and I have put in
a little over 350 hours apiece (700 hours total), we have a hull,
centerboard 90% comp, ctrbrd case complete, rear deck 75%, rudder and
workings 75%.
Progress can be seen at :
http://homepage.mac.com/rkpayneboats/Birdwatcher2
There are several updates showing progress. Will be posting our daily
log of hours and activity in the next week.
We intend to sail it sometime during this calendar year.
Rex and Kathie
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Brunette" <gaff_rigged72@...> wrote:
I recently saw a birdwatcher on bolger4sale for about $8K. I'm in the
consideration phase of a building project and would like some input on
material costs from experienced builders
My Birdwatcher was built for $5000 in materials in 2005. That
includes $800 for solent lug mainsail and small reacher. My boat is
mostly Douglas Fir marine plywood, but the sides are a sandwich of 4mm
occume bread and 3/4" foam filling. That ran costs up a bit. I
glassed everything, using lots of Raka epoxy. This figure does not
include the trailer. I spent about $200 on an old powerboat trailer
and at least that much again making it right. Mine is true to the
original concept - oar auxiliary only.
I did not keep track of hours, but I got mine done in 11 months
working evenings and weekends. It was not an all-consuming effort to
get it done that fast. It might have been 800 hours.
Doug
includes $800 for solent lug mainsail and small reacher. My boat is
mostly Douglas Fir marine plywood, but the sides are a sandwich of 4mm
occume bread and 3/4" foam filling. That ran costs up a bit. I
glassed everything, using lots of Raka epoxy. This figure does not
include the trailer. I spent about $200 on an old powerboat trailer
and at least that much again making it right. Mine is true to the
original concept - oar auxiliary only.
I did not keep track of hours, but I got mine done in 11 months
working evenings and weekends. It was not an all-consuming effort to
get it done that fast. It might have been 800 hours.
Doug
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Brunette" <gaff_rigged72@...> wrote:
>
> I recently saw a birdwatcher on bolger4sale for about $8K. I'm in the
> consideration phase of a building project and would like some input on
> material costs from experienced builders of these (or similar) projects
> to help me make a build/buy used decision, and to evaluate how good a
> deal is when I see it. I've also heard that labor time is approximately
> 1000-1500 hours for a first time builder. Is this in the ballpark?
>
> Many Thanks
> chris b
> (I'm in MA if it matters)
>
On 9/5/07, adventures_in_astrophotography <jon@...> wrote:
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1332579728/
....shows expanded panel layout, on a 1 foot grid
With practice, I think, I have learned how to eyeball a boat hull to
within an inch or so, working from the line drawings in the book.
> could see your way clear to forward me the panel layouts. Hey, how'dThis image...
> you do that without the offsets, anyway, or do you have the plans, too?
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1332579728/
....shows expanded panel layout, on a 1 foot grid
With practice, I think, I have learned how to eyeball a boat hull to
within an inch or so, working from the line drawings in the book.
Hi Bruce,
bottom, to make the twist up forward. I need to double check that.
Since I'm a legitimate owner of plans for this design, perhaps you
could see your way clear to forward me the panel layouts. Hey, how'd
you do that without the offsets, anyway, or do you have the plans, too?
effort of the main moves forward with reefing, such that the combined
CLE remains longitudinally fixed, more or less. The lug or gaff would
lose some of this advantage, but having a shorter mast would make
things much easier at the ramp. This particluar boat may have a main
halyard.
in, I might have to think about a cold beverage as well. Our Light
Schooner doesn't allow such relaxation. I really like the motor
installation on this boat, too - no fiddling with a motor well plug.
BTW, PCB says to his knowledge nobody has built one of these, so one
of us could be the first.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> I *have* laid it all out in FreeShip, to the point of expanded panelsnot,
> and stitch + glue. Looks like an easy boat, both to build and to
> trailer and sail. I suspect that the curvy portion of the forward
> bottom can be achieved with twisting panels, like with Topaz. If
> it would be quick work with a small amount of cold molding.If I recall, the building key specifies two layers of 1/4" for the
bottom, to make the twist up forward. I need to double check that.
Since I'm a legitimate owner of plans for this design, perhaps you
could see your way clear to forward me the panel layouts. Hey, how'd
you do that without the offsets, anyway, or do you have the plans, too?
> I think Bolger's favored the sprit sails because of the ultraThat and the biggest advantage, according to PCB - the center of
> simplicity. No top yard, halyards, topping lifts, etc..
effort of the main moves forward with reefing, such that the combined
CLE remains longitudinally fixed, more or less. The lug or gaff would
lose some of this advantage, but having a shorter mast would make
things much easier at the ramp. This particluar boat may have a main
halyard.
> Wow, I look at those 7 foot long cockpit seats, sitting there leaningAnd with all that ballast to ease my mind in the fluky winds we sail
> back with you feet up, 'summer ease' is right!
in, I might have to think about a cold beverage as well. Our Light
Schooner doesn't allow such relaxation. I really like the motor
installation on this boat, too - no fiddling with a motor well plug.
