Re: One design proa class in Surfside, Texas
This examines the rig problems. A similar rig without battens gave good
results on a proa in Brisbane in the 90's - kind of like a tall double
luff spinnaker flown from a leeward canted mast. Very fast - the
variable water ballasted ama also had a variable lifting foil.
What's wrong with the Bolger twin rudder arrangement with bow steering?
Lots of boats including various multis and proas use surface piercing
foils.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
results on a proa in Brisbane in the 90's - kind of like a tall double
luff spinnaker flown from a leeward canted mast. Very fast - the
variable water ballasted ama also had a variable lifting foil.
What's wrong with the Bolger twin rudder arrangement with bow steering?
Lots of boats including various multis and proas use surface piercing
foils.
Graeme
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "graeme19121984" <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
>
>http://proafile.com/view/weblog/comments/rig_options_bolger/
http://proafile.com/view/weblog/comments/rig_options_bolger/
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, Kevin O'Neill <K_S_ONeill@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I think the Bolger 20' proa is a very nice hull, but
> the rudders look unworkable to me, and I have a bit of
> experience, I've built and tested five or six
> different rudder arrangements over the last five
> years. The rig has a very bad reputation. John
> Dalziel, the guy who founded the proa_file yahoo
> group, build a big Bolger sail for his 18' proa. It
> was a menace, very dangerous to tack. Recently Skip
> Johston in Houston built a Bolger sail for his AC/DC
> $50 proa, but when he wanted to go up to a bigger boat
> he changed over to a crab claw, wisely I think.
>
> I don't see how Bolger could have the bugs worked out
> since I don't think he's ever built the boat. I'm not
> picking on him, I think it was a neat idea and a very
> original concept for its day, but I don't think it's a
> workable design for a one design class; for one thing,
> not only has he not built it, I'm not sure anyone has
> built and sailed it as drawn.
>
I really do like the
> hull, though, I often say I wish I'd built a Bolger
> style main hull for my 21' proa, rather than the
> tortured 1/8" plywood and glass hull I did build. The
> Bolger hull would have been easier and cheaper to
> build, shallower draft, likely just as fast in most
> conditions, and much tougher when I hit something, as
> I am wont to do.
Hi
I think the Bolger 20' proa is a very nice hull, but
the rudders look unworkable to me, and I have a bit of
experience, I've built and tested five or six
different rudder arrangements over the last five
years. The rig has a very bad reputation. John
Dalziel, the guy who founded the proa_file yahoo
group, build a big Bolger sail for his 18' proa. It
was a menace, very dangerous to tack. Recently Skip
Johston in Houston built a Bolger sail for his AC/DC
$50 proa, but when he wanted to go up to a bigger boat
he changed over to a crab claw, wisely I think.
I don't see how Bolger could have the bugs worked out
since I don't think he's ever built the boat. I'm not
picking on him, I think it was a neat idea and a very
original concept for its day, but I don't think it's a
workable design for a one design class; for one thing,
not only has he not built it, I'm not sure anyone has
built and sailed it as drawn. I really do like the
hull, though, I often say I wish I'd built a Bolger
style main hull for my 21' proa, rather than the
tortured 1/8" plywood and glass hull I did build. The
Bolger hull would have been easier and cheaper to
build, shallower draft, likely just as fast in most
conditions, and much tougher when I hit something, as
I am wont to do.
The idea of timed races on various bodies of water is
a great one. I'd still like someone locally to race
in person, though!
best
K O'N
--- graeme19121984 <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
I think the Bolger 20' proa is a very nice hull, but
the rudders look unworkable to me, and I have a bit of
experience, I've built and tested five or six
different rudder arrangements over the last five
years. The rig has a very bad reputation. John
Dalziel, the guy who founded the proa_file yahoo
group, build a big Bolger sail for his 18' proa. It
was a menace, very dangerous to tack. Recently Skip
Johston in Houston built a Bolger sail for his AC/DC
$50 proa, but when he wanted to go up to a bigger boat
he changed over to a crab claw, wisely I think.
I don't see how Bolger could have the bugs worked out
since I don't think he's ever built the boat. I'm not
picking on him, I think it was a neat idea and a very
original concept for its day, but I don't think it's a
workable design for a one design class; for one thing,
not only has he not built it, I'm not sure anyone has
built and sailed it as drawn. I really do like the
hull, though, I often say I wish I'd built a Bolger
style main hull for my 21' proa, rather than the
tortured 1/8" plywood and glass hull I did build. The
Bolger hull would have been easier and cheaper to
build, shallower draft, likely just as fast in most
conditions, and much tougher when I hit something, as
I am wont to do.
The idea of timed races on various bodies of water is
a great one. I'd still like someone locally to race
in person, though!
best
K O'N
--- graeme19121984 <graeme19121984@...>
wrote:
> --- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "k_s_oneill"
> <K_S_ONeill@...> wrote:
>
> > If we got such a fleet up and racing it would be
> of
> > interest to proa sailors around the world. I
> think it would be
> > interesting.
>
> I think it would be interesting too :-)
>
> Are you sure Bolger hasn't got the bugs out of the
> Minimum 20' Proa?
>
> If he's offering the plans, and I believe he is,
> then it may be an
> upgraded version of that in Boats With An Open Mind.
>
>
> What is the plan price, do you know?
>
> Kevin, you could have international races/regattas
> conducted on the
> same day all over the planet something like they
> have worked out for
> the international, and intranational Puddle Duck
> Racer fleets.
> Seriously, that might fly. I'd be in on it.
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
> Bolger rules!!!
> - NO "GO AWAY SPAMMER!" posts!!! Please!
> - no cursing, flaming, trolling, spamming,
> respamming, or flogging dead horses
> - stay on topic, stay on thread, punctuate, no 'Ed,
> thanks, Fred' posts
> - Pls add your comments at the TOP, SIGN your posts,
> and snip away
> - Plans: Mr. Philip C. Bolger, P.O. Box 1209,
> Gloucester, MA, 01930, Fax: (978) 282-1349
> - Unsubscribe:bolger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> - Open discussion:
>bolger_coffee_lounge-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
--- Inbolger@yahoogroups.com, "k_s_oneill" <K_S_ONeill@...> wrote:
Are you sure Bolger hasn't got the bugs out of the Minimum 20' Proa?
If he's offering the plans, and I believe he is, then it may be an
upgraded version of that in Boats With An Open Mind.
What is the plan price, do you know?
Kevin, you could have international races/regattas conducted on the
same day all over the planet something like they have worked out for
the international, and intranational Puddle Duck Racer fleets.
Seriously, that might fly. I'd be in on it.
Graeme
> If we got such a fleet up and racing it would be ofI think it would be interesting too :-)
> interest to proa sailors around the world. I think it would be
> interesting.
Are you sure Bolger hasn't got the bugs out of the Minimum 20' Proa?
If he's offering the plans, and I believe he is, then it may be an
upgraded version of that in Boats With An Open Mind.
What is the plan price, do you know?
Kevin, you could have international races/regattas conducted on the
same day all over the planet something like they have worked out for
the international, and intranational Puddle Duck Racer fleets.
Seriously, that might fly. I'd be in on it.
Graeme
Hi
I'm a proa sailor in the Lake Jackson, Texas area who once upon a time
sailed Sunfish, C-15s and Hobie 16s and who's missing one design
racing. I'd like to find a few people who would like to settle on a
simple one design beach proa we could race off Surfside beach every
other weekend or so. I hope we'll settle on something like a plywood
version of one of Gary Dierking's boats:
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/
or the Bolger 20' proa:
http://www.proafile.com/images/design/bolger.gif
(though perhaps that rig didn't turn out to be as well behaved as he'd
hoped for)
or the Michalek proa Gizmo:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/gizmo/index.htm
but with some considerations for our launching through small surf; a
fully decked and sealed main hull, for example. I've corresponded
with Gary for a few years now on the proa_file yahoo group and he's
agreed to look over our drawings before we start cutting any plywood,
so I think we'd have a capable and interesting boat to play with. A
boat like this in sheet plywood would be fast and easy to build, and
would be very fast indeed on the water for the amount of money we'd spend.
We'd also be getting good at sailing a type of boat that literally no
one in the world but these guys:
http://www.pacificmagazine.net/issue/2001/05/01/canoe-craze-in-marshall-islands
are racing. If we got such a fleet up and racing it would be of
interest to proa sailors around the world. I think it would be
interesting.
If you're in the area and would like to discuss the idea, email me off
list.
thanks,
Kevin O'Neill
I'm a proa sailor in the Lake Jackson, Texas area who once upon a time
sailed Sunfish, C-15s and Hobie 16s and who's missing one design
racing. I'd like to find a few people who would like to settle on a
simple one design beach proa we could race off Surfside beach every
other weekend or so. I hope we'll settle on something like a plywood
version of one of Gary Dierking's boats:
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/
or the Bolger 20' proa:
http://www.proafile.com/images/design/bolger.gif
(though perhaps that rig didn't turn out to be as well behaved as he'd
hoped for)
or the Michalek proa Gizmo:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/gizmo/index.htm
but with some considerations for our launching through small surf; a
fully decked and sealed main hull, for example. I've corresponded
with Gary for a few years now on the proa_file yahoo group and he's
agreed to look over our drawings before we start cutting any plywood,
so I think we'd have a capable and interesting boat to play with. A
boat like this in sheet plywood would be fast and easy to build, and
would be very fast indeed on the water for the amount of money we'd spend.
We'd also be getting good at sailing a type of boat that literally no
one in the world but these guys:
http://www.pacificmagazine.net/issue/2001/05/01/canoe-craze-in-marshall-islands
are racing. If we got such a fleet up and racing it would be of
interest to proa sailors around the world. I think it would be
interesting.
If you're in the area and would like to discuss the idea, email me off
list.
thanks,
Kevin O'Neill