BTW, PCB says to his knowledge nobody has built one of these, so one
of us could be the first.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
On 9/5/07, adventures_in_astrophotography <jon@...> wrote:
and stitch + glue. Looks like an easy boat, both to build and to
trailer and sail. I suspect that the curvy portion of the forward
bottom can be achieved with twisting panels, like with Topaz. If not,
it would be quick work with a small amount of cold molding.
simplicity. No top yard, halyards, topping lifts, etc..
Stepping the mizzen mast first would be easy, and stepping main mast
would be done with the help of a line and pulley lashed to the top of
the mizzen mast.
The drain-able water ballast would allow her to be hauled around with
an old compact car.
Wow, I look at those 7 foot long cockpit seats, sitting there leaning
back with you feet up, 'summer ease' is right!
> necessarily need for BW or Micro. If you laid it all out inI *have* laid it all out in FreeShip, to the point of expanded panels
> FreeShip first, you could probably do away with the strong back and
> use a couple of sturdy sawhorses.
and stitch + glue. Looks like an easy boat, both to build and to
trailer and sail. I suspect that the curvy portion of the forward
bottom can be achieved with twisting panels, like with Topaz. If not,
it would be quick work with a small amount of cold molding.
> I'd replace the mainsail with aI think Bolger's favored the sprit sails because of the ultra
> balanced lug or gaff, too, in order to have a much shorter mast.
simplicity. No top yard, halyards, topping lifts, etc..
Stepping the mizzen mast first would be easy, and stepping main mast
would be done with the help of a line and pulley lashed to the top of
the mizzen mast.
The drain-able water ballast would allow her to be hauled around with
an old compact car.
Wow, I look at those 7 foot long cockpit seats, sitting there leaning
back with you feet up, 'summer ease' is right!
Hi Bruce,
If building from the plans only, Summer Ease must be lofted, as the
panels and bulkheads are not laid out for prefabrication. Also, the
hull is intended to be built on a strongback, something you don't
necessarily need for BW or Micro. If you laid it all out in
FreeShip first, you could probably do away with the strong back and
use a couple of sturdy sawhorses.
I have delusions of building Summer Ease with most or all of the
water replaced with batteries for an electric outboard. I could
accept the extra few hundred pounds at the ramp with my pickup, but
having quiet power would be the real attraction. Other
modifications to make the volumes forward, aft, and under the seats
watertight would probably be more than enough to overcome the weight
of the batteries should she flood. I'd replace the mainsail with a
balanced lug or gaff, too, in order to have a much shorter mast.
Another entry on the endless list of boats I'd like to build.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
> If what you want is no more than a comfortable nice easy day sail,I
> see no better choice than the water ballasted 23'6" cat yawl SummerQuit posting those renderings - they're far too seductive!
> Ease. It looks to me just about as easy build as a Bolger Micro.
If building from the plans only, Summer Ease must be lofted, as the
panels and bulkheads are not laid out for prefabrication. Also, the
hull is intended to be built on a strongback, something you don't
necessarily need for BW or Micro. If you laid it all out in
FreeShip first, you could probably do away with the strong back and
use a couple of sturdy sawhorses.
I have delusions of building Summer Ease with most or all of the
water replaced with batteries for an electric outboard. I could
accept the extra few hundred pounds at the ramp with my pickup, but
having quiet power would be the real attraction. Other
modifications to make the volumes forward, aft, and under the seats
watertight would probably be more than enough to overcome the weight
of the batteries should she flood. I'd replace the mainsail with a
balanced lug or gaff, too, in order to have a much shorter mast.
Another entry on the endless list of boats I'd like to build.
Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm
http://flickr.com/photos/hallman/1331049778/
If what you want is no more than a comfortable nice easy day sail, I
see no better choice than the water ballasted 23'6" cat yawl Summer
Ease. It looks to me just about as easy build as a Bolger Micro.
If what you want is no more than a comfortable nice easy day sail, I
see no better choice than the water ballasted 23'6" cat yawl Summer
Ease. It looks to me just about as easy build as a Bolger Micro.
I recently saw a birdwatcher on bolger4sale for about $8K. I'm in the
consideration phase of a building project and would like some input on
material costs from experienced builders of these (or similar) projects
to help me make a build/buy used decision, and to evaluate how good a
deal is when I see it. I've also heard that labor time is approximately
1000-1500 hours for a first time builder. Is this in the ballpark?
Many Thanks
chris b
(I'm in MA if it matters)
consideration phase of a building project and would like some input on
material costs from experienced builders of these (or similar) projects
to help me make a build/buy used decision, and to evaluate how good a
deal is when I see it. I've also heard that labor time is approximately
1000-1500 hours for a first time builder. Is this in the ballpark?
Many Thanks
chris b
(I'm in MA if it matters